S12.E07: Something Against You

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The team of doctors work on a high stakes case of a long time patient, adding additional pressure to an already tense environment. Meanwhile, Bailey wants Ben to kick out their new roommate, and Arizona is eager to get back into the dating world with a new wingman.

 

Promo:

[BaseOps]

This episode is airing in Canada right now. I won't spoil anything and I'll wait until later for all my thoughts. But there's a great turn at the 30 min mark, and it's really, really enjoyable so far. Good balance of stories and characters. I love how they're playing different cast members off of each other, even just for a scene each. 

[dabronx]

I feel like the whole meredith/penny storline is  just so badly written that it's distracting me from enjoying any of their scenes and makes me want to flip channels. There are so many better ways they could have explored Meredith's grief or Penny's discomfort and the ripple affects of both rather than dragging us along with the incredily ridiculous idea that Penny is a derek killer. I can't feel any sympathy for meredith because her claims against (and treatment of) penny are so ridiculous and outlandish - whereas the writers could have very easily created that just by Penny's mere presence at Seatle Grace. There was really no need for the nonsensical idea that Meredith or anyone else can think that the fact that a resident wasn't able to overule superiors concerning a patients course of treatment makes them a killer.  They need to wrap this shit up quick cause they are loosing me with this bullshit. Grey's is a soap - but it's a nightime soap and I expect something with a bit better quality of thought than Day of our Lives in primetime.

[pennben]

 But there's a great turn at the 30 min mark, and it's really, really enjoyable so far. Good balance of stories and characters. I love how they're playing different cast members off of each other, even just for a scene each. 

 

Okay, I just finished the episode, I'm really curious what you are talking about as to the great turn (I zipped through it on my dvr, so I'm not sure what the 30 minute mark would be with commercials).

 

I too enjoyed seeing the different combos of characters.  I thought Webber/Arizona at the end were fantastic.  I thought that was a good exchange between Amelia/Maggie in the parking lot, the "it's not her job to make you feel good" was so real and packed a powerful punch. 

 

Anyway, I'm just enjoying this season. 

Edited November 13, 2015 by pennben

[windsprints]

I thought it was pretty good but everything Penny was overdone and parts of the episode were heavy handed.

 

So - Meredith hates Riggs because Owen said so yet can't treat Alex's girlfriend of years decently even at work? She's such a professional, that Meredith. And not at all judgmental.  The run of finding Meredith tolerable is officially done and over. Since Meredith and Owen shared a moment maybe I'll get my wish and they'll be paired. Putting my 2 least favorites together would let me FF right on through easily. The animosity between she and Amelia is already there & ready to be built on into a full blown triangle.

 

Given that Riggs triggered Owen's PTSD I'm guessing that Owen holds him at least partially responsible for losing his unit. 

 

Jo being treated the way she is has to be leading to something. Tonight she was shown as a good doctor and the one who found the solution to her patient's problem yet still was told to move aside for Penny. Jo just can't win at that hospital.

 

Jackson not leaving Ben and Bailey's felt like a redo of George on Burke's couch.

I liked Richard as Arizona's wingman.

Edited November 13, 2015 by windsprints

[LexieLily]

So, assuming they are all still carpooling, how did Meredith get home if Amelia and Maggie left together?

[pennben]

Wasn't Meredith called in the middle of the night for the transplant for the guy they'd been caring for for a long time?  I assume that would mean she drove herself in, and before we get started on the next issue, she woke up the live-in nanny to tell her she was on call now:)

[windsprints]

before we get started on the next issue, she woke up the live-in nanny to tell her she was on call now:)

 

LOL! I actually forget about the kids when they don't keep bringing them up.

[Amelie06]

I enjoyed this episode's masterclass on white privilege. Haha. I actually clapped a little. I like that Maggie wasn't trying to say that Amelia was racist, just needed to acknowledge that people have struggles beyond what she may actually experience first hand. It was kind of annoying that Amelia kept being like "racism? Whaaat??? That's not still a thing!" Where has she been? What has she been doing? What year is it on this show?

 

I liked Meredith hating Martin Henderson on Hunt's behalf. We all need someone in our lives that will hate on our behalf. I've been there. I've hated someone just to support my friend. Even though, my friend was wrong and shouldn't have hated that person. When things calmed down and they were in a better place, we were able to talk about it and I could let her know that she was crazy and shouldn't hate that person. Sometimes you just need to know that someone is with you, even when you may be unreasonable.

[pennben]

LOL! I actually forget about the kids when they don't keep bringing them up.

 

The funny part for me was that they did mention it tonight....when Meredith answered the phone in bed, she said something to the effect of 'you know I have three children, this better be good".  And all I could think while watching it was, oh no, we're going back there on the boards again!:)  The carpool issue never crossed my mind!

[funnygirl]

Jo's speech to Penny at the end pretty much says it all: Jo has been working on that patient (the show) for years, and Penny comes in and just takes the surgery (screen time) and runs with it. 

[BaseOps]

Okay, I just finished the episode, I'm really curious what you are talking about as to the great turn (I zipped through it on my dvr, so I'm not sure what the 30 minute mark would be with commercials).

 

I too enjoyed seeing the different combos of characters.  I thought Webber/Arizona at the end were fantastic.  I thought that was a good exchange between Amelia/Maggie in the parking lot, the "it's not her job to make you feel good" was so real and packed a powerful punch. 

 

Anyway, I'm just enjoying this season. 

