B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[bannana]

2 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

I know this storyline is going to give me fits.  Why Bell Jr. thinks it's a good idea for RE to do any of the heavy-lifting, acting wise is beyond me.  And I call bullshit on trying to involve Coco in this story.  Nicole has only known her a minute.  What this story needs is Sasha.  Because Sasha would be the one person who remembers just how quickly Nicole dropped Lizzie in Maya's arms so she could hot-foot it after ZZZZZZende.

Oh and speaking of Lizzie...We're supposed to believe that Nicole is being tortured by dormant 'maternal' feelings for Lizzie that have suddenly sprung to life.  In reality, Nicole is talking about Lizzie as if she's a pair a shoes she gave to Maya but regretted giving them away because she just got a new outfit and those shoes would look soooooooooo cute with it.  Has Nicole given a second's thought to what taking her away from the only parents she's ever known is going to do to Lizzie? 

Rick and Maya may be due some 'karma' but nobody deserves to lose their child, especially to a half brain dead imbecile with fucked up hair.  What has Lizzie done to deserve that kind of punishment?  How can Nicole say she wants to be Lizzie's 'mama' when she hasn't given a single thought to what she's doing to that baby?

Holy Shit, Carter, you should be disbarred!

Julius, you are a horrible father.  Where or where is Vivien?

It doesn't matter if we all hate Rick and Maya, their reactions were completely bang on.  Maya angry, then petrified.  Rick angry and frustrated.  I agree this is karma, but Nicole stupidly agreed, and she doesn't get to rethink it now.  Argh, perhaps it is my anger at Chloe on DOOL coming through.

Wait, wasn't it five minutes ago that you said you would keep Nicole's confidence, Coco?

[AngelKitty]

I'm sorry to admit this but I fast forwarded through the whole show. I just do not care about the baby story. It doesn't even make any sense as it seems that they could get a surrogate for her egg and Zende's sperm.

[ByaNose]

53 minutes ago, AngelKitty said:

I'm sorry to admit this but I fast forwarded through the whole show. I just do not care about the baby story. It doesn't even make any sense as it seems that they could get a surrogate for her egg and Zende's sperm.

and, Sasha will be the carrier.

[MulletorHater]

12 hours ago, ByTor said:

Because Carter almost married Maya?  Sorry, that's all I got :)

Well, with some families, if you've dated someone, was engaged to someone, or had a baby with someone, you're considered family.  My own family is like that.  We're so close to some people that it's hard for strangers sometimes to tell who is kin and who actually isn't.

Now, about Carter.   Carter was way too fine to be wasted on Maya especially when she had dollar signs where her eyeballs should have been.  BTW--is there some reason that an adoption or family law practitioner wasn't used in this instance instead of the FC all-purpose lawyer and sometime justice of the peace?  Or, will this be treated as a simple tort, i.e. breach of a contract because Nicole wants to treat Lizzie like a doll that she loaned to her sister and now wants back?

[sugarbaker design]

2 hours ago, AngelKitty said:

I'm sorry to admit this but I fast forwarded through the whole show.

I FF'ed and I'm definitely not sorry.  The B story taking up a whole episode?  Bad move production!  You're going to bleed viewers.

[ByTor]

10 hours ago, ByaNose said:

I thought RE did a fine job today. She's come a long way & has improved a lot.

I'm sorry, I can't agree with this.  I thought she was better in her "Secret secret I've got a secret"" (thanks, Styx, for the inspiration!) wannabe model, dancin' fool (RIP Frank Zappa) days.  Now, she stares with a blank face and monotones her lines, whether she's saying "I want Lizzie back" or "I think I want Raisin Bran Crunch for breakfast".

27 minutes ago, MulletorHater said:

 Carter was way too fine to be wasted on Maya

I recall many, many times saying to my TV "If you don't want him send him my way!"

[Nancypants]

3 hours ago, AngelKitty said:

I'm sorry to admit this but I fast forwarded through the whole show. I just do not care about the baby story. It doesn't even make any sense as it seems that they could get a surrogate for her egg and Zende's sperm.

Church. Have you seen the thred called "things more interesting then Zencole?

[Gam2]

Nicole, despite the fact that you gave birth to Lizzie (an incredible gift to your sister and her husband), you are not her mother. Maya is her mother who's raised her, loved her, fed her, changed her diapers, taken her to the doctor, rejoiced in each tiny step of her growth, stayed up all night with her when she was unwell and a million other things that mothers do. And your father needs to stop telling that you are her mother. I don't understand his motivation for doing that but he's wrong. You babysat for her for a few days while her parents were away. That does not make you her mother.

[nasir jones]

I'm not sure which needs more work... Coco's acting or her posture.  To be fair, I'm not even certain she's a bad actress since I either mute or FF through her scenes.

It's one thing to go to a tanning booth, but it's another to be covered in Cheeto dust.  Thomas looked completely ridiculous/orange.  That entire scene was ridiculous.  "Let's sweat to death in the office to the point we have to strip instead of going home."

Zende enjoyably standing up to Rick was offset by the complete abomination known as RE's wig/acting.

[Anna Yolei]

6 hours ago, AngelKitty said:

I'm sorry to admit this but I fast forwarded through the whole show. 

Don't be. The story sucks, the pacing is too little too late, and even if they'd been a bit more timely on this, I still wouldn't give a shit because everyone involved in this story sucks ass. The only reason it doesn't beat out the Hope/Liam/Steffy black hole of suckitude for second worst story ever penned for this show is because we at least don't see Nicole and Company eating up the screen for months at a time with no break.

Julius makes Stephanie look like June Clever in his favoritism of Nicole over Maya. I'm surprised he hasn't told her she's the most important woman in his life yet, sheesh.

[Pickles]

Sally and Thomas are both the color is Sally's hair. The Nicole/baby storyline is ridiculous. Hire a surrogate and go away! 

[nkotb]

58 minutes ago, nasir jones said:

Zende enjoyably standing up to Rick was offset by the complete abomination known as RE's wig/acting.

Who'd have thought that the best part of our show today would be Zende?? Him backing Napoleon down from yelling at Nicole was the best scene in today's show, & maybe Zende's best scene ever.

I know this Nicole storyline is really grating on people's nerves, but I think it's pretty realistic. Full confession: I went through a multi-year fertility struggle, before we were able to conceive naturally, on our own, (twice!) so I might be biased. However, from my personal experience, it is very realistic of Nicole to be so devastated that she can't have children that she will do anything to have a child, even if it means going back on her word to her sister & brother-in-law, who is the bio-dad. There was a time when I hated getting on social media, because every pregnancy announcement was like a dagger to the heart, and that's on the milder end. 

The unrealistic part is that no one has suggested a surrogate or adoption, including Zende, the potential father, who was adopted, & Nicole, who was a surrogate, which is what made her have fertility issues to begin with. Another full confession: we don't have Forrester money, I know, it's a tragedy & probably a shocker, but if we did, we would have not batted an eyelash about adopting or hiring a surrogate when we were trying to conceive. 

[CountryGirl]

Recap for Tuesday, 6/20/2017:

It's pretty much the Ambien show today, folks, with a little bit of Coco and Carter sprinkled in.

We open in the FC CEO office where Rick is telling Zende they just need Nicole's signature on Lizzy's adoption papers and the issue will be behind them.

Rick: "Maya and I, we've already signed. We just need Nicole's signature and this should all be wrapped up today." I wouldn't be too sure about that, Rick.

Feeling confident, he tells Zende that Nicole will give him the precious gift of a child just as she did with them. This whole "giving Zende a child" just rubs me the wrong way. 

