S05.E11: Swan Song

[Panopticon]

I very much want to meet the current heir to the tavern chain fortune, and know who s/he is in Storybrooke. 

[tennisgurl]

I also felt some serious second hand embarrassment for Dark Swan falling for that HookHenry trick to get Excalibur. I expected him to turn into Dark Helmet and hear "Foooled youuuuuu" in the background. Come on Emma. This isn't your first day.  

[fuzzysneakers]

"Gina, Bobby..." Oh, Zelena...You just keep doin' you gurl.

[Watt]

I could seriously get into Colin as Darcy. 

[Blue Plastic]

I liked the dramatic sacrificial stabbing scene with Emma and Hook, but I had to suspend disbelief and put aside my irritation with the rest of the writing of the show to achieve even that.  It's really hard to get into the story and "believe" it when it's all so messed up.

 

Hook's actions since becoming a DO have been too obviously in service of the plot with no thought given to character development at all.  Once he remembered what happened in Camelot, he immediately swerved to 100% evil, and now in this episode after carrying out all the steps of his evil plan he suddenly swerved back to good and realized that he should sacrifice himself.  It didn't feel like what a real person would do at all.

 

Belle seems to have some kind of radar that draws her to Rumple when he is evil and repels her when he is good!  Granted she doesn't know he got his mojo back, but it's interesting how she came back to him right then.

 

Totally not getting why exactly Hook needed to be stabbed, why the darkness wouldn't then transfer to Emma, why it was supposed to dissipate entirely but somehow Rumple used a random potion to get it to transfer to him, etc.  Whatever, show!

 

I had almost forgotten what Emma looked like without the black pleather and white hair, LOL.  That whole thing was a waste of time because she didn't even do anything all that dastardly.  She was like a slightly more secretive but otherwise normal Emma basically.

[Shanna Marie]

As creepy as it is that the whole gang is perfectly willing to keep Belle in the dark about Rumple's current Dark One status, at the same time, what would the point really be in telling her? About 98 percent of the time she's known him, he's been the Dark One, and it hasn't really bothered her all that much. Would it really change anything this time, or would she cling to the fact that he "selflessly" sent her out of town to protect her and disregard him choosing to be the Dark One again? Having known people who stay in toxic, off-and-on relationships, I've learned that it does no good and sometimes even does harm to let them know about their loved ones' bad deeds because instead of it opening their eyes to the situation, it makes them defensive. So while I believe that Belle deserves to know, I'm not sure that telling her right now would make much difference to her. It's the kind of thing she'll have to see for herself. Maybe when/if Hook comes back, he can be the one to let her know that her "good-hearted" husband negated his valiant sacrifice.

 

I'm also rather uncomfortable with Regina sending Zelena away the way she did. Was that supposed to be a "you go, girl!" moment, or were we supposed to be concerned about that? I'd lean toward concerned, considering she used the wand that at the beginning of the season required a dash of darkness to use, but then they retconned it into requiring her to believe in herself.

[october]

I've been walking on air for the past twelve hours or so. Why? Because I still ship Captain Swan. This episode didn't obliterate my love for them. Wahoo! \o/

 

It was still a rough episode full of issues and clunky dialogue. I think the writers wasted this half-season's premise, but the performances saved enough of it for me that I'm not jumping ship (yet). Special kudos to Jennifer and Colin as usual, and the actors who played Papa Jones and baby!Killian. As for more specific thoughts, I'll start with my (many) complaints (to reiterate, I didn't dislike the episode, but it had so many unnecessary flaws!):

 

Regina. What can I even say about you at this point? She hasn't been too bad so far this season compared to 4A (not that that's saying much). But her inclusion in Killian's back story was utterly absurd. Remove her and you lose nothing. Killian could easily have wandered into a tavern one day and seen his dad serving drinks. Maybe his father has fallen on hard times and is outrunning debtors, so Killian offers to get him a boarding pass to escape and start over. The rest of the flashback plays out the same way. Boom. No need for Regina. It made no sense that she'd need to test a man who hours earlier had knocked out and planned to kill an innocent woman. As for the present day stuff, why not have Killian be reminded of his past by Nimue (a character sadly underused this episode despite her dramatic entrance last episode)? She could tell him that the DO is the kind of man he was always meant to be and then he snaps out of his trance. That way Killian saves himself instead of having the moral of the story rubbed in his face by Regina Mills of all people. But no. We couldn't have that because Regina simply had to be shoe horned in even if it made no sense and meant retconning an older episode.

 

While I'm on the subject of Regina, I noticed she yet again, in response to being reminded of all her victims, spoke about 'not being that person any more'. It's all about her, as usual. She doesn't care who she hurt, she just doesn't want to be called out. No, Regina is no longer 'evil' and she has changed. But that doesn't make her good by any stretch. I'd be okay with that if the show acknowledged it but... well...

 

I don't blame Regina for wanting to keep Zelena away from the baby considering the latter's plans for her. But why send Zelena to Oz when it's easier than ever to cross realms? She'll be back and soon probably.

 

Speaking of shitty parents, Daddy Jones sold his kids? Not to defend him (because, wow!) but perhaps he told himself that this way at least they'd have work, a roof over their heads, and food. But still, they were orphans and some one else's property! This explains why Killian fell from grace the way he did when Liam died. They'd been through so much together, worked their up to the navy, and dreamed of being heroes. While I don't want them to over-do it like they have with Regina, I'd love to know more about Killian and Liam's early lives.

