Spoiler Discussion Thread

[LeighAn]

She didn't even trend the episode she was killed or the episode of her funeral except briefly in Brazil or Italy. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think there's no comparison between the reaction Laurel's death and Lexa's death had..and I don't think the EPs thought no one was going to care about Laurel's death btw, they wanted it to have an impact on the viewers but from the lack of petty comments from MG I'd say the reaction was pretty much what they expected.

[JJ928]

I'm gonna disagree with you there. I can't remember any fictional character's death more talked about than Lexa. Hell, people are still writing articles over it & it's annoying as hell ( and I say this as a bisexual woman). A few queer woc, were killed in the same season on different shows and there wasn't shit for them, but fandom but didn't care about anyone but that white girl in brown face & a bindi. I don't remember LL get even close to the same outrage as Lexa, but she did receive more than Abby, imo. But then fandom always goes hard for white women.

Edited January 12, 2017 by JJ928

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, LeighAn said:

She didn't even trend the episode she was killed or the episode of her funeral except briefly in Brazil or Italy. 

No Laurel no arrow trended. Even David admitted that the outcry was bigger than they expected and that's coming from someone on the show themselves. 

[LeighAn]

1 minute ago, tv echo said:

In response to fans who asked (1) in which episode she and Felicity become BFFs and (2) in which episode she makes her debut...

Honestly I'm really rooting for the writers to not live down to everyone's expectations and to actually have Felicity and Tina be genuine hang out together friends without the Oliver of it all. Maybe even have Tina and Oliver be genuine friends and partners without romantic baggage. I still have enough faith that it's not out of the writers ability.

[Sakura12]

I think the Black Canary is talked about more than Laurel. Fans are upset that they killed of comic canon character more than it being about LL the character. LL outside of her mask was still not a popular character nor one the writers of this show enjoyed writing for. That is plainly evident in the past 4 seasons of this show. Laurel became an afterthought after she failed in season 1. She didn't get much of a hero origin story or even an introduction to the team story that almost everyone else received. Oliver never told her his secret and didn't invite her to join the team. She just showed up and wouldn't leave. 

I didn't recognize any traits of comic BC in Arrow's Laurel. All she had was her name. Sara was given most of the BC origin and this nuBC seems to be getting the rest. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 minute ago, LeighAn said:

Honestly I'm really rooting for the writers to not live down to everyone's expectations and to actually have Felicity and Tina be genuine hang out together friends without the Oliver of it all. Maybe even have Tina and Oliver be genuine friends and partners without romantic baggage. I still have enough faith that it's not out of the writers ability.

I think it's more likely to have Oliver and Tina be friends than Felicity and Tina because those writers don't seem to care about friendships between women while they care to establish a connection with the lead character. :/

[LeighAn]

11 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

No Laurel no arrow trended. Even David admitted that the outcry was bigger than they expected and that's coming from someone on the show themselves. 

IIRC it didn't trend unless your thinking about tailor trends which is not the same thing. 

As others pointed out the writer knew full well that they were going to get a reaction and they likely got exactly the reaction they wanted by evidence of their lack of defensiveness about Laurel and they demonstrated with BMD and this season that they DO get defensive when the audience doesn't have the reaction they expect them to have. With Laurel outrage they adopted an ignore it and maybe they'll  go away approach, and yet two writers got into a pissy social media spat with fans over Felicity saying she owed Billy sex.

The president of the CW was questioned about Lexa as a talking point at the recent TCA- he was not asked for a response on Laurel.

But I'll try not to beat dead horse.

[Cleanqueen]

If you can't even trend in the US then there is no Social Media traction...her fans couldn't even trend when she died outside of Brazil and UK so how was there any real substantial SM traction. 

And Thea and Diggle have trended plenty of times and esp during the episode, so there is definite traction for them. 

The fact that nothing was shown on twitter about her after that 5x09 cliffhanger shows that she is no SM buzzworthy.

I do remember her trending in season 3 and she trended with Felicity so it wasn't even a standalone trend.

The truth is that she has NO substantial fanbase, MAJORITY of the ones that like her either hate olicity/felicity or don't even watch the show. So they hate stan her rather than actually being legitimate fans who can create enough traction for her.

[LeighAn]

14 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I think it's more likely to have Oliver and Tina be friends than Felicity and Tina because those writers don't seem to care about friendships between women while they care to establish a connection with the lead character. :/

I'd prefer Tina and Felicity but I'll accept Tina and Oliver since it would show growth or televisions version of growth for Oliver to have a friendship with the opposite sex that's uninhibited by romance. 

Obviously provided that the friendship worked in harmony with Olivers actual established and earnt friendships with Diggle and Felicity. 