We cut to the design office where Maya and Nicole are still facing off.

Maya: "What do you mean, you won't sign the adoption papers?"

Nicole: "I can't."

Maya:" Of course, you can. Nicole, it's a done deal. It was decided long ago."

Once again, Nicole hears the refrain of Lizzy saying "Mama." Honestly, what makes her think Lizzy was referring to her and not Maya when she said "Mama." Particularly when it's a pretty safe bet it's one of the only words she knows at that age.

Nicole hems and haws, saying she doesn't know what to do.

Maya: "I don't know what the hesitation is. But what is wrong? Just sign the papers.  I am confused. I don't know what's going on."

Nicole: "I need more time."

Maya: "For what?" She stops and takes a deep breath. "I'm sorry. I didn't mean to snap. But I don't know why you need more time. It's just a formality. Lizzy is my daughter. Sign the papers."

Nicole seems to have stopped hearing Maya at that point, slowly pacing around the office.

Maya, realizing that something is very, very wrong her, tries to get her sister to open up: "I don't know what's going on, but I know this isn't you. Talk to me. Why is there suddenly a problem signing these adoption papers?"

Nicole: "It's just so unexpected. I thought the adoption was finalized, that it was legally binding."

Maya: "It is finalized. There were just a few errors, so we've corrected them, and now we just need to sign off on it."

Nicole: "I thought it was over. That I couldn't... even if I just -- it was done." This is the first we're hearing of any sort of qualms she had at the time of Lizzy's birth about the agreement.

Maya: "You're not making sense, Nicole. Hey, you can be straight with me, honey. What's going on here?"

Nicole talks about all the time she spent with Lizzy (what a week or so) while they were away, how she looked at her, how she felt in her arms.

Maya: "Nicole, what exactly are you saying?" She looks at her sister and it's clear she knows the answer to that. "Let's just back up a little bit. I know you are going through a really tough time, Nicole, and I feel for you. I do."

Nicole dully: "I know."

Maya: "And  I honestly believe that it's going to work out and that you are gonna be pregnant. It might take a minute, but this has nothing to do with Lizzy's adoption. Rick and I are her parents, and we have been since conception." I cringed when she said "minute," but everything else she said, about her and Rick being Lizzy's parents is absolutely true.

Nicole: "I understand that. But...I am feeling so many things right now, and there are so many thoughts going around in my head, and I don't know what to trust anymore."

Maya tries to squelch the growing panic: "It's okay. It's okay, Nicole. We're all here for you."

Nicole: "I'm trying to be a good person, Maya, and do the right thing, but what that is, I don't know, so I am sorry, but I can't sign those papers right now."

Maya is screaming inside but keeps her composure: "Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm just gonna leave these papers here with you so that you have them when you're ready. But please don't take too long. We need to get this settled." She leaves the office, her mind reeling.

Out in the hallway, Carter mentions the adoption paperwork issue to Julius. AYFKM???? Of all people, he tells Julius? He shouldn't be discussing this with anyone who is not Rick, Maya, or Nicole. He may be fine to look at, but he is dumb as dirt and should be disbarred and fired. And what kind of competent lawyer fucks up adoption papers to the point that said adoption isn't legal and just now discovers it? 

Julius: "These clerical errors around Lizzy's adoption...is it something I should be concerned about?"

Carter: "Oh, no, not at all. Look, these things happen. Sometimes the "t" doesn't get crossed. You inform the parties, you make the correction, they sign off. Everything will be squared away once Nicole adds her signature." As if it's that simple. 

Elsewhere, Coco is working in the design studio and Zende comes in.

They dispense with the small talk as Coco reveals she was looking for him to discuss Nicole.

Zende is actually pleasant to Coco for a change: "You know, I got to say, I'm happy you guys are good friends. She needs some support from us right now. She's going through a lot."

Coco: "Yeah, she told me. I'm sorry. And hopefully it's nothing and everything will work out."

Zende: "Yeah. I'm sure it will. So, why were you looking for me?"

Coco is hesitant, at first: "Um... actually, it was about Nicole and that conversation, but... you know, I really don't know if I should be talking to you about this. I don't want to betray any of her trust." On the one hand, so much for "this won't leave the room" promise but on the other, Zende is Nicole's husband.

Zende: "What's going on?"

Coco: "Okay, I'm only telling you this because I'm actually really concerned about her." Zende's brow furrows. " I'm a little worried about Nicole's relationship with Rick and Maya's daughter." 

She confides that Nicole is starting to spiral out of control because of the infertility issues and Zende agrees her emotions, usually held in check (or due to the fact that she's a robot), are all over the place after getting the diagnosis, not to mention the adoption papers issues.

When Coco asks about the papers, he tells her there were some mistakes and they need to resign everything to make the adoption legal.

Coco: "Well, that's just what Nicole needs, now that all these feelings are surfacing."

Zende: "Yeah. But, you know what, we're gonna be fine. That's why she's got me. I'm her rock. Nicole's always been so strong. She likes to do things herself. That's part of the reason I fell in love with her. But no one should have to go through something like this alone and she won't. I'll be there every step of the way." I do appreciate Zende's speech here.

He tells Coco that Nicole is lucky to have her as a friend: "Someone who knows she needs to be treated sensitively, with understanding and compassion." Coco nods in agreement as he continues, "The last thing my wife needs right now is pressure." 

Back in the CEO office, Rick is just wrapping up a phone call when Maya comes in.

He takes one look at his wife's face and asks her what's wrong. She reveals she was just with Nicole. He asks about the adoption papers and wants to know what happened.

Maya: "I had to leave them with Nicole. I had no choice." All traces of her former anger with Nicole have disappeared and you can sense she's starting to unravel over the fear of losing her daughter.

Rick doesn't understand.

Maya: "Nicole is a wreck. She needs time."

Rick: "Time?"

Maya:" Yes. The thought that she might not be able to have children, the time that she spent with Lizzy while we were away, the fact that we were away -- all of that is weighing on her."

Rick is still confused. "Okay, you lost me at 'had no choice.' Why? We sign the adoption papers and we go on with our life as usual!"

Maya tearfully admits: "Nicole couldn't sign them." Rick's face drops as the reality begins to set in.

Rick is stunned: "I can't believe what I'm hearing. Nicole won't sign."

Maya: "No, I'm sure she will. Like I said, she just needs time." This said as much to reassure him as herself.

Rick: "This shouldn't even be a question."

Maya: "Rick, my sister is going through a very challenging time. She is processing news that could change her whole life. I feel terrible for her!"

Rick: "Yeah, so do I, but to refuse to sign the adoption papers..."

Maya: "She didn't refuse."

Rick: "Lizzy is our daughter!" At those words, the tears come from Maya and you can see she is scared to death. 

Maya: "I know, Rick! I know, and I am frustrated, too! But I don't want to push her. Look, I have to believe that this isn't Nicole and that she's just fragile and that she'll come around because anything else is unthinkable." 

Rick: "You're damn straight, it is. Under any other circumstances, I would handle Nicole with kid gloves. I'd let her work through whatever she needed to work through, but this is Lizzy we're talking about! This is our legal right to our child! Under no circumstances should Nicole hesitate on her part." He heads for the door.

Maya: "Wait. Wait, where are you going?"

Rick: "I'm gonna get those papers signed." Ooooh boy...

Iago, I mean, Julius, is all cozied up to Nicole and cooing about her being Lizzy's real mother and how this issue with the adoption papers isn't a coincidence.

