S04.E08: Legends Of Yesterday (2)

[sjohnson]

Haven't watched Arrow this year, too exhausted by the League of Assassins crap last year. (Besides, I've discovered that in my mind the series, Oliver and Stephen Amell went out on a very high note in the series finale, when he bravely faced whozis/Matt Nable and died. Very sad, but at least there's closure.) 

 

Don't particularly like reincarnation crap. But there's something wonderfully cheering about a world where all problems can be solved by sheer will power, something you can easily get after the right pep talk!

 

I must note that if you've got a dude whose super power has something to do with other time lines, not using it in a time travel story doesn't make much sense.

[blixie]

 

If I wasn't aware that the actual legal system existed, maybe I'd buy it?

 

She has possession of the kid, she has a lot of ammunition in a custody fight, and while she most like wouldn't be able to stop him from having visitation, she could make it all very difficult and painful, and she'd lay all of that on him for upsetting the kid's applecart. Of course ALL THE FAULTS ARE MINE Oliver is going to cooperate v. bring his son any pain/distress.

 

That kid is FINE w/o Oliver, and God knows this show (by which I mean Olicity since it was the only good thing about this season) was doing fine this season with that freakin kid. So if he's decided he'll respect her wishes because the kid is better off w/o him that's fine with me, he should not be lying to Felicity about it of course and it's contrived and stupid on both the writers and characters parts, but that's no less than I expect from Guggenheim et al. 

 

My biggest hope in fact was that Oliver would learn about the kid, and decide exactly what he did, that he would love to be a part of his life, but he wouldn't force anything, and he'll be there kid when ever they can mutually agree it's a good idea. Then I wanted Felicity to give him a hard time because daddy issues, I wanted Felicity to be WRONG, and Oliver to be RIGHT and give Felicity some growth and POV. NOPE we get the 576th version of Oliver is a dumb asshole and learns the same dumb asshole lesson. UGH. 

 

In other news it seems I'm in a minority of Vandal Savage actor appreciation? I thought he was so camp and fun, but also reasonably badass. DD continues to aggravate me with his Kill Them has he said that in every episode so far, has it ever worked so far? Whatever Damien.

[KirkB]

Yeah, my reaction to Oliver saying "My mother wouldn't do that" was "Really? You're lucky she didn't have her killed." Paying her to lie to you and go away was perhaps the least villainous thing Moira Queen ever did.

[bethy]

Yeah, my reaction to Oliver saying "My mother wouldn't do that" was "Really? You're lucky she didn't have her killed." 

 

That made me LOL.

[paigow]

"Hey, Laurel, I need you to do some pro-bono lawyering for me...

Only if Oliver wants to lose... The alternative would be for Barry to move in with Samantha & Will...

[Morrigan2575]

For those asking, here's the clip of the Donkey making a break from the bad Hawk acting.

https://twitter.com/JeffreyBridges/status/672282482209775617

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Arrow Has A Big Superhero Team-Up
This episode has it all! Action! Spin-offs! Costumes! Seriously, a lot of costumes.

[Chaos Theory]

It wouldn't be Arrow if Oliver Queen wasn't keeping possibly damaging secrets from someone he loves for murky often questonable reasons.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[athelyna]

Did Oliver actually promise not to tell anyone he has a kid at all, or just promise not to tell that he's William's father?  Because he could clue Felicity into what was happening without revealing the kid or baby-mama's identity.  Sure it would be really awkward to sit down and go "So, 10 years ago before the boat wreck I had an affair with a girl, and she got pregnant.  Later she told me she miscarried, and moved away from Starling.  I just found out that my mother offered her a million dollars to lie about the miscarriage and move, and that I actually have a kid.  She didn't take the money, but she understandably decided she wanted nothing more to do with the Queen family, and the only way she'll let me the kid is if I keep their identities secret from everyone - even you for now.  I don't want to press her legally, because the last thing anyone wants is for Damian Darhk to know they exist, plus my campaign manager would probably kill me for sudden lovechild at this point of the campaign, so I'll work on convincing her to meet you and letting you meet the kid.  Again, for everyone's safety we need to keep this secret for now and please don't go googling all my past contacts trying to find her." but that has to be better than outright lying to Felicity.  And even with Baby-mama not knowing Oliver is the arrow I can understand her reluctance to let him publicly acknowledge the kid, if she's seen any Star City news she knows what happened to the last mayoral candidate's child.

