S17.E06: Maternal Instincts

[psychoticstate]

I'm halfway through this episode and I can't understand how Rollins hasn't been fired.  Rollins knows exactly the type of girl her sister is, and she knew that there was no way her sister was coming in voluntarily.  She actively hid evidence in violation of her position.  S If the cops could have found her hooker sister and probably gotten the truth out of her, and not ever have charged the guy with rape (I feel like involuntary intoxication would be a defense).  

 

I realize the flute player is an ass for cheating on his wife, but that doesn't mean he should have to deal with being charged with a crime he shouldn't have been charged with because Rollins wanted to play happy family with someone she KNOWS damn well is unstable and has no problems breaking the law and running away.   

 

Agree.  To all of it.

 

I was disappointed the show moved forward with charging the flute player with rape.  I felt terrible for the woman that was raped but I felt Kim should have been charged with it.  If not for her drugging the guy, he never would have done that.   He didn't have the intent to rape, he didn't remember any of it and everyone remarked that he was clearly out of it on the video.

 

And why does everyone seem to fall under her spell?  She's vile.  She's not that seductive or charming or remotely smart. 

 

I knew she wouldn't but I was hoping that Amanda would pull out her service revolver and shoot the bitch in the leg as she was walking away laughing.  It's not like Amanda would get into trouble or anything . . .

[Jaded]

I know I'm alone in this, but I miss Stabler, Munch and Cragen.

I miss Cragen and Munch. As for Stabler I miss the version from the earlier years and not the rage machine he became in his later seasons.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Favorable Dodds
The squad's new sergeant gets a crash course in SVU's special brand of Taking! It! Personally!

[Xantar]

No, I was thinking of that group also. And there's also a group of female violinists that was touring not long ago, but I cannot remember their name.

 

 

You might be thinking of Bond. Or alternatively Escala.

 

I think it was a big mistake to end this episode where it was instead of seeing it through to trial (and hopefully conviction). I especially hated the implication that Kim somehow wrapped the lawyer around her finger and got him to fall in love with her. How stupid is he to fall for that? He actually seemed pretty smart and good at his job.

 

I would actually have enjoyed this episode perfectly well if it had ended with Kim getting her comeuppance. Sadly, I think the writers aren't going to be able to leave well enough alone and will come back to her next year.

[GarnetGirl]

Kim is my least favorite SVU relative ever. And that's saying a lot considering Stabler's kids and Olivia's half brother.

[cooksdelight]

Olivia's brother doesn't bother me nearly as much as Kim does. Or Rollins' mother.

[torqy]

People sometimes complain about lazy writing, and to me, Mama Rollins is just a thinly disguised Bunny from Chicago PD with bad Botox job.

What blows my mind is that I remember Virginia Madsen playing one of Frasier's many girlfriends. Then I'm reminded that was 16 years ago.

 

The musical act was a little like Electric Light Orchestra meets Jethro Tull. (If you are old enough to get that, condolences.)

[The Mighty Peanut]

There are times I am frustrated with a character and forgive them. There are times I want a character to go away. There are times when I want a character to die but feel a bit guilty because they aren't all bad. There are times I want a character to die and don't feel guilty. There are times when I want them to die BADLY, etc.

Kim is the first character I want to personally murder. Don't tag me, FBI, this is a strictly imaginary homicide. But she has gotta GTFO.

Edited October 24, 2015 by The Mighty Peanut

[briochetwist]

There are times I am frustrated with a character and forgive them. There are times I want a character to go away. There are times when I want a character to die but feel a bit guilty because they aren't all bad. There are times I want a character to die and don't feel guilty. There are times when I want them to die BADLY, etc.

Kim is the first character I want to personally murder. Don't tag me, FBI, this is a strictly imaginary homicide. But she has gotta GTFO.

I agree completely, but could she also take her sister with her?  I hate pretty much everything about Amanda Rollins.

[MorbidPet]

I agree completely, but could she also take her sister with her?  I hate pretty much everything about Amanda Rollins.

Don't you dare touch my boo! With Nick gone she's my everything on SVU!! And Kelli Giddish is such an amazing actress and seems to be such a sweetheart. If you could get Chase back on the telly though I'd swap her & shows in a heartbeat, Annie Frost was such a badass & those writers at least knew continuity

[briochetwist]

Don't you dare touch my boo! With Nick gone she's my everything on SVU!! And Kelli Giddish is such an amazing actress and seems to be such a sweetheart. If you could get Chase back on the telly though I'd swap her & shows in a heartbeat, Annie Frost was such a badass & those writers at least knew continuity

Well, sorry...but I hate her.  A lot.  I'm sure Kelli Giddish is a lovely person, but the character of Amanda Rollins bugs the crap out of me.  Not only is she a dirty cop, but she tends not to believe a disturbingly large amount of the victims, gets herself involved with some pretty scummy people who end up in their investigations, and then there's the all the crap and drama with her family.  How she is still employed by the NYPD I cannot fathom.