Nicole (weakly) tries to get him to back off but there's no stopping him now, not when he can stick it to Maya as payback for not being the perfect son he could live vicariously through and brag to his cronies at the country club now, and hitch Nicole to a real Forrester's wagon.

Julius: "Don't sign those papers, Nicole. Don't do it."

With that "helpful advice," Julius leaves with Nicole staring at the adoption papers.

A few moments later, Rick storms in, charging toward Nicole, as furious as I've ever seen him.

Rick: "Sign them! Do you have any idea what you've done to your sister?"

Nicole, looking like she just woke up from a nap: "Maya? I -- no."

Rick: "She's covering like she always does. She's giving you the benefit of the doubt, but I know my wife. You scared the hell out of her. What kind of game you playing?"

Nicole: "It's not a game, Rick. I didn't mean to scare Maya. I just --"

Rick: "Look, since day 1, since Lizzy was born, Maya and I, we have been her constants. We are the ones that make her feel safe and secure. Her parents. Every day. Week after week. Month after month. We're Lizzy's world! Have you even thought about her once?" It's a very valid question and if Nicole truly cared about Lizzy as more than just the only baby she might be able to give birth to, she would stop to think about what her literally taking Lizzy from her mother's arms would do to Lizzy. And is Nicole really truly ready for the responsibility of taking care of Lizzy? Babysitting for a few days is not an accurate representation of what child rearing involves. I'm not saying she doesn't care about Lizzy, of course, she does, but all of this sudden need for Lizzy is as much about Zende's baby rabies as it is about wanting to cling to the only child she could physically carry and deliver. Plus, my sense is that adopted or not, Zende wants a baby made from his loins, not that of his uncle, nor the co-parenting implications. Not once has he talked about adoption or gestational carriers.

Nicole erupts at that and finally, RE showed up to work as she tearfully laments: "Have I even thought about Lizzy? Yes, Rick! That is all I have been doing! I love that little girl with everything that I have. You don't know what it's like to carry her with you, to feel her growing, moving, and kicking inside of you! I do! And then I gave her away! And now I find out that I may never be able to have another child..."

Rick backs off momentarily, swallowing hard: "Okay, I understand you're going through a lot right now, and it's scary. You and Zende had beautiful plans for a future that involves family, but that may still happen. The doctors said you may have fertility issues. And miracles happen. We know that they do. And no matter what the outcome, you got to know that your sister and I, we are gonna be there for you, we are gonna support you, we're gonna love you through it because we're your family!" His voice breaks here.

"But one thing you have to understand is no matter what you're struggling with right now, it has zero to do with Lizzy." He is in tears now: "Nothing! I am that little girl's father. Maya's her mother. That's been the consensus from the very beginning. So what you need to do is you need to do the right thing, and you need to sign these papers."

Nicole, looking devastated, is in tears as well: "Rick..."

Rick pleads: "Don't you understand how much I love that little girl? That's our child! I mean, the sun sets and rises around Lizzy, and now you want to threaten it by taking her away from me? No, I'm gonna tell you something right now, Nicole. That's not gonna happen! That's never gonna happen!"

At first, when he stormed in there, I was thinking, simmer down, bull in a china shop, but then I thought about what I would do, what an adoptive parent or their significant other would do, when faced with the utterly terrifying possibility of losing their child. Rick is terrified of Lizzy being taken away from Maya, the only mother she has ever known, and the effect it will have on their family unit. If Nicole were to assert her parental rights and succeed, yes, Rick will still be in Lizzy's life but it will never be the same. That impact cannot be underestimated. Nor the impact to Lizzy, baby or not. So while it's easy to Monday morning quarterback and think he should have been calm and given Nicole some space, there is no way in hell I would be calm in this situation. 

I also can't forget that every child Rick has ever had has been taken from him. His first child with Amber, a little boy, died at birth. Little ABCDE was claimed by his biological father (Deacon), and his second child with Amber, a daughter, was also stillborn. I have to believe that's also part of his reaction - the loss of any child cannot be underestimated (and I get that Lizzy is still his daughter), let alone three children or the possibility of losing time with the only child he reasonably expected to be a part of his life 24/7.

But I do feel for Nicole, too, and would probably feel more for her if RE wasn't even so damn wooden in her performance. I've struggled with infertility (correction - I'm still struggling) and have yet to have a take-home baby, so I can understand her being as okay as one can be with her decision to allow Maya to parent Lizzy with Rick until she's blindsided with the news that she's now a member of a club no one wants to belong to. It is a sign of good storytelling where we can feel for both sides, but RE has limited range and needs to get in the game to make this truly compelling.

Edited June 21, 2017 by CountryGirl

[TobinAlbers]

13 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I also can't forget that every child Rick has ever had has been taken from him. His first child with Amber, a little boy, died at birth. Little ABCDE was claimed by his biological father (Deacon), and his second child with Amber, a daughter, was also stillborn. I have to believe that's also part of his reaction - the loss of any child cannot be underestimated (and I get that Lizzy is still his daughter), let alone three children or the possibility of losing time with the only child he reasonably expected to be a part of his life 24/7.

And given we just had Deacon on, wouldn't it have been a great time to, oh, I dunno, show flashbacks of that time?! Show what Rick went through. We even just showed CJ Spencer and the show could include those flashbacks to show how big that story was and the history Rick has with CJ and Deacon.

Someone on twitter joked that once they finally start talking surrogacy, given that Nicole and Coco have suddenly becomes such good friends she may offer up HER womb. The obviously logical choice would for it to be Sasha but we see how this show approaches logical story beats.

[CountryGirl]

Just now, TobinAlbers said:

And given we just had Deacon on, wouldn't it have been a great time to, oh, I dunno, show flashbacks of that time?! Show what Rick went through. We even just showed CJ Spencer and the show could include those flashbacks to show how big that story was and the history Rick has with CJ and Deacon.

Someone on twitter joked that once they finally start talking surrogacy, given that Nicole and Coco have suddenly becomes such good friends she may offer up HER womb. The obviously logical choice would for it to be Sasha but we see how this show approaches logical story beats.

A golden opportunity missed...not to mention the storyline possibilities for Deacon - I'm mourning Datie, something we never had.

And call me crazy, but I swear I caught a whiff of a vibe between Coco and Zende yesterday. We've speculated about a Rick/Nicole pairing for a long while now, could Zoco be far behind? 

[Waldo13]

Zende is Nicole's rock, her pet rock. Rick keep browbeating Nicole and she'll never sign.  Zende doesn't understand, at all, a woman's love for a child she gave birth to. Especially when she sees that child almost everyday.  Now Nicole is having second thoughts and I feel for her. IMO, it's about Rick & Maya owning Lizzy more than loving her.  How long before Lizzy is sent to boarding school and unheard from for 16 years.  Going get me started on Zende. He doesn't give two shits about Nicole's feelings.  He just doesn't want to raise another man's child.  If he was a male Lion, he would kill Lizzy. 

I love the way Sally looks at Thomas. A good actress actually makes it seem natural unlike someone named Steffy. 

 

Can you imagine giving up a child not once but twice. To me it's double jeopardy. But that just me. 

Edited June 21, 2017 by Waldo13

[Anna Yolei]

On 6/21/2017 at 11:20 AM, Pickles said:

Sally and Thomas are both the color is Sally's hair. The Nicole/baby storyline is ridiculous. Hire a surrogate and go away! 

 Is Agnes around Los Angeles still?

And this right here just sucks the manufactured drama right out. Between Rick and Zende, they can afford a whole football team of surrogates.

