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Timetoread

Love in the Time of Walkers: Relationships in The Walking Dead

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On 11/9/2015 at 11:22 PM, Ocean Chick said:

I have to protest here - Michonne is not too old for love!

2 old=Carol

2 young=Judith

2 awesome=Michonne

This is what I always see as the "real" reason this black woman can't have one of the handsome white males as her leading man - she's simply too wonderful to be weighed down with being loved and must remain in mourning and celibacy to honor her dead. Also someone loving her would mean the show is becoming a soap opera but sex for Rick is well earned. Such is the status quo. Perhaps we'll refer to Carol, Michonne, and Judith's house as the Home of the Fates - the maiden, the Siren, and the Crone. We'll call it Grecian Art and excuse it for otherwise being a trope.

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Here's the thing, though: I feel like in this kind of world where you've watched so damned many of the people you loved die in awful ways, when you could be next tomorrow and even if you aren't things look pretty bleak, in that kind of world people would be turning to each other for comfort and fourteen days would not be a short time to know someone before you're in his or her pants. Because if you don't seize the day today they could be eaten tomorrow and you'd have missed your chance.

I think it's strange that there isn't more of this type of "I just met you and this is crazy--let's do it".

I get that. I agree. I've argued this myself many times. And that's what I've seen in Z Nation, not 6 seasons of TWD.

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My head!canon is that Jessie is Rick's transition woman between Lori and Michonne. I think he's scared shitless of much he really cares about Michonne so he's settling on someone for the moment who he doesn't really have much feeling or attachment too at this point.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

Maggie being pregnant...Good job Glenn and Maggie. Guess she doesn't remember the stupidity of Lori's pregnancy in ZA.  Sigh.

I like Jessie. When Rick went into the garage I said "How can I find a woman like that!" I am seldom fond of Rick's logic but chasing Jessie could help restore some of his humanity.

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Ocean Chick said

And Tara is getting her second girlfriend? And poor Carol and Michonne haven't yet found one guy friend? That stinks. It's tough to be a bad ass warrior woman - you don't get a mate unless you're a dorky woman who trips over her own feet, I guess. Better not get too good killing walkers and baddies, Jessie, or Rick will lose interest in you.

Carol and Michonne are awesome fighters but nothing about them says "girlfriend material". That is more about how the characters are written than anything else. They are more plot devices than actual people. Do they have wants or desires? Andrea's tv character was written as a tough girl who needed a man but she was rewarded with a Shane quickie and The Governor.

Edited by Sunnydayman

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Carol and Michonne are awesome fighters but nothing about them says "girlfriend material". 

Oh, I don't know.  Even from my prosaic, heterosexual, married-woman POV, I see Michonne and think "DEFINITE girlfriend material."  I'm blinded by the awesome.  ;-)

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Oh, I don't know. Even from my prosaic, heterosexual, married-woman POV, I see Michonne and think "DEFINITE girlfriend material." I'm blinded by the awesome. ;-)

I could see them both as GF material. But, both have lost a child and a significant other (who weren't such big losses) which might have affected them both.

They both seem more focused on surviving and help the ones they care about survive. I don't think either is ready for romance and romance is not all that practical in the ZA.

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2 old=Carol  ...  the Crone.

And that's not ageist at all!!

Carol is plenty young enough to meet the love of her life and have a smoking affair.

She is now and would be if she was 75.

Edited by Pestilentia
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I could see them both as GF material. But, both have lost a child and a significant other (who weren't such big losses) which might have affected them both.

They both seem more focused on surviving and help the ones they care about survive. I don't think either is ready for romance and romance is not all that practical in the ZA.

 

I don't think this is true.  In fact I think it is just something that is projected on them by the audience.  Michonne, pre apocalypse, had a man.  After he died, she kept herself going - alone in the apocalypse- by talking to his memory.  This is, in fact, the first point she used to bond with Rick.  She understands pining for a lover who is no longer around.  Later we see her playfully flirting with Daryl, talking about how jasper brings out the green in his eyes.  After the prison, she went back to talking to Mike before deciding that it was worth it to take risks to not be alone.  Last season she was one of only 3 women to notice how handsome Rick is when he's clean.  The other two were married at the time and one he is boning as we speak.  This season we saw her talking to that Red Shirt dude about how love saved him and thinking really hard about it.  I think much of what has been shown indicates that Michonne is a healthy, red blooded woman who has a need to love and be loved.  Yes the love for a child is part of her makeup - mourning her own and latching on to Carl.  But loving a man is also a part of her makeup.  She hasn't given up on romance or rolled her eyes or turned down suitor after suitor.  There just isn't any man showing her any interest yet.

 

As for Carol, she has always appreciated Daryl as a man and playfully flirted with him.  I loved her reminding the prison dude that she was NOT a lesbian.  Carol has been shut down since the Grove, however.  Even Daryl hasn't been able to reach her.  Again, this is more because of a recent trauma than because of the fact that her sexual organs no longer work.

 

I say all this because I keep waiting for even one person to admit that the supposed "reasons" why these two women aren't considered "girlfriend material" are not based on anything but projections of a trope.

 

And that's not ageist at all!!

Carol is plenty young enough to meet the love of her life and have a smoking affair.

She is now and would be if she was 75.

 

You missed my point.  Rather you are re-articulating my point, not realizing that we are in agreement.  It is agist and racist to single out these two female characters as too "special" or "different" or "damaged" or "badass" to love and be loved.   That something specific separates them from the other, openly sexual female cast members.  Society desexualizes women they don't consider to be the aesthetic ideal or socially acceptable as coveted.  Even with the doctor.  No way they were going to give the fat girl an actual man - make her a lesbian because Tara is lonely and must be Boo'd up at all times to stave off the PC patrol.  The bottom line is that old women are in love all the time.  So are black women.  So are fat women.  Just not on tv.  You're just not allowed to get some on tv unless you look like Jessie, Maggie, Sasha, and Rosita.  To quote Janis Ian, "I learned the truth at seventeen/that love was meant for beauty queens. .... And those of us with ravaged faces/lacking in the social graces/ desperately remained at home..."

 

I thought of that too, at first. But even when she got him on the ground, she still wasn't going for the head! 

 

To be fair, it is not a natural attack strategy to go for the head.  In fact when dealing with a live person, it is not a smart strategy as the head is comprised of a very hard skull and teeth to boot.  Attack the soft tissue that holds vital organs.  When the organs are compromised, so goes the body - most predatory animals use this strategy by instinct.  However, only when it is articulated bluntly that the brain has to be destroyed in order to stop the zombie, does one's aim - particularly when one is flailing in distress - tighten up. 

Edited by Timetoread
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Well, I figured Maggie was preggers since the first episode, what with her little talk under her breath with Glenn, and his telling her to stay at home and keep safe. He said almost the same exact thing at the prison when they made the Big Spot run, and they thought she was pregnant then. I'm sure both she and the baby will be fine, and Glenn will turn up alive and well and we'll all play Happy Families. It'll be sweet.