 

I guess it wasn't really a 'turn', but Cross finding Owen in the on-call room in full-out rage mode / PTSD really surprised me. We haven't seen Owen like that in a long time, so while I thought maybe this would be some trivial issue with Riggs, I'm actually interested now. I really wonder what the hell happened, and I hope it's not a let-down. I actually quite like Riggs so far. He seems very unassuming, just trying to go about his work professionally. I like seeing outsiders come into the hospital and realize how interconnected and dramatic it all is.

 

I also liked Owen in the surgery scene with that intern - I like when we see him teach. I think for all of his crap, he's always be a good teacher and been invested in making great surgeons. 

 

Overall I really enjoyed the episode. As I said, I liked all the interactions between different characters and I liked the patient stories this week. I really wonder where they're going with Jo. She's really feeling undervalued, and I can imagine Camilla can relate to that lol. I'm not even a Jo fan, but I hope she gets an actual journey / arc this season. Something to justify her still being there after years of being sidelined. 

 

Arizona's story is so odd this year... she moved in with DeLuca, then nothing (literally, have they even shared another scene?) Now she's just sort of floating. Her stuff with Richard was fun, but c'mon. I guess since they got Capshaw to sign on for 3 years they're not really concerned with giving her anything substantial to do right now. The Jackson / April stuff took an interesting turn, I guess. I was half expecting him to say "I want a divorce" at the end, but I'm glad they didn't go for that kind of dramatics. 

 

Also - am I the only one who noticed immediate chemistry with Riggs and Meredith in that elevator scene? 

Edited November 13, 2015 by BaseOps

[BaseOps]

So, assuming they are all still carpooling, how did Meredith get home if Amelia and Maggie left together?

 

Well it wasn't Meredith's car that they were getting into, so perhaps we can assume Meredith remembered that she had children and had to pick them up from somewhere (the 24/7 daycare?) that night. Who knows. 

[StaceyNotStacie]

The episode was pretty good.  I wasn't a fan of Meredith and Penny (and Callie), but everything else was good.  I like the new guy.  He seemed to have good chemistry with both Meredith and Maggie.  I hope that we don't have to wait until later in the season to find out what the deal is between he and Owen.  

The episode was pretty good.  I wasn't a fan of Meredith and Penny (and Callie), but everything else was good.  I like the new guy.  He seemed to have good chemistry with both Meredith and Maggie.  I hope that we don't have to wait until later in the season to find out what the deal is between he and Owen.  

[Free]

Jo's speech to Penny at the end pretty much says it all: Jo has been working on that patient (the show) for years, and Penny comes in and just takes the surgery (screen time) and runs with it. 

 

Everyone is going to end up hating her on the show at some point?

[DearEvette]

Ok, so I am feeling a little vindicated.  I thought I felt racial undertones in the scene with Weber, Steph, Amelia and Jo.  But put it aside as maybe projecting.  But nope, it was intentional as we see here.  I immediately felt uncomfortable for Maggie in that scene with the patient and was so glad she addressed it later.  And the conversation between her and Amelia in the parking lot was great.  'Are you asking me because I am your sister or because I am your sistah?" and 'It's not her job to make your feel good." were some great quotes from the convo.

 

The new guy is pretty.  But goodness who just wanders into a hospital and starts taking over?  The only orientation he needs is to ask where the scrubs are?

 

Owen was a dick to Bailey.  Callie needed to have three seats.

 

And yeah, Jo.  Unload on Penny.  It isn't her fault that Meredith swooped your patient from underneath you.  She was in no position to argue with Meredith about it right then.  But sure, turn it around on her.  I loved Steph's expression as she was watching that unfold. 

 

The non-resolution of Jackson & April is getting old.  Dude, drop the papers on her if that is what you are planning to do.

 

Good episode, everybody got some face time and even smallish parts had some importance.

 

Webber and Arizona was fun.

[hoosiermom]

So, assuming they are all still carpooling, how did Meredith get home if Amelia and Maggie left together?

her broom?

[represent]

 

Ok, so I am feeling a little vindicated.  I thought I felt racial undertones in the scene with Weber, Steph, Amelia and Jo.  But put it aside as maybe projecting.  But nope, it was intentional as we see here.  I immediately felt uncomfortable for Maggie in that scene with the patient and was so glad she addressed it later.  And the conversation between her and Amelia in the parking lot was great.  'Are you asking me because I am your sister or because I am your sistah?" and 'It's not her job to make your feel good." were some great quotes from the convo

I don't know if I feel vindicated but at least I know I can't chalk it up to me just projecting, because I considered that.  But like Stephanie said, "it's always there" as in lurking in the back of my mind. The scenes were handled well.

 

What is up with Jo? I can't tell what they are trying to do with her at all. I mean by the end of this show she seemed so isolated and alone, not that I care all that much about her. But I hope this is going somewhere. 

 

Callie was right about Meredith, but still out of line. She's  just scared she's going to once again lose out on love because Penny will leave if it doesn't work out at GSM.  Callie, she's just someone who continues to brush herself off and get back out there every time. I love her for that. 

 

Nathan has chemistry with Maggie and Meredith, I like him. He's hot, short, but hot and the accent makes him even hotter. All this hotness will be needed when the shit hits the fan and the reveal his "horrible" transgressions. It'll soften the blow.

 

I felt bad for him when Meredith turned him down, he certainly has a great vibe, that scene with Maggie in the OR  was great, so charming.

 

Oh and it was awesome to see the show actually note some things that I just posted, like  Meredith mentioning to Owen that yes, she does care about him because Cristina asked her to look out for him. I thought the writers would forget that.  And, showing Maggie kicking butt in her OR and schooling Nathan.