That is what always irritate me about this show--they treat biology like it's the end all-be all. The Baby Jack story being the most notorious example. They could've had Taylor find out the mixup early on and she and Nick both decide together not to tell Brooke until the inevitable medical emergency that required Brooke's blood or bone marrow or other organ(s). Instead, we got her giving up custody because he cried too much. ?

I haven't watched today's episode, but it's about damn time Zende is shown actually standing up for Nicole...on anything. I cheer anytime anyone not named Ridge smacks Napoleon Ken Doll down.

On a shallow note, I'm beyond glad that JY/Rick has ditched the beard! It never worked for him and made his neck look short as hell. 

Edited June 23, 2017 by Anna Yolei

[TobinAlbers]

14 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

And call me crazy, but I swear I caught a whiff of a vibe between Coco and Zende yesterday. We've speculated about a Rick/Nicole pairing for a long while now, could Zoco be far behind? 

 If Coco gets fed up babysitting RJ and wants a real man (in body and legal age at least) then maybe so. But then Zende needs to at least be married 6 months before sniffing around someone else. If it opens Nicole's eyes that Sasha wasn't the seductress to blame, but that Zende is a faithless horn dog it may end up being a good thing.

[MulletorHater]

6 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

And given we just had Deacon on, wouldn't it have been a great time to, oh, I dunno, show flashbacks of that time?! Show what Rick went through. We even just showed CJ Spencer and the show could include those flashbacks to show how big that story was and the history Rick has with CJ and Deacon.

Someone on twitter joked that once they finally start talking surrogacy, given that Nicole and Coco have suddenly becomes such good friends she may offer up HER womb. The obviously logical choice would for it to be Sasha but we see how this show approaches logical story beats.

Exactly.  The show is blowing a great opportunity to mine its own history.  I mean, pretty Ricky has only struggled with this issue since his teens.  Not only did the first baby with Amber die, but he was secretly buried, without Rick's knowledge.  To add insult to injury, Amber stole her cousin, Becky's baby, passed him off as the child she gave birth to and knowingly allowed Rick to fall in love with the baby and raise him as his own for months.  I remember thinking at the time that it was beyond cruel.  So, I'm sure that the feeling of deja vu is quite strong.  

I had to laugh at the claim by Coco that Nicole is spinning out of control.  She is?  Um...how can you tell?  Not saying that she should fall out in the middle of the floor and flail about and sing like Jennifer Holliday ("And, I am tellllinnnnggg you--I'M NOT GOINNNNGGG!!") but damn.  Does the girl even register a pulse?  Even when there should be unshed tears, all I get is a blank stare and a pained grimace, no matter the occasion or who is talking to her.

[TobinAlbers]

3 minutes ago, MulletorHater said:

Not saying that she should fall out in the middle of the floor and flail about and sing like Jennifer Holliday ("And, I am tellllinnnnggg you--I'M NOT GOINNNNGGG!!") but damn.  

Oh, this made my afternoon. I really wish Nicole would come out of nowhere belting out this tune after a fight with Rick and Maya.

But then this song totally fits Sasha and her love for Zende and how everyone was trying to push her down and out. Imagine Sasha alone on the Forrester runway after a show, after being dumped by Zende as he walks away with Nicole who throws a 'victorious' smug look back at Sasha as she's left in tears? Cue music and the spotlight.

[Waldo13]

1 hour ago, Waldo13 said:

Deleted. Duplicate post

Edited June 21, 2017 by Waldo13

[ByaNose]

PF has got the worst fake tan ever in daytime. Did he not know he would be shirtless in advance?  He is so ORANGE!!!!! It goes up the back of his neck and then stops. The makeup person should be fired. Not really but that was beyond awful. 

[Gam2]

Kadooz to Zzzzende today for talking some sense to Nicole. Not that she'll listen to him but at least he's tried to inject some common sense into this situation unlike Julius. I still cannot fathom why the writers wrote this story line for him unless it was his passive-aggressive way to punish Maya for no longer being Myron. That may the be case because he never seemed to forgive her/him despite what he's said in the past. This whole thing gives me a migraine which I haven't had in many years. Just too damn stupid. Get these people off of my TV. Or give Nicole another Ambien to finally knock her out. She has to be the worst and most boring actress I've ever seen on a show and that's saying A LOT. 

[grisgris]

I laughed hysterically at that closing scene today. I think Zende was going for a sympathetic "do the right thing," vibe but it came off as a constipated grimace and that widdie 'tashe he's sporting makes him look like a comedic villain in a junior high  play. Nicole, instead of emoting apprehension, just looked vacant and dead. I think maybe her lip quivered a tiny bit.  They are HORRIBLE!!! Get them OFF my screen.

On more than one occasion, I've been behind a mother and child in the grocery store checkout line. The baby has looked at me or anybody else whose eye it could catch and gurgle, "Mama." So, abso-fucking-lutely WORD to whoever said that probably the only word Lizzie (or any infant her age) knows and can easily say.  I take it more that they're associating word-person and not that the kid literally thinks you're its mother.  This crap is getting ridiculous. Lizzie is the child of Maya and Rick. Period. Rick was absolutely correct in that Nicole signed a binding contract and she was given ample opportunities to back out and she didn't.

I wondered the same thing when Coco lamented to Slouchy that she "wished there was something she could do for Nicole." DON'T YOU DARE!  It's one thing to be a surrogate for your sister (and that's a LOT) but to do it for somebody you barely know and whose husband has been rude and insulting too? NO! NO! NO!

The Spectra scenes with Tally were boring and pointless. PF must have it in his contract that he is required to appear shirtless for x-number of episodes.

I'm glad that Zende is trying to convince Nicole to sign the papers. However, I think it's more that it's because he's not Lizzie's bio-dad and little else.

Yep. Something's not working with Maya.  I can't tell if it's her makeup or what. Her hair doesn't look very good either. She's usually flawless. I know she's supposed to be looking harried and distraught but that's not it.

 

[LittleIggy]

5 hours ago, ByaNose said:

PF has got the worst fake tan ever in daytime. Did he not know he would be shirtless in advance?  He is so ORANGE!!!!! It goes up the back of his neck and then stops. The makeup person should be fired. Not really but that was beyond awful. 

He got the Presidential Tan package.

Well, Maya and Rick have nobody but themselves to blame for this by using Maya's young, virgin sister as surrogate. Seriously, those two self-absorbed people thought there would be no repercussions?

[AussieBabe]

Seriously hating this SL with Nicole/Rick/Maya. We adopted our oldest child, and I cannot imagine how I would have felt if her egg donor--err nautral mother had decided to exercise her right to change her mind. I feel both sides because I have a child that I adopted and wouldn't have wanted to lose for anything in the world. (She's almost 18, so that fear is out the window.) But on the other hand, I get that overwhelming love a mother feels for a child she carried. Sometimes it's not always immediate. Sure Nicole gave them Lizzie free and clear which is what surrogates are supposed to do. (It doesn't always work out that way. There have been court cases where surrogates were awarded custody--even of children that were not biologically theirs. There was a case with triplets last year.) I had postnatal depression, and I think monkeys probably felt more warmth towards their babies than I did to my son for the first 9-10 months of his life. I literally felt nothing for the little guy and probably could've handed him off without batting an eyelash. Thankfully, my husband didn't let me do that.. Eventually, I felt something and when it hit, it consumed me. There was nothing that could've stopped that bond or disrupted that love, so on that front, I get it. It doesn't always happen at first sight, but there's a connection. He's one of the few little people in the world who knows my heart sounds like from the inside. I felt him kicking, growing, moving, and watching him sucking his thumb and playing during my doctor's appointments. I felt him moving when he heard my voice.  None of that mattered the first 9-10 months because I was in a fog, but when I got the help I needed and broke down those walls, the floodgates opened like Pandora's Box. I've heard of a mother's love being so strong that even though she gave up a child for adoption 10, 20, 30 years ago, she knew the child when she saw them in a public place. 