 

Other than some of the face palming stupidity of the baby-mama drama, I'm apparently in the minority that enjoyed the episode.  The Flash half was better, but I thought the Hawks were competent enough and I liked Carter's bizarre mix of dickish know it all and batshit insane from all the past lives info.  I thought Vandal Savage was a good over the top kind of evil villain, and I'm willing to see how he plays out over the course of LOT. 

[thuganomics85]

 

For those asking, here's the clip of the Donkey making a break from the bad Hawk acting.

My Name is Donkey.  For several hours, I was trapped inside a fence watching a film shoot that was written like an after-school special and reduced normally decent actors into amateurs.  But now I have escaped and I will full-fill my father's dying wish: to save this show.  To do this, I must become someone else. I must become something else.  (cue music.)

[cambridgeguy]

The episode was fun if you throw out the soap opera stuff. Barry not being able to win a fight instantly against most opponents will never make sense from a realism standpoint - VS is immortal, not invulnerable, so speed punch that bastard! However, it was still cool to see the costumed folks duking it out.

It was odd that there was NO mention of Sara even though they were in Central City, and being a candidate for a major US city is apparently less time consuming than I thought. Mysticism experts would also be smart enough to collect those ashes - where's Constantine when you need him?

[blixie]

 

the Donkey making a break from the bad Hawk acting.

 

If only this episode had been just Escaping Donkeys and Butt Clenching.

[calliope1975]

"Hey Felicity, can I borrow some cash for a retainer? I need a lawyer, and...what for? Oh, um..." LMAO, I can just imagine it. 

 

Wait. Not only is this asshole lying to Felicity, he's still being bankrolled and living off her cash, too, right? I may need to day drink.

[foreverevolving]

Two more things . . .

 

1. Completely missed the donkey. My mother likes 'em, probably because I remind her of Eeyore. Has the donkey been GIFed yet?

 

no gif set, but there a youtuve video

[dtissagirl]

Wait. Not only is this asshole lying to Felicity, he's still being bankrolled and living off her cash, too, right? I may need to day drink.

 

Wait, so when they break up, she gets the Arrow bunker, and his campaign offices because she's paying for everything. Is the paying rent at the loft too?

 

Homeless Green Arrow is a show I would watch.

[marketdoctor]

 

Homeless Green Arrow is a show I would watch.

 

There was a Homeless James Bond on a show called "Acceptable TV", but some people criticized it for being insensitive to the homeless.  (I'm not making any of that up.)

 

I liked Cisco's line about "the first rule of time travel is, never talk about time travel!" and all of Thea's nicely meta references.

 

The drama with the kid seemed wildly out of place.  Even if the kid is important in a future timeline (on that I have no idea, but it's based on a comic book, so…maybe?).  There are other, more appropriate places to work in the kid--my choice would be to have Dhark kidnap the kid and have Oliver discover it that way.

[Carrie Ann]

Someone on tumblr pointed out that baby mama basically told Oliver to choose between Felicity and his kid. And he chose his kid.

 

A good parent should always choose the welfare of their kid, though. But the thing is that he doesn't *have* to choose the kid over Felicity. The mother is asking him to keep a secret for absolutely no reason. He is keeping it for no reason.

 

Yeah, the way I see it, Oliver's choice wasn't William vs Felicity; it was a choice between lying to Samantha or lying to Felicity, and he chose the latter. I certainly understand him choosing to do whatever to see his son right now. But he could have told Samantha what she wanted to hear, and then come home to SC and told Felicity, and both of them would have pretended he didn't. As @apinknightmare said, at best, we're talking about Oliver feeling a sense of honor, of keeping his promise to Samantha, but he is simultaneously sacrificing his implicit promise to Felicity, to have honesty in their relationship.

[catrox14]

So here's a thought.  What if Oliver's weird scene with Felicity at the end is  because somehow his memory is wonky everytime the timeline changes. Like maybe he's not entirely in control of his fate or choices because something has changed.  Maybe something happened between when he left Central City and sees Felicity in the loft again? 

