S06.E05: Now

[Blinkoshuman]

 

But we have Targets and WalMarts and Costcos on every street corner. And sporting goods stores and grocery stores. In one two-block zone, we have a Whole Foods, a Fresh Food, a Sprouts and a Trader Joes (all grocery stores for those who aren't familiar with the names).

Believe me, Alexandria has those things...and sooo much more. I grew up in NoVa.   In fact, one of my nit picky things about TWD lately is how unlike Alexandria the location is.  I realize they just need a suburby set and some woods, but Alexandria is nothing like that, and NOTHING like the mountainy road that curved and then opened up to Washington, D.C.  Geez.   And - there are several major highways running through there that could be easily accessible.  And tons of housing. And the nearest quarry is about 25 miles away in Manassas.  Gaaahh.  End of rant.

 

Peach said,

How will Deanna react?

How will Spencer react?

How will Deanna react to Spencer's reaction?

Maggie's upset.  She's on a mission.  What do Michonne, Rick, Rosita, and Carol think?  Who knows.  She's with Aaron.  (This is forgivable because Aaron is more CBD than ASZ, and he actually wants to DO something)

Oh, no, Rosita's crying?  She  must be reacting to Abe being missing, and...let's talk about how Spencer feels.  Rosita validates Spencer.  (Also, Carol let an incompetent, drunken coward take her watch duty)

 

 

Oh gosh, Peach. I just love your take on this. It's absolutely true.  We didn't hear much of anything from CDB except Rich yelling to be quiet.  It frustrated me a lot, and you found the words I was looking for.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Blinkoshuman

[ghoulina]

As for why poor Judith still doesn't walk, I've fanwanked giving her the slow-growth condition Carrie & Cory had in "Flowers in the Attic." I mean her dad was feeding her mushed acorns. While on the road, they barely had water, much less milk or baby formula.

 

I don't think Judith is one yet, is she? When she was born, it was probably just a few weeks until the end of season 3. Then we had a 6 month time jump. So she might have been 8 months at the end of season 4. There was no time jump between then and the start of season 5. Season 5, itself, took place over no more than a few weeks, as far as I can tell. Judith might have been 9 months by the end of that. And again, we've had no time jump. To be generous, she could be close to a year, but I don't think it's been that long. And all babies are different. My first started walking a weeks after turning one, but my other two were closer to 18 months. And yea, I do think her being carried around so much while on the road may have had something to do with it. But I'm still not even sure she's at the age yet where walking is expected. 

[CletusMusashi]

To be fair, Rick thought about turning her over, but decided against it. Merle took her because he knew Rick wouldn't. Later she tells Rick she knows he had to consider the Governor's offer. Rick says, "I'm sorry; I came real close." Then she thanks him for taking her in that day at the fence. 

He changed his mind far too late to change the outcome. Maybe he should have loaned his teleporter to Daryl.

[JBody]

*snip*

Take "True Blood." I tolerated that nonsense for years. Finally they made Sam Merlotte a homicidal maniac. I didn't even care for Sam as a character, but it finally hit me that the writers didn't give a sh*t about the characters, or story continuity, and they underestimated viewers intelligence/ability for remembering details. That rankled. Fonzie, get those bathing trunks on.

 

Kinda suspect the same -- TPTB here underestimates its viewing audience, and I think that sucks.  I've read they like to troll the audience, upset expectations, thinking it's subversive or some juvenile BS, but I tell you it's simply annoying douchebaggery.  Tell a good story, respect your audience, respect the characters....  it can't be that hard.

 

Re. the RV business we didn't see -- some seem ok with it.  Rick escapes, the end.  Yes, I too can imagine this quite well.  It's not a lack of imagination on my part that irks here.  It's simply as I said in my post pages back: AL sold that muthadickin' scene.  There was real fear there, vulnerability, panic, that I hadn't seen Rick expressing in quite some time (to my recollection).  I really thought a few beats should've been devoted to how he dealt with that.  Yes it may be a tad repetitive, but you think endless conversations between ASZhats about "This is how it is now...  You kill or you die...  Do what you need to survive...  blah blah blah" isn't?  And now I'M catching TWD disease and getting repetitive.  Egads. 

Edited November 10, 2015 by JBody

[rab01]

After 4 great episodes,* man did they throw up a stink bomb with this one. I think I know why the Show gave us an episode practically devoid of CDB people -- because if you want us to focus on ASZhats, then you can't place any shiny objects into our fields of vision.  Don't let any interesting characters into those scenes or else we won't remember the turds the Show wants us to focus on.  Hey, how about this idea Show?! Make the Alexandrians more interesting. Also, have them do stuff; they can still monologue while filling sandbags or killing walkers or something, anything, Hell, just have them walk purposefully towards a task - something.

 

Some minor points:

Deanna's little speech after confronting the walker would have actually worked if Michonne had saved her instead of Rick. As it was I just wanted to barf.

