S04.E08: Legends Of Yesterday (2)

[Chaser]

Unpopular opinion: I didn't care much for the acting in the fight. SA and EBR just seemed off.

[AudienceofOne]

Well that was a really stupid ending to a really stupid episode in a really stupid crossover. And for eternity, people who watch one of the shows will be forced to watch a random episode of the other to find out what happened. And then they will wish they didn't. Because of the stupid.

 

And just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, we got the "Oliver and Felicity break up over the most pointless lie ever" followed by the "Oliver and Felicity will still break up over the most pointless lie ever, just not yet" scene at the end.

 

Thanks show. And since this entire thing was a big fuck you to all the viewers, fuck you back!

[BkWurm1]

Me: What is that?

Is that a donkey?

That's a donkey!

What was it doing??

Why is there donkey back there?

They can afford to have random donkeys in the background of shots?

Where did they film this??

During the first Hawk training?

[Password]

Unpopular opinion: I didn't care much for the acting in the fight. SA and EBR just seemed off.

Probably because the scene was off.

[EmeraldArcher]

HAHAHAHA!!

Thank you so much for that! I really needed the laugh! Literally hooted!

ETA: The Butt Clench!

Edited December 3, 2015 by EmeraldArcher

[Angel12d]

I didn't really mind the first fight, although it progressed WAY too quickly and I don't think the S4 Felicity would have jumped to that place so fast. But I didn't actually see it as a breakup? I saw it as a major problem and they'd have to come back to it after the battle to talk about it more and then...yeah, maybe they would have broken up. Hard to say. But four sentences and walking away? After all that time together? Nah. So add that to the pile of stupid, that the Breakup Which Was Foretold didn't actually occur.

 

I agree. I didn't see it as a break-up but more like another one of Felicity's 'I need some air' moments. It easily could have headed for a break-up though but it also could have been rectified with an honest talk. 

[scarynikki12]

b) how exactly did she know about ancient Egypt getting hit by meteor swarms?

 

She knows things.

[catrox14]

HAHAHAHA!!

Thank you so much for that! I really needed the laugh! Literally hooted!

 

I'm wondering if the butt clench is the new Oliver finger touching nervous thing now. I almost want it to become a running gag.

[Chaser]

She knows things.

Stuff. Things.

[Morrigan2575]

During the first Hawk training?

When Kendra/Carter are taking and Cisco tries to interrupt. The donkey in the background was as bored as I was and tried to escape

[Trini]

ETA: I'm pretty sure that the donkey just lives there normally and Arrow figured it would be a nice touch to have a donkey in the background, which was all great until the donkey climbed through the fence and I wanted to know where it was going. 

 

No, yeah; I don't think they planned it; it just happened to happen in the take they decided to use. But maybe next time make sure they are no loose animals on set!

[EmeraldArcher]

Did anyone else thank Google for double-sided tape in the FB? Hawkgirl had the ladies out and was dangerously close to a wardrobe malfunction!

[Jediknight]

I bet he LOVES the fact that he has an action figure. I bet he actually went out a bought a whole bunch of them, with his own money, and puts them around his lair. 

Are we talking about Cold or Wentworth Miller?  Because given how much fun he has playing Cold, I could see him buying a bunch of the Cold figures and Funko Pops.

[catrox14]

I felt like it was insult to injury that Oliver

 

1) Was told by Baby Mama that he can't see William unless he promises to not tell anyone

2) William's room was full of Flash posters.  Harsh show...just harsh...

[wonderwall]

IDK how this is possible...

 

But tumblr and twitter are calming me down about this arc.

[Lantern7]

Two more things . . .

 

1. Completely missed the donkey. My mother likes 'em, probably because I remind her of Eeyore. Has the donkey been GIFed yet?

 

2. Anybody else put off by Vandal Savage being tied in so closely to the Hawks? For one thing, he should be the ultimate survivor, not just a priest from Ancient Egypt. For another . . . how does killing the Hawks keep him alive? And why?? If he killed the Ancient Hawks, wouldn't his evil be sated?

