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S02.E07: A Most Powerful Adversary

formerlyfreedom

By formerlyfreedom
in The Leftovers [V]

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formerlyfreedom

formerlyfreedom

Nora gives Kevin and Jill news they weren’t expecting. Kevin deals with the fall-out of Nora’s news and explores his options re: tackling his Patti problem head-on. Jill goes on a solo adventure that could only happen in Miracle. Laurie makes a rash decision that affects the Garveys.

 

 

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MyPeopleAreNordic

MyPeopleAreNordic

(edited)

I'm glad Jill is finally going to have a storyline beyond flirting with the neighbors' son & conveniently being around to happily feed/care for Lily & Mary.

ETA: Well, that was a disappointment. After watching the episode....um, Jill still didn't have a storyline.

Edited by MyPeopleAreNordic
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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

(edited)

Looks like the promo monkeys were fed mininformation. Maybe they got it from Patti?

So I'm guessing Michael (the boy next door) is going to rush Kevin to a hospital. Hopefully in the truck and not on the handlebars of his bike. And hopefully Nora won't now have 2 comatose patients to care for, or else Matt's going to have to give up his martyrdom to help out.

The handcuff was very reminiscent of the wristband--and it wasn't until after Kevin found the key to take it off (which was hidden by his inner demon) that he let himself get "killed." Another viewer is going to have to parse this symbolism for me/us.

Kevin tells "Patti" that his father said after he started doing what the voices told him to do that they went away (which we also heard Kevin's father say in an earlier episode), but then when Patty tells Kevin to not drink the poison, he does anyway.

So Erika's father (right? not John's?) shot himself because the "cure" didn't really work and he was still a pedophile?

Edited by shapeshifter
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represent

represent

(edited)

 

So Erika's father (right? not John's?) shot himself because the "cure" didn't really work and he was still a pedophile?

I was thinking he's John's father and he molested him when he was a boy and lord knows for how many years it went on.  It's the answer to Matt's question from two weeks ago when he asked John what on earth had happened to him to make him so angry. 

 

What I want to know is what the hell was he really doing in that shack with Michael? Just icky, glad he shot himself right in the head.

 

But I was confused as to why he thought he had to kill Kevin. I know he's a sick pedophile but I guess he also got his jollies from murdering people?

 

I mean WTF? 

 

What cure? You mean the "cure" that "cured" him from his pedophilia?

Edited by represent
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Cardie

Cardie

I have a long history of guessing wrong about Lindelof twists but I wondered whether Kevin's palm print came up positive and Michael conspired with his grandfather to off him (thus also ridding Jill of the burden of having a psychotic dad who always messes things up, something Michael knows a lot about.) It did seem that Michael knew what was about to happen and came to haul Kevin's body away, not to rush him to the ER.

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Tim Thomason

Tim Thomason

Maybe he (and Michael) realized that they had a dangerous psychotic on their hands, one that moved in the day before the three girls went missing and had most likely killed before (or "witnessed a suicide" if they were to believe his story completely). So the entire situation was a lure to take him out and get vengeance. Grandpa Murphy's suicide when all was said and done was his way of atoning for his past sins and perhaps continuing urges, although I think his prayers with Michael were fairly innocent.

 

Of course, Michael seems to be ruining the plan by saving Kevin. Or maybe his part (burying the body?) will be interrupted by someone who will then proceed to save Kevin. John Murphy is due to discover that palm print soon, and may be leading a fire brigade to hunt him down as we speak.

 

It'll be some tense times at the Laurie and Nora and Jill and Mary and Lily household.

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

I was thinking he's John's father and he molested him when he was a boy and lord knows for how many years it went on.  It's the answer to Matt's question from two weeks ago when he asked John what on earth had happened to him to make him so angry. 

Yes, as per this review, Virgil is John's father.

 

But I was confused as to why he thought he had to kill Kevin. I know he's a sick pedophile but I guess he also got his jollies from murdering people?

 

I mean WTF? 

 

What cure? You mean the "cure" that "cured" him from his pedophilia?