 

Cause I'm like, all the cardio surgeons have been shown to be kick ass and like Ellis Grey said they are the know- it-alls, so to have Maggie week after week being shown to know only her vagina, wasn't make sense to me. And she's published? Are you kidding me. More of OR Maggie please.

 

This show needs to follow this recipe. I don't know what it was, maybe a combination of pacing, with different characters interacting, along with surgeons in OR's practicing their craft, working in unison with little doses of personal drama spread throughout the episode...whatever it was IT WORKS, I hope they keep it up.

[Racj82]

I enjoyed this episode's masterclass on white privilege. Haha. I actually clapped a little. I like that Maggie wasn't trying to say that Amelia was racist, just needed to acknowledge that people have struggles beyond what she may actually experience first hand. It was kind of annoying that Amelia kept being like "racism? Whaaat??? That's not still a thing!" Where has she been? What has she been doing? What year is it on this show?

I liked Meredith hating Martin Henderson on Hunt's behalf. We all need someone in our lives that will hate on our behalf. I've been there. I've hated someone just to support my friend. Even though, my friend was wrong and shouldn't have hated that person. When things calmed down and they were in a better place, we were able to talk about it and I could let her know that she was crazy and shouldn't hate that person. Sometimes you just need to know that someone is with you, even when you may be unreasonable.

Yeah, I'm not going to hate someone just because someone tells me to or wnats me to.These people are adults. Use your words. If the person deserves the hate, I will give it to them.

[upperco]

This was a surprisingly well written offering (by one Andy Reaser, who also penned the sharpest installment from the last half of Season Eleven) and although I don't typically appreciate scripts with an agenda, even one with which I agree, I thought the composition of all the moving parts showed a mastery that made up for the typical weaknesses inherent in some of the individual moments. 

[Starscream]

Meredith and Riggs are sooo gonna do it....   Owen's surely temporary hatred is what will serve to keep it from seeming too rushed.

 

It seems to me that the only one who's the real turd in the Meredith - Penny showdown is Callie, poor thing.  It's like the crash lawsuit all over again with her getting over zealous about something that doesn't directly involve her.

[North]

Meredith and Riggs are sooo gonna do it.... Owen's surely temporary hatred is what will serve to keep it from seeming too rushed.

It seems to me that the only one who's the real turd in the Meredith - Penny showdown is Callie, poor thing. It's like the crash lawsuit all over again with her getting over zealous about something that doesn't directly involve her.

Callie was out of line, but that doesn't absolve Meredith of her behaviour.

She still wasn't teaching until Penny went off on her.

Also, Meredith agreeing to hate Nathan with Owen is just not right.

Edited November 13, 2015 by North

[hokeypocus]

This racism PSA couldn't have been more ham-handedly doled out.  Cribbed from Buzzfeed: Racism 101, word for word.  It's a crying shame because this issue is long overdue for attention on this show and has a cast who can deliver, but the writing was beyond sorry.

[Happy Harpy]

Jo being treated the way she is has to be leading to something. Tonight she was shown as a good doctor and the one who found the solution to her patient's problem yet still was told to move aside for Penny. Jo just can't win at that hospital.

I felt so sorry for her, because she had obviously an emotional bond with the patient, she cared for him, and she got dumped. The professional disappointment wasn't even a blip on the radar because she was so sad, watching not the surgery but his patient healed, together with his family, and the doctors included in the circle...family that she never had, which makes the treatment of the character all the more cruel in my view.

Jo was finally showed again as a good doctor in this episode, and she was actually warm and friendly with Penny, without prejudice, unlike many others...Stephanie, for example, who was all spite-in-tow with Amelia in the previous episode and now wants to befriend Penny. Oh, it's after Penny got something that was taken away from Jo and caused her sorrow.  Stephanie is all puffed up in mean girl attitude, it was as if she took pleasure in Jo's sadness, and  I can barely bear to watch her onscreen.

[Laurie4H]

I thought the racism thing was heavy handed. Constantly bringing it up is what makes it an issue (I'm not saying it isn't but not as much as the media would like you to think). My friend is black and successful and she was never told that they weren't boarding couch yet when she was first class (as Maggie said) I mean come on. And then she brought up the fabricated White privilege? Ugh. What did Amelia believing Jo have anything to do with Stephanie being black? Not everything is about race.

Besides that I felt the show was ok. I also don't think all this hate for Penny isn't solidified. I mean they act as if she purposely murdered him.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Laurie4H

[Chicken Wing]

I liked that they touched on a race issue and I appreciated all of the points Maggie pointed out, but I'm still not really feeling it in this context. I didn't get any possible underlying racism vibes with Amelia's reaction to the Jo/Stephanie situation, or in Stephanie's reaction to her reaction (though again, I appreciate that possible racism was a vague idea in Steph's mind, not because she really thinks that of Amelia but because it's always a possibility in the back of her mind, because that is very true). But Amelia was totally overreacting to the suggestion. She wasn't being subtly racist, and no one actually thinks she is, and yes, she needs to stop asking for validation of that because begging a black person to confirm that you are not racist is probably more offensive than the thing you're afraid you did. (Also, I totally buy Maggie's anecdote about people assuming she's the nurse when she walks into the room - lawdy, I see that all the time - but I call b.s. on airport personnel assuming she's in coach. Okay, show, let's not get carried away.)

