S02.E10: The Greater Good

[CooperTV]

After they uncover a secret that could ruin Maria Ostrov's reputation, Elizabeth and President Dalton head to Switzerland to meet with her and use the information as leverage to find a peaceful solution to the escalated conflict with Russia. Also, Dmitri requests to be released from his duties as a spy.

 

[secnarf]

Didn't Dmitri already - rather definitively - say that he was out of the spy business?
At least this means he is alive.

[whatsatool]

Is that Henry in the last scene?

[candall]

I can't even make words.

[roomtorome]

This felt like a cartoon version of the show. Everyone seemed to be overacting, especially the horrible actress playing the over the top Russian president. And Henry? Ugh.

The whole thing felt incredibly contrived. Felt like a show from the 70s or something with this Russia and U.S. conflict taken to this extreme. Nothing subtle in the writing whatsoever.

I felt zero suspense about the last second. At least we know Madam Secretary will survive and if they killed the Pres of the U.S., then the show is really desperate. Hopefully, they killed the Russian pres. And we can move on from this vintage story.

[mythoughtis]

Didn't look like Henry to me.  Wasn't he a pilot?  also, he wouldn't have had access to a uniform - nor been allowed to have any privacy to 'escape' between the hotel and the airport, or time to set this all up.  No, this is either a Russian or Ukraine plot to kill the President, or a US plot to kill the Russians.   The whole plotline has been over the top.  Henry has no business being a spy, it's not his background, and his wife is the Secretary of State.    Why not expose the Russian woman as a murderer rather than give up a US asset. 

Edited December 14, 2015 by mythoughtis

[gazebo]

Oh poor Dimitry! He's really screwed isn't he? I am hoping and praying that Henry can still save him. But I have a sad feeling that that might not happen.

That damn bitch Maria Ostrov! She's gotta go down!

Did the Russian president order the assassination of the POTUS or Madam Secretary? I can't believe how this show ended! This cliffhanger is gonna kill me!

I don't envy these high government officials, their jobs can really suck so hard! They just threw a guy who was helping them under a bus all for the sake of the country. It's just so unfair. I think it's time Henry get out of the spy business. He's too decent a man to be in such a dirty and heartless business.

[renard]

I liked most of the episode but the ending has me calling BS; the Secret Service (if not the protective details for the other nations also) would have had all roof tops locked down. Hate to see Dmitri sacrificed.

[buttersister]

Is this the first time they've meta-ed [Capt. Professor} Arm Candy?

 

That was a Russian at the end, with the rocket, not killing Madame Secretary. Guessing it was an old army buddy of her late husband's taking aim at Maria Ostrov. Leaks are everywhere these days.

[shapeshifter]

Is this the first time they've meta-ed [Capt. Professor} Arm Candy?

I'm pretty sure it was. I LOLed and clapped. Thank you, Show.

That was a Russian at the end, with the rocket, not killing Madame Secretary. Guessing it was an old army buddy of her late husband's taking aim at Maria Ostrov. Leaks are everywhere these days.

Seriously? But isn't that likely to blow back on the Americans (not that they don't deserve it for throwing Dimitri to the lions).

Felt like a show from the 70s or something with this Russia and U.S. conflict taken to this extreme.

Except if it was from the 70s, Captain Armcandy would've single-handedly rescued Dimitri--with the president's blessing. Edited December 14, 2015 by shapeshifter

[bros402]

Except if it was from the 70s, Captain Armcandy would've single-handedly rescued Dimitri--with the president's blessing.

 

And he would've rescued the president's son (presumably engaging in antics in Geneva)

[pennben]

Didn't look like Henry to me.  Wasn't he a pilot? 

 

He was.  When they showed the close-up of the fighter pilot at the beginning shooting down the Russian plane, I half expected the pilot to flip up his helmet and it would be revealed that it was Dr. Professor Arm-Candy Spy and Hero Pilot who came out of retirement to fight the Russians for his beloved Dmitri:) Him giving the thumbs up when looking into the camera on the plane (knowing that Bess would be watching along with the President) would have been a perfect shot:), and captured the ridiculousness I find in his increased role this season. 