Is Nicole's idiot husband even listening to her? Just maybe she doesn't need time because she's selfish, going through a lot, or even trying to hurt anybody. Maybe she does have real regrets and loves her child as more than just an aunt and can't bear the thought of giving her up again even if it's just on paper. Love changes things, and I think signing those papers would be devastating for Nicole this time. There's a reason why she's hesitating. I think the poor girl is on the verge of a mental breakdown, and Rick/Mya yelling at her and demanding that she sign the papers isn't the right approach.  Clerical errors have been a thing for the past year, so a couple of days won't kill them. I wish she would grow a spine and tell them a piece of her mind. I get what some people are saying...she gave Lizzie to them, and they have raised her the past year, but hell, even biological parents who gave up their children for adoption sometimes decide that they made the worst mistake by doing so. What's right? I don't know or care. If Lizzie was 5 years old and had only known Rick and Mya, sure Nicole would look like a jackass and then it could be said that she wasn't being considerate of Lizzie's feelings. Right now, she cares about who's changing her nappy and who's bringing the baby food or bottle. Considering Lizzie was passed around like a hot potato while Rick and Mya were in Paris without incident, who's to say it would be some devastating blow to a one year old? RJ, Coco, Pam/Charlie, Nicole, and Zende all had her during that time, and she wasn't left scarred by it. It's not like she'd be ripping the child from them. Rick is still her father. It's not like Nicole would be completely cutting Mya out of her life. She'd still be her stepmum. They all live in Brooke's house. A judge will always rule for what's in the best interest of the child even if no one else agrees. I don't know where this SL is heading, but I hope it doesn't take over the summer. I don't particularly want to see a custody battle or see Nicole moping around for the next several months. Girl is looking like hell and like she's not sleeping. (Side note: RE was wearing her hair in Monte Carlo this past week. No fugly synthetic wigs, and she looked gorgeous.)

PF's fake tan was awful. Oh gosh. He looked like an oompa loompa. What a waste of Tally today.

[mightysparrow]

It's time the United Nations arrested whoever is doing hair and makeup at B&B for crimes against humanity because...WHAT THE FUCK!  How can anyone involved in that production think that those poor actors look good.  We've all spoken about RE's atrocity of a wig.  Everyone's makeup, male/female, Black/White, looked like it had been troweled on.  Thomas looked like an extra tall Oompa-Loompa.  This has to be deliberate.  Maybe the production staff at B&B are being held hostage and this is a cry for help.  Somebody call the authorities!

Yesterday's episode was a placeholder, full of characters nobody really cares about, doing things that didn't really matter.  I like Sally and Thomas but they've had the 'you rescued me, you're so spunky, we're so hot for each other' conversation numerous times already.  Thomas is a fucking Forrester.  He whipped out his cheque book and wrote a cheque for $100K.  He can't pay to fix the air conditioning?  Or zip down to Home Depot to buy a fucking fan?

When Zzzzzende is the bright spot in an episode, you know Show has reached the point of no return.  Nicole wants to give a child to Zzzzende but he made it clear that he doesn't want THAT child.  RE's performance indicates that Nicole is suffering from some sort of brain injury and is rapidly approaching a catatonic stage.  She shouldn't be thinking about being a 'mama', she should be in an ambulance heading to the nearest emergency room.

I don't care how it happens but Coco and Slouchy need to get the fuck out of this storyline ASAP!  Nicole confided in Coco and she hasn't stopped blabbing.  The state of Nicole's womb is none of Slouchy's business.  And speaking of business, isn't Forrester Creations where all of these imbeciles WORK?  NOBODY WORKS AT FORRESTER CREATIONS!!!! Fuckery.

[Dream Boy]

My God. Nicole is such an idiot. Does she think that, if she doesn't sign the papers, Maya and Rick will just hand Lizzie over to her to raise? There will be a battle for custody where Rick has as much of a leg as she does.  So, is she aiming for a joint custody situation? Because that's not what Julius is selling her. SMH It's obvious that she didn't think this out and neither did these writers. It's amazing that this drab storyline is occuring on the same show that can give us the fun Deacon/Sheila/Quinn caper. More of the latter and less of the former please. 

17 hours ago, MulletorHater said:

Exactly.  The show is blowing a great opportunity to mine its own history.  I mean, pretty Ricky has only struggled with this issue since his teens.  Not only did the first baby with Amber die, but he was secretly buried, without Rick's knowledge.  To add insult to injury, Amber stole her cousin, Becky's baby, passed him off as the child she gave birth to and knowingly allowed Rick to fall in love with the baby and raise him as his own for months.  I remember thinking at the time that it was beyond cruel.  So, I'm sure that the feeling of deja vu is quite strong.  

 

This show's decison to use their history willy nilly frustrates me so much. They did a good job with Sheila's return with some epic flashbacks but totally have not mined the CJ/Rick relationship at all with the return of the Spectras. So strange. 

[grisgris]

I have mixed feelings about Coco. Yes, I think it was OK for her to talk to ZZZzzzende about Nicole but not to Slouchy.  I like the actress, though. However, to me, she seems to convey an aura of measured restraint. It's like she has potential and talent to act rings around the other actors but is having to reign it in rather tightly. Kind of like with Tally and the redundant fawning, penance and lust, Coco's humble gratitude is starting to wear thin.  I hate seeing good talent wasted to prop lesser actors (what else is new on this show, right?)  As an aside note, Coco seems to be the only person at FC who actually works.

I've never had a kid so I can't speak to the maternal bond. I honestly think that Nicole is overreacting. Why isn't she sitting down with Puffy to talk about this? Puffy got her womb back in working order. She would seem to be the best one to be giving advice/support to Nicole over this -- not a teenager Nicole barely knows. I really don't care what happens to that bunch. Just get them off the screen pronto!

[ByTor]

17 minutes ago, grisgris said:

I really don't care what happens to that bunch. Just get them off the screen pronto!

Amen!  For someone who was whining about Sheila coming back, I am now hoping to see Sheila on my screen!

@mightysparrow, my apologies that I can only give your post one "like", so I have to give a shout-out to my especially favorite lines:

" I like Sally and Thomas but they've had the 'you rescued me, you're so spunky, we're so hot for each other' conversation numerous times already."

"RE's performance indicates that Nicole is suffering from some sort of brain injury and is rapidly approaching a catatonic stage.  She shouldn't be thinking about being a 'mama', she should be in an ambulance heading to the nearest emergency room."

[sugarbaker design]

15 hours ago, ByaNose said:

PF has got the worst fake tan ever in daytime. Did he not know he would be shirtless in advance?  He is so ORANGE!!!!!

During the 90's Stephanie used to lurk around the Forrester Mansion in a blond bob and orange skin.  I remember Soap Opera Digest referring to her as Ridge's 'big orange momma'!

[Artsda]

Wow Thomas was orange. lol It was distracting. 

[CountryGirl]

Recap for Wednesday, 6/21/17:

It's another Ambien day.

There is a wee bit of Tally but even that and the sight of a shirtless PF was not enough compensation to watch, let alone, recap this episode.

We open at FC where a frustrated Rick is still trying to convince Nicole to sign the adoption papers. Nicole's wig is so askew that you can see a hint of her natural hairline. The wig knows it's so bad that it's trying to do the walk of shame away from her head.

