B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[TobinAlbers]

Bill is making no damn sense. What kind of relationship does he think he'll have with Liam if Steffy leaves him for his father?

He cannot believe that he and Liam would be able to sort this out. Or does he believe that he can bully Liam into admitting 'hypocrisy' in his having feelings for Sally, which is a betrayal to his marriage and so they've all done 'wrong' so he shouldn't be upset and in fact should be happy he can be with someone else.

Or does he just not care about his son and won't admit it?

This is where not having Phoebe or Taylor on the show is really apparent. Steffy has NO one in her corner to angst to or support her. Phoebe as the forgiving, open, sunny comforting confidant to Steffy who is her rock and compass when things really get bad would've really given a bit of depth to Steffy's character.

Instead Steffy is confiding and angsting to the man she cheated with.

Edited December 3, 2017 by TobinAlbers

[Waldo13]

Why am I not surprised that Darlita is a romantic. "Demolition Dust" ?

Does Bill really give a crap about Liam?  He wouldn't have "done" Stuffy in the first place. I know, I've been there but NOT done that.  Bill wants Stuffy more than he wants a relationship with Liam. I'll bet the farm in that. 

[CountryGirl]

Recap for Thursday, November 30, 2017:

We open at the Steamless house.

Liam: "Do you know how lucky I am, starting each morning like this with my beautiful, amazing wife in my arms? You know, if it weren't for you..." If it weren't for Hauxdi, Liam could be with someone who truly loves him and would never betray him (hint - Sally).

He comes up to to nuzzle against her and you can tell her mind is elsewhere.

Steffy: "Please don't do that." Yes, please, don't, Liam. My stomach can't take it.

Liam: "I... what?"

Steffy: "Just, uh, put me on a pedestal and make me sound like I'm perfect." Feeling guilty, Hauxdi? Neah...

Liam: "Oh, I'm sorry. Did I say you were perfect? You hog all the sheets, you put dirty dishes in the sink. It's disgusting. And frank-- wait. Nope. Nope. That'd be me. Hmm. Still, when it counts..." When it counts, she fucks up even bigger.

He moves to kiss her and she's as into it as a wax dummy.

Steffy: "When it counts, couples don't compound their mistakes and make even bigger ones. I never should have walked out on you. No, I shouldn't have. I really regret it. But we renewed our vows, and we're starting over. I'm so happy I'm Mrs. Liam Spencer." The clock is ticking on this marriage.

She flashes back to arguing with Bill over whether or not to confess to Liam.

Later, they chat about taking a trip together and going completely off the grid. You can run, but you can't hide, heifer.

Steffy: "I mean, we would be cut off from the rest of the world. I know it's kind of short notice, but I think we should do it."

Liam: "You don't have to convince me. I'm on board. Although I mean, with Christmas right around the corner, I know you like to be with your family. And I'm actually looking forward to spending some time with my dad after everything that's happened. I know that's something you'd like, right?"

Steffy looks like she's swallowed a bug: "Yeah, we can, uh, talk about it later. Don't you have to go to the office?" Trying to get rid of him, I see.

Liam: "Uh, well, today I'm working from home. I'd love it if you did, too." 

Steffy brushes him off: "No, I actually have a meeting." Dressed like that? Um, I'm guessing she has a meeting at Bill's house.

Liam finally picks up on her mood: "Hey. Steffy, you okay?"

"Steffy: "Yeah. No, I'm -- I'm fine. I'm fine."

Liam: "Well, your hands are shaking."

Steffy: "No, it's just the chills. It's nothing, really." The weight of her lies and betrayal maybe?

Liam: "Are you sure about that? 'Cause if it's something else..."

Steffy: "Uh-huh."

Liam: "Okay, come here." He takes her into his arms and it truly galls me how she can allow him to comfort her. She truly is a worthless piece of shit.

Liam goes back to looking at his laptop, presumably for vacation spots.

Steffy stares off into the distance and even before the inevitable flashbacks (which, ENOUGH ALREADY!!!) start up, we know exactly whom she's thinking of.

When the flashbacks end, we cut to Bill, drinking coffee at his home, his thoughts the exact same sleazy place.

Steffy shows up just as we all knew she would.

Steffy immediately begins ranting: "I can't do it, Bill. I can't keep this secret any longer."

Bill: "Yes, you can. You're a strong woman. We made a pact, Steffy."

Steffy: "I know! But it's wrong! I'm not being honest with my husband."

Bill: "Normally I would agree, but considering the circumstances-"

Steffy interrupts: "I overreacted that night. At least Liam told me what happened with Sally. He was honest with me."

Bill: "About a few kisses. Our situation is totally different." Ya think?

Steffy: "Yes, and there's no coming back from that. I have to lie to Liam over and over and over." No, you don't. You can be a decent person for once in your life and tell him the truth.

Bill: "All right, look, look, I know that it's hard. But just give it some time and you will see-"

Steffy: "What? It's just gonna go away? This is gonna haunt me for the rest of my life." With a living, breathing reminder of your betrayal to arrive in about nine months, I suspect.

Bill: "It'll haunt you even more knowing coming clean cost you your marriage, the man you want to spend the rest of your life with. Are you willing to take that risk?" And after all her whining about "we wuz robbed!" This time, she did the robbing.

Steffy starts crying then (well, she would be crying but JMW can't cry for shit): "Bill, what am I supposed to do? I'm just gonna pretend that everything's wonderful between me and my husband." How in the hell Bill could ever be attracted to this sniveling nothing of a woman, I have no clue. 

Bill: "It can be wonderful if you just let this go." Said like a man with no conscience.

Steffy: "My mind won't let me." Won't let you?

Bill: "You have to try harder. We both do, for everyone's sake."

Steffy: "So I'm just gonna continue to lie to my husband." Yup...you're getting pretty good at it. 

Bill: "To protect your marriage, our family. I don't want to lose my son, either, Steffy." But he'd drop Liam in a heartbeat if it meant he could pork his daughter-in-law some more.

Steffy: "I know. But why didn't we think about that before we did what we did? Why didn't we stop ourselves?"

Because you wanted to fuck so you fucked. It's not rocket surgery.

Bill, losing patience, breaks it down like she's five, which is about right: "You didn't set out to betray Liam and neither did I." Newsflash, Bill - you and Steffy were already betraying him, for weeks before the Swill boink. All the meetings, the touching, the ego-stroking, not to mention verbally tearing down your respective son and husband. "Hell, I thought you were done with him, that you were leaving him. God knows you had good reason. The man you trusted, your husband, just confessed to you that he shared a connection with, kisses with a woman that you loathe, that's been your enemy from day one. Now, sure, the circumstances were extraordinary, but they also revealed a connection between Liam and Sally that I don't think he was ready to fully admit to until that moment." He's fanning the flames in his favor, but he's not entirely wrong here with Sally and Liam. I said then that they would be forever changed by the demolition and being trapped together under the rubble.

Steffy: "Look, nothing excuses what happened between us. It was a mistake, Bill. It was a horrible lapse in judgment." The only correct thing she's said since I don't know when but hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Bill: "That will be compounded if you tell Liam everything. You do realize that."

Steffy: "What I realize is that I need to give Liam the same kind of integrity and honesty that he gives me. Our marriage deserves that." Liam DOES deserve the truth. She keeps running to Bill as if she's asking for permission to be honest with the husband he helped her cuckhold. She doesn't need his permission. If she's woman enough to fuck his father, she's woman enough to own up to it.

Bill: "You won't have a marriage if you tell him. He will leave you. You will lose Liam forever. Is that what you want?" I do have to wonder at Bill's motives. Clearly, he didn't give a shit about Liam when he nearly killed him with the demolition, much less screwing his wife, even if he told himself the marriage was over when Steffy walked out. You would think he'd want the truth to come out so Liam would end it with Steffy, opening the door wide open for Swill. But perhaps he's afraid the sad sack Liam is, he'll take her back and take all the blame for sending her into a spiral that only sex with his father could stop.