 

Clearly, I'm done with his new role as smartest guy in the room.  I, for one, fully expect that he has not really left Russia and will somehow be involved in saving the day in the conclusion of this cliffhanger. My patience is wearing very thin for this show.

Edited December 14, 2015 by pennben

[betsyboo]

I liked Stevie and Bess decorating the tree and talking about a boy. Just so normal. And Bess clearly needed a moment of normal.

 

I was befuddled by Bess's puffy jacket under a wool short sleeve coat at the end....? 

 

I agree that the Secret Service would have had everything locked in. Plus, I'm guessing Pres Ostrov, Pres Dalton AND Bess would not all be leaving at the same time.

 

To me, it looked like the rocket hit the car that Bess was getting in. Whether that car was carrying the Pres, I don't know.

Was Russell not there? Well, he probably had to stay back to run the country. (or am I completely forgetting him in the convo about Dimitri?)

 

What does this (perceived) betrayal mean for the McCord marriage?

[jzygayle]

 I, for one, fully expect that he has not really left Russia and will somehow be involved in saving the day in the conclusion of this cliffhanger. My patience is wearing very thin for this show.

 

I thought they were in Switzerland.

[pennben]

Well, that would explain their flag flying on one of the buildings! 

[Dowel Jones]

What do you bet that the US will suddenly find a Russian mole/spy somewhere that they can exchange for Dmitri?  Everything else on this show seems to sort itself out on short notice.

 

So Lt. Col. Arm Candy surfs the internet now?

 

So cute about Stevie's new boyfriend.  He's actually a 40-ish hedge fund trader with two ex-wives and apack a day habit. 

 

There was a lot of material in that treaty agreement.  I can't see the President managing to arm wrestle the Senate into a quick approval.  And their case against Madame President wasn't all that strong that her PR group couldn't come back with a charge of planting evidence, especially after the US absolutely tanked their investigation of the original AF1 hack.

 

What does this (perceived) betrayal mean for the McCord marriage?

 

One thing would be that Henry realizes that top level government work is not always about cut and dried right and wrong, and should be left to top level government officials, not outside academics who happen to be related to them.  Maybe for the sake of their marriage he should search out another job than teaching ethics at the National War College.  Enrollment is sure to drop as word leaks out (bit by bit) that a lecturer used his influence to create a spy in a foreign government.

[CooperTV]

That was so stupid that I was actually really entertain... Nah, it was just stupid, period.

 

What a contrived, moronic mess! How everyone managed to be an idiot in this show this season (I mean, except Henry, of course, who is the most amazing person in the history of ever!11)? POTUS? Shouty warmongering ass. President Ostrova? Cartoon villain. Elizabeth? Reduced to useless hang-wringing yet again! Jay? Yelling at the Swiss Ambassador like he's a naughty child! The Ukraine Foreign Minister! Acts like a 16-years-old with "I'm too cool for this dude POTUS. Suck it, bitches!" attitude! Matt? His entire personality this episode could be summed up as "Beeeeeeewbs, bro!". Ugh.

 

I guess, Russel and Ephraim were cool but there weren't enough of them for my liking.

 

So let me get this straight. A Cartoon Villain, Maria Ostrova, killed her husband using pretty elaborate and absurdly sounding plan to acquire a medicine she needed for that. Then she put and order on the doctor who gave her the medicine. (I'm sure she couldn't possibly get this medicine on her own. It's not like she's the First Lady or anything).  And then for some reason she became a Russian President, even though it's not a 18th Century and an official's spouse can't claim their SO's posts. And then she proceeded to threat POTUS with the nuclear war if POTUS wouldn't give up their Russian asset. Even though POTUS and SOS could destroy her in the media by even suggesting she killed her husband, let alone giving the press those circumstantial evidence.

 

What a bunch of BS!

 

I only liked Elizabeth with her kids. Henry should retire and live happily ever after with Dmitri somewhere, IDK.

[CMH1981]

I don't know where they can go w/ this cliffhanger, I mean it was obvious he aimed for Elizabeth's car and she was shown in the process of getting in the car.  What irks me more is this will be the second time now that we will/might have a PTSD Elizabeth after a traumatizing life or death situation.

