S04.E08: Legends Of Yesterday (2)

[wonderwall]

Okay........ I'm just really upset with the way they're going with this show this season in terms of Oliver's development and Oliver/Felicity's relationship. I don't think I have it in me to watch next week. But final thoughts before I bury this episode wayyyyy down under... I'm not in anyway justifying what Oliver's doing. But I do want to understand. So I'm going to try. 

 

I think that Oliver, after such a long time, is happy, and at peace and he doesn't want to ruin that. He is so desperate to keep Felicity in his life, so desperate to want to be with her that he basically took the coward's way out and lied to her. Oliver just didn't want to rock the boat. And I think he got even more spooked just by the thought of him and her breaking up (which probably happened when Barry told Oliver that they broke up in the other timeline).  I can see Oliver being so desperate in holding onto her that his desperation clouded his judgement. Maybe he feels like if he loses Felicity, he will lose everything he has and revert back to the man he was before, someone he doesn't /want/ to be (which, ironically, lying to Felicity did exactly that).

 

I'm probably thinking way too much into this. I'm not at all on Oliver's side on this. I hate Oliver not trusting his relationship with Felicity to overcome this. I hate that the honesty part of their relationship has been thrown out the window. It's not the couple I've come to love to be honest. Will Oliver be redeemable? I suppose. We still have a long way to go this season. My greatest hope is for the show to let Oliver/Felicity deal with this issue ASAP. I still love this couple. But man. The show really damaged it. 

 

Never trust the writers ever again. 

 

We simply can't have nice things. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by wonderwall

[Lady Calypso]

That is EXACTLY Season 3 ALL OVER AGAIN.  He was worried about being distracted.  He did completely shitty, lying, manipulative things for what he thought were fine reasons.  He had a sad kicked puppy look on his face while he did those shitty things.  WHY ARE THEY DOING IT ALL OVER AGAIN?!?

 

And I agree. It's stupid and I hate it. I guess, in this particular case, I get his POV? I don't agree with it, but I get it. Barry should have probably toned it down on the whole 'we all die because you and Felicity break up due to something about a kid and she finds out...so it's kinda your fault? But don't worry!' attitude. He's being totally selfish once more and overthinking things. But Barry didn't give him all the information because he didn't have all the information either. It was just miscommunication that led to Oliver thinking that A+B+C=D. 

[SleepDeprived]

After reading a LOT of the reactions all over right now, I completely understand why The CW/WB/EPs decided to cancel that Legends of Flarrow crossover event they had planned a couple of weeks back. Special Effects still needed tweaking, my ass! Hah! Instead of hyping people for the crossovers, it would've just caused people to, more likely, not tune in and skip the episodes. They knew that their little ~dramatic twist of Barry doing that time travel reset and Oliver regressing to secrets and lies wouldn't be received well. *sigh* These frakking showrunners, man. It's, like, they refuse to break away from plot-induced stupidities.

[Chaser]

I can understand both their sides. I really can work out their reactions.

 

I'm just so pissed off they went there at all.

 

And I don't care about anything else that happened in that episode. 

 

ETA: I lied. I can't handle him cuddling with her like he just got away with everything. Esp after what she just said to him. He should have been hesitant and ashamed.

 

They better kill Laurel to make this up to me.

Edited December 3, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Lantern7]

We didn't get any agita from Quentin. That's gotta count for something, right?

 

I'm okay with the "Legends" crossover, because I watch both shows. That said . . . tell her, Oliver. Seriously. Tell Felicity about William. Also: I'm thinking of making a t-shirt with the kid's picture on it with the caption, "Fuck it, I'm calling him 'Conner'." Anybody want to buy that?

 

Annnnnnnnd Malcolm can't leave well enough alone. I'm betting LoT happens because he just wanted a knick-knack to place on a mantle.

 

Cisco handled Kendra's "developments" a lot better than I would have. Poor guy. At least he's still has Lisa has an option.

[tennisgurl]

 

I thought it was pretty cool that Captain Cold had an action figure.

I bet he LOVES the fact that he has an action figure. I bet he actually went out a bought a whole bunch of them, with his own money, and puts them around his lair. 

[NumberCruncher]

Personally I can't wait for the condescending Tumblr responses we're most assuredly going to get from Trollenheim about all this in 3...2...1...

[nksarmi]

I think what I disliked about Felicity first reaction (aside from the fact that it was there for Barry to witness to tell Oliver so he feels some justification to not tell her in the new timeline - because I think he would have the first time).....