[Trisha]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

After reading that latest TVLine spoiler article, I think that this may be the last Arrow season for me.

At this point, I have no desire even to watch 510.

 

Oh god, is there a new spoiler article? The only thing I saw today was comicbook.com trying to stir stuff up with a story on FS becoming BC (which MG already responded to on Twitter with "Nope. Sorry.")

[LeighAn]

I looked on tvlime and the most recent article is the same "Black Canary is important" article.

[tv echo]

On 1/10/2017 at 5:49 PM, HighHopes said:

 

Sorry, I was late to the discussion. I was referring to the above TVLine article.

[catrox14]

29 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I think it's more likely to have Oliver and Tina be friends than Felicity and Tina because those writers don't seem to care about friendships between women while they care to establish a connection with the lead character. :/

Hey  we got instant besties with Laurel &  Felicity when they gave insta-Bkack Canary. I fully expect Felicity to be used to prop Tina the same way. there was Nyssa &  Laurel too.

[Midnight Lullaby]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Hey  we got instant besties with Laurel &  Felicity when they gave insta-Bkack Canary. I fully expect Felicity to be used to prop Tina the same way. there was Nyssa &  Laurel too.

That's not exactly my definition of friendship, LOL. Well it's tradition for Felicity to prop masks so I can see that but a real friendship not really. The only real friendship I currently see on the show is Oliver-Dig to make an example.

[Cleanqueen]

15 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

 

Tina isn't an option...why?

Because Oliver already has his post Felicity hookup that hasn't ended yet. The fact that Susan has taken this long signifies that they're trying to make it seem like it's not just a hook up but somewhat of a relationship. 

[catrox14]

11 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

That's not exactly my definition of friendship, LOL. Well it's tradition for Felicity to prop masks so I can see that but a real friendship not really. The only real friendship I currently see on the show is Oliver-Dig to make an example.

It's not mine either but that is what the show sold as Friendship.

[Proteus]

30 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Because Oliver already has his post Felicity hookup that hasn't ended yet. The fact that Susan has taken this long signifies that they're trying to make it seem like it's not just a hook up but somewhat of a relationship. 

I don't think Oliver dating Susan means he won't be tested with Tina. I don't think this is all about making Oliver and Felicity even.

[LeighAn]

All we know about Tina that's confirmed is 

• She's from Hib City
• Shes a Cop
• Shes not a fan of vigilantes 
• Her and Oliver will have connection as she has her own Island as she's lost someone.

Thats literally it. We have no confirmation that she is Black Canary or a masked hero apart from circumstantial and strong supporting evidence.

And we have even less evidence to support she's his love interest except that she's hot so ergo she must be and casting sides that the writers openly said were fake.

[Cleanqueen]

8 minutes ago, Proteus said:

I don't think Oliver dating Susan means he won't be tested with Tina. I don't think this is all about making Oliver and Felicity even.

didn't say it was about them being even, but many contend the only reason felicity got a bf was so Oliver can move on and be free to date Susan which to me sounds legitimate. Now he's dating her and felicity is single again. I am not saying ppl being cautious about Tina is unwarranted, I just don't think from a narrative perspective that she is a LI for him. She might not be for anyone. If they want the character to succeed and be BC then I don't see how throwing her in to a relationship right off the bat helps her case. 

[Velocity23]

His relationship with Susan will last longer than Mckenna. It length it will have the same length as Sara. 

[AyChihuahua]

3 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

didn't say it was about them being even, but many contend the only reason felicity got a bf was so Oliver can move on and be free to date Susan which to me sounds legitimate. Now he's dating her and felicity is single again. I am not saying ppl being cautious about Tina is unwarranted, I just don't think from a narrative perspective that she is a LI for him. She might not be for anyone. If they want the character to succeed and be BC then I don't see how throwing her in to a relationship right off the bat helps her case. 

I said that Susan was probably a palate cleanser for Tina months ago. Around the time I said she'd be NuBC/there'd be a NuBC and mostly got slapped down.

(I don't know that they'll hook up this season. I think they'll TEST them this season.)

Edited January 12, 2017 by AyChihuahua

[Velocity23]

Just now, AyChihuahua said:

I said that Susan was probably a palate cleanser for Tina months ago. Around the time I said she'd be NuBC/there'd be a NuBC and mostly got slapped down.

Cannot wait for the end of season. 

[insomniadreams88]

This is why I think the smartest thing for the show to do is make Tina Oliver's friend - and only his friend. Susan claimed he needed a "friend" when she invited him for drinks. Since Oliver seems to have forgotten he has friends who have been there for him for years, fine, give him a new friend who doesn't have some hidden agenda and let him and Tina just be friends. (Then again, they could still do that this season and set them up for a relationship next season, though I do think keeping Oliver and Felicity apart for another summer would be stupid unless they're never going back to them.)