 

I was glad that the writers finally stopped skirting around Bess not supposed to be knowing that Henry is back w/the CIA and all that bullshit.  It was ridiculous that they would have left her out of the loop like that from the beginning.

 

I too love the family scenes, I was wanting more decorating the tree and minor family squabbles w/ the entire family.

Edited December 14, 2015 by CMH1981

[shapeshifter]

What do you bet that the US will suddenly find a Russian mole/spy somewhere that they can exchange for Dmitri?

You mean what's left of Dimitri? Please don't make me (or them) elaborate.

What does this (perceived) betrayal mean for the McCord marriage?

Henry should retire and live happily ever after with Dmitri somewhere, IDK.

Seriously. When POTUS was telling Bess to suck it up, I was thinking: Does he really want to read about his SOS's divorce speculations in the scandal press?

[Bobcatkitten]

God, they are ruining an awesome show with ridiculous storylines. 

 

The cliche thing about the woman killing her husband. So lame. And I have not liked Henry's involvement as a spy the whole time. It really has messed with the work/home balance thing. 

 

Now somehow there is such piss poor security at a treaty talk in Switzerland that one man can blow up the president (or whoever?)

 

Also - what did I miss about Dimitri? Last we saw him he was on a train leaving his life right? 

Edited December 14, 2015 by scribe95

[jaytee1812]

Is this the first time they've meta-ed [Capt. Professor} Arm Candy?

I laugh solidly for about five minutes after.

I did like that the CIA dismissed Maria Ostrov as a beauty queen who married up but Bess wasn't convinced.

Also I could live forever without hearing Tell it to My Heart murdered again.

[shapeshifter]

Also - what did I miss about Dimitri? Last we saw him he was on a train leaving his life right? 

Not sure how he got off the train after the blackout, but then in this episode he first appears using the prostitute's phone to tell Captain Arm Candy the name of the Russian attack target (in spy code) and then begs, pleads, and cries to be gotten out of Russia immediately. Captain Arm Candy's handler says it's not so easy. Then Dimitri is sitting at the conference table when Arch Villainess Ostrov struts around the room and finally identifies the only other young man--who is sitting next to Dimitri--as the mole. This hapless fellow is dragged off screaming for his life. Arm Candy and SOS work harder to get Dimitri out, but just as Arm Candy is about to pick him up, the mission is aborted because POTUS used Dimitri (in an earlier scene with Bess and Arch Villain Ostrov) as a bargaining chip to prevent a nuclear strike.

Probably all you wanted to know was the first 11 words. Right? Sorry. If that was shown, I missed it too.

Edited December 14, 2015 by shapeshifter

[whatsatool]

Somehow I think Dimitri had super powers so I am OK.

[myril]

I don't know where they can go w/ this cliffhanger, I mean it was obvious he aimed for Elizabeth's car and she was shown in the process of getting in the car. 

 

Didn't look that obvious to me, it looked to me more like he was aiming right in the space between the two limousines, while the camera line itself was pointing slightly more towards the Russian's limousine - and I would think that director (Eric Stoltz for this episode) and DP pay attention to such detail. Of course because the movement we see is that of Bess getting into the car, our attention is drawn somewhat to that spot on the screen. The engraving on the rocket launcher was in Cyrillic letters, so either someone wants people to think the attack came from Russia or the Ukraine or it was someone from there. Add some looks and facial expressions in the meetings of the Russian security council, giving a hunch, that something was going on. Agree with buttersister on this, likely some Russian inside job, coup d'etat.

Not so sure about the whole Russian story arc, it has interesting moments, but in other moments feels far-fetched. Will see where they're taking it.

[secnarf]

I still don't understand why Dmitri couldn't just walk into the American consulate in Geneva. Should be easier to do in Switzerland than in Russia, especially since he was able to get away on his own to get to the rendezvous point.

 

The big deal being signed also didn't seem too clear. I wasn't sold on why Ukraine would give up half their territory. I also wasn't convinced that whatever Ostrov claimed she had on the US trumped their (circumstantial) evidence that she killed her husband.

 

I wasn't at all surprised Maria Ostrov killed her husband - I had suspected something along these lines.