 

I thought Oliver looked way to relieved to be lying to Felicity again and that just does not seem like the Oliver that has progressed in the past 4 seasons....

 

I can't believe Stephen would have played it that way without a reason.

Edited December 3, 2015 by catrox14

[dtissagirl]

Complete change of topics, but it's bugging me: are they setting some plotty plot up with the weird faulty wires thing in the Arrow bunker, or what? Sure, Cisco gave Felicity the fix, but what's the point of any of this?

[KirkB]

Complete change of topics, but it's bugging me: are they setting some plotty plot up with the weird faulty wires thing in the Arrow bunker, or what? Sure, Cisco gave Felicity the fix, but what's the point of any of this?

 

 

There could be a larger reason for it, like a fire later on or something, but I'm guessing the whole premise was set up solely for Cisco getting to make a joke/comment about it during this crossover.

[Chaser]

The more I think about this the dumber it gets. Oliver may have been dealing with the fight with Felicity, but he didn't make any mistakes with Savage. The plan just didn't work. That's all Barry needed to tell Oliver. "Hey the plan didn't work and everyone dies so we need to rethink this."

 

So here's a thought.  What if Oliver's weird scene with Felicity at the end is  because somehow his memory is wonky everytime the timeline changes. Like maybe he's not entirely in control of his fate or choices because something has changed.  Maybe something happened between when he left Central City and sees Felicity in the loft again? 

 

I thought Oliver looked way to relieved to be lying to Felicity again and that just does not seem like the Oliver that has progressed in the past 4 seasons....

 

I can't believe Stephen would have played it that way without a reason.

I imagine he was playing it as total relief he didn't lose his girl. They didn't break up and the world didn't end. Plus he is compartmentalizing. William is not a problem in Star City. William gets CC.

 

Rewatching it, there was a moment I thought he was doubting his choice but he decided on boob cuddles instead.

 

I would be much more forgiving of the scene if not for the previous scene with Laurel. I really wish they had changed the setting. There is regressing and then there is OLLIE. 

[TVHappy9463]

Crossover winners: Malcolm, love his popping in and being so evil at the end!, Barry he is the hero we need and deserve, Wells and Snow chemistry.

Crossovers losers: Hawk people, too bad they are part of Legends of Tomorrow, but I have Sara and Ray to look forward too.  The whole kid story line.  And Felicity getting screwed again, at least Oliver is consistent, lying, hiding things, making decisions for everyone.  I hope Felicity dumps him once and for all, she deserves a great guy and a happily every after and that is not Oliver. 

The anvils couldn't have been bigger or louder if they were flashing neon sub-titles, "heroes don't get the girl", "time travels has consequences", "if you get my daughter killed I will kill you ( or something like that)".

[Delphi]

So I figured out what was bothering me with the flashbacks. And it's so dumb, but I had like mental flashes of the Anastasia movie by DreamWorks. Vandal is Rasputin. And I just think of the dowager empress going, "we thought he was a holy man but he was a fraud! "

Edited December 3, 2015 by Delphi

[Password]

Yeah on rewatch it seems to be Cisco's mittens that don't work. Then Oliver tells Barry to leave because he's sacrificing himself.

I don't have enough negative words to describe how I hated the cuddle scene. Too. Much. Similarity.

[kismet]

LIfe was life and I was unable to watch the episode until just now.... I can't make it through 7 pages without saying OMG! I can't believe he didn't tell her. Felicity is not just somebody. If it was ok for Samantha to lie to William & OQ for 8+ years, than I think it would have been fine to tell FS the truth. Even if he had promised Samantha, what a bitch she was. Also why didn't he just take FS with him and then it could have been revealed all at the same time & Samantha could not have made the ultimatum.

 

I cannot believe that he didn't at least try to tell FS the truth. Besides saving everybody dying, I wish BA hadn't time jumped things. Because I sorta liked them being in a fight more than OQ willing keeping it from FS. I'm so mad right now.