[statsgirl]

IDK how this is possible...

 

But tumblr and twitter are calming me down about this arc.

Having your feelings and perceptions validated is a powerful thing.  (Also an important technique to get someone to make a change.)

 

Also the kid isn't dead. Or a metahuman. That kinda sucks.

How much fun that could have been, if he were a metahuman.  It would also given Samantha a real reason to keep Oliver away (in case he found out) instead of the pissy ones she produced.

 

I'm with Felicity and I don't see where she said anything mean.  Oliver hid the plan to catch Slade from her,  she rolled with it. Oliver didn't share the plan to get Ra's with her, Felicity forgave him. I can't really fault her for being done with his lies. When he had chances in this episode to tell her to prove he has changed he failed.

Yes.  If you look at it like that, it's a pretty normal problem.  He's used to keeping secrets from the people he cares about; she's lived through three years of that and had thought that he had changed now that not only were they on the same team, they were life partners as well.

 

Too bad the writers had to make everything go 'splodey.

[wonderwall]

Okay... Calming down some more...

 

I actually do think if the writing was better I wouldn't have minded this arc and would've sympathized with Oliver... 

 

I know Oliver's between a rock and a hard place. I mostly got angry because the writers didn't give him a voice or any agency in this episode because they were busy with the LoT setup (which I'm officially bitter about because this is a huge storyline and should've been given more time to set up). THey didn't voice this desperation to keep Felicity or his kid in his life. They didn't voice why Oliver was doing what he was doing. Which is all VERY important. 

 

So it's not an "Oliver is a dick" issue because I thoroughly believe he's doing the best he can... I think it's a writing issue because they're not giving us his point of view. 

 

That being said... Now I'm morbidly curious how they're going to handle this arc. 

[Tazmania]

 

 

If there's a Mary Sue in this universe, It's Cisco.

 

This .... 

I am literally so done with his perfection. 

[apinknightmare]

How much fun that could have been, if he were a metahuman.  It would also given Samantha a real reason to keep Oliver away (in case he found out) instead of the pissy ones she produced.

 

Your kid has a guy you know to be a douchebag who makes questionable choices as a father, and the ONE condition that you make in order for him to have a relationship with his kid is that he keep said kid's existence SOUPER SEEKRIT from *everyone* in his life? A+ parenting, lady.

Edited December 3, 2015 by apinknightmare

[GirlvsTV]

Is it just me or did at least half of the dialog in both episodes involve someone entering a scene and dumping a massive load of exposition all over everything? And given that the exposition involved people saying things 'Khufu' ( which I kept hearing as 'tofu') and 'Staff of Horus' and 'Priestess' it made a big portion of both eps totally cringe-worthy to me. Especially the ancient Egyptian with the Danish(?) accent.

[jay741982]

IDK how this is possible...

 

But tumblr and twitter are calming me down about this arc.

What are they saying? Earlier I was seeing Fuck Oliver. He don't deserve Felicity! Way to ruin Olicity Writers. Etc etc which to be honest I've said the same things

[quarks]

Two more things . . .

 

1. Completely missed the donkey. My mother likes 'em, probably because I remind her of Eeyore. Has the donkey been GIFed yet?

 

2. Anybody else put off by Vandal Savage being tied in so closely to the Hawks? For one thing, he should be the ultimate survivor, not just a priest from Ancient Egypt. For another . . . how does killing the Hawks keep him alive? And why?? If he killed the Ancient Hawks, wouldn't his evil be sated?

 

1. Not sure if the donkey's been gifed yet, but its dramatic escape needs to be immortalized somewhere outside of the background of a Hawks scene.

 

2. See, this is another reason why I wish the episode had been able to breathe more. I have no idea how killing the Hawks keeps him alive. He seemed to be eating their breath or something?  (White smoke coming from their months?)  Which was related somehow to Horus?

[Tazmania]

He cuddled up to Laurel like the douche he was when he kept the pregnancy a secret. I guess it makes sense he'd cuddle up to Felicity like the fucking douche he is while keeping this a secret.

And this is why he ruined it ... 