 

I did like Nick though. 

[RCharter]

I agree completely, but could she also take her sister with her?  I hate pretty much everything about Amanda Rollins.

me too, there are moments when I can stand her, but they are overshadowed and eclipsed by the times when I'm just completely over her.

 

Her demands to be kept on the case, and attempting to go up to the pimp's apartment after her basically ruining the entire case by covering for her sister were annoying to me.  Like, really bitch?  You did everything wrong and now you're gonna put a stank look on your face when your told you can't be a part of the case?

 

AND AREN'T YOU ON DESK DUTY ROLLINS??????  GO AWAY!!!!

Edited October 24, 2015 by RCharter

[briochetwist]

 

Her demands to be kept on the case, and attempting to go up to the pimp's apartment after her basically ruining the entire case by covering for her sister were annoying to me.  Like, really bitch?  You did everything wrong and now you're gonna put a stank look on your face when your told you can't be a part of the case?

 

AND AREN'T YOU ON DESK DUTY ROLLINS??????  GO AWAY!!!!

Yup.  How about never accepting that she should be on desk duty, and then when she lets Kim just waltz away at the cafe, tells Liv, "What was I supposed to do?  I couldn't chase after her?"

 

THAT'S why you should be on desk duty. Dumbass.

[The Mighty Peanut]

I don't hate Rollins but when Kim revealed everything she had snitched about regarding her sister I didn't feel the sense of rage I think I was supposed to feel. I was pretty much like wow, she really is a hot mess, and then remembered the time she tried to provoke Amaro into hitting her to prove SVU Ray Rice was justified in knocking out his wife.

[MorbidPet]

Well, sorry...but I hate her.  A lot.  I'm sure Kelli Giddish is a lovely person, but the character of Amanda Rollins bugs the crap out of me.  Not only is she a dirty cop, but she tends not to believe a disturbingly large amount of the victims, gets herself involved with some pretty scummy people who end up in their investigations, and then there's the all the crap and drama with her family.  How she is still employed by the NYPD I cannot fathom.

12 seasons of watching Benson & Stabler break the law has sorta made me numb to cops breaking the law on SVU. Neither one of them should still be working for the NYPD, and I guess one isn't. And Liv then let a killer walk free, & lied on the stand.

I love Amanda & that she's flawed! And she's a survivor! She makes for great drama & I wouldn't watch SVU without her.

[AntiBeeSpray]

Couldn't agree more!  How does this woman still have a job?  I couldn't figure out how she didn't end up in jail when she chose to be a dirty cop as a way to get out from under her gambling debts.  Sure, Declan was undercover, but she didn't know that when she started giving them information.  Now this?  Enough.  Worst cop ever. 

 

I know I'm alone in this, but I miss Stabler, Munch and Cragen.

 

You're not alone. I miss them too :(.

[krimimimi]

[Amanda's] demands to be kept on the case, and attempting to go up to the pimp's apartment after her basically ruining the entire case by covering for her sister were annoying to me.  Like, really bitch?  You did everything wrong and now you're gonna put a stank look on your face when your told you can't be a part of the case?

 

AND AREN'T YOU ON DESK DUTY ROLLINS??????  GO AWAY!!!!

Well to be fair, I'm pretty sure that was Amanda's apartment the dude was bleeding out on the floor in, so I could understand her coming along for the ride.

 

Nightmare momma Rollins thoroughly betrayed Amanda's trust repeatedly by allowing a wanted fugitive (Kim) into her daughter's apartment, which is where Kim stored(!) and was retrieving the money from her ill gotten gains when the pimp somehow caught up with her. She probably invited him over and set him up. It's a specialty of hers. Wonder if she took out life insurance on him, too? At least she did her own dirty work this time.

 

That's why the other cops took the keys off Amanda and went up without her. It's not like they could even send Amanda home at that point, because once again, her home is the crime scene. That they're investigating. That case was more than a little screwed from the outset no matter what they did. And Kim's info dump at the end highlighted all of that quite nicely.

 

Here's hoping Kim gets shivved. Amanda's apartment will thank them for it - it honestly can't take any more of her. Much like the viewership.

Edited October 25, 2015 by krimimimi

[RCharter]

Well to be fair, I'm pretty sure that was Amanda's apartment the dude was bleeding out on the floor in, so I could understand her coming along for the ride.

 

Nightmare momma Rollins thoroughly betrayed Amanda's trust repeatedly by allowing a wanted fugitive (Kim) into her daughter's apartment, which is where Kim stored(!) and was retrieving the money from her ill gotten gains when the pimp somehow caught up with her. She probably invited him over and set him up. It's a specialty of hers. Wonder if she took out life insurance on him, too? At least she did her own dirty work this time.