And Tara is getting her second girlfriend? And poor Carol and Michonne haven't yet found one guy friend? That stinks. It's tough to be a bad ass warrior woman - you don't get a mate unless you're a dorky woman who trips over her own feet, I guess. Better not get too good killing walkers and baddies, Jessie, or Rick will lose interest in you.

Poor Eric has disappeared into the wood work, hssn't he? I guess Aaron can't be bothered with helping his husband with the broken ankle. He'd rather run off with a recent female acquaintance to assuage his guilt over losing his backpack. Sucks to be Eric.

And I think Tovah looks fine for both her age and the circumstances. Deanna's losing her grip and her confidence. She's forgoing using makeup and the sweat is layered on now, and it's realistic.

If this were a Hallmark Channel movie or a romance novel it would stink. If TPTB focused on pairing up everyone I don't think this would be the same show. I don't think I'd enjoy it, either.

And I liked this episode. I'm not a Richonne shipper (or a TWD shipper of any kind though I did notice that Michone and Heath had good screen chemistry) so I was able to sit back and enjoy. I thought the pace was good--and welcome after last week which I did not enjoy,

I can also see the narrative benefit of Glenn's fate being so up in the air. As a fan I want to know NOW, but I can see the impact they're going for. If this was a movie, Glenn would show up at the end and it'd be a super twist in the storyline. But because it's a show that we fans pick through (not a bad thing in and of itself) it's harder for the show runners to pull it off without seeming like it's Shenanigans.

I don't think this is true. In fact I think it is just something that is projected on them by the audience. Michonne, pre apocalypse, had a man. After he died, she kept herself going - alone in the apocalypse- by talking to his memory. This is, in fact, the first point she used to bond with Rick. She understands pining for a lover who is no longer around. Later we see her playfully flirting with Daryl, talking about how jasper brings out the green in his eyes. After the prison, she went back to talking to Mike before deciding that it was worth it to take risks to not be alone. Last season she was one of only 3 women to notice how handsome Rick is when he's clean. The other two were married at the time and one he is boning as we speak. This season we saw her talking to that Red Shirt dude about how love saved him and thinking really hard about it. I think much of what has been shown indicates that Michonne is a healthy, red blooded woman who has a need to love and be loved. Yes the love for a child is part of her makeup - mourning her own and latching on to Carl. But loving a man is also a part of her makeup. She hasn't given up on romance or rolled her eyes or turned down suitor after suitor. There just isn't any man showing her any interest yet.

As for Carol, she has always appreciated Daryl as a man and playfully flirted with him. I loved her reminding the prison dude that she was NOT a lesbian. Carol has been shut down since the Grove, however. Even Daryl hasn't been able to reach her. Again, this is more because of a recent trauma than because of the fact that her sexual organs no longer work.

I say all this because I keep waiting for even one person to admit that the supposed "reasons" why these two women aren't considered "girlfriend material" are not based on anything but projections of a trope.

You missed my point. Rather you are re-articulating my point, not realizing that we are in agreement. It is agist and racist to single out these two female characters as too "special" or "different" or "damaged" or "badass" to love and be loved. That something specific separates them from the other, openly sexual female cast members. Society desexualizes women they don't consider to be the aesthetic ideal or socially acceptable as coveted. Even with the doctor. No way they were going to give the fat girl an actual man - make her a lesbian because Tara is lonely and must be Boo'd up at all times to stave off the PC patrol. The bottom line is that old women are in love all the time. So are black women. So are fat women. Just not on tv. You're just not allowed to get some on tv unless you look like Jessie, Maggie, Sasha, and Rosita. To quote Janis Ian, "I learned the truth at seventeen/that love was meant for beauty queens. .... And those of us with ravaged faces/lacking in the social graces/ desperately remained at home..."

To be fair, it is not a natural attack strategy to go for the head. In fact when dealing with a live person, it is not a smart strategy as the head is comprised of a very hard skull and teeth to boot. Attack the soft tissue that holds vital organs. When the organs are compromised, so goes the body - most predatory animals use this strategy by instinct. However, only when it is articulated bluntly that the brain has to be destroyed in order to stop the zombie, does one's aim - particularly when one is flailing in distress - tighten up.

I missed the boning. I only saw a kiss.

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And I liked this episode. I'm not a Richonne shipper (or a TWD shipper of any kind though I did notice that Michone and Heath had good screen chemistry) so I was able to sit back and enjoy.

 

I'm not a Richonne shipper. I've never seen anything more than friendship between them. I was still not able to enjoy this episode, although I was definitely sitting back. Rick and Jessie aside (which, yes, annoyed me - mostly because there are other priorities right now!), I just felt like this episode was odd, clunky, and poorly written. 

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I think that Michonne should have a love life. I just don't know that it should involve Rick. (Other than the fact that she's gorgeous and he's handsome, I don't see what draws them together.).  I just haven't noticed a ton of sexual chemistry between them.  So, question for the Richonne shippers -- does she ever smile at Rick or laugh at something he says?

 

Do the two biggest badasses on the show have to hook up?  Also why not Daryl and Michonne? I think they could be really good for each other. (Admittedly, I love the pairing of Carol and Daryl but if that's not gonna happen ...)

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Lol! It's been noted many times before that Michonne could have chemistry with a tree stump. Re. this episode I was disappointed that we weren't fully privy to her conversation upon her arrival back in ASZhatland. Rather we were given that scene from Deanna's perspective, which IMO sucked.

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I agree about Michonne having chemistry with a tree stump. And it's not always sexual. I just think she's a wonderful, subtle actress. She has a way of bringing a connection out of the people she's working with. I actually think she and Carl have some of the best chemistry on the show. 

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I think that Michonne should have a love life. I just don't know that it should involve Rick. (Other than the fact that she's gorgeous and he's handsome, I don't see what draws them together.).  I just haven't noticed a ton of sexual chemistry between them.  So, question for the Richonne shippers -- does she ever smile at Rick or laugh at something he says?

 

Do the two biggest badasses on the show have to hook up?  Also why not Daryl and Michonne? I think they could be really good for each other. (Admittedly, I love the pairing of Carol and Daryl but if that's not gonna happen ...)

 

Q: for the Richonne shippers -- does she ever smile at Rick or laugh at something he says?

 

A: I could seriously spam the crap out of Michonne and/or Rick's threads with countless pics of them making googly-eyes at each other.  But I will restrain myself.  And I really do think there's something up with the Widow Anderson's plaid shirts (of which she has more than one).  OR it could simply be, again, the writers trolling the crap out of us, which apparently they enjoy doing (Gimple said Richonne were the Pam & Jim of the show, etc.).  I only concede the last point because I have no idea what they're thinking and find it hard to even speculate about it.