I thought Felicity was different, she was special and that Oliver has changed but he pulled exactly the same crap with Felicity what he did with Laurel ten years ago. 

HE DID NOT DESERVE FELICITY'S WARMTH, LOVE AND COMPASSION. 

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

I hope that kid never finds that un-cashed check. How pissed would you be if your mom kept you from your dad and A MILLION DOLLARS. I would resent her every workday of my life.

[Password]

2. Each scene had been given just one or two more beats: Felicity saying that first Oliver didn't trust her about the LoA last year, and now this, and that they are supposed to be partners; extending the conversation between Barry and Oliver to make it clear what Oliver's choices were: a, staying out of the kid's life, b, getting involved in the kid's life, and telling Felicity about this, even though the last time he told Felicity about this, they had a huge fight, which ended up distracting him, which got people killed, or c, getting involved and not telling Felicity about this.

Without those beats, this took away focus from what I think the main issue was supposed to be: Oliver's twin fears that if he told Felicity a) she would break up with him, b) everyone would die, since those are the things that happened in the original timeline.

Unfortunately, since this all happened in an episode that was trying to set up another show, we really didn't get those beats. And it's a pity because otherwise, I liked the episode. Even the terrible Egyptian sets.

Wow these are fantastic points. I really wish they allowed Felicity to list a few of the secrets he kept from them because then I wouldn't have felt like "err Felicity where is this coming from?" She had entirely valid points, but considering the way they set up the relationship this season it seemed she was bringing things up that were resolved. And they were/are NOT resolved.

Feel better about that scene now.

The Hawkpeople story irritated me because I felt there were more important things happening i.e. Oliver's kid storyline. Now I'm even more put out by the Hawkpeople because the episode should've given more time to Arrow's storyline.

And this is why he ruined it ...

I thought Felicity was different, she was special and that Oliver has changed but he pulled exactly the same crap with Felicity what he did with Laurel ten years ago.

HE DID NOT DESERVE FELICITY'S WARMTH, LOVE AND COMPASSION.

You know what's even worse about that scene is how at peace he is. Like he dodged a bullet by LYING TO HER about this important part of his life. Someone pointed out the difference between Felicity and Oliver in that cuddle and it makes me feel sick.

[calliope1975]

You know what's even worse about that scene is how at peace he is. Like he dodged a bullet by LYING TO HER about this important part of his life. Someone pointed out the difference between Felicity and Oliver in that cuddle and it makes me feel sick.

 

That scene is all over my Dash - I even reblogged it - but it's gross. It's gross because of how blissful Oliver looks. Maybe that's SA bleeding through, but I don't understand how Oliver could feel so content and happy at that moment. There was no hint of uncertainty which is what I expected to see. I'd love to hear SA's thoughts on what Oliver is feeling here because all I'm seeing is a massive disrespect towards Felicity. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by calliope1975

[Chaser]

Are Thea and Felicity sharing clothes? The jacket with the leather sleeves? I swear Felicity wore that in S2.

[hogwash]

I'm calmer about this but it's hard for me to separate this from S03's bullshit.

 

I'm not surprised at baby momma. She sucks but she's consistent with it?? She never wanted Oliver anywhere near the kid. That hasn't changed even though Oliver has been back for 3 years and seems radically different from the douche she knew. The only reason she changes her tune is because Oliver forces her hand and she knows she holds all the cards. If he doesn't agree her terms, all she has to do is bar him from seeing William and tell him to take her to court. I get that Oliver wouldn't want to rock that boat because baby momma has proven aptly that she's a dick who will totally freaking do that. But Oliver is the one screwing up his relationship with the woman he wants to marry for this shit. So I needed more from his side.

 

They should have done more to emphasize that Oliver can't publicly claim the kid with Darhk lurking around. It's exactly the kind of leverage Darhk needs. The Green Arrow is barely an issue for Darhk. Oliver Queen running for mayor is. If there is even a hint that there's a secret kid and his mother out there, going after them is an easy way to get Oliver to quit the race. There's no way he can secretly fight Samantha for custody or visitation. So he basically has to put up with her bullshit if he wants to have contact or any kind of relationship with his son until Darhk is handled. 