 

That's why the other cops took the keys off Amanda and went up without her. It's not like they could even send Amanda home at that point, because once again, her home is the crime scene. That they're investigating. That case was more than a little screwed from the outset no matter what they did. And Kim's info dump at the end highlighted all of that quite nicely.

 

Here's hoping Kim gets shivved. Amanda's apartment will thank them for it - it honestly can't take any more of her. Much like the viewership.

I didn't realize it was Amanda's apartment -- but regardless, her attitude about the entire thing bothers me.  Amanda ruined the entire case,and now wants to make faces and throw attitude when she can't go into the apartment?  No, at this point she should still be feeling shitty for ruining the case and covering for her sister.  The pimp is yet another person (albeit a bad one) who is the victim of Amanda's selfish incompetence and boobery.  Appropriate reaction should still be shame and embarrassment -- not stank face attitude.  If Special Victims is a plum assignment Rollins needs to have her baby and get moved to some traffic ticket writing detail. 

[LibertarianSlut]

Did anyone recognize the actress who played Kim from an episode of Criminal Minds, Anonymous, last season? She played a recovered addict, and had the same trailer trash look to her there too.

[Feline Queen]

No, I was thinking of that group also. And there's also a group of female violinists that was touring not long ago, but I cannot remember their name.

Rollins .... Standing there with her mouth open most of the episode, she looked like a hungry fish. I was really hoping her sister had gotten murdered somewhere, but nooooo.....

Virginia Madsen, I couldn't figure out who that sort-of familiar face was.

The band you're thinking of is called Bond.

[Joimiaroxeu]

How she is still employed by the NYPD I cannot fathom.

Not to slut shame but I think the reason may be that Amanda has made momentary FWBs right up the management ladder. Her record's probably too messy for it to help her much promotion-wise but I bet if her immediate bosses tried to fire her she could make some key phone calls and get that action stopped pretty quickly. I still think it's hilarious that no one was very surprised about her being pregnant. (But that could be because they assumed it was Nick's kid.)

Edited October 26, 2015 by Joimiaroxeu

[MorbidPet]

Not to slut shame but I think the reason may be that Amanda has made momentary FWBs right up the management ladder. Her record's probably too messy for it to help her much promotion-wise but I bet if her immediate bosses tried to fire her she could make some key phone calls and get that action stopped pretty quickly. I still think it's hilarious that no one was very surprised about her being pregnant. (But that could be because they assumed it was Nick's kid.)

Actually nothing we know about her back this up. From what little the writers has given us about her background it actually proves the opposite. She told Reese in the episode Forgiving Rollins that the slut rumors about her back in Atlanta wasn't true, her captain Sam had spread rumors after Amanda shot him down (I suspect this was the scene we got in S13E22 Strange Beauty when Sam tried to kiss her but she reminded him he was married, he tells her he's separated, he says something about there being something between them but she ends up faking getting a call, goes outside & spots the girl screaming for help in the back of a cab) and that it was never anything of substance between them is later proved by Sam himself as he corners Amanda walking Frannie and he says that awful line about not giving her old pal Sam anything but "keeping herself wide eyed and wet for the chief" (I'm happy she kicked him in the nuts but Frannie should've got a bite in as well and preferable removed a ball or two!). In that same episode Amanda tells Fin she was Patton's golden girl just like Reese but that everything was fine to begin with up until he calls her in to his office and tells her they can settle her sister's charges. She agrees to meet him but when she changes her mind and says no he goes on to rape her. This was not some FWB to climb the latter, this was her trying to keep her sister out of jail.

We don't really know exactly when she gets raped but she was probably forced to work with Patton for a while before her transfer goes through but she does tell Olivia in S13E8 Educated Guess that something happened that sorta made her have to get out of Atlanta so I don't think we are talking years but more months which still must've been just awful having to go to work seeing his smug grin & keeping that awful secret. She doesn't deal with her rape and by her own account (in S13E14 Home Invasion) her gambling goes out of control first after she comes to NY so one could suspect this is also a consequence of her not dealing with her rape. Obviously we don't know exactly what goes on in her head, & thanks to the writers we don't know much at all, but in my mind there's no doubt that offering Murphy sexual favors to get out of that jam in S15E17 Gambler's Fallacy would've never come to her mind if not for the fact she's a rape victim (since she hasn't dealt with it I see her more as a victim than a survivor at this point) & although traumatic she got Kim out of trouble last time, why not try it again? She's already damaged so she might not think one more time would be such a big deal but she is obviously disturbed over what she's about to do and it is one of the most painful scenes I've ever seen on SVU & that is saying a lot as we've seen some gruesome stuff on this show.

