Spoiler Discussion Thread

[wonderwall]

LOL that interview confirmed a few things for me...

1. They never thought BC was the problem - KC was. I mean they killed her off, are blowing up her statue, and are bringing in a new BC that may be a meta human. God they must've hated KC.
2. The interview made it seem like the whole new BC thing was mandated by DC & CW for whatever reason considering GB/WM are using the same rhetoric. You can't have GA without BC. Which also confirms to me that CW/DC gave killing LL the greenlight while also mandating the show bring in a new one. Goes to show just how much the network deemed LL a failure. 
3. Basically - all this confirms to me that the network/EPs got rid of KC the first chance they got

Just... LOL!

Edited January 11, 2017 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

They can now do whatever they want this season, ratings be damned because they don't have to worry about renewal.

I don't think they were worrying about being renewed - despite the commentary on TPTB worrying about lower ratings, they never really did change any talking points, or change their tune about any perceived unpopular storylines. They're still pushing Mad Dog and the newbies, still not talking favorably about O/F and giving interviews about Oliver and Susan's real feels, so...I think that whatever we wind up getting at the end of the season is probably going to be close to what they planned on doing anyway. 

[Chaser]

If they want Black Canary to get a SM boost then Tina needs to be Felicitys best friend and Olicity's biggest fan. Get a group with some trending power.

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, wonderwall said:

LOL that interview confirmed a few things for me...

1. They never thought BC was the problem - KC was. I mean they killed her off, are blowing up her statue, and are bringing in a new BC that may be a meta human. God they must've hated KC.
2. The interview made it seem like the whole new BC thing was mandated by DC & CW for whatever reason considering GB/WM are using the exact same rhetoric. You can't have GA without BC. Which also confirms to me that CW/DC gave killing LL the greenlight while also mandating the show bring in a new one. Goes to show just how much the network deemed LL a failure. 
3. Basically - all this confirms to me that the network/EPs got rid of KC the first chance they got

Just... LOL!

Which is fine with me but just own up to it. Say things werent working out instead of playing the "we love her, shes part of the family" blah blah blah

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

Which is fine with me but just own up to it. Say things werent working out instead of playing the "we love her, shes part of the family" blah blah blah

Why would they do that? It admits a failure on their part and hers - this way (if you don't read between the lines), everything seems amicable for both parties. 

Edited January 11, 2017 by apinknightmare

[LeighAn]

5 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

With them getting a season six already, what is really stopping them from not putting O/F back together this season (or at all?). They have a guaranteed 23+ more episodes. I am really expecting Oliver/Reporter for a few episodes and then some Oliver/Tina flirting with a potential hook-up and no O/F reunion for this season. They can now do whatever they want this season, ratings be damned because they don't have to worry about renewal.

Again this comes down to the CW stalling their popular couple not being done with their popular couple. They are not blind or oblivious to the fact that Olicity gets them attention far more then anything else in the show and I'd argue Olicity gets the most attention out of anything flarrowverse. 

They have openly used Olicity to market the show and DVDs, they sent their lead star to collect an MTV award for the couple and had their marketing head tweeting out congrats Olicity making innocuous shipper lists. They have demonstrated enough that they understand Olicitys value.

But they also think the moonlighting curse is an actual living breathing boogeyman. So IF they pursue Tina/Oliver it will just be part of that stall or worst case a love triangle unless Tina and Toliver can emulate and then some the same level of popularity Felicity and Olicity bring to the show.

[wonderwall]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

Which is fine with me but just own up to it. Say things werent working out instead of playing the "we love her, shes part of the family" blah blah blah

I mean... If they talked shit about her what would that achieve? It'd just make a mess.

[lemotomato]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

If they want Black Canary to get a SM boost then Tina needs to be Felicitys best friend and Olicity's biggest fan. Get a group with some trending power.

This makes sense to me, since they tried to get the audience to accept LL as BC in season 3 the same way-- by having Felicity tell LL she had "a light inside" her and having LL tell Felicity that Oliver was lucky to have her. 

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

Why would they do that? It admits a failure on their part and hers - this way (if you don't read between the lines), everything seems amicable for both parties. 