Yes, the "cure" was to flatline and then get revived. But Virgil evidentally reached the conclusion that only real death was a cure.
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represent

represent

 

But Virgil evidentally reached the conclusion that only real death was a cure.

 

 

Yeah I agree, but only in his case, not Kevin's.

 

I'm with Patty, "He's a pedophile!"  

 

 

I have a long history of guessing wrong about Lindelof twists but I wondered whether Kevin's palm print came up positive and Michael conspired with his grandfather to off him (thus also ridding Jill of the burden of having a psychotic dad who always messes things up, something Michael knows a lot about.) It did seem that Michael knew what was about to happen and came to haul Kevin's body away, not to rush him to the ER.

 

 

 

 

And I'm on board with this. I'll just add, that he did it for his father or maybe even his mother as well, seeing as John would try to kill Kevin and Michael would want to save him from going to jail again. 

 

Anyway, Michael is cursing in the previews so it must be something for profanity to come out of his mouth. I can't wait.

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Tim Thomason

Tim Thomason

Anyway, Michael is cursing in the previews so it must be something for profanity to come out of his mouth. I can't wait.

Perhaps. But then Matt used the same curse when he dropped his cell phone in the toilet. I'm going to reserve judgment, but I will admit that Michael has probably had a bad day.

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Trick Question

Trick Question

So if the non-magic answer of what happened in the pond was that the earthquake's fissure swallowed up the water, then SURELY it's been examined to make sure the three girls' bodies aren't inside, right?  That's too obvious an answer at this point.  (Plus it wouldn't explain that random scene from the premiere of the three girls running naked in the woods.)

 

The acting on this show is so excellent that a bad performance really stands out, and Margaret Qualley is just totally the weak link here.  Zylka's not much better but at least they've solved that problem by simply keeping him off the show.

 

Perhaps. But then Matt used the same curse when he dropped his cell phone in the toilet. I'm going to reserve judgment, but I will admit that Michael has probably had a bad day.

He'll drop Kevin's corpse in a toilet?

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ToastnBacon

ToastnBacon

When Virgil emptied the syringe I was like "Noooooooo!!!!".  This show....!

I was thinking that it was sham poison and he was playing a mind game with Kevin until he put the gun in his mouth.

I'll go along with the theory that Kevin was implicated in the girl's disappearance and the grandson talked Virgil into it.

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BooBear

BooBear

I am really lost about Kevin. I will just have to see what happens. I can't believe that it was a plot by Michael to kill Kevin because he had no assurance Kevin would come back. And it was alleged that Kevin got this same advice before the girls went missing. I agree it is just much more likely that pedophile granddad had come to conclude that death was the only real savior.

 

For me the shockers of the episode were (1) Nora, just ups and leaves Kevin? Huh? Wow, that is not the kick arse Nora I thought I knew. Unless this is somehow explained away for her to leave Kevin like that, get him no help, and leave a crazy person with a teen daughter... not good. Then apparently whatever their conversation was about led Kevin to attempting to kill himself rather than the sane thing of getting some drugs/ therapy. (2) Laurie Garvey - I think I cried when Kevin aplogized for the dog. Just really nice to see those two have a nice moment.  When Kevin gets his mind back he should dump Nora. He didn't sign up for a baby, or to take care of Mary but when he gets into trouble, Nora is outttttaaaa there. (3) Jill went back to her jerk self this episode and for much of the series I would have loved to hear her lecture her dad. But here I was just confused. Her dad is insane... she knows that... but she started acting like it was HIS fault.  Like someone he had messed things up on purpose.  Nice Jill.

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Screwhead728

Screwhead728

I think Kevin will appear in Australia just like that man who had died and reappered there. I think Virgil killed himself to be a guide to Kevin. Virgil mentioned it like twice or three times early on the episode saying "you need a guide". So I do think he will appear in Australia. Best episode of the season.

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Tim Thomason

Tim Thomason

I think Kevin will appear in Australia just like that man who had died and reappered there. I think Virgil killed himself to be a guide to Kevin. Virgil mentioned it like twice or three times early on the episode saying "you need a guide". So I do think he will appear in Australia. Best episode of the season.