Deanna's hitting the fence was a call-back to Rick from last season shadowing the walker on the other side of the wall.

Deanna's son is a perfectly realized entitled little shit

and I will be happy if he gets his comic book fate though I will hate having to wait that long. 

that was actually effective character work by the Show.

Carol should have been in the crowd during Rick's speech.  What she was wearing and how she looked would tell us whether she had managed to slip back into her Clark Kent disguise.

Aaron's husband should also have been seen hugging him in that same scene.

Not trying to thin the Walker herd is actually classic CDB behavior and we all know it; we just don't want to admit it.

Morgan clearly had a ton of time to tell everyone about his pet wolf. Now, when something goes wrong, he has to own that as a decision.

And, as many have already said, not seeing Rick's escape from the RV was utter bullshit. Sure, they used that magician's escape bullshit with Glenn last season but here it also totally undercuts some fine acting by Andrew Lincoln.  He really sold the terror and hints of defeat a few weeks ago but his situation was really just no big deal?!?

 

 

*OK, the parable of Blessed are the Cheesemakers wasn't what I wanted last week but it was well done on its own terms.

 

ETA - JBody, get out of my head ;) Right after I hit reply, I see your post about AL's acting ...

Edited November 10, 2015 by rab01

[sadie]

Here's where this episode lost me. In AZ time just a day ago they were all so worried about a horde of walkers a FEW MILES away that they concocted a dangerous elaborate plan to lead them away. Fast forward one day, there is a huge growing horde PRESSING UP AGAINST THEIR PROTECTIVE WALL and everyone is just like "eh, let's just stand up here and watch them push our wall down because well there's a pantry to raid and random hook ups waiting to happen". It just makes no sense for the characters or the viewer.

Shouldn't Rick be figuring out a way to thin the horde, lead them away with noise and why hasn't Aaron shared the info about this secret tunnel that could get them strategically on the other side of the horde to lead them away. It's like the writers took a vacation and the janitor had to spot fill an episode until the people that actually know what should be going on come back to get back to the actual characters. No one with any smarts is thinking, none of the actual strong characters are talking and it was maddening. This was probably the most frustrating episode to watch ever!

[peach]

Carol should have been in the crowd during Rick's speech.  What she was wearing and how she looked would tell us whether she had managed to slip back into her Clark Kent disguise.

 

 

Now that's actually the ASZ reaction I wanted to see.  What do the ASZers think about Ninja Carol?

[lulee]

I thought it was fitting what a stereotypical politician Spencer seemed like -- the "we can't have everyone doing that... But exceptions can be made <wink, wink>" fit for someone who's grown up around politics and internalized a less-than-savory side of it.

[JBody]

After 4 great episodes,* man did they throw up a stink bomb with this one. I think I know why the Show gave us an episode practically devoid of CDB people -- because if you want us to focus on ASZhats, then you can't place any shiny objects into our fields of vision.  Don't let any interesting characters into those scenes or else we won't remember the turds the Show wants us to focus on.  Hey, how about this idea Show?! Make the Alexandrians more interesting. Also, have them do stuff; they can still monologue while filling sandbags or killing walkers or something, anything, Hell, just have them walk purposefully towards a task - something.

 

*snipper*

 

And, as many have already said, not seeing Rick's escape from the RV was utter bullshit. Sure, they used that magician's escape bullshit with Glenn last season but here it also totally undercuts some fine acting by Andrew Lincoln.  He really sold the terror and hints of defeat a few weeks ago but his situation was really just no big deal?!?

 

*Snip*

 

ETA - JBody, get out of my head ;) Right after I hit reply, I see your post about AL's acting ...

 

HA!  Sorry.  I mentioned that in my original post, then some peeps said they didn't mind the time jump, and I just had to get back in here to take one more whack at it.  Glad you see it my way (the right way *WINK*)

 

Also agree that the ASZhats coulda been doing something useful during the speechifying, other than the trademarked ASZhat  "standing around, arms crossed, with a confused and/or scared look" stance.

Here's where this episode lost me. In AZ time just a day ago they were all so worried about a horde of walkers a FEW MILES away that they concocted a dangerous elaborate plan to lead them away. Fast forward one day, there is a huge growing horde PRESSING UP AGAINST THEIR PROTECTIVE WALL and everyone is just like "eh, let's just stand up here and watch them push our wall down because well there's a pantry to raid and random hook ups waiting to happen". It just makes no sense for the characters or the viewer.

Shouldn't Rick be figuring out a way to thin the horde, lead them away with noise and why hasn't Aaron shared the info about this secret tunnel that could get them strategically on the other side of the horde to lead them away. It's like the writers took a vacation and the janitor had to spot fill an episode until the people that actually know what should be going on come back to get back to the actual characters. No one with any smarts is thinking, none of the actual strong characters are talking and it was maddening. This was probably the most frustrating episode to watch ever!