 

Hook killing his father was expected in my opinion. As in Poor Unfortunate Soul and The Jolly Roger he started out with better intentions but let his rage take the wheel in the final moments, hurting innocents (in this case his young half brother) along the way. If Regina had been in his place she probably would've killed her estranged parent, her half-sibling, their cat, and then burned down the entire village.

 

I stand by everything I said in the previous episode thread about how lacklustre the Dark Swan was (she was so easy for Killian to fool with that Henry disguise, holy shit) and what a mistake I think it was to shut us out of Hook's mind so he could be all 'muh ha ha evil!!!' At first I wondered if Team Plan were on to something and we were distanced from Hook so the show could surprise us with a twist. But nope. It was a mistake IMO. We should've seen Hook's inner battle being waged, especially to explain why, even in the grip of extreme anger and darkness, he'd want to hurt Emma like this. Colin does a great job, but we needed so much more from the writers.

 

Emma learned last episode that she shouldn't try to do everything alone, but then this episode she's keeping secrets from her family and planning to go it alone? I mean... I get why, but it was such a waste of time. We knew her family would catch up to her and everyone would stand around in a group uselessly while two or three characters actually had a role in stopping the Big Bad. Why waste time on this saggy, tired formula? I also still don't understand why Killian needed to cast the dark curse (on a practical level I mean. On a meta level I know it's because TS;TW). He has crossed realms multiple times and if not for Snow and that candle he would've succeeded in killing Rumple in S2. He doesn't need the Dark Ones. The magic and immortality sure helps, but he didn't need to make any deals with them.

 

Rumple is a scum bag. I knew it already and so did Killian (seriously, I want 'Killian Jones was right!' on Rumple's eventual tomb stone) but it's nice to see it acknowledged on screen. I knew his hero act was just that: an act. He's still the man he always was and to see Belle come running back to him for the most boneheaded of reasons was simply excruciating.

 

On the positive side though, Emma not wanting to let go of Killian's hand was incredible. That was the right-in-the-feels moment that got to me. I also agree she should've said something like 'I'll bring you home Killian'. However, her saying she'd always find him was like her finally buying into her family's motto IMO. I'll accept that. I really hope the heart-splitting thing isn't what they're going to go with though. Charming and Snow should keep that.

 

Overall I think the arc has been terribly mishandled. Besides the beautiful Captain Swan moments we got, the Dark Swan storyline was a disappointment, there were too many characters crammed into too few episodes, time was wasted with pointless subplots, the show failed to follow through on Snow and Charming's role as Emma's parents, the finale 'battle' was flaccid and uninteresting, and multiple core plots made no sense. So in many ways, it was your typical OUAT half-season.

 

I'll be tuning in in March, but I am getting tired of this show making the same mistakes over and over and over again.

Edited December 7, 2015 by october

[Curio]

It didn't feel like what a real person would do at all.

 

Well, in a way, Hook wasn't a real person as the Dark One. He was the Dark One. Emma was able to act like a slightly normal person because she's the savior and has a lot of light magic to offset the darkness, and Rumple doesn't change much of his personality because at his core he's actually a pretty dark and nasty person, but for a person like Hook, the Dark One basically morphed him into something inhuman. Temporarily.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Curio

[Mathius]

No, it's more like it morphed him into a darker version of who he used to be rather than who he was.

[Delphi]

I honestly don't care on way or the other that Regina sent Zelena away bank to Oz, it sucks for the residents of Oz but that's about it. They tried to keep Zelena included but she went straight to kidnapping talk and wanting to raise a child evil. If there was a good chance I was about to die I wouldn't want a little girl being left with a mentally imbalanced witch with green dreams of evil.

[Bishop]

I thought the last three episodes and much of this Dark arc has been excellent.  Yeah, there are plot holes and some boring midsections, but I think the stuff with Dark Ones, Hook and Emma, have been very good.  

 

Regarding the Buffy references, let's face it, mystical shows are going to borrow from each other.  I've seen stuff in all the shows that take from other shows, and as long as it's executed in a dramatic fashion that is good for the audience, I'm okay with it.  Emma wanting to resurrect Hook because she loves him sure sounds like something the Winchesters would do.  Stuff in supernatural shows are similar, but I still loved Hook making that ultimate sacrifice.

 

I don't agree that Hook's sacrifice was pointless or that he died for nothing.  How so?  Because of Hook's actions, none of Emma's family or her friends were swapped with the Dark Ones that were there to take their places.  It also stripped the darkness from Emma and returned her to former state.  I don't see that as a pointless sacrifice.  Did he vanquish the darkness for good?  No, but his only real objective was saving and protecting Emma and her family and the others in Storybrooke, and he accomplished that mission.

 

As for Hook's turn to darkness was too sudden or that he should have known he was a dark one, it's been shown before that spells and magic DO have an effect even on those who are evil - as log as they are not the one's bringing about the curse.  Hook didn't know he was a Dark One because his memories were erased, but the reason he turned quickly was because he has a very dark past - including the fact that he was capable of killing his own father.  That's a pretty big deal, although a father selling his sons into slavery to save himself is pretty twisted.  So that darkness was still inside Hook, the things he's done.  So when he got his memories back, that darkness also flooded back into him.  At first he could fight it because he thought that Emma believed in him, but when he found out that she lied to him about having Excalibur, he realized that she didn't trust him, and that shifted everything.  Without her faith in him, he felt no need to fight and just gave into his darkest desires - revenge.  I didn't think it came out of nowhere, and I thought last week's episode (which was also very good) really helped explain why Hook embraced the darkness.  Even so, he never stopped loving Emma, and when push came to shove, he opted in the end to save her because watching her in so much pain was too much for him.  He said several times in the episode that he couldn't let her die or take her family.