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Speaking of hook-ups, I always thought that male prisoner that thought Carol was a lesbian was perfect for her (was his name Alex???). He was sweet and talked to her all the time and valued her opinion. I was bummed for Carol when he died. I liked her chemistry and playfulness with him. I agree with whoever said up-thread that Carol is really suffering right now. She has had a lot of tragedies and it pisses me off that Rick just dumps Judith with her all the time. Just because she has ovaries, does not mean that this is her responsibility. She has had several traumas regarding children (one her very own), 2 very recent ones, this must be painful for her to care for a child and love them and then have them taken away, and Rick is too busy getting some to see past his own needs and to SEE that Carol is suffering. 

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He threw shade at her.  She told him to shut up.  Other than the fact that they are both black and wear braids, I didn't see chemistry or anything in common at all.

Well, that is how most romance novels and romcoms start, not to mention my own marriage.  lol

I think Heath is the hottest guy in ASZ and is smart, tough, and has skills, and he doesn't whine and cry like a baby.  Why shouldn't she have some of that?

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He threw shade at her. She told him to shut up. Other than the fact that they are both black and wear braids, I didn't see chemistry or anything in common at all.

To be fair, that is not all that happened. She shared what the struggle has been for those not lucky enough to have been in Alexandria. He eventually saw what she meant. They worked together. And it's not because they're both black, and I don't necessarily think they need to hook up. It's just that I saw more chemistry with the two actors in their short time together than I've seen with Danai and Andy. Danai has chemistry with everyone because she's amazing, but I don't see any extra chemistry with Andy like I did with the actor playing Heath. Yes, they both happen to be black, but that is not a factor in what I saw.

Everyone has their own view on things, of course, but it is really not a matter of opinion that there was more conversation and interaction than him throwing shade and her saying "shut up".

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Well, that is how most romance novels and romcoms start, not to mention my own marriage.  lol

I think Heath is the hottest guy in ASZ and is smart, tough, and has skills, and he doesn't whine and cry like a baby.  Why shouldn't she have some of that?

To be fair, that is not all that happened. She shared what the struggle has been for those not lucky enough to have been in Alexandria. He eventually saw what she meant. They worked together. And it's not because they're both black, and I don't necessarily think they need to hook up. It's just that I saw more chemistry with the two actors in their short time together than I've seen with Danai and Andy. Danai has chemistry with everyone because she's amazing, but I don't see any extra chemistry with Andy like I did with the actor playing Heath. Yes, they both happen to be black, but that is not a factor in what I saw.

Everyone has their own view on things, of course, but it is really not a matter of opinion that there was more conversation and interaction than him throwing shade and her saying "shut up".

Clearly that was my summation of their interaction and its impact on me. We all have opinions and mine is that I dont find him attractive at all, nor have I seen or heard dialouge that differed from any other AZHat to make me exclaim "Ah ha! Michonne's soul mate!" All I see is a Black dude who actually spoke to Michonne - not kindly, but beggars can't be choosers. Now I agree that in tv land if two ethnic people acknowledge each other's existence then it must be true love. So perhaps you're right, queue the wedding march! Abe better watch out, if a Latino guy bumps into Rosita and says excuse me, he's lost her forever.

I get that those are the rules. They cast a pretty blonde, so Rick is set. Michonne better get in her chocolate quickly before Heath gets killed and she has to go back to her trope cloister alongside Carol. Honestly, this is TWD, there was no point in even naming him.

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Michonne has been exposed to quite a few black men and not paired with them.  Heath is the only one that I could see her being possibly interested in.  Heath is the only person of any color at ASZ that I could see her being interested in.  Heath is the only person of any color that *I* would be interested in, and I'm white.  Spencer is handsome but he's pathetic. 

 

I certainly didn't say he was her soulmate.  I said she should get some.  Your opinion seems to be that it's racist for Michonne to be paired with a black man.  Or that it's racist for her to be paired with anyone except Rick Grimes.  I don't want her with Rick because he is beneath her.

Edited by peach
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 Abe better watch out, if a Latino guy bumps into Rosita and says excuse me, he's lost her forever.

 

 

It looks like they're trying to make her happen with Spencer, and gingers always lose to guys like Spencer.  In fact, it's really crazy this ginger guy has a woman as hot as Rosita.  Prince Harry he is not.  I guess if your other choice is Eugene, then....   Tyrese had a white gf, and they also tried, IMO, to show Spencer being initially attracted to Sasha, but she was intent on shooting everything in sight for a while, and didn't notice.  It seems like they're trying to mix it up.  But there's also nothing wrong with Sasha and Bob having a thing.

Edited by peach
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Your opinion seems to be that it's racist for Michonne to be paired with a black man.  Or that it's racist for her to be paired with anyone except Rick Grimes.

 

Not at all.  I loved to the heavens that they cast Aldis Hodge as her man in the flashback.  I would climb over a thousand Rick Grimeses to get to Aldis Hodge!  I don't have objections to Heath (other than the fact that I don't like him or his looks) based on his blackness.  Honestly, if Sonequa's husband doesn't die, I find HIM attractive too and if they can write him as a decent person, she can give that one a go as well. 

 

My opinion is, has been, and will always be not that it is racist to pair her with a black man, but the assumption that she CANNOT be paired with a white man and that if there are no viable black men present, that she must remain alone.  THAT is racist.  THAT'S my point.  I know you and others didn't see chemistry between her and Rick but I and others did in fact see a lot of chemistry (most likely coming from the actors themselves) in not just one scene but in multiple SEASONS.  It was enough of a thing that it has been addressed by showrunners, bloggers, writers, and many, many fans.  It's not something I pulled out of my ass.  I like them as a couple but I don't NEED them to be a couple.  What I DO need, however, is for the trope of the strong black woman as friend/foe/helper/servant/advisor/maid/deputy/sidekick/mother/mammy and never, ever the leading lady to die a quick and painful death.  And yes, I get offended by the assertion that any male negro within a hundred mile radius is necessarily compatible with Michonne because they exchange two sentences.  A couple of episodes ago everyone wanted her with Morgan because he was there and they made a joke together.  I hate Morgan, hes' not sane, and I would honestly stop watching the show if they put these two together.

 

As for Spencer, he's okay looking but I don't find him attractive at all. Honestly, IMO the most attractive men are Glenn and Aaron.  They both embody what I like in a man.  Strong in body and sprit, not at all cowardly, morally centered, and intellectually adept.  Rick definitely has serious sexy moments, usually when being violent, but sexy to watch and being a good option as a mate are not the same thing.  I think Michonne can handle a man like Rick.  She is drawn to alpha type personalities but she is strong enough to not let them steamroll over her.  Jessie's last round with an alpha male got her beat up and her kid crippled.  She can't actually "handle" Rick but here's hoping that his sanity holds long enough to keep her and the boys safe.  If not she can get her next boyfriend to kill him, like she did with her husband.  She has a type. And so does he.  Clearly she is a woman who can't survive even a week without a man in her life.  Just like Lori. 