[Proteus]

6 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

didn't say it was about them being even, but many contend the only reason felicity got a bf was so Oliver can move on and be free to date Susan which to me sounds legitimate. Now he's dating her and felicity is single again. I am not saying ppl being cautious about Tina is unwarranted, I just don't think from a narrative perspective that she is a LI for him. She might not be for anyone. If they want the character to succeed and be BC then I don't see how throwing her in to a relationship right off the bat helps her case. 

I don't think they'd throw her in a relationship right away. If anything I think they'd set something up between her and Oliver to be developed slowly and into next season.

[Cleanqueen]

5 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

I said that Susan was probably a palate cleanser for Tina months ago. Around the time I said she'd be NuBC/there'd be a NuBC and mostly got slapped down.

(I don't know that they'll hook up this season. I think they'll TEST them this season.)

OK if that's the case then I guess in your eyes Olicity is dead then. I don't see it as such and if that was the case that interview Wendy gave was bullcrap and she was lying about having a plan for Olicity towards the end of the season and their story next season will them be apart again. 

[AyChihuahua]

Just now, Proteus said:

I don't think they'd throw her in a relationship right away. If anything I think they'd set something up between her and Oliver to be developed slowly and into next season.

Yep, and if they slow-burn them, it's a lot more likely that it's permanent.

Just now, Cleanqueen said:

OK if that's the case then I guess in your eyes Olicity is dead then. I don't see it as such and if that was the case that interview Wendy gave was bullcrap and she was lying about having a plan for Olicity towards the end of the season and their story next season will them be apart again. 

I did not say that.

[LeighAn]

2 minutes ago, Lidach said:

Fair enough. But Oliver doesn't have female friendships, he is playboy, remember? Right now, he isn't even friend with Felicity. They're just team mates. On show, Oliver and Susan were at first "friends" (like one minute), and next episode they're exchanging saliva. See my point?

When has Oliver EVER been written as a playboy except briefly in the first five episodes of season 1 and then only as an act to cover up his vigilante dealings.

In present time he has had two sexual encounters one with a serious ex girlfriend and one with Isobel , which was mainly used to make Felicity jealous and Oliver guilty to open the can of worms on their underlying feelings for one another.

Other then that he dated and had relationships with three other women two in season 1 and one in season 5 and one serious and committed relationship with Felicity that and after  a season off him being voluntarily celibate.

Don Draper was a playboy Chuck Bass was a play boy Damon was a playboy all characters that would get their rocks off with random girls with zero remorse for sexual pleasure over emotional attachment.

That is not how Oliver has been written or demonstrated as.

[AyChihuahua]

10 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Cannot wait for the end of season. 

Same. I want to see if I can end with my .975 prediction score intact.

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, Lidach said:

You're right. Ah, I am over this Tina NuBC speculation. I hope she is bad ass. 

This. Especially if they plan on having Tina be the new BC and stick around. If we're going to have to see a new BC, I want to at least like Tina as BC, whatever else she has going on. But I don't want her to be the "best fighter ever." Let her be a great fighter because of her background, but make it clear that she's not the best. She doesn't have to be perfect. I can understand if they don't want to spend time training her and think that's the way to eliminate that need, but it's not and they've had other fighters who should be better than her unless, while she was a Marine and a detective, she also spent time in the LoA, trained in Russia with Talia and did like three other things to learn to fight. Which is impossible. 

[wonderwall]

5 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Same. I want to see if I can end with my .975 prediction score intact.

I'm sure you'll let us know

[LeighAn]

2 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Yep, and if they slow-burn them, it's a lot more likely that it's permanent.

I did not say that.

Why would they need to slow burn a couple they don't even know the audience will even like when they already have a couple that the audience actually DOES like and that they themselves are still writing romantic beats for? Or for a character who's not even a series regular?

Tina was cast as a recurring character in contrast Chase was cast as a series regular character.

At the end of the day I feel like this a merry go round similar to how people up until proof Laurel was actually dying still lived in fear that they writers would have a triangle or temporary return to Lauriver even when all evidence to contrary in the writing.

If it happens its a stall or a placeholder relationship for Olicity unless the actress can magically out popular Emily and out chemistry Emily and Stephen and the ship takes off- which considering most of the online audience is prejudiced against her already and it's the online audience who gets her social media traction and buzz I'm doubtful of her chances. Especially in a season were the best reaction the newbies have gotten is general tolerance.