 

is that yes, Felicity gets mad and says mean things, but she is not without empathy and she is not selfish.  Her reaction was very Laurel - she made it all. about. her.  Oliver clearly (he doesn't say it outright but he implies it and she is smart she add 2 (shaken up when they get to Central City) plus 2 (has Barry run a paternity test) and come up with 4 (Oliver just found out) did not know this more than a short time and was still processing.  He is so shaken up by it that she KNOWS something is "off" about him.  So the obvious conclusion is that some girl Oliver knew a long time ago had his kid and never told him.  That is a huge thing to get hit with and all Felicity did in that fight was make it about how he didn't trust her, how he didn't love her.  And that is not Felicity.

 

Felicity would have asked questions, would have wanted to know something about the kid, the kid's mom, how old the kid was, etc.... She might have overloaded Oliver with questions and she might have been bitchy if he didn't answer her fast enough - but she would not have pulled a Laurel and made it all about herself and tell him he never loved her - not over that.

[Morrigan2575]

We didn't get any agira from Quentin. That's gotta count for something, right?

I'm okay with the "Legends" crossover, because I watch both shows. That said . . . tell her, Oliver. Seriously. Tell Felicity about William. Also: I'm thinking of making a t-shirt with the kid's picture on it with the caption, "Fuck it, I'm calling him 'Conner'." Anybody want to buy that?

Annnnnnnnd Malcolm can't leave well enough alone. I'm betting LoT happens because he just wanted a knick-knack to place on a mantle.

Cisco handled Kendra's "developments" a lot better than I would have. Poor guy. At least he's still has Lisa has an option.

I wondered if maybe Malcolm was trying to use the ashes to figure out immortality since he no longer has the Pit

[Angel12d]

Seriously though, this episode just made me feel like they're ruining Olicity on purpose. I hope I'm wrong but this is not good. Good job, show. You ruined it.

[GirlvsTV]

I hated it.

And I honestly feel dumb for ever having trusted these writers again after the mess that was season 3, but I really thought they had learned from their plot-driven character mistakes. Obviously not.

I haven't really been enjoying this season much, other than Oliver and Felicity and the handful of OG Team Arrow moments, so that last minute of the crossover might be it for me. I don't want to watch stupid relationship angst that gets dragged out for the rest of the season. One thing s3 proved for me was that this show does not work when Felicity and Oliver - and Diggle - are at odds for long periods of time. The chemistry is just way off for me so I don't see this resolving in a way that makes me want to continue watching. Either Felicity finds out and is rightfully pissed Oliver lied to her face or Oliver continues to lie to her face which ruins any interactions they have in future eps. Whichever version we get holds no interest for me.

[bijoux]

Is this Earth Six? Everything just sounds like whaaaat? I guess I'll be angry once I see the episode (that cuddling scene sounds really reminiscent of Oliver pulling the same crap with Laurel when Samantha got pregnant and thereby repulsive), but right now nothing makes sense to me.

I've read comments on Twitter that Malcolm is a monster. Now that makes sense. What did he do?

Samantha honestly sounds like the worst. From what I'm getting, this wasn't a good episode for anyone but she is seriously the worst. I really wouldn't mind if she ended up in that grave now. And it turned out William was actually Robert's kid and she's Darhk's daughter and is a villain. Or, OR William is actually Billy Slade who for some reason doesn't age or something and this is all just a big trap.

I do not get the choice to use time travel and then to top it off by making things worse once it's done. Sure, there may have been fighting initially, but at least Felicity knew. I mean, Oliver is never supposed to tell Thea either?

[Tazmania]

It was that one rare Arrow episode where Laurel was like the 8th worst thing after Malcolm Merlyn, Vandal Savage, the Hawks, time travel, Oliver's blackmailing basic bitch baby mama, Oliver's evil spawn and Oliver's lying cheating self. 

 

FELICITY DESERVED BETTER! 

[foreverevolving]

Fuck this bullshit!!

 

Why!!! why would you taint this relationship like that?!

and i'm talking about Oliver having a kid, I'm okay with that (honestly with his pre-island life style there has to be more out there!) but with Oliver lying to Felicity.. just...

 

I stayed awake (literally had to force myself) to watch this crap of an episode, after being up since 4am, with a total of 8-ish hours of sleep in the last three days.

