S01.E07: June 13th - Part One

[Stardancer Supreme]

 

Part 1 of 2. Noah seeks answers, teaming up with Hiro Nakamura to return to the tragic day that set everything in motion. Meanwhile, Mohinder Suresh receives a dire message about Erica's true motives; a calculated move is made against Hiro; Luke and Joanne seek a cure for their son.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Stardancer Supreme

[dgpolo]

I think a lot of things got tied up finally. I almost stopped watching last week but now I'll think I'll make it through the 13 episodes.

Now we know why the Penny guy was protecting Tommy/Nathan.

Did Phoebe's powers affect the clone guy?

[Ripley68]

I was a little behind on figuring out that the 2 teens were Claires.  I still don't think Claire is dead.  Don't think Zachary's kid is dead

[bagert]

Well, I was half-right: Tommy is a Petrelli, I just had the wrong one :)

[TVSpectator]

Overall, this episode did answer questions (and it did it by not raising new ones), and I didn't see the whole, Claire's twins separated at birth to protect them (and hey, did anyone get a weird Revenge of the Sith vibe while watching Hiro and HRG deciding to separate the twins, at birth? Like, Luke and Leia?

 

Okay for the rest of the episode, I was upset that NBC couldn't get Hayden Panettiere, to do a guest star role (is she that expensive now)? They didn't even have HRG take that stupid cloth off of the supposed Claire's head. 

 

Also, I do wonder if Luke's kid is really dead and I thought it was nice just seeing them as a normal couple and not a couple on a murdering spree. 

 

Also, Hiro better have a very good reason for allowing the bombing to happen (and if he was worried about how many bombs there are, remember he can literally stop time and fumble around, freely). There better be something like preventing a mass genocide than allowing several bombs to go off. 

[Stardancer Supreme]

I liked this ep!  It answered many questions and only left me with a few.  

 

So... A nearly indestructible evo is taken out by the stress of childbirth.  What?  I know they couldn't get Hayden Panettiere to make a few cameos, but really?  It would have felt better for Claire to hand her children off to Angela and disappear off the face of the earth.  Erica didn't have Molly yet, so that could have happened.  I had to chuckle at Angela and Noah look at these babies and wonder which twin would save the world.  "I know Claire's child will save us!" "Which one?" "I dunno."   It also makes sense that Erica would be looking for one baby, not two teenagers sent back from the future.  One question: Who was Malina and Nathan/Tommy's father?

 

The bombs were Harris clones.  Poor, Pretty Mohinder bought it since he was right next to one.  Hiro and his butterflies.  There could have been a way to stop the clones unless there was way too many of them... but Hiro could freeze time!  I wonder why he didn't tell Noah how he ended up in Evernow? 

 

I didn't miss Carlos.

 

I see that Noah is just going to ignore Hiro and step on a yooge butterfly named Erica... How apropos for his past self to try to stop him from making an even bigger mistake.

 

 

Did Phoebe's powers affect the clone guy?

 

Only if he was trying to grow new clones in the midst of Phoebe's shadow.  I'm sure Harris Prime was safe somewhere else at the time of the bombing.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Stardancer Supreme

[ottoDbusdriver]

Overall, this episode did answer questions (and it did it by not raising new ones), and I didn't see the whole, Claire's twins separated at birth to protect them (and hey, did anyone get a weird Revenge of the Sith vibe while watching Hiro and HRG deciding to separate the twins, at birth? Like, Luke and Leia?

 

Okay for the rest of the episode, I was upset that NBC couldn't get Hayden Panettiere, to do a guest star role (is she that expensive now)? They didn't even have HRG take that stupid cloth off of the supposed Claire's head. 

 

Also, I do wonder if Luke's kid is really dead and I thought it was nice just seeing them as a normal couple and not a couple on a murdering spree. 

 

Also, Hiro better have a very good reason for allowing the bombing to happen (and if he was worried about how many bombs there are, remember he can literally stop time and fumble around, freely). There better be something like preventing a mass genocide than allowing several bombs to go off. 

 

I really got a Luke and Leia vibe from the baby situation. And the big butterfly is that Nathan/Tommy is now fully aware of his powers on the day of the Odessa explosion and has been trained by "his father" (whoever his stepfather turned out to be) and this mother is the nurse from the hospital -- and I guess that is probably the last we will see of Emily.

 

Did HRG even check to make sure that was Claire ?  There may have been other dead blonde women in the morgue, but he didn't even bother to check.  Still no sign of Lyle or Mr. Muggles (or any sign that HRG even remembers that Lyle exists).

 

I'm still curious how the Harris clones are able to regrow objects -- like clothing, bombs or guns.

 

In the first episode, the shadow covering the Evo festival had a clearly defined line but now it has a hazy edge to it.  And what was the range on Phoebe's evo ability suppressing power -- maybe that's why Claire died during childbirth ?

[bagert]

Claire died in Season 1 and eventually woke up in the morgue.  There's no reason to believe that Claire can't reappear if Hayden Panetierre ever wants to guest star, assuming there is ever another miniseries.  (I'm still hopeful of there being a surprise "post-credits scene" with Hayden at the end of episode 13.)

Edited October 30, 2015 by bagert

[Free]

Claire died in Season 1 and eventually woke up in the morgue.  There's no reason to believe that Claire can't reappear if Hayden Panetierre ever wants to guest star, assuming there is ever another miniseries.  (I'm still hopeful of there being a surprise "post-credits scene" with Hayden at the end of episode 13.)

 

Agreed, she's 'dead' because Hayden didn't return.

 

I didn't miss Carlos.

 

It should've just started here instead of taking up half the season on disjointed storylines.

[Callaphera]

Yes, of course, Heroes writers. The Cheerleader, Indestructible Girl with always perfect perky blonde hair, who has survived numerous falls off buildings, Sylar scalping her, a walking nuclear bomb melting her skin off, can be felled by a heart attack. That would only make sense if she had the heart attack when Phoebe was doing her shadow routine, since it was turning off everyone else's powers. I've been a defender of this show and all seasons of the original, even the crappy Maya ones, but that's just weak. They would have (will, if it happens next week) gotten points if HRG goes back to say goodbye again and Claire's no longer laid out on the autopsy table. I know they couldn't get the actress back but man. They could've put a little thought into it. And of course Claire has twins, a boy and a girl. Who would of course turn out to be the ones to save the world. Because not only is she part Petrelli, she's Claire. Huh. Apparently, I have Feelings about Claire.