 

bleh

[Angel12d]

That scene is all over my Dash - I even reblogged it - but it's gross. It's gross because of how blissful Oliver looks. Maybe that's SA bleeding through, but I don't understand how Oliver could feel so content and happy at that moment. There was no hint of uncertainty which is what I expected to see. I'd love to hear SA's thoughts on what Oliver is feeling here because all I'm seeing is a massive disrespect towards Felicity. 

 

I would have loved that scene any other time but it is tainted and I don't really understand why he was so blissful and smiley. IMO he should at least look a little more conflicted. I did wonder if SA was playing it that he was just so relieved that Felicity is still with him and in his life? I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case. 

[Password]

But the problem is, he could've agreed to not tell Felicity, but told Felicity anyway. Asking her to keep it hush hush wouldn't have been difficult.

It was just completely contrived. The writers could've made it about Darhk but they went cheap by making it about not telling Felicity.

[AudienceofOne]

I can't be annoyed at any of the characters involved because it was just so contrived. If Oliver was being a douch canoe because he can be a douche canoe that'd be ok. But this feels like soap level contrivance. All he had to say was, 'I won't tell anyone except Felicity because I'm not keeping something like that from my girlfriend' and that would be that. The end. This was just poor writing so, whatever.

As I said, the stupid. It burns.

[wonderwall]

I get that Oliver is an honorable man and would've liked to have kept his word by not telling anyone...

 

I just really wish that just this once, for the sake of his relationship, he would've acted unnaturally and told her and kept it a secret. 

[Chaser]

I don't think I would nearly as pissed at this storyline if not for Oliver's history with Laurel. Oliver lies to Laurel. He doesn't lie to Felicity. I hate that he put them in the same boat. Granted he lies to Laurel because she's Laurel and he doesn't care about her and he lied to Felicity because he loves her so much. It's still lying.

[hogwash]

But the problem is, he could've agreed to not tell Felicity, but told Felicity anyway. Asking her to keep it hush hush wouldn't have been difficult.

It was just completely contrived. The writers could've made it about Darhk but they went cheap by making it about not telling Felicity.

 

Yeah, I can't suss out a reason he wouldn't tell Felicity the moment he had his suspicions. 

[calliope1975]

I just realized this is the first time I haven't liked Oliver. I've thought he was a moron and has done dumb things. I thought he was douchey and jerky and a whole host of other unflattering adjectives, but I've always sympathized with him. I've always managed to see things from his point of view. Not here. 

 

So, well done there, Writers.

[thuganomics85]

Oh, wow, did this William plot turn out to be a clusterfuck.  First off, Mommy Berlin (sorry, Anna Hopkins will always be Berlin from the departed Defiance to me) may have legit concerns over bringing Oliver back into the kid's life, but seriously?  A "You can't tell anyone!  ANYONE!" ultimatum?  That is so dumb.  Only reason it is causing any drama is because Oliver is back to being an idiot, but really, what would stop him from telling Felicity anyway?  But, again, I just find it stupid.  I can understand her not wanting Oliver to tell the entire world, but not telling his family or close friends, seems low.  I mean, even looking pass Felicity, it sucks that Thea apparently can't find out she has a nephew, thanks to this woman.  I'm starting to not like this character.

 

But, anyway, that was only the appetizer for this disaster of a meal.  First, there was the pre-time travel fight.  I don't blame Felicity for being mad and Oliver really needed to hear a lot of it, but the whole development just felt off.  Like she went from zero to a hundred in a flash (not talking about you, Barry.)  I fell like Felicity would have been angry, but would have put more effort into letting him try to explain why he was hiding it from her.  Instead, it felt like even if he did tell her the truth right then and there, she was going to barrel over him.  I don't know; I just feel like while I do think this scene made sense on some levels, it was done in a way where I just didn't buy it.