 

Some have asked why the rest of the characters went with Emma, and frankly, I loved that part.  Considering how many times Hook has helped them and put himself on the line for Emma and her family, they owe him.  He came back with the magic bean to take them to Neverland to save Henry.  He sold the Jolly Roger to get back to Emma because her family was in danger.  He also went after her when she was pulled into that time warp and was thrust back in time.  When she was turned into the Dark One, he went after her again to save her.  So I think the others - all of them - owed Hook, and I would love to see his expression when he realizes that all of them, including Henry and Regina, came back to get him.  I'm not in the camp that feels that Henry should be left behind.  He's not really a kid anymore.  He's seen enough and been through enough, and he's the Author too.  So I'm okay with it.

 

The boring parts for me involved Regina and her sister, Zelena.  I have no idea what point Zelena serves to the overall arc of these episodes or Storybrooke in general, and I'm glad she's gone.  Some of her snark was funny, but overall, she wasted airtime.  I also agree with those who feel that Regina doesn't need to be the person who has to "fix" everything.  I get tired of her preaching and putting people down, but since Hook is 300 years old (I believe), it would make sense that Regina would know things about him that the others wouldn't.  She's lived a long time too.  As for Gold, his return to Dark One status IS getting redundant, but Bob Carlyle is at his best as evil rather than good, but I see a permanent death in his future at some point.  There is only so many times he can betray Belle and the people of Storybrooke before he has to go.  

 

Lastly, I give big kudos to Colin and Jennifer.  I was never a ginormous Captain Swan shipper.  I certainly liked them and felt they had chemistry, but what really sold me last night was that there is real drama and passion with those two characters.  The last three episodes had them really fighting with each other and against themselves.  I don't see that kind of passion and commitment with the other characters.  I still like Charming and Snow, but they are a bit preachy now for my taste and a bit stagnant, but I still like them.  I find Regina and Robin and Belle and Rumple incredibly boring.  Colin and Jennifer really sold their performance last night, and even the critics are raving about the drama of this last episode.  You need that in a couple, and like it or not, Hook and Emma are that couple.  I want a happy ending for them eventually.  Heck, I feel like they've been "dating" the longest, and they still haven't spent a night together.  All the others have.  It's been a long road for that pair.

 

So overall, I think it was a great story arc, great performances, and I'm looking forward to March.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Bishop

[Bishop]

I would feel better about it if I thought Hook actually needed the other Dark Ones to get his revenge on Rumple. He didn't need them. This is where the collateral damage explanation fails and where the plot fails. He made a deal with them to get out of Camelot but he could have gotten back to Storybrooke with Merlin's wand. No curse necessary. He didn't need to send Rumple to hell to get his revenge, and I'm frankly surprised by his lack of imagination in this regard, so there was no need to resurrect the Dark Ones at all. 

This was explained in the episode.  All Dark Ones WANT to be resurrected.  When Emma asked Hook what he was doing, Nimue told her that he was doing what they all wanted, including Emma, which was to resurrect the Dark Ones.  It was something inherent in all them - they wanted to come back, and Emma didn't deny it.  So in order to bring them back, others had to take their place.  This was the reason for Hook bringing back the Dark Ones and sending them to the Underworld.  It served two purposes:  1) his revenge on Rumple; and 2) fulfilling the wishes that all Dark Ones have, which is to return.  

 

Emma was able to fight the darkness in her because of Killian's love for her and hers for him and the love of her family.  Hook, in the end, was able to fight the darkness because he couldn't watch Emma suffer, and because he loved her.  So he made the ultimate sacrifice to save her, her family, and the town.

 

I do agree with those who are mad that Rumple has regressed again, but Hook basically had his number.  He craves the power more than anything else in his life, and he's proven it now to be true.  Besides, I don't know what Rumple would do as the "good" guy since Regina is also good now too.  You need villains, but I do feel sorry for Belle.  Then again, they have become really boring.  So I'm not invested in their story anymore, but that's just me.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Bishop

[RadioGirl27]

I've been travelling all day so I haven't seen the episode until now, and I'm not sure if I like it or not. There were some good moments, like all the Emma/Hook scenes, together or not. But there were some terrible moments, like Regina being the one talking to Hook or the "twist" with Rumple at the end. That twist is particularly infuriating, because it means that A&E have messed with Hook's redemption for nothing.

 

The kid playing young Killian was amazing and so was the guy playing his father. Colin and Jennifer were, once again, superb. But Lana gave me secondhand embarrassment, espcially in the flashback. That was terrible. 

 

Belle has so little self-respect, it's ridiculous. Everyting about Rumbelle is gross.

 

Maybe I'll have to sleep on this episode. I found it better than 4x11, at least.

That wasn't difficult. But I don't think this episode gave us the promised pay-off.

 

I was kinda creeped out that Gold slept with his wife after becoming the DARKEST DARK to ever Dark. But, there comes a point, when you have to give up hope for a character. It's her fate in life to constantly be deceived by the Dark One. 

 

Hey--maybe when Rumple comes back from Hell, Belle will have a baby, and they'll name him Baelfire. Just like Liam 2.0.

The idea of Rumple and Belle having a baby is so gross, for so many reasons.

 

You know, if I were them, the first thing I'd do after getting back from the Underworld?  

 

Figure out how to get Rumple to the town line and push him over.  

If I was Emma, I would trade him for Hook, and I would leave him in the UW.