I had to sit through KC shitty condescending - as if i'm talking to a 5 year old- delivery, Oliver being stupid causing Barry to be stupid, causing Felicity to be stupid, Samantha being wayyyy to protective, like Telenovela style idioticy.. which caused Oliver to be stupid the second time around.

 

Pluto blass Malcolm Marlyn and Thea for possibly being the two only saving grace of this episode..

 

Also did anyone find felicity side-look at the end a bit odd? like she was keeping something from Oliver?

 

Also Barry has a side door to his lab? cause Felicity came through the front just as Oliver was exiting the side/back door.. Oooookay.

 

 

God Damn it show, we were doing so well!!! haven't felt such rage since Sara's death. too tired to locate the correct gif's to showcase my rage.

Edited December 3, 2015 by foreverevolving

[Angel12d]

It was that one rare Arrow episode where Laurel was like the 8th worst thing after Malcolm Merlyn, Vandal Savage, the Hawks, time travel, Oliver's blackmailing basic bitch baby mama, Oliver's evil spawn and Oliver's lying cheating self. 

 

FELICITY DESERVED BETTER! 

 

Yeah. Felicity got shafted. They kinda threw her under the bus in this episode. I'm FURIOUS.

[apinknightmare]

Yeah. Felicity got shafted. They kinda threw her under the bus in this episode. I'm FURIOUS.

 

It's baffling too, because I was on Oliver's side during the first argument and then he was an actual shit heel at the end, cuddling up to her like that while keeping the biggest secret ever, like that hasn't come back to bite him A THOUSAND TIMES? 

 

I want to be on Oliver's side, but goodness...it's impossible.

[jay741982]

Fuck this bullshit!!

 

Why!!! why would you taint this relationship like that.

 

I stayed awake (literally had to force myself) to watch this crap of an episode, after being up since 4am, with a total of 8-ish hours of sleep in the last three days.

I had to sit through KC shitty condescending - as if i'm talking to a 5 year old- delivery, Oliver being stupid causing Barry to be stupid, causing Felicity to be stupid, Samantha being wayyyy to protective, like Telenovela style idioticy.. which caused Oliver to be stupid the second time around.

 

Pluto blass Malcolm Marlyn and Thea.

 

Also did anyone find felicity side-look at the end a bit odd? like she was keeping something from Oliver?

 

Also Barry has a side door to his lab? cause Felicity came through the front just as Oliver was exiting the side/back door.. Oooookay.

 

 

God Damn it show, we were doing so well!!! haven't felt such rage since Sara's death. too tired to locate the correct gif's to showcase my rage.

Felicity might think Oliver is keeping something from her

[BkWurm1]

Felicity might think Oliver is keeping something from her

She knows he is keeping something from her.  I can't reconcile the person that freaked and walked away because he must not trust her and the person willing to let him not tell her what was going on. 

[Angel12d]

It's baffling too, because I was on Oliver's side during the first argument and then he was an actual shit heel at the end, cuddling up to her like that while keeping the biggest secret ever, like that hasn't come back to bite him A THOUSAND TIMES? 

 

I want to be on Oliver's side, but goodness...it's impossible.

 

I know. It started out well with him admitting that there was something to tell but he needed to figure it out first. Fine. She accepted that. Great. That felt in character and fitting for Olicity.

 

But then it just went so very wrong. 

[Lady Calypso]

Urg, you know what I wish would have happened? Felicity not finding out through Barry, but through following Oliver to Baby Mama's house, seeing him with said kid and baby mama, confronting him in the yard, discovering that he's lying and then getting mad over that while NOT finding out about said kid. At least then, the break up would have made more sense to me. Maybe she would have presumed Oliver had a kid (after digging around maybe?), presumed he has been lying to her for years and then the break up in the original timeline wouldn't have been so eye-roll worthy. I know at this point, it wouldn't have made a difference, but I think it would have worked better for me, personally. 

[Trini]

So about the Hawks:

I'm waiting until Legends to see if Ciara/Hawkgirl is any better over there. I did like her interactions with Cisco. Hawkman wasn't bad to me, just very one-note; also I didn't really feel any chemistry between him and his "soulmate", so that doesn't bode well.

[Primal Slayer]

They really should've covered up Kendras boobs like they did in the concept art. Im just automatically drawn to it in the group shot.

[jay741982]

I really hope that Proposal is a dream Sequence.