Cause it's boring. They can be upfront while being sugar coating things. "it didn't work out" They wouldnt be the first show to get rid of a big character (Charmed) and not try to play the overly nice game. 

2 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I mean... If they talked shit about her what would that achieve? It'd just make a mess.

It's already a mess

[Mellowyellow]

Question: Was Sarah a popular  BC with the dudebros? Why did they kill her?

Are your dudebros like our bogans? We don't have dudebros but we have lots of bogans.

[LeighAn]

6 minutes ago, Chaser said:

If they want Black Canary to get a SM boost then Tina needs to be Felicitys best friend and Olicity's biggest fan. Get a group with some trending power.

Use her as meta statement I say. Black Canary and Felicity Smoak friends for life - now can't you fanbases just get along? Haha

[LeighAn]

4 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

This makes sense to me, since they tried to get the audience to accept LL as BC in season 3 the same way-- by having Felicity tell LL she had "a light inside" her and having LL tell Felicity that Oliver was lucky to have her. 

Felicity pretty much is always used as the seal of approval for new supes. Funnily enough Rory is probably the least hated of the newbies and he's the one that has also had the most emotional attachment or connection to Felicity where Wild Dog has had the least. Food for thought.

[lemotomato]

11 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Which is fine with me but just own up to it. Say things werent working out instead of playing the "we love her, shes part of the family" blah blah blah

If KC had good enough lawyers to force them to give her a deal to bring her back when they clearly didn't want to, what makes you think she wouldn't have included a clause that said they couldn't say anything negative about her or even imply she was fired?

[statsgirl]

Almost I can find it in my heart to feel sorry for MG and WM.  LL/KC fans are going to hate them, Olicity fans are getting fed up and angry.  Almost but not quite.

2 hours ago, Trini said:

If they wanted to be rid of Laurel/Cassidy they could have just sent her off to another city.

But it sounds like DC/CW wants an active Black Canary for their BTS reason.  Sending Laurel to another city wouldn't have accomplished that.

2 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

(And she will have to romance SOMEBODY. No way they bring on someone that attractive and keep her platonic for her whole run.)

I vote for Vigilante if he's still around i.e. not dead yet. Think of it, both so much physical and active, both sworn to up hold the law but both so impatient with it.

2 hours ago, Chaser said:

If the mandate is just to include her, than I'm not seeing her playing a big role. The show has struggled to include BC for seasons, I can't see the EPs wanting to try this again.

I think it depends how much DC wants them to push her.  If she's successful as a character, I can see her replacing Wild Dog as the #1 super duper new character.  If she isn't, she can remain in the background as a sex symbol in her tight black leather for however long they need to have her own.

The problem with Dinah Laurel Lance was that she is an important comic book character and fans weren't going to allow her to remain in the background, no matter how much she failed in the foreground.  Tina Boland doesn't come with that baggage.

Edited January 11, 2017 by statsgirl

[wonderwall]

6 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

It's already a mess

Is it though? All I've seen is how the network/EPs don't dislike KC because they brought her back. IDK what they'll say after 510 though...

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, wonderwall said:

Is it though? All I've seen is how the network/EPs don't dislike KC because they brought her back. IDK what they'll say after 510 though...

The show bts in general. They have been messy with fans the entire year. 

[AyChihuahua]

7 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Question: Was Sarah a popular  BC with the dudebros? Why did they kill her?

Are your dudebros like our bogans? We don't have dudebros but we have lots of bogans.

I think most people except hardcore LL/KC stans liked her until the lunge. BUT, even with the lunge ratings were, I think, overall higher than they are now? 

JH is also overall hotter (which is NOT a rip on CL, who is lovely) and if it's a DC/WB mandate, which I have always thought it is, ratings just matter less. 

[Chaser]

I'm still hoping that JH liking that tweet about Felicity's upcoming story means that she is apart of it in some way. I would like Tina to be involved with Lady Cop/China White/Cupid (if that's Felicity's Team). It would be a nice nod to Gotham Sirens (if that is what BC is being brought on for). Lots of ifs.