 

In the end though, it doesn't matter, because after Oliver finds out the truth, he still lies anyway? Because he's apparently become an idiot again.  I just have no words now.  Talk about a major regression.  Are the writers just lazy?  Do they want end him and Felicity for good and, gulp, try and make Oliver/Laurel happen?  Or do they really just think this is "good drama", and want me to root for these crazy kids to work it out?  Because I'm just tired of it now.  Felicity deserves better and even Oliver deserves something good in his life, since everything else never seems to go his way.

 

Anyway, the main plot was just another case of setting things up for the Legends of Tomorrow spin-off.  I really hope they get pass all this soon, because both this show and The Flash seem to have taken hits lately.  I feel like Kendra and Hawk-bro have had more time this season then poor Diggle.

 

I continue to love the Oliver and Barry stuff at least.  Stephen Amell and Grant Gustin really do seem to have fun together.

 

Captain Cold having his own action figure really amused me.  I'm sure he collects them and anyone seen giving them away, will meet a chilly end.

 

Vandal Savage continue to not work for me.  His whole motivation boiling down to not being able to sex-up Kendra is stupid and cliched, and the actor is all over the place.  I swear, there were times I felt like he was trying to be Christoph Waltz, which made me laugh by thinking out insane the actual Christoph Waltz would be on this show.

 

I would feel more sorry for you, Cisco, if you haven't not just only got to make-out with Hawkgirl for weeks, but still have Golden Glider wanting to vibe with you.  I'm telling you, if they cross over to Supergirl, even Kara would somehow fall for him.  The ability to get famous female superheroes to fall for him seems to be his true superpower.

 

Can't wait for the mid-season finale and what new shitstorm Oliver will cause by being his normal dumb self.  Fucking hell, Oliver.

Edited December 3, 2015 by thuganomics85

[Chaser]

Gifsets are so enlightening. He should have been relieved she found out and took the choice from him. But he was defensive and kept moving away. He already made the choice not to tell her and she was calling him on it.

[Angel12d]

I was just about to say that this doesn't just affect his relationship with Felicity. It's once again lying to Thea too, who now has another blood relative she doesn't know about. It's just so cruel. 

[Moya the Leviathan]

which ass was more distracting? The donkey outside or the khakis in the living room? Ehh, it's a trick question, the real distracting asses are in the credits.

[EmilyBettFan]

Thuganomics85 they should've had Christoph Waltz be Vandal Savage. Now I'm just going to daydream that he is instead of this guy. Lol

[bijoux]

She knows things.

 

When it's appropriate. She did know about The Ominous Decade in S1. I was frankly more surprised she hadn't heard anything about the staff of Horus. Seemed like something she could know of.

How much fun that could have been, if he were a metahuman.  It would also given Samantha a real reason to keep Oliver away (in case he found out) instead of the pissy ones she produced.

 

Maybe he still is. Here's hoping so that anything about this makes some sort of sense. Otherwise it's just waiting for the other shoe to drop for dramas!

[Starfish35]

*sigh* ok.

Well I haven't read through this whole thread, so I'll apologize in advance if I'm repeating things others have said.

I actually thought it was mostly a pretty good episode. I thought overall it flowed better than yesterday's half. I still think last year's crossover was far better, but for the most part....not bad.

I really like Kendra. I think her costume looks ridiculous (sadly, this is one of those times where it looked better in the promo photo) but I like her and I'm looking forward to seeing her storyline develop on LoT.

Not so much Hawkman. We can lose him anytime now. And Vandal Savage is coming across far more as creepy icky old man than imposing scary villain. So that has dampened my enthusiasm for LoT considerably.

It's been interesting - up until this crossover, I thought Cisco and Kendra were pretty cute. But it's been getting on my nerves during these two episodes, and I'm not even sure I can say why. I think just something about Cisco's attitude about the whole thing has been irritating me.

Barry and Oliver foreverrrrrr! Seriously, those two are so great together. I do so enjoy their friendship. :)

Laurel.....was mostly not bad, because she mostly wasn't there. But I could've done without the "we all love you Felicity" line, and I couldn't believe they had her Canary Cry do absolutely nothing.

