S04.E02: The Candidate

[kismet]

Last week I just wanted to be one of the smart kids that 6 months from now was right in predicting that LL is the one in the grave. I really had no desire for any main cast to be dead. However, the show has basically walked me to the edge and made me jump into the pool that actively wants her to be the one in the grave. It's been a gradually developing journey, but its now apparent to me that I just don't want her on my screen anymore.

 

I can't deal with how the writers are writing her. I can't be bothered to try to figure what is their intention, their bad writing, or their complete lack of a coherent vision for her. I also can't take KC's performances, because she is not helping me figure out what LL's motivations actually are. I'm sorry digging up your dead sister to throw her in a pit without thinking about the consequences or talking to someone about it first is ludicrous. And if they were playing her as mentally unstable, I could possibly get behind it. But they are playing it off like I'm supposed to think she's a big hero for wanting to help TQ, when really the minute she heard about the pit - you could almost see her starting the digging process.

 

I feel like this episode was my Hallway scene with LL. I'm done trying to understand her character. The LL I knew & liked in s1 is gone. And I can't be chasing her in & out of her poor decisions anymore. So yeah, I guess I might really want LL 6 ft under in 6 mo (which of course means now it won't happen).

[AyChihuahua]

 

ehh I think it is far more likely that he was holding back.

Why would he be holding back in a fight against Anarky with his sister right there and already electrocuted by Anarky?

[InsertWordHere]

I really liked Oliver's smile when Felicity was talking about codenames at the beginning of the episode. In my head, he's always been that amused by her, only now he can let his full blown Felicity smile show. 

ehh I think it is far more likely that he was holding back.

I think he was holding back too, plus he was surprised that she lost it that much, just like she beat him last season because he was surprised by her sudden ninja abilities (and also her obvious stunt double). 

 

Edit: I'm talking about the Thea/Oliver fight here, not the Anarky/Oliver/Thea fight, which Oliver totally should have won. I'm fanwanking that he's out of practice due to his Summer of Love. 

Edited October 15, 2015 by InsertWordHere

[AyChihuahua]

He was holding back against THEA, obviously.  But Lonny Machin both managed to outrun him after the assassination attempt, and whipped his butt later at that bar.  

[kismet]

On a positive note, I was not on board with the Queen for Mayor plot line. But after OQ balcony speech, I felt very inspired. I am now more behind this plot line. I think it will be a nice parallel to his night job. And if it means more daytime clothes stunt work d/t the nature of being essentially in the cross-hairs of just about every bad guy. Then sign me & that leather jacket up - we are reporting for duty ;)

[foreverevolving]

Why would he be holding back in a fight against Anarky with his sister right there and already electrocuted by Anarky?

I'm referring to the Thea/Oliver fight in the Liar.

 

@kismet I have one even better: Oliver in a suit... with or w/out suspenders!!

Edited October 15, 2015 by foreverevolving

[AyChihuahua]

I'm referring to the Thea/Oliver fight in the Liar.

Which was not my statement, which you quoted to respond to.

[Morrigan2575]

He was holding back against THEA, obviously. But Lonny Machin both managed to outrun him after the assassination attempt, and whipped his butt later at that bar.

That reminds me, another thing that bugged me in this episode. So now, not only can everyone in the freaking league catch Arrows but Triad/Mobster muscle can deflect Arrow? C'Mon Man!

[quarks]

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO @Quarks is going to have a hell of a time writing her "And now Laurel..." section of her comment :p

 

You know me so well.

[EmeraldArcher]

In an effort to calm down from my LL-induced rage:

1. I loved Olicity in this episode. So thankful to everyone here for talking me down from my 401 ledge last week--here's looking at you, BkWurm1, for your patience and diplomacy, and at you, AyChihuahua, for your stubborn refusal to understand my flawed thinking! I'm so glad it was clear that they're healthy, honest, supportive, and attuned to each other. My heart thrilled at Oliver giving Felicity a pep talk for once, and her needing and appreciating it. The #LoveFernLives and #PackedLoveLunch moments were adorable.

2. I loved Felicity's strength and integrity in her new role. I'm pretty sure that CEOs don't normally perform functions like firing people, but I appreciated Felicity's continued championing of that company's employees. She's been standing up for the employees since S1, when she was candidly critical of Robert closing the factory and finding loopholes to screw the newly unemployed people who had worked for him. A major motivation for her retrieving Oliver from Hell Island was to help save his company and the jobs of several thousand employees. I also loved her adorable "I get to be bossy today because I'm the boss" line to Oliver. And, I'm appreciating her more appropriate work clothes, although they still don't seem quite commensurate with her executive leadership role.

3. I really liked Curtis. He just seems real in a way Ray never did. Ray was too much of a caricature, but Curtis seems like a human being. Loved the casual mention of his husband--despite that awful LoA wedding fuck up last year, Arrow seems to usually treat its LGBT characters with dignity and respect.

4. I loved Oliver's stunts in street clothes. It evokes the best of S1. Nothing fancy, just a display of impressive athleticism and skill.

5. I continue to love the increased use of public spaces populated by Star City citizens. I'm glad there's a return to Oliver's connection to his city. S4 already seems like a bigger budget show than last season, with its rotation of very few sets and no extras.