Rick: "Please, Nicole. Sign the papers. There's no reason not to. Everything's been worked out. I am Lizzy's father. Maya's her mother. But you already know that. So you need to do the right thing. We gave you every opportunity to back out, but you wanted to move forward. And that was a contract. That was a binding contract, just like this one! So sign the papers!" I think he's referring to backing out of being their egg donor/incubator, not backing out from giving Lizzy to them once she was born.

Zende bursts into the design office and it must be said, even though I don't disagree with Rick here and Zende usually makes me want to stab him, it was kind of glorious, hearing this: "You need to back up, Rick. Don't you ever raise your voice to my wife again." 

Nicole numbly: "It's okay, Zende." And it is seriously starting to piss me off how awful Reign is, it really shows when she's in scenes with anyone besides Rome and even he picked it up today.

Zende: "No, it's not okay. You were yelling at her. What the hell is going on, Rick?"

Rick is contrite: "Yeah, I was. I'm sorry. It's just because I'm so damn frustrated! I don't know what you're doing! I don't know why you're threatening my family!"

Zende is confused: "Threatening your family?"

Nicole: "I'm not."

Rick: "Yes, you are, Nicole. You are." 

Zende: "Is this about Lizzy's adoption papers?"

Rick: "Yeah, it is. It's like I said. There were some errors. But this right here (he gestures with the papers), it fixes all the problems, and she won't sign!"

Zende glances askance at his wife but she's as wooden as ever.

Over at the photo studio, Coco is working with RJ and talks about how happy she is working at FC and is up for a little friendly competition with her sister.

Her brow furrows though as she thinks about Nicole. She confides that she's worried about her and that's she discussed her concerns with Zende.

Slouchey seems to get it, but not really, and the more I see the two of them together, the more obvious it is that she's way too mature for him. Anthony is only 16 and, oddly, Courtney's age isn't out there, but I would put her early 20s (especially considering she was a teen on Parenthood some years back).

Rick goes back to the CEO office where an anxious Maya is waiting. She immediately sees he's empty-handed.

Maya: "Something is wrong, rick. Now Nicole's refusing to sign the papers?"

Rick: "She will. Zende's with her right now. She's got to listen to him, right? Lizzy's our... she's our child! We're her parents! And Zende knows that."

Maya is tearful: "I thought Nicole did, too."

Rick takes Maya in his arms and tries to calm her, but Maya is too upset.

Maya: "I feel sick inside, Rick."

Rick: "It's gonna be okay." He sounds more confident than he feels.

Maya: "What if she won't listen to Zende, either?""

Rick, determined: "She will."

Maya: "He wants a family, too."

Rick: "A family of his own. He'll get Nicole to sign."

Maya: "I had a strange feeling when we were in Paris."

Rick: "I don't think it's about when we were away. I think your sister's just wound up and emotional right now, and for good reason. But to bring Lizzy into this? It's just wrong. And she knows that deep down. She doesn't want to take Lizzy away from us." 

Maya: "I know that Nicole is confused and I feel for her. But I won't be able to rest easy until she signs those papers."

Back in the design office, Zende is asking Nicole what's going on with her refusal to sign the papers.

Nicole: "I just need more time."

Zende: "You need more time for what?"

Nicole: "I don't know why this is so hard."

Zende: "I know it's been tough for us lately. The news we got from the doctor, it wasn't what we were expecting. We thought we'd get pregnant right away. Look, I've tried to be supportive. But maybe you need more from me, something I'm not giving you. I could have been more sensitive to you, not so focused on designing."

Nicole: "You've been supportive. It's just...me. And these feelings, I can't really explain them." Or act them. AT ALL.

Zende: "Look, I know Lizzy means a lot to you. She also means the world to Rick and Maya. They are Lizzy's parents." And thank you, Zende, for reminding her of that. 

Zende: "You're dealing with a lot right now. You're still processing what the doctor told you. You don't like to talk about it, but I can see it weighing on you, Nicole. It doesn't have to. We can keep trying. I understand you're overwhelmed dealing with a lot of fear and doubt. You know, Maya and Rick, they want to Paris, and you spent a little more time with Lizzy. Look, it's only natural that that bond would grow stronger."

Nicole: "For nine months. For nine months she was a part of me, Zende."

Zende: "I know. You did a wonderful thing agreeing to be Maya's surrogate. You gave your sister and Rick the most beautiful gift. You helped them become a family. Look, you can't give it to them and then take it away." Especially after all this time.

Nicole: "I know what Rick and Maya want me to do."

Zende: "It's the right thing to do, honey. I know we all thought that the adoption was final. I mean, we know that this is more of a formality than anything."

Nicole: "I know. And I don't mean to scare them. It's just...I can't help it. Literally. Whenever I held Lizzy in my arms, I feel this pull. And what if she feels it, too? She called me mama. (Again, it's the only word she likely knows!) I can't get that out of my head. Her little voice and the way that she looks at me." She looks at a lot of people that way, her parents, her grandparents, Coco, Pam...

Zende gives her a look like OMG, she has gone off the deep end: "Wow. Look, there is no way that I would be able to understand what that feels like for you. Look, I know you're afraid it might not happen again."

Nicole: "What if it doesn't? What if the doctors are right? What if I gave away the only child I'll ever be able to have?" I'm not discounting her feelings, but she has other options, including options to have a biological child.

Zende: "That's a lot of 'what ifs.'"

Nicole: "They just keep popping into my head."

Zende: "Look, what you're feeling right now is a reaction. I know you're worried. But what I'm trying to get you to understand, so are Rick and Maya. They have been raising Lizzy." She avoids his eyes and the truth.

"Look at me. Look, this isn't healthy, honey. All this stress and anxiety, it's not good for you. Right? But you know what? I'm right here, and I ain't going nowhere. We'll get through it together. Let's have our own family, right? When the time is right. But right now... right now, you have to do this."

He walks over to the desk, kissing her hand, then places the pen next to the signature line. Nicole just stares blankly off into the distance and it pisses me off that when she's got this kind of meaty storyline, she's doing whatever a step beneath phoning it in is.

We have a closeup on the adoption papers.

Zende looks at Nicole and she looks back at him, his eyes narrow and between the cheekbones and the eyes, sometimes he reminds me of RM. His look says, "Get on with it, already."

Her looks says blee boop de boop.

Over at SF, a sweaty Thomas is working in the CEO office, with his shirt unbuttoned, exposing a very muscled, very Cheeto chest. I'm not gonna argue about the various ways TPTB conspire to keep up PF's shirtless scenes quota but I draw the line at orange.

And I don't want to be thinking about this:

When I should be admiring the view, which is normally very, very nice.

An equally perspiring Sally takes one look and sighs: "Really? Really? It's not hot enough in here already? You had to make it worse?"

Thomas gives her a saucy look: "Okay, we could go work from my place. That is an option."

Sally: "No, no. The captain does not leave the ship. My crew is working in this heat. So am I."

Ok, it's ridiculous to expect anyone to work in the LA summer heat with no AC. It's even more ridiculous that Thomas wrote out a $100k check without batting an eyelash, can't buy (1) a new central air system, (2) new AC units, or (3) hire someone to fix the current units. 

Although I do have to admire him for roughing it. Can you imagine Fauxdi working in these conditions? I mean, her face alone would melt.

Sally: "Well, you're pretty good at fixing things. Why don't you go take a look at it?"

Thomas knows his limitations: "Good with a pencil, not a wrench. I'm good."