Steffy appears to be taking in his words and I find it hilarious that a photo of Liam is right over her shoulder.

Bill: "If you tell Liam what happened between us, it may ease your conscience, but the damage it will do to your marriage, not to mention my relationship with my son? We are finally starting to heal. If you open this up... you're my son's wife, Steffy. If you tell him we were together, that's all he's going to hear. It's not gonna matter that we thought your relationship was over. He will feel betrayed."

Steffy: "He was betrayed."

Bill: "And I hate myself for it." No, he doesn't. He salivates every time he thinks back on their nasty little romp. "But it wasn't intentional from either of us. And what happened between us, it wasn't tawdry. It wasn't dirty. And it wasn't an accident. We made love, and we both felt that way about it."

They may feel that way about it...but it was TAWDRY...it was DIRTY...and DISGUSTING...and VILE...and a lot of other nasty words. The only thing he got right is that it wasn't an accident. 

Steffy: "Bill, stop. Please stop. Please." Why, because he's right? 

Bill: "I can't stop. I wish I could. I really do. But I can't. I can't lock those feelings away again. I told you that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with you. I said it years ago, and I said it again after we made love. I can't pretend like I don't feel that we were made for each other. We understand each other. We're connected. We always have been, and we always will be. I can't deny what I know. We were meant to be. You and I, we're meant to be."

She's visibly moved by his words. I, was, too...moved to grab the nearest wastebasket. 

And I think she really does want to be with him but she knows this is one man she can't steamroll, much less use her cha-cha-cha as a bargaining chip. And that scares the hell out of her.

Over at Sally and Coco's apartment, Sally is holding up different earrings and asking Coco her opinion. 

They're all pretty terrible, Sally.

Sally shares that she's going to see Liam. She thinks back to their time in the rubble and her heartfelt words to him, the kiss they shared.

Coco brings her sister back to the present: "Does Liam know you're coming?"

Sally: "No. But I will make sure that I do not run into Steffy."

Coco: "Yeah, well, that can complicate a lot of things if you did."

Sally scoffs at this: "I know. And I don't want to do anything to upset things for them, okay? I know that Steffy's forgiven him and they're moving on from what happened."

Coco: "What about you, Sis? Have you?" I think the answer to that is painfully obvious.

Sally: "I don't want to create more problems for Liam. I just need to speak to him."

Coco: "You really can't get that guy out of your mind, can you? You fell really hard for the guy." That she did but I can't say I blame her...and except for one kiss, under very extreme, dire circumstances, she hasn't acted on her feelings.

She heads off to Liam's beach house.

Darlita shows up later, looking adorable in an embellished jean jacket.

Coco shares that Sally went to visit Liam and Darlita surmises why, surprising Coco:

Darlita: "I'm pretty sharp when it comes to certain things, like when a girl likes a guy, only she pretends she doesn't because she knows if she admitted it, let alone acted on it, she would cause all kinds of trouble. But then she gets trapped in an explosion with that guy, and something happens, something that Sally could have never predicted. How am I doing so far?" I just love Darlita and DH is a real find. I'd love to see more of her.

Coco is impressed: "You put all this together yourself?"

Darlita: "I'm very intuitive. All of the women in my family are. We also read a lot of romance novels. Anyway, I'm guessing this all came to a head in that explosion. Maybe Sally bared her soul thinking she had nothing to lose, and Liam... Liam I haven't figured out quite yet. But being the good guy that he is, I can't see him crossing the line with her." Realization dawns: "Oh, my god. Are you saying he and Sally did cross a line?"

Coco spills the beans about their kiss under the rubble and Darlita calls it "romantic...but also scary." An apt description, I think.

Darlita: "I knew I was right. Sal's had the hots for Liam all along. And she's with him right now?"

Coco: "Yes. But not to cause trouble for Liam. She just wants to get some answers."

Darlita: "No wonder you want me to keep this hush-hush. If Steffy ever found out-"

Coco tells her she knows and that she forgave Liam and they even renewed their wedding vows.

Darlita: "Wow. That's love." It's something...

Coco: "Yeah. Pretty exceptional woman, huh?"

Darlita: "I'll say. Wait. If Liam and Steffy are back together and happy, where does that leave Sally?"

Alone and brokenhearted, but Red's tough. She'll survive.

Speaking of, Sally arrives at the beach house and my goodness, what I would give for her figure, especially her legs, her's and Darlita's.

Liam: "So, to what do I owe the random drop-in?"

Sally: "Uh, I hope you don't mind me coming by."

Liam: "No, no, not at all. I just...how did you know I'd be here and not at the office?"

Sally: "I called Spencer. They said that you were working from home today."

Liam: "Ah. Right."

Sally takes a moment to take in the view: "Your house is incredible. Look at this view." He looks at the view, then at her, and can't help but smile at the awe in her voice. "You and Steffy looked really happy on Thanksgiving."

Liam just stares at her, then, flustered: "Yeah. Uh, yeah. Yeah, we are. It's actually, um, kind of surreal how understanding she was." He scratches his head to emphasize the point. Surreal is one way of putting it.

Sally: "She really loves you." No, she loves herself.

Liam: "And I betrayed that love. She forgave me, thankfully." He doesn't seem the same over-the-moon gleeful man he was in those first moments when Steffy came back that infamous night. Now, in the light of day, the fear of losing his skank of a wife gone, there's something off. He just hasn't put his finger on it yet. And it's more than just Steffy's betrayal. It's his own feelings where Sally is concerned.

Liam gets Sally a mug of tea and she gives him a quick smile. 

Sally: "You know, I got to give the princess props. I expected a completely different reaction from her on Thanksgiving. Clearly she didn't know I was coming 'cause she never would have allowed it. But she rose above. You know, it was classy, considering..." Classy? Hauxdi? 

Liam gives her a smirk: "You really expected her to give it to you, huh?"

Sally: "I expected her to shove my face in Pam's sweet potato casserole is what I expected, (Liam bursts out laughing here and I wouldn't think it that funny) but she didn't. But I'm not letting my guard down just yet, 'cause I expect to have a reaming coming after what I did."

Liam corrects: "After what we did. I'm just as responsible as you are."

Sally disagrees: "No, it was more me, and Steffy knows that, which is exactly why she came back so quickly. Anyway, I know why she hates me." Liam kind of shrugs at that.

Liam: "Uh, actually, that's the thing. I mean, she was obviously mad at first." Sally's eyes bulge at this. "But it's like overnight she found this peace and acceptance and it allowed us to renew our marriage vows, and now-" She had a revenge fuck (or fucks) with orgasms (because I know Bill lives up to his reputation in the bedroom) is what she had. And Liam cannot know this, but the fact that she wasn't calling "off with Sally's head!" should be sending up red flags that something is very, very wrong here.

Sally finishes for him: "Now you're off on this new, incredible chapter of your lives."

Liam: "Yeah. Yeah, we are." So why doesn't he sound all that excited and I think there may be some small hint that something is wrong because shouldn't he be happy?  "It's just the way that Steffy handled the whole thing. It's like she left one woman and came home another." She left home as his wife and returned as another notch on his father's belt. 

Sally: "Couples fight. They make up. I'm just glad what happened didn't cause any permanent damage." And you can see she truly means it, even if it's killing her to say it.

Liam: "Yeah. Me, too. Me, too. Uh, although it wasn't even a fight, so much as when she left, I was scared it was for good."

Sally gives him a look: "She would not do that." Oh, but she did. "No woman would. I certainly wouldn't." He looks at her then and there's a hint of the connection they made underneath the rubble there and Liam is visibly flummoxed. Sally realizes what she's saying: "I'm sorry. No, I'm sorry. The last thing I want to do is to make you feel uncomfortable."

I don't think he's is all that uncomfortable with her...and that makes him uncomfortable.

Sally continues: "I just have to be honest with you, Liam. I can't stop thinking about what happened between us." She is guileless and so raw and so honest...and also very vulnerable.