And of course the bad.

I haven't been someone who's been totally against the kid storyline. I was curious to see how they handled it. (And tbh I was looking forward to everyone finally getting clued in that, no, they are NOT Sandra and Connor Hawke.) And up to a point, I thought it was fine. But then they had to go and cross that line. I could understand Oliver wanting to get a handle on what was going on before talking to Felicity, and I understood Felicity getting upset about him keeping secrets again and lying to her. But then it so suddenly escalated into "you don't trust me - you never will" and that was a total "where the hell did that come from?" moment. And it made absolutely no sense that Samantha would demand that he keep it a secret from everyone, even Felicity. That was totally and utterly contrived. And I guess that's what annoying to me. I hate contrived drama and people doing ridiculous things just to create drama, not because it actually makes sense.

So....yeah. Not the best. Too bad. I considered last year's crossover to be among the best episodes of the season (although, all things considered, that was a rather low bar). This year, not so much.

I was rather unimpressed by the ending as well. I mean, WTF Malcolm? Seriously? But it wasn't the major shocker cliffhanger ending I was kind of expecting.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Starfish35

[thegirlsleuth]

I just went through and gave the thumbs up to almost every comment in the thread.  This episode pissed me off so much that I went and looked at the spoiler thread--handy thing, that!--to see who wrote this episode.  And it was Guggenheim with an assist from Berlanti.  And considering that my problems with this episode are a snapshot of my problems with season three, it all makes sense.  There was Oliver keeping secrets for no good reason, using cool superhero details to get out of any problems, and people acting OOC to serve plot.  Guggenheim is a hack.

 

I think what was so disappointing was that I had such hopes.  The writers had done such a good job with Oliver alone and Oliver and Felicity through the season, that I really thought that if they chose to have the kid be Oliver's, that it would be treated respectfully and maturely.  I can't believe that a guy that had given Felicity some space when she needed to work through some things, who humbled himself and continues to humble himself with Digg, and who worked with Laurel on solving the Sara problem instead of getting into a blame game would pull this stupidity. And then we get this, which is straight out of the season 3 playbook. And the end scene, I found myself skeeved by the physical affection because he was using it to lie.  Bah! The lie is so corrosive to me, as a viewer. 

 

But maybe we should expect this. Arrow slumped in 2.10 - 2.15, and 3.10 - end (which some brief good moments) and I'm wondering if they are good at setting up storylines and themes and not tying them together. At this point I'd believe them when they say they have no idea who's in the grave, because if they are true to past seasons they will be randomly jumping from melodramatic point to melodramatic point, characterization be damned. 

 

Also, I hated the Hawks. I REALLY hated the flashbacks.  

 

On the plus side, I continued to really enjoy Thea, Barry was delightful, I'm intrigued by Savage, and Oliver and Felicity's pants game was ON POINT.

[SleepDeprived]

I don't really have much to add anymore about what a disappointment this episode was. Then again, AT&T was the proud sponsor of the crossovers so that alone should've been a huge warning sign. Heh. (If anyone working high up for AT&T is reading these forums, thanks for giving monies to the show! You guys are still, quite often, the pizza burn on the roof of the world's mouth but thanks for your support! :) I do actually appreciate it and Arrow sure could use the monies for when I go over and pelt their offices and cars in Burbank with tomatoes and eggs.)

 

But I really should've known better than to expect something other than non-contrived and cliched angst because everytime I start to become a little complacent and begin to feel cautiously optimistic about certain storylines, everything just turns terrible. It happened with Sara's death, with the whole Oliver joining the LoA thing, with Sara's resurrection, now the baby mama drama...

 

I really wish I could enjoy that final scene with Oliver and Felicity. Because I was looking at gifs and, without any context, it is tooth-achingly sweet and such a nice moment. But it's tainted. By secretsss and liessss! Like most everything that will happen between them from here on out until Oliver tells her about the child or Felicity finds out.

 

This seriously sucks. And I've been, mostly, having a good time with S4. Ugh.