[wonderwall]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

The show bts in general. They have been messy with fans the entire year. 

Not everyone pays as much attention to BTS as us. So if they outright say that it didn't work out or they weren't fans of KCs portrayal, that would shine a spotlight for everyone to see. IDK why anyone would want that. 

But yes, I agree the show in general has been messy with fans the entire year. 

[AyChihuahua]

2 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I vote for Vigilante if he still around i.e. not dead yet. Think of it, so much alive, both sworn to up hold the law but both so impatient with it.

Yeah, I'm staying mostly out of the who's she gonna bang discussion here, BUT that'd work for this season and could be cool. Presumably he won't last into next, but it seems likely that she will, but maybe they'll introduce somebody new for her if she sticks. 

[LeighAn]

4 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 

I vote for Vigilante if he still around i.e. not dead yet. Think of it, so much alive, both sworn to up hold the law but both so impatient with it.

I didn't think about Chase. And he's a series regular too! Viginary? BlackVigilante? New ship!

5 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I'm still hoping that JH liking that tweet about Felicity's upcoming story means that she is apart of it in some way. I would like Tina to be involved with Lady Cop/China White/Cupid (if that's Felicity's Team). It would be a nice nod to Gotham Sirens (if that is what BC is being brought on for). Lots of ifs.

Actually That could work if Tina wants Pronetheus as badly because he's tied to her own demons and Felicity uses that commonality to motivate her into helping her. Good theory.

[Sakura12]

17 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Question: Was Sarah a popular  BC with the dudebros? Why did they kill her?

Are your dudebros like our bogans? We don't have dudebros but we have lots of bogans.

I think even with Sara getting in-between Olicity, she was still more liked than Laurel. And I think if they had gotten rid of Laurel (not killed, just sent her away) in Season 2. Sara would've been accepted as Black Canary. I'm going to have go with Sara was killed because KC's lawyers came after everyone. 

However I am glad she's off of Arrow because she's gets to grow as a character and now be the leader of her own team of heroes. 

Edited January 11, 2017 by Sakura12

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

If KC had good enough lawyers to force them to give her a deal to bring her back when they clearly didn't want to, what makes you think she wouldn't have included a clause that said they couldn't say anything negative about her or even imply she was fired?

IF there was actual drama it's very easy to say "We wish her well, she will be missed" and to let put out a statement "Decided to move on to other projects, they will always be family" and we never see her on the show again. 

[Angel12d]

IDK, doesn't this kind of prove that there was drama though? I mean, they're bringing on a new BC even though it's possible and plausible in this universe to bring LL back from the dead if they really wanted to. IMO that strongly implies that they wanted KC gone.

I do think the EP's have been messy as hell this season though and shouldn't have led LL fans on. It's pretty cruel tbh. They could've been more straightforward. Yikes to it all. 

Edited January 11, 2017 by Angel12d

[Chaser]

7 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

IF there was actual drama it's very easy to say "We wish her well, she will be missed" and to let put out a statement "Decided to move on to other projects, they will always be family" and we never see her on the show again. 

Just cause I'm curious, since you don't believe the drama, how do you explain everything?

Edited January 11, 2017 by Chaser

[MaisyDaisy]

I can't even stomach many panels because of the spin and arse kissing that goes on. I too would wish they would be honest, but I think that MG has been as upfront as he can be, or as wise as it's to be, when KC is all lawyered up and ready to use them.

[Mellowyellow]

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

 

I do think the EP's have been messy as hell this season though and shouldn't have led LL fans on. It's pretty cruel tbh. They could've been more straightforward. Yikes to it all. 

The whole LL mess is what makes me dread what it'll be like for Olicity fans if they do kill Olicity but won't fully admit to it. It's nasty!

We'll get crappy scenes stringing us along and maybe a 200 episode hallucination wedding. Yikes!

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

Just cause I'm curious, sense you don't believe the drama, how do you explain everything?

I can see them thinking that Laurel the character didnt work out since they never wanted to get their shit together and they wanted to get people talking so they killed her off. And it's entirely plausible that Katie/MG didnt get along, I just don't think there was like DRAMA, like Shannen Doherty vs. everyone on 90210. 