FU Oliver

[catrox14]

Why, show? Why do you insist on destroying Oliver Queen?  Why do you want me to hate the main character? Why do you literally kill him and make him a stupid asshole for NO GOOD REASON? Why are you regressing his character like this?

 

Fuckwits.

[AyChihuahua]

And I agree. It's stupid and I hate it. I guess, in this particular case, I get his POV? I don't agree with it, but I get it. Barry should have probably toned it down on the whole 'we all die because you and Felicity break up due to something about a kid and she finds out...so it's kinda your fault? But don't worry!' attitude. He's being totally selfish once more and overthinking things. But Barry didn't give him all the information because he didn't have all the information either. It was just miscommunication that led to Oliver thinking that A+B+C=D. 

I mean, I understood his POV in S3, too.  And he's not just not telling her right this minute...the battle is over.  They won.  He still didn't tell her.  It doesn't seem that he tells her anytime soon.  That's not just awful, it's incredibly stupid.  If he thinks she dumps him bc he didn't tell her in 24 hours, does he think, what, lying to her more, lies piled on lies, for MORE TIME is going to make her less mad?

Edited December 3, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Chaser]

The problem with writing angst Olicity is you have to write against character. They literally set themselves up for this to come across as OOC. 

 

Ep 4x01 to 4x07(plus The Flash episode) established a strong, healthy, honest, MATURE romantic relationship. 4x06 underlined it with an exclamation point. 

 

This episode makes no sense.

[benteen]

I did like the new settings for this episode.  Felt like a breath of fresh air.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I think that this episode is just more proof that CW actors/actresses don't have much clout when it comes to storylines, because I can't see SA going along with this asinine development if he had any say whatsoever.  Guy knows he's going to be ripped to shreds, right?

[jay741982]

The problem with writing angst Olicity is you have to write against character. They literally set themselves up for this to come across as OOC. 

 

Ep 4x01 to 4x07(plus The Flash episode) established a strong, healthy, honest, MATURE romantic relationship. 4x06 underlined it with an exclamation point. 

 

This episode makes no sense.

This^^^^ it's so stupid!! S3 FUCKING SUCKED cause of BS Angst that was unneeded and Unwanted!! Yet it got good ratings so Writers probably think we want this angst WRONG. I don't mind Angst if it's not the BS we saw tonight. Olicity is a golden Goose for them why try to ruin it! It makes no Goddamn sense!

[apinknightmare]

I think that this episode is just more proof that CW actors/actresses don't have much clout when it comes to storylines, because I can't see SA going along with this asinine development if he had any say whatsoever.  Guy knows he's going to be ripped to shreds, right?

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's why he hasn't seemed all that enthusiastic about the crossover. 

[AyChihuahua]

ETA: I lied. I can't handle him cuddling with her like he just got away with everything. Esp after what she just said to him. He should have been hesitant and ashamed.

 

They better kill Laurel to make this up to me.

Plus the cuddling post-baby mama drama is a total callback to him cuddling with Laurel.  So basically, Oliver/Felicity = Oliver/Laurel now.

[jay741982]

I think that this episode is just more proof that CW actors/actresses don't have much clout when it comes to storylines, because I can't see SA going along with this asinine development if he had any say whatsoever.  Guy knows he's going to be ripped to shreds, right?

Someone on here mentioned he's been Slient on Social Media. And if my Twitter TL is any indication He will be hearing a LOT of complaints

[Advance35]

Also I'm at a table alone in that I really liked that last scene between Oliver and Felicity.   I have know doubt that Oliver loves her and is IN love with her, but he makes stupid choices.   

 

The information IS still pretty new to Oliver.  I don't know.  It doesn't have me seeing red like everyone else.

 

is that yes, Felicity gets mad and says mean things, but she is not without empathy and she is not selfish.  Her reaction was very Laurel - she made it all. about. her.  Oliver clearly (he doesn't say it outright but he implies it and she is smart she add 2 (shaken up when they get to Central City) plus 2 (has Barry run a paternity test) and come up with 4 (Oliver just found out) did not know this more than a short time and was still processing.  He is so shaken up by it that she KNOWS something is "off" about him.  So the obvious conclusion is that some girl Oliver knew a long time ago had his kid and never told him.  That is a huge thing to get hit with and all Felicity did in that fight was make it about how he didn't trust her, how he didn't love her.  And that is not Felicity.