 

- I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate that Emma (& Hook too) suffered immeasurably for nothing. Fuck this show's hope mantra. I despise you forever for this.

Yup, this. So much this.

[Mari]

If I was Emma, I would trade him for Hook, and I would leave him in the UW.

As long as Rumple is powerless there--since that seems to be his greatest love--that strikes me as a valid and worthy plan, as well.  But I can't see the characters as even remotely intelligent, if they're not trying to figure out how to contain or neutralize him.

[NeenerNeener]

Maybe all the Jones boys will be reunited in Hell.

 

Hi, I'm Killian. This is my brother Liam, and my other brother Liam.

 

(My apologies if this joke has already been made on one of the preceding 5 pages and I missed it).

Edited December 8, 2015 by NeenerNeener

[Bishop]

I've been travelling all day so I haven't seen the episode until now, and I'm not sure if I like it or not. There were some good moments, like all the Emma/Hook scenes, together or not. But there were some terrible moments, like Regina being the one talking to Hook or the "twist" with Rumple at the end. That twist is particularly infuriating, because it means that A&E have messed with Hook's redemption for nothing.

How so?  How was Hook's redemption messed with?  What he did he did out of love, and he DID save Emma and her family.  His redemption was real.  The only thing that Hook was unable to do was permanently vanquish the darkness, but he did vanquish it from Emma.  I think that's a big deal.

 

Also, what helps regarding Rumple for me is that his words to Belle, according to the writers, were genuine.  He genuinely wanted her to find a better life and be happy.  He was expecting to die and be taken with the others, but when Emma presented him with a moment to save himself, he took it.  Initially, I thought Rumple had been betraying Belle all along, but that's not what the writers said.  They said that he only turned back to darkness when he thought Belle was gone for good.  So that helps me a little bit.  Of course, once Gold tasted the power again, he didn't want to give it up.  When I first watched the episode, I thought Rumple was scheming from the very beginning and lying to Belle the entire time.  That isn't the case.  When he sent her away, everything he said and did up to that moment was genuine, and he was simply afraid of dying with the rest of Storybrooke.  So when he had the opportunity to save himself and also get power back (with Belle no longer in his life), he took it.  He wasn't expecting her to come back.  I am curious to see how Hook eventually reacts to the news.  He has hated Rumple for centuries, and now he'll find out that Gold managed to save the darkness for himself while Hook sacrificed himself.  I actually like when Colin and Robert have scenes together.  Unlike Regina and Emma, Hook and Rumple still hate each other and that adds a much needed layer of drama with regard to a villain in Storybrooke.  Regina isn't really one anymore, imo.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Bishop

[Rumsy4]

Remember when we wondered if Rumple was going to the UW with the others out of obligation to Hook for taking his place/sparing him? We should have realized he was merely back to being a straight-up assh*le.

[YaddaYadda]

That twist is particularly infuriating, because it means that A&E have messed with Hook's redemption for nothing.

 

No, they didn't.

 

They showed that he actually is much stronger than he thought he was. When push came to shove, he proved that his revenge really wasn't as important as Emma, or her family. 

 

He's always believed himself weak. He gave into the darkness because his choices were taken from him, and now we know why Emma's agency has always been so important to him, that she be able to make her own choices.

 

His redemption arc is pretty intact. It has not been destroyed because he showed that he didn't wanna be the Dark One, or become the thing he hated the most. He punched back, he snapped out of it, and he chose to be the man he has been working so hard to being.

 

He didn't blame the darkness on the things he did. He blamed his weakness, his lack of strength for what happened, and he said that he deserved to go to the Underworld. Even before the darkness was taken out of him, he was completely self-aware.

 

So I'm gonna go ahead, and disagree with you that his redemption arc has been destroyed. I think he's a much better character having been able to snap out of the darkness, and come back to the person he was.

[Randomosity]

So basically the same people that were marked for the undeworld and then saved  by Hook are now going there voluntarily.   Regina makes a big show of saving the baby from Zelena by sending her to Oz and then waltzes off with Robin to the Underworld leaving the kids with the Fairies.  Yeah, that makes sense.  At least it makes somewhat sense that Snow, Charming, Regina and Robin would go because they can fight, but Henry is pretty much useless.

 

If the fairies is where orphans end up, maybe Roland, Nealflake, and Green Bean meet up with Liam part deux there.

 

Also, how many times is killian going to die on this show? He's turning into Kenny from South Park. Colin is great and has played all the deaths differently which is awesome. But really. I'm over him dying. And dying. And dying.

 

Oh my god, they kenned Killy!

 

Did I hear correctly and Hook's Mom was also traded into slavery? I'm thinking that didn't end well for her. 

 

Really? If so, I totally missed that. And the boys being with their father on a ship made me question what happened to Mama Hook right away, so if they did mention something, I'm surprised I didn't latch onto it. Has anything ever been said about her before this episode?

 

I would love to find out that Brennan Jones actually had dozens of little Liams and Killians scattered all over the world.  To paraphrase Fight Club, setting up franchises. Every few years he finds a new woman, sires a kid or kids, gives them the same name, and moves on. Now I'm imagining Hook opening up his front door to be confronted by 345 Liams and 257 Killians. 

 

Don't forget about the roughly 600 daughters that would have also popped up. All named Lillian.

[spritz]

I do agree with those who are mad that Rumple has regressed again, but Hook basically had his number.  He craves the power more than anything else in his life, and he's proven it now to be true.  Besides, I don't know what Rumple would do as the "good" guy since Regina is also good now too.  You need villains, but I do feel sorry for Belle.  Then again, they have become really boring.  So I'm not invested in their story anymore, but that's just me.