She tells him not to sell himself short then adds, "As far as I can tell, there's nothing you can't do. Thanks to you, Spectra is on its way up. New logo, new designs, new attitude...new tan." I don't know how both of them didn't crack up at that line.

Thomas, deadpan: "Yes, I was outside for a long time." Outside....sure...

It's a toss-up between his tan and Ross Gellar's for Worst.Spray.Tan.Ever.

You decide.

Thomas has now removed his shirt and is sporting a tape measure.

They work (and sweat) away, talking about how they are going to make SF happen.

Thomas reveals that the press isn't returning his calls these days and it's harder than he thought to revive Spectra.

Sally shrugs as she's used to such treatment, then unbuttons her blouse, revealing a sexy black bra.

Thomas: "Yeah, wow. It's -- it's -- you are making it hot in here." Hotter for sure.

Sally laughs: "Yeah, well, so much for staying cool under pressure."

Thomas: "You and I both thrive under pressure, and you know that. That's what I want the world to see about us. That's what the world needs to see. Okay, Spectra Fashions is all about new and dynamic leadership. We are unafraid to blaze an entirely new path for ourselves."

Sally admires his speech and says she's going to use it in her next interview.

Thomas thinks once the new line is out, they're going to have to hire help for Darla for all the phone calls that will be coming through.

Sally: "But first I think we should hire someone in maintenance."

Thomas agrees that it's a great idea, then she echoes him when he remarks that "it's hot." They look at each other and I'm surprised the room didn't burst into flames.

Thomas: "Yeah, I owe you an apology."

Sally eyes him closely. "You didn't break the air conditioner, did you?" Hee!

Thomas: "I didn't. No."

Sally: "You're lucky."

Thomas: "Yeah, no.  I didn't realize how hard it was for you, how hard you had to fight and scratch and struggle and claw for every single, little victory you have here. I mean, you fought twice as hard just to convince people to take you seriously."

Sally: "Well, as a Spectra, that is the hardest part."

Thomas: "Well, I'm sorry. And I'm grateful. You have shown me all the things that I took for granted over at Forrester."

Sally, teasingly: "And to think you turned your back on all of that, your family, the prestige and privilege at Forrester Creations, all to work in this giant sauna with me."

Thomas: "There is no other sauna that I would rather be in than this one."

They sit on the desk and share a kiss. I see a fan in the background so that's something.

Thomas: S"o it's always been like this? You've always had to fight this hard."

Sally: "Yeah, but I've gotten pretty good at it."

Thomas looks at her admiringly: "You're amazing at it."

Sally: "You just have to know when to draw the line." Ehhh...I don't know about that, considering you did rip off FC.

Thomas: "Always have to rely on yourself."

Sally: "Eh, some traits you're born with. Others you learn. Until you realize you don't need them anymore. Like now, I know that I don't have to do this alone. I've got a partner, a brave, generous, smoking-hot champion." He smiles at this. "Who stood up for me more than anyone ever has before. Not only did you bail me out, but you took my hand and you said that we're in this together."

Thomas: "We are."

Sally face falls for a moment and she reminds him his family thinks he made the wrong choice. His family, namely Fauxdi, need to pull the sticks out of their uptight WASP asses.

Thomas: "Well, my family needs to have faith in my choices."

Sally: "Yeah, well, now you can show them what you can do. Under your leadership, Spectra has a new life, a renewed hope, more clout than we have ever had before. Granted, it's not as much clout as you're used to. But hey, I'm not naive, okay? I know cleansing our name will not be easy, but people will take notice, Thomas. Once they see our new collection, they will give us the respect that we deserve. Thanks to you, my dream of having Spectra be a fashion powerhouse can finally come true." I can't wait to see the fashion showdown and I hope the critics like FC, like always, but that they love SF.

Sally and Thomas put the finishing touches on the mannequins in the front window and she glances around the office: "I never imagined this."

Thomas: "Me sweaty and half naked?"

Sally smiles and stifles a laugh: "No, no, I imagine that a lot."

Thomas: "Oh?"

Sally: "Yeah...But never this. You forgiving me the way you did and rescuing me."

Thomas quickly corrects her and I love it: "No, babe, you didn't need rescuing. You are too strong for that." Yes, she is!

Sally: "My chiseled superhero saving Spectra from certain doom. And now we're working together.":

Thomas: "Spectras and Forresters have worked together in the past."

Sally: "Yeah, but from what I did, that should have made that impossible."

Thomas: "No. Trying to ignore my feelings for you, that was impossible."

Sally looks straight into his eyes: "It is 150 degrees in here...and you just gave me goosebumps."

Thomas: "I should probably check that." He kisses her hand, then bends to nuzzle her neck. "Hmm. Yeah. Oh, I got it. Yeah, there's.." She shivers, in spite of the heat, that's the kind of effect he has on her.

Sally: "You just did it again."

Thomas: "Do you want me to stop?"

Sally: "Don't you dare."

Edited June 22, 2017 by CountryGirl

[ByTor]

Is it possible Thomas' skin tone looked so weird because of how light was reflecting off what looked like wood shutters?  When Sally made the comment about him being so tan, I wondered if she ad-libbed that line.

[drivethroo]

19 hours ago, Waldo13 said:

IMO, it's about Rick & Maya owning Lizzy more than loving her.

Well, Lizzy does belong to Rick because he's the biological father who has been caring for her since birth.

19 hours ago, Waldo13 said:

Going get me started on Zende. He doesn't give two shits about Nicole's feelings.  He just doesn't want to raise another man's child.

He's probably been the one character in this situation to halfway take Nicole's feelings into account.  Rick & Maya certainly weren't thinking about Nicole's feelings when they harassed her for another child a few months ago.

Question: Why does RICK need to adopt Lizzy (the screen cap above said Eric Forrester Jr, adoptive father)?  Isn't he Lizzy's biological father and shouldn't he be on Lizzy's birth certificate as such?

[ByTor]

8 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Question: Why does RICK need to adopt Lizzy (the screen cap above said Eric Forrester Jr, adoptive father)?  Isn't he Lizzy's biological father and shouldn't he be on Lizzy's birth certificate as such?

I meant to mention that, I wondered the same thing.

[sugarbaker design]

33 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Question: Why does RICK need to adopt Lizzy

Because Carter is his lawyer.  I'm really hoping that Sheila shows up at FC and tells Carter there's only room for one Carter in Los Angeles.

[MulletorHater]

Color me confused.  I don't mean any harm or offense to the actor who portrays Slouchy or his parents.  But, is there some reason that TIIC couldn't have cast the role of Brooke and Ridge's trophy child with someone who at least looks as if his parents could have been KKL and RM, circa 1987?

And, I'll leave it at that.

[TigerLynx]

As usual, the baby story on a soap makes no sense.  Since Rick is the biological father and listed on the birth certificate as such, there should be no need for him to adopt Lizzy.  Am I supposed to feel bad for Rick and Maya?  Because I don't.  This is exactly why they never should have pressured Nicole, a young teenage girl, to be their surrogate in the first place.  Nicole should have told them no.  However, Nicole did agree to do it, and has no business having second thoughts at this late date.  Dumb story and dumb characters all around.

[sugarbaker design]

27 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

Dumb story and dumb characters all around.

Right, no one to root for.  

[nasir jones]

How about that?  Zzzende has gone to Zende! in just 2 episodes.  Maybe the actor just needed an interesting storyline to come to life.

As usual, Julius just had to take it too far and let his transphobia spew out.  I can't listen to his "I'm her father" crap when he has THREE kids and insists on treating TWO of them like garbage.

I really liked today's ep... it helped that I FFed through the Cheeto-dust parts.