 

I also think that "cliffhanger" endings like this one lose their impact with such a long wait. We all know Bess will survive, and if you wait too long between episodes, viewers forget details and can lose interest, because you can't keep up that suspense and be thinking abou it for weeks on end. Eventually it shifts to the back burner of our minds. I just dislike this whole concept of a winter finale + cliffhanger that nearly every show seems to have embraced.

[needschocolate]

This episode felt like the early part of the first season, when I thought the show was ridiculous and was considering dropping it from the scheduled recordings. 

 

There was absolutely no reason to give up Dimitri.  The Russian president had already told the press that Ukraine hacked AF1, she already publicly accused the US of cutting the power.  She had nothing to bargain with.  If she hadn't already told all the secrets she knows, she could have said "I won't tell about this, if you don't tell about my husband, but you'll have to tell me who the mole is if you want me to sign this agreement." So now the bargain becomes "Don't tell about my murderous ways and I will sign your papers."  And that is what POTUS and Bess were going for, but then all Maria has to say is "I have to tell my people something if I sign it" and then they give up Dimitri.  First, they didn't need to offer anything.  Second, if they really felt they had to give her something, I am sure there are other things they could have given up - a prisoner somewhere, maybe?

 

But why keep her secret anyway?  Tell the world and let her be thrown out of office.  Then you don't have a crazy Russian president and you work to get someone a little more rational elected. 

[Netfoot]

The engraving on the rocket launcher was in Cyrillic letters, so either someone wants people to think the attack came from Russia or the Ukraine or it was someone from there.

 

It looked like an RPG-7, which was designed and is built by the Soviets/Russians.  This is by far the most popular rocket-propelled grenade in the world, used by the armed forces of nearly 100 countries, and by freedom fighters, warlords and terrorists everywhere.  It's use would no more implicate the Russians, than would the use of a 9mm bullet implicate the Germans (who developed the 9mm for the Luger pistol).

[justme]

I still don't understand why Dmitri couldn't just walk into the American consulate in Geneva. Should be easier to do in Switzerland than in Russia, especially since he was able to get away on his own to get to the rendezvous point.

 

The big deal being signed also didn't seem too clear. I wasn't sold on why Ukraine would give up half their territory. I also wasn't convinced that whatever Ostrov claimed she had on the US trumped their (circumstantial) evidence that she killed her husband.

 

I wasn't at all surprised Maria Ostrov killed her husband - I had suspected something along these lines.

 

I also think that "cliffhanger" endings like this one lose their impact with such a long wait. We all know Bess will survive, and if you wait too long between episodes, viewers forget details and can lose interest, because you can't keep up that suspense and be thinking abou it for weeks on end. Eventually it shifts to the back burner of our minds. I just dislike this whole concept of a winter finale + cliffhanger that nearly every show seems to have embraced.

I don't understand this winter break and why they think they ( all shows) need it anyway. I hate hate hate it.

Edited December 15, 2015 by justme

[Netfoot]

I hate hate hate it.

 

I hate, hate, hate it, too!  Grrrr!!

[Boundary]

For such an improving show this was a very poor episode. These winter finales are forcing writers to up the ante unnecessarily but then again, who told them viewers need these cliffhangers? All season long I've tuned out this Dimitri nonsense, fast forwarded almost every time and now it's suddenly plot A. Sorry Stevie please come back all is forgiven.

[Kromm]

TWoP by its end probably had two hands full of references posters like us came up with there that got on-air winks.

 

I guess we got our first big one here on Previously.tv with "Arm Candy".

 

That said... we can't be bought that easily.  Dr. Arm Candy and his role got even MORE ludicrous this episode. As did all the laughably comedic bullshit with Maria Ostrov, World Leader, in her sexy nigthclothes injecting her fat ol' hubby to death.  I mean I think we all called that he died because of her, but it was eyerollworthy to actually show it.

[Netfoot]

I guess we got our first big one here on Previously.tv with "Arm Candy".

 

Didn't Liz refer to him as "Arm Candy", way back in the early stages of season one?

[Kromm]

So they've left a full month for this cliffhanger to percolate, huh?

Dare they actually drag out the Vice President to take over?  I mean I don't exactly recall him as all that interesting a character. 