 

Maybe the real writers went out for deep-dish Chicago style pizza with Daryl's season 1 & 2 writer*?  And if so, could they please send that person back because season 3-now Daryl is simply NOT FUNNY AT ALL.

 

*credit to Nashville

[Captain Asshat]

She was lovely in younger days....

http://www.eaglestalent.com/uploaded_files/images/speakers/2949.jpg

The actress, Tovah Feldshuh, is still lovely. The appearance of the character, Deanna, is also fine or, at least, as expected considering the week she's had. She has seen her husband slaughtered in front of her face, her walls breached by a few walkers, her walls breached by a horde of marauders who just killed and maimed whoever they found, oh, and a massive herd of walkers is massing at her walls. Her appearance, either through the efforts of the makeup department or lack of makeup, is exactly what I'd expect from a woman whose Potemkin village is imploding under her leadership. It reflects a perfect combination of grief, fear, horror, and the realization that much (if not all) of what's happened is her own damned fault.

 

Compare production stills of the character from Season 5 when we met her, and Season 6 when she realizes this is her fault. Brilliant combo of makeup and the actress doing a helluva job acting without speaking.

[magemaud]

I just figured Carol wasn't in this episode because she's home babysitting Judith. We saw Carl wandering around when he fought with Ron, so Carol is the likely person to have "spelled him" after she returned to the house and changed back into her June Cleaver (no pun intended) persona. I don't think any of the ASZhats recognized her in her Ninja outfit during the wolf attack. But I'm also concerned that there might be another story taking place involving Carol, Judith and the Lone Wolf. 

[Pestilentia]

 

Believe me, Alexandria has those things...and sooo much more. I grew up in NoVa.   In fact, one of my nit picky things about TWD lately is how unlike Alexandria the location is.

I think it's been mentioned a few times in this thread already but this isn't "Alexandria, VA," this is a planned community called Alexandria.

 

 

Re. the RV business we didn't see -- some seem ok with us.  Rick escapes, the end.  Yes, I too can imagine this quite well.  It's not a lack of imagination on my part that irks here.  It's simply as I said in my post pages back: AL sold that muthadickin' scene.  There was real fear there, vulnerability, panic, that I hadn't seen Rick expressing in quite some time (to my recollection).  I really thought a few beats should've been devoted to how he dealt with that.

Agree 100%- the fear and panic on his face was some of the best work he has done on this show. It is disingenuous to not show how he got out of the mess that caused him that amount of concern.

And so much focus on the cut hand yet nary a mention of it. Was he even bandaged?

[Bryce Lynch]

I think it's been mentioned a few times in this thread already but this isn't "Alexandria, VA," this is a planned community called Alexandria.

Agree 100%- the fear and panic on his face was some of the best work he has done on this show. It is disingenuous to not show how he got out of the mess that caused him that amount of concern.

And so much focus on the cut hand yet nary a mention of it. Was he even bandaged?

According to what I have read, what is referred to as the Alexandria Safe Zone is indeed located within the limits of Alexandria, Virginia.

It would seem silly to build a community, in Virginia on the outskirts of DC, and name it Alexandria, when there is already an Alexandria, Virginia in the same area.

[whiskeyandfeet]

Wait a minute. Just hold on a goddamned second. The last we saw of Rick, he was trapped in an RV, surrounded by Walkers, and with more Walkers approaching. And he was panicking. Have we EVER seen him panic before. We have not. Not once in this entire series. The closest was when he was under the tank in the beginning, but even then, I didn't get a sense of panic. And here he is in the RV, not really in control of himself. It felt like a pivotal moment for his character. And might have deserved a little follow up. Instead, the next we see of him, he's running up on the gate, then lecturing the locals about keeping it together. Huh? What?

 

This drawing on of the Glenn situation feels a little cheap, but I get it. This Rick situation just feels lazy. Even if they circle back and show him getting out of the RV, the moment has passed, and the impact will be almost nothing.

 

This show used to be so tight and well put together.

[magemaud]

The uncertainly of Rick's RV escape was spoiled for me when my close captioning at the end of Morgan's episode showed it was Rick yelling "Open the gates!" At that point I thought, "Phew, I guess he got away somehow" and figured they would explain it during some kind of flashback at the beginning of this week's episode. But, no!

Edited November 10, 2015 by magemaud

[JBody]

Wait a minute. Just hold on a goddamned second. The last we saw of Rick, he was trapped in an RV, surrounded by Walkers, and with more Walkers approaching. And he was panicking. Have we EVER seen him panic before. We have not. Not once in this entire series. The closest was when he was under the tank in the beginning, but even then, I didn't get a sense of panic. And here he is in the RV, not really in control of himself. It felt like a pivotal moment for his character. And might have deserved a little follow up. Instead, the next we see of him, he's running up on the gate, then lecturing the locals about keeping it together. Huh? What?