 

The rest of the episode - whatever it was fine. Nothing amazing or spectacular. Although the graphics and the banter were good. A little too much Cisco & Kendra... But overall a fine episode. MM you cheeky little bastard, I wonder what he has cooking. It was decent. I like VS better in this episode. And I do think that is his normal English talking accent, nothing he is doing for the character.

Edited December 3, 2015 by kismet

[AyChihuahua]

IDK how this is possible...

 

But tumblr and twitter are calming me down about this arc.

I kind of knew that would happen (not just you, a lot of people), but I have to tell you, if you think it's going to work out okay...it's really not.  He's going to keep lying, she's going to find out through another avenue, she's going to dump him, they're going to be at odds just like in S3, one or both might date other people (Baby Mama), and it's going to get worse.  Then at the end of the season they'll probably get back together, it'll be nonsensical, Olicity will be forever cheapened, they'll be happy for an episode, the season will be over, then S5 will be rinse and repeat.

[Password]

I agree with almost everything you said except the dating other people part. I don't think the writers will go there.

It's just going to suck so bad. So. Bad.

[AyChihuahua]

I know Oliver's between a rock and a hard place. I mostly got angry because the writers didn't give him a voice or any agency in this episode because they were busy with the LoT setup (which I'm officially bitter about because this is a huge storyline and should've been given more time to set up). THey didn't voice this desperation to keep Felicity or his kid in his life. They didn't voice why Oliver was doing what he was doing. Which is all VERY important. 

But he's NOT between a rock and a hard place.  Literally ALL he has to do is just tell Felicity, and tell her why she needs to keep it secret.  That's it.  He's only between a rock and a hard place if the rock is in Wyoming and the hard place is in Florida and there's an INCREDIBLY clear, simple, and broad path between them.  There is NO reason not to tell Felicity except that he thinks she'll dump him.  So he's manipulating her and lying to her to keep dating her.  That is DISGUSTING. 

[Password]

I just can't get past how selfish it is. It's too vintage Ollie for me to sympathise with him thinking he'd lose Felicity.

Nope. Nope nope.

[AyChihuahua]

I agree with almost everything you said except the dating other people part. I don't think the writers will go there.

It's just going to suck so bad. So. Bad.

Something is going to happen with Baby Mama.  Maybe not dating, but something.  At least moments where they both gaze lovingly at their son while standing near each other.  

 

Thank GOD the Cane Toad is gone.  (And I don't see anyone else around for Felicity to date, so I think she'll stay single.)

I just can't get past how selfish it is. It's too vintage Ollie for me to sympathise with him thinking he'd lose Felicity.

Nope. Nope nope.

Yeah, I mean, she might dump him.  (She wouldn't have, but he thinks that she would.)  That is 100% her right.  If she doesn't want to date a guy with a kid, she GETS TO NOT DATE A GUY WITH A KID.  Everything he's doing is manipulation.  

[Password]

If they plan on getting to an Olicity proposal and acceptance by the season finale they better not even think of baby mama and Oliver hooking up.

*depressing thought*

Why do I do this to myself.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Password

[statsgirl]

Overall thought -- MG said last season "we get a lot of mileage out of having Oliver's head stuck up his ass".  He's not the only one in the position.

Here's another thing I found puzzling. How exactly did Oliver being distracted make them originally lose to Savage? I don't remember a particular turning point that cost them everything because he was having an existential crisis during the fight.

He said that he, Barry and the Hawks would take care of Savage and Diggle, Thea and Laurel should just stay behind in the farmhouse.  The second time around he told everyone to "suit up".

 

The first time he also let Hawman handle training Kendra and when it came to the warehouse, she couldn't get her Hawk on. The second time he told Gary Stu Cisco that he is the best person to train her because he knows what it's like and he did, and not the guy who had been her soulmate for 4,000 years and helped her through the previous 205 reincarnations..

 

Also, because Cisco helped Kendra remember, she connected the rock on the sceptre and the rocks raining from the skies and that clued them in to what the mittens needed to work.

 

What's strange to me is how angry I am about it. This exact thing happened last year with Malcolm Merlyn but I literally just hand waved it because it was contrived plottiness.

Now I am just so angry at Oliver. 3 years to learn the same lesson. 3 years where bad things happened because of secrets and he STILL DOESN'T GET IT.