Edited by Timetoread
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Huh, I would have never thought of the actor who plays Aaron as handsomer than the one who plays Spencer but I'm a guy so what would I know. I agree that it would be nice if Jessie got a chance to remember what it was like to be her own person before she ended up as someone's girlfriend. I think that's my biggest problem with her storyline with Rick. The Show knows how to make us like her more - let her kill some stuff - but they aren't giving the character enough time to breathe and settle in.

 

As for Michonne, I think she could "handle" Rick fine; I just don't know why she would want to. I don't see Rick providing anything in that relationship that she can't get from any decent looking male. Besides being incredibly good at survival and having come out of the other side of her loss with an immense amount of calm in the face of disaster, the Michonne I see on screen has a strong desire for something more than just surviving the day. So, I would like to see her with someone who would let her live those parts of her personality. RIck is too monomaniacal for me to want that to be all that Michonne gets. OK, saying that I don't see why she might want to date Rick s overstating it - Rick is noble and charismatic even if he is nuts.  I would just rather that she gets someone better than that for her.

 

As for people mentioning Morgan or Heath for her, Meh. I don't see it but we've barely met Heath. (I would have said that Morgan was way too old but google says that the actors are only 13 years apart, which is a decade less than I thought the difference was.)  

But, I think the real reason people mention them so much is not because they are African American but the same reason the fans went crazy when Jessie cut RIck's hair - because both of those names are the names of characters who were boyfriends in the comics.

Edited by rab01
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As for Spencer, he's okay looking but I don't find him attractive at all. Honestly, IMO the most attractive men are Glenn and Aaron.  They both embody what I like in a man.  Strong in body and sprit, not at all cowardly, morally centered, and intellectually adept.  Rick definitely has serious sexy moments, usually when being violent, but sexy to watch and being a good option as a mate are not the same thing. 

 

I actually do see chemistry between Michonne and Rick.  But even if Michonne and Rick got on like a house on fire, I think from a writing standpoint it would be a mistake to put them in a relationship, because it paints them in a corner.  And it would probably ruin both characters.  Romance is not this show's strong suit.  What I would like to see is the dynamic if they had to make a life decision and Jessie wanted Rick to do one thing, and Michonne thought he should do another.  I feel like Rick would take Michonne's counsel over his girlfriend and that could be interesting fireworks.  If Scott Gimple really said they are the Pam and Jim of the show, then that means Jessie is Karen.  lol  I don't think any of that will happen though, because we have the life stories to tell of a bunch of stupid ASZers to tell.

 

Glenn and Aaron are attractive, for sure, but they aren't available men,  Aaron doubly so.  So out of the ASZ singles club, I don't see any other men Michonne would be compatible with.  I mean, I guess there's Tobin.  ;P  But I'm too baldist and dorkist for that.  I think what she has in common with Heath is integrity and smarts.  He's no dummy wandering in the woods, he's paying attention to what's really going on with Rick, and he was looking out for their people, the same way Michonne does with hers.  He was upfront with her about his feelings on it.  And they came to an understanding of that in the pet store.  And she backed it up with leaving Glenn and helping Heath get Scott back home.  They certainly don't have to be a couple, either, but he has potential, imo.   Compared to everyone else.  I totally agree with you about Morgan.  Same as when people suggested he could pair up with Carol.  Just no.  He's nutballs. 

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Clearly that was my summation of their interaction and its impact on me. We all have opinions and mine is that I dont find him attractive at all, nor have I seen or heard dialouge that differed from any other AZHat to make me exclaim "Ah ha! Michonne's soul mate!" All I see is a Black dude who actually spoke to Michonne - not kindly, but beggars can't be choosers. Now I agree that in tv land if two ethnic people acknowledge each other's existence then it must be true love. So perhaps you're right, queue the wedding march! Abe better watch out, if a Latino guy bumps into Rosita and says excuse me, he's lost her forever.

I get that those are the rules. They cast a pretty blonde, so Rick is set. Michonne better get in her chocolate quickly before Heath gets killed and she has to go back to her trope cloister alongside Carol. Honestly, this is TWD, there was no point in even naming him.

I didn't see anything to indicate Heath was Michonne's soulmate, either.  I saw two actors with good chemistry.   I don't think Jesse is Rick's soulmate, either, for what it's worth.  She's there and she's apparently his type. I don't see any real chemistry with Andrew Lincoln and Alexandra Breckinridge, either.  And I don't see any more chemistry between Danai and Andrew than I see between Danai and anyone.  But I don't care if any of them pair up or not; I just like to see actors in scenes together when they have something on-screen that makes them play especially well off each other.

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Not at all.  I loved to the heavens that they cast Aldis Hodge as her man in the flashback.  I would climb over a thousand Rick Grimeses to get to Aldis Hodge!  I don't have objections to Heath (other than the fact that I don't like him or his looks) based on his blackness.  Honestly, if Sonequa's husband doesn't die, I find HIM attractive too and if they can write him as a decent person, she can give that one a go as well. 

 

My opinion is, has been, and will always be not that it is racist to pair her with a black man, but the assumption that she CANNOT be paired with a white man and that if there are no viable black men present, that she must remain alone.  THAT is racist.  THAT'S my point.  I know you and others didn't see chemistry between her and Rick but I and others did in fact see a lot of chemistry (most likely coming from the actors themselves) in not just one scene but in multiple SEASONS.  It was enough of a thing that it has been addressed by showrunners, bloggers, writers, and many, many fans.  It's not something I pulled out of my ass.  I like them as a couple but I don't NEED them to be a couple.  What I DO need, however, is for the trope of the strong black woman as friend/foe/helper/servant/advisor/maid/deputy/sidekick/mother/mammy and never, ever the leading lady to die a quick and painful death.  And yes, I get offended by the assertion that any male negro within a hundred mile radius is necessarily compatible with Michonne because they exchange two sentences.  A couple of episodes ago everyone wanted her with Morgan because he was there and they made a joke together.  I hate Morgan, hes' not sane, and I would honestly stop watching the show if they put these two together.

 

As for Spencer, he's okay looking but I don't find him attractive at all. Honestly, IMO the most attractive men are Glenn and Aaron.  They both embody what I like in a man.  Strong in body and sprit, not at all cowardly, morally centered, and intellectually adept.  Rick definitely has serious sexy moments, usually when being violent, but sexy to watch and being a good option as a mate are not the same thing.  I think Michonne can handle a man like Rick.  She is drawn to alpha type personalities but she is strong enough to not let them steamroll over her.  Jessie's last round with an alpha male got her beat up and her kid crippled.  She can't actually "handle" Rick but here's hoping that his sanity holds long enough to keep her and the boys safe.  If not she can get her next boyfriend to kill him, like she did with her husband.  She has a type. And so does he.  Clearly she is a woman who can't survive even a week without a man in her life.  Just like Lori. 