 

 

I am happy that Gold is back to his usual self again. Gold/Rumple is a character that you love to hate. When he wasn't the Dark One, Gold was just plain boring. I was tired of watching a gimpy pathetic old man. Besides, Robert Carlyle acts sinister very well.

[Guest]

Hook's actions since becoming a DO have been too obviously in service of the plot with no thought given to character development at all.  Once he remembered what happened in Camelot, he immediately swerved to 100% evil, and now in this episode after carrying out all the steps of his evil plan he suddenly swerved back to good and realized that he should sacrifice himself.  It didn't feel like what a real person would do at all.

 

I was bothered that I couldn't put my finger on exactly what Hook's motivations were or how his plan was supposed to accomplish it.  I was going to go enumerate the ways in which I don't understand exactly who he is seeking revenge against (why is the whole cast except Emma marked) and what his reasons are (I no longer buy Milah as motivation) and why he's getting so elaborate (why do all the DO need to return when Hook could just kill everyone) with it but its a novel and I really have no clue.

 

Something else I noticed on rewatch.  It looks like the DO curse healed the original Excalibur cut.  Rumple made a point of pointing out that he cut Hook again with Excalibur.  So I think despite manipulation of events that would have Emma stab him, I think Rumple wanted to be the one to kill Hook.

[YaddaYadda]

Rumple made a point of pointing out that he cut Hook again with Excalibur.

 

 

Did he? The episode is mostly a blur. Where was this?

 

the original wound from Excalibur reopened when Hook was no longer tethered to the sword because he wasn't the Dark One anymore, so whatever fix Emma did back in Camelot was gone.

Edited December 8, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Clawdette]

Echoing Hook75's plea to have Spike in the underworld.  This would be so much win it would make the wait until March bearable.  When people get their first glimpse of him, they would be afraid DarkSwan has reformed.

[Shanna Marie]

Rumple made a point of pointing out that he cut Hook again with Excalibur.

He pointed out that he had the sword at Hook's throat, but I don't think Rumple actually touched him with it. Rumple was very proud of himself for letting him live to suffer. Though we know that the Dark One had the ability to poof away at any time or poof that sword out of his hand.

 

I was bothered that I couldn't put my finger on exactly what Hook's motivations were or how his plan was supposed to accomplish it.  I was going to go enumerate the ways in which I don't understand exactly who he is seeking revenge against (why is the whole cast except Emma marked) and what his reasons are (I no longer buy Milah as motivation) and why he's getting so elaborate (why do all the DO need to return when Hook could just kill everyone) with it but its a novel and I really have no clue.

I think Rumple was the only one Hook cared about. The rest were all collateral damage, and that was all Nimue's plot that Hook was going along with so he could get Rumple. It seems like Nimue was mostly in the driver's seat. They kept saying that Killian was dead, so it was like Hook himself just gave up and let go, so the Darkness was fully in charge. That may be somewhat like what would have happened if they hadn't sucked the Darkness out of Rumple before his heart gave out. The Darkness would have been totally in charge then, with no glimmer of humanity from Rumple, so that the Darkness could do what it wanted. I'd bet that the first move would have been opening that portal. But since Hook wasn't actually dead and was still somewhat in there, the Darkness just appeased him with the idea of revenge to keep him in line, but the rest of that was Nimue's scheme, with Hook as willing patsy until he snapped out of it and turned out to be perfectly capable of fighting it off once he actually bothered trying and quit listening to the other voices.

[Guest]

Did he? The episode is mostly a blur. Where was this?

 

the original wound from Excalibur reopened when Hook was no longer tethered to the sword because he wasn't the Dark One anymore, so whatever fix Emma did back in Camelot was gone.

 

That's what I thought the first time too.  But Rumple said this when Hook Rumple were talking in the woods before everyone got marked (right after the flashback where Killian's father trades him):

 

Hook: It would appear I've won.

Rumple:  Oh did you? Last time we fought this sword ended up in your neck.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I think the thing that made me laugh the hardest was Emma stealing her parents line like Hook/Emma aren't about that life. The writers need to start creating lines for them instead of taking ideas Snow and Charming.

Every time I hear Snow and Charming say, "I will always find you," I hear Westley telling Buttercup, "Hear this now. I will always come for you."

 

I'd love it if the Storybrook ("More like Storybroke, amiright?") folks were to run into Walt Himself in the Underworld. Then maybe he can break his cryogenically hardened foot off in their asses for wrecking fairtytales for eveyone.

 

"Once Upon A Time: Ruining every story you ever loved as a child, one screwed up unhappy non-ending at a time, since 2010."

Ha, at first I thought you meant Walt from Lost which would also be pretty awesome and hilarious.

 

the unnecessary wardrobe change for both of them (especially Hook who has never changed vests mid-adventure when time travel wasn't involved)

I can totally imagine Regina changing into another fabulous boobtastic outfit mid-adventure just for the fun of it (or because some dirty peasant might have brushed against it), but Hook? This is the man of two outfits!

 

Did he even tell her where he was going, or did he put her to sleep like he always does to avoid answering questions?

Considering that he snuck out to meet Emma at the shop, I wouldn't be surprised if he just walked down to the magical underworld portal without bothering to leave a note or tell her he was leaving. I mean, what would the note say anyway? "Gone to hell. Back soon."

[Rumsy4]

Rumple:  Oh did you? Last time we fought this sword ended up in your neck.