 

I'm guessing Lyle hates his whole family (except maybe Mr. Muggles) and wasn't going to show up for Claire's speech/wave to the crowd/whatever the hell she was doing at the event while full term and about to give birth. I don't blame him.

 

I can't believe I didn't think that the Harris clones would be the one to blow up the building. I did get a little snort out of Hiro's "Don't bring a fist to a sword fight" bit. And after Erica's "I'll tell her you've been... detained," I half expected Horatio Caine to show up with the Sunglasses of Justice and Roger Daltry's scream. 

 

I loved having Angela Petrelli back. I always loved her. And Mohinder is still as dim as ever. At least that's continuity from the old series. 

Edited October 30, 2015 by Callaphera

[AndreaK1041]

For the love, Angela, support those babies' heads! They were all floppity. Of course they were TV several week old baby "newborns", but still!

Are we suppose to like that guy's sister with the black smoke? Or think she was a victim? Maybe she was good once before she was kidnapped, but she seems pretty evil now.

[HighQueenEB]

Heroes Reborn is so much better when the Original Recipe Heroes are the featured players.  I gave up mid-season 4 of the original run, IIRC.  Perhaps it was just the familiarity of the original characters like Mohinder, Angela, and Hiro, but they were far more compelling than most of the new characters to whom we've been introduced. 

And, if anyone watching this believes that Claire is really dead, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona that I'd like to sell you.  I realize that Hayden  wasn't available for filming, as far as we're aware, but I'd like to believe that NBC could have made a deal with ABC if all they needed her for was a short scene on a gurney in the morgue to prove to the viewers that the Cheerleader was really good and dead.  The way they presented it leaves all of us wondering whether or not Claire is really dead, leaves the door open for a possible return by Hayden should the perfect storm of Nashville being cancelled/Heroes Reborn getting renewed occur (assuming she's interested and doesn't want to take some time off to completely heal from her PPD).

[Lynnann]

I realize that Hayden wasn't available for filming, as far as we're aware, but I'd like to believe that NBC could have made a deal with ABC if all they needed her for was a short scene on a gurney in the morgue to prove to the viewers that the Cheerleader was really good and dead. The way they presented it leaves all of us wondering whether or not Claire is really dead, leaves the door open for a possible return by Hayden should the perfect storm of Nashville being cancelled/Heroes Reborn getting renewed occur (assuming she's interested and doesn't want to take some time off to completely heal from her PPD).

There is also CGI. They've done it for movies where an actor has died before finishing the film. They still might need to get permission, though.

[Stardancer Supreme]

Or use the scenes from Heroes. Yes, they would still have to cut HP a check, but it would be worth it to make the story better.

 

Okay, I'll grudgingly accept that maybe Phoebe's shadow did Claire in.  When Noah and Hiro looked out of the hospital window, they could see the bombing.  That's pretty evil of Erica to ensure that the Evos couldn't save themselves or others since their powers were cancelled out.   Another question: Hiro sent the children into the future. How did they get back to present time aged 15 years?  Remember that Odessa Hiro was sucked into Evernow.  Maybe there is another timewalker?

[datazoid1701]

Another question: Hiro sent the children into the future. How did they get back to present time aged 15 years?  Remember that Odessa Hiro was sucked into Evernow.  Maybe there is another timewalker?

I think he sent them to the past? He had a line like "Time to party like it's 1999", which would have given them 15 years to age to now (or what I assume is "now" in show-time).

[kirkola]

Or use the scenes from Heroes. Yes, they would still have to cut HP a check, but it would be worth it to make the story better.

 

Okay, I'll grudgingly accept that maybe Phoebe's shadow did Claire in.  When Noah and Hiro looked out of the hospital window, they could see the bombing.  That's pretty evil of Erica to ensure that the Evos couldn't save themselves or others since their powers were cancelled out.   Another question: Hiro sent the children into the future. How did they get back to present time aged 15 years?  Remember that Odessa Hiro was sucked into Evernow.  Maybe there is another timewalker?

 

It's the time paradox that is explained by, of all things, Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure.  Bill & Ted, if you recall, needed to break into the police station, so they found the key under the mat.  Then later, after they did what they needed to do, they had to remember to go back in time, steal the key and store it under the mat.  Or if you're into Doctor Who, you can think of it as fixed points in time that cannot be altered.

 

In other words, no matter what timeline they are in, Hiro gets free, grabs the babies and takes them back in time.  It's a fixed point that cannot be altered, or Hiro has just always gone back in time. 

 

No "butterflies".

[Free]

Yes, of course, Heroes writers. The Cheerleader, Indestructible Girl with always perfect perky blonde hair, who has survived numerous falls off buildings, Sylar scalping her, a walking nuclear bomb melting her skin off, can be felled by a heart attack. That would only make sense if she had the heart attack when Phoebe was doing her shadow routine, since it was turning off everyone else's powers. I've been a defender of this show and all seasons of the original, even the crappy Maya ones, but that's just weak. They would have (will, if it happens next week) gotten points if HRG goes back to say goodbye again and Claire's no longer laid out on the autopsy table. I know they couldn't get the actress back but man. They could've put a little thought into it. And of course Claire has twins, a boy and a girl. Who would of course turn out to be the ones to save the world. Because not only is she part Petrelli, she's Claire. Huh. Apparently, I have Feelings about Claire.

 

Not to mention it's a betrayal of the original 'save the cheerleader, save the world' mantra.

 

Heroes Reborn is so much better when the Original Recipe Heroes are the featured players.  I gave up mid-season 4 of the original run, IIRC.  Perhaps it was just the familiarity of the original characters like Mohinder, Angela, and Hiro, but they were far more compelling than most of the new characters to whom we've been introduced.

 

As it should've been instead of wasting half a season bouncing off mediocre plots like video game girl, Luke moping around, or Carlos playing vigilante.

 

The previous episodes meandered and lost focus on the main plot and it should've started here.