Yeah, but who is saying that?  Nobody here, certainly. And just because they don't put Michonne with Rick doesn't mean that TPTB for the show are saying that, either.  Believe me, I know that there is a history with Black actors being the buddy or the friend or the sidekick, with darker skinned Black actors suffering that fate especially.  It's awful, painful and wrong, and still going on today in Hollywood far more than most people would like to admit.

 

I just don't see that as how things are with Michonne.  She's portrayed as one of the top characters on the show, one of the most awesome. She's written in a way that makes her look good, appear beautiful, strong and complicated in her emotions and actions.  She's got fighting skills that top pretty much everyone, she's compassionate, she's intelligent, she's got a quirky sense of humor.  She's got way more than one dimension, and Danai takes it to another level beyond the writing even with her talent.  I don't think that not being paired with the leading man means she's not or can't be a leading lady.   She is a leading lady.  (Lori was paired with Rick, but I don't think she was ever a leading lady.) That's why I just really don't think that there's an unspoken "we can't have her touch a white man" going on here. 

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I actually do see chemistry between Michonne and Rick.  But even if Michonne and Rick got on like a house on fire, I think from a writing standpoint it would be a mistake to put them in a relationship, because it paints them in a corner.  And it would probably ruin both characters.  Romance is not this show's strong suit.  What I would like to see is the dynamic if they had to make a life decision and Jessie wanted Rick to do one thing, and Michonne thought he should do another.  I feel like Rick would take Michonne's counsel over his girlfriend and that could be interesting fireworks.  If Scott Gimple really said they are the Pam and Jim of the show, then that means Jessie is Karen.  lol  I don't think any of that will happen though, because we have the life stories to tell of a bunch of stupid ASZers to tell.

 

Glenn and Aaron are attractive, for sure, but they aren't available men,  Aaron doubly so.  So out of the ASZ singles club, I don't see any other men Michonne would be compatible with.  I mean, I guess there's Tobin.  ;P  But I'm too baldist and dorkist for that.  I think what she has in common with Heath is integrity and smarts.  He's no dummy wandering in the woods, he's paying attention to what's really going on with Rick, and he was looking out for their people, the same way Michonne does with hers.  He was upfront with her about his feelings on it.  And they came to an understanding of that in the pet store.  And she backed it up with leaving Glenn and helping Heath get Scott back home.  They certainly don't have to be a couple, either, but he has potential, imo.   Compared to everyone else.  I totally agree with you about Morgan.  Same as when people suggested he could pair up with Carol.  Just no.  He's nutballs. 

Your first few sentences are exactly why I don't want to see romantic pairings between our main cast on this show.  The writers would handle it terribly and would totally ruin those characters.  They don't seem to realize that two people can be involved and not lose their identities but instead become intertwined as one merged personality, dependent on the other.  Glen and Maggie got together and just kind of merged into the background, never again to become the individuals I came to like.  Please show, don't do that again.

 

After some thought, I can sort of see why they didn't show Rick's escape from the RV.  They said many times in the other episodes that if anyone gets in trouble to just run and that's exactly what he did.  I just didn't like the way they sort of left the episode as a cliffhanger.  Or maybe that was just my perception.

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Huh, I would have never thought of the actor who plays Aaron as handsomer than the one who plays Spencer but I'm a guy so what would I know.

 

Yeah, guys don't get that swag gets you WAY further than just looks.  I personally don't think Spencer is that good looking, but lets just say that he is for discussion purposes.  Whatever he has in looks is downgraded by a million when you see what a weak, sniveling little douche he is.  Nope.  He can take several seats - over in the corner with punk ass Tyrese and crazy ass Morgan and PP.  I like a man who is a MAN.  Not hiding behind me for protection.  Just my personal taste, some women are okay with that.

 

I mean, I guess there's Tobin.  ;P  But I'm too baldist and dorkist for that.

 

LOL!  I'll take Tobin.  I don't mind bald and I'm a dork too. 

 

Yeah, but who is saying that?  Nobody here, certainly. And just because they don't put Michonne with Rick doesn't mean that TPTB for the show are saying that, either.  Believe me, I know that there is a history with Black actors being the buddy or the friend or the sidekick, with darker skinned Black actors suffering that fate especially.  It's awful, painful and wrong, and still going on today in Hollywood far more than most people would like to admit.

 

I just don't see that as how things are with Michonne.  She's portrayed as one of the top characters on the show, one of the most awesome. She's written in a way that makes her look good, appear beautiful, strong and complicated in her emotions and actions.  She's got fighting skills that top pretty much everyone, she's compassionate, she's intelligent, she's got a quirky sense of humor.  She's got way more than one dimension, and Danai takes it to another level beyond the writing even with her talent.  I don't think that not being paired with the leading man means she's not or can't be a leading lady.   She is a leading lady.  (Lori was paired with Rick, but I don't think she was ever a leading lady.) That's why I just really don't think that there's an unspoken "we can't have her touch a white man" going on here. 

 

The thing is that you clearly DON'T get it.  Not the trope, or what I am talking about, or who I am talking to. 

 

The trope is not the "awful, painful and wrong" treatment of black actors in general.  It is specifically that black WOMEN are not viewed in the same way as their white counterparts.  Whether or not they are portrayed as "awesome" isn't an exception to the trope, this IS the trope.  They are almost always awesome, many or most are very beautiful, and are exceptionally useful to the protagonist and pivotal to the narrative.  But they are not whole people.  Three dimensional, yes.  A person who has the same wants and needs as others.  No.  A beautiful and awesome white female (Maggie and Jessie for example) is EXPECTED to get the man at some point - they are expected to be sexual people and objects of desire.  Maggie had Glenn within one season.  Jessie had Rick within one episode.  As did Andrea with the Governor.  Lori showed up with Shane on her arm.  Michonne is on her third full season and the only relationship she's had has been playing mom to Carl.  THAT'S the trope.  So far it's holding true on this show.

 

What I'm talking about:  In three seasons, Michonne has had more one on one airtime with Rick than any other character.  She's not just one of his soldiers she is the one he leaves his children with.  The one he takes on runs.  The one who he didn't tell his takeover plan to because she is the one who could have talked him out of it.  So lets recast this.  Say that every scene that involved Michonne was replaced with Jessie.  The runs, the trust, the quiet moments of "I'm with you."  I believe that MOST people would view this man/woman interaction as either a relationship or the start of one.  But because of the climate we are currently in, people object to the idea of Rick with a woman who looks like Michonne.