 

That makes alot of sense to anyone who's up on their Dante's Inferno, where the Roman poet Virgil guides the fictionalized Dante through Hell and so on.

 

So if the non-magic answer of what happened in the pond was that the earthquake's fissure swallowed up the water, then SURELY it's been examined to make sure the three girls' bodies aren't inside, right?  That's too obvious an answer at this point.  (Plus it wouldn't explain that random scene from the premiere of the three girls running naked in the woods.)

 

My non-magic answer is that the disappearance was staged to look like a departure. Probably by the girls themselves. They already introduced us to the idea of second departures, and how they're universally believed to be shams, with Nora's talk of one earlier this season. And the girls had multiple scenes of strange behavior (running naked, plus that scene where they drop all pretense briefly and drive off silently at one point).

 

I don't want the "real departure" to be explained, but I want some explanation (a non-supernatural one) given to the girls' disappearance by the end of the season.

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BaseOps

BaseOps

(edited)

Well shit, I didn't see that ending coming. That entire last sequence had my jaw on the ground. This episode was probably one of the strangest of the series, and that's really saying something. I think Justin Theroux is the most underrated leading man on TV right now - he can be heartbreaking, terrifying, and frustrating usually within a few moments of each other.

 

I really felt for Kevin this week... I mean, Nora just up and left? Wtf? That sort of seems out of character to me, although I guess she's been through a lot. But when your loved one tells you they're sick, you just take the baby and leave? Ditto for Nora - is this really how the woman in Kevin's life treat him? He's done so much for both of them, and the second he needs help they both blow up on him and leave him to die. 

 

I liked the stuff with Laurie, especially Kevin apologizing for something as trivial as "being mean" about not getting a dog. This guy is truly tortured, and it's sad that things just keep slipping out of his grasp. I'm assuming (hoping) that they haven't killed him off, although with this show I really don't know. 

Edited by BaseOps
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Cardie

Cardie

I doubt Kevin is dead. Perhaps Virgil didn't make the poison dose lethal enough. I can totally see spirit guide Virgil fighting with Patti in future episodes.  Poor Kevin! All the talk of guides had me saying to myself that it would be as it is in Dante without once making the connection that this guy is named Virgil.

 

Nora was in a very vulnerable state after the conversation with Erika, so when Kevin admitted he was hallucinating, she probably couldn't cope and fled.

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toomuchtv47

toomuchtv47

This episode really hit me hard.  For the past couple of days I've been battling my own depression that I normally have a very good handle on but every now and again the world could end and I'd be ok with it.  In any case, watching Kevin battle 'Patti' grabbed me and I didn't realize I was hunched over in the same position for the entire show until the end.  Maybe it's because of my mood but, wow, this was gripping and probably some of the best television I've seen in a long time.  Then again, a week from now I can see it again and think it's all crap haha.

 

I didn't get the pedophilia connection with Virgil even when 'Patti' said so and it wasn't until reading here that I figured out what was going on.  But when Kevin was all fuck it, drank the glass and nothing happened for the first couple of seconds, I was convinced it was all a test.

 

Nora was disappointing even though I get it.  She's told she might be a lens, it looks as though there was another departure (although a departure of just 3 after 2% doesn't make much sense to me), she's got Mary to take care of, the baby and then finds out that Kevin is hearing voices.  I'd take off too.

 

I thought I had clearer thoughts on all this but they seem to be all jumbled together.  One thing I am sure of, I can't wait till next Sunday.

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DarkRaichu

DarkRaichu

I think Kevin will appear in Australia just like that man who had died and reappered there. I think Virgil killed himself to be a guide to Kevin. Virgil mentioned it like twice or three times early on the episode saying "you need a guide". So I do think he will appear in Australia. Best episode of the season.

Michael was arguing with grandpa Virgil as Kevin knocked the door.  Grandpa probably told him what his plan was and Michael argued against having a dead grandpa.  I think Michael was dragging Kevin's body out to keep it safe.

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

Nora just up and left? Wtf? That sort of seems out of character to me,

It seems out of character for Nora to leave Jill.  And speaking of Jill, it sure sounded to me like she called Lily "Molly".  That ending blew me away.