[toomuchtv47]

As soon as I saw that Hiro couldn't use his abilities to send him and Noah back to their timeline, I yelled at the television "Grab Claire and get out of there, she'll probably wake up on the drive out of town!!"  Then, with Harris, does knocking out Prime kill the rest of them?  If so, that would have taken care of the bombs.  It's just so frustrating when it's obvious the viewers are getting information (like the black cloud stopping powers before the explosion) but none of the characters really talk about it or tell someone.  

 

Although, I am interested in seeing the change in Luke and his wife.  Well, I can see her just hating everyone but Luke was helping people while looking for his son.  He seemed caring and compassionate (and this could have been a perfect moment for freeze guy to say something like "I tried, I couldn't use my power") while Luke was lifting the metal off him.  

 

This show does something bad to me.

[cambridgeguy]

 

I think he sent them to the past? He had a line like "Time to party like it's 1999", which would have given them 15 years to age to now (or what I assume is "now" in show-time).

If he sent them to the future it (presumably) would have been the scorched earth version so he had to send them to the past.  The question is why only 15 years.  I'd want my world saving heroes to be well trained and at their peaks.  That's certainly not the case with a couple of teenagers.

[Aliconehead]

Is any one thinking Hiro will be the father? There was a little eye flirting with the nurse when she was helping him feed the baby.

[Whimsy]

My Tivo cut off right after past!HRG sees present!HRG in the hospital and gets up to follow him(self).  What happened at the end?

[Jenniferbug]

Yes, of course, Heroes writers. The Cheerleader, Indestructible Girl with always perfect perky blonde hair, who has survived numerous falls off buildings, Sylar scalping her, a walking nuclear bomb melting her skin off, can be felled by a heart attack. That would only make sense if she had the heart attack when Phoebe was doing her shadow routine, since it was turning off everyone else's powers. I've been a defender of this show and all seasons of the original, even the crappy Maya ones, but that's just weak. They would have (will, if it happens next week) gotten points if HRG goes back to say goodbye again and Claire's no longer laid out on the autopsy table. I know they couldn't get the actress back but man. They could've put a little thought into it. And of course Claire has twins, a boy and a girl. Who would of course turn out to be the ones to save the world. Because not only is she part Petrelli, she's Claire. Huh. Apparently, I have Feelings about Claire.

Callaphera, I have feelings about Claire too. What's funny is that I don't even notice it when I'm watching the show (or rewatching, I guess) but then whenever I go to post about it or think too much about it, I definitely have issues with Claire. Go figure. I too would love it if he goes back again, and Claire's gone with the sheet bunched up at the foot of the autopsy table. Which I suppose they can always do if they do another series and get Hayden back for it. 

 

Claire dying of a heart attack in childbirth still makes zero sense, even with Phoebe's power blocking shadow. Other Evos at the summit were still able to use their abilities up until Phoebe started projecting her shadow outwards, and the babies had already been born/Claire had already died by the time she was doing that. I'm going to hope that they left her death intentionally odd so that they can backtrack on it in another series with a "psh, like a heart attack could really kill Claire!" if they want. 

 

So did Mohinder die? Because I am going to be seriously, seriously pissed if they brought him back for 1 episode and then had a stupid bomb blow him up. Hiro had damn well have teleported him out of there. I was ticked when the Haitian bit it in the first episode, but I will be super pissed if Mohinder is actually dead. He wasn't even my favorite from the original, but it's seriously not cool to bring back old characters just to murder them off. 

 

I loved seeing Angela again! So did she die in the past then, since she said she'd go back with Hiro to look after the babies, and yet it seems Tommy/Nathan was still raised by that nurse? Or did she decide it was better to split them up, and she stayed with Malina in the north? 

 

I thought it was interesting that none of them seemed at all concerned about who the father of the twins is or where he was. I'd like to know who he is. The only character who I remember as being age appropriate for Claire was West, that kid who could fly. When Angela named the baby Nathan, I was like "really? You're naming Claire's son after her father who she barely knew and didn't like all that much?" 

 

I'm really interested in where they're going with the story now, since it seems that Nathan's entire past has now been changed. I'm wondering if Hiro is the father who raised him too. 

Or maybe Parkman, since he's due to appear but has yet to be seen?

If his past has changed, I wonder if Malina's has as well. 

 

I'm really wondering what happened in all the variations where Hiro stopped the bombs that made them so much worse than allowing them to go off. This would be a really good thing for them to explore in the web comics they used to do. I wish they were doing them for this series now!

 

And what did Noah do that was so bad that Molly wanted absolutely nothing to do with him when she saw him in the present? I'm guessing that will be in part 2?

 

I really liked this episode, but I wish it had come a little earlier in the series. It didn't need to be the first episode, but maybe the 4th or so. I think cutting out Carlos' story entirely, maybe even cutting out Luke's (at least shortening it, if it turns out he's so important), and shortening Miko's would have been better pacing. Even with the amount of stupidity on the show, I'm still enjoying it. I doubt it will get another series, but if it did, I'd probably watch it too. 

 

If he sent them to the future it (presumably) would have been the scorched earth version so he had to send them to the past.  The question is why only 15 years.  I'd want my world saving heroes to be well trained and at their peaks.  That's certainly not the case with a couple of teenagers.

They decided 15 years because that's when Claire first manifested her ability. It still doesn't make a lot of sense because they're well aware that Evos can manifest at younger ages than that (Molly, Micah), but that was the reason they gave. 

Edited October 30, 2015 by Jenniferbug

[XtremeOne1]

The dialogue and like 90% of the acting on this is so so so awful. And the plot...is there anything that makes sense.

 

It's nice they've stopped stealing from X-Men and started stealing from Star Wars.

 

And yeah the whole "let's send them back 15 years" thing doesn't make sense. "We need someone to save the world! Let's rely on a bunch of 15 year olds because that's when their powers will first manifest! What, you want well trained, full powered, non-hormonal adults? NO THANK YOU!"

 

Okay for the rest of the episode, I was upset that NBC couldn't get Hayden Panettiere, to do a guest star role (is she that expensive now)? They didn't even have HRG take that stupid cloth off of the supposed Claire's head.

 

 

Well I think Hayden was pregnant at the time of shooting, or maybe just gave birth, so with that and her own show, I doubt she had time.