 

This drawing on of the Glenn situation feels a little cheap, but I get it. This Rick situation just feels lazy. Even if they circle back and show him getting out of the RV, the moment has passed, and the impact will be almost nothing.

 

This show used to be so tight and well put together.

 

Yeah.  I just watched the pilot again for the umpteenth time (it's like a self-contained little movie, love it) and he was under the tank, understandably freaking out, and put his gun to his head and said "I'm sorry Lori...  Carl."  He stopped short when he saw the hatch and scooted on up into the tank.  I can't believe these dicks are bailing on this after AL's awesomeness in this scene but that's par for the course these days.

[Bad Example]

I can't believe that with all this speculation that Carol's probably watching Judith that it only occurs to me *now* to wonder just what kind of lullabies she is singing that child.  And the bedtime stories and nursery rhymes?  "This little piggie takes a headshot... this little piggie has a knife..."

[ghoulina]

Also agree that the ASZhats coulda been doing something useful during the speechifying, other than the trademarked ASZhat  "standing around, arms crossed, with a confused and/or scared look" stance.

 

Oh my gosh, AGREE. Olivia, in particular, has really mastered that look. 

 

 

 

And so much focus on the cut hand yet nary a mention of it. Was he even bandaged?

 

Wait, Rick cut his hand? I thought he was bit. 

 

 

 

Yeah.  I just watched the pilot again for the umpteenth time (it's like a self-contained little movie, love it)

 

It really is. I always get excited to marathon the show over the summer, because of the pilot. Then I usually hit a wall after awhile and this year I actually gave up. But I could just randomly watch the pilot whenever. 

 

 

 

I can't believe that with all this speculation that Carol's probably watching Judith that it only occurs to me *now* to wonder just what kind of lullabies she is singing that child.  And the bedtime stories and nursery rhymes?  "This little piggie takes a headshot... this little piggie has a knife..."

 

Damn straight. And once Judith can walk, she'll be kicking more ass than Ron or Spencer or FPP could ever even hope to.

Edited November 10, 2015 by ghoulina

[CletusMusashi]

I just figured Carol wasn't in this episode because she's home babysitting Judith. We saw Carl wandering around when he fought with Ron, so Carol is the likely person to have "spelled him" after she returned to the house and changed back into her June Cleaver (no pun intended) persona. I don't think any of the ASZhats recognized her in her Ninja outfit during the wolf attack. But I'm also concerned that there might be another story taking place involving Carol, Judith and the Lone Wolf. 

If Judith grows as rapidly as Carl, she might not have been recognizable. Were there any four year olds in the background? 

(Another tried and true soap opera trope!)

[lulee]

I can't believe that with all this speculation that Carol's probably watching Judith that it only occurs to me *now* to wonder just what kind of lullabies she is singing that child.  And the bedtime stories and nursery rhymes?  "This little piggie takes a headshot... this little piggie has a knife..."

Hush little Judith, don't you cry.

There might be walkers right nearby.

 

And if a walker come to raid.

Carol's going to hand you a grenade.

And if that grenade just won't blow.

Carol's going to give you a knife to throw.

 

And if that knife should miss its mark.

Carol's going to give you a stake of sharpened bark.

And if that stake should miss the head.

Carol's going to kill the walker herself, double dead.

[Ellaria]

This drawing on of the Glenn situation feels a little cheap, but I get it. This Rick situation just feels lazy. Even if they circle back and show him getting out of the RV, the moment has passed, and the impact will be almost nothing.

 

This show used to be so tight and well put together.

 

This is it exactly. Of course, it isn't really a surprise that Rick got out of the RV safely but seeing it would have added suspense to an episode that had none. I watched him running towards the gates and assumed that I missed part of the episode. So instead of a dramatic escape from the RV, we get romance with Jessie in the garage.

 

This show continues to make odd choices with its narrative. The season opened with three exciting episodes. Then, we got Morgan and the goat. Most recently, we got information that no one needed about a lot of Alexandrians. We are still dealing with "Is He Or Is He Not Dead" debate. Meanwhile, Daryl has received such little screen time that he is in danger of becoming an afterthought. We are on Episode 5; has he had 10 lines of dialogue this season?

Edited November 10, 2015 by Ellaria Sand

[CletusMusashi]

I can't believe that with all this speculation that Carol's probably watching Judith that it only occurs to me *now* to wonder just what kind of lullabies she is singing that child.  And the bedtime stories and nursery rhymes?  "This little piggie takes a headshot... this little piggie has a knife..."

I want that episode.

[GodsBeloved]

 "This little piggie takes a headshot... this little piggie has a knife..."

You'd better not sniffle or I'll take your life.

Edited November 10, 2015 by GodsBeloved

[Nashville]

Living in the suburbs (i.e., the woods where CDB always seems to find themselves) may have its merits. But I think knowing there's "stuff" literally right the corner is nice.(Yeah, sure, there are more Walkers, but there's got to be a way to cope with them. Somehow.)