To me it actually seemed like she was going back to being "real" if the Nora we met in season one was real (paying prostitutes to shoot her). Taking Lilly and Mary seemed more season 2-ish (Responsible Nora).

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represent

represent

 

To me it actually seemed like she was going back to being "real" if the Nora we met in season one was real (paying prostitutes to shoot her)

This is just what I was going to say, because I didn't watch season one consistently, but I definitely remember her paying prostitutes to shoot her. I was like WTF is she doing?

 

Yeah, these people are just putting bandages on their wounds, they can't deal with it all. Nora and Kevin were trying but for Nora it's worse IMO because at least Kevin's family is still alive. Yeah, they are split up, but the fact that they are still living means there's hope for them as a family unit. Nora's entire family departed and now she believes that shit can happen again and that she may have played some role in it. She may not be seeing people like Kevin but I'm going to cut her a lot of slack while she has her own breakdown. I mean come on.

 

I think the only person who seems to be truly making some peace with what happen and is living in reality now, is Laurie, ironically so. Everyone else is still out of it and barely coping.

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Cardie

Cardie

Next season on The Leftovers: spirit Kevin, Patti and Virgil convince all the wackos in the camp outside Miracle to off themselves. In a special crossover episode, some of the spirits take up residence in rotting walker corpses on the Walking Dead.

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txhorns79

txhorns79

Yeah, these people are just putting bandages on their wounds, they can't deal with it all. Nora and Kevin were trying but for Nora it's worse IMO because at least Kevin's family is still alive. Yeah, they are split up, but the fact that they are still living means there's hope for them as a family unit. Nora's entire family departed and now she believes that shit can happen again and that she may have played some role in it. She may not be seeing people like Kevin but I'm going to cut her a lot of slack while she has her own breakdown. I mean come on.

 

Yeah, I think it says something that Laurie is the most well adjusted of all these people at the moment.  I did appreciate her scene with Kevin, cutting through Patti's BS in a minute and telling Kevin the truth about what was happening to him.  

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MyPeopleAreNordic

MyPeopleAreNordic

(edited)

I have a long history of guessing wrong about Lindelof twists but I wondered whether Kevin's palm print came up positive and Michael conspired with his grandfather to off him (thus also ridding Jill of the burden of having a psychotic dad who always messes things up, something Michael knows a lot about.) It did seem that Michael knew what was about to happen and came to haul Kevin's body away, not to rush him to the ER.

This is what I thought was probably going on, too.

I'm wondering now if Evie & her friends were disappeared by Virgil as well.

It seems out of character for Nora to leave Jill.

I thought it was shitty for Nora to just leave (and I had just defended Nora in her thread here). I know she has a lot going on, but she should have tried to get Kevin help or try to get him to institutionalize himself (as Laurie suggested) and she should not have left Jill. Jill was already abandoned by her mother and now Nora left her, too. Also, I call BS that Nora or any woman would leave the house SHE owns and and SHE spent millions of dollars/basically all of her money on. If anything, Nora would have kicked Kevin out of that house in "real life." The fact that she didn't makes me think that she was hoping to return but needed to get away for a bit. Edited by MyPeopleAreNordic
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Helena Dax

Helena Dax

Wow. I didn't see that  coming. I  don't  want Kevin to die; show wouldn't be  the same  without him and his wtf face. I  don't know why Virgil did  it;  I mean,  yes, the logical explanation is that he thought that Kevin had something to do with Evie's disappearance, but this show likes to follow more complicated paths than that.  Also, if Kevin's really being  protected  (not sure about that), maybe his palm print won't give a positive match.

 

So Grandad was a pedophile... That'd explain John's reaction when Matt asked what had happened to him.  

 

I liked that we had confirmation that Laurie and Tommy were making  up  all  that stuff  about  magic hugs.

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represent

represent

(edited)

 

Yeah, I think it says something that Laurie is the most well adjusted of all these people at the moment.  I did appreciate her scene with Kevin, cutting through Patti's BS in a minute and telling Kevin the truth about what was happening to him.