[Ophanim]

1 minute ago, AyChihuahua said:

Same. I want to see if I can end with my .975 prediction score intact.

haha, same#2. I love speculating, fandom should be fun fun fun! And forums are here as place to talk and exchange ideas, as crazy as they could be. Sometimes frustration get in the way, but we're just human. Sorry if anyone felt offended  by my posts. No intention there.  

[Velocity23]

7 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Same. I want to see if I can end with my .975 prediction score intact.

What about the hat from last season? 

[way2interested]

So....the press release comes out tonight. Since they normally try not to spoil things in the descriptions, I wonder how they'll try to describe what's going on. I guess that means we'll probably at least find out what the other characters are doing (Diggle, Felicity, Rory) are doing during the road trip?

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, way2interested said:

So....the press release comes out tonight. Since they normally try not to spoil things in the descriptions, I wonder how they'll try to describe what's going on. I guess that means we'll probably at least find out what the other characters are doing (Diggle, Felicity, Rory) are doing during the road trip?

That's what I'm hoping. And probably something about Chase, perhaps connected to Diggle? Maybe also something flashback-related, especially since 511 should be leading into the Bratva stuff in 512 (and I still think that's the episode Oliver's getting his tattoo). 

[LeighAn]

Is 5x11 Talias big episode that Stephen was talking up?

In hoping 5x11 might be like 4x20 where it was choose your own adventure: Oliver and Felicity at the Casino, Thea in Stepfordville, Diggle in Andy revenge mode.

[way2interested]

Just now, LeighAn said:

Is 5x11 Talias big episode that Stephen was talking up?

In hoping 5x11 might be like 4x20 where it was choose your own adventure: Oliver and Felicity at the Casino, Thea in Stepfordville, Diggle in Andy revenge mode.

Yeah, now that I'm thinking about it, that might be what the description will focus on, like: TALIA AL GHUL APPEARS IN RUSSIA and then like btw Oliver and company go on a trip and Diggle and Felicity still exist.

Sounds like being like 420 might be how it might go, Oliver plot/Diggle plot (unless Diggle is actually on the trip)/Felicity plot/flashbacks/possibly Thea and Lance plot (especially if Diggle is on the trip)

[HighHopes]

1 hour ago, LeighAn said:

When has Oliver EVER been written as a playboy except briefly in the first five episodes of season 1 and then only as an act to cover up his vigilante dealings.

In present time he has had two sexual encounters one with a serious ex girlfriend and one with Isobel , which was mainly used to make Felicity jealous and Oliver guilty to open the can of worms on their underlying feelings for one another.

Other then that he dated and had relationships with three other women two in season 1 and one in season 5 and one serious and committed relationship with Felicity that and after  a season off him being voluntarily celibate.

Don Draper was a playboy Chuck Bass was a play boy Damon was a playboy all characters that would get their rocks off with random girls with zero remorse for sexual pleasure over emotional attachment.

That is not how Oliver has been written or demonstrated as.

I'm not sure what to you mean about "in present time Oliver has had two sexual encounters" because that's not exactly correct if we are taking about post-island. Post-island he's slept with Helena, McKenna, Laurel, Isabel, Sara, and Felicity (and possibly Susan). And yes, six/seven women in 4.5 years doesn't be exactly make a playboy in real life, but this is television.

Amell himself said that he wanted to explore Oliver's playboy ways again this season. So yes, Oliver has been, and is being written as a playboy. 

Edited January 12, 2017 by HighHopes

[Midnight Lullaby]

OT but every time someone mentions "Chase" I think about Chase the dj..I can't keep the names of the new people straight this year LOL

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Guys, this is NOT being excellent to each other.   Take a deep breath before you hit Reply.   

We're getting really close to a 24 hour thread cool down.   

[dtissagirl]

5 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

OT but every time someone mentions "Chase" I think about Chase the dj..I can't keep the names of the new people straight this year LOL

I'm impressed that you actually remember the name of the DJ. :)

[insomniadreams88]

5 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Yeah, now that I'm thinking about it, that might be what the description will focus on, like: TALIA AL GHUL APPEARS IN RUSSIA and then like btw Oliver and company go on a trip and Diggle and Felicity still exist.

Sounds like being like 420 might be how it might go, Oliver plot/Diggle plot (unless Diggle is actually on the trip)/Felicity plot/flashbacks/possibly Thea and Lance plot (especially if Diggle is on the trip)

I hope we get Felicity/Thea/Lance/Rory scenes (or some combinations of those four) while the guys are on their road trip.

I'm assuming that 511 is going to be the episode where Diggle's innocence is proven (since he seems to be going to Russia in 512), so he might not get scenes with the others until the end? 