 

Who I'm talking to:  the objectors.  The people who come up with all kinds of "reasons" this pairing couldn't possibly happen.  On this board, yes, I've read and been told: they're only friends, she's too good for him, she needs to get through her mourning period, she needs to focus on being a bad ass, this show is not about romance (unless you count all the romances we've had on the show), CDB is too traumatized to think of sex (until Rick meets Jess and then he deserves to get some), he's still mourning Lori (see previous "unless'), she's still mourning Mike (but note her chemistry with Heath/Morgan/some other random Negro that is encountered - I'm surprised nobody mentioned the black Wolf she could have had before Rick killed him).  The most honest I've seen is the recent "she's not girlfriend material".  Now I am not saying that every single poster with these opinions is a card carrying bigot, or that the opinion isn't truthfully held, but to me most of this reads like "code".  They have an issue with it, but won't let themselves admit to an even latent "-ism"  inside that makes this pairing distasteful to them because it is something rarely shown and that has not yet achieved social acceptance in the media.  I think progress happens when people open their minds and their eyes to things - even question their own opinions sometimes.  All those reasons stated above are why the trope will continue for a long time.  It will until somebody says "Even the badass, awesome black woman needs love too. Let's include that in our narrative"   So far the only television writer brave enough to show it is Shonda Rhimes with her Olivia Pope and her line of powerful white men who love her death.  Is this realistic? No.  But hey, it's one of the most popular shows on television so maybe the appetite for it isn't as scarce as showrunners may believe.

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For the record, I think Richonne would be hot.  I think it could be amazing. I've posted over the years that I would like that pairing. But now I think the show would fuck it all up.  I don't have any "isms" about it, latent or otherwise. And my objection to writing them in a corner would be the same thing I think about Daryl and Carol, or Daryl and Michonne, or Daryl and Beth (now that he won't take a shower, I can't see him with anyone, period), etc.  It's a weekly series, and it's pretty typical for core characters to have love interests from "the outside."  Pairing core characters with new characters, that eventually likely die, gives them ongoing story opportunities.  So far the new characters are mostly terrible, however, so it's not very satisfying.

 

I think in the long run, it would be better to build a longer tension, with Michonne and Rick each dallying with other folks, and each observing each other in those relationships, and eventually coming together realizing they really belong together.  The Pam & Jim reference by Gimple was telling.  They were best friends watchign each other with other people for years until they finally ended up together and all was right with the world. 

 

My main grievance about Michonne's character is that she's NEVER ON.  I'm so fucking sick and tired of them adding more and more new characters, who mostly suck, while Michonne is off to the side.  Rick himself was only in about half of season four.  This show has pissed me off numerous times, but instead of  making me angry, I'm really just starting to lose interest.  If they aren't going to give me the core cast, I'm probably not going to keep watching it.

 

I have a lot of thoughts swimming in my head about the evolution of Michonne but I have 20 things going on and can't articulate any of them.

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Yeah, guys don't get that swag gets you WAY further than just looks.  I personally don't think Spencer is that good looking, but lets just say that he is for discussion purposes.  Whatever he has in looks is downgraded by a million when you see what a weak, sniveling little douche he is.  Nope.  He can take several seats - over in the corner with punk ass Tyrese and crazy ass Morgan and PP.  I like a man who is a MAN.  Not hiding behind me for protection.  Just my personal taste, some women are okay with that.

 

 

LOL!  I'll take Tobin.  I don't mind bald and I'm a dork too. 

 

 

The thing is that you clearly DON'T get it.  Not the trope, or what I am talking about, or who I am talking to. 

 

The trope is not the "awful, painful and wrong" treatment of black actors in general.  It is specifically that black WOMEN are not viewed in the same way as their white counterparts.  Whether or not they are portrayed as "awesome" isn't an exception to the trope, this IS the trope.  They are almost always awesome, many or most are very beautiful, and are exceptionally useful to the protagonist and pivotal to the narrative.  But they are not whole people.  Three dimensional, yes.  A person who has the same wants and needs as others.  No.  A beautiful and awesome white female (Maggie and Jessie for example) is EXPECTED to get the man at some point - they are expected to be sexual people and objects of desire.  Maggie had Glenn within one season.  Jessie had Rick within one episode.  As did Andrea with the Governor.  Lori showed up with Shane on her arm.  Michonne is on her third full season and the only relationship she's had has been playing mom to Carl.  THAT'S the trope.  So far it's holding true on this show.

 

What I'm talking about:  In three seasons, Michonne has had more one on one airtime with Rick than any other character.  She's not just one of his soldiers she is the one he leaves his children with.  The one he takes on runs.  The one who he didn't tell his takeover plan to because she is the one who could have talked him out of it.  So lets recast this.  Say that every scene that involved Michonne was replaced with Jessie.  The runs, the trust, the quiet moments of "I'm with you."  I believe that MOST people would view this man/woman interaction as either a relationship or the start of one.  But because of the climate we are currently in, people object to the idea of Rick with a woman who looks like Michonne.

 

Who I'm talking to:  the objectors.  The people who come up with all kinds of "reasons" this pairing couldn't possibly happen.  On this board, yes, I've read and been told: they're only friends, she's too good for him, she needs to get through her mourning period, she needs to focus on being a bad ass, this show is not about romance (unless you count all the romances we've had on the show), CDB is too traumatized to think of sex (until Rick meets Jess and then he deserves to get some), he's still mourning Lori (see previous "unless'), she's still mourning Mike (but note her chemistry with Heath/Morgan/some other random Negro that is encountered - I'm surprised nobody mentioned the black Wolf she could have had before Rick killed him).  The most honest I've seen is the recent "she's not girlfriend material".  Now I am not saying that every single poster with these opinions is a card carrying bigot, or that the opinion isn't truthfully held, but to me most of this reads like "code".  They have an issue with it, but won't let themselves admit to an even latent "-ism"  inside that makes this pairing distasteful to them because it is something rarely shown and that has not yet achieved social acceptance in the media.  I think progress happens when people open their minds and their eyes to things - even question their own opinions sometimes.  All those reasons stated above are why the trope will continue for a long time.  It will until somebody says "Even the badass, awesome black woman needs love too. Let's include that in our narrative"   So far the only television writer brave enough to show it is Shonda Rhimes with her Olivia Pope and her line of powerful white men who love her death.  Is this realistic? No.  But hey, it's one of the most popular shows on television so maybe the appetite for it isn't as scarce as showrunners may believe.

Carol hasn't had a love interest. Yeah, she had a husband at the start, but so did Michonne.  All these arguments could be made for Carol too.  Sasha is a black woman that was shown as needing someone to love and she's a bad ass.  Just because Michonne isn't with Rick doesn't mean the show or anyone who just sees them as friends are racist.

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It is specifically that black WOMEN are not viewed in the same way as their white counterparts.

 

 

Does it matter at all that Michonne is viewed in exactly the same way as Carol, a white female?  Neither one is shown getting any interest or action.

 

A beautiful and awesome white female (Maggie and Jessie for example) is EXPECTED to get the man at some point - they are expected to be sexual people and objects of desire.  Maggie had Glenn within one season.  Jessie had Rick within one episode.  As did Andrea with the Governor.  Lori showed up with Shane on her arm.  Michonne is on her third full season and the only relationship she's had has been playing mom to Carl.  THAT'S the trope.