I think she prefaced that she shouldn't be doing this because it's not the right way to practice therapy,as in just come right out and tell him what's up with him. She said something to that effect before she said that she was going to do it anyway because he wasn't her patient. So she knew that wasn't the best way, but I guess at that time she had no idea that she would be going home with him and thought she'd help the best way she could before heading back.

 

I thought it was shitty for Nora to just leave (and I had just defended Nora in her thread here). I know she has a lot going on, but she should have tried to get Kevin help or try to get him to institutionalize himself (as Laurie suggested) and she should not have left Jill. Jill was already abandoned by her mother and now Nora left her, too. Also, I call BS that Nora or any woman would leave the house SHE owns and and SHE spent millions of dollars/basically all of her money on. If anything, Nora would have kicked Kevin out of that house in "real life." The fact that she didn't makes me think that she was hoping to return but needed to get away for a bit.

 

I'm sorry, but sometimes it's just too much. I don't know why Nora has to take on the burden of getting Kevin help when as far as I can see she's literally having a breakdown herself. I mean is it because she's the woman and supposed maternal figure that she's expected to stick around and make sure Kevin gets help when she's about to flip out herself? Because that's what I see, she can't help herself so how can she be in the frame of mind to help her crazy ass boyfriend, she's going nuts herself? I just can't fault her at this point since I see her leaving him as her trying to maintain what sanity she may have left. Then she's got the baby and Mary, no sorry. And Jill isn't her kid and is practically a young woman. I'm not saying Nora doesn't have faults but the expectation that she be strong enough through it ALL at this point and take care of crazy ass Kevin when she's on the ledge herself isn't fair IMO. It's all shitty, what has happened to her is shitty. It's shitty that Kevin was nuts enough to not take Laurie's words to heart and instead chose to drive off leaving his daughter and turn to a crazy ass pedophile for help. Yeah, Nora is no state of mind to deal with that shit, not at this point. Maybe she might have been able to deal with it before she started thinking that another Departure might be a possibility and before she thought she might be a Lens, but those two things have pushed her over the edge. Yeah, bye Kevin, key is under the pillow, good luck with that. 

 

I mean Laurie told him what he needed, she was downstairs in the house and willing to help him. He asked her to stay and help then he jumped out a damn window and ran. Yet, Nora is expected to do better than a level headed psychiatrist Laurie would do? Laurie who actually has much more history with this man since she was married to him and they have two children.

Edited by represent
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scrb

scrb

When did Jill start swearing like a sailor?

Because Michael makes her sexually frustrated? (and yeah a teen male turning down sex, what BS)

She's like channeling Nora, not tolerating her father seeing ints.

Or her mother showing up, when the last time she saw Laurie, she was begging to live with her.

Lindelhof must like to show angry white females.

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izabella

izabella

I feel for Jill right now.  Her dad is crazy, she is the sole caregiver to a woman who doesn't move or speak, and her boyfriend is pulling her dead?dad by his legs after he drank poison, and the only sane-ish person in her life just ran off with a baby they found on their porch.  Oh, yeah, and her former-cult-joining mom is in town for a visit. 

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ArizonaGrown

ArizonaGrown

After last season I was not going to watch this season - but last week I decided to watch on demand just one show and found myself watching them all over a few days leading up to this latest show. This show  was great I barely had a chance to sit - standing like I did as a child in front of tv trance like. I really like all the twists and turns - and love Lauries return too. I dont like Nora she is so angry like a rebellious teenager and I dont think she shows any ability to have compassion for anyone even herself. I think she will find her new home with the carnival act outside of Miracle to be exactly were she belongs. I know - I will sit in the chair in corner now. 

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txhorns79

txhorns79

I'm sorry, but sometimes it's just too much. I don't know why Nora has to take on the burden of getting Kevin help when as far as I can see she's literally having a breakdown herself. I mean is it because she's the woman and supposed maternal figure that she's expected to stick around and make sure Kevin gets help when she's about to flip out herself? Because that's what I see, she can't help herself so how can she be in the frame of mind to help her crazy ass boyfriend, she's going nuts herself?