And she's already slept with Nate in the previous episode - another scene/act worth discussing as in her mind she might've felt empowered in that situation, being able to toss the money back at him after she felt like she used him, but we the viewers saw something completely different. Many might've thought slut but for me it was just another proof of how damaged and what poor self-esteem she has, and how yet again she was used, or even let herself be used.

We've seen her in two sexual relationships over four years, now adding Murphy to the count, so 3 dudes in five years. We don't know how things got started with Amaro so that will be all speculations. Nate duped her though, big time. Murphy was the one that pointed out her blindspot for men in power and Nate, as her sponsor, had some power over her for sure. Her getting with Murphy after what went down in Gambler's Fallacy, him being her boss at one point and as mentioned Murphy being the one to confront her about her blindspot makes that a seriously f-ed up twosome, and to mess things up even further they made a baby that weekend. It looks as though the writers is trying to smooth this over as nothing but I call that BS. It is obviously not a good thing for Amanda to get with a former boss after being raped by Patton.

Sorry for the long post but I just can't agree with what you wrote. & I get very prickly when I hear anything that sounds like slut shaming as I find that despicable. Nothing points to Amanda doing any FWBs to advance her position. Quite the opposite. She didn't do things easy for Cragen and she's constantly on odds ends with Liv.

 

With all that being said though it doesn't give her the right to do a poor job. She swore an oath to withhold the law & she serves the public so she needs to do better. I can understand from what little we know about her childhood that she feels a need to protect her family. Kim (not that we can trust much that comes out of her mouth) spoke of an abusive childhood and she told Amaro about that squirrel gun incident when Amanda was just a kid so it seems as though she's been forced to protect her family by any means necessary from a very young age, something a child should never have to do. And not even when trying to protect her sister ended up getting her raped did she stop. Maybe even triggered her to do more to keep her sis out of jail so that her getting raped wouldn't end up being for nothing. Her family will never appreciate what she does though so she's better off giving them up. With everything she's been through though I can see her with less judgmental eyes. Even though Amanda can't have compassion for herself (as Liv pointed out) I can and I don't think there's anything she can do that will stop my admiration for her, flaws and all.

And as I wrote in another post above everyone on this squad, the exception being Carisi but I think his time will come as this is SVU after all, has done something illegal. I will give newnewguy the benefit of the doubt though as his Stabler 3.0 threat might've just been an attempt to show off in front of his new boss.

[Joimiaroxeu]

proof of how damaged and what poor self-esteem she has, and how yet again she was used, or even let herself be used.

I agree with this 100%. The way she couldn't deal very well with Mama Rollins or Kim in this episode added to the evidence of how she's apparently suffered (and still suffers) some serious emotional abuse within her family.

 

We've seen her in two sexual relationships over four years, now adding Murphy to the count, so 3 dudes in five years.

The key being those are the only ones we've been shown. I sincerely doubt she's been living such a relatively chaste life and since this isn't the Amanda Rollins show it stands to reason we wouldn't have seen all her relationships. I'd surmise that someone with her looks and youth in NYC would be fighting the men off, plus gambling couldn't have been taking up all her free time.

 

I get very prickly when I hear anything that sounds like slut shaming as I find that despicable.

I was half-joking and wasn't slut-shaming even though it may have read that way. Amanda is a grown woman and is free to conduct her sexual life any way she wants, AFAIC. More power to her. I was simply speculating on how/why she's managed not get fired with all the messy and borderline criminal stuff in her professional history. Others can offer their own theories.

[FormerMod-a1]

If Benson and Stabler never lost their jobs, with all the crap they pulled, Amanda sure ain't going to lose hers.  What she's done is so small potatoes compared to them..

[Calamity Jane]

When Kim said "he had it coming" did anyone else think of Chicago? Just me? OK.

 

He had it coming, he had it coming, he only had himself to blaaaame

My daughter started singing that song just then!!

[wknt3]

Couldn't agree more!  How does this woman still have a job?  I couldn't figure out how she didn't end up in jail when she chose to be a dirty cop as a way to get out from under her gambling debts.  Sure, Declan was undercover, but she didn't know that when she started giving them information.  Now this?  Enough.  Worst cop ever. 

 

I know I'm alone in this, but I miss Stabler, Munch and Cragen.

 

 

I miss Cragen and Munch. As for Stabler I miss the version from the earlier years and not the rage machine he became in his later seasons.

 

I miss the actors and what the characters started out as more than what he characters ended up as before they left, with the possible exception of Munch. I especially miss Cragen and think his departure did the most damage to the show. As hard as they tried to destroy his character and his status as an authority figure in the later years, they need someone filling the CO role to make the plots and the character dynamics work.

[slowpoked]

 

Oh Virginia Madsen, why did you mess with that gorgeous face?