 

As for Claire coming back for another season...given the ratings/lukewarm critical reaction, I'd be shocked if it was. This isn't a cheap show. Unless they cut the episode numbers even more(maybe 6 would work for a show like this) and throw it on Friday nights?

Edited October 30, 2015 by XtremeOne1

[Callaphera]

Callaphera, I have feelings about Claire too. What's funny is that I don't even notice it when I'm watching the show (or rewatching, I guess) but then whenever I go to post about it or think too much about it, I definitely have issues with Claire. Go figure. I too would love it if he goes back again, and Claire's gone with the sheet bunched up at the foot of the autopsy table. Which I suppose they can always do if they do another series and get Hayden back for it. 

 

Claire dying of a heart attack in childbirth still makes zero sense, even with Phoebe's power blocking shadow. Other Evos at the summit were still able to use their abilities up until Phoebe started projecting her shadow outwards, and the babies had already been born/Claire had already died by the time she was doing that. I'm going to hope that they left her death intentionally odd so that they can backtrack on it in another series with a "psh, like a heart attack could really kill Claire!" if they want. 

 

Besides, didn't they cover this in the original series when they all lost their powers and Claire almost died of an infection following being shot? Her regenerative powers kept her from getting sick. It's not that much of a stretch of the imagination to think that it would also protect her from a heart attack. The girl cut off her own dang toe and regrew it! An infusion of her blood brought HRG back to life after a bullet through the eye! You can grow a toe and bring your parents back from the dead but watch your salt and red meat consumption because you might have a massive heart attack one day? HRG even brought up the spot in the back of her head that functions as an "off" switch because it was supposed to be the only thing that could kill her, barring someone like Papa Petrelli doing to her what he did to Adam. Yet he never checked the spot. Hell, he never peeked under the sheet to see if it was her, just petted her pretty blonde hair. My newly discovered Claire issues, let me show you them. Either way, they had established the fact (through Claire, Adam, and Sylar) that they could only stay down with the back of the head spot and Sylar even managed to shapeshift his elsewhere. I've always been curious as to where...

 

So I'd like to think that Claire isn't dead, it was a fake Claire under the sheet (shapeshifter?), and that Erica has Claire hiding somewhere so she can turn her into an app in the Google Play store, too. 

 

 

I thought it was interesting that none of them seemed at all concerned about who the father of the twins is or where he was. I'd like to know who he is. The only character who I remember as being age appropriate for Claire was West, that kid who could fly. When Angela named the baby Nathan, I was like "really? You're naming Claire's son after her father who she barely knew and didn't like all that much?"

 

"For the son I lost..." Crap, that means Peter's still bumming around New York, isn't he? If this does get a second run and they manage to get back those two actors, I hope we get more inappropriate chemistry between the uncle and niece, because that used to make me crack up. 

 

 

I'm really interested in where they're going with the story now, since it seems that Nathan's entire past has now been changed. I'm wondering if Hiro is the father who raised him too.  Spoiler If his past has changed, I wonder if Malina's has as well.

 

I like your spoiler theory to a point: wouldn't that negate the whole first four seasons? Because we followed that character through the series and that wouldn't line up with what we've seen. I floated that same idea to Mr. Callaphera after the episode ended but we figured that it would change too much of what happened in the original series. Or is that now something that never happened, because of Hiro taking the kids into the past, which could potentially change what we think of as the "history" of the show? If it is a fixed point in time, then no, but this is Heroes. 

 

I can't believe I'm saying this, but this episode kind of made me miss old Hiro. He never really cared about stepping on butterflies. He wanted to keep crushing those suckers under his feet (trying to save his dad from being murdered, changing history so Ando and his sister were married instead of her not liking him, etc.).

 

 

So did Mohinder die? Because I am going to be seriously, seriously pissed if they brought him back for 1 episode and then had a stupid bomb blow him up. Hiro had damn well have teleported him out of there. I was ticked when the Haitian bit it in the first episode, but I will be super pissed if Mohinder is actually dead. He wasn't even my favorite from the original, but it's seriously not cool to bring back old characters just to murder them off.

 

I said this in an earlier episode thread, but really, it's not shaping up too good for the past Heroes (I still hate the term "Evos"). The Haitian Sensation died, Molly died, Mohinder most likely blew up but maybe not. Angela Petrelli still seems safe, because if she does go back in the past and dies, that also negates the original four seasons (pretty sure she's going to hop back with Hiro after dropping off the babies). Of course, she might still get it. The way this is going, I expect HRG to die in the last episode. 

[Free]

I said this in an earlier episode thread, but really, it's not shaping up too good for the past Heroes (I still hate the term "Evos"). The Haitian Sensation died, Molly died, Mohinder most likely blew up but maybe not. Angela Petrelli still seems safe, because if she does go back in the past and dies, that also negates the original four seasons (pretty sure she's going to hop back with Hiro after dropping off the babies). Of course, she might still get it. The way this is going, I expect HRG to die in the last episode.

 

Definitely, just feels like they're here just to die to make room for the uninteresting new characters.

[Lebanna]

I don't think Mohinder is dead, only because we never saw any charred remains. I could see Angela handing the twins over to some adoptive parents she had vetted and then standing guard over them in secret. In fact, since she's vaguely psychic, she could have known this would happen all along and already set up some funds for herself. Hope she's back in the present with some serious ageing makeup.

Nathan 2.0's dad is clearly going to be someone important, but it would be weird if it were Matt as that really would mess up the timeline. Didn't a bunch of stuff only happen because of his horrible marriage?

The save the cheerleader thing still makes sense if you take it that they only had to keep saving her until she spawned. I mean, I utterly hate it, and the whole 'women are primarily incubators, not real people' horse it rode in on, but it makes sense. Especially for Texas.

It was surprisingly nice to get a flashback of old, short-haired, goofy Hiro. I didn't think I wanted that.

So was Denis an Evo? It seems like he could have been, since Luke is. So unless there's a body next week, I'm expecting him to be not-dead as well.

This episode was generally not so bad.

[TVSpectator]

So, I am still thinking that Hiro and HRG will changned the time line and stop the bombings and then we will probably get a "flashforward" and see the Twins save the world. 

 

 

So was Denis an Evo? It seems like he could have been, since Luke is. So unless there's a body next week, I'm expecting him to be not-dead as well.