He inhales and looks skyward and I'll just bet he's flashing back to those moments, too. Clearly, she affected him and still does.

Sally: "And I know I shouldn't. I shouldn't." She does the right thing and directs the conversation back to safer topics: "You're back with Steffy, and that's right where you belong. Meanwhile, I have Spectra to focus on, you know, get it back up and running again with your father's help. Surprise, surprise."

Back on solid footing now, Liam laughs and it's so easy between them.

Sally: "So I guess that makes me lucky. Not as lucky as Steffy, but...anyway, I'm happy that you're happy, that you have a loving woman like the princess who is true and faithful to you."

She's a truly faithless piece of trash.

Sally has this bittersweet, wistful expression on her face and as Liam looks back at her, I see some wistfulness in his own expression.

Honestly, I'm at the point where I'm throwing up my hands and saying, "Let the Swill pigs be together!" Free Liam from the succubus he admittedly attached himself to and be with a truly loyal and loving woman. 

And that means, NO - HELL NO! - to a new triangle with Sally, Liam, and Hope. Sally has suffered enough heartache from losing Thomas to that bitch Carolyin. Let Hope stir up some trouble for dear old Aunt Katie by making a play for former ex-husband, Wyatt.

A gal can dream, right?

Edited December 1, 2017 by CountryGirl

[Petunia13]

2 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

This is where not having Phoebe or Taylor on the show is really apparent. Steffy has NO one in her corner to angst to or support her.  

It's her own fault. For years she's irrationally hated any woman in her orbit. 

[TobinAlbers]

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

 

Good grief the set decorator and cameraman conspired to make sure that big honking doofy photo of Liam was front and center in this scene so we can see the contrast of Steffy's 'boy' husband and Bill the 'Stallion' standing in front of her.

I see you show. I see you.

Edited December 1, 2017 by TobinAlbers

[MulletorHater]

Good evening, CountryGirl!

Excellent recap!  I look at those screen caps of Hot-in-the-Ass Hauxdi and the Gelding and can't help but laugh.  I feel like the girl in the ridiculous red cap in the movie, Carrie, who doubled over, pointed and laughed out loud.  The ratings for the week of November 13-17 were just released and they're not good, particularly in those all-important demos.  Swill is just stinking up the joint and the show continues to shed viewers.  Of particular note, the days that the Gelding and Hauxdi engaged in their "animalistic" human sacrifice dance:  Wednesday and Thursday, were the two lowest-rated days of that week:  2.46 and 2.48, respectively.  In a genre where there are only 4 running soaps, B&B is either in 3rd place, or tied for 3rd in the demos in which JMW/Hauxdi should appeal:  women ages 25-54.

Who in the ever-loving hell thought breaking up Brill, launching Swill and continually propping Hauxdi was a brilliant idea?  All at once?  And, yet this shit continues unabated.  No wonder Bradley was trying to preemptively do damage control because he had to have known on some level that it just might not fly with viewers.  It seems once viewers got wind of what was coming, they tuned out.  DD has apparently been charged with turning a sow's ear into a leading lady and it's not working.  Nor, can JMW elevate the performances of any of the actors who have had the misfortune of being paired with her.  I'm sorry but no amount of Skin-i-Max soft porn "animalistic" flashbacks (with saxophones!) will turn that mess into a love story or romance.  Neither the Gelding nor Hauxdi elevate each other because they're both pieces of human refuse.  Nor, is it believable that any breathing men would fight over this trick.

But, the writers brought this ratings disaster on themselves.  Bradley's decision to put all his eggs in this non-actress' basket has bitten him on the butt.  When will these fools get it that the Stephanie Forrester, Jr. Praise & Worship Show is a disaster of Titanic proportions?  Nor, am I here for Hauxdilocks and the Three Spencers.

Edited December 1, 2017 by MulletorHater
Bad grammar

[Anna Yolei]

6 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

This is where not having Phoebe or Taylor on the show is really apparent. Steffy has NO one in her corner to angst to or support her. Phoebe as the forgiving, open, sunny comforting confidant to Steffy who is her rock and compass when things really get bad would've really given a bit of depth to Steffy's character.

Instead Steffy is confiding and angsting to the man she cheated with.

Shit, this is where people need some genuine friendships on soaps. Not that anyone should want to be friends with the slag, but you'r right that there's a huge imbalance. One that better not be filled with nuHope because her own historic entitlement aside, no one owes Steffy less than she does.

[Anna Yolei]

4 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

Honestly, I'm at the point where I'm throwing up my hands and saying, "Let the Swill pigs be together!" Free Liam from the succubus he admittedly attached himself to and be with a truly loyal and loving woman. 

And that means, NO - HELL NO! - to a new triangle with Sally, Liam, and Hope. Sally has suffered enough heartache from losing Thomas to that bitch Carolyin. Let Hope stir up some trouble for dear old Aunt Katie by making a play for former ex-husband, Wyatt.

A gal can dream, right?

All of this, but especially the bold part. I'e run out of new ways to express how utterly disinterested I am in a Lope reunion, and certainly not one at Sally's expense. Hope may not have been the sociopath Steffy has become, but good God in Heaven she's had some true shining moments that stick out--like suggesting the loss of the Steam spawn was a blessing to reunite them. Or the obnoxious We Wuz Wobbed stuff aimed at Rick because she jumped to the conclusions that an intelligent doorknob would have, given their history. Or trying to make Wyatt push his mother out their lives and blame her for her marriage to Wyatt.

If I had to choose between the most selfless heroine we've seen since Bridget Forrester to win or the entitled, insecure (understandably so, but...), immature brat who marries another man because the groom was five minutes late...like certain other RL decisions recently, the choice is obvious.

That said, maybe they can address Deacon being in jail now? I can accept a handwave that Deacon took the fall for Sheila for some shady reasons (like threatening his son Eric III or whatever) then let him get acquitted or whatever. The lack of anything but the most superficial touching on Hope's lineage is right up there with killing Aly and Ridget as huge mistakes.

[RedRockRosie]

3 hours ago, MulletorHater said:

But, the writers brought this ratings disaster on themselves.  Bradley's decision to put all his eggs in this non-actress' basket has bitten him on the butt.  When will these fools get it that the Stephanie Forrester, Jr. Praise & Worship Show is a disaster of Titanic proportions?  Nor, am I here for Hauxdilocks and the Three Spencers.

OMG. This!! ^

The Steffy character is bad enough but damn, that poor girl can NOT act! Between that & all the absolutely ridiculous propping they are doing of Steffy...honestly the only reason I watch anymore (the parts I don't FF that is) is to snark at the crapitude of it all.

 

In spite of all that, I still like SC so I forgive Liam a lot and the actress who plays Sally is a breath of fresh air....very likeable which makes JMW look worse by comparison.

[TigerLynx]

I thought the writers failed horribly with Phoebe, Steffy and Hope, and I'm not sure why Bridget was written out of the show.

I've liked Ingo in everything I've seen him in, and I hope his Thorne gets better treatment than previous Thornes have.

Also, simply having characters on the show named Caroline, Stephanie, Sally, and Bill Spencer does not mean B&B is anything like it used to be when the original Caroline, Stephanie, Sally, and Bill Spencer were on the show.

Since the idiot writers killed off Thorne's only child, I wonder if they would revisit Liam's paternity, and make him Thorne's son.  I remember how disappointed Liam was when it turned out Bill was his father, and not Thorne.  Both Thorne and Liam liked the idea of Liam being Thorne's son.

If instead they go the idiotic route of a WTD with Thorne/Brooke/Ridge, or Eric/Quinn/Ridge, I'll throw something at my TV.  Yes, both Eric and Ridge had vasectomies, but that's never stopped soaps in the past.

Edited December 2, 2017 by TigerLynx

[Petunia13]

I really think they are trying to make Steffy the new Brooke by both her romances and business stories, plus the proppage and praise are out of control. I'm sorry it's not working for me. Brooke was hardworking, college educated, and self made and has a lot of warmth and vulnerability. Even the acting choices seem more likable. Brooke has a sparkle to her eye, sincere laugh, and genuine smile. 