[politichick]

54 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

As usual, the baby story on a soap makes no sense.  Since Rick is the biological father and listed on the birth certificate as such, there should be no need for him to adopt Lizzy.  Am I supposed to feel bad for Rick and Maya?  Because I don't.  This is exactly why they never should have pressured Nicole, a young teenage girl, to be their surrogate in the first place.  Nicole should have told them no.  However, Nicole did agree to do it, and has no business having second thoughts at this late date.  Dumb story and dumb characters all around.

You'd think they could at least try to make sense, these dumb-ass writers. I know what Nicole is doing is wrong and hurtful since she agreed to do this stupid thing in the first place, but I am giving her a pass because she was not old or mature enough to be anyone's surrogate and Maya should never, ever asked her to carry that baby. There ought to be a law that "brain dead imbeciles with fucked up hair" (sorry. can't remember who said that) must be at least 21 or 25 before they can do such a thing. I could have gone along with her donating an egg, though I would not have liked it, but for her to be giving birth before she'd ever made love to anyone or had any real life experiences was a travesty. The fact that all she could think of was running back to Zende after giving birth shows she had no clue about the magnitude of what she was doing or giving up.

I also think that Maya, who if not for Nicole might not ever have experienced motherhood needs, to remember that she was not biologically born a woman and remember how she felt when it seemed that it might not ever be a possibility because of physical issues as Nicole is feeling right now. Julius was a real bastard today, but he was keeping it kind of real, albeit in an extremely hurtful way.

Zende, who seems to have developed bionic hearing and walks into rooms knowing what the topic of conversation is, also showed his ass today when he said, "Not to mention I'm not Lizzie's father!" as one of the reasons why Nicole must sign the papers. He only wants to raise children with her who are fruits of his loin, which is pretty fucked up given he was adopted. It's a good job Kristin and Tony didn't feel that way when they met his poor little orphaned ass.

I did catch a snippet of Thomas and Sally. He was pretty yucky during the Caroline business, but has totally stepped up in this romance. I like that he's not running from the struggle of trying to develop Spectra and being bratty about the difference of working with Spectra,  but is instead embracing it along with his new love like a real grown-up. Yay, Thomas!

It also was nice to see Sally dressed in a nice outfit that was stylish and not a crazy rag she pulled from a Goodwill box in the supermarket parking lot.

Edited June 22, 2017 by politichick

[nkotb]

Damn, Julius. For someone who is all about Nicole having a relationship with her biological child, you sure as hell don't seem to care about the wall you're building in your relationship with your first biological child. Just, damn. The way he was talking to her today...I'm no Maya fan, but OB who plays Julius, is so, so, so good, he actually made me uncomfortable the way he was talking to her watching that scene, & KM's reaction was really good, too. Please redeem him, TPTB, I'd hate to lose the actor, he truly elevates every single scene he's in, even when he's an unrepentant bastard, like today.

As desperate as Rick & Maya are to keep Lizzie, rightfully so, they are her parents, why haven't they suggested hiring a surrogate at their cost, or even adoption, at their cost? They can certainly afford it, but that would bring this story to a speedy conclusion, & we can't have that. I'd like to think Zende would be all about adoption, all things considered.

This really could be a great story, in the hands of better actors, or maybe more likable characters (I'll never forget the way Rick & Maya treated poor Ally, they haven't been redeemed enough yet for me). Many times in this story, I've genuinely felt for Nicole, & just like that, **insert Brooke snap**, today, I was more on Maya's & Rick's side, probably mostly because of Julius.

[Broken Ox]

On 6/21/2017 at 8:27 AM, ByaNose said:

and, Sasha will be the carrier.

I thought they were setting up Coco, the way she said to Slouchy that she just wished she could help or some such.

[politichick]

1 minute ago, Broken Ox said:

I thought they were setting up Coco, the way she said to Slouchy that she just wished she could help or some such.

Urging children to have children is how they landed in this terrible situation. Coco is too young to carry a baby, just as Nicole was and still kind of is!!!!!

Adoption might be a hard sell for Nicole with Lizzy so close by. Oh, the tangled web you weave when you do stupid shit like this. Nicole should have her eggs tested, though, to see if they are viable. Wonder how long this will be dragged out. It would be really much better with stronger actors, but Julius was great today and Maya wasn't acting like a deer in the headlights and using her stupid baby voice, which was a relief.

What Nicole needs is her mother, but oops! She's at fucking work at the damn post office while Julius does nothing, which pisses me off to no end.

[bannana]

This situation calls for an independent mediator.

Rick is Lizzie's father, so either Nicole signs over her parental rights, or she doesn't, in which case they would have to solve the custody matter. 

It's kind of crazy because Nicole is already in Lizzie's life big time (although that might change now!), so it seems what would be best for Lizzie is to keep things that way with Nicole as an auntie, but almost like a second mom. 

I really liked Zende exercising his voice in the matter and especially protecting Maya and calling out Julius on that. 

I agree with everyone who says that Zende should be pro-adoption.

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, nasir jones said:

 I can't listen to his "I'm her father" crap when he has THREE kids

When I 1st read this I thought "three???"  Gee, thanks, show, for making me forget Sasha exists!

[ByaNose]

Who is Slouchy? RJ or Zende? When I saw RJ with Coco he seemed taller then her this time. Maybe, she was wearing flats. I'm just glad he isn't puttting in long arms in his pocket.

[drivethroo]

Zende might also want a connection to someone who shares the same DNA with him and since he can't have that with his bio-parents, perhaps he'd like to have it with his own bio-child.  And there's nothing wrong with him feeling that way, being an adoptee himself or not.

2, if Nicole doesn't sign the papers and ends up sharing custody of Lizzie with Rick, he's got to deal with that drama for the rest of his life.  Zende couldn't even divorce his way out of the situation because Rick is his uncle and Lizzie is his first cousin.

2a. This drama is precisely why Zende was against Nicole being the surrogate for Rick & Maya a second time ---just as he and Nicole were making plans, etc.  here come Rick & Maya pressuring Nicole to loan out her uterus to them again.  When does it stop? When do they get to have THEIR time to each other?

3. This is the area where Julius should be giving Rick & Maya the reads of their lives: pressuring a young, immature teen to have their baby, then a year later pressure her again to have another baby.  Then try to browbeat her into signing the adoption papers.  Julius AND Vivienne should be reading Rick & Maya up and down for what they asked Nicole to do. 

4. If Nicole were to win custody, Rick is still the biological father who has been caring for her since birth so I can't see the judge telling Rick to sit down & go away.  Zende would not be able to run his own household the way he wants because Rick would always be in the mix.  If Zende wanted to move away to design or take pictures in another locale, he wouldn't be able to take Nicole & Lizzie with him because Rick wouldn't allow that.  If he tried to discipline Lizzie she could always hit him with the "You ain't my daddy" or Rick would tell Zende not to discipline his child.

Zende shouldn't have to adopt a child because of Rick & Maya's poor life decisions.  Rick & Maya probably can't adopt through an agency because of Maya's criminal history, which Rick knew about before he married her.

Zende is probably not anti-adoption.  He's just probably anti-adopting THIS particular child because of all the drama it would bring.  He'd probably be open to adopting a child that wasn't connected to Rick & Maya.

[ByTor]

33 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

Who is Slouchy? RJ or Zende? When I saw RJ with Coco he seemed taller then her this time. Maybe, she was wearing flats. I'm just glad he isn't puttting in long arms in his pocket.

RJ.  I've read comments about Coco being taller than RJ, but I doubt it.  If IMDB is correct Coco is just under 5'3".