Well, I think that in the previews for next week

they show him lying pm a stretcher.

.

 

 

Is any one thinking Hiro will be the father? There was a little eye flirting with the nurse when she was helping him feed the baby.

I don't think he is the father. Because Present/Past Hiro (I am not totally sure what to call this one, but it's the one that got sucked in the video game) was sucked into the video game in his office, back in Japan. If he was the father wouldn't he be at the hospital? Although, maybe the nurse thought Hiro was the father?

 

As with who is the real father, we probably will be told about it, near the end (and yeah, I am thinking that it will be another Star Wars rip off) or they won't reveal the real father at all (and I can see this happening since this is Heroes).

 

As with Claire, I am on board to think that she isn't actually dead. Let's face it, HRG didn't even bother to remove the sheet that was covering her face. I mean that was a bad scene (and yeah, he recreated the same scene from the CCTV video from earlier in the series, but still it's a shitty move on the show's part to not at least try to do something like plaster HP CGI face on and just cut HP a check for the royalties)

[bagert]

Overall, this episode did answer questions (and it did it by not raising new ones), and I didn't see the whole, Claire's twins separated at birth to protect them (and hey, did anyone get a weird Revenge of the Sith vibe while watching Hiro and HRG deciding to separate the twins, at birth? Like, Luke and Leia?

 

 

Oh definitely.  I wouldn't be surprised if NBC used the term "a new hope" in promos.  Oh wait...

[Terrafamilia]

Apparently Hiro got new clothes, let his hair grow out, and took a level in badass all while he was stuck in Evernow prison.

[Free]

Apparently Hiro got new clothes, let his hair grow out, and took a level in badass all while he was stuck in Evernow prison.

 

Basically, it's the Future Hiro from S1 that they got back for this series instead of the regular one.

[tomatoflyer]

I guess I was watching a different show because this was super boring to me. It doesn't bother me about Claire - there's no obligation for the actors to come back, Hayden is busy with her own life (and with the news she has been suffering from post-partum depression, that rings even more true). Milo said he didn't want to return, and I kind of respect that. They don't owe us.

[HunterHunted]

There is also CGI. They've done it for movies where an actor has died before finishing the film. They still might need to get permission, though.

They need to get permission. When Robert Zemeckis faked Crispin Glover's appearance in Back to the Future 2, Glover sued. As a result, you need the express permission of the actor or his or her estate to use their likeness under SAG rules.

[Stardancer Supreme]

My Tivo cut off right after past!HRG sees present!HRG in the hospital and gets up to follow him(self).  What happened at the end?

 

Present!HRG stalked through the hospital until he saw Erica leaving.  Past!HRG saw Present!HRG and followed himself stalking Erica. Present!HRG put the silencer on his gun as he prepared to shoot Erica in her back.  Past!HRG yells and lunges forward to stop himself from shooting Erica. End scene.

[thuganomics85]

The whole "Noah never revealing Claire's face" is so silly, and I just don't buy it if she's actually dead.  Even if they couldn't get Hayden Panettiere back for a cameo or didn't want to spend the money to CGI her face (plus pay her for rights and whatnot), why couldn't they just have Noah remove the sheet and then we only see his reaction?  Sure, it would still be a bit cheap, but Jack Coleman would have likely been able to sell it.  Instead, if just feels like they're trying to keep a possibility open that Claire is still alive, and if they don't deliver (which is very likely they won't, I think), it's going to just come off stupid.

 

Never thought I would be happy to see Mohinder again, but after being underwhelmed by so many of the newbies, I was actually glad to see him again.  And we did get a Petrelli!  Hey, Angela!

 

So, the big takeaway is that Claire's children will be the new saviors or something, and thanks to some Hiro time-traveling trickery, her children are none other then Tommy (whose real name is Nathan.  Better then Peter, in my opinion) and Malina.  This was all done so there powers would be stronger for when the times comes, plus with the bonus that Erica would be looking for babies instead.  I'm just glad Tommy's already got a love interest in Emily, because if he didn't, I'd be worried the show would attempt a Luke/Leia type "Whoops, we're actually siblings!" type of thing with these two.

 

Still don't care about Luke or Joanne.

 

I really don't understand Harris Prime not using his power to their fullest.  If he can create clones with just a single limb, why hasn't he just created armies and armies of little Harris Clones?  He really could be unstoppable, but he's just half-assing it.  Maybe he doesn't actually like his job, and he's just phoning it in like a typical worker drone.  Understandable, I guess!

[MarkHB]

I really don't understand Harris Prime not using his power to their fullest.  If he can create clones with just a single limb, why hasn't he just created armies and armies of little Harris Clones?  He really could be unstoppable, but he's just half-assing it.  Maybe he doesn't actually like his job, and he's just phoning it in like a typical worker drone.  Understandable, I guess!

 

I wonder if the reason the clones didn't try to seek out the other entrances last week is because Clonez Iz Stoopid.  That would explain the limited usefulness of having an army.

[benteen]

 

It's nice they've stopped stealing from X-Men and started stealing from Star Wars.

 

No, they're STILL ripping off X-Men.  This time they are ripping off the more recent Hope Summers storyline.

 

Ah, Mohinder...stay stupid and keep making bad decisions forever, buddy.  Forever.

 

Despite the ripping off of Star Wars, I definitely liked this episode too.  It cut straight to the point and utilized the returning characters well.  Enjoyed seeing Hiro cut loose with the swords.

Edited November 1, 2015 by benteen

[Free]

I guess I was watching a different show because this was super boring to me. It doesn't bother me about Claire - there's no obligation for the actors to come back, Hayden is busy with her own life (and with the news she has been suffering from post-partum depression, that rings even more true). Milo said he didn't want to return, and I kind of respect that. They don't owe us.

 

Basically, it's nostalgia for the old characters from the previous series.

[coppersin]

Is any one thinking Hiro will be the father? There was a little eye flirting with the nurse when she was helping him feed the baby.

The nurse is Tommy's adoptive mother, so yeah, I'm betting she and Hiro raise him. Judging by her preppy look and elegant surroundings in the preview, Malina was probably raised by their grandmother. As for their biodad, I don't think it's even relevant. Claire moved on with her life, tried to start a family, and ended up in a morgue. It's sad, but that's probably the end of their parental backstory; it's all about saving the world now. Even if they did introduce a biodad for the twins, it's unlikely to be anyone from the original series, so how invested would any of us be?