You know what's sad? Two days before this episode, I just saw Sideways on HBO. Virginia was effortlessly gorgeous in that movie.

 

And so I can't believe they actually cast her as Mama Rollins. I mean, how old is Amanda supposed to be? Doesn't Virginia seem to be too young to have someone in their 30s (I'm assuming that's how old Rollins is). Or maybe they really messed up her face to make it look like she's older than she's supposed to and it's totally believable that she's Mama Rollins.

[Monkeybball]

MorbidPet- wow, I never thought of that. The idea that the reason for Amanda's rape, the real reason, was that she was trying (yet again!) to get her sister out of trouble. I'm sure that does a lot to her thinking when it comes to trying to HELP Kim. I saw a quote recently: "Stop holding onto a mistake just because you spent a long time making it." That reminds me of this. Very insightful post.

I did not recognize Virginia Madsen at all.

[MorbidPet]

The key being those are the only ones we've been shown. I sincerely doubt she's been living such a relatively chaste life and since this isn't the Amanda Rollins show it stands to reason we wouldn't have seen all her relationships. I'd surmise that someone with her looks and youth in NYC would be fighting the men off, plus gambling couldn't have been taking up all her free time.

 

I was half-joking and wasn't slut-shaming even though it may have read that way. Amanda is a grown woman and is free to conduct her sexual life any way she wants, AFAIC. More power to her. I was simply speculating on how/why she's managed not get fired with all the messy and borderline criminal stuff in her professional history. Others can offer their own theories.

It's only right to "judge" her on what we've seen & know though. If she's able to have a functional sexlife after her rape I say good for her! I'm not sure she is as over the rape as she likes to pretend she is though (or that the writers want us to think, not for a second do I buy 2 weeks at a yoga retreat can "cure" you) as the relationship she had with Nate surely was dysfunctional, Fin was right to say she shouldn't have a male sponsor & she surely shouldn't sleep with said sponsor. And I'm not so sure Nick was a good thing either. Being with him might have felt safe. Bedding Murphy sure as hell wasn't a good idea in my eyes. Not with her/their past. 

 

And no worries about the slut shaming, you put it in the original post that wasn't what you intended to do. I don't mind people disliking her character, I just want to set the record straight about what we know about her sexual history on the show & I've seen a lot of slut shaming around the web and I find that both incorrect and also, as I wrote despicable. From my experience girls/women with "that" reputation usually comes from a rather dark place and the slutshaming probably is the last thing they need. And also (as you wrote as well), women should be able to do whatever they feel like sexually. I highly doubt that if Amanda's character was male instead not many would even raise an eyebrow at the things she's done, and that's not fair. 

 

MorbidPet- wow, I never thought of that. The idea that the reason for Amanda's rape, the real reason, was that she was trying (yet again!) to get her sister out of trouble. I'm sure that does a lot to her thinking when it comes to trying to HELP Kim. I saw a quote recently: "Stop holding onto a mistake just because you spent a long time making it." That reminds me of this. Very insightful post.

I know I tend to overanalyze, well actually most things in my life but for sure the things I care about. And I know I'm way too invested in some TV characters but I still get mindblown when I read things on the web like "Wait, what she's pregnant?" and other things that for me should be obvious as I pretty much stalk everything this show, but I can't really blame any viewer for missing the fact she was raped or what led up to her rape as the writers only dealt with it in that one episode (Forgiving Rollins) and if you're not a fan of personal drama on SVU then it may not have been an episode you paid much attention to.

But Amanda told both Fin and then later on Barba as she was getting prepped for the testimony she was never allowed to give, that Patton did in fact call her in to his office one day and gave her a "chance" to make her sister's charges go away. She should've obviously turned him down and filed charges on his ass but from what little we know about their childhood it does seem she had to step up for both her mom and sister all her life and when she finally decided enough was enough she was already in that room with him and yes she was raped.

So she's been raped b/c of her sister, and even though it's hard to compare, I think killing someone was probably not harder than being raped but it is two major sacrifices she's done for her sister so to see Kim still not making it to the straight and narrow must be incredibly hard for her. It's always easy to see it from a distance but when you're right in the middle of that it must be extremely hard so I can't really judge her too hard for not being able to see her family with clear eyes. With Kim in jail I can only hope she will finally be able to let her go and deal with the trauma she's been put through, and also put herself through. Your quote is pretty much perfect for her :)

[Princess Lucky]

So she's been raped b/c of her sister, and even though it's hard to compare, I think killing someone was probably not harder than being raped but it is two major sacrifices she's done for her sister so to see Kim still not making it to the straight and narrow must be incredibly hard for her. It's always easy to see it from a distance but when you're right in the middle of that it must be extremely hard so I can't really judge her too hard for not being able to see her family with clear eyes. With Kim in jail I can only hope she will finally be able to let her go and deal with the trauma she's been put through, and also put herself through. Your quote is pretty much perfect for her :)

I agree, this is how Rollins has lived her life until now, but things have changed for her. That's why I was disappointed to see that Rollins still tried to cover for her sister even now. I hoped the baby would give her the wake-up call she needs, I hoped she'd realize that she should stay away from Kim from now on. Amanda does need help with the baby, and writing-wise it was convenient to show that Amanda tried to cover for Kim again just to appease her mom, i.e. a glorified babysitter.