Sure there is - find a tank to hide under, then throw a horse beside it. ;>

I don't think any of the ASZhats recognized her in her Ninja outfit during the wolf attack.

Er - you mean other than Olivia, the defender of the armory pantry closet?

ETA: Fixed that.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Nashville

[Timetoread]

If this were a Hallmark Channel movie or a romance novel it would stink. If TPTB focused on pairing up everyone I don't think this would be the same show. I don't think I'd enjoy it, either.

And I liked this episode. I'm not a Richonne shipper (or a TWD shipper of any kind though I did notice that Michone and Heath had good screen chemistry) so I was able to sit back and enjoy. I thought the pace was good--and welcome after last week which I did not enjoy,

I can also see the narrative benefit of Glenn's fate being so up in the air. As a fan I want to know NOW, but I can see the impact they're going for. If this was a movie, Glenn would show up at the end and it'd be a super twist in the storyline. But because it's a show that we fans pick through (not a bad thing in and of itself) it's harder for the show runners to pull it off without seeming like it's Shenanigans.

I missed the boning. I only saw a kiss.

 

He threw shade at her.  She told him to shut up.  Other than the fact that they are both black and wear braids, I didn't see chemistry or anything in common at all.

[Muffyn]

They could even build some long pokey things; stand up on the top of the wall and get them from up there. How about finding large rocks or heavy objects (I volunteer FPP) and dropping them on heads. Something. Anything. 

I think we all know FPP is so inept he could not even effectively fall on some walkers if thrown.  He would find some way to screw that up, take down a wall, and let the walker horde in the ASZ.  And of course, through the miracle of whiny incompetence, FPP would not have a scratch in him.   

[dustoffmom]

I am too lazy to cue the episode up just now so if my memory is off please forgive me.  But as I recall when the CDB folks first approached Alexandria, coming up the road to the gate.....weren't they aware of people in the houses just outside the gate who were watching them?  Wasn't there at least one female we saw peeping through the tattered curtains?   Have they ever gone back to that scene, explained who they were or did Deena say at one point she had 'outcast' them?  Regardless, if there are hundreds/thousands of walkers milling all over out there haven't any of them scented humans and gone after them?  

[Nashville]

He threw shade at her.  She told him to shut up.  Other than the fact that they are both black and wear braids, I didn't see chemistry or anything in common at all.

Two things in common:

• Both worry more about the safety of their people than of their own personal safety. Michonne's definition of "her people" just happens to be a little more expansive than Heath's at present - not surprising, considering Heath's universe for the past couple of weeks has been himself and 2-3 others in a van.
• Both have trust issues; also not surprising, considering the two just met - when, yesterday? This morning? And Heath overhearing Rick's little pep talk to Glenn and Michonne didn't do much to advance that level of trust.

Wasn't there at least one female we saw peeping through the tattered curtains?   Have they ever gone back to that scene, explained who they were

Enid, on one of her walkabouts.

[Yolapukka]

I didn't hate the episode, Overall, I enjoyed it but I thought it would have played better last week, since it essentially represents a break from the tension of the other zombie parade day episodes while building towards the next dire event. In fact my real problem with the episode is that it comes after the Morgan episode which also stepped away from the tension. One after the other, it's just annoying.

 

 

Spencer is very handsome - tall, dark and handsome.  Like Deanna, I was proud of him when he made the speech at the pantry.  Why did it have to be BS?  Why did he have to be a hypocrite?  I thought we'd have some character growth and since he expressed interest in Sasha at the party, possibly a future romance.  But instead we have further evidence that the ASZhats are nearly 100% useless.

 

I really don't know where they are going with this character, they certainly mean for him to have a place, but is it as a character who has a defined arc wherein he proves himself or just as a designated douche-bag who lets everybody down and dies an ignoble death? Because the selfishness shown in the pantry raid could go either way, it could either be a low point or a defining action..

 

I think they are also drawing a parallel between Deanna's ability to lead and her history as a parent, she (and Reg) raised two sons who are overconfident, underskilled, weak-minded in a crisis and tend to point fingers when they encounter a problem beyond their abilities, her community is filled with people who lack necessary survival and fighting skills, few take responsibility for the welfare of others and those that do are taken for granted. She covered for Spencer's pilfering by taking the food back (and nearly got killed by the one remaining walker) even though he's a grown-ass man because she didn't want him exposed. As leader of Alexandria, she was selectively blind to Pete's drinking and abuse of his family until he slashed Reg to death, prior to that she was unwilling to expose herself to the admission that she'd committed a grievous error in how Pete had been indulged.  She wanted to pretend that Pete was "better" but still covered for him when it was clear he was not, when that lead to the fight with Rick, she was ready to take Pete's side and expel Rick until Drunky Pete's violence had the cost of her husband's life.  Her willingness to avoid containing difficult issues has greater costs in the long run, costs which may not be predictable consequences, but are still part of a linear progression. 