 

 

I'm not sure I agree.   I think Felicity can have a  very visceral reaction when things go "off script" or something she perceives as wrong is happening.  I think her better nature will usually win out but that initial gut reaction can be "not pretty".   I think what bothered Felicity in the first timeline (Oy) is that Oliver went to Barry for help in getting the DNA test.   I can understand why Oliver did, but I can also understand why Felicity would expect him to come to her.   Shrug.

 

I'm interested in how the writers intend to resolve this.   I hope the writers let Felicity express disappointment in the fact that Barry knew (when this all comes out).

[catrox14]

He cuddled up to Laurel like the douche he was when he kept the pregnancy a secret. I guess it makes sense he'd cuddle up to Felicity like the fucking douche he is while keeping this a secret.

 

Except he's NOT the same douche and I fucking resent the fuck out of the show for regressing him back to that stupid douche. It's absurd.

[Angel12d]

So basically, Oliver/Felicity = Oliver/Laurel now.

 

YOU TAKE THAT BACK.

 

Come on now. Let's not go too crazy! He hasn't cheated on her repeatedly, he hasn't got another woman pregnant while they're together. He hasn't repeatedly lied to her (okay yes, this is a big lie but work with me here). And he hasn't stuck his dick in her sister. There is no comparison. 

[jay741982]

Plus the cuddling post-baby mama drama is a total callback to him cuddling with Laurel.  So basically, Oliver/Felicity = Oliver/Laurel now.

Never compare them to that Monstrosity!! LOL still love ya though

[Trini]

I did like the new settings for this episode.  Felt like a breath of fresh air.

 

Daylight. Look into it, show.

----

 

On another positive note, I liked Barry's 'I could super-speed-hug you anyway, so bring it in!' They should hang out more.

[wonderwall]

YOU TAKE THAT BACK.

 

Come on now. Let's not go too crazy! He hasn't cheated on her repeatedly, he hasn't got another woman pregnant while they're together. He hasn't repeatedly lied to her (okay yes, this is a big lie but work with me here). And he hasn't stuck his dick in her sister. There is no comparison. 

 

Don't forget, he didn't throw Felicity's issues in her face like Oliver did with Laurel's alcoholism, he never manhandled her like he did with Laurel in Canaries... I'm sure there are more lol

[catrox14]

 

I did like the new settings for this episode.  Felt like a breath of fresh air.

 

I was totally distracted by the new setting of the farm because I'm 99.9% sure it's the same one they used in the 2nd episode of Supernatural this season. It drove me crazy LOL.

 

 

So basically, Oliver/Felicity = Oliver/Laurel now.

 

Whoaaa man, too far!!!

Edited December 3, 2015 by catrox14

[hogwash]

Plus the cuddling post-baby mama drama is a total callback to him cuddling with Laurel.  So basically, Oliver/Felicity = Oliver/Laurel now.

That first confrontation between them was totally Laurel/Oliver. Let it go, show. They sucked and completely fucked up your plans. 

 

Anyway, the moment he saw the kid at the end of the Flash episode he would have told Felicity. Especially after S03 and the first couple of S04 episodes. This OOC characters for the sake of angst that no one wants to see. 

 

Who actually liked Oliver/Felicity in S03? Oliver/Felicity had amazing momentum going from the S02 and the S02 finale. And they destroyed it one episode into the next season and replaced it with an utterly garbage and contrived dynamic. After the backlash and hate that Oliver/Felicity got in S03, these couple of episodes practically fixed it. And they wreck it. Again. I don't understand why??

Edited December 3, 2015 by hogwash

[apinknightmare]

Also I'm at a table alone in that I really liked that last scene between Oliver and Felicity.   I have know doubt that Oliver loves her and is IN love with her, but he makes stupid choices.   

 

The information IS still pretty new to Oliver.  I don't know.  It doesn't have me seeing red like everyone else.

 

But he told her that what was bothering him didn't matter anymore because it was over. Which was clearly a lie, because he told the kid he wanted to come back and spend more time with him. She could not have given him a bigger, more forgiving door to walk through, and it's not like Samantha bugged him to know if he actually kept his stupid promise. He had the perfect opportunity to tell her with minimal consequences, and lied about it. Snuggling up to her like he didn't have a care in the world was gross. 

[Angel12d]

I need to step away from my Olicity rage/disappointment for a moment to say the Egyptian flashbacks were legit TERRIBLE and I cringed so hard watching them. So many white people for ancient Egypt. Uh, show. Please get it right.