That's why I'm angry about it now. Been there, done that, didn't enjoy it the first time.

You know what they say about doing something over and over and expecting a different result.

 

the woman is asking Oliver to basically risk his personal relationships in order to see his son, which is something he has a right to do without all that. It's an empty threat, and Oliver is falling for it. 

The Stupid, it hurts.

 

Oliver, speak to Diggle. NOW.

Edited December 3, 2015 by statsgirl

[wonderwall]

I kind of knew that would happen (not just you, a lot of people), but I have to tell you, if you think it's going to work out okay...it's really not.  He's going to keep lying, she's going to find out through another avenue, she's going to dump him, they're going to be at odds just like in S3, one or both might date other people (Baby Mama), and it's going to get worse.  Then at the end of the season they'll probably get back together, it'll be nonsensical, Olicity will be forever cheapened, they'll be happy for an episode, the season will be over, then S5 will be rinse and repeat.

 

But he's NOT between a rock and a hard place.  Literally ALL he has to do is just tell Felicity, and tell her why she needs to keep it secret.  That's it.  He's only between a rock and a hard place if the rock is in Wyoming and the hard place is in Florida and there's an INCREDIBLY clear, simple, and broad path between them.  There is NO reason not to tell Felicity except that he thinks she'll dump him.  So he's manipulating her and lying to her to keep dating her.  That is DISGUSTING.

 

If he was abstinent last year, I doubt he'd date this year after being with Felicity and after pretty much understanding fully that he needs her in his life. 

I agree that they cheapened the relationship because of this mama drama. I'm just morbidly curious how they're going to fix it. Will it be a quick fix it like they did last year? Or will they actually spend the time and have Oliver earn back Felicity's trust? Because right now I really terribly want them to break up over this. Oliver needs to learn and grovel. 

 

I actually think Oliver is in a rock and a hard place because of a few things you probably missed because you didn't watch the episode:

•  Barry told Oliver that Felicity broke up with him because of the kid not because he lied to her which probably freaked him out. We all know how        Oliver acts when he's desperate. He makes the worst decisions. And without Felicity's guidance obviously he made the worst decision here
• Samantha was emotionally blackmailing him telling him he couldn't tell Felicity or else she would revoke his rights to see his child. 
• Not to mention Oliver tells Felicity, then everyone dies... So he clearly doesn't want that to happen in the new timeline
• So combine the two, Oliver thinks that Felicity would break up with him because of the kid (which Barry tells him is the case and since Barry didn't lie about the other things Oliver would be inclined to believe him), a lot of people will die because of said break up, and Samantha emotionally blackmailing him... It's a poor decision, but it makes sense for a man who's that desperate and doesn't know what to do.

There were two things I could've done/can do without if the writers didn't want me to hate this story though:

• The cuddle at the end which was terrible (at least he could've looked conflicted)
• • The proposal

  I wonder if Oliver thinks that a proposal will make Samantha less batshit crazy and let him tell her the truth? Either way...... *sigh*

[Moya the Leviathan]

It was actually two million dollars. Moira gave her the one million to leave, and promised her another million once she got to Central City. So, either the writers forgot about that (likely), she actually kept a million and lied to Oliver about it (I can see her doing this because she seems like an asshole) or Moira has the worst follow-up ever. 

Moira's sense of gangster family values seems unlikely to spare the Benjamins when it comes to her first grandson unless Malcolm Merlyn was sniffing around the books.  Of course I am so biased, I'm busy dreaming Earth 2/time travel/LOT consequences that feature Susannah Thompson as **SURPRISE** still alive.

[AyChihuahua]

Barry told Oliver that Felicity broke up with him because of the kid not because he lied to her which probably freaked him out. We all know how        Oliver acts when he's desperate. He makes the worst decisions. And without Felicity's guidance obviously he made the worst decision here

Samantha was emotionally blackmailing him telling him he couldn't tell Felicity or else she would revoke his rights to see his child.