 

Why did no-one question and change Reg's decision to put the wall supports on the outside? Perhaps at the time it seemed expedient but did they all defer to his position as an architect and Deanna's husband? One thing I appreciate about Rick, is despite all the Ricktatorship moments, he considers and accepts the counsel of others and is motivated by the concern of protecting his people, not protecting his place of precedence. It's not lost on me that part of Deanna's motivation in siding with Pete was due to the challenge Rick's mere existence represented to her position. 

 

One last nit-pick, maybe it is where I am from, but what Maggie and Aaron were walking through, that's a storm drain, not a sewer. Modern sewers do not just empty out into open spaces or waterways. We stopped doing that in the US sometime in the 1900s when we figured out that not processing our waste causes pandemics of sickness. Modern sewers are contained and generally do not have these huge openings (think of the smell!!!). The stuff is contained and carted away to treatment centres. Storm drain is what it is. Now, if this were a really old place, I could maybe buy that it was some old sewer. This is Alexandria, outside of DC. Not happening. Maybe they use the word sewer and storm-drain as the same? Where I am from, they are different.

 

 

 

 

A sewer is properly any underground or sunken conduit for carrying away water. There are different terms for different types of sewers, depending on locale, such as sanitary sewer, storm sewer, rain sewer, foul sewer, waste sewer, storm drain, surface water drain or (unfortunately) combined sewer.  I think maybe where you're from the generic term sewer is used for one specific type. Either way It's still a disgusting place to walk,  obviously the type used for runoff water is considerably less disgusting,  though I can imagine it would be pretty horrible to encounter the corpse of a small dead animal, never mind two mostly rotted zombies. I thought it was kind of convenient and by convenient I mean bullshit, that the exit was so close to the community that they were still within the area of the horde. Yet another reason to have a second fence-line, as well as being a conduit out for water, it could be a conduit in for invaders.

Edited November 11, 2015 by yuggapukka

[riverheightsnancy]

A sewer is properly is any underground or sunken conduit for carrying away water. There are different terms for different types of sewers, depending on locale, such as sanitary sewer, storm sewer, rain sewer, foul sewer, waste sewer, storm drain, surface water drain or (unfortunately) combined sewer.  I think maybe where you're from the generic term sewer is used for one specific type. Either way It's still a disgusting place to walk,  obviously the type used for runoff water is considerably less disgusting,  though I can imagine it would be pretty horrible to encounter the corpse of a small dead animal, never mind two mostly rotted zombies. I thought it was kind of convenient and by convenient I mean bullshit, that the exit was so close to the community that they were still within the area of the horde. Yet another reason to have a second fence-line, as well as being a conduit out for water, it could be a conduit in for invaders.

That was me. All I could think when they were in the storm sewer was that scene from Shawshank Redemption. No, just no. Storm drain sounds so much more hygienic! ;)

Edited November 10, 2015 by riverheightsnancy

[that one guy]

At the core of any story are its characters. They are the lifeblood of the story. It's pretty clear in comedy that the true bellyache laughs come from the characters. LOLs from manufactured hi-jinx? Or LOLs from Larry David's neuroses? (I know it's subjective but I've taken enough writing classes to feel validated in asserting it as fact.)

Anyway, these writers need to get it together. They created *these* characters and there is a story to be told about how *these* characters navigate the ZA. Having scenes in mind that you want to have happen and then bending and folding and shoehorning the characters to accommodate those scenes - losing sight of the established characterizations- does not work.

Take "True Blood." I tolerated that nonsense for years. Finally they made Sam Merlotte a homicidal maniac. I didn't even care for Sam as a character, but it finally hit me that the writers didn't give a sh*t about the characters, or story continuity, and they underestimated viewers intelligence/ability for remembering details. That rankled. Fonzie, get those bathing trunks on.

I stopped watching True Blood pretty early - I had read the source material beforehand, and Book Bill was just not the type of guy who

murdered sex workers, even while trying to infiltrate an enemy camp.

That incident was so far out of character that I just couldn't take it anymore. I haven't read TWD, and I hear it's deviated much further from the source material. But even minor characters should stay consistent in motivation and action. I like Aaron a lot, but the rescue team should have been Maggie, Tara and Rosita - the three characters with the closest ties to the people who are missing. Rosita's standing on the Wall crying over Abraham, why not put her on the away team too? They might have been able to get past the walkers at the end of the tunnel if they had more people with, you know, guns and stuff.

 

Wow, I've long been lumping TWD and Game of Thrones together as "Sunday Night Beheadings," but now that there's a Wall separating civilization from an army of the undead on both shows, why don't they just bring Rose Leslie and Ciaran Hands onto the TWD as the leaders of the Wolves? I'll watch Rose Leslie in anything, as I recently proved by paying actual cash money to see "The Last Witch Hunter." Plus, you know, she could just walk around saying "You know nothing, Rick Grimes," and be right all the time.