 

Really disappointed with Hawkman. He just gives off a very douchebaggy vibe (both in the flashbacks and present time). I've, also, gone from loving the idea of Hawkgirl in the Flarrow 'verse to just being slightly above meh about her. Where exactly did Savage stab her during their first death, by the way? It looked like he got her in the back/lung area. Shouldn't she have had been drowning in her blood and unable to speak clearly, let alone chant her prayer to Horus to save them?

 

The meh goes for Vandal Savage, too. Did not expect him to be as sleazy as he turned out to be. I really wish they didn't tie his immortality to the Hawks and just went with his real comic roots. What is it with these writers and revenging because of unrequited love as the root cause of villainy of their villains? Slade, Isabel Rochev, Ra's al Ghul (dude was totally hung up on Oliver)... Whatever happened to good old-fashioned lust for power and world domination? Man, I hope Damien Darhk turns out to be evil 'cause he just is. Be evil with loftier goals, Darhk, that's all I ask from you.

 

Also, Oliver must have the greatest detective-ing luck and the sharpest eyes ever that he was able to find that one single strand of hair to do a DNA test. William's cap fell onto the dusty street during a glaringly bright afternoon. A dusty street that looked like it was due for a street cleaning. And the solitary hair strand that Oliver just happened to get still just happened to be one with its root intact, too, which would make it viable for a paternity test. Like, what are the chances?!?

 

Stop calling Oliver "Ollie," Barry. It's weird. Your friendship with both Felicity and Oliver is still fantastic, though. I really like you when you're with them. When you're on your own show, not so much. Also, Thea's the best. She's the cutest vigilante and I really liked the little detail that, while everyone went and dispersed after Barry told them to clear out because he was blasting Savage with the blue glow, Thea was running towards Oliver and Barry to help instead. The Hawks had to fly her away from there. I don't know if that's the bloodlust that kept her adrenaline roaring for a fight or if she was really just determined to help but I thought it was a cool blink-and-you-miss-it moment.

[Genki]

It's really notable to me that the view counts in Olicity Queen's Youtube channel is low, gives a pretty definitive view on the reaction to this episode.

 

Some of the minuscule positives for me

 

- Felicity was not dumb, she knew something was up, she caught onto Barry fast and she recognised straight away what that DNA test meant. I also appreciate that she did not seem appeased by Oliver's platitudes in the end scene. 

 

- I liked Oliver's first confession that he was processing and that he wanted to tell Felicity, even though it was negated at the end.

 

- I like Oliver being allowed to lead, he does it well.

 

I did not like getting so much DRAMA with no proper POV for Oliver and to an extent Felicity (in the fight). 

 

I'm not sure why they introduced time travel on Arrow, initially I thought because it was a LOT set up and that is meant to be a big part of it, but now I wonder why introduce it unless they plan to use it again later in the season. Except for the dying I was happier with Felicity knowing rather than not knowing, I preferred the 1st timeline, but I prefer more grounded Arrow.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Genki

[looptab]

Deep breaths. Okay.

Hope is a terrible thing. I hoped until the last second that the kid wouldn't be Oliver's. I hoped that the secret Oliver had to keep that came up in early reviews was not the kid. But, no, they went with the most nonsense thing, again, so, again, why does Baby Mama care whether Oliver tells his girlfriend? Why does Oliver feel compelled to keep his word and doesn't just tell Felicity? It's not like Samantha would find out and keep him from seeing the kid. That makes absolutely no sense to me. And for a moment, at the end, when she was all "Felicity, what a nice name!" I thought she would be reasonable and -give him permission?- to tell her. Hahah, I'm an idiot.

Speaking of Barry. Was he telling Oliver to lie to Felicity or tell her?

I didn't quite understand Barry and Oliver's last conversation. Was Barry telling him to tell Felicity to not screw with the timeline anymore? Or vice versa? Was Oliver going to tell her until talking with Barry made him change his mind, or he had already decided he wasn't going to tell her and talking with Barry confirmed his decision?