[Anela]

I wanted more of the family scenes. Would it kill some of these writers to have a feel-good ending, for the holidays? 

 

I binged this show in early October, and it seemed like they had more equal time between the personal and political. I also guessed that the Russian woman killed her husband, and of course they had to give up the asset, because the Secretary of State is much too happy in her marriage. I was hoping they would end it without giving up the asset, and having the family return to decorate the tree.

So they've left a full month for this cliffhanger to percolate, huh?

Dare they actually drag out the Vice President to take over?  I mean I don't exactly recall him as all that interesting a character. 

 

I thought so. When he was put on some sort of list as a hot spouse, I think. 

[needschocolate]

I guess we got our first big one here on Previously.tv with "Arm Candy".

 

Didn't Liz refer to him as "Arm Candy", way back in the early stages of season one?

 

I also remember him being referred to as "Arm Candy" back in early season one.  I thought that some in the press/news (maybe tabloid "news") called him Arm Candy and Elizabeth and the staff joked about it. 

 

A very quick search turned up a list on CBS.com of "15 Things We Know About Henry McCord"  Number 3 on the list is

 

Henry was voted third hottest D.C. spouse -- "arm candy" -- by a magazine.

 

I found no date on the article.  None of the 15 items refer to anything specific in the second season, although some refer specifically to the first season ("Henry plays Chess").  My personal favorite is number 13 - "Henry thinks power is sexy" which sounds to me like a cheesy line from a dating site video for a guy who wonders why he can't get a date. 

 

So, I am sorry to report that "Arm Candy" isn't meta. I guess we have no proof that the people connected to Madam Secretary pay attention to those of us here (if they did, maybe she would stop wearing snug jackets with 3/4 length sleeves over a blouse with full length sleeves).

[Dowel Jones]

Relax, folks.  The next episode will start with Henry hearing the report of the rifle grenade being fired, and with his super sharp reflexes, will grab a nearby trash can lid and deflect the incoming round into a nearby SUV filled with unfortunate redshirts.  That's the explosion that we will see. 

 

Do I need to spoiler tag this post?

[bros402]

Now somehow there is such piss poor security at a treaty talk in Switzerland that one man can blow up the president (or whoever?)

 

The secret service wouldn't tolerate it - let alone the Swiss Guard - the Swiss may be neutral, but they are deadly.

[QTBlueMoon]

I thought I heard the guy say that new episodes would start in the spring.  That's considerably more than a month.  That's way too long.

[Guest]

I thought I heard the guy say that new episodes would start in the spring.  That's considerably more than a month.  That's way too long.

 

Henry is going to change the seasons so that spring starts in late January this year.  He's all powerful.

[kwnyc]

Dare they actually drag out the Vice President to take over?  I mean I don't exactly recall him as all that interesting a character.

 

Well, he did throw up on the Chinese foreign minister.

[myril]

It looked like an RPG-7, which was designed and is built by the Soviets/Russians.  This is by far the most popular rocket-propelled grenade in the world, used by the armed forces of nearly 100 countries, and by freedom fighters, warlords and terrorists everywhere.  It's use would no more implicate the Russians, than would the use of a 9mm bullet implicate the Germans (who developed the 9mm for the Luger pistol).

You're right. Should have been more precise, sorry: The camera lingered on the engraving, and think they did that for a reason. Meaning the show wants viewers to think it were Russians involved, one way or the other. Noticing those letters as Cyrillic might be a bit easier than knowing what type of weapon it exactly was.

Think with this show it is a lot more likely that the attack was not aimed at the President and Bess. Of course they still could go for killing Dalton, but I don't see what good that would do the show, unless Carradine wants to leave and they had to come up with something, and they have to work with Vice President Delgado, keeping the show on the brink of a war between Russia and the U.S.. Don't know if they wanted people to worry about Bess, I don't worry, but seems to work to make people wonder enough to tune in to see what happened.

 

[Netfoot]

Think with this show it is a lot more likely that the attack was not aimed at the President and Bess. Of course they still could go for killing Dalton, but I don't see what good that would do the show, unless Carradine wants to leave and they had to come up with something, and they have to work with Vice President Delgado, keeping the show on the brink of a war between Russia and the U.S.. Don't know if they wanted people to worry about Bess, I don't worry, but seems to work to make people wonder enough to tune in to see what happened.

 

No doubt we're supposed to gnaw our fingernails with worry that Téa & Tim might be in jeopardy.  Obviously, they aren't.  So maybe they want Dalton out to introduce a new President, or even to suggest Madam Secretary might become Madam President.  But Maria was also in that parking lot, climbing into a limo.  Maybe it's a Ukrainian move to eliminate Maria!

Edited December 15, 2015 by Netfoot

[Kromm]

You know I wonder if there's some magic that will somehow leapfrog all the other candidates (including Bess) and make Super Doctor Arm Candy Man into the next Pres (if the current one is dead)? I mean that wouldn't be any more ridiculous than what they already have him doing.

[shapeshifter]

So they've left a full month for this cliffhanger to percolate, huh?

Dare they actually drag out the Vice President to take over?  I mean I don't exactly recall him as all that interesting a character. 

Wait. What? There's a Vice President?

 

You know I wonder if there's some magic that will somehow leapfrog all the other candidates (including Bess) and make Super Doctor Arm Candy Man into the next Pres (if the current one is dead)? I mean that wouldn't be any more ridiculous than what they already have him doing.

"Super Doctor Arm Candy Man." Heh. Perfect.

[Netfoot]

Wait. What? There's a Vice President?

 

Yeh, her name is Sharon, and she's got an Agent of her own, but he's nowhere as good as Candy.  Arm Candy, 006½.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Netfoot

[whatsatool]

I also remember him being referred to as "Arm Candy" back in early season one. I thought that some in the press/news (maybe tabloid "news") called him Arm Candy and Elizabeth and the staff joked about it.

A very quick search turned up a list on CBS.com of "15 Things We Know About Henry McCord" Number 3 on the list is

I found no date on the article. None of the 15 items refer to anything specific in the second season, although some refer specifically to the first season ("Henry plays Chess"). My personal favorite is number 13 - "Henry thinks power is sexy" which sounds to me like a cheesy line from a dating site video for a guy who wonders why he can't get a date.

So, I am sorry to report that "Arm Candy" isn't meta. I guess we have no proof that the people connected to Madam Secretary pay attention to those of us here (if they did, maybe she would stop wearing snug jackets with 3/4 length sleeves over a blouse with full length sleeves).

Or jumpers. Never a good look.

[betsyboo]

Or jumpers. Never a good look.

YES! Thank you! I forgot to talk about that! WHAT was that?????? I flashed back to my 1983 7th grade teacher at my Catholic school.

Edited December 16, 2015 by betsyboo

[MissLucas]

Jay really needs to work on his diplomatic skills - yelling at the ambassador of the country that represents US interests in Teheran is not polite (though in this show's universe Bess has already covered that). But his bargaining skills are even worse.

"Hey, we want something from you and in exchange you'll get the opportunity to sink millions into organizing a huge event at costs that will never pay off and invest in massive sports infrasctructure that will never be amortized. What do you mean - the last four attempts to bid for the winter games were nixed in popular votes? Oops! Here have a nice box of chocolates!"

[sinkwriter]

 

I still don't understand why Dmitri couldn't just walk into the American consulate in Geneva. Should be easier to do in Switzerland than in Russia, especially since he was able to get away on his own to get to the rendezvous point.

I don't understand why they couldn't go through with the extraction anyway. If Maria only asked for the name of the person, they could have rescued the kid first and then said, "This is his name. But you can't harm him because he's on neutral soil and has already been taken in by the consulate. Sorry!"

 

Of course there's always going to be the question of the Russians sending someone to kill the kid wherever he goes. He and his sister would have to be in protective custody of some sort, but at least he'd be safe and with his sister. I'm really pissed off that he got screwed and he'll probably be killed. I knew it was probably going to happen, since day 1 of Henry becoming his handler, but I'm still pissed off about it.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if Henry single-handedly goes rogue and tries to save the kid. He's Super Captain Arm Candy. He could do it.

[whatsatool]

They (the show) already killed friends in Afghanistan. I don't think they will kill Dimitri in spite of Henry's ineptitude.

Edited December 17, 2015 by whatsatool