[grisgris]

Commenting on yesterday's show. I always feel exhausted and a bit lost after an entire 19+ minutes of Hauxdi. JWM seemed to have been hyperventilating her lines. At one point, I thought that not only "Liam," but SC himself, looked confused by the delivery. Especially during the exchange where Liam thought that Fauxdi was asking to bail out of the marriage. I was so hoping that he would have hung on that assumption and ran with it.

What I guess will happen is that either A) Fauxdi chickens out of telling the truth; B) Lame keeps talking over her, interrupting and telling her what she is feeling/trying to say: of C) They are interrupted by somebody at the door (Whine-att?) or urgent text. I don't think the truth will come out on Monday but with Brad Bell's knee-jerk story-telling/abrupt endings, I would be very wrong.

[RuntheTable]

When Brooke slept with Deacon I was horrified, and disgusted, and terrified. B&B has always been my one soapy guilty pleasure, day or night version, and I was struggling with how I could continue to watch after my favorite character did something so heinous. The reactions of Eric and Ridge were not what I expected, and I was disappointed in both that they didn’t really take Brooke to task. Oddly enough the person who helped me the most was Stephanie. She showed proper disgust and anger, but at the same time, committed to trying to help Brooke. At the end of the day however, the reason I was able to forgive Brooke was the character herself, and her portrayer.

It seems the writers are trying to draw similarities between B/D and S/B. For this viewer the only similarity is the act of betrayal, the differences however are many:

Steffy and Liam share a long, messy history of on again, off again romances. They have been married before and have lost a child. Deacon and Bridget had no history and were newly married; a marriage based on Deacon’s desire to stick it to the Forrester’s instead of any love for Bridget.

Bill was/is married to the woman he said was the very air he breathed. A woman he fought for, worked for, and waited for over five long years. Brooke was not married when she slept with Deacon.

Those are just the obvious differences, the other differences are more nuanced, and character/portrayer driven. Steffy has a history with Bill also (shocking!), and has been carrying on an emotional affair with him for weeks. She has openly supported her FIL, has degraded her husband, has also allowed Bill to degrade, belittle and cheapen his son, and everything he stands for. She has claimed her refusal to support Liam was based on Sally being her worst enemy. In reality though, it doesn’t matter who Liam was helping because it was more about Steffy losing control of Liam, and most importantly, the focus not being on her. Steffy is nothing if she isn’t narcissistic and self centric, and those traits have been on full display as she has continually asked Liam “what about MEEEEE!!” Steffy was born with the silver spoon in her mouth and has lived her life letting people know about it. She has rarely seen the ground she walks on due to the height of her nose; consistently parading out her elitist snobbery and class conscious judgement. She has never worked for or earned anything.  She has been fucking her FIL in every way except the literal one for weeks, and was a gleeful and active participant in their night of carnal desire. Watching Steffy and Bill try and justify their actions has been sickening. Bill can go on about the beauty of it, but for me, it was slimy, and scuzzy, and has left me with a raging case of the sticky icks. As does Steffy returning to Bill time and time again, allowing him to prop her and pump her up as something she clearly is not. There is nothing likeable, redeemable, or rootable about Steffy.

Brooke was alone and broken after once again being dumped by Ridge, had no romantic history with Deacon, who was a snake. Of course that is no excuse, but it does help lay the groundwork for the inexcusable. Brooke was not born with the silver spoon in her mouth and had to work hard, get an education, play mother to two younger sisters, and help her mother in her catering business. And most glaringly, Brooke did not renew her wedding vows to anyone during her affair with Deacon. Over the years Brooke may have been led down the wrong path by her heart, but at least she had one, and has always had the capacity for caring and compassion, even to those she disliked. I can think of very few times Brooke has acted with malice, and those times don’t compare to the multitude of horrible, despicable things that have been done to her, something that is overlooked by Brooke detractors because Brooke is the "Slut from the Valley" and deserved whatever she got. But Brooke has always gotten past it, and forgiven those that have hurt her, which is evident in her denial to reveal what Ridge did in Australia and what Bill did to end their marriage. Unlike Katie who played one off on the other, Brooke is opting to decompress and regain her footing alone. KKL has taken Brooke and molded her into this injured butterfly, that is beautiful and vulnerable, loving and gentle. This helped me so much in my quest to overcome B/D. In the hands of a lesser actress I don’t think I could have, which is perfectly illustrated with JMW. I don’t want to forgive her, I want to smack the stank out of her mouth. So, she is going to tell Liam? Whatever. I still hate her and think she is a worthless cow. Telling Liam will not absolve her of any quilt, or collusion with her FIL to hide their betrayal.

What scares me is with Hope’s return, will this set up a Liam/Sally/Hope triangle? UCK! Sally has had enough alright? And I absolutely, under no circumstances, want to revisit Steffy/Liam/Hope. No, if Steffy does indeed spill the beans, I want Liam to be done with her. For good, permanently, and forever. Hope can discover Saul. Or LDG. How about bringing Oliver back? Zende is gone, so who is FC’s photographer now? Besides, Hope and Oliver were adorable.

My gut tells me they are gearing up to make Darlita a bigger player, and I think that is awesome. No doubt they have come to realize what a gem she is; just so cute and cuddly and funny. I don’t care how funny the material is, if the actor/actress doesn’t know how to deliver it, it will still fall flat. Outside of that, she has gorgeous hair, a beautiful mouth/teeth/smile, and some smokin legs.

Edited December 2, 2017 by RuntheTable

[TobinAlbers]

2 hours ago, RuntheTable said:

When Brooke slept with Deacon I was horrified, and disgusted, and terrified. B&B has always been my one soapy guilty pleasure, day or night version, and I was struggling with how I could continue to watch after my favorite character did something so heinous. The reactions of Eric and Ridge were not what I expected, and I was disappointed in both that they didn’t really take Brooke to task. Oddly enough the person who helped me the most was Stephanie. She showed proper disgust and anger, but at the same time, committed to trying to help Brooke. At the end of the day however, the reason I was able to forgive Brooke was the character herself, and her portrayer.

Stephanie confronting Brooke about the affair and pregnancy culminating with her dragging Brooke to look in the mirror and informing her that she was no heroine is one of my top five Brooke/ Stephanie confrontations. Brooke was absolutely delusional and Stephanie set her ass straight.

2 hours ago, RuntheTable said:

How about bringing Oliver back? Zende is gone, so who is FC’s photographer now? Besides, Hope and Oliver were adorable.

If only because it'd open up the dating pool. However I'd want Oliver with Darlita. I think she'd be a way to help heal him after losing Aly.

5 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

Since the idiot writers killed off Thorne's only child, I wonder if they would revisit Liam's paternity, and make him Thorne's son.  I remember how disappointed Liam was when it turned out Bill was his father, and not Thorne.  Both Thorne and Liam liked the idea of Liam being Thorne's son.

This could only happen if Steffy was revealed to not be Ridge's or Thorne or Ridge isn't Stephanie's son. We all know the latter isn't true and Taylor didn't cheat on Ridge at the time the TayTots were conceived so Liam is stuck as Bill's son unless they want to say that paternity test result was an error.

Thorne easily could have a child out there to come out of the woodwork. He may not have been a playa like Ridge and Bill but I doubt he was a monk either. Bonus points if his baby mama is played by Vanessa Marcil. Not sure if it's possible that Macy had a child by Thorne after her first presumed dead disappearance but if she did that kid would be the perfect age to come back in the twentysomething scene.

Edited December 2, 2017 by TobinAlbers

[TigerLynx]

29 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

This could only happen if Steffy was revealed to not be Ridge's or Thorne or Ridge isn't Stephanie's son. We all know the latter isn't true and Taylor didn't cheat on Ridge at the time the TayTots were conceived so Liam is stuck as Bill's son unless they want to say that paternity test result was an error.