 

Nora would be expected to take on some of the burden because she's apparently close enough with Kevin that she moved across country with him, is living with he and his daughter, and they are raising a baby together.  It has nothing to do with her being a woman, so much as it is about her being his partner.  I don't fault Nora for having a bad reaction to Kevin's situation, as she has her own very serious issues going on, but you can't really bail on your partner when they are ailing.  Otherwise, what's the point of the relationship?     

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BooBear

BooBear

I feel for Jill right now.  Her dad is crazy, she is the sole caregiver to a woman who doesn't move or speak, and her boyfriend is pulling her dead?dad by his legs after he drank poison, and the only sane-ish person in her life just ran off with a baby they found on their porch.  Oh, yeah, and her former-cult-joining mom is in town for a visit. 

Yes, this is why I found what Nora did so shocking. Just leaving Jill in a strange town with a crazy dad. It is bad that she ran off on that dad but to leave Jill is pretty nasty. I do, of course, hope that Jill has no choice but talk to her former clut-joining mom.

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pasdetrois

pasdetrois

I grew annoyed at the over-use of the word "fuck" and fast forwarded through much of those scenes. I'm not a prude - not by a long shot - but that much use is lazy writing and self-indulgent. We get it, it's really cool that an actor can say the word on cable TV, please stop.

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A Boston Gal

A Boston Gal

(edited)

 I could not watch the last couple of minutes in real time, it was so hair-pullingly tense (watched it in fast forward, read the recap, got caught up). 

 

I have to say I find it hard to picture the show without Kevin's character - he is the central figure in all this. Who else could serve as the show's center? Laurie? Matt?

 

And now, a practical question: how the hell did Nora manage to leave the house with a baby and a comatose adult in tow by herself? With no noise, and no one around to see?  This really strains the suspension of disbelief. Come on, show, at least pretend to live by the same world of physics that we do. Ah, but this is a show about people who vanished; physical rules need not apply. :-/

 

I'm not sure if I'm looking forward to seeing more Meg and Tommy next week or not...I know I'm not eager for another rape scene.

 

 

Edited by A Boston Gal
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numbnut

numbnut

For me the shockers of the episode were (1) Nora, just ups and leaves Kevin? Huh? Wow, that is not the kick arse Nora I thought I knew. Unless this is somehow explained away for her to leave Kevin like that, get him no help, and leave a crazy person with a teen daughter... not good.

 

Nora just up and left? Wtf? That sort of seems out of character to me, although I guess she's been through a lot.

 

Nora leaving (and without Jill) seemed so out of character that it pulled me out of the show.

 

I think Justin Theroux is the most underrated leading man on TV right now - he can be heartbreaking, terrifying, and frustrating usually within a few moments of each other.

 

I'm assuming (hoping) that they haven't killed him off, although with this show I really don't know.

Wow. I didn't see that  coming. I  don't  want Kevin to die; show wouldn't be the same without him and his wtf face.

 

Theroux is awesome. He and Nora are the only reason I got through the draggy season one. If he stays dead my interest in the show will drop dramatically. (First Glen on TWD and now this.) If he only comes back as a Patti-like spirit to haunt Nora, that'll suck too.

 

When Laurie was explaining the psychotic break, it bugged me that Kevin didn't mention Michael who knew Kevin was talking to a woman dressed in white. If Michael learned this fact through Virgil (after Kevin's first visit), he wouldn't need to introduce Virgil and give directions to his house.

 

I liked that we had confirmation that Laurie and Tommy were making up all that stuff about magic hugs.

 

Laurie's info dump of exposition about the scam was just lazy writing. Did they gain more followers? Did the scam threaten the GRs? What was the last straw to make Tommy bail? Did Laurie come clean with the followers? The promo for next week only seems to show Tommy after he bailed.

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txhorns79

txhorns79

Did Nora take Mary with her?  For some reason, I didn't think she had, but it would make sense since Mary is her sister in law.

 

I think her note said she had taken Mary as well.  I also agree that I have no idea how Nora managed to get a baby and comatose adult out of that house without waking anyone up. 

 

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