Not to mention Oliver tells Felicity, then everyone dies... So he clearly doesn't want that to happen in the new timeline

So combine the two, Oliver thinks that Felicity would break up with him because of the kid (which Barry tells him is the case and since Barry didn't lie about the other things Oliver would be inclined to believe him), a lot of people will die because of said break up, and Samantha emotionally blackmailing him... It's a poor decision, but it makes sense for a man who's that desperate and doesn't know what to do.

None of that is an actual rock and an actual hard place.  Again, Baby Mama would not know if he told Felicity.  She could not possibly know unless she put a bug on him.  So to the extent it's between seeing the kid (not even as a dad) and lying to Felicity, there's an easy fix.  No rock/hard place.  

 

He doesn't have Felicity's guidance because he is failing to tell her the existence of the thing about which he needs her guidance.  He can't create the problem and then complain about it.

 

This is something huge that affects her and she not only has every right to know, she also has every right to dump him for it.  That's life.  If she doesn't want to date a guy who has a kid, that's her right.  (She wouldn't have dumped him for having a kid, but he doesn't know that, and it doesn't really matter.)  Re his desperation to keep Felicity...tons of people are desperate to keep people dating them.  Once they start lying to that person regarding information that THEY KNOW would be relevant to the person's decision whether to say, they are manipulating.  He has absolutely no right at all to lie to her to keep her.  That is Edward Cullen stalker BS.  

 

Re his fear of losing her in general, I get it.  He has real issues with losing people.  That is why he lies to and manipulates them.  He's done that since the Pilot.  He SUPPOSEDLY LEARNED THIS WAS BAD.  He did this exact same crap JUST LAST SEASON.  He did it to her in S2, with Slade.  He's doing it to her AGAIN. 

 

If he tells her in the next episode, I'll be fine.  But he's not going to.  He's going to lie to her more and more while he visits the kid, for weeks if not months.  Lie to her face again and again, while she thinks they're building a life together, he's off visiting his OTHER life, from which he has intentionally excluded her.

If he was abstinent last year, I doubt he'd date this year after being with Felicity and after pretty much understanding fully that he needs her in his life.

He expected to die last season.  This season he wants to live.  He'll want to live even more now that he knows he has a kid.  No more planned suicides.  If she dumps him in a way he deems permanent, at some point he'd realistically start dating again.  He's going to be spending time with Baby Mama and the actress is available and signed for at least a couple more episodes.  I won't be AT ALL surprised if they at least share a moment over their son.

Edited December 3, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Cthulhudrew]

Complete change of topics, but it's bugging me: are they setting some plotty plot up with the weird faulty wires thing in the Arrow bunker, or what? Sure, Cisco gave Felicity the fix, but what's the point of any of this?

I thought it was just Cisco showing off for Kendra how connected he was with the whole superhero world. IIRC, they even showed a reaction shot from her afterwards smiling at him.

[looptab]

Yeah, the way I see it, Oliver's choice wasn't William vs Felicity; it was a choice between lying to Samantha or lying to Felicity, and he chose the latter. I certainly understand him choosing to do whatever to see his son right now. But he could have told Samantha what she wanted to hear, and then come home to SC and told Felicity, and both of them would have pretended he didn't. 

This. This is what I can't make sense of, and why I hated it, and I hated it since it was suggested in the spoilers thread. 

 

Rewatched it- I hate myself- so here's a few spare things:

Laurel had the weirdest lines, said in the worst possible ways.

Maybe it's always like that and I just noticed it this time because there were 43 people in that farm, but they do some weird blocking(?). People just exchanging positions between them depending on who has to say the line and be front. Like at some point Felicity just goes and takes Barry's place leaning to a door, and he moves away. Totally took me out of it.

Edited December 3, 2015 by looptab

[dtissagirl]

It's just weird, to spend narrative time across episodes setting up a bug on the Arrow bunker, only for Cisco to show off to a girl on an episode if The Flash. I dunno. I expect nothing at this point, but it would be neat if there's more to this -- and it's a story arc for Felicity.

[looptab]

It's just weird, to spend narrative time across episodes setting up a bug on the Arrow bunker, only for Cisco to show off to a girl on an episode if The Flash. I dunno. I expect nothing at this point, but it would be neat if there's more to this -- and it's a story arc for Felicity.