Thorne easily could have a child out there to come out of the woodwork. He may not have been a playa like Ridge and Bill but I doubt he was a monk either. Bonus points if his baby mama is played by Vanessa Marcil. Not sure if it's possible that Macy had a child by Thorne after her first presumed dead disappearance but if she did that kid would be the perfect age to come back in the twentysomething scene.

My Bad.  I forgot Ridge and Thorne are still half-brothers.

I love the idea of Vanessa Marcil as a long lost love of Thorne's.  That I would watch.

I never liked Brooke, but after what she did to Bridget with Deacon, I despised her.  That will never change.  I don't care about Steffy, Bill or Liam so I don't care about this SL.  I liked Bridget so I loved seeing her burn Deacon's stuff and tell off both Deacon and Brooke.

[Petunia13]

Bridget is my favorite B&B character. 

[TobinAlbers]

15 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

My Bad.  I forgot Ridge and Thorne are still half-brothers.

There's been so much quasi-incest on this show it's hard to remember sometimes!

Rick dated both Phoebe and Steffy who for all intents are his nieces through Ridge.

Thomas romanced Hope who supposedly was raised as his adopted sister and Ivy who is his cousin (but not really).

Brooke was smooching Thomas who was once his stepmother.

Taylor dated grandpa, er Eric until she wasn't.

And then there was Ridge and Bridget for a time.

Scott Clifton did go on record saying that his scenes with WH were so damned good he really wished that Thorne was Liam's father, however, we all know and now see that would've been a dead end narratively for him. He may have even ended up killed off ala Aly!  Liam vs Thomas as the next gen Thorne and Ridge may have worked except they made Rick the new Thorne. Also SC and DD also have amazing father-son chem so while Liam's been stuck in a triangle from hell spiral he struck gold in being Bill's son from a story standpoint.

Thorne definitely needs to have his branch expanded back so I wouldn't be surprised if he does get a long lost child under Ingo's tenure. A long lost son via Macy seems like the perfect solution. Sally or Coco would be perfect except again both have had relationships with men (Ridge and RJ) related to Thorne via Stephanie. 

This is why we need Lil' D, Oliver, and Jack Marone. They open up the pairing possibilities.

Damn, I miss Aly and Oliver. They were what sweet young love should be instead of Zencole and Roco. A Lil'D/Aly/Oliver or Jack/Aly/Oliver triangle would've been amazing. 

Edited December 3, 2017 by TobinAlbers

[thewhiteowl]

Brooke has acted with malice but not often. I would say that what makes me not like her is more that she's thoughtless of others when she's chasing whatever is her current destiny and her seeming entitlement to it, regardless of who gets hurt.  That's not saying she deserves terrible things to happen to her but I just don't care that much when they do.  JMO

[hypnotoad]

Quote

I would say that what makes me not like her is more that she's thoughtless of others when she's chasing whatever is her current destiny and her seeming entitlement to it, regardless of who gets hurt.  That's not saying she deserves terrible things to happen to her but I just don't care that much when they do.  JMO

I'm right there with you. Brooke's history of crying (out of one eye) about her destiny wears me out. I know most on this board love Brooke but I do not. Heck even her alleged big love story with Bill was pure nonsense. She was talking to Caroline II and explaining how she could snap her fingers and Ridge would be hers and when that actually didn't happen? She suddenly just had to tell Bill she still loved him even though he was married to her sister. Ugghh.

I still think the way the writers ended the Bill/Brooke thing is ridiculous for the fans of the pairing though. I know how they feel. As I have said before, the one and only time I could deal with Brooke was her pairing with Thorne and the writers destroyed that quickly.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Brooke/Throne redo. There simply is no chemistry between this Ridge and Brooke so that is dead in the water. Plus, even if Ronn Moss were still playing Ridge I wouldn't want them together because they've been boring since break-up 1000 and reunion 1001.

I hate the soap trope where the wronged party walks around talking about how wonderful, loving and faithful their partner is after said partner has not been. I just feel such embarrassment for the character and for the actor having to spew the words. Especially in this case with Liam and Steffy because not only is Steffy beyond awful, but Liam has been betrayed by both wife and father. So he has to be spewing words of love to both of them. Yuck.

The writers also need to pick a lane with Bill and stick with it. I mean he tells Steffy not to tell Liam because she'll lose her hubby and he will lose his son. Then he turns around and says he wants to spend the rest of their lives together. Huh? He'd lose his son for sure! It's just so dumb.

I am sitting at the Liam/Sally table. I don't even care if Thomas returns - I want my Lally or Siam or ... what is the couple name?

Edited December 3, 2017 by hypnotoad

[Anna Yolei]

On 12/2/2017 at 9:41 AM, TigerLynx said:

I thought the writers failed horribly with Phoebe, Steffy and Hope, and I'm not sure why Bridget was written out of the show.

By the time she was written out, there was no one left to pair her with. The show was nearly all Forresters by then, Jack Wagner had one foot out the door and the only two Spencer men at the time were both involved with members of her family.

But there was no reason to kill Phoebe off for cheap drama. It was ridiculous--when we got the inevitable flashbacks, the ones with her and Steffy came from the only scene Mauzy and Wood ever shared together.

[Anna Yolei]

23 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

Not sure if it's possible that Macy had a child by Thorne after her first presumed dead disappearance but if she did that kid would be the perfect age to come back in the twentysomething scene.

Macy and Thorne very infamously had problems conceiving. I remember this because Thorne in one of the two times he came off as stupid as Ridge actually fixed his mouth to suggest he and Macy raise Darla's baby as their own because they'  been trying for one. She rightfully slapped him into next Tuesday.

18 hours ago, thewhiteowl said:

Brooke has acted with malice but not often. I would say that what makes me not like her is more that she's thoughtless of others when she's chasing whatever is her current destiny and her seeming entitlement to it, regardless of who gets hurt.  That's not saying she deserves terrible things to happen to her but I just don't care that much when they do.  JMO

Historically, that's been my issue with Brooke too. It's one thing to do something incredibly shitty one time, like Bridget testing Nick and Brooke with her abortion lie (and given that Breacon was still recent history, it's not that much of a reach to understand why she did it). It's another thing when the dumb shit keeps happening--not the "stealing" of Forrester men, but shit like emotional affairs with Bill while fighting Katie and telling her she's paranoid.

Still, she gets some consequences. Unlike Taylor where the worst that happened to her for Darla's death was a ripped wedding dress (and she had started eyeing up Nick well before that. What a lucky break for her! ?)

[TobinAlbers]

28 minutes ago, Anna Yolei said:

Still, she gets some consequences. Unlike Taylor where the worst that happened to her for Darla's death was a ripped wedding dress (and she had started eyeing up Nick well before that. What a lucky break for her! ?)

She also had to endure stalker Lorenzo Lamas becoming obsessed with her and the house fire...thing so she got some kind of karma for it.

No one deserved to find out that the child they carried was biologically the child of their hated rival AND have that rival once again come into her marriage to start shit with her husband and tell her she was being a shitty parent. Granted the writing did Taylor no favors in having her 'not bond' with Jack and be stupid enough to get involved with Nick when everyone knew he was obsessed with Brooke, but Taylor paid in spades for that crap. It was stupid to make her not see Jack as hers and allow a real custody battle where Taylor wanted Jack and was determined to be his mother no matter what Nick wanted or was trying to manipulate. It would've been something for Taylor to get custody and bounce from L.A. leaving Nick with a very bitter pill to swallow for all his stupidness.

32 minutes ago, Anna Yolei said:

Macy and Thorne very infamously had problems conceiving. I remember this because Thorne in one of the two times he came off as stupid as Ridge actually fixed his mouth to suggest he and Macy raise Darla's baby as their own because they'  been trying for one. She rightfully slapped him into next Tuesday.

True. But maybe they could tweak their issues conceiving being that Macy in her previous MIA stint had Thorne's kid, gave it up and because she didn't know where it was didn't tell Thorne upon her return and that's why she was so desperate to have a child with him for 2.0 to 'make up for it'.