 

And the big butterfly is that Nathan/Tommy is now fully aware of his powers on the day of the Odessa explosion and has been trained by "his father" (whoever his stepfather turned out to be) and this mother is the nurse from the hospital -- and I guess that is probably the last we will see of Emily.

Are we sure there was a butterfly effect, though? If we've always had the twins in the present, then Hiro always took them to the past. So, we don't know that anything we've seen yet would actually alter the timeline. If Tommy/Nathan knows his true name and purpose on the day of the summit, that could just mean that his memory was altered between the Odessa explosion and the current storyline.

 

I like your spoiler theory to a point: wouldn't that negate the whole first four seasons? Because we followed that character through the series and that wouldn't line up with what we've seen. I floated that same idea to Mr. Callaphera after the episode ended but we figured that it would change too much of what happened in the original series. Or is that now something that never happened, because of Hiro taking the kids into the past, which could potentially change what we think of as the "history" of the show? If it is a fixed point in time, then no, but this is Heroes. 

Nope, as long as Hiro and Angela are careful, they can stay in the past without affecting the orginal series' timeline. The babies were taken to the past by versions of Angela and Hiro from the day of the Odessa summit. Two versions of the same person can exist at the same time without a paradox, as proven by the two HRGs of this episode. So, Odessa!Angela & Hiro can exist in the past raising the kids somewhere that they won't be recognized, and their past selves will keep living their 1999 lives without knowing anything or being affected. They're essentially different people.

 

Even though it was poorly handled, I'm guessing we didn't see Claire's face simply because 1) they were short on time and money, and 2) it gave them a loophole in case she wanted to come back later. Though if they really wanted us to believe the indestructible cheerleader was dead, they could've found someone similar to HP, who is very pretty but whose features are fairly typical and All-American, and just slapped on the "death" makeup of pasty white skin and blue lips. I do hope they explain how she was killed by a heart attack, though, because that's one hell of a loophole. I don't think the timeline of Phoebe's massive shadow matches up, unless Claire was conveniently caught under one of the practice runs? What about the drug they pump into caught Evo's via cannula - that restrains powers, yes? Maybe she was dosed with that?

 

And until we see a body, Mohinder isn't dead. Unlike everyone else at the summit, he knew that there were bombs and had time to at least try running somewhere safe. I know he wasn't the brightest bulb, but I still loved Mohinder, even during his dullest and dumbest storylines, and since we've already lost other original characters, if we also lose Mohinder's pretty pretty face and pretty pretty hair, I'll still watch to the end - but I'll probably start rooting for the CME. Not sure this is actually a spoiler, but just in case:

IMDb (I know, I know) lists Ramamurthy for 4 episodes, though that may not mean anything now that we're time travelling.

 

Interesting that Luke's power seems energized by sunlight, yet his son is harmed by it. So either his DNA did a 180-turn, or maybe his sun allergy was just a forerunner to his own sun-sensitive power?

 

Poor Hiro - when he first popped out of Evernow, his long (fake) hair had a bit of a mullet happening in the back. In the previews, he has some rather unconvincing paint-by-numbers grey streaks. Time has not been kind to his hair. He was, however, adorably uncomfortable holding lil' Tommy.

 

If we never saw Carlos or heard of his storyline again, I would be annoyed that we spent so much time on him but doubt it would make any difference to future episodes. I'm sure the writers have a plan for him, but he still seems to detached from the action.

 

Basically, it's nostalgia for the old characters from the previous series.

You're right. Nostalgia was basically 90% of why I was watching; now that we're getting meatier stuff with the original cast (and Matt appearing next week!) it's closer to 95%. I'm mildly interested in the twins and that's basically it for the "new" material. Even original characters that I never much cared for (Claire) seem like time better spent than Carlos or Miko. And as frustrated as I am with the quality of this show, I still getting a happy little grin when we get callbacks to the original, like the tinkling piano music when Mohinder first appeared, and the eclipse on the nursery mural. I'm curious if the creators had any interest in continuing this beyond a single miniseries (ratings permitting), since they seem so kill-happy with the original cast.

Edited November 1, 2015 by coppersin

[Free]

You're right. Nostalgia was basically 90% of why I was watching; now that we're getting meatier stuff with the original cast (and Matt appearing next week!) it's closer to 95%. I'm mildly interested in the twins and that's basically it for the "new" material. Even original characters that I never much cared for (Claire) seem like time better spent than Carlos or Miko. And as frustrated as I am with the quality of this show, I still getting a happy little grin when we get callbacks to the original, like the tinkling piano music when Mohinder first appeared, and the eclipse on the nursery mural. I'm curious if the creators had any interest in continuing this beyond a single miniseries (ratings permitting), since they seem so kill-happy with the original cast.

 

If they're going about it, they're doing it all wrong, the new characters for the most part aren't interesting and they've kept on killing off some of the older characters.

[Jenniferbug]

Besides, didn't they cover this in the original series when they all lost their powers and Claire almost died of an infection following being shot? Her regenerative powers kept her from getting sick. It's not that much of a stretch of the imagination to think that it would also protect her from a heart attack. The girl cut off her own dang toe and regrew it! An infusion of her blood brought HRG back to life after a bullet through the eye! You can grow a toe and bring your parents back from the dead but watch your salt and red meat consumption because you might have a massive heart attack one day? HRG even brought up the spot in the back of her head that functions as an "off" switch because it was supposed to be the only thing that could kill her, barring someone like Papa Petrelli doing to her what he did to Adam. Yet he never checked the spot. Hell, he never peeked under the sheet to see if it was her, just petted her pretty blonde hair. My newly discovered Claire issues, let me show you them. Either way, they had established the fact (through Claire, Adam, and Sylar) that they could only stay down with the back of the head spot and Sylar even managed to shapeshift his elsewhere. I've always been curious as to where...

 

So I'd like to think that Claire isn't dead, it was a fake Claire under the sheet (shapeshifter?), and that Erica has Claire hiding somewhere so she can turn her into an app in the Google Play store, too. 