Like maybe

Calculator messing with/intercepting her?

[bijoux]

By the way, when Ollie was like, "my mother wouldn't do that" I busted a gut. Sir, your mother secretly had a ship salvaged from the north China area, lied (justified) about your sisters parentage, had an affair with a super villain, proceeded to threaten that villain with another super villain, shot you, let you get kidnapped and then let your step dad get kidnapped. I love Moira, but yes, Ollie, that is absolutely something she would do.

Oh, no, no. Let's not sugar coat it. Moira didn't let him get kidnapped, she had him kidnapped. I love the woman but she was effed up.

  

There could be a larger reason for it, like a fire later on or something, but I'm guessing the whole premise was set up solely for Cisco getting to make a joke/comment about it during this crossover.

 

But there's been problems since they moved there. It feels like it shoukd have more pay off than Cisco taking them to task.

He said that he, Barry and the Hawks would take care of Savage and Diggle, Thea and Laurel should just stay behind in the farmhouse.  The second time around he told everyone to "suit up".

 

The first time he also let Hawman handle training Kendra and when it came to the warehouse, she couldn't get her Hawk on. The second time he told Gary Stu Cisco that he is the best person to train her because he knows what it's like and he did, and not the guy who had been her soulmate for 4,000 years and helped her through the previous 205 reincarnations..

 

Also, because Cisco helped Kendra remember, she connected the rock on the sceptre and the rocks raining from the skies and that clued them in to what the mittens needed to work.

I still can't connect it to Oliver being distracted. The geek squad was in charge of the gauntlet, he didn't really have much of an input there nor could he have. And trusting Carter with Kendra's training makes sense seeing as he's had 4000 years experience with it. (Well, as much sense as it can to trust a winged person you've just met who dropped your friend out of the sky!) it's just a plan not working, not Oliver being distracted as far as I see. Even if he had brought the rest of the team along, they just would have gotten burned there instead of at the farm. I don't think this is something that can be placed on Oliver's shoulders.

[Password]

It was the gloves wasn't it? The first time around they didn't do their job, but the second time they did. Also, the second time Oliver didn't shut himself down but...it was the gloves though.

[bijoux]

Yup, it was the gloves.

[AyChihuahua]

True but Oliver only starts learning these lessons by the 19th episode of the season. I think what Barry said is what really fucked him.  

And then he forgets the next season.

[dtissagirl]

Like maybe

Calculator messing with/intercepting her?

YESSSSsss.

I mean, it's this show and these writers, so who knows, but "replace all the wiring with copper!" is the opposite of an interesting solution for a ghost in the machine setup.

[Delphi]

Oh, no, no. Let's not sugar coat it. Moira didn't let him get kidnapped, she had him kidnapped. I love the woman but she was effed up.

Ahh, good times, Moira was savage as fuck. I miss that.

[nksarmi]

So I figured out what was bothering me with the flashbacks. And it's so dumb, but I had like mental flashes of the Anastasia movie by DreamWorks. Vandal is Rasputin. And I just think of the dowager empress going, "we thought he was a holy man but he was a fraud! "

 

Oh my God - I had that exact same thought early this morning while I was drinking my coffee.  That is exactly who he reminds me of!!!

[Menrva]

Oh my God - I had that exact same thought early this morning while I was drinking my coffee.  That is exactly who he reminds me of!!!

It wouldn't surprise me if it was revealed that Vandal Savage is Rasputin. But I also thought VS looked very Rasputin-y.

[apinknightmare]

I didn't notice last night that Laurel said, "I have the strangest deja vu" after they offed Vidal Sassoon, but SHE WASN'T THERE THE FIRST TIME TO HAVE DEJA VU. 

 

These writers, man.

[bijoux]

I didn't really mind that. She was in probably the 700th warehouse over the course of a year. No wonder it looked familiar.

[nksarmi]

I didn't notice last night that Laurel said, "I have the strangest deja vu" after they offed Vidal Sassoon, but SHE WASN'T THERE THE FIRST TIME TO HAVE DEJA VU. 

 

These writers, man.

I was thinking we might see that happen again later - like that scene might replay in LoT for some reason.  That is the only sense I can make out of that line lol.