Kind of want Bobbie Eakes back as Macy to see her lead the Spectra's and be a true rival for Brooke. Brooke had power over Katie as her sister but Macy gave no damns and HATED Brooke. Macy coming back with Thorne's adult kid would be a HUGE deal for him. 

Actually Macy and Bill could be an amazing ruthless no holds barred power couple. I could see them going from hating each other to breaking his desk in no time flat. Their mutual hatred of the Forresters would power their schemes.

[grisgris]

I would love it if Macy came back. Sally could still be the face and lead designer Spectra, but face it, they would definitely benefit from a seasoned pro like Macy to run the business. But ... I figure that's what Thorne was brought back for. You know that Ridge is going to scoff at "Little Brother's" designs and balk at producing the Aly line under the FC brand.

Edited December 3, 2017 by grisgris

[Petunia13]

Plot twist: Thorne has a long lost daughter. Her name is Darlita. 

[Gam2]

As much as I’d love that, I think we’ve had enough adult children arriving to tell their dads that they they’re here. Hi, my long lost Dad!

[Anna Yolei]

2 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

No one deserved to find out that the child they carried was biologically the child of their hated rival AND have that rival once again come into her marriage to start shit with her husband and tell her she was being a shitty parent. Granted the writing did Taylor no favors in having her 'not bond' with Jack and be stupid enough to get involved with Nick when everyone knew he was obsessed with Brooke, but Taylor paid in spades for that crap. It was stupid to make her not see Jack as hers and allow a real custody battle where Taylor wanted Jack and was determined to be his mother no matter what Nick wanted or was trying to manipulate. It would've been something for Taylor to get custody and bounce from L.A. leaving Nick with a very bitter pill to swallow for all his stupidness.

The whole story from top to bottom was a hot ass mess. Taylor needed an infant child like I need another hole in my head or a Bridge reunion. And rather than having Nick hide the truth from her, it would have been more interesting if they'd done what Ridge and Caroline did and conceal the truth from Brooke together--then, months later after Taylor has bonded have the medical emergency that needed Brooke's DNA. Of course, Brooke and Nick couldn't bond over their mutual child together if that happened. ?

I agree it's the one instance Taylor has every right to hate Brooke unequivocally for interfering in, especially when Jack spent more time with Bridget and even Katie during that brief relationship than he ever did with Brooke once she got custody. Much like what Liam has in his future, I agree it was far too high a price for her other shit behavior.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Anna Yolei

[TobinAlbers]

2 hours ago, Petunia13 said:

Plot twist: Thorne has a long lost daughter. Her name is Darlita. 

Ha! He'd be two for two having a daughter named after a dead wife. (Aly being named after Macy). 

But Ingo's Thorne all smiling and eye twinkling and protective daddy over his newfound daughter would be great. I just couldn't get excited about Ingo's Jax being father to Josslyn over on GH given her mother is Carly. 

And it's still much less skeevy than Ridge's hooking up with the namesake niece of his dead wife- and I liked CaRidge.

Darn this show. CaRidge, Tasha, Olly, Brill. Couples blown up for no real damn good reason other than short term story twists with no long term repercussions. 

[CountryGirl]

Friday's show (12/1/17) was just awful, so, sorry, but I can't bring myself to do a full recap.

In the same breath Gelding is warning Hauxdi not to tell Waffles the truth, he's telling her she should be with him.

So how exactly would the "not telling" Liam part work?

Later, we have to have more weeping and blubbering from Daffy Duck lips to her clueless dolt of a husband and having the utter gall to beg him to LOVE HER after she fucked his father. Just when I think she can't possibly stoop any lower, she grabs a shovel and digs deeper.

There is no way in hell she's actually going to confess anytime soon - if at all.

And even if she gave it a half-assed try, I can just envision the conversation:

Steffy (starting to cry): "Bill took me to the stables."

Liam: "What?

Steffy: (blubbering now): "We rolled around in the hay."

Liam: "Huh?"

Steffy (even more blubbering): "I rode his pony." 

Liam: "Steffy, I don't understand what you're saying, but it's OKAY because you're PERFECT and it's all MY fault and I WUV you! Let's renew our vows again!"

The two bright spots were Darlita getting some more screen time as she and Coco continued to rehash the Liam/Sally situation and, of course, the continuation of the Lally (or is it Siam?) conversation.

Sally: "This may be a bad idea and none of my business, but you and Steffy seemed really happy at Thanksgiving...and I know people put up a front sometimes, you know, on special occasions, or in front of family...and I just want to make sure that..." She sighs, flustered. "I'm really not saying this right."

Liam, gently: "You're doin' fine." 

Sally: "It's just that things really ARE okay." I'd be skeptical, too, Sal. So should Liam, but we all know he's not the brightest star in the sky. "Yes, I know you said you guys renewed your vows and that's great, you know, but that could have been..."

Liam finishes for her: "Desperation." Yes, exactly.

Sally: "I just really don't like it when people break things and walk away...I'm just really relieved to know I didn't do that." No, she didn't. Steffy did that and fucked her father-in-law to boot.

Later, he thanks her for stopping by and the two stand and face each other.

Sally: "Thank you for not slamming the door in my face." Why would he ever do that? Liam just laughs. Sally turns serious: "It's a shame..."

Liam, confused: "What?"

Sally: "That we can't be friends." 

Liam doesn't understand: "We can be friends...wait..what are we then?" You're bonded for life, that's what you are.

Sally: "I mean, we're not going to be hanging out together. You and Steffy are not gonna have me over for pizza and beer and bowl games...and we're gonna be very aware of who's watching us when we do run into each other." 

Liam: "Yeah, okay...it'll be like that for a minute, but in time-"

Sally, knowing the score all too well, "In time, the things that brought us together are no longer gonna be there." That hurt to hear. Liam doesn't know what to say to that but his uncomfortable expression speaks volumes.

Sally, gracious and classy as ever, lets him off any hook he think's he might be on, "Look, it's okay...it's how it has to be. But I do make this promise to you..." Here, she steps closer to look him right in the eye, mere inches between them. "If you need me...for any reason at all...I will be there and I do not give a damn who knows it." 

LOVE that so, so much and you can tell Liam loves it, too.

She's so damn protective of him, without vows, without the titles of husband and wife. Because vows and titles aren't necessary. What they experienced in the rubble is a ceremony all its own.

They share a smile before Sally turns and struts toward the door like the boss she is. He turns to watch her go and they share one more quick look before she opens, then closes the door, and it's obvious as he stands there, thinking of just how remarkable she is, that his traitorous wife is the furthest thing from his mind.

Although I did have to crack a smile at JMW's tweet to SC, offering to send Liam this:

Edited December 4, 2017 by CountryGirl

[TobinAlbers]

38 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

Steffy (even more blubbering): "I rode his pony." 

Somewhere the 'Stallion' is seething in anger. I'm a big horse, damnit!

39 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

Although I did have to crack a smile at JMW's tweet to SC, offering to send Liam this:

That.is.fan.tastic! I love when the cast reminds all of us that they realize the absurdity of their soap and have fun with it.

Damn, Steffy, could've at least sprung for a better decorated cake.

[MulletorHater]

And, I'm calling it now.  Hope returns just in time for Liam to be the hypotenuse in yet another triangle, this time with two young women who are actually root-worthy.  The Gelding will tell his slag that Hope has "given [them] a gift and now [they] can finally be together."  You know how these writers love to recycle things, and they have been having themselves a ball recycling Bill's dialogue to Brooke and trying to pigeonhole the same dialogue into Swill's train ride to hell.  Skankerella will climb on board "kicking and screaming" and trying to explain to her pappy how all of this happened.

Le sigh....poor DD.  Relegated to the JV team while IR gets to play on the varsity team with the adults.  