 

Still, I find the whole mom thing to be a huge plot contrivance. I doubt Rollins has ever had to rely on anyone else for anything, certainly nothing as huge. And I doubt she decided to have the baby thinking "I can't do it on my own, but I can count on my semi-drunken mess of a mother". So, again, the baby should have Amanda running in the other direction, not still chasing after Kim and trying to help her.

 

Basically, I agree and understand that it's hard for Rollins to shake her lifelong habits (in more ways than one), and her trauma makes her less likely to stand up to her family, but something like having a baby as a single mother would be great incentive. Also, I find it annoying that Amanda was basically cut off by her mother. I'd much rather see Rollins ditching her mom after, like, a nasty drawn-out fight. She'd still be in a jam with the kid, and there would still be drama, but Rollins wouldn't be a passive spectator again. Mama Rollins got a million good digs in, and Rollins just swooned. Kim effectively threatened Rollins, and Rollins just frowned. Like, do something, girl.

 

But then, it seems that when Amanda does something it's never for her own good. So maybe it's for the best. At least the mom's out of the picture, even if she came out on top (if you will). Amanda is better off. Fin and Carisi can babysit.

[Monkeybball]

I dunno I might be alone in this but I kind of want to see Amanda and Murphy give a relationship a try. It would be nice to see her in a functional relationship, even if I don't love the personal lives interfering with the show thing. Maybe I just love Donal Logue too much. Something about the way he looked at her and was talking to her when he came back a couple episodes ago....IT GAVE ME FEELS! Stupid Gotham.

[CelticBlackCat]

I dunno I might be alone in this but I kind of want to see Amanda and Murphy give a relationship a try. It would be nice to see her in a functional relationship, even if I don't love the personal lives interfering with the show thing. Maybe I just love Donal Logue too much. Something about the way he looked at her and was talking to her when he came back a couple episodes ago....IT GAVE ME FEELS! Stupid Gotham.

You are not alone.  I feel the same way.  I believe they must give a relationship a try because (1) every baby needs his or her father; (2) I personally don't think Murphy is going to want to be a non-participating bio dad; (3) Amanda needs stability, not swimming in an ocean with her wacko mother and sister the only "family" she has to count on (whom she obviously cannot count on); and Amanda and Declan are hot together, IMO.

[Joimiaroxeu]

I highly doubt that if Amanda's character was male instead not many would even raise an eyebrow at the things she's done, and that's not fair.

Perhaps. I will say this though, if her baby had turned out to be Amaro's I would have been throwing plenty of shade at him. Three kids by three different women, two of which he's never been married to? Yes, that's a kinda old-fashioned perspective in this day and age but I imagine if Amanda had three kids by three different baby daddies there'd be people calling her all kinds of garden utensils. What's good for the goose...

 

I dunno I might be alone in this but I kind of want to see Amanda and Murphy give a relationship a try.

Is there a real chance of this happening? What about the actor's role on that other show? Whatever, I wouldn't be opposed to it. If nothing else the baby deserves the kind of stability and security that might come with being raised by both parents. Amanda's fairly tough but being a single mother may test her already-strained coping skills.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Joimiaroxeu

[Anahita]

I Personally don't see any long term romantic relationship between Declan and amanda, they will be Friends and Co-parents at best but not lovers. the show does not focus on relationships and donal logue is already committed to gotham, he will only popup once in a while to play the dad. additionally A relationship won't work because declan is always undercover. although it would be nice if they give us a flashback of february because I want to know why they slept together. I never thought these two saw eachother in *that way* so  did they have sex in a moment of weakness and murphy actually thought it was a good idea? i'm hoping that the makers will add some insight to this new relationship and not just leave it up to assumptions like they did with the rollins-amaro storyline.

[SparedTurkey]

 

(1) every baby needs his or her father;

Oh please. A baby needs one loving parent. Any more is a bonus, gender be damned. I'd rather see Finn become a parental figure - because the relationship is there and it would be funny - rather than damn another male character for 'political reasons'. Or because Rollins slept with the father. Hell. Amanda can do it alone - if Olivia can with all her baggage what stops her?

 

Course, after this episode, Rollins should just give away any idea of getting anyone from Altanta to help her.

 

And yeah, if Olivia and Stabler were never fired - or Amaro - there is no way she should be.

[Noirprncess]

If Amanda still has a job by the end of this season, I think I'm going to tap out.

This episode underscored the reasons why Amanda needs to fired. Her vices are bad enough but this is not the first time her sister has involved her in behavior that's fireable. Pls let them wrap this storyline up quickly.

[WendyCR72]

I'm all for discussion, but the topic seems to have veered more from the episode itself to Amanda Rollins and how great or horrible she is.

 

Let's get back to keeping it in context and what happened within the episode alone.

 

Thanks!

[Packerbrewerbadger]

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Packerbrewerbadger

A minute ago

I also wished they would have consentrated on rape case , I found that very interesting . Did anyone notice how the flutist was eying the victim during the musical number? And did the drugs enable him to act on those feelings? But going naked thru halls??? I would really like more closure on the case --- but with as less as the sister as possible!

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[CelticBlackCat]

The rape case:  I thought it was mentioned that the flute-playing Russian guy tested negative for drugs.  Therefore, his allegation that the bar pickup chick drugged him would be bogus.  Maybe he has somnambulism, which caused him to act bizarrely (running naked through the halls) and commit a crime (raping the violinist).  He did pay attention to the first violinist (turned rape vic) onstage but I thought it was part of the act or that he was paying more attention to her because she was in the role of first violinist in the ensemble of Belladonna.

 

Unless the bloodwork they did on the flutist/perp was inaccurate for some reason, he couldn't have been drugged.  Remember, this is the same outfit who is going to have to re-do all the autopsies done by creepy medical examiner!  So anything is possible.

[Princess Lucky]

The rape case:  I thought it was mentioned that the flute-playing Russian guy tested negative for drugs.  Therefore, his allegation that the bar pickup chick drugged him would be bogus.  Maybe he has somnambulism, which caused him to act bizarrely (running naked through the halls) and commit a crime (raping the violinist).  He did pay attention to the first violinist (turned rape vic) onstage but I thought it was part of the act or that he was paying more attention to her because she was in the role of first violinist in the ensemble of Belladonna.

 

Unless the bloodwork they did on the flutist/perp was inaccurate for some reason, he couldn't have been drugged.  Remember, this is the same outfit who is going to have to re-do all the autopsies done by creepy medical examiner!  So anything is possible.

I wish they had clarified that more. I thought he may have been telling the truth and the drugs had already gotten out of his system, but I don't know if that's possible with the specific drugs Kim allegedly used. They could have added a throwaway line to explain. Instead they totally glossed over all that. This could have made a separate SVU episode by itself (though it sounds familiar, so they may have already done it, except I can't recall a specific episode).

[RCharter]

I wish they had clarified that more. I thought he may have been telling the truth and the drugs had already gotten out of his system, but I don't know if that's possible with the specific drugs Kim allegedly used. They could have added a throwaway line to explain. Instead they totally glossed over all that. This could have made a separate SVU episode by itself (though it sounds familiar, so they may have already done it, except I can't recall a specific episode).

I think the drugs being out of his system would be more likely.  They got to him the next day from what I could see.  Kim leaves him sleeping at night in the room, at some point he gets up and rapes the violinist.  She reports the rape, but it was probably the next day before they got to him, because he thought they were there about the missing flute.  Than they had to take him to the station, no pee test, because they had no idea about his story.  By the time he would have told them he thought he was drugged it could have been at least 12-18 hours from the actual drugging to the moment they could have tested him.  I imagine some drugs could be out of your system before then.  In fact, I thought it was generally tough to test for roofies because they got out of your system so fast.

[CelticBlackCat]

After doing some online sleuthing, the date rape drugs apparently do not stay in one's system for long; 72 hours is the longest.  RCharter's synopsis of this is a good explanation of the discrepancy I saw.  Thanks!

[Dale Griffin]

Kim needs to die.  Enough said.

 

Well, not quite enough.  Rollins's mother needs to die, too.

 

So far, I like Dodds.  The new one, that is.  He appears competent and seems nice enough.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Dale Griffin

[LeGrandElephant]

I wish they had concentrated more on the rape case. I thought it was way more interesting, and there was a lot they left unaddressed. I think I remember an old SVU episode where some guy raped his girlfriend's sister in his sleep and they also pretty much dropped it with no discussion of the morality involved, and moved on with another crime in that episode. There's a lot to discuss about a case where someone commits a crime like rape but may have been asleep or unwillingly drugged at the time; they shouldn't bring it up if they aren't going to discuss it. 

 

Also, any idea what drugs could realistically make him act like that? I thought roofies pretty much knocked you out? Maybe Ambien or similar - I think their ads warn of doing things like driving a car while asleep, and of changes in sexual behavior. 

 

It was weird that they set it up like the guy really had been completely out of it when committing the rape, and then just charged him anyway and dropped the plot thread. 

[krimimimi]

I wish they had concentrated more on the rape case. I thought it was way more interesting, and there was a lot they left unaddressed. I think I remember an old SVU episode where some guy raped his girlfriend's sister in his sleep and they also pretty much dropped it with no discussion of the morality involved, and moved on with another crime in that episode. There's a lot to discuss about a case where someone commits a crime like rape but may have been asleep or unwillingly drugged at the time; they shouldn't bring it up if they aren't going to discuss it.

Also, any idea what drugs could realistically make him act like that? I thought roofies pretty much knocked you out? Maybe Ambien or similar - I think their ads warn of doing things like driving a car while asleep, and of changes in sexual behavior.

Something like Scopalamine would have been interesting. Basically in higher doses, it makes people highly vulnerable to suggestion/direction. (To the point where victims have cleaned out their apartments or bank accounts for the people who've dosed them and had no recollection thereof after the fact.) In addition to the story that I, too, wish they'd told about his guilt given (let's assume he was telling the truth) lack of volition, a drug like that would probably mean Kim more or less deliberately set him on that poor musician. And I think that is a much more interesting story as to how guilt is assigned.

[Princess Lucky]

I wish they had concentrated more on the rape case. I thought it was way more interesting, and there was a lot they left unaddressed. I think I remember an old SVU episode where some guy raped his girlfriend's sister in his sleep and they also pretty much dropped it with no discussion of the morality involved, and moved on with another crime in that episode. There's a lot to discuss about a case where someone commits a crime like rape but may have been asleep or unwillingly drugged at the time; they shouldn't bring it up if they aren't going to discuss it.

 

Yes! That's the episode I was thinking of. Where the guy was sleepwalking and "thought" he was sleeping with his own girlfriend because the sister didn't live with them normally, she was staying over or something, so he didn't "know"/"realise" what he was doing. And just as I try to put it in words, I realise how complicated that is. And, indeed, they didn't resolve that either.

 

They've had episodes about mentally ill rapists; I recall the one in which Stabler went blind for a minute, the one with that whole mess with Benson and Novak and Novak's schizophrenic ex boyfriend. I remember that Huang made several comments about the concept, about blame. But something like sleepwalking or being drugged, that would make for an interesting discussion and an even more interesting trial.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Princess Lucky

[whatsatool]

Why doesn't the violinist have groupies?

[PrincessEnnui]

Yes! That's the episode I was thinking of. Where the guy was sleepwalking and "thought" he was sleeping with his own girlfriend because the sister didn't live with them normally, she was staying over or something, so he didn't "know"/"realise" what he was doing. And just as I try to put it in words, I realise how complicated that is. And, indeed, they didn't resolve that either.

 

The guy who raped his girlfriend's sister had a medical condition that basically equated to one of the side effects of Lunesta/Ambien (not implying he was taking either of these), sleep sex. The only reason the case wasn't pursued was because he had a valid medical condition with proper proof of his condition and Casey(?) signed off on it. Benson and Stabler still wanted to go after the guy. 

[CelticBlackCat]

Violinists generally do not have groupies, and female musicians really don't have male groupies.  Female stars have dedicated fans, but they are not involved in the groupie scene.  There are not men lining up to "sleep with" or "service" or have other sexual encounters with female stars.  Autograph hounds, dedicated fans of the actual music or entertainment act, yes, but the groupie scene is a whole 'nother mindset that only relates to females adoring the males.

[webruce]

Sister Kim is one piece of work. I have been trying to catch up on SVU on Hulu. Poor Amanda don't need that now or anytime. And her Mom beth upset over Rollins picking the truth and justice over her screwed up sister, come on mom???? Both need psyche evals. Also strange Anton Kransnikov didn't remember raping Alessanda Bay. But maybe something will come out later and show Kim or someone else did drug him. Because it makes it look like alittle if you didn't see it like we did, that maybe she is misunderstood, lol. I feel bad Beth thinks it's ok for her hooker daughter to stab Slice her pimp in the nuts to protect herself after she stole his money. And it is a big stretch to think Anton gave Kim that expensive Flute to pawn, come on!!!! Now it sees she's making out with the lawyer Lorenzo Desappio, then if he gets her off, she will rob him and leave I bet. Or use his wealth and power(if he has some) to get what she wants. It will be interesting how this turns out.

I was surprised that Fin lied to Benson about what Rollins saw and was doing. I would expect it from Amaro(I miss him). Carisi continues to impress me too. At first he seemed like a cheesy ex car salesman to me. Or a 70's Italian tv cop. But he had definately impressed me.

Sgt Mike Dodd had an ok start. But I to would worry what JR is passing back to dad Dodd. William is not a fan of Amandas or was he of Amaro.