 

He didn't cut him though. Gold did not mean it literally.

 

Considering that he snuck out to meet Emma at the shop, I wouldn't be surprised if he just walked down to the magical underworld portal without bothering to leave a note or tell her he was leaving. I mean, what would the note say anyway? "Gone to hell. Back soon."

 

LMAO!

 

I guess Hook boast that he had taken the Dagger from Gold makes sense now. The writers were using it as foreshadowing about Gold becoming the Dark One again. But still, it was a clunky line.

[TwistedandBored]

I just realize that if you are not a shipper, there is nothing for you to enjoy. Every other storyline was just abandoned and main storyline stopped being about the character and became about a ship. You know, I think I am done for now. I will watch an episode I like here and there but I am done watching it weekly. 

[maryle]

I had so much conflicting emotion troughout this final!

, I loved the stellar acting from JMO and Colin!! (got teary at the sacrifice scene)

They delivered it in all their scenes. No, they definitely not just pretty face they both prove that they can act this season.

I will mention Robert. C too, he was so good this season as clippy Rumple.

I was OK with Hook killing his father in this scenario ( anger, lust for revenge...) Overwhelmed him in the heat of the moment.

I wished we had more little killy and I missed why his father sold them that particular night!

I was OK with Regina part of the resolution, but I will liked it better if for once Charming or Snow were the one to reach Killian.

I loved Regina more than the E.Q in the episode. I liked the fact it was both the fact that has been hurt and his own story that brought back Killian in hero mode.

But I kept thinking the plot, the acting is very good but the execution is too rushed and cliché because of A. and E. loves for cheap twist from the left field.

Should have been two episode where we see Killian struggling with the plan.

But I generally love the narrative of the arc, so much better than 4b!

About the Rumbelle situation I am speechless!!

They had officially passed soap opera frontier with OQ. I can't take them seriously anymore.

And Rumple should remain a or at least dark grey enouGH flip flopping.

[WatchrTina]

 

Every time I hear Snow and Charming say, "I will always find you," I hear Westley telling Buttercup, "Hear this now. I will always come for you."

I prefer the Daniel Day-Lewis as Hawkeye version from Last of the Mohicans:  "You stay alive no matter what occurs. I will find you . . . no matter how long it takes, no matter how far. I will find you."

 

I think this is my first time posting about "Once."  I'm just weighing in to say I'm glad they're going to get Hook because I was horrified by the possibility that Colin might be off the show.  He's my favorite now.  And I have to give Robert Carlyle props. They way he plays the two versions of his character -- the giggling "Crocodile" and the scheming Gold -- is really amazing.  I was a bit dismayed by the reset button that rendered my boy Killian's sacrifice meaningless but I wasn't really surprised.  I knew Gold was going back to the dark side somehow -- especially after Belle rejected him.  But the manner was a bit . . . lame.

 

This show is fun.  I don't think too hard about it.  It's a tasty cheeseburger, not haute cuisine, but I love a good cheeseburger.

[PixiePaws1]

If I was Emma, I would trade him for Hook, and I would leave him in the UW.

Yup, this. So much this.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this is Emma's actual plan...but Henry will probably wax lyrical about Grandpa and change her mind.

i suspect that Robert will leave at the end of 5 and Rumple will stay with Bae in the UW as a trade for Killian..but not willingly.

[KAOS Agent]

I spent over eight hours driving alone today across a mostly barren Utah, so I had plenty of time to think about whatever (you definitely want me to stay away from the continuity thread). I think the thing that hit me most about this episode was that it was mostly nonsense and was only relevant for the last couple of scenes. It's a lot like "Going Home" in that respect because that episode is very poorly paced and plotted, but the last few minutes at the town line are all anyone thinks about. This show is often about a few great scenes, but it's becoming more and more apparent that the writers are counting on them to carry the show. It's emotional manipulation at its worst and the connective links are breaking down more and more. So while I liked the Emma/Hook sacrifice scene and the Rumpel reveal, it's not enough to cover the blatant emotional manipulation the writers are using to cover their lack of clear plot or cleverness in creating "twists" and I find myself annoyed that I even fall for it. 

[chrisvee]

I think that's why the episode didn't tug at my emotions. Hook has died four times in the last yearish - the last time just a few episodes ago. They obviously retconned bits of Hook's past to darken up his history over the course of just a few episodes to bolster the crazed DO idea they'd conceived. The entire DO mythology took a hit. The Merlin mythology makes no sense.

The high points for me were when Emma rejected Nimue and when Hook 'died' from his Excalibur wound. They might have been more successful to have Hook die from that wound and come up with some other way to dedarken Emma, then just roll into the UW. Dunno. I think Dark Hook was fun to watch due to Colin's acting but not emotionally satisfying for me. I felt like Emma had suffered enough.

Edited December 8, 2015 by chrisvee

[Mrs OldManBalls]

Well, I've told this show to go to hell plenty of times...at least they're finally listening to their fans.

 

Also, until now I've been referring to Zelena's offspring as "Rapefruit" but I intend to call her Baby Pistachio from this point forward.  

LOL! I like Pistachio better too : )

[Camera One]

An alternative to the everyone-gets-a-free-cruise-to-Hell ending would have been if after Hook "dies", Emma's family and friends still get sent to Hell, and at the Lake, all we're left with are Emma and Rumple.  Emma breaks down in grief, but Merida helps her through it.  Then the next half-season will be Emma and Merida's Excellent Adventures in the Land of Country Bears, as we explore stories such as Goldilocks and the three bears.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

...This show is often about a few great scenes, but it's becoming more and more apparent that the writers are counting on them to carry the show. It's emotional manipulation at its worst and the connective links are breaking down more and more. ... it's not enough to cover the blatant emotional manipulation the writers are using to cover their lack of clear plot or cleverness in creating "twists" and I find myself annoyed that I even fall for it. 