 

 

Again, Carol, a beautiful white woman, is on her 6th full season, and the only relationship she's had is playing mom to Judith, Lizzie and Mika.  That's another trope.

 

In three seasons, Michonne has had more one on one airtime with Rick than any other character.  She's not just one of his soldiers she is the one he leaves his children with.

 

 

Rick also leaves his kids with Carol, for what it's worth.  And Carol has more one on one airtime with Daryl than with any other character.  Do we see them hooking up?  Naw - Daryl's off playing with Aaron, this last season.

 

All those reasons stated above are why the trope will continue for a long time.  It will until somebody says "Even the badass, awesome black woman needs love too. Let's include that in our narrative"

 

 

How about someone says "Even the badass, awesome middle aged white woman needs love too.  Let's include that in our narrative" while we're at it?  And she needs someone MUCH more awesome that Axel or Tobin, thankyouverymuch.

 

I see friendship and respect between Rich and Michonne at this point.  Doesn't mean it can't change down the line, but then I'm not watching this show just to see who gets into who's pants.

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Carol hasn't had a love interest. Yeah, she had a husband at the start, but so did Michonne.  All these arguments could be made for Carol too.  Sasha is a black woman that was shown as needing someone to love and she's a bad ass.  Just because Michonne isn't with Rick doesn't mean the show or anyone who just sees them as friends are racist.

 

And I have made this argument on Carol's behalf, before and in this episode thread.  The rest I'll ignore because clearly my words are falling on deaf ears and since you're the authority on what is and isn't racism, there's really no point.

Does it matter at all that Michonne is viewed in exactly the same way as Carol, a white female?  Neither one is shown getting any interest or action.

 

 

Again, Carol, a beautiful white woman, is on her 6th full season, and the only relationship she's had is playing mom to Judith, Lizzie and Mika.  That's another trope.

 

 

Rick also leaves his kids with Carol, for what it's worth.  And Carol has more one on one airtime with Daryl than with any other character.  Do we see them hooking up?  Naw - Daryl's off playing with Aaron, this last season.

 

 

How about someone says "Even the badass, awesome middle aged white woman needs love too.  Let's include that in our narrative" while we're at it?  And she needs someone MUCH more awesome that Axel or Tobin, thankyouverymuch.

 

I see friendship and respect between Rich and Michonne at this point.  Doesn't mean it can't change down the line, but then I'm not watching this show just to see who gets into who's pants.

 

Ditto. 

 

This is arguing just to argue.  Peace out.

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Yeah, guys don't get that swag gets you WAY further than just looks.  I personally don't think Spencer is that good looking, but lets just say that he is for discussion purposes.  Whatever he has in looks is downgraded by a million when you see what a weak, sniveling little douche he is.  Nope.  He can take several seats - over in the corner with punk ass Tyrese and crazy ass Morgan and PP.  I like a man who is a MAN.  Not hiding behind me for protection.  Just my personal taste, some women are okay with that.

{snip}

 It will until somebody says "Even the badass, awesome black woman needs love too. Let's include that in our narrative"   So far the only television writer brave enough to show it is Shonda Rhimes with her Olivia Pope and her line of powerful white men who love her death.  Is this realistic? No.  But hey, it's one of the most popular shows on television so maybe the appetite for it isn't as scarce as showrunners may believe.

 

Unless you are talking about only current shows I disagree. I know it's almost groan-worthy sometimes to mention Firefly, but I did love the show. And my favorite pairing on that show was Zoe and Wash. Now in your opinion, this may not count, due to your above mentioned preference for only a "man who is a man" since Wash was not like Mal (and the Mal/Zoe dynamic was, in my opinion, similar to the Rick/Michonne dynamic*). However I found Wash's ability to let Zoe be the badass of their pairing and not be at all emasculated and instead turned on by the fact that (his words) his wife could totally kill him with her pinky, all kinds of sexy. It wasn't as if Wash was a wimp, not at all. As the pilot he had to have nerves of steel and get through all sorts of stressful situations, taking risks to save the ship. He just wasn't the physical badass that Mal and Zoe were. I loved Wash, and I loved Wash and Zoe together. It's one of my favorite pairings ever on television.

 

* And similar to this show, I understood why a Mal/Zoe romantic pairing would have had potential problems. They were comrades in arms, fighting together, and had an extremely close relationship, but a romantic relationship would have completely messed up their working relationship. Since Mal often had to send Zoe into dangerous situations, that would not have worked well if they had a romantic relationship. Wash was outside of that and willing to accept that Zoe sometimes had to follow Mal over his own wishes. I think it could be similar for Rick and Michonne. They are comfortable with their "working" relationship - where in this case their "work" is staying alive and keeping their group and each other safe and somewhat sane (Rick, especially, needs that). In my opinion, a romance between them could throw a wrench into that.

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. They [Rick and Michonne] are comfortable with their "working" relationship - where in this case their "work" is staying alive and keeping their group and each other safe and somewhat sane (Rick, especially, needs that). In my opinion, a romance between them could throw a wrench into that.

Didn't Danai Gurira describe Michonne as Rick's "work wife"? I totally got that and haven't given them another shipping thought. Sometimes the chemistry is there for another reason.

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Unless you are talking about only current shows I disagree. I know it's almost groan-worthy sometimes to mention Firefly, but I did love the show. And my favorite pairing on that show was Zoe and Wash. Now in your opinion, this may not count, due to your above mentioned preference for only a "man who is a man" since Wash was not like Mal (and the Mal/Zoe dynamic was, in my opinion, similar to the Rick/Michonne dynamic*). However I found Wash's ability to let Zoe be the badass of their pairing and not be at all emasculated and instead turned on by the fact that (his words) his wife could totally kill him with her pinky, all kinds of sexy. It wasn't as if Wash was a wimp, not at all. As the pilot he had to have nerves of steel and get through all sorts of stressful situations, taking risks to save the ship. He just wasn't the physical badass that Mal and Zoe were. I loved Wash, and I loved Wash and Zoe together. It's one of my favorite pairings ever on television.

 

* And similar to this show, I understood why a Mal/Zoe romantic pairing would have had potential problems. They were comrades in arms, fighting together, and had an extremely close relationship, but a romantic relationship would have completely messed up their working relationship. Since Mal often had to send Zoe into dangerous situations, that would not have worked well if they had a romantic relationship. Wash was outside of that and willing to accept that Zoe sometimes had to follow Mal over his own wishes. I think it could be similar for Rick and Michonne. They are comfortable with their "working" relationship - where in this case their "work" is staying alive and keeping their group and each other safe and somewhat sane (Rick, especially, needs that). In my opinion, a romance between them could throw a wrench into that.

It is never, not ever, groan worthy to bring up Firefly. I'm a Whedonite going all the way back. I loved Wash. He's not my type but I'm not exactly Zoe either! I can definitely see a Mal/Zoe dynamic with Rick/Michonne.

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At least I really believe I heard /read/saw reference to her saying this. I guess I could've imagined it. Sometimes I wonder that I spend a wee bit too much time on this show.