 

"For the son I lost..." Crap, that means Peter's still bumming around New York, isn't he? If this does get a second run and they manage to get back those two actors, I hope we get more inappropriate chemistry between the uncle and niece, because that used to make me crack up. 

 

I like your spoiler theory to a point: wouldn't that negate the whole first four seasons? Because we followed that character through the series and that wouldn't line up with what we've seen. I floated that same idea to Mr. Callaphera after the episode ended but we figured that it would change too much of what happened in the original series. Or is that now something that never happened, because of Hiro taking the kids into the past, which could potentially change what we think of as the "history" of the show? If it is a fixed point in time, then no, but this is Heroes. 

 

I can't believe I'm saying this, but this episode kind of made me miss old Hiro. He never really cared about stepping on butterflies. He wanted to keep crushing those suckers under his feet (trying to save his dad from being murdered, changing history so Ando and his sister were married instead of her not liking him, etc.).

 

I said this in an earlier episode thread, but really, it's not shaping up too good for the past Heroes (I still hate the term "Evos"). The Haitian Sensation died, Molly died, Mohinder most likely blew up but maybe not. Angela Petrelli still seems safe, because if she does go back in the past and dies, that also negates the original four seasons (pretty sure she's going to hop back with Hiro after dropping off the babies). Of course, she might still get it. The way this is going, I expect HRG to die in the last episode. 

I'm going to agree that Claire is probably not dead, and if she's alive, Erica knows where she is. I doubt it will come into play in this series, since we know Hayden isn't returning, but if they were to get renewed for another one, I'd expect it come up sooner or later. 

 

And oh my gosh, the inappropriate chemistry from the original series! I kept hoping they would change Claire's biological father to someone else (Adam Monroe would have made a ton of sense...) so that she wouldn't be a Petrelli anymore. Not because I wanted her and Peter to be together, but Hayden and Milo were so awful at acting related. They couldn't stop eye fucking and it was creepy and took me out of their scenes together every time. 

 

And yes, you're absolutely correct that 

Parkman can't be the father who raised them, since he was busy being a cop/being in a bad marriage/having his own son during the time they would be raised. I forgot all about that- time travel makes me head spin sometimes. I don't think they'd change that. I could see Hiro being the stepfather/father to raise Tommy, since his 200-2015 self is stuck in Evernow, but once he's freed from there there's really nothing stopping him from living in the past to raise one or both of the twins.

 

The nurse is Tommy's adoptive mother, so yeah, I'm betting she and Hiro raise him. Judging by her preppy look and elegant surroundings in the preview, Malina was probably raised by their grandmother. As for their biodad, I don't think it's even relevant. Claire moved on with her life, tried to start a family, and ended up in a morgue. It's sad, but that's probably the end of their parental backstory; it's all about saving the world now. Even if they did introduce a biodad for the twins, it's unlikely to be anyone from the original series, so how invested would any of us be?

 

Are we sure there was a butterfly effect, though? If we've always had the twins in the present, then Hiro always took them to the past. So, we don't know that anything we've seen yet would actually alter the timeline. If Tommy/Nathan knows his true name and purpose on the day of the summit, that could just mean that his memory was altered between the Odessa explosion and the current storyline.

 

Nope, as long as Hiro and Angela are careful, they can stay in the past without affecting the orginal series' timeline. The babies were taken to the past by versions of Angela and Hiro from the day of the Odessa summit. Two versions of the same person can exist at the same time without a paradox, as proven by the two HRGs of this episode. So, Odessa!Angela & Hiro can exist in the past raising the kids somewhere that they won't be recognized, and their past selves will keep living their 1999 lives without knowing anything or being affected. They're essentially different people.

 

Even though it was poorly handled, I'm guessing we didn't see Claire's face simply because 1) they were short on time and money, and 2) it gave them a loophole in case she wanted to come back later. Though if they really wanted us to believe the indestructible cheerleader was dead, they could've found someone similar to HP, who is very pretty but whose features are fairly typical and All-American, and just slapped on the "death" makeup of pasty white skin and blue lips. I do hope they explain how she was killed by a heart attack, though, because that's one hell of a loophole. I don't think the timeline of Phoebe's massive shadow matches up, unless Claire was conveniently caught under one of the practice runs? What about the drug they pump into caught Evo's via cannula - that restrains powers, yes? Maybe she was dosed with that?

 

And until we see a body, Mohinder isn't dead. Unlike everyone else at the summit, he knew that there were bombs and had time to at least try running somewhere safe. I know he wasn't the brightest bulb, but I still loved Mohinder, even during his dullest and dumbest storylines, and since we've already lost other original characters, if we also lose Mohinder's pretty pretty face and pretty pretty hair, I'll still watch to the end - but I'll probably start rooting for the CME. Not sure this is actually a spoiler, but just in case:

IMDb (I know, I know) lists Ramamurthy for 4 episodes, though that may not mean anything now that we're time travelling.

 

Interesting that Luke's power seems energized by sunlight, yet his son is harmed by it. So either his DNA did a 180-turn, or maybe his sun allergy was just a forerunner to his own sun-sensitive power?

 

Poor Hiro - when he first popped out of Evernow, his long (fake) hair had a bit of a mullet happening in the back. In the previews, he has some rather unconvincing paint-by-numbers grey streaks. Time has not been kind to his hair. He was, however, adorably uncomfortable holding lil' Tommy.

 

If we never saw Carlos or heard of his storyline again, I would be annoyed that we spent so much time on him but doubt it would make any difference to future episodes. I'm sure the writers have a plan for him, but he still seems to detached from the action.

 

You're right. Nostalgia was basically 90% of why I was watching; now that we're getting meatier stuff with the original cast (and Matt appearing next week!) it's closer to 95%. I'm mildly interested in the twins and that's basically it for the "new" material. Even original characters that I never much cared for (Claire) seem like time better spent than Carlos or Miko. And as frustrated as I am with the quality of this show, I still getting a happy little grin when we get callbacks to the original, like the tinkling piano music when Mohinder first appeared, and the eclipse on the nursery mural. I'm curious if the creators had any interest in continuing this beyond a single miniseries (ratings permitting), since they seem so kill-happy with the original cast.