 

I do hope we don't drag out the mystery of what Riggs supposedly did to Owen (although I imagine it's not just some personal slight or imaginary offense, if Owen is back to PTSDing in dark rooms), because the longer Owen keeps flipping out on people for hiring a guy that not a single one of them has any reason to know that he doesn't want here without telling them why he doesn't want him here, my interest in finding the answer myself will greatly diminish. Spit it out, already. Also, I appreciate the sentiment of Meredith being such a friend to Owen (prefacing that it's because Cristina told her to, nice) that she's inclined to take his side no matter what, and wants him to know that she's on his side no matter what, and as such will hate Riggs alongside of him in a show of support and solidarity, but the logical part of my brain can't help but think that's a little junior high-ish. You have no idea who this dude is or what he did, although he certainly didn't do anything to you, but you're going to hate him automatically just because your friend hates him, too. How about we sit Owen down for a nice, friendly, supportive convo and get him to open up, with actual words, about who Riggs is and what happened between them, and work on a plan together on how they're all going to handle it? Not really feeling this, "You hate him? Okay, I hate him too. Pbbbtt!"

 

And oh my gerd, the Meredith and Penny Show needs to end. It's just too stupid to care about or take seriously. When are these people going to get into their heads that the poor girl didn't "kill" anyone? Cut it out. I would have liked to think that Meredith was being human to Penny tonight because she finally realized she was not doing a very good job of "rising above" last week and now she's, I don't know, overcompensating the other way, pretending Penny is someone she doesn't want to punch, whatever. But no, she's staying calm by keeping her on a short leash so she can watch every insignificant move she makes so she knows she can't hurt anyone else. Um, what? Did I miss the version of the Derek episode where Penny attacked him with a chainsaw when no one was looking? I'm really getting tired of Meredith convincing herself that Penny's "mistake" with Derek equates to her being an incompetent who can't be trusted to treat people. You have ALL made mistakes, lady! Stop treating her like a moron! If Meredith can't look at her as any other resident and not the woman who "killed" her husband, she has no business working with her. And while she's not screaming at her for no reason like she was in the last episode, Meredith is still treating her the same way - like an idiot who can kill a poor helpless patient by looking at them funny.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Chicken Wing

[mmk1987]

I feel like they are setting up Merrdith and Riggs and if that happens I'm out.

Also I used to hate Penny cause the Derek thing but now I hate her cause the actress and character suck. Callie sucks too like butt out and get a life.

[millahnna]

My favorite thing about the race themes in the episode was Amelia's facial reactions as she realized the implications of what Pierce (Pearce?) was saying. I once had a situation where my own privilege was shown to me through another person's actions (so a little different than this setup at a bare bones level but similar enough) and my reaction was a similar kind of "dafuq? Is this shit really happening right now?" It was such an authentic reaction. And the scrambling to reassure yourself and everyone that you had no concious part in it. So totally authentic.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Oh, good. More scenes of Owen eating a woman's face.

 

I know I'm one of the few people who hates the glut of pumpkin things in the fall, so pumpkin ravioli - bleeech!

 

Also on my shit list - a cover of Rob Thomas? No thanks!

 

Callie needs to STFU. Even if her heart is in the right place, it is inappropriate for her to harangue Meredith about her girlfriend. Don't get me wrong - I think babysitting a donor body is not something a third year resident needs to do. But I also don't think it's Callie's place to keep nagging Meredith about it because Meredith was correct when she said that Callie wouldn't have bothered complaining about it if it were any other resident. As Weber told Callie, Blake had to be the one to say something.

 

Jo needs to calm the hell down too. Penny didn't swoop in and steal her patient (and after watching MAGIC constantly trying to steal patients/surgeries from each other in the first few seasins, I know surgery stealing when I see it). Penny was going to leave until Meredith, who is the attending and the one making these decisions, TOLD Penny to step in and give Wilson a break. If that's considered stealing a patient, imagine how much Jo would have cried about Cristina stealing all her patients if they had been in the same incoming class.

 

I'm neutral on Riggs. He does nothing for me either way. I don't find him hot or ugly. He looks kind of generic to me. Hunt hates him so that makes me want to like him out of spite. On the flip side, his presence is causing Hunt to yell and freak out, which I am so tired of seeing. But I do appreciate that Meredith remembered her promise to Cristina. When he said he didn't want to talk about it, I was hoping she would tell him that being someone's person doesn't require talking, just copious amounts of alcohol and dancing.

[TVForever]

 

I liked Meredith hating Martin Henderson on Hunt's behalf. We all need someone in our lives that will hate on our behalf. I've been there. I've hated someone just to support my friend. Even though, my friend was wrong and shouldn't have hated that person. When things calmed down and they were in a better place, we were able to talk about it and I could let her know that she was crazy and shouldn't hate that person. Sometimes you just need to know that someone is with you, even when you may be unreasonable.

Yikes. Mistreating another person just because your friend doesn't like them? No way. That can lead to the worst kind of bullying. You can't mistreat another person just to make your friend feel better, especially without knowing why.

[SevenStars]

I thought the racism thing was heavy handed. Constantly bringing it up is what makes it an issue (I'm not saying it isn't but not as much as the media would like you to think). My friend is black and successful and she was never told that they weren't boarding couch yet when she was first class (as Maggie said) I mean come on. And then she brought up the fabricated White privilege? Ugh. What did Amelia believing Jo have anything to do with Stephanie being black? Not everything is about race.

Besides that I felt the show was ok. I also don't think all this hate for Penny isn't solidified. I mean they act as if she purposely murdered him.

Actually the media does everything possible to act like racism is dead and the blacks/poc who point out racism are either overreacting, playing the race card or playing victim. It's actually kind of funny in a sad and depressing way to watch. This is why in the protest in Missouri, the students tried to keep it out of the media because they seen and knew how the media would portray their movement and it would no shape or form be in a positive light.

As for your black friend never telling you about such experience, why would she? What would that have accomplished? Or she might be the lucky few that it hasn't happen to yet.

People seems to believe that black people love talking about racism and racist shits that happens to them. Let me tell you a secret, we don't. We hate talking about it because it's painful and depressing since we know we can't really do anything to change it. That's why most of the racist shits that happens to us we keep it to ourselves. We even keep it from our family members and black friends in order to try to keep it moving.

We tell ourselves that it doesn't matter, that it's just the environment they grow up in, that maybe it's the way we just dress, even though we're dress like everyone else, etc. Basically we do everything to try to bury it in order to keep it moving. It's a survival tactic that we use in order to keep moving and living the life God gave us and not allow racism, no matter how painful it is, to crippled us. Our parents taught us from childhood how to deal with it.

So when a black person point out racism or talk about a racist incident that happened to them, it cause that day the hole they have been filling up had overflow to the point that they could no longer add stuff to it. It's cause that day it hurt them so badly that they would have emotionally crippled themselves if they had kept it inside. No one hates talking about racism more than poc because it's painful and depressing,and it's just too much to deal with on top of having it keep happening. We can't stop it from happening but we can minimize the amount of time we talk about it, so that's what we do.

That's why people and even us get the false sense that racism for the most part is over and done with. It's a lie we tell ourselves in order to keep quiet and it's a lie that allows those who aren't target of it to think that it's over and people are just overreacting to minor incidents.

That's why I noticed from the moment the Amelia/Stephenie storyline began where the writers were going. But because I just didn't really want to talk about it, I didn't point it out. And even when I talked about it, I tried to come up with other reasons that had nothing to do with subtle racism for it.

And white privilege is only a fabrications for white people because it has always been the norm for them. It's not a fabrication for Poc because we unfortunately have always been dealing with the consequences of it existing.

[fellini1]

Was no one else bothered by the way they treated the April-Jackson-story? I'm a Japril fan and even if Kepner's been an annoying b*tch for the last few episodes (except for Dinner-Party-from-Hell) I really want those two characters to find a way back to each other. And this will only work if they start TALKING about their issues! That sex scene just came out of the blue, for me at least.

 

Maybe I also feel cheated because I would have wanted to actually see these two realise they're still in love with each other, and to witness the moment when they just cannot resist the attraction between them any longer (instead of having like half a minute conversation and then end up in bed)

[SevenStars]

Forgot to add in my long ass post lol, kudos to the writers for writing subtle racism in a subtle way and being smart enough not to do it in just one episode or use a person who is clearly racist to do it.

The hardest racism to notice, acknowledge  or fight against is subtle racism because it doesn't usually come from people who are out right racist or only from white people. It is a type of racism that has become such norm and insidious that even poc, including black people have participated in it and only really notice it when it happens to them.

 

Edit cause of all my stupid typos.

Edited November 13, 2015 by SevenStars

[Tooch]

And oh my gerd, the Meredith and Penny Show needs to end. It's just too stupid to care about or take seriously. When are these people going to get into their heads that the poor girl didn't "kill" anyone? Cut it out. I would have liked to think that Meredith was being human to Penny tonight because she finally realized she was not doing a very good job of "rising above" last week and now she's, I don't know, overcompensating the other way, pretending Penny is someone she doesn't want to punch, whatever. But no, she's staying calm by keeping her on a short leash so she can watch every insignificant move she makes so she knows she can't hurt anyone else. Um, what? Did I miss the version of the Derek episode where Penny attacked him with a chainsaw when no one was looking? I'm really getting tired of Meredith convincing herself that Penny's "mistake" with Derek equates to her being an incompetent who can't be trusted to treat people. You have ALL made mistakes, lady! Stop treating her like a moron! If Meredith can't look at her as any other resident and not the woman who "killed" her husband, she has no business working with her. And while she's not screaming at her for no reason like she was in the last episode, Meredith is still treating her the same way - like an idiot who can kill a poor helpless patient by looking at them funny.

 

PREACH. I've said it before and I'll say it again: in season 1 or 2 when Karev killed a guy far more explicitly than Penny did (he called the wrong meds order in and shushed a nurse who tried to correct him), Bailey gave all the interns a tremendous Bailey lecture about how every one of them will kill someone with a mistake at some point in their careers, and the point is to learn from it and grow and be better, not to make jokes about how they are "killers". These dopes are like 10 years into their surgical careers and they're running around claiming Penny is a danger to patients and that she literally killed Derek? It's SO ANNOYING.

 

I almost want to return to the Ghost Denny days of yore, and have Ghost Derek come around and tell them all they're being fucking idiots.

[SimoneS]

Yeah, Meredith is so doing Riggs, but I am not a big fan of his. Oddly enough, I prefer that she and Alex get together. Jo annoys me so I am glad that people are screwing her over.

 

I don't like Jackson and April so I hope that was their last gasp as a couple, but no doubt they will hang on forever.

 

I like Bailey and Ben so much. I wish they would get a stronger story. They are the better couple and deserve more airtime.

 

I loved Richard as Arizona's wing man. I wish Callie had more to do this season that moan over how Meredith treats Penny. I am already tired of Penny and the drama around her.

 

I was glad that they brought up racism in the way in that well done conversation between Maggie and Amelia because as soon as Amelia believed Jo who she barely knows over Stephanie, racism was the first thing that came to my mind. I hope that it is not swept under rug because racism isn't going away because white people ignore it or pretend it does not exist.

 

I thought the racism thing was heavy handed. Constantly bringing it up is what makes it an issue (I'm not saying it isn't but not as much as the media would like you to think). My friend is black and successful and she was never told that they weren't boarding couch yet when she was first class (as Maggie said) I mean come on. And then she brought up the fabricated White privilege? Ugh. What did Amelia believing Jo have anything to do with Stephanie being black? Not everything is about race.

 

I bet that your black friend does not talk to you about the racism that she encounters because you have the perspective that you know how much racism that people of color deal with everyday and that white privilege (which there is tons of literature on) is fabricated. You probably wouldn't believe her anyway when she tells you that the white salesperson followed her around the store.because she is black or the other incidents of racism that she deals with despite of or because of her success. 

Edited November 13, 2015 by SimoneS

[Deanie87]

I really liked the episode as I watched it. As mentioned, most of the characters were used, the stories intersected well for the most part and different characters were together.  But the more I thought about it, the less satisfied I was with it.

 

And oh my gerd, the Meredith and Penny Show needs to end. 

 

 

 

This x 1,000,000.  It is just beyond stupid and she needs to go.  How many loved ones of the alzheimer's patients wanted to punch Meredith in the face when she deliberately messed up Derek's trial, to name just one thing that these guys have done?  I feel like we are supposed to sympathize with someone in this clusterfuck, but for the life of me, I'm not sure who.  Meredith is coming off like an immature hypocrite and Callie is once again bulldozing people when it isn't her place.  I just loathe Penny on the principal that she is taking away screentime and adds nothing to the show that we didn't already know. 

 

I felt so sorry for her, because she had obviously an emotional bond with the patient, she cared for him, and she got dumped. The professional disappointment wasn't even a blip on the radar because she was so sad, watching not the surgery but his patient healed, together with his family, and the doctors included in the circle...family that she never had, which makes the treatment of the character all the more cruel in my view.

Jo was finally showed again as a good doctor in this episode, and she was actually warm and friendly with Penny, without prejudice, unlike many others...Stephanie, for example, who was all spite-in-tow with Amelia in the previous episode and now wants to befriend Penny. Oh, it's after Penny got something that was taken away from Jo and caused her sorrow.  Stephanie is all puffed up in mean girl attitude, it was as if she took pleasure in Jo's sadness, and  I can barely bear to watch her onscreen.

 

I felt bad for her, but she is overdue for a "If you want things to get better stop accepting crap" speech.  Rather than complain to Alex (who is in the lead for mediocre boyfriend of the year, and also for getting no discernable storyline again) and blow up at Penny, stand up for yourself and demand respect.  She has been there long enough to know that these people are assholes and passively accepting what they dole out isn't going to get you anywhere.  When Meredith gave her crap for calling in the night, I wanted her to say, right back at ya, at least this is medical and not an excuse to climb in bed with my boyfriend and whine about your personal problems.  When the family and the doctors were celebrating at the end, I wanted her to march right in there and celebrate with them and casually take credit for it.  When Meredith kicked her off the case, I wanted her to address it with Mer afterward, calmly and professionally, because clearly the only reason Meredith did it is for personal reasons and because Penny confronted her about it.  But rather than do any of these things, she just passively takes it, looks woebegone and takes it out on the wrong people.  So as much as I feel bad for her, I also get frustrated because she does nothing to help herself.  I'm sure that its difficult to confront your superiors, who are also your boyfriend's friends, but every other single person does it so I don't get why they are having Jo act differently (not to mention, it seems completely out of character for the woman they orignally introduced, but that ship sailed a long time ago).  I agree, though, that Stephanie's smug smile bugged, and I am ready for her to get served a healthy slice of humble pie.

 

Ok, so I am feeling a little vindicated.  I thought I felt racial undertones in the scene with Weber, Steph, Amelia and Jo.  But put it aside as maybe projecting.

I'm white and that is where I thought that they were going as well, but then talked myself out of it because I'm not used to Grey's being that subtle and I didn't think that they would make the point using Amelia.

[Chicken Wing]

I felt bad for her, but she is overdue for a "If you want things to get better stop accepting crap" speech.  Rather than complain to Alex (who is in the lead for mediocre boyfriend of the year, and also for getting no discernable storyline again) and blow up at Penny, stand up for yourself and demand respect.

 

This. They are going out of their way now to crap all over Jo and make her unwanted and unappreciated, but I can't feel sorry for her anymore because she doesn't do anything about it. Whining to your boyfriend, spiting your alleged best friend and unfairly blaming the new kid on the block who was just doing what she was told to do does not count. You don't think you're being respected, that people aren't taking you seriously, that your hard work and accomplishments aren't being recognized? Then step the fuck up and say so, to people who matter in the equation. Demand respect. Force people to take you seriously. Insist on being recognized when recognition is due. ASSERT YOURSELF.

[DearEvette]

(Also, I totally buy Maggie's anecdote about people assuming she's the nurse when she walks into the room - lawdy, I see that all the time - but I call b.s. on airport personnel assuming she's in coach. Okay, show, let's not get carried away.)

 

 

 

Oh, see, I  totally feel this is within the realm of possibility.  It is a textbook microagression.  It is under the same umbrella as a POC going to Macy's and buying an expensive purse by handing the salesperson a credit card with your name printed on it only to be asked to show ID or to have the sales person make a mysterious phone call before ringing up your purchase.  Or when you call to find out when a jewelry store will close and a clerk alerts the police and closes the store early because you don't 'sound like a legitimate customer.'

These sorts of things don't have to be the work of a an entire entity like an airline or an entire store, but rather the just that one single person who unfortunately is your initial point of contact and who are laboring under their own assumptions and who unfortunately create that negative experience for you.

 

I actually thought Maggie's frustration and the conversation from her end came well within context because POC usually just endure these sorts of microaggrssions in silence.  Stephanie's world weary expression when Amelia tried to talk about it further emphasized this because, yeah been there, done that.  Maggie finally had to express.  I thought it was really well done because she first couched it in terms that Meredith and Amelia would most easily relate to -- sexism.  But then she needed to acknowledge out loud fact that there might also have been some racism there as well.  And the fact that Amelia immediately recognized that there might have been some subtext in her earlier interactions with Steph given that Maggie assured her that both Bailey & Edwards also were most likely recipients of this behavior led quite naturally to that conversation between her and Steph. 

[Chicken Wing]

Oh, see, I  totally feel this is within the realm of possibility.  It is a textbook microagression.  It is under the same umbrella as a POC going to Macy's and buying an expensive purse by handing the salesperson a credit card with your name printed on it only to be asked to show ID or to have the sales person make a mysterious phone call before ringing up your purchase.  Or when you call to find out when a jewelry store will close and a clerk alerts the police and closes the store early because you don't 'sound like a legitimate customer.'

These sorts of things don't have to be the work of a an entire entity like an airline or an entire store, but rather the just that one single person who unfortunately is your initial point of contact and who are laboring under their own assumptions and who unfortunately create that negative experience for you.

 

I completely believe those examples. The one sales clerk in the fancy store asking you what you want, in that "Is there a reason you're in here?" way? Happens to me more than I care to think about. But the "you must be seated in coach" thing seemed a little over the top. Maybe it's the idea that an airport employee would actually blurt out their assumption that the black woman couldn't actually have a first-class ticket. People absolutely make assumptions - we all do, about all kinds of things, and we can't help it - and while I totally believe that someone would unconsciously think to themselves, if only in some dark corner at the back of their mind, "Hmm, she has a first-class ticket? Okay," I can't really see someone actually saying basically that to her face. Maybe because I can't imagine the gate person even paying that much attention. I so rarely see them bothering to even look people in the face when they take their boarding pass, heh.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Chicken Wing

[Primetimer]

Meredith decides to hit Penny with the soft bigotry of no responsibilities, Maggie has to explain white privilege to some basics, and Owen's PTSD is back, but mostly GO SEE STAR WARS PLEASE.

Read the story

[Chas411]

I wonder if Jo is leading to quitting medicine by the end of the year. The writers seem hell bent on having viewers hate her and it's working. Very character seems o get a strong moment except for her... It's disappointing.

[LaughingOne]

I was shocked by Amelia's lack of awareness the racism is still a real issue - are you freaking kidding me??? Maybe I'm just projecting, but you'd figure an educated woman would get that micro aggression is very real and very prevalent.  I think it's such an important issue that I wish the Maggie-Amelia scene at the end would've been written better.  The language did come across too much like a PSA and not a natural conversation that these two would have.  And that will make people dismiss it, which is a shame.

 

I freakin' loved Meredith and Owen.  Mer deciding to hate Riggs because Cristina asked her to keep Owen from going dark and twisty was such an old school Meredith move that I could hardly stand it.  I practically cheered.

 

The Penny story is so meh.  It's too bad she's not played in a more sympathetic way because I really do feel like her making a medical mistake is an issue all the doctors have faced.  And it is interesting to see the issue from both the family's and the doctor's POV as the same time, but she feels so one-dimensional to me that I just don't care.

 

I actually like the idea that Japril would fall back into bed with each other because it very much harkens back to their beginning.  They have strong chemistry so that direction works for me.  But I'm sooooo annoyed we didn't get to see the scene where that happened.  I get they were going for the shocking ending, but it would've been just as shocking to see them talking, the chemistry taking over and then ending the episode with them starting to rip each other's clothes off.

Edited November 13, 2015 by LaughingOne

[esco1822]

The single greatest moment Penny has had on this show to date was telling Callie to shut up.  I had been saying it in my mind pretty much all episode so I was glad she finally stood up for herself making Callie finally realize what Meredith and Richard were basically saying.  Penny wasn't the one complaining about her treatment, right or wrong--that was Callie.  I was glad Penny finally stood up for herself with both Callie and Meredith and I think that alone will make her work under Meredith much more productive.  Callie, I have only this to say to you:

 

 

As for Jo, i'm in total agreement with Chicken Wing.  I'm not crying for Jo because she's doing enough of it for herself.  Grow up!

 

Richard as Arizona's wingman was pretty much the best.  I hope they explore that relationship a little, it was fun.  Plus, give Arizona something to do already.  

[Deanie87]

I wonder if Jo is leading to quitting medicine by the end of the year. The writers seem hell bent on having viewers hate her and it's working. Very character seems o get a strong moment except for her... It's disappointing.

I don't think so, she showed last night that she is a good doctor.  Her problem isn't that she isn't good, its that she is letting her insecurities about everything consume her and not handling well.

 

After the brief scene in the elevator between Meredith and Riggs, I am not as concerned with them putting Alex and Meredith together, thank god, so even if Jo and Alex break up, I don't think Camilla is going anywhere.  I think that the writers are doing whatever they are doing with Jo for a reason, though I can't figure out exactly what that might be, and things will start to come to a head next week. I don't think that they want us to hate her, but they aren't doing her any favors at this point.  But she isn't the first character that they have done with, so hopefully they will build her back up soon.

[Chicken Wing]

I was shocked by Amelia's lack of awareness the racism is still a real issue - are you freaking kidding me??? Maybe I'm just projecting, but you'd figure an educated woman would get that micro aggression is very real and very prevalent.

 

Yes, this. What rock does she live under? She can't be that naive. It may not be something that she, as a non-POC, really has to think about or be aware of in her daily life, and she may well never personally see any behaviors that one might consider an act of microaggression, but surely she, an intelligent woman living on earth, must be aware that racism, overt and subtle, still exists. Yes, Amelia, it is still a thing.

[North]

My thoughts on the ep in general:

Meredith is the queen mean girl-she was still not teaching Penny for her own personal reasons and had to be yelled at in order to start- then she agrees to hate Nathan on Owen's word, meh.

Callie had her heart in the right place, but it wasn't her place to say anything-she needs to let Penny deal wiling her own shit.

Penny just needs to go-you do not fall asleep when having sex with Callie Torres-also don't wait for your girlfriend to stand up for you before you do it yourself-that's just weak.

Jo just can't win-I'm not sure what they're doing with her but I am sure I don't care.

Amelia is a jerk pure and simple-I get she is mad about Penny but this isn't the first time she's been dismissive of Callie's specialty and I'm done with that.

Arizona is again relegated to doing nothing basically. I didn't give two shits about her and Webber at the bar-she was again the funny in the episode-they have given her literally nothing interesting to do this season.

[Nobodysfan]

Nathan and Meredith in an elevator. So Greys style.

 

I like the vibe of Pride and Prejudice - we have modern Darcy and Elisabeth. 

 

Nathan has great work chemistry with Maggie, professional,but with Meredith it is more of a budding attraction. Meredith was stone cold icy queen in that elevator, poor guy. She did not give him a chance.

Mer hating him because Owen hates him, well, it is childish beyond anything,but as somebody already mentioned it is only to make time for their romance to bloom.

Meredith was really pretty in the elevator scene,and Nathan, a very handsome man indeed.

 

Hey Baseops,was it you who predicted this is how things will go? That they will hate each other first,then friendship and love will follow. I think it was you.

 

What an extremely  difficult position for the actor Martin Henderson - he is barely tweeting or posting on instagram anything related to Greys - he must know some fans would eat him alive, I saw some on twitter or elsewhere calling Nathan Mcdreamy wannabe, I disagree, he is not Derek, neither wants to be him.

 

On a sidenote,I think Shonda caught both actors off-guard, Pompeo herself said Henderson would be coming halfway through the season which 1206 is not,it was at ABC media event back in August,also Henderson said he was called in to shoot much much earlier than expected in the podcast with Beers. Shonda tricked them both not only viewers.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Nobodysfan

[windsprints]

Her problem isn't that she isn't good, its that she is letting her insecurities about everything consume her and not handling well.

 

Agreed. She needs to stop with personal pity parties and speak to someone who can help her address the problem if she's having trouble doing it herself.  The only person she's said anything to is Alex and by now Jo should have figured out that he brushes by it and doesn't offer her any real advice or support. If he at least spoke up about how Meredith & co. treat Jo personally then she'd probably have a bit more confidence to address the workplace treatment. Alex should stay out of it at work (like Callie should have) but the personal treatment of Jo is a fair game. Richard told Callie that Penny should go to him if she has any problems with the way she is being treated. I have no idea what Richard's job is in relation to the residents but if he is there to advise/help with personnel issues then Jo should go to him. To me she seems completely frustrated. I can see her having a bit more trouble standing up to them because of their relationship with Alex but something has to give. I'm guessing she's going to blow at some point. The storyline is already tired and it can't keep going with no resolution.

After the brief scene in the elevator between Meredith and Riggs, I am not as concerned with them putting Alex and Meredith together

 

Agreed. It will be Meredith and Riggs together. Meredith agreeing to hate him cemented that idea for me.

 

[hks]

I enjoyed some parts of this episode, but ITA with the many here who are already tired of the Penny-Meredith storyline. I am HOPING that by finally teaching her properly, and with Stephanie asking her for drinks, the majority of the BS is over, and we can move on...

 

To the Hunt/Riggs mystery? Maybe? I am curious, but I would like the mystery to be revealed at next week's winter finale. That's all the patience I have for the story...

 

I am not sure where I want the April/Jackson storyline to go - but where it has gone makes total sense. It is highly likely that a separating couple will end up in bed together as they are trying to navigate the tricky space they are in. And by the looks on their faces, they seem to recognize the mistake they made. I hope.

 

Finally, I also applaud the racism/white privilege dialogue. Yes, that definitely felt like "Maggie was Shonda", but regardless, it was both well acted, and the message was clearly presented.  When I saw Maggie and Riggs with that patient, I IMMEDIATELY felt what Maggie explained later - the idea that the patient was looking to Riggs not just because he's male, but because he's white.  AND I buy Amelia's disbelief that it happens, because that is what it means to have white privilege. Plus, they are in a very diverse hospital, with people of color in the powerful positions. So to her, that means racism isn't an issue at that hospital. So I love the way both Stephanie and Maggie speak with her about it. Well done. 

[Greysaddict]

does anyone have some advil?  I have a headache from the giant anvil dropped on my head with that elevator scene.  Also, did you know Meredith had 3 kids?   Maybe if she mentions them enough times they will magically appear? /sarcasm

 

I thought the writing in the episode was extremely clunky, but I thought the racism/white privileged scenes were well acted.  I especially liked  Maggie's line of "it's not her job to make you feel better".  

 

Hate everything Meredith/Penny/Callie which is so sad because Meredith and Callie were my two favorites and I can barely stand to watch them anymore.  

 

I don't understand what they are doing to Jo but I hope its leading to something and not just Shonda tossing her to the wayside.  

Edited November 13, 2015 by Greysaddict