[morgankobi]

That was me. All I could think when they were in the storm sewer was that scene from Shawshank Redemption. No, just no. Storm drain sounds so much more hygienic! ;)

Lucky you. All I could think of was Pennywise with a balloon...

[Pestilentia]

According to what I have read, what is referred to as the Alexandria Safe Zone is indeed located within the limits of Alexandria, Virginia

 

 

You missed my point.  Rather you are re-articulating my point, not realizing that we are in agreement.

 

Boy, I've been firing on all cylinders today.

Sorry folks.

[magemaud]

 

 

I don't think any of the ASZhats recognized her in her Ninja outfit during the wolf attack.

 

 

 

Er - you mean other than Olivia, the defender of the armory pantry closet?

oops, you're right! I forgot about Carol's quick "Here's how to shoot a gun" tutorial!  Maybe Olivia is still traumatized about the experience, or hasn't had a chance to tell anyone about what happened. Or maybe she's figured out it's in her own best interests to keep quiet. As far as Carol's teaching someone survival skills YET AGAIN, didn't she come under criticism at the prison for teaching the kids how to defend themselves instead of the readin' writin' & 'rithmetic that everyone thought the kids were learning? 

 

Also, I don't think we've seen the last of that storm drain/sewer/whatever...

[ParadoxLost]

That was me. All I could think when they were in the storm sewer was that scene from Shawshank Redemption. No, just no. Storm drain sounds so much more hygienic! ;)

 

I was only thinking about alcohol because the only sewer I've ever been in was converted into a bar.

[Macbeth]

The only lullabye Rick should be worrying about is the ones that goes:

 

"Little Rick, LIttle Rick, let us come in."

"Not by the bush on my chinny chin chin."

"Then we'll moan, and we'll groan, and we'll push your walls in."

 

Rick doesn't need a Plan B.  They can get out by the sewer/drain.  Not as many zombies on the other side.

 

Rick and Jessie's relationship reminds me of a really crazy character, Trashcan Man, in Stephen King's "The Stand."  One of the thoughts that kept rolling around in his head is that his Stepfather, a cop, shot and killed his father.  Trashcan Man ended up nuking Las Vegas.  I don't think Ron will reach that magnitude of destruction, but only for want of materials and know how.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Macbeth

[riverheightsnancy]

I was only thinking about alcohol because the only sewer I've ever been in was converted into a bar.

Cool. Sounds interesting.

[Jack Kerouac]

So clearly the only real emotional cost for all the bad decisions we've seen, starting with Rick unleashing the walker parade, is Glenn.

 

Rick didn't unleash the walker parade. It happened by itself while they were planning on doing something about it the next day.

[wrlord]

I am so sick of Deanna's anguished face and her twin sweater sets. 

 

You might not believe this, but she's built like the friggin she-Hulk under those sweaters.

[dannymoon]

Rick escaping the RV: I think back to S3, when there's an episode ending with Rick, Daryl and Merle outside the prison gates and the Governor had just released walkers on the inner yard. It wasn’t a stretch to assume they made their way inside the prison unscathed, but  I felt like I had missed a scene when the next episode started. This seemed like even more of a cheat though, especially combined with his terrified look of finding the baby food. And then the Wolves stuff was all kind of glossed over.

 

I don’t mind Denise, not even Jesse honestly, but unless they are about to become cast regulars, it’s too much focus on them. I mean Spencer?! His first scene was fine, then he dropped down to completely uninteresting the minute he became another porch dick. And both my husband and I think it’s his blood dripping down the gate.

 

Still love my TWD, but this ep felt disjointed and underwhelming, like so many mentioned. Some regulars are either MIA or barely seen. I too miss the Carl/Michonne relationship from S4.

Edited November 11, 2015 by dannymoon

[Raven1707]

Yup, Aaron has a boyfriend, Eric, and he's still alive. Though I wish I knew the status of his ankle injury, so I'll have an idea of his survival prospects when those zombies break into Alexandria.

 

Eric was wearing a boot (essentially a soft walking cast) in one of the scenes in the clinic. I'm planning a 5-episode mini-marathon tomorrow, so I'll try to remember to look and see whether it was the scene with Holly -- where he was donating blood via a direct transfusion -- or in this episode while they were initially treating Scott (played by Kenric Green).

 

I honestly think the last couple episodes will come off much better when one can watch them back to back. I'm enjoying the storylines so far, but the pacing is simultaneously too fast and too slow. My opinion of 4B vastly improved when I Netflixed it all at once, hopefully the last two episodes will be the same way.

 

Marathons are definitely the way to go, although there are some shows that nothing can improve.

 

 

 

Ha! There is that :) IIRC when Jessie went all scissors-happy on the wolfette, she started out hacking away at her torso, then zeroed in on her head. ZA aside, I think most of us have an innate prohibition against mutilating a face. I have a number of friends and colleagues who've had to take Gross Anatomy, and each has said that dealing with the cadaver's face was the squickiest part. But yeah - go for the head next time, Deanna.