 

You are only dupe if you don't know you are being conned. Or something like that. ;-) 

 

Then the next half-season will be Emma and Merida's Excellent Adventures in the Land of Country Bears, as we explore stories such as Goldilocks and the three bears.

 

Seriously, that would be the day I quit the show for good. haha

[Mitch]

Okay, was it just me, and while I never pay attention to Belle and Rumpel (and yeccch, we have to see they are doing the dirty, yea, I know they are married but please show spare us any info on Rump's sex life...) but I couldnt get over Belle leaving town to ..do what? How could she get a job...she doesn't exist in this world, does she even have a social security number?Does she have a debit card??What happens when Rump's gas guzzler runs our of gas? Do appreciate that we see that Rump is a d*ck and that is that, no change for him. They really took the magic excuse to extreme as Rump had both a way for Belle to leave town and managed to have a magic ointment thingie which trapped the darkness, with no explanation at all.

 

The rest, nice to see the Evil Queen, I can take her in small doses and as long as we don't get a rehash of "Snow vs. EQ." and Parilla downplayed her a bit. I enjoyed that the test was to see if he could kill his own father before he kiiled her mother. Laughed at yet another shot of the heroes...just walking around town expecting the Big Bad to drop in their laps and did not understand why they took Henry to Hell? I do appreciate that Regina knows how to dress, even to go to Hades..."Lets see where did I put my black feathered boa scarf..that would be just the thing...")

 

My fave line was "Oh, the old man's withered stub???" Show, with lines like that despite the stupidity I have to love you! Zelena, keep being crazy and see you in the next half of the season..Really Regina do you think that will keep her in Oz, and is anyone worrried about the Oz ites now that their big bad is back?

 

Storybrooke Hell (and no, I don't mean scenes with Merida)  next half looks good, don't screw it up show. Love to see Cora as Mayor of Hell!

Edited December 8, 2015 by Mitch

[MedievalGirl]

Hook: It would appear I've won.

Rumple:  Oh did you? Last time we fought this sword ended up in your neck.

 

It sounded like Rumple said "in your neck" but closed captioning said "at your neck."which makes a bit more sense. 

[Daisy]

I have to say, after sitting on this for a while. I am upset with how this ended, because it was stupid. And I think they had a lot of promise. 

 

You had Emma as the Dark Swan. But she wasn't really the Dark, Evil, Swan. She was just talking with a deeper voice, stole everyone's memories, turned Killian (because she didn't want to lose him. so okay, bad), and then was going to kill evil bad Zelena. (Which. imo - goes right in the whole Snow killed Cora plot: when someone is a threat to your life. (Which Zelena is). killing two birds with one stone would be for the greater good. I would have rather Emma deal with that (actually planning/plotting to kill someone, even though again, it was justifiable). 

 

I don't remember - but did they talk at ALL about why she was able to be balanced? There was always this threat about her being evul and light corrupts dark - but it just seemed that she was "balanced"

 

You had the Brave Storyline. (which was totally unneeded and unnecessary.) Which barely if ever really impacted the storyline they were really going to touch upon which was of course the Merlin Storyline. 

 

Which - okay. Arthur was a whiny baby, who felt lied to, and had to magic-dust himself Camelot and make people think he was really the king, but he wasn't because the sword was broken, but unless i missed something, it didn't really matter, it just mattered to Arthur, and we never addressed the fact that Camelot was in fact magic dusted, OR GUINEVERE for that matter. It's like it just.... dropped suddenly - to make Hook the dark one

 

Why was Nimue (the Original Dark one) the key to fix everything. it looked like to me that all Nimue was good for was to egg Emma (and then Killian on)

Why did the Dark Ones want to come back to life? Like. I remember the one that Rumple killed. it sure sounded like he wanted it to be over. 

 

What was specifically the revenge that Killian wanted? to Hurt Emma? Then why was her suffering the reason to make her be all sacrificy?

How on earth did Rumple become the dark one? Like. what was the magic? what if Emma didn't sacrifice Killian?

 

There are way too many questions, and it just seemed really slapped together. and I would argue this would be the perfect time to bring along the Olympian gods, and do a Hercules etc, storyline, but why bother? 

With all of this -it really felt to me they were doing the Becoming ending with the sacrifice. And even if they weren't. I didn't feel it. And it's not even because I don't like Emma +  Killian and I don't buy they are true love (no matter the whole "I'll always find you" line at the end). there was no build up to the ultimate sacrifice. it was just like "oh... emma's hurt, take me instead." meehhh. 

 

I won't quit the show, but i'm not as invested in this anymore. 

[Shanna Marie]

In the category of "they do realize what they're saying, don't they?" I found it interesting that Regina was so wary of how manipulative and duplicitous her mother is that she felt the need to test the mettle of a ruthless pirate who'd survived a century squaring off against Pan in Neverland before she was sure he was up to facing Cora. And yet she felt totally justified in killing her father to enact a curse to punish Snow for being manipulated by Cora as a child.

 

The thing she really needed to test Hook on was whether he'd flip the moment he was threatened or got a better offer. He may have killed his father in this test, but that meant he actually failed the real test, which was whether he'd put his revenge first. He did, which meant that if Cora offered him a better way to get his revenge, he'd turn. And he did.