Bring on Talia. She's definitely a new character I'm very interested in seeing on screen. I wonder if 511 will just introduce her and we'll get more of her in 512? 

2 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

OT but every time someone mentions "Chase" I think about Chase the dj..I can't keep the names of the new people straight this year LOL

Oh wow, I always forget that DJ was a character that actually existed. Thea has not had much luck LI-wise, has she? (Which reminds me that I couldn't tell if Alex was dead or not last season.) 

3 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

Amell himself said that he wanted to explore Oliver's playboy ways again this season. So yes, Oliver has been, and is being written as a playboy. 

I thought he said that if they wanted Oliver to be a playboy, they needed to write him as one. But maybe I'm remembering a different interview? 

[Carrie Ann]

11 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

I'm not sure what to you mean about "in present time Oliver has had two sexual encounters" because that's not exactly correct if we are taking about post-island. Post-island he's slept with Helena, McKenna, Laurel, Isabel, Sara, and Felicity (and possibly Susan). And yes, six/seven women in 4.5 years doesn't be exactly make a playboy in real life, but this is television.

Amell himself said that he wanted to explore Oliver's playboy ways again this season. So yes, Oliver has been, and is being written as a playboy. 

Everyone can interpret what qualifies a character as a "playboy" in their own way, I suppose. But in terms of what Stephen actually said in that interview (which I think was since taken down, but whenever it appeared, I quoted the relevant bit in this thread, I believe), it was something very close to this: "I told the writers that there are two things we have to stop saying about Oliver. One, we have to stop calling him a billionaire. He lost his money in Season 2. Second, we have to stop calling him a playboy. He's been with two women in three seasons [something to this effect, Amell's math may have been off as usual]. If you want to write him as a playboy, then by all means, but..." And then he hinted at Susan and their exciting dynamic or whathaveyou. The way it sounded to me was pre-defensive of Oliver as *not* being a playboy just for (eventually) sleeping with a new woman after Felicity, when prior to that, he hadn't been with anyone since Sara in S2. Just my interpretation, and you may take Stephen's dudebro "by all means!" as a literal request, but that's not how it sounded to me in that interview.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Carrie Ann

[way2interested]

Just now, insomniadreams88 said:

I hope we get Felicity/Thea/Lance/Rory scenes (or some combinations of those four) while the guys are on their road trip.

I'm assuming that 511 is going to be the episode where Diggle's innocence is proven (since he seems to be going to Russia in 512), so he might not get scenes with the others until the end? 

Bring on Talia. She's definitely a new character I'm very interested in seeing on screen. I wonder if 511 will just introduce her and we'll get more of her in 512? 

Yeah, I think ultimately it would be Oliver plot/Diggle plot/Felicity plot, but I would hope Thea and Lance would be part of Felicity's because I'm honestly baffled at what they could possibly be doing, especially since at this point they might not even be in 510 for all I know.

Reddit spoilers have Talia's into in 510, so I'm thinking 511 is more of her episode, but I think she's going to carry over. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

9 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I'm impressed that you actually remember the name of the DJ. :)

I don't know why but it stuck with me, hahaha. Every time someone says "Chase" I complete it with "the dj!" in my mind. Maybe knowing what's the last name of the new guy might help.

[Starfish35]

6 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I don't know why but it stuck with me, hahaha. Every time someone says "Chase" I complete it with "the dj!" in my mind. Maybe knowing what's the last name of the new guy might help.

Actually I think Chase is the last name of the new guy, isn't it?  Isn't it Adrian Chase?

[bijoux]

24 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

I'm not sure what to you mean about "in present time Oliver has had two sexual encounters" because that's not exactly correct if we are taking about post-island. Post-island he's slept with Helena, McKenna, Laurel, Isabel, Sara, and Felicity (and possibly Susan). And yes, six/seven women in 4.5 years doesn't be exactly make a playboy in real life, but this is television.

I think @LeighAn meant two one time hook-ups, which were Laurel and Isabel. She listed the other women he was involved with, but those were relationships.

[Midnight Lullaby]

2 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Actually I think Chase is the last name of the new guy, isn't it?  Isn't it Adrian Chase?

I'm laughing at myself at the moment, LMAO. You are absolutely right.

I think pre island Oliver was a playboy. Post island Oliver tries to make a relationship work with any woman that is interested in him. (Any woman but Laurel I mean.)

[wonderwall]

36 minutes ago, MuuMuuChainsmoker said:

Guys, this is NOT being excellent to each other.   Take a deep breath before you hit Reply.   

We're getting really close to a 24 hour thread cool down.   

I actually would not mind this lol