Of, course, like her Teflon-coated mama before her, Skankerella will have an escape hatch.  Every time Taylor wanted to confess something (i.e. Big Bear Baptism, Darlagate, etc.), she had a team of pinch hitters ready to fall on their swords for her.  I guess Skankerellla will also have a ready-made excuse if the truth about Aly and the cover-up comes out.  She wanted to tell...but...but...but...

[Waldo13]

Where are the tears Stuffy?  Hyperventilating is not an emotion is a reaction. 

Of course Stuffy didn't come clean to Liam  
she's just a soulless witch.  Beside it would out of character for Stuffy because she does what she wants when she wants without remorse.  Stuffy only feigns remorse.  

Thorne Thorne go away don't come back another day.  I'm sorry, but his blue eyes are his only attribute. He gives me a predator vibe. He doesn't look at things he scopes them out. 

[TobinAlbers]

1 hour ago, MulletorHater said:

Le sigh....poor DD.  Relegated to the JV team while IR gets to play on the varsity team with the adults.  

What I want to know is the timing of the swerve to Still and the casting of Ingo.

Did DD know when the writing was on the wall that Brill was over and Still was happening that yet another hot ABC acquired stud was coming to play in Bill's pasture? Or did he think maybe he'd get to play between his two loves Brooke and Steffy AND family drama with Liam and Wyatt with Bill being a driving force front and center?

With Brooke firmly gone, Bill's been subbed into Wyatt's position in a triangle opposite Liam-although to be frank this triangle makes more sense and utilizes Bill much better AND allows several angles to be played. AND DD and JMcW have wanted Still revisited and seen through for years so they're probably not too upset this is happening as Still did happen first. And given his story for the last 2-3 years, he may be okay on the JV team with JMcW and SC as it's front burner and he may get some of that reflected mojo from SC to score an Emmy nod and win. DD's been putting in the werk.

Liam ain't finding out about Still's bonk until AFTER Steffy finds out she's pregnant. He's going to have the joy of an idea of a 'second chance' child with Steffy before it's cruelly ripped away from him.

Edited December 4, 2017 by TobinAlbers

[MulletorHater]

34 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

What I want to know is the timing of the swerve to Still and the casting of Ingo.

Did DD know when the writing was on the wall that Brill was over and Still was happening that yet another hot ABC acquired stud was coming to play in Bill's pasture? Or did he think maybe he'd get to play between his two loves Brooke and Steffy AND family drama with Liam and Wyatt with Bill being a driving force front and center?

With Brooke firmly gone, Bill's been subbed into Wyatt's position in a triangle opposite Liam-although to be frank this triangle makes more sense and utilizes Bill much better AND allows several angles to be played. AND DD and JMcW have wanted Still revisited and seen through for years so they're probably not too upset this is happening as Still did happen first. And given his story for the last 2-3 years, he may be okay on the JV team with JMcW and SC as it's front burner and he may get some of that reflected mojo from SC to score an Emmy nod and win. DD's been putting in the werk.

Liam ain't finding out about Still's bonk until AFTER Steffy finds out she's pregnant. He's going to have the joy of an idea of a 'second chance' child with Steffy before it's cruelly ripped away from him.

I've wondered about the timing of it myself especially since as "recently" as August, DD and KKL did a joint interview promoting Brill and stating that they foresaw the honeymoon not ending for the couple anytime soon.

Yet, Brooke was relegated to spectator status while JMW was inexplicably EVERY FUCKING WHERE, from the moment Stuffy orchestrated her brother's breakup with his girlfriend to when she and Bill "rescued" two people who nearly died because of his actions.  Every time she had her ass propped up in Bill's office, it was obvious that the writers' were chemistry testing them.  They had IT years ago, but now?  Just no.

I also believe that the abrupt departure of PF opened up some "opportunities" to revisit Swill and Sally was left in limbo.  Plus, with the departure of Zende's portrayer, I'm sure some money was freed up to bring in a big hitter like IR, whom I understand B&B had been courting for some time for a short-term role.  Even if the actor and "actress" promoting Swill believed it should be revisited, I think it was a gross miscalculation on Bradley's part to have listened to them.  This is one of those instances where something may look good on paper and sounds good in production, but ends up being poorly executed when it finally hits the screen.  While Swill's "animalistic" call to the wild may have been long overdue for some, it left a bad taste in the mouths of many fans, as was evidenced by the piss-poor ratings those 2 days received.  Bill's descent into blatant criminality was a compelling enough story to tell on its own without his having to dip his wick into the rotted parts of his DIL.  Nor, does it help that the head idiot in charge made it his mission to devalue and totally discount Bill's other relationships to prop Swill/Stuffy.   That left a particularly bad taste in people's mouths as well.  It seems to me that once writers make a decision to do shit like that (including recycling 5 years' worth of dialogue from another story), the pairing is already doomed and the writers are signaling that from jump.  Stuffy's initial reaction to waking up next to Bill told me everything I needed to know.  She thought it was a sleazy event and that's what was conveyed to the audience.  Bradley strikes me as the type of writer who makes up shit as he goes along just to get him through the next sweeps and news cycles.  Then he panics when the shit isn't working (i.e. Summer of Sheila) and shakes things up.  

If the ratings pick up for this mess, maybe the principals' calculation will be vindicated but right now I seriously doubt it.  Just the thought of JMW trying to emote as she attempts to convey what is supposed to be angst about an inconvenient--and very predictable--pregnancy isn't exactly something to look forward to.  Nor, does it help that she is the weakest link in this ever-evolving mess.  SC has done some very stellar work and so has DD.  Yet, this particular storyline arc does the Liam character no favors whatsoever.  And, when one considers who the hypotenuse of this so-called triangle is supposed to be, the whole thing makes even less sense despite the over-the-top and constant propping of someone so basic and unappealing.

But, I guess we'll see.

[Anna Yolei]

1 hour ago, MulletorHater said:

Bradley strikes me as the type of writer who makes up shit as he goes along just to get him through the next sweeps and news cycles.  Then he panics when the shit isn't working (i.e. Summer of Sheila) and shakes things up.  

Ain't that the gospel truth!

Being this level of fickle is something that's started in the last five years after SF and RM's departures and Bradley couldn't lean on Stephanie lifting the entire cast (and especially Bridge). Before that, B&B had the distinct honor of being the only soap in the genre that relied too much on its vets to the detriment of a poorly developed young adult cast.

As far as Still goes, this shit show doesn' even have the question of whether either party loves the other, and that among every other aspect of this pairing makes it unpleaant to watch in a way I haven't felt since the equally failtastic Kringe Kridge.

I feel like they've also ripped off the Breacon affair without understanding why that worked: apart from the actors' chemistry together, the writing supported the idea that they both had an attraction and that were not for the pain of destroying Bridget, they  could be together. And honestly, Deacon was wasted on Bridget, but that's besides the point: Brooke cared enough about Bridget to go through with the sham wedding to Whip to hide Hope's paternity and Deacon begrudgngly  supported that as the best decision. Because he loved Brooke. Bill OTOH is STILL stuck on the fact that Liam never should have stood u to him to begin with, and I'll put odds on Bill spilling the beans about baby Still if he thinks it'll get Steffy into his bed again--or just as likely, sic nuHope on him and let Liam's waffling do the rest.

[Gudzilla]

Why create a completely new character and call him Thorne ? 

Thorne does not design.

Thorne is not desired by models.

Thorne does not return because he's "up to something"

Thorne stays in the basement.

Thorne puts the lotion in the basket .............. sorry I got a little off track there.

[SimplePleasures]

5 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

Damn, Steffy, could've at least sprung for a better decorated cake.

Yeah!  Those frosting balloons are making my teeth hurt just looking at them.

[Anna Yolei]

51 minutes ago, Gudzilla said:

Why create a completely new character and call him Thorne ? 

Thorne does not design.

Thorne is not desired by models.

Thorne does not return because he's "up to something"

Thorne stays in the basement.

Thorne puts the lotion in the basket .............. sorry I got a little off track there.