Right, I mean, I thought it was obvious that that's what Oliver thought. But that doesn't make any sense, and if he knew Felicity the way I believe he does, he would know that. He would know there would have to be more to it than just "You have a kid?! Dude, I'm out." And if he doesn't think that, then WHY would he still want to be with her? That Felicity sounds awful!

This.

 

 

I'm wondering if the butt clench is the new Oliver finger touching nervous thing now. I almost want it to become a running gag.

We can't never unsee it now. Gah, wish I could find the other times I saw it, now I'm sure there's more, hahah.

 

That scene is all over my Dash - I even reblogged it - but it's gross. It's gross because of how blissful Oliver looks. Maybe that's SA bleeding through, but I don't understand how Oliver could feel so content and happy at that moment. There was no hint of uncertainty which is what I expected to see. I'd love to hear SA's thoughts on what Oliver is feeling here because all I'm seeing is a massive disrespect towards Felicity. 

I wish they had showed him being somehow conflicted, guilty, instead we have the awful parallel with the awful flashback and I hate it. 

 

Funnily enough I didn't hate the episode as a whole. I just love the thought of having this bunch of people holed up together,  I wish they had done more with it. I even liked the time travel, if not for the horrible repercussions. Loved Thea, Oliver+Barry, minimal Laurel, Malcolm. But what I loved the most was the donkey. MVP of the episode right there.

[bijoux]

I finally watched and on the whole, this episode really had too many people who did practically nothing. Dig, Thea, Laurel and Caitlin to be precise. They all appeared to be there just to deliver a line, be sent off on an errand and be toasted.

 

The flash backs were awful but also hilarious at the same time. I like your tongue! Ahahaha. And then they went rapey so ew.

 

Deep breaths. Okay.

Hope is a terrible thing. I hoped until the last second that the kid wouldn't be Oliver's. I hoped that the secret Oliver had to keep that came up in early reviews was not the kid. But, no, they went with the most nonsense thing, again, so, again, why does Baby Mama care whether Oliver tells his girlfriend? Why does Oliver feel compelled to keep his word and doesn't just tell Felicity? It's not like Samantha would find out and keep him from seeing the kid. That makes absolutely no sense to me. And for a moment, at the end, when she was all "Felicity, what a nice name!" I thought she would be reasonable and -give him permission?- to tell her. Hahah, I'm an idiot.

Actually, that part made me suspicious. Are they going to have Samantha go bonkers and either target Felicity in some way or deliberately tell her herself? I mean, if we're going for soap, let the bubbles emerge.

 

So, Oliver's been allowed to be smart for 7 episodes (8 if we count last night's Flash) and 10 minutes of this one. It was nice while it lasted? This was really just an awful storyline for a crossover. If it had to have been done, it should have been left for a different episode. Or have Oliver confirm at the end of this one and then deal with everything later on. Oh, and that kid? No preservation instinct. He needs to meet Aunt Thea. I mean, a strange man entered his room and he kept playing! Stranger danger, child, FFS!

[Velocity23]

Since when does Laurel Vibe? The deja-vu crap

[ottoDbusdriver]

Also, I hated the Hawks. I REALLY hated the flashbacks.  

 

I also not entirely sure how being killed by Vandal Savage the very first time: a) made both Shiara and Khufu reincarnate indefinitely with souls that can be absorbed to power up said supervillain and give him immortality, b) gave them both wings, c) gave them the ability to be reborn and grow into the exact same bodies as they had when they were first killed in Egypt, and d) made them beacons to attract VS even BEFORE their powers emerged after reincarnating.

 

Because they really had a lot of explaining about how all that worked.  Especially about how their wings appeared/disappeared without tearing through their clothing.  Did they already have Hawkman/Hawkgirl outfits before they were killed the first time, or did they whip them up after their first reincarnation ?  Because I thought those outfits looked pretty stupid, especially the helmets.

 

Or was VS immortal already BEFORE he killed them ?  Did Savage chant some spell as they were dying to enable the reincarnation/wing growth/remember all their past lives capabilities ? Was dying beside the staff of Horus and the dagger of Horus key to this somehow ?

Edited December 4, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver