Love in the Time of Walkers: Relationships in The Walking Dead

[Timetoread]

Let me clarify something. I don't think that Morgan is weak.  Nor do I think a person is weak for not killing, nor that a person who kills is strong.  I think Morgan is insane and a liability.  That whole backstory just proved it to me.  Morgan was homicidally insane and then he met a psychiatrist/monk who spent far too much time with him and died.  And then he adopted that man's philosophy (a philosophy that the man had 1. after committing a cold blooded revenge murder and 2. living alone since then).  But I call BS on the whole philosphy as Morgan uses it.  Morgan doesn't seem to think or care at all about anybody else, his only thoughts are about his own agenda.  He's latched onto Carol because he sees himself in her and he wants to try out his new Jedi mindtricks (essentially copying what the dude did for him) on her.  There is not a righteous bone in his body.  He sees ONLY himself in everything he does.  When there is a war council, Morgan sits sullenly thinking about how this doesn't jibe with his philosophy in life.  Rick stands in front thinking of all the good people he's seen killed by bad people, and all of the people around him - everybody left in this world that he loves - who can fall victim to bad people if he doesn't eradicate the threat.  Morgan doesn't set out to save people in general, he seeks to save the iredeemable to prove something to himself. And...I will put this in caps because I don't have the red flames font enhancer...HE DOES THIS EVEN AS OTHERS ARE IN DANGER, REMAINING COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS AND INDIFFERENT TO THEIR NEED FOR HELP.  Rick is supposedly his friend, but when the Wolves came, he ran to speechify to Wolves instead of running, in Rick's absence, to Rick's minor children who could use a strong man fighting on their behalf.

 

Morgan is self absorbed and a major liability because the strength that he has, he uses AGAINST the people that we are rooting for.  He can go.

[mightysparrow]

I think this is one of the most insightful comments about Morgan I have seen in awhile.  It is really easy to like bad-asses who kill without a blink.  I think it is much more difficult to take the time to parse what a character like Morgan feels and thinks.  Unlike CDB who for the most part had a strong support system in each other, Morgan weathered a lot of ZA alone.  He had to be incredibly resourceful and smart to survive how he has to this point.  And yet that aspect of him is dismissed and his likeability factor is centered on whether or not he's willing to kill indiscriminately. 

 

I don't think Morgan is somehow the cause for Carol's issues.  I think Carol is.  Morgan isn't important enough or influential enough to Carol as a person to cause her rethink anything.  The fact of the matter is, if  anyone is human enough to still have a conscience, there is going to come a point where they are going to hit a wall and need to examine some of the things they've done.  I think it was Sam's death that caused Carol to think about what she's become.  I also think Morgan is a person who has already hit that wall and he goes overboard not to kill because he knows how easy it is to tip over and become a monster. So the alcoholic on the wagon is a great analogy.

 

I would actually like to see Carol and Morgan develop a relationship (not necessarily romantic) but some sort of understanding that comes out of this.  I think we are seeing the seeds of it, but I would like for it to grow.  Both Lennie and Melissa are great actors.  It is unfortunate that Lennie is being saddled with a character arc that feels so reminiscent of Tyrese's so soon after Tyrese because I don't think it is letting him shine.

 

And finally, in thinking about characters who don't get to interact enough, i would love it if in whatever mechanism, we get to see Sasha and Rosita interact.  I would love something meaty and interesting for these two.  They also have a lot of potential and we don't get to see it. 

 

Can I like this post a bazillion times? Morgan has been called weak, cowardly but this right here says to me he's far from weak and cowardly. 

 

I think Morgan is one of the bravest men on the show.  He's chosen life in a time of death.  He could take the path so many other characters have and say 'my wife is dead, my kid is dead, so I'm going to kill EVERYBODY!'.  But he hasn't.  He's honouring his mentor but he's also honouring the people he loved.

 

I used to get upset when people called Tyreese weak but now I just have to laugh.  Tyreese chose not to give into his rage and kill the person who had caused him so much pain (even though she was hoping that Tyreese would give her the easy way out and blow her brains out) and chose forgiveness.  He certainly made a mistake not killing the man who threatened Judith but I think it's a bit much to blame Gareth's obsession with Rick on Tyresse.  Gareth might have got Judith's name from the guy in the cabin but the desire to kill Rick and everyone else came from Gareth.  Maybe killing his mother and leaving her to turn had a bit to do with it too.

 

Back on topic:  I'm not happy with the trend of viewing psycho killers as heroes.  I hate the idea that my favourite character is fucking one of those psycho killers.  I don't see Michonne and Rick as a grand love affair.  I see it as a thrown together story to distract the audience from all the plot threads Gimple left dangling.  Gimple and Danai might say that Richonne was planned back in season 3 NOW, but I don't buy it.  I think Jessie was supposed to last longer and when the fan reaction was so negative, Gimple panicked.  He's done it before.

 

Great love stories don't usually start with the people involved saying they want to turn off their brains before they fuck.  That's escapism, that's not Etta James singing 'At Last'.  I really hope that Michonne takes a good look at the man she's fucking and realize that she deserves better.  And then goes out and gets it!

[catcory]

I prefer to think that Scott Gimple and Danai are telling the truth when they say that the romance of Rick and Michonne had been

planned for several seasons. Since the first time I saw Michonne at the end of Season 2, I felt that she was one amazing woman and the first time I saw her and Rick together on little screen I saw that intense chemistry between the two of them.

Am I a romantic HECK YES and this works for me.

[mandolin]

 I think Jessie was supposed to last longer and when the fan reaction was so negative, Gimple panicked.  He's done it before.

As far as this goes, the tv storyline followed the comic one pretty darn closely, so (IMO) I don't think fan reaction had anything to do with it. 

[Pete Martell]

As far as this goes, the tv storyline followed the comic one pretty darn closely, so (IMO) I don't think fan reaction had anything to do with it. 

 

I think the arc was probably as planned (although there was a season break - if the reaction to her had been more positive I wonder if she would have lived a bit longer), but I tend to wonder if the grieving for her was entirely offcamera because of negative fan reaction to the relationship.

[NoWillToResist]

Way harsh on Morgan. I don't think that he is insane. I do think that he is mentally unstable though. It is the only explanation for his swings from one extreme to the other and getting into a physical fight with Carol. I think that he will eventually reach a middle ground where he accepts that there are circumstances in which you have kill bad people, much as Gabriel has.

 

 

I also think Morgan is a person who has already hit that wall and he goes overboard not to kill because he knows how easy it is to tip over and become a monster. So the alcoholic on the wagon is a great analogy.

I would actually like to see Carol and Morgan develop a relationship (not necessarily romantic) but some sort of understanding that comes out of this.  I think we are seeing the seeds of it, but I would like for it to grow.

 

As far as I can figure, Morgan's story is somewhat parallel to Carol's. Carol went from meek mouse to stone-cold killer; she "over-corrected" her behaviour, IMO. I believe Morgan has done the same. I don't think either extreme (utter pacifism or premeditated murder) is ideal. The ZA is a world of grey areas. Both Morgan and Carol need to find their middle grounds in order to (A) survive and (B) not get others killed. I do agree with those who feel that the most annoying part of Morgan's personality is his need to bring others to his own mindset.

 

 

I don't think Morgan is somehow the cause for Carol's issues.  I think Carol is.  Morgan isn't important enough or influential enough to Carol as a person to cause her rethink anything.  The fact of the matter is, if  anyone is human enough to still have a conscience, there is going to come a point where they are going to hit a wall and need to examine some of the things they've done.  I think it was Sam's death that caused Carol to think about what she's become.

 

If I'm to believe that Sam's death has been the cause of Carol's new attitude, IMO they screwed the pooch on that one; we didn't even get to see her reaction to the news of his death. But we've had her interact with Morgan, "forgive" him for the body slam, defend him and his attitude to Rosita...I don't think that's coincidence. His stance seems to be making her reevaluate how she behaves and, unfortunately for those around her, she's doing another 180, and it's becoming dangerous to those around her (just like Morgan).

Edited March 18, 2016 by NoWillToResist

[SimoneS]

As far as this goes, the tv storyline followed the comic one pretty darn closely, so (IMO) I don't think fan reaction had anything to do with it. 

 

Exactly. The whole story of Jessie and her kids was transposed from the comics with only a few tweaks and it ended just like it did in the comic so I don't see any evidence to support that it was ended abruptly because of fan reaction. Also, every season TWD is planned out, written, and filmed so far in advance that stories cannot be changed at the whim, even to appease a small contingent of online fans who are unhappy with a particular story. If they do end a story prematurely, where are they finding the script, budget, and time to create a whole new episode to take its place? Anyone familiar with the reputation of the AMC execs knows that isn't going to happen.

 

Quite frankly, if Gimple did listen to conflicting views of online fans TWD would be cancelled because every character would be killed off and every story ended prematurely in a hot minute to satisfy the various groups of fans who dislike every new single character within two seconds of their appearance and demand that the writers kill the very elements that make stories compelling. 

 

Look at the amazing elements as this Saviors story has unfolded; Michonne and Rick's romance, Carl's disfigurement, discovering the Hilltop, the decision to proactively attack the Saviors, Carol's inner conflict and romance with Tobin, Glenn and Maggie's pregnancy, Maggie's determination to kill the remaining Saviors, Abraham's introspection about his life, Tara hiding her past from Denise, Morgan's conflict over killing, and Gabriel deciding that he can kill. The characters are at such different places emotionally that when Negan shows up, they are going to have to dig deeper than they ever have to survive. This is such great drama and I am loving every minute of it, flaws and all. 

Edited March 21, 2016 by SimoneS

[kj4ever]

There was a moment right before Carol shot the wolf that you knew she saw him sacrifice himself to save Denise.  You could tell she saw it by the look on her face for just a split second (Melissa is a genius).  They then had a couple of months without a big threat while they rebuilt everything, giving all of them time to think about things they had done, something that wasn't really possible before.  I wonder if it was enough for her to subconsciously think that Morgan might have been right.

 

It is exactly 50 days in the timeline from when Carol is exiled from the Prison to when the Wolves attack Alexandria.  Wow.  It is 60 days from the Wolf attack to where she was when she was smooching Tobin.  That kind of blows my mind.  It is so easy to think that this stuff is taking years, but when half a season only covers a day it's pretty amazing.

 

http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/The_Walking_Dead_TV_Show_Timeline

[jackjill89]

The whole Rick didn't get to grieve Jessie blows my mind...there was no relationship there to grieve for more than 10 minutes. There was attraction. There was a kiss. They barely had time to get to know each other. He killed her husband. That does complicate things a bit. She was nothing more that a transition for him, opening his eyes that it might be possible to find love again. 

[DearEvette]

I gather from reading these forums that Abraham/Sasha as a pair is not very popular.

 

I like Sasha and hope we get some more face time with her.  Or rather I hope she gets face-time with other characters.  I can imagine we would get some interaction between her and Rosita now, even though I wish it would not be Abraham-centric interaction.

 

I have no strong opinion pro or con about Abraham.  I am generally agreeable about him because he has proven to be useful as a fighter for the team, but beyond that I don't think he's terrible or anything. 

 

With that in mind, I actually don't have any real issue with these two as a couple. 

 

I always felt it was strongly implied that Rosita and Abraham gravitated to each other out of sexual convenience in the first place because they were traveling together.  This seems to be later confirmed by Abraham's statement to her.  I honestly never got the impression they were anything more than fuck-buddies really until her reaction to him breaking up signaled that it seemed like more to her.  I gather that with the time he has spent with Sasha and seeing other couples (Rich/Michonne, Gelnn/Maggie) that he's casting about for something a bit more.  While I don't think he handled with break-up with Rosita very gracefully (dingleberies? really Abe?) I can't really blame him for not wanting to be with one person and wanting to be with someone else.

[Pete Martell]

I just feel like none of it is about Sasha. If we actually saw them together as a couple then I would give them a chance, but I don't really like the narrative of Rosita and Sasha being there for him to choose between. We've gotten more from Rosita in the aftermath than I expected, to be honest, but now I worry Sasha will take her place as Abraham's loyal girlfriend.

[Eyes High]

I gather from reading these forums that Abraham/Sasha as a pair is not very popular.

 

I like Sasha and hope we get some more face time with her.  Or rather I hope she gets face-time with other characters.  I can imagine we would get some interaction between her and Rosita now, even though I wish it would not be Abraham-centric interaction.

 

I have no strong opinion pro or con about Abraham.  I am generally agreeable about him because he has proven to be useful as a fighter for the team, but beyond that I don't think he's terrible or anything. 

 

With that in mind, I actually don't have any real issue with these two as a couple. 

 

I always felt it was strongly implied that Rosita and Abraham gravitated to each other out of sexual convenience in the first place because they were traveling together.  This seems to be later confirmed by Abraham's statement to her.  I honestly never got the impression they were anything more than fuck-buddies really until her reaction to him breaking up signaled that it seemed like more to her.  I gather that with the time he has spent with Sasha and seeing other couples (Rich/Michonne, Gelnn/Maggie) that he's casting about for something a bit more.  While I don't think he handled with break-up with Rosita very gracefully (dingleberies? really Abe?) I can't really blame him for not wanting to be with one person and wanting to be with someone else.

 

I don't think Abraham is automatically a bastard for falling in love with someone else and breaking up with Rosita over it. It's unfortunate, but it happens. It was flirting with Sasha while still in a relationship and the brutal way he broke up with Rosita that was the problem. In terms of Abraham and Rosita being fuckbuddies and nothing more, I'm sure that's what Abraham tells himself, but he sure seemed happy to let Rosita believe otherwise.

 

As for Abe/Sasha's lack of popularity, I think the prevailing sentiment is that just like Rosita, Sasha could do better, even within the cloistered world of Alexandria. At least Rosita upgraded.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Eyes High

[Timetoread]

Not feeling Abe and Sasha.  I like them both but not feeling anything from them.

[SimoneS]

I just feel like none of it is about Sasha. If we actually saw them together as a couple then I would give them a chance, but I don't really like the narrative of Rosita and Sasha being there for him to choose between. We've gotten more from Rosita in the aftermath than I expected, to be honest, but now I worry Sasha will take her place as Abraham's loyal girlfriend.

 

I do think that this triangle is mostly from Abraham's perspective, but I am okay with that because I feel that Sasha's brief romance with Bob was mostly from her perspective. We have also seen Sasha struggle with the aftermath of Bob and Tyreese's death. I hope that now she has chosen Abraham that we get to see them interact as a couple.

[jsbt]

I think they laid off Sasha for a good stretch here because (IMO) they spent a lot of time in Seasons 4 and 5 developing her. We saw her this year but a lot of that was through the prism of Abraham, who frankly desperately needed the development (and still needs more) in order to evolve beyond a character from Street Fighter II.

[DearEvette]

In terms of Abraham and Rosita being fuckbuddies and nothing more, I'm sure that's what Abraham tells himself, but he sure seemed happy to let Rosita believe otherwise.

 

As for Abe/Sasha's lack of popularity, I think the prevailing sentiment is that just like Rosita, Sasha could do better, even within the cloistered world of Alexandria. At least Rosita upgraded.

 

I think that is part of the issue though, I don't recall ever really getting insight into that relationship until Abraham started making eyes at Sasha.  Or at least after I stopped being a little perturbed that they had sex while Eugene watched. You knew they were together but not, say, like Maggie & Glen together. But suddenly once he started liking Sasha then it seems like we saw more of what was with him & Rosita.  Bad storytelling in some ways. 

 

I do think this comment is interesting in light of Rosita and Spenser's interaction where he is explicitly trying to understand  their relationship but she seems resistant to making it more.  It could just be that she is gun shy after Abraham.  But that little snippet could also be read that to infer that there was that lack of definition in her relationship with Abraham too.

[slade3]

I'm one of the people who thinks Sasha can do better, even though there isn't a huge group to choose from. Gabriel? Daryl? It's not that I don't like Abraham - it's just that his brand of alpha is a turn off to me. Sasha has grown on me because of her pain and sadness, and I'm not sure Abraham is the person to bring her happiness.

[Dobian]

The only long-term and strongly-written relationship on this show has been Glenn and Maggie.  Rick and Lori was mostly bad soap opera.  All the others have been transitory, sparsely developed, and generally uninteresting.  I'm not even looking forward much to Rick and Michonne, because Rick is basically a pretty boring character when he isn't doing his badass routine.  I don't expect to see sparks flying off the screen with this one.  A lot of it has to do with the fact that most of the characters on this show are rather bland and uninteresting.  Only a handful of them, such as Carol and Michonne, hold my interest.  A lot of that has to do with the writing, which is very one-note.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Dobian

[SimoneS]

Rick and Michonne have clean slates with each other. They accept each other exactly as they are. They have helped each other and supported each other.  I think that's why they are so happy with each other. Rick and Lori would have failed no matter what because of Shane.

 

In many ways, I think that Michonne has the easier path with Rick. They don't have baggage or the mundaness of everyday normal life where as the woman, you end up doing all the housework and you have nag him to take out the trash kind of thing. Each day is about survival and most of Rick and Michonne's disagreements are about how to survive. She has at times put him on the spot when she is realizes that he is spiraling or she wants to know what is going on in his head which is a little like what Lori would do. Also, in terms of their status in the group, Rick is the leader, but they are more or less equals because the others rely on her when they are unsure about Rick or he is unsure about himself. This alters the balance between them and this something that Lori did not have. I do think that Lori would have become as efficient as other group members though. 

Edited March 21, 2016 by SimoneS

[Eyes High]

I think that is part of the issue though, I don't recall ever really getting insight into that relationship until Abraham started making eyes at Sasha.  Or at least after I stopped being a little perturbed that they had sex while Eugene watched. 

It seemed that they knew it was happening. Not only did they not even try to put a stop to it as far as we know, but we now know that they shared living space with Eugene! (At least while Rosita and Abraham were together.) That's the part that blows my mind. It makes sense if Eugene and Rosita had an exhibitionist streak, but it makes their relationship even stranger if they willingly allowed Eugene to participate in their sex life that way.

 

I'm one of the people who thinks Sasha can do better, even though there isn't a huge group to choose from. Gabriel? Daryl?

The creators' line is that Daryl is straight, but I'll believe it when I see it, frankly. Gabriel could be gay, straight, asexual, who knows? I don't think there's anything in the show to suggest what Gabriel's orientation is, one way or another.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Eyes High

[Iguessnot]

It seemed that they knew it was happening. Not only did they not even try to put a stop to it as far as we know, but we now know that they shared living space with Eugene! (At least while Rosita and Abraham were together.) That's the part that blows my mind. It makes sense if Eugene and Rosita had an exhibitionist streak, but it makes their relationship even stranger if they willingly allowed Eugene to participate in their sex life that way.

 

The creators' line is that Daryl is straight, but I'll believe it when I see it, frankly. Gabriel could be gay, straight, asexual, who knows? I don't think there's anything in the show to suggest what Gabriel's orientation is, one way or another.

They showed a picture of Gabriel's wife or girlfriend sometime back.

[Pete Martell]

The only long-term and strongly-written relationship on this show has been Glenn and Maggie.  Rick and Lori was mostly bad soap opera.  All the others have been transitory, sparsely developed, and generally uninteresting.  I'm not even looking forward much to Rick and Michonne, because Rick is basically a pretty boring character when he isn't doing his badass routine.  I don't expect to see sparks flying off the screen with this one.  A lot of it has to do with the fact that most of the characters on this show are rather bland and uninteresting.  Only a handful of them, such as Carol and Michonne, hold my interest.  A lot of that has to do with the writing, which is very one-note.

 

For me Rick's one of the main guys on the show who has sparked a lot with women when allowed the rare flirtatious moment. Not so much Jessie, but Lori, even Andrea, and then Michonne. There's an innate sensuality between them when we're allowed to see it, a real maturity and honesty that offsets how much TV shows seem to be going into mix-and-match pairings and baiting to get a reaction on social media.

[SimoneS]

I would never describe Rick as boring. I think that he is why the show works so well. When he is not doing his intense dangerous crazy thing, he is pretty charming and funny. I think that he has had good chemistry with all his leading ladies, even the much maligned Jessie. Of course, I think that he works best with Michonne where the chemistry is combined with genuine respect and partnership.

[Ocean Chick]

They showed a picture of Gabriel's wife or girlfriend sometime back.

 

I don't think she was his girlfriend.  She seemed to be one of his parishioners, or maybe the organist.  Someone he was friendly with, but not romantically attached.  She was one of the walkers at the food bank where Bob got bit.

[that one guy]

I'm indifferent to Abe and Sasha simply because it's so out of the blue. When did they spend time together and develop a bond prior to the big zombie run? Frankly, with her brother and Bob dead, the only person I can remember her interacting with a lot who's still alive is Maggie, and none of that was this season. I wish they'd bring that friendship back, actually. She had a lot of story arc in seasons four and five, but it all feels resolved. It feels a bit like they had to either do something with her or kill her off, so it's romance. But I don't see how this has any potential, I'd rather they developed the whole Tara and Denise thing instead

and have Abraham be the one who got the arrow through the face, which is what happened in the comics.

[NoWillToResist]

The only long-term and strongly-written relationship on this show has been Glenn and Maggie.  Rick and Lori was mostly bad soap opera.  All the others have been transitory, sparsely developed, and generally uninteresting.  I'm not even looking forward much to Rick and Michonne, because Rick is basically a pretty boring character when he isn't doing his badass routine.  I don't expect to see sparks flying off the screen with this one.  A lot of it has to do with the fact that most of the characters on this show are rather bland and uninteresting.  Only a handful of them, such as Carol and Michonne, hold my interest.  A lot of that has to do with the writing, which is very one-note.

 

I would take your comment one further and say that, for me, NONE of the "romantic" relationships on this show held/hold any interest for me. I don't think any of them are well done or have done any favours to the characters who were put in the relationships. I have found the familial relationships and friendships far more interesting and better developed/written.

[slade3]

I know it's a matter of taste but I didn't consider Rick OR Glen OR Daryl to be "hot".  These men have grown on me as the series has evolved, mostly by familiarity and their demeanor.  I'll admit that Rick's brand of Clint Eastwood gone cray has me delcaring him a bona fide sex symbol, but if goofy-behind Andy Lincoln hit on me on the street, I'd tell him to keep walking.  When the show started I was all about Shane.  Dark, smoldering and musclebound is one of the types that catches my attention.  I was also digging The Gov (lookswise, not at all the person) because I also like tall, handsome and intense.  Glenn looked like a little boy to me and Rick looked like he needed some Vitamins C and E fed to him intravenously, he was all scurvy looking.  What is "sexy" isn't always connected to looks and who knows how the actor who plays Tobin is like in real life.  For instance I find real life Aaron to be hubba hubba, real life Eugene isn't wholly unattractive either.  But I don't think there are any pretty boys in the whole cast. 

 

As for Carol with a hot alpha male, that will take a minute.  Alpha males mate most naturally with alpha females - or easily conqured young hot babes.  Carol is not an alpha yet.  She is duplicitous and ambiguous.  She doesn't seem to know who she is or fully who she wants to be.  She's decided that there was something wrong with the Carol who was married to Ed and mother to Sophia.  So now she tries to out Rick Rick.  But Rick is motivated by love, not self hatred.  Maggie and Michonne are women who know who they are, why they fight, what means the most to them.  They are not defined by those alpha males at their sides.  Those men were drawn to them because they were smart enough to recognize how awesome those women were.  Carol doesn't let anybody see who she really is, because she hates that person.  She has major issues and she needs a man who is going to disarm her, denude her and love her for who she really is so that she can be capable of the same thing.  This season there have been two men who have taken the time to really look into Carol, Morgan and Tobin.  I am really interested to see if the show allows one of them to finally make it inside.

 

Oh, this take on the "hot" men of TWD made me laugh. Thank you. I also love your take on Carol.

 

 

I think Rick is really hot, but I've never been a big fan of Andy Lincoln's looks (really didn't like him in Love Actually). I think he's grown into his looks and I'm quite fond of him with a beard. (I think he looked his best late season 3/early season 4/and he looks good now). I think Glenn is adorable. I wouldn't have been attracted to him if I'd been watching TWD season 2 live. He looked like a child and it would have felt wrong. Now he's still a bit fragile, but a nice looking man. And Daryl has great arms.

 

I've never liked Carol and you capture why here - she is duplicitous. I've had this sense that she'd turn on any one of them if it came down to it, including Rick (but maybe not Daryl). She killed Karen and David and let the group wonder about it until Rick figured it out. She tried to turn Rick on Michonne after Michonne knocked him out. And I think the look Rick gives her when she walks into the room with Glenn and Abe just as Michonne asks where he got the gun? For me, that look is what makes Rick realize who he can trust and why he shouldn't keep lying to Michonne. Because Michonne would have owned up to being in on the gun thing with him and never would have let him take the blame on his own. And this is because she is not motivated by love. Because of this, I don't see her finding a meaningful relationship yet.

[Nashville]

They showed a picture of Gabriel's wife or girlfriend sometime back.

  

I don't think she was his girlfriend.  She seemed to be one of his parishioners, or maybe the organist. 

Pretty sure she was the church organist.

Her relationship to Gabriel's organ is still a matter of conjecture.

[slade3]

  

Pretty sure she was the church organist.

Her relationship to Gabriel's organ is still a matter of conjecture.

OMG! Thank you. Good one.

[catcory]

I think Rick is just fine and dandy.

[rogueprinzess]

I think Rick is really hot, but I've never been a big fan of Andy Lincoln's looks (really didn't like him in Love Actually). I think he's grown into his looks and I'm quite fond of him with a beard. (I think he looked his best late season 3/early season 4/and he looks good now). I think Glenn is adorable. I wouldn't have been attracted to him if I'd been watching TWD season 2 live. He looked like a child and it would have felt wrong. Now he's still a bit fragile, but a nice looking man. And Daryl has great arms.

 

ITA with this. I think Rick's "hotness" to me has to do with his overall persona, not just his physicality (though he does have very pretty blue eyes when he's not squinting). I'm not a fan of clean-cut Andy Lincoln either; he wears scruff well. Steven Yeun/Glenn just has an overall youthful look about him, though the last two seasons he's let his hair grow out and managed a moustache and goatee so he too has more of a grown up look. I find him more endearing than hot and I think that's by design. Daryl's arms are things of legend. If you looked from season 1 to now, Norman has been lifting some serious weights. If anyone kind of sparked from the beginning for me, it was definitely Shane, and after watching Daredevil this weekend, John Bernthal still does it. He just has so much swagger that has nothing to do with the characters he plays.

[Caelicola]

I'm the opposite, in that ON SCREEN I find scruffy, crazed and bloody men really hot -bearded Rick, deranged Shane, Daryl before the grime got to two inches thick- but IRL my biggest turn-on is kindness. So, any of those three hitting on me? Running away screaming, possibly filing restraining orders. Andy Lincoln, Jon Bernthal and Norman Reedus, who are by all accounts unfailingly kind? Yessss, please. Glenn/Steven Yeun is a different matter, he's kind on the show as well, and he only got hot to me around season 4, before that he was a baby.

So, ogling through a screen? The wilder and bloodier, the sexier. Actually contemplating one of them hitting on me? Yeeesh, I'd be genuinely scared.

The most physically gorgeous to me is still Corey Hawkins (Heath), when he isn't wearing the rattiest, fakest dreads in existence. And Seth Gilliam, when he's not peeing his pants or driving under the influence.

[slade3]

I'm the opposite, in that ON SCREEN I find scruffy, crazed and bloody men really hot -bearded Rick, deranged Shane, Daryl before the grime got to two inches thick- but IRL my biggest turn-on is kindness. So, any of those three hitting on me? Running away screaming, possibly filing restraining orders. Andy Lincoln, Jon Bernthal and Norman Reedus, who are by all accounts unfailingly kind? Yessss, please. Glenn/Steven Yeun is a different matter, he's kind on the show as well, and he only got hot to me around season 4, before that he was a baby.

So, ogling through a screen? The wilder and bloodier, the sexier. Actually contemplating one of them hitting on me? Yeeesh, I'd be genuinely scared.

The most physically gorgeous to me is still Corey Hawkins (Heath), when he isn't wearing the rattiest, fakest dreads in existence. And Seth Gilliam, when he's not peeing his pants or driving under the influence.

I just googled Seth Gilliam and was surprised to see his RL mugshot! Doesn't that get actors fired?

 

I have to admit I like kindness in real life too, but I'm not a huge fan of actors. I've spent most of my life around actors and they drive me crazy. Rick Grimes, season 3 - present, is that dream alpha male I love, because he's kind and caring to the people he loves. And he's a spooner and very touchy and very sexual, so he's got it all.

[SevenStars]

ITA with this. I think Rick's "hotness" to me has to do with his overall persona, not just his physicality (though he does have very pretty blue eyes when he's not squinting). I'm not a fan of clean-cut Andy Lincoln either; he wears scruff well. Steven Yeun/Glenn just has an overall youthful look about him, though the last two seasons he's let his hair grow out and managed a moustache and goatee so he too has more of a grown up look. I find him more endearing than hot and I think that's by design. Daryl's arms are things of legend. If you looked from season 1 to now, Norman has been lifting some serious weights. If anyone kind of sparked from the beginning for me, it was definitely Shane, and after watching Daredevil this weekend, John Bernthal still does it. He just has so much swagger that has nothing to do with the characters he plays.

I agree with this. I find Andy without a scruff cute and adorable but not hot. I find Rick really hot. I don't find anything hot about Daryl or NR. I think this season Steve looks hot.

I think John has a dangerous edge to him, which makes him hot imo. That gives him a swagger, no matter which character he is playing.

I just googled Seth Gilliam and was surprised to see his RL mugshot! Doesn't that get actors fired?

I don't think so because if that was the case a lot of actors would be without a job and never to be hired again.

[Ocean Chick]

Ross is another one that wears the scruff well.  On the show, clean shaven, he's a turn-off to me.  I think it may be that he has a bit of a baby face going on.  But between season when he grows his beard out?  Yes, PLEASE!

[slf]

I'm inclined to root for abused wives/single mom characters (have any moms survived this with their kids?), so Jessie being rather bland and poorly written didn't bother me much. But I did not see even the tiniest spark of chemistry between them, did not care about their relationship, and wasn't sad to see it go (but I was annoyed that we lost her character and her kids). It felt very by-the-numbers despite the potential for drama.

 

I buy Rick and Michonne having been planned earlier in the series. To be honest, I would have had a problem with them having Michonne be so attached to Carl and Judith, and so soon, if they weren't going to hook her up with Rick. It would have felt baity to me, especially considering how much Rick leans on her. She's basically been his work wife for three seasons so I don't think it's rushed or manufactured just to appease fans. (Since when have the show runners cared about appeasing fans?) They actually have chemistry and have since their first scenes, and I like the idea of having a power couple lead the show. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by slf

[Mattipoo]

I am sorry who are John and Ross? How come I haven't heard of or seen these 2 supposedly hot guys before on TWD? Would anyone care to refresh my memory?

[Timetoread]

If anyone kind of sparked from the beginning for me, it was definitely Shane, and after watching Daredevil this weekend, John Bernthal still does it. He just has so much swagger that has nothing to do with the characters he plays.

 

So much word to this!  When Shane died I was devastated!  But like I've said before, the swag is EVERYTHING.  All the things that men feel insecure about: height, weight, bald, age - really doesn't matter because it is all about the swag.  Robert DeNiro can get it old, young, fat, skinny, good, bad, bloody, clean, whatever. The man owns any room that he is in and THAT is what makes a man attractive.  Somewhere along the line, goofy pretty boy Rick Grimes picked up swag and honestly he can get it any day he asks, including he crazy, wild man of Borneo days.   I am seriously about to see a shrink to figure why I find Rick putting a machete to somebody damn near foreplay. 

[Timetoread]

I'm the opposite, in that ON SCREEN I find scruffy, crazed and bloody men really hot -bearded Rick, deranged Shane, Daryl before the grime got to two inches thick- but IRL my biggest turn-on is kindness. So, any of those three hitting on me? Running away screaming, possibly filing restraining orders. Andy Lincoln, Jon Bernthal and Norman Reedus, who are by all accounts unfailingly kind? Yessss, please. Glenn/Steven Yeun is a different matter, he's kind on the show as well, and he only got hot to me around season 4, before that he was a baby.

So, ogling through a screen? The wilder and bloodier, the sexier. Actually contemplating one of them hitting on me? Yeeesh, I'd be genuinely scared.

The most physically gorgeous to me is still Corey Hawkins (Heath), when he isn't wearing the rattiest, fakest dreads in existence. And Seth Gilliam, when he's not peeing his pants or driving under the influence.

 

In real life I like acutal alpha males versus the wanna be alpha males.  The diff?  Actuals don't feel the need to convince others of what is fact.  they don't insist that you follow them, they do what they're going to do and most likely you will follow them because they take care of business.  I tend to gravitate toward strong men with a heart.  Not be trite but I figured out that it is because that is how my dad is/was.  My dad was a bonafide tough guy - a real life James Bond.  I always felt safe with my Daddy because while I was his precious, spoiled-ass princess, and he was sweet to me and my mom, if anybody DARED to threaten his family - well, let's just say that I hear Nebraska's nice.  I guess because I was raised by that, I get the complexity, kindness, and often the sensitivity of these men.  I GOT Shane - he wasn't a bad guy he was a guy who was the victim of the world most ridiculous mind F, a la Lori.  I GET Crazy Rick.  I get Dirty Daryl.   If I met them IRL the only one that I would run from is Daryl because, stench.

I am sorry who are John and Ross? How come I haven't heard of or seen these 2 supposedly hot guys before on TWD? Would anyone care to refresh my memory?

 

John Bernthal who played Shane and Ross Marquand who plays Aaron.  Both can get it.

[mandolin]

I am sorry who are John and Ross? How come I haven't heard of or seen these 2 supposedly hot guys before on TWD? Would anyone care to refresh my memory?

Jon Bernthal - Shane

Ross Marquand - Aaron

[SevenStars]

Andy can get it because he seems really comfortable in his own skin. He doesn't seem to feel the need to act a certain way or be the life of the party. I find that type of personality to be a real turn on for me, even though I wouldn't really call it on the nose sexy. But he does it for me.

On the other hand, I find Rick to be really sexy but I don't want to sex him up.

I don't find either Daryl or NR to be sexy or attractive. And NR public personality is a little too much for me.

Glenn/SY are handsome but not sexy to me.

[Enero]

I agree with others. What makes Rick sexy is his persona. He is crazy and dangerous, but he is also very gentle and loving with those he care about

ITA with this. I think Rick's "hotness" to me has to do with his overall persona, not just his physicality (though he does have very pretty blue eyes when he's not squinting).

I completely agree. Rick is hot for all the reasons stated above. I thought he was at his hottest - physically, late S3 early S4.

I guess I'm in the minority, but JB does nothing for me. I think he's a good actor and I thought he made Shane interesting and entertaining, but I never thought he was sexy.

RM is nice looking, but Aaron does nothing for me. The same goes for CH when he doesn't have on that terrible wig.

NR is ok, but Darryl...I don't know. At times I think he can be hot but at other times not so much. He is relatively attractive and now that they are settled in Alexandria I'm surprised more women haven't hit on him and maybe they have but he coolly turned them down.

I do think that he had chemistry with Michonne back in S4. Him getting on to her about "running off" were interesting and I was surprised that we didn't see more interactions between the two since it was implied that they had spent a lot of time on the road together looking for the Governor.

I also thought he had sparks with Aaron, especially when Aaron gave him the motorcycle and asked that he join him on the road. Perhaps Darryl is bisexual? At any rate, he seems completely closed down to any anything beyond friendship.

[Nashville]

Methinks Daryl could do with a trip to Castle Anthrax - y'know, just to knock some of the rust off his gears.

[DearEvette]

Yeah, I think Rick is sexy because he gives off a major alpha male vibe.  But also, Andy Lincoln has a great walk. 

[rogueprinzess]

So much word to this!  When Shane died I was devastated!  But like I've said before, the swag is EVERYTHING.  All the things that men feel insecure about: height, weight, bald, age - really doesn't matter because it is all about the swag.  Robert DeNiro can get it old, young, fat, skinny, good, bad, bloody, clean, whatever. The man owns any room that he is in and THAT is what makes a man attractive.  Somewhere along the line, goofy pretty boy Rick Grimes picked up swag and honestly he can get it any day he asks, including he crazy, wild man of Borneo days.   I am seriously about to see a shrink to figure why I find Rick putting a machete to somebody damn near foreplay. 

 

And let the church say "Amen!". I'm fairly certain I rank highly on all tests for mental instability due to my attraction to men when they're angry and how hot Rick Grimes is when he puts on his murder coat and goes to crazy town. It's like Spanish Fly on steroids for my ovaries and I'm pretty sure that's very, very wrong.

 

Yeah, I think Rick is sexy because he gives off a major alpha male vibe.  But also, Andy Lincoln has a great walk. 

 

Right!?! Andy has that little bow-legged stalk that is all kinds of sexy. Jon Bernthal also has a way of carrying himself - arms back, chest out, very deliberate steps - that's very luscious. 

[Pete Martell]

Watching the last episode again, I'm more convinced that, although I wish we'd gotten a little something earlier in the season to establish, the show was right to barely show Carol and Tobin together. I know a lot of people felt like they had no idea why she wanted to be with him, but in the end I think that was the point - there was no particular reason, other than the little we saw (he's a boring, decent enough guy, a blank slate). That choice ended up working well for me.

 

Unfortunately, I was left even more confused as to why Sasha wanted to go to the next level with Abraham. I wish there had been a lot more to her reasons than just him coming by and her going, essentially, "OK." Sonequa did well with the acting side, but it wasn't enough for me.

 

Given what happens to men close to her, he'd better get Eugene to build him the strongest plot armor around...

[slade3]

Yeah, I think Rick is sexy because he gives off a major alpha male vibe.  But also, Andy Lincoln has a great walk. 

Yes. The walk is everything, especially when he's holding that big gun on his back to keep it in place. I hate guns, but this is a man who makes carrying a gun look sexy.

[SimoneS]

I have to say that Rick and Michonne were crazy hot in bed together. I appreciated that he was going down and the low sheet when he turned over. Very nice. I liked that they are still talking about defending Alexandria and not just kids or something very domesticated. 

 

Glenn and Maggie were also steamy in the shower. Those bruises were nasty though.

 

I am sorry that things are tense between Sasha and Rosita. I like Sasha with Abraham. She is finally happy again and he seems to have found some kind of peace. 

[Eyes High]

Yeah, I think Rick is sexy because he gives off a major alpha male vibe.  But also, Andy Lincoln has a great walk. 

 

I don't know. Rick in alpha mode always seems so forced and even silly to me, like a mild-mannered guy who's pretending to be a tough guy rather than someone who's actually tough...which would make sense for Rick, given where he started, but the show seems to want us to believe that Rick really is as badass and as hard as he acts, and I just don't see it. It could be the actor; Andrew Lincoln wasn't exactly getting cast as tough guys or law enforcement types (compared to say Michael Cudlitz) prior to TWD. Jon Bernthal's Shane, on the other hand, oozed that same quality that Andrew Lincoln seems to lack. I always believed Shane was every inch as dangerous as he looked. I never believed it of Rick and I will never believe it, no matter how many throats he bites.

 

As for the attractiveness of the characters, swaggering, macho alpha male posturing is far less appealing to me than humble, unfussy, quiet, calm competence. (I suspect that I'm not the only one who feels this way, as it might explain why Daryl, who is just as tough as Rick but who has no interest in macho theatrics, is way more popular as an object of fannish lust than Rick.) Rick boasting about how badass and strong he is? Not hot. Glenn effortlessly snatching Enid's gun and quietly telling her to let go without losing his temper? Super hot.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Eyes High

[Pete Martell]

Rick boasting about how badass and strong he is? Not hot. 

 

I don't see Rick as a character who boasts about how badass and strong he is very often. 

As for the attractiveness of the characters, swaggering, macho alpha male posturing is far less appealing to me than humble, unfussy, quiet, calm competence. (I suspect that I'm not the only one who feels this way, as it might explain why Daryl, who is just as tough as Rick but who has no interest in macho theatrics, is way more popular as an object of fannish lust than Rick.) 

 

I felt like Daryl became a pinup and broadly popular at a time when he had a lot of swagger (albeit quiet swagger), while Rick was drowning in angst and suffocating in the depths of Shane/Lori/Rick hell. It was only after he became popular that he became the emo prince he is today, one who probably spends his time looking for old Avril Lavigne tapes. I also don't feel like Rick has any great interest in macho theatrics, it's just something they give both characters. The main difference for me is Daryl's endless moping makes those moments increasingly contrived and false for me. I rolled my eyes a bit when he gunned down Dawn, which I don't think they intended. It was just so manufactured. It's not always like that, but I really do miss what he was in seasons 2 and 3.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Pete Martell