On that tangent, I miss having characters from all kinds of career paths on this show. Caroline was a reporter, Macy was a singer, Taylor was (barely) a therapist, and Bridget was a doctor and the only one of Eric's children who doesn't pounce on any illness to move up the Forrester food chain.

Literally every new character I've seen in my neary two decades of viewership either becomes a designer or gets heavily involved in fashion whether they have a place to fit or not. Amber being Rick's wife and getting her line...sure, whatever. Nick Marone becoming so invested in making Jackie M work that he goes out to recruit the woman who nearly killed his mother into their company (with even less acknowledgement of their history than Rick and Ridge's one line to put aside pissing on one another to piss on Quinn)? Way more of a stretch. 

[TessHarding2]

Who thinks Steffy will continue crying until New Year's Eve?

Puzzling as to why Jax is on B&B (that's a GH thing). LOL.

[Kemper]

Saw those pictures up above of the Steffy character...is it me, or does she look like a Geisha?  

[TobinAlbers]

1 hour ago, Anna Yolei said:

and I'll put odds on Bill spilling the beans about baby Still if he thinks it'll get Steffy into his bed again--or just as likely, sic nuHope on him and let Liam's waffling do the rest.

Thiiiiiiis. Bill is working hard to play like their actions aren't malicious - simply destiny and fate and the way things are 'meant to be'. He really would have no problem spilling the truth to Liam to 'right' things or steal his grandchild if it'll get him Steffy because 'they belong together/ loved each other first' and Liam can't handle her.

Bill will 'suddenly' realize how wrong he was about Hope and how she is a match for Liam- because he'll want Steffy for himself. 

Bill's always been a truthtelling asshole but he's moving into ? with a quickness. On the best soaps he'd be past the point of no return but with Quinn still on canvas and grandson stealing Ridge still on, whatever Bill's heinous transgressions he'll keep on keepin' on.

And the sad thing is the way he's being written now, I can't believe Bill would really suffer or feel the loss of what was once his beloved son in his life. Steffy is suddenly THE most important thing. With the exception of when she was dazzled by Adam's amnesiac peen, the one thing I could say about Quinn is that she loves Wyatt and would literally cut a bitch for him. Bill is all talk but no real substance or depth when it comes to his sons anymore. It's really sad.

[Videnbas]

On 2017-12-04 at 0:21 AM, TobinAlbers said:

True. But maybe they could tweak their issues conceiving being that Macy in her previous MIA stint had Thorne's kid, gave it up and because she didn't know where it was didn't tell Thorne upon her return and that's why she was so desperate to have a child with him for 2.0 to 'make up for it'.

Kind of want Bobbie Eakes back as Macy to see her lead the Spectra's and be a true rival for Brooke. Brooke had power over Katie as her sister but Macy gave no damns and HATED Brooke. Macy coming back with Thorne's adult kid would be a HUGE deal for him. 

Actually Macy and Bill could be an amazing ruthless no holds barred power couple. I could see them going from hating each other to breaking his desk in no time flat. Their mutual hatred of the Forresters would power their schemes.

 

ITA agree about this. It would take some explaining why Macy would have done such an OOC thing as giving up a child when she had been struggling for years to conceive, but maybe some shady doctor in Italy kidnapped the infant and fed her some story that it was stillborn due to fetal alcohol poisoning and Macy felt guilty enough never to mention it to anyone.

I would be ecstatic to see Bobbie Eakes as Macy back to head the Spectra family and be a real rival to Brooke. Brooke needs one and she hasn't one in years (not counting Katie since they are sisters and always make up in the end). KKL and BE had great "enemy chemistry" and I always thought that rivalry was cut short just when it was getting intense. And I could definitely see a "hate attraction" between Macy and Bill.

[Cindylou]

call me crazy, but Steffy looks a lot more attractive WITHOUT all that dang make up.  I mean I thought for a second today during her whine fest of not telling the truth, she was actually a pretty girl (KILL ME NOW)  and if she'd hold back on the enhancements she could be a beauty.

[ByaNose]

13 hours ago, Gudzilla said:

Why create a completely new character and call him Thorne ? 

Thorne does not design.

Thorne is not desired by models.

Thorne does not return because he's "up to something"

Thorne stays in the basement.

Thorne puts the lotion in the basket .............. sorry I got a little off track there.

Yeah, that out of the blue flirting and chatting up the models was so out of character. Actually, it was Ronn Moss's Ridge who did all of that. I don't even think the models ever gave any of the Thorne's a second glance when Ronn Moss Ridge was front and center. Let alone TK version of Ridge.

[La di Diva]

Maybe the time in Paris changed more than his looks.  ; )

He took stock and decided to change his life.  He was out from Ridge's shadow. Stretched himself by studying design and being mentored by top European designers. He has a successful boutique label so I'm sure his confidence is way up.

Thorne was always good looking (esp WH), nice, kind and an all around good guy -- definitely a notRidge.  I can see the models responding to that.  They probably noticed him back in the day.  I'm sure they have all heard about Ridge's reputation,  Thorne's different.  Charming, but not smarmy like Ridge.

And he mentioned Ally again on Mon!!!

I'd love to see Thorne connected in some way to Darlita  but not as her father.  I know Darla was very blonde but could Darlita be a cousin or niece or something?  Maybe Darlita's mother was Darla's childhood BFF and named her after Darla.  Darlita =  little Darla.

[ByTor]

3 hours ago, Cindylou said:

call me crazy, but Steffy looks a lot more attractive WITHOUT all that dang make up.

Not crazy at all, I think she looks really good with so much less makeup & I like the way she's been wearing her hair pulled back.  The shrieking though?  Yikes!  I had a migraine when I watched Friday's show, and I had to put it on mute, my head couldn't take it.

[Cool Breeze]

Either IR's Thorne will revert to his never-winning, bland personality or he will be shipped off back to Paris.  IR's Thorne is light-years ahead of TK's Ridge in attractiveness, charm, etc.  If the show doesn't take advantage of this to reboot Thorne, beyond his relatively newfound desire to design, TPTB should be fired.  

Or, I suppose TK could call it quits.  I can't see him being ok with being upstaged by a B&B newcomer.  But, upstaged he is.  TK has never ever worked as Ridge.  Looks aside, his characterization of Ridge is brusque, mean-spirited and charmless.  At least RM had his looks, was pretty good at light humor and had a degree of charm.  TK has none of that.  And it's going to become increasingly apparent when he and IR square off.

[LittleIggy]

I don’t like the new Thorne. IMO, the actor comes off as vaguely menacing. Was he a villain on whatever soap he used to be on (I know nothing about him)? 

[CountryGirl]

I only caught a few minutes of yesterday's show.

Enough to confirm what we already know - lying heifers are gonna keep lying.

Not to mention putting the UGLY in ugly cry:

And here's the moment when the lightbulb went on that no matter how she broke it down, Liam was never gonna get it (whoo whoo whoo whoo!) and she could continue getting off scot-free:

All her crocodile tears dried up...just like that (TM Brooke).

Aannnnd she's still thinking about $ Bill.

[grisgris]

I could get behind IR Thorne exchanging in some light flirting with the FC models but not taking it any further.  (It was always implied that Ridge routinely bedded the house models.) WH's Thorne respected all FC employees and always brought up how he knew each employee's name, details about their families, etc. That tack always came up when Thorne was pointing out what a callous elitist snob Ridge was.

I have been watching some old B&B on YT and there were scenes of JMW in the early years and I truly did not recognize her. She really was a very beautiful young woman and in many ways, resembled a young unblemished Hunter Tylo. It is a crime what both of them have done to their faces. JMW looks like she attempted some type of cosmetic procedures to change her face from an oval/almost heart shape to something more squarish and angular. I am still waiting for one or both to show up on an episode of "Botched!"

[drivethroo]

We never saw Thorne doing whatever he does in the basement so we don't know if he was flirting with people at Forrester or not.  Thorne is a relatively attractive rich guy who is a Forrester so I don't see why he wouldn't have gotten any play from models, basement workers or whoever.  He just didn't attract as much attention as Ridge.