I don't know, I think if they're going to make the father of Claire's twins known (and it's possible that they won't ever address it), I'd be surprised if it's not a character that we know- whether from the old series or this one. And if they don't address it, it will kind of bother me. But then, I'm still annoyed that we never found out who the mother of Sylar's son Noah was in that weird future episode. Claire? Elle? They never said, and it bugs me to this day. I admit, it's silly. 

 

Totally with you on Mohinder. I loved him no matter how dumb or boring his storylines were. He wasn't my favorite, but I always loved him. 

 

I'm mostly watching for nostalgia too. I loved this show. Is this series terrific? No, not at all. But I don't watch much TV anyway, it's entertained me more than 90% of what's on these days, and I'm enjoying it enough to stick with it till the end. I feel like it might have done better as a Netflix series, where it could be binge watched. I'd certainly watch it, and I think binge watching would help gloss over a lot of pacing issues. 

[Callaphera]

I don't know, I think if they're going to make the father of Claire's twins known (and it's possible that they won't ever address it), I'd be surprised if it's not a character that we know- whether from the old series or this one. And if they don't address it, it will kind of bother me. But then, I'm still annoyed that we never found out who the mother of Sylar's son Noah was in that weird future episode. Claire? Elle? They never said, and it bugs me to this day. I admit, it's silly. 

 

You're not the only one. I actually went diving through Wikis and fan sites when we were rewatching the series this summer in anticipation of this new one and couldn't find any info about who was Sylar's kid's mother. Or if he was adopted. But Sylar flipping pancakes and being all "Hey, buddy!" in his pretty apron will never stop being funny and slightly creepy after watching him slice people's heads open like he was breaking into a watermelon at the company picnic. I always hoped it was Elle. I thought her and Sylar had great chemistry, for being two very screwed up people. If only they could have stopped murdering people, those two crazy kids could've made it. I'm still not over Elle.

 

I don't think we'll ever know who Claire's baby daddy is. And I don't think they can make Tommy/Nathan's "father" any of the Original Recipe Heroes without negating the timeline, other than Future!Hiro living in the past. I could see Past!Angela dumping Malina on EvenMorePast!Angela because I don't think that would screw up the timeline. The woman was good at keeping secrets. I don't see her staying there to raise her, because she would still age and I don't think she's going to come back fifteen years older (if she comes back). I didn't get previews for next week on my Canadian channel and I haven't seen one yet, so I'm just spitballing. 

 

I'm sad that we're not getting Ando with Hiro, though. It's like a peanut butter sandwich without the jelly. Still palatable but not the same. 

[Free]

If we never saw Carlos or heard of his storyline again, I would be annoyed that we spent so much time on him but doubt it would make any difference to future episodes. I'm sure the writers have a plan for him, but he still seems to detached from the action.

 

This episode pretty much illustrate my problem with the conception of this series.  It should've started here instead at the incident instead of waiting half a season on those subplots

[TVSpectator]

This episode pretty much illustrate my problem with the conception of this series.  It should've started here instead at the incident instead of waiting half a season on those subplots

 

I agree that it should've started here, in Odessa on June 13 and we should've not even bother with Carlos' story. I mean how does his story dovetails into the main one; it feels like a totally different show. Although, I think that they wanted this episode place closer to the end because they must've thought that revealing the information on the twins would be a shocking twist (and honestly I didn't see it coming till the babies were being held by HRG) and dramatic. What instead it did was having viewers drop out during the crappy earlier ones (like the one we got last week with Luke's attempted suicide). 

[Free]

I agree that it should've started here, in Odessa on June 13 and we should've not even bother with Carlos' story. I mean how does his story dovetails into the main one; it feels like a totally different show. Although, I think that they wanted this episode place closer to the end because they must've thought that revealing the information on the twins would be a shocking twist (and honestly I didn't see it coming till the babies were being held by HRG) and dramatic. What instead it did was having viewers drop out during the crappy earlier ones (like the one we got last week with Luke's attempted suicide). 

 

But that would've been better at the start of the series and kicked off the series and its' direction for the rest of its episodes instead of being relatively stagnant and laughably trying to be mysterious, while spreading itself thin bouncing around characters and subplots.

[TVSpectator]

But that would've been better at the start of the series and kicked off the series and its' direction for the rest of its episodes instead of being relatively stagnant and laughably trying to be mysterious, while spreading itself thin bouncing around characters and subplots.

 

From what I remember of how the older series was, IMO, this is typical writing. 

[KaveDweller]

I don't think Claire is dead. She couldn't regenerate in the hospital because of that dark stuff blocking everyone's powers. That doesn't mean she didn't regenerate after the darkness went away. Or she could have been hurried alive when the darkness was still going on, but will regenerate if someone digs her up.

[TVSpectator]

I don't think Claire is dead. She couldn't regenerate in the hospital because of that dark stuff blocking everyone's powers. That doesn't mean she didn't regenerate after the darkness went away. Or she could have been hurried alive when the darkness was still going on, but will regenerate if someone digs her up.

 

Yeah, that is my suspicion on what happened to Claire, but I think that the whole "she died in childbirth and we can't revive her" was there only because the show couldn't get HP to do a guest star role.

Edited November 1, 2015 by TVSpectator

[Free]

From what I remember of how the older series was, IMO, this is typical writing. 

 

It is and sadly they haven't learned from it.  It's just more noticeable in a self contained 13 episode series, so timing/pacing is more of an issue than the usual long running series.

[TVSpectator]

It is and sadly they haven't learned from it.  It's just more noticeable in a self contained 13 episode series, so timing/pacing is more of an issue than the usual long running series.

 

The advantage to having a 20+ episode season was that you had room to do those extra episodes that were considered, by many fans,  to be filler. Although, not all filler was good (and sometimes just plain awful), but at least sometimes you got to see character growth in those episodes and they also broke up the monotony of seeing the main arc going; especially when the main arc was dragging, horribly depressing (like watching the Dominion War arc on DS9),  or was just completely stupid. 

 

Now, that Kring got his shorten season he wasted it on a few episodes that could be called "filler" and so, IMO, the quality of the show dropped. 

Edited November 1, 2015 by TVSpectator

[Free]

Now, that Kring got his shorten season he wasted it on a few episodes that could be called "filler" and so, IMO, the quality of the show dropped.

 

Kring just can't seem to handle it at all regardless of episode length or a clean slate which he reset every season.