 

And the Hawks and VS didn't improve whatsoever so nope. That's a no for LoT for me. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by Angel12d

[tarotx]

I wish Oliver had the maturity he wants to have. He's this man who keeps things in or peaces out cause he doesn't handle emotional stress. He's very weak emotionally. He definitely isn't ready to be someone's fiancé. I really really really hope that doesn't happen anytime soon. Definitely no maturity here. Oliver allows his fears and enotional stress to rule his decisions. No growth at all.

Oliver is back to allowing others or stress to decide his life just to keep angst low but inadvertently making it sky rocket. Like with Laurel and the apartment-It's the baby mama now.

Oliver steps out when stressed. Rather it's cheating or lying, he still isn't fully present in his relationship.

I do wish Felicity wouldn't get over the top mad. The creatives need to have her dial it down a bit. Then again she spent all summer not telling Oliver she wanted more so she doesn't trust Oliver. With good reason. Oliver is emotionally not even in the ballpark of mature. Oliver's a good guy until emotionally stressed. Felicity needs to say no if Oliver ask her to marry him. They aren't even close to ready. For Felicity's own peace I want Laural to introduce her to Ted Grant's boxing Gym. Felicity needs to release her tension more often.

Olicity was good this season but then again it was good. Oliver does good times well. It's emotional stress he doesn't handle well. I wish he could trust his "peace" and communicate with Felicity and with the baby mama as well.

Edited December 3, 2015 by tarotx

[BkWurm1]

Also I'm at a table alone in that I really liked that last scene between Oliver and Felicity.   I have know doubt that Oliver loves her and is IN love with her, but he makes stupid choices.   

 

The information IS still pretty new to Oliver.  I don't know.  It doesn't have me seeing red like everyone else.

 

 

I'm not sure I agree.   I think Felicity can have a  very visceral reaction when things go "off script" or something she perceives as wrong is happening.  I think her better nature will usually win out but that initial gut reaction can be "not pretty".   I think what bothered Felicity in the first timeline (Oy) is that Oliver went to Barry for help in getting the DNA test.   I can understand why Oliver did, but I can also understand why Felicity would expect him to come to her.   Shrug.

 

I'm interested in how the writers intend to resolve this.   I hope the writers let Felicity express disappointment in the fact that Barry knew (when this all comes out).

If I thought this wasn't going to be resolved in the very worst way, I wouldn't be that mad.  I don't doubt that Oliver loves her and trusts her or that Felicity loves him and would be willing to support him through anything but this mess is the tip of the iceberg.  The only thing I can hope is they rip the bandage off fast, let everything blow up and then work at fixing things.   

[Actionmage]

I wonder if Cold is going to demand royalties from his action figure.

 

 

You know he has some lawyer eager to help out on that front. Just because he's a criminal, doesn't mean unauthorized folks get to profit from his likeness. *g*

But Barry didn't give him all the information because he didn't have all the information either. It was just miscommunication that led to Oliver thinking that A+B+C=D.

 

Oliver needed to take his own advice from last night: "This is why we ask questions." Push Barry for what exactly he knows about the fight between Felicity and himself. If he's sure Barry isn't just holding back, then Oliver might have been able to chill out about the fight, while still being Confident, Different-Strategy Man.

 

Is it me, or does Vandal look like Captain Lance's cousin? We never saw them in the same room together. xD  I enjoyed Savage's accent; it was new enough to my ear, so it was fun to hear.

 

Question: Why did no one pick up the blood-dripping arrow with Savage's blood on it? Since you have Caitlin around, why not have her go after a bio-angle to takedown/take out Vandal, if not just slow him enough to buy Our Heroes some time? In case the tech or the mystic stuff ran into snags? ( See: first time line.)  My head cannon has Malcolm sneak back, like he did at the end, and grab it up. For Science.

 

The farmhouse, and Marvel  hat tip, was nice. At first, I was hoping it was where Clarissa and Martin maybe moved to, since Firestorm is still probably being hunted. Oh well.

 

If the writers aren't going to write for all of the characters they are shoehorning into the crossovers, then quit shoving  10 pounds of heroes into a two pound sack?  I almost would have preferred Dig and Thea to have not come along and was unhappy that Caitlin was sidelined so hard.  I did like Laurel's inclusion because, while Savage has faced sonic weapons/ powers before (probably), he most likely wasn't expecting it, so the surprise  of the Cry was smart, imo. It didn't have to be the knockout blow, but- as it did- kept Savage busy and as off-kilter as they could.