 

Really, the only way the whole test with Hook's father makes any sense, both in the context in which we saw it and in terms of character and continuity, as well as story logic, etc., is if we're missing the scene where Hook snaps out of a fog in Regina's castle during that scene we saw before in which she gave him the assignment to go to Cora and then threw the hat on the ground to open the portal, and we learn that the whole thing took place in his head. That covers the wardrobe changes and the scene continuity. It also explains how she understood just what was going on in his head in order to talk him down later, if her spell was pulling things out of his memory. It means we don't have to stretch logic to understand how a woman who'd never met a man could have enough true love for him to wake him from a sleeping curse. The spell just created a story Hook could believe while under the spell to put him up against something that would divide his loyalties, and then threw in the emotional manipulation in the "I've changed!" story and the revelation of the child, which sounds like the kind of thing Cora would say. And then that would explain why even reformed Hook doesn't seem to have given a moment's thought to his baby half-brother when he's always been so desperate to build some kind of family around himself. Hook's still on the hook for killing his father because he thought it was real and meant to do it, and that's going to haunt him.

 

If it was really meant to be real, then it's a case of "You do read this stuff before you shoot it, right? And some of you have actually watched the older episodes, especially before you revisit that time period again?"

[juice318]

When Emma and Hook kissed before the sacrifice, in theory shouldn't that have been enough to get rid of the darkness? The fact that Emma is planning on sharing a heart with him means she sees him as her true love, no? And both of them wanted to be rid of the darkness at that point, so it's not like one of them was holding back. I mean, I can fanwank reasons, but I wish the writers would give us something, other than the obvious "we wanted to take the show to the underworld and needed an excuse". They could have just made them not kiss.

Yes, whatever happened to TLK? 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

True love's kiss only works when it's convenient for the writers!

[juice318]

"...but somehow Rumple used a random potion to get it to transfer to him, etc.  Whatever, show!" 

Yes. If Robert Carlyle ever leaves the show, I'm done; however, that was one of the stupidest plot excuses. Ever.

 

"I had almost forgotten what Emma looked like without the black pleather and white hair, LOL.  That whole thing was a waste of time because she didn't even do anything all that dastardly.  She was like a slightly more secretive but otherwise normal Emma basically."

Kind of like a second adolescence, except this time her parents were along for the adventure.

[YaddaYadda]

Kind of like a second adolescence, except this time her parents were along for the adventure.

No, not really.

[InsertWordHere]

In the category of "they do realize what they're saying, don't they?" I found it interesting that Regina was so wary of how manipulative and duplicitous her mother is that she felt the need to test the mettle of a ruthless pirate who'd survived a century squaring off against Pan in Neverland before she was sure he was up to facing Cora.

And Regina herself totally fell for Cora's manipulations the second Cora got to Storybrooke. 

[Zuleikha]

And yet she felt totally justified in killing her father to enact a curse to punish Snow for being manipulated by Cora as a child.

The show has never portrayed Regina's vendetta against Snow as some kind of logical, justified in a court of law thing. Snow was symbolic of the moment that Regina lost all hope of ever having happiness in her life. Any time Regina though of just trying to move on with her life, Rumple was around to refocus her into thinking of tormenting Snow instead. 

[PixiePaws1]

Adam tweeted a script piece where Snowing, Regina and Henry say they're coming with her to get Hook

https://mobile.twitter.com/OUATSpoilers/status/674464382122745856/photo/1

[Bishop]

Thanks for the deleted script piece.  I would have preferred that they were doing it also because Hook just gave up his life to save their asses since Emma would have survived and not been taken to the Underworld, only her family and the others would have been taken.  I would like to hear Regina, Snow, and/or Charming say something nice about Hook.  Imo, he has sacrificed and done more for Emma than she for him, and so I was very happy to see her go back for him.  It's the first time she's gone to get him while he has gone after her a number of times to protect her and her family.  Baby steps, I guess.

[Mitch]

Thanks for the deleted script piece.  I would have preferred that they were doing it also because Hook just gave up his life to save their asses since Emma would have survived and not been taken to the Underworld, only her family and the others would have been taken.  I would like to hear Regina, Snow, and/or Charming say something nice about Hook.  Imo, he has sacrificed and done more for Emma than she for him, and so I was very happy to see her go back for him.  It's the first time she's gone to get him while he has gone after her a number of times to protect her and her family.  Baby steps, I guess.

Well actually since Hook wanted their souls to be dragged into eternal Hell, I think its pretty nice that they are going along as is...(kind of like Regina stopping the doomsday diamond thingie, uh, you started it all...)

 

Anyway, they refuse to allow Henry to grow up and stop being annoying.  So what if your the "author," (who gives a flying crapolla) and you think your a hero, go to school and start hanging around kids your own age.  Now that "Coral," on the Walking Dead is allowed to act his age Henry is the most annoying kid on TV1

[Shanna Marie]

Well actually since Hook wanted their souls to be dragged into eternal Hell, I think its pretty nice that they are going along as is...(kind of like Regina stopping the doomsday diamond thingie, uh, you started it all...)

There is some difference there because Regina was just being Regina when she planned to kill everyone in town so she could have Henry to herself and only changed her mind when her failsafe device was hijacked so that she was caught in her own trap, while Hook was acting out of Darkness that was forced on him against his will when he got killed while saving their lives, and he managed to fight against all the Darkness to save them all. Even if they don't owe him for keeping them from being dragged into hell because he started that, he was in that fix in the first place because he got mortally wounded saving their lives, so they owe him for that.