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At least I really believe I heard /read/saw reference to her saying this. I guess I could've imagined it. Sometimes I wonder that I spend a wee bit too much time on this show.

Google yields Gimple saying that Gurira, in conversation with him, referred to Michonne as Rick's "work wife."

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Google yields Gimple saying that Gurira, in conversation with him, referred to Michonne as Rick's "work wife."

 

Yup.  It's from a The Hollywood Reporter interview.

 

SNIP>>>

Gimple: At the end of last season, we didn't really get to see Abraham and Rosita as a couple as much. There was not room in the things that were happening to them to see them as a couple. But, there is a scene this season where we define them as a couple very quickly. As far as Rick and Michonne, their relationship will grow even more intimate and even more tight, but I don't know if there's really going to be room for romance with the things that are happening. They're very close. I was talking to Danai about it, and she referred to Michonne as being Rick's "work wife." So maybe they'll wind up like Pam and Jim [on The Office], but that took a long time.

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I'm not sure Gimple really knows what "work wife" means.  

Or he doesn't understand Pam & Jim.  

 

And I rubber stamp that Firefly is never, never wrong.  Ever.  

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This is your thread to discuss the various relationships, couples and friendships that have occured in the Walking Dead universe. Here, feel free to discuss and debate the relationships and connections the various characters have on the show, whether expected or otherwise.

 

Remember, this thread will contain spoilers about the show aired so far, so be warned. The discussion should be about the TV show only. If you want to discuss the various relationships that occured in the comics, go to the Comics Thread.

 

Be Very Warned - "shipping" can be a very emotional thing to many and cause people to become very passionate in their opinions. Therefore....

 

                            ------------>  Always Be Respectful and Be Civil. <-------------

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I can join that line. Call me cynical, but I've found their undying, Harlequin romance-type, true LOVE to be dreary and tedious, especially since I've never noted a single spark of any kind between them, not even in the  "I'll have sex with you" courting stage.

 

 

Seriously. I think if I were in a ZA, I'd be like the Aszhats, wiping my granite countertops, baking cookies, fluffing my pillows and pretending everything was just ducky.

 

So I'm going to violently disagree and then agree with your post.  <g>  I've always been rooting for Glenn and Maggie.

But as for the other?  I'm so afraid that would be me, too... and at the same time I'd be thinking that oh, sure, I could be badass if I needed to be.... 

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Is it wrong that I kind of wish Michonne would hook up with Eugene, just so I could listen to the internet explode?

 

Some men just want to watch the world burn.

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Well, I honestly don't think anyone else is a great fit for her, and the one I hear most about is Rick. She's only alive because Merle became a slightly better person long before Rick made his impotent half-assed attempt at unpressing the button. And, hell, at least when Merle was going to give her to the Gov, he was doing it as an "honest" bad guy who just wanted to use her to get close to somebody he really hated and wanted to kill. Rick seriously had to think about whether or not it was cool to let somebody torture her to death just for that one millionth of one per cent chance that Lucy wouldn't pull the football out of the way this time.

So, Rick not only has way too slow a learning curve to make him worthy of Michonne, but even after she saved Andrea from zombies, saved Judith from starvation, told him where Glenn and Maggie were imprisoned, and protected Coral while Rick talked to CrazyMorgan all day, she was still relatively expendable.

No way in hell, after that shit, is Rick allowed to get with Michonne.

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Who are the toughest women on the show? Do those women have a male love interest? If Michonne looked liked Kerry Washington she would have plenty of guys and she would not be cast as a tough person. The comics have different rules. If Carol looked like Sharon Stone same as above. These people were caste like they are to fit a certain mold. A mold the writers thought we wanted to see. Rosarita is also tough. Though she is younger and more attractive by conventional standards she still has no real relationship. She is being used by Abraham.

The softer women get the guys.

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I personally don't think Spencer is that good looking, but lets just say that he is for discussion purposes.  Whatever he has in looks is downgraded by a million when you see what a weak, sniveling little douche he is.  Nope.  He can take several seats - over in the corner with punk ass Tyrese and crazy ass Morgan and PP.  I like a man who is a MAN.

 

This x 1000. Spencer could be an Adonis but his behavior is a major turn off for me.

 

As for hook ups, I have never seen a modern show that seems to have such a terror of showing anything that hints of the dreaded s-e-x. Graphic violence and gore - bring it on!  Daryl and Carol having comfort sex or even cuddling that night in the shelter (which would have been the natural, human thing to do) when they were lying side by side on an actual beds?  Oh, god forbid! I'm not talking about Maggie/Glenn undying True Love, but it would be inhuman for no one in CDB, EVER, to have anything physical at all with people who have been living on top of them for years now. I mean, all that adrenaline needs some place to go.;)

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The show tried the adrenaline hookup once in season 2 with Shane and Andrea.  A whole lot of the viewing audience automatically labled Andrea a whore, just like they labled Lori a whore for having what I've always assumed was comfort sex with Shane after she realistically thought Rick was dead.  It was like after that the show decided to skip the subject altogether if it wasn't Maggie/Glenn True Love or a villain like The Guv having squicky sex in the back of a truck next to his partner's child and sister.  The lesson the showruners seem to have taken from that is that this mostly isn't an audience sophisticated enough to see random hookups without naming all the female cast sluts and whores.  

 

Luckily, no one seems to care enough about Abraham or Rosita as characters to have much opinion on that.

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A whole lot of the viewing audience automatically labled Andrea a whore, just like they labled Lori a whore

 

I know, and it's beyond outrageous! Both women, who were mature, consenting adults, had sex with TWO men each and that makes them sluts and whores? What century are we living in? Scary. I noticed no one labelled Shane - who didn't push Andrea away in the car even though he was supposedly in love with Lori -  as a "man whore" for *gasp* having sex with two women. Well, maybe he tried to escape her advances, but we don't know since that scene was cut so much that if you blink, you miss it.

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I know, and it's beyond outrageous! Both women, who were mature, consenting adults, had sex with TWO men each and that makes them sluts and whores? What century are we living in? Scary. I noticed no one labelled Shane - who didn't push Andrea away in the car even though he was supposedly in love with Lori - as a "man whore" for *gasp* having sex with two women. Well, maybe he tried to escape her advances, but we don't know since that scene was cut so much that if you blink, you miss it.

I didn't view Andrea or Lori negatively for their involvement with Shane. I was never sure if Lori cared for him or just used him to keep her family safe. Lori handled the situation poorly once Rick returned. This isn't a show about sex it is a show about death. There has been more murder (killing the living in malice) on the show than casual sex.

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Well I am perfectly fine without many hook ups, romances, whatever. I stopped watching Grey's Anatomy years ago because I was sick of the game of musical bed partners and was just thinking that it's taking up waaay to much time on the otherwise great How To Get Away With Murder.

I am not watching TWD for romance.

Edited by chlban
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