[Sunshine]

Never mind.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Sunshine

[MaisyDaisy]

I think it's pretty obvious that MG really really dislikes her. I have been thinking since season 2 that writing choices for LL reflected that dislike.

As to the rest getting along with her or any drama? Who knows? It's like people thinking they know what's going on in SA's marriage, when it's all hearsay, rumor and biased wishful thinking.

i have seen screen shots of some pretty shit tweets KC has made then deleted about co stars, as well as some  crap stuff in interviews, but if she is so bad, why do EBR and CH go on holidays with her? And isn't CL close to her too?

i think the BTS would be juicy, but there is so much bullshit flying around, who is to know the truth?

[Trisha]

46 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I don't think they were worrying about being renewed - despite the commentary on TPTB worrying about lower ratings, they never really did change any talking points, or change their tune about any perceived unpopular storylines. 

Agreed. I think this week's Crazy Ex-Girlfriend renewal means we can take ratings completely out of the equation when speculating on Arrow's future. CEG is averaging a 0.2 demo and less than 600k live viewers and it is now the lowest rated broadcast show to ever be renewed because the network just DOESN'T CARE about ratings. They care about the Netflix deal and streaming and annual 4-way crossovers that get them EW covers. 

Edited January 11, 2017 by Trisha

[Chaser]

6 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I can see them thinking that Laurel the character didnt work out since they never wanted to get their shit together and they wanted to get people talking so they killed her off. And it's entirely plausible that Katie/MG didnt get along, I just don't think there was like DRAMA, like Shannen Doherty vs. everyone on 90210. 

So you don't put any credence in the Paps (a few different ones) saying she was a problem for the cast and crew or think her behavior at Cons (showing up hours late, last min cancellations) could have carried over unto set? 

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, MaisyDaisy said:

I think it's pretty obvious that MG really really dislikes her. I have been thinking since season 2 that writing choices for LL reflected that dislike.

As to the rest getting along with her or any drama? Who knows? It's like people thinking they know what's going on in SA's marriage, when it's all hearsay, rumor and biased wishful thinking.

i have seen screen shots of some pretty shit tweets KC has made then deleted about co stars, as well as some  crap stuff in interviews, but if she is so bad, why do EBR and CH go on holidays with her? And isn't CL close to her too?

i think the BTS would be juicy, but there is so much bullshit flying around, who is to know the truth?

She lives with Caity Lotz.

Colton isnt doing anything right now, he should go ahead and write a tell all and add it to his website. Get it some traction.

[AyChihuahua]

Take it for what it's worth, which is nearly zero, but I heard that she caused delays bc she demanded a lot of extra time to do action stuff that she wasn't capable of doing. So she'd hold up production and then not even be able to do it in the end.

As always I say, as a fellow uncoordinated person, I GET being uncoordinated, but you also need to own it. IMO it was her absolute inability to do even simple stunts (seriously, she could not even land a decent stunt punch) as BC that finally got all parties (except her, obvs) on board with letting her go. 

Whether that qualifies as "drama" I leave to others. 

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, Chaser said:

So you don't put any credence in the Paps (a few different ones) saying she was a problem for the cast and crew or think her behavior at Cons (showing up hours late, last min cancellations) could have carried over unto set? 

If she was a problem for the cast, I don't think 99% of them would hang with her outside of work. I surely don't waste my time on those kind of people at work let alone in my personal life. Her con behavior could carry over to the show, do I think it was big enough though to get her fired? No.

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

If she was a problem for the cast, I don't think 99% of them would hang with her outside of work. I surely don't waste my time on those kind of people at work let alone in my personal life. Her con behavior could carry over to the show, do I think it was big enough though to get her fired? No.

Naya/Lea from Glee hung out off set - worked out together - all the time. And only recently we learned that the entire time they hated each other... So I don't think them hanging out off set is exactly proof that they're all friends tbh.

[Sakura12]

As much as I see people saying KC and CL are such great friends, I don't see many pics of them just hanging out all that much. CL seems to hang out with Candice Patton the most out of the cast of the Flarrowverse. CP was at her birthday, KC was not. I basically think the roomie situation with CL and KC is, CL just offered KC a place to stay when she in Vancouver. I'm sure they are friendly but I don't think they are great friends or anything close to "sisters". 

Edited January 11, 2017 by Sakura12

[Morrigan2575]

4 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Agreed. I think this week's Crazy Ex-Girlfriend renewal means we can take ratings completely out of the equation when speculating on Arrow's future. CEG is averaging a 0.2 demo and less than 600k live viewers and it is now the lowest rated broadcast show to ever be renewed because the network just DOESN'T CARE about ratings. They care about the Netflix deal and streaming and annual 4-way crossovers that get them EW covers. 

Crazy Ex and Jane The Virgin get renewed because they've received Golden Globe nominations and awards. That is priceless to the CW, a network that is still mocked for being the tween channel. 

[Chaser]

In the real world? Absolutely. In Showbiz? Idk. Didn't that Glee admit her public 'friendship' with her costar was bullshit? 

I'm pretty showing up late and possibly not showing up at all is a really good reason to fire someone.

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, wonderwall said:

Naya/Lea from Glee hung out off set - worked out together - all the time. And only recently we learned that the entire time they hated each other... So I don't think them hanging out off set is exactly proof that they're all friends tbh.

They didnt hate each other the entire time. Naya stated clearly that as Santana got more screen time, they friendship crumbled. By season 5 they were basically associates.

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Crazy Ex and Jane The Virgin get renewed because they've received Golden Globe nominations and awards. That is priceless to the CW, a network that is still mocked for being the tween channel. 

Yeah, they didn't get another win this year but both were once again nominated and that counts.  

[Primal Slayer]

3 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

As much as I see people saying KC and CL are such great friends, I don't see many pics of them just hanging out all that much. CL seems to hang out with Candice Patton the most out of the cast of the Flarrowverse. CP was at her birthday, KC was not. I basically think the roomie situation with CL and KC is, CL just offered KC a place to stay when she in Vancouver. I'm sure they are friendly but I don't think they are great friends or anything close to "sisters". 

You don't offer someone your personal living space if you arent close. You don't refer to them as your sister if you arent close. The whole point of great friendships is that you dont have to see them everyday, when you see them you pick up right where you left offf.

You also dont try to "steal the limelight" if you arent friends with the person.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Primal Slayer

[wonderwall]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

They didnt hate each other the entire time. Naya stated clearly that as Santana got more screen time, they friendship crumbled. By season 5 they were basically associates.

IIRC - Santana started getting more screentime in season 2, and back then while I was still (shamefully) in that fandom, we still got photos of them hanging out and stuff when they weren't exactly friends. They weren't enemies at that point but I wouldn't call them friends either.

Meh anyways... Unless someone writes a tell all - we won't exactly know. I'm gonna just stick to what we hear from the crew/paps for now

Edited January 11, 2017 by wonderwall

[Primal Slayer]

5 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

IIRC - Santana started getting more screentime in season 2, and back then while I was still (shamefully) in that fandom, we still got photos of them hanging out and stuff when they weren't exactly friends. They weren't enemies at that point but I wouldn't call them friends either.

I highly doubt it was an automatic thing. Naya got more screentime at one minute = Lea dropped her like a fly. Their friendship deteriorated and you could tell with them hanging out less and less and not even taking the time to acknowledge each other in the later years.

“On top of that, she had a hard time separating work from our outside friendship, whereas it was a lot easier for me. I’m not offended when people offer feedback or criticism, and if things get heated on set, I try to keep perspective. We’re all stressed, yes, but we’re all working toward the same goal, so laugh it off and keep it movin’. Lea was a lot more sensitive, though, and it seemed like she blamed me for anything and everything that went wrong.”

Even re-reading the line it doesnt come off as an instant thing. 

Edited January 11, 2017 by Primal Slayer

[LeighAn]

I wouldn't mistake Marc hating LL fans with Marc hating Katie. I don't think he or any of the EPs have ever given an impression one way or the other. They've said the same glowing things about Katie that they've said about other cast members but I do think Marc's comment about representation was a little enlightening. 

I don't know if Katie was fired but she was at the very least demoted and how the EPs felt about her and her characters may have been at odds with how the people who worked with her everyday felt. As in production people.

As for cast I think Emily and Caity do genuinely have friendship with her. That being said David and Stephen have said some pretty perceived shady and pointed things in relation to Katie. And there's been incidents where Katie has said and done some pretty perceived shady things about the cast. Her mother basically was trashing talking Stephen and Emily on her Twitter account. So it's not a huge stretch to imagine the cast like all work places probably had some up and down tension where sometimes they got along enjoyed each other's company and sometimes got pissed off.

[Starfish35]

49 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I guess I just don't see why BC needs to be on Arrow. If Sara takes her name back a liked BC would still be in the Arrow verse. Plus I liked BC better when she wasn't with GA in the comics. Their relationship was toxic.

I know it would be a scheduling thing, but Sara would gladly help Oliver when he asks. 

46 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I agree. I just don't get it. Give it to Sara, maybe write a couple of episodes where Sara shows up on Arrow + the big crossover. In between Sara gets to lead her team and Oliver has his.

This would definitely have been my preference, and you all know I've thrown several tantrums about it.  But it sounds like the mandate (for whatever reason) was a BC on Arrow, and I'd rather see Sara on LoT.  Ideally she would have been the BC leading her own team, but apparently that's just not going to happen.  :(  Plus, I guess, since I haven't been watching, I've gotten rather resigned to the whole mess.  I'm still going to bristle if they end up presenting her as better than Sara, but otherwise....*sigh*  Ship implications aside, another female character in the 'verse is not necessarily a bad thing.  

The big question it brings up to me, though, is when did the writers know that they would have to bring in a new BC? After or before they killed off Laurel?  Were they planning it last season, or did it come up this summer, forcing the writers to change their plans? 

I don't know.  It's all very odd.

[Mellowyellow]

What is EBR like? No one seems to say much about her.

She seems really airy fairy on instagram (I don't mean that in a mean way. She just seems like she's off with the pixies)

[JJ928]

Late to this convo, & I'm indifferent to KC and never cared for LL. That said, whether rumors of her being difficult are true or not, I feel like the bigger problem would be MG. That man gives me such bad vibes, and not just him AK & GB as well. Also, SA has always seemed petty and let's face it, he hasn't always been nice about KC/LL. Hell, this past year he has't been too nice about FS, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was a diva bts. I kinda get the vibe that maybe this set isn't all too friendly for women. But that just may be my active imagination lol. 

Oh, and Caity actually lives in KC's condo. My understanding is that she sold her LA place & bought that one in Van after Arrow got picked up. It's probably why she's sometimes in Van, even if she's not filming.

Edited January 11, 2017 by JJ928

[wonderwall]

I genuinely feel bad for Juliana Harkavy. She has quite an uphill battle especially if her character isn't Felicity's friend or in any way connected to her. 

• LL fans will hate her because she's basically a meta which LL fans begged for, for years. Also because Tina is taking over LL's role on the show... Which tbh wasn't that big of a role but whatever
• Olicity fans will be wary of her/dislike her because of the whole GA/BC 4EVA! thing
• Sara Lance fans will likely dislike her because they wanted Sara to be BC and not some random woman

That's a LOT of hurdles to jump... And with these writers? LOL. Good luck.

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Crazy Ex and Jane The Virgin get renewed because they've received Golden Globe nominations and awards. That is priceless to the CW, a network that is still mocked for being the tween channel. 

Those were bad examples, but the argument is solid. The network generally doesn't seem to care all that much about ratings, and Pedowitz even mentioned in an article posted today that being able to "cross-pollinate" the DC shows was important to them. The Warner Bros CEO also mentioned in that article that the CW was a "very important strategic outlet" for them wrt DC properties. It's near impossible that the EPs were sitting around waiting to figure out where this season was going to end pending renewal. I would bet they knew they had it and have known for some time now, and what we're gonna see at the end of 5 is what they planned to give us from the get-go.