 

Gross Anatomy is aptly named for sure.

 

 

Speaking of hook-ups, I always thought that male prisoner that thought Carol was a lesbian was perfect for her (was his name Alex???).

 

Axel.

 

Ratings for the first 5 episodes:

 

10-11-15 “First Time Again” 14.633 million viewers

10-18-15 “JSS” 12.183 million viewers

10-25-15 “Thank You” 13.143 million viewers

11-01-15 “Here’s Not Here” 13.339 million viewers

11-08-15 “Now” 12.440 million viewers

[morgankobi]

Morgan may not like killing people, but he's killing off some ratings.

[AwesomO4000]

Eric was wearing a boot (essentially a soft walking cast) in one of the scenes in the clinic. I'm planning a 5-episode mini-marathon tomorrow, so I'll try to remember to look and see whether it was the scene with Holly -- where he was donating blood via a direct transfusion -- or in this episode while they were initially treating Scott (played by Kenric Green).

 

Thank you! I wouldn't have caught that. Hopefully he'll be able to at least walk fast enough to stay ahead of the walkers and/or he'll be able to maneuver through the storm sewers with it on if the time comes. I'm sure Aaron will get him to that escape route.

Edited November 11, 2015 by AwesomO4000

[peach]

If Judith grows as rapidly as Carl, she might not have been recognizable. Were there any four year olds in the background? 

(Another tried and true soap opera trope!)

 

Here she is.

 

[AngelaHunter]

Speeches, swelling, maudlin music instructing us on how we should feel during any given scene, long and searching gazes... I'm so-so on this ep.

 

Totally agree that last week's snooze-fest just killed all the tension, anticipation and momentum.

[SometimesBites]

...or shoot Carl for "stealing" his "girlfriend"...

My exact thought. Rick teaches Ron to shoot, and then...oopsie! Someone break out the

eyepatches.

[peach]

. I agree with whoever said up-thread that Carol is really suffering right now. She has had a lot of tragedies and it pisses me off that Rick just dumps Judith with her all the time. Just because she has ovaries, does not mean that this is her responsibility. She has had several traumas regarding children (one her very own), 2 very recent ones, this must be painful for her to care for a child and love them and then have them taken away, and Rick is too busy getting some to see past his own needs and to SEE that Carol is suffering. 

 

Hey, now, since they got in ASZ, Carol has been telling RICK what to do.  She's been cold and calculating and ready.  We haven't seen her show any suffering since the Wolf rampage.  And we haven't seen her at ALL since.

 

Also, I don't know why people think it's some imposition or diss to watch L'il Asskicker.  They all love her.  Carol and Tyrese were caring for her on their own for a while.  I'd think that when the other tasks involve getting sprayed in walker goo or burying bodies, spending time with one of the last living children on earth would be pleasant.  Also, in this case, it's part of Carol's den mother cover story.  At the prison she was on the ruling council.  She's never been just a babysitter.

 

Somewhere someone posted that Michonne was just stuck "babysitting" when that task involves defending her from man and zombie.  It takes way more than ovaries.  When Rick asked Michonne to stay with Judith and Carl, it was because might never come back.

[peach]

When Michonne and Carol are your babysitters.

[Iguessnot]

I was surprised how many bad choices were made in this episode. Did the show's writers and director think we would not see a problem with Rick yelling at the top of his lungs that they should be quiet? And if it's important to be quiet and even turn off the lights at night, why are the sentries standing up like bait over the walkers?

 

Maggie gets all big and bad and attempts to save Glenn. Yet the first little sewer that gets in her face, she RECOILS from like an ASZhat and can't handle herself.

 

Aaron decides to get all big and bad and go after Glenn anyway. We clearly see the horde not far away but Aaron keeps trying to get out with no strategy for getting past that horde. Maggie tries to stop him. Instead of smacking him upside the head to get his attention, she screams. Actually that works out well for Aaron because there were walkers right outside the sewer drain gate that he would have run right into with his lack foresight.

 

However I loved Maggie's speech. Although Jessie annoyed me when she was introduced to the show, she and Rick's kiss didn't really bother me. But seeing how out in the open they were was distasteful.

[SometimesBites]

You might not believe this, but she's built like the friggin she-Hulk under those sweaters.

She really is! Such a small woman, but badass Tina Turner arms. I think she looks exactly like any 62-year-old who has already put in some interesting time on the planet, and given the back of her hand to chasing the visage of a younger person. Like Vanessa Redgrave, Genevieve Bujold, Charlotte Rampling, and Judi Dench--to name just four of many--Tovah Feldshuh fully inhabits her older self in a way that embraces reality. We don't expect a 40-year-old to look like a 10-year-old; why on earth do we expect a 60-year-old to resemble a 30-year-old?

I think given some time to shake off her current disorientation, Carol and Deanna could make a nifty matriarchal cohort. :)