 

It was mostly enjoyable, but what was stinky was ... drunk monkeys with typewriters after reading S3 Arrow scripts?

Edited December 3, 2015 by Actionmage

[wonderwall]

Devil's advocate:

 

 

I'll play Devil's advocate and say that Oliver may actually have damn good reason not to tell her? All Barry ever said was that she broke up with him when she found out about his son. To any sane man as insecure as he is, that would sound a hell of a lot like she left him BECAUSE of that, even if he should know better. He's just learned that Barry was right about everything else, so why would he doubt this nugget? X

[inconstancy]

Oh, greaaat, Oliver goes back to being an idiot. There's nothing I love more than a character never learning from their mistakes!

 

That Oliver/Felicity fight in the deleted timeline... At first, I thought Oliver made a good point about needing a moment to process it all, but then he told her he didn't know when he would have told her about the kid? I took that to mean "never", or at least, "not until the obligatory contrived storyline where my kid develops some life-threatening condition and needs my blood or an organ or some shit".

 

There was pretty much no logic about Samantha and her conditions at all. As already pointed out, most of what she said made little sense unless she suspects/knows he's the Green Arrow. And making a crack about him impregnating young girls? And not allowing him to tell his partner, even though that's the sort of thing that could destroy a relationship? Or at least showing sympathy about it? Not a nice person. If it didn't mean that William would probably end up going to Oliver by default, I'd hope she was the one in the grave.

 

I felt nothing for the Hawks storyline and the flashbacks were embarrassing. Kendra was boring and Carter seemed like he was back with her out of obligation. Seriously, I kept waiting for a hint of longing or wistfulness or pain regarding her apparently not remembering him for the 205th (206th?) time, and there was nothing. But maybe it's because the actor just sucks.

 

Was Vandal Savage's grudge against the Hawks because of unrequited love? Lame. I hope DD stays being evil just because, and not because of some lost love or something. I'm sick of people being motivated by love or loss or both. How about being motivated by ambition or your own wish to be self-fulfilled?

 

Does Barry's ominous warning about time travel mean Felicity will somehow get hurt/die because of Oliver not telling her about his kid? Hooray, more things for Oliver to feel guilty about.

 

I feel like if it wasn't for the fact that this is the literally the only show I watch (although I keep meaning to go back to Sleepy Hollow now that The Worst Part of the First Two Seasons is dead), I'd be dropping it right now. That's how disappointed and annoyed I am by this Oliver/Felicity storyline. I don't even care if it gets fixed in the next episode or two; the fact that it's even come up bugs me a lot.

 

Thanks, writers. I hope you all get coal in your stockings this year.

Edited December 3, 2015 by inconstancy

[apinknightmare]

Devil's advocate:

 

That's exactly what Oliver originally thought. But then Barry went back and told him that fucking with time messes everything up, and he would be stupid to keep that secret. And what did he do? 

 

The stupid thing, of course. 

[bethy]

What I'm puzzling over is how anyone thought this Oliver lie was a good idea. I mean so much of the press they've gotten so far this season has been people marveling at how well they've presented a happy, mature relationship between two adults.

Had they already decided to have this be the storyline and thought no one would notice? We're they cackling and rubbing their hands together thinking how clever they were going to be throwing a spanner in the works? We're they all, "Oh crap, we're going to screw that up - Oh well!"? What were they thinking?

Plus, no one is talking about the spin-off this episode was supposed to help launch. They've managed to mostly detail any buzz about the two characters that this episode helped introduce. Though come to think of it, maybe that's why.

[Coop33]

I hated so much about the things this episode chose to be.

 

So I guess the consequence of changing the timeline was that Oliver had to revert back to his dumb S3 self? I don't know that I've ever been more mad at him than I was tonight. He should know better now, or else what was the point of everything he's been through this season? Everything to do with the kid and Mom was so contrived, unnecessary, and unbelievable. I guess I should know better than to think these writers are capable of writing compelling, organic, and realistic drama. I hope the secret about the kid comes out quickly, because the longer Oliver keeps it to himself the hard it's going to be for me (and probably Felicity) to forgive him.

 

The only things I can think of that I really enjoyed were Barry/Oliver and Thea, who is MVP of the crossover for me.