6. I love DD! He's menacing and entertaining--"language!"

[catrox14]

I'm really really really annoyed with this not!Moira interloper. Then they have the nerve to actually have her invoke Moira's name as her inspiration for running for Mayor?  And then have Oliver stand there listening to her like he used to with Moira?

 

Awww hellll no. 

 

That really pissed me off

[foreverevolving]

I'm really really really annoyed with this not!Moira interloper. Then they have the nerve to actually have her invoke Moira's name as her inspiration for running for Mayor?  And then have Oliver stand there listening to her like he used to with Moira?

 

Awww hellll no. 

 

That really pissed me off

 

Which reminds me.. she said "two years since Moira died" not nearly but "two years.." details writers (how did SA not pick this one up?).. it's barely been a year and half!!!

 

Which was not my statement, which you quoted to respond to.

Oh.. I may have misread your post than. It's been a long day.

Edited October 15, 2015 by foreverevolving

[wonderwall]

You know me so well.

Face it, you and I are board buddies 4 lyf. Deal w/ it B)

[Primal Slayer]

I know how everyone loves stunt doubles lol, I got a good laugh out of Amells stunt double hiding his face during the chase scene.

[InsertWordHere]

Which was not my statement, which you quoted to respond to.

 

Oh.. I may have misread your post than. It's been a long day.

I misunderstood the post too, and I haven't had a long day. In fact, I've done nothing but sit around and read fanfic all day. Don't tell anyone :)

 

I'm really really really annoyed with this not!Moira interloper. Then they have the nerve to actually have her invoke Moira's name as her inspiration for running for Mayor?  And then have Oliver stand there listening to her like he used to with Moira?

It didn't annoy me, but it would have been better if the character had at least been namedropped sometime in the last three seasons. Where has this good friend of Moira's been this whole time? She wasn't there when her good friend was getting divorced or when her good friend was on trial or when her good friend was running for mayor nor was she mentioned as attending her good friend's funeral. I know it's tv, and the answer is that the character hadn't been invented yet and the actress hadn't been cast, but still. 

 

I know how everyone loves stunt doubles lol, I got a good laugh out of Amells stunt double hiding his face during the chase scene.

They don't really bother me that much, TBH, but I remembered the snark on the internets with regards to Thea's stunt double on the balcony last season so I couldn't resist bringing it up.

[AyChihuahua]

1. I loved Olicity in this episode. So thankful to everyone here for talking me down from my 401 ledge last week--here's looking at you, BkWurm1, for your patience and diplomacy, and at you, AyChihuahua, for your stubborn refusal to understand my flawed thinking! I'm so glad it was clear that they're healthy, honest, supportive, and attuned to each other. My heart thrilled at Oliver giving Felicity a pep talk for once, and her needing and appreciating it. The #LoveFernLives and #PackedLoveLunch moments were adorable.

 

You know, with this show they could have gone anywhere with Oliver's reactions to Felicity's actions, so I'm just glad they behaved believably.  Also, BkWurm1 is one of the nicest posters on these boards.  Even though she still likes Quentin, so she is obviously crazy.

[catrox14]

I know how everyone loves stunt doubles lol, I got a good laugh out of Amells stunt double hiding his face during the chase scene.

 

Which chase scene?

[foreverevolving]

Just some thoughts after tonight's https://twitter.com/hashtag/Arrow?src=hash: WHY I HATE LAUREL LANCE. http://t.co/QgVk3ci65P

— Melissa Ryan (@ms_melissaryan)

 

Edited October 15, 2015 by foreverevolving

[fantique]

Okay, my final thoughts for the episode and then I'm off, you beautiful people:

 

I think the writers have done Laurel and Thea a serious disservice here. They should have stretched this reveal out over two episodes and moved from there,  

This. It should have take way longer to reach this decision.

 

Laurel is to Diggle what Ray was to Felicity.

Ouch

[Primal Slayer]

Which chase scene?

When Oliver first encounters Anarky and ends up getting hit by a car and brushing it off.

[pivot]

Lordy, what dumbass thought a way to fix this show involved more screen time for the worst actor on the show. Why is Laurel is almost every damn scene? It's unbearable.

Loved Curtis. He and Felicity were adorable together and will bring some lightness to the show while we all suffer through Katie Cassidy's blank face and stilted acting. It does seem like they are bringing Laurel in to replace a lot of what Felicity would normally be doing in the lair. Not ok with that.

Love the idea of Oliver running for Mayor.

And next week, we get kickass Felicity. Yeah!

[fantique]

I'm really really really annoyed with this not!Moira interloper. Then they have the nerve to actually have her invoke Moira's name as her inspiration for running for Mayor?  And then have Oliver stand there listening to her like he used to with Moira?

 

Awww hellll no. 

 

That really pissed me off

I hope these dumb writers forever regret the decision to off Moira. I really do.

 

I don't want to add to the Laurel hate but when she said that carrying the burden alone of Sara's death made a mess of things, I was like "no, being a lying liar who lies and tells everyone and their mother except for her father is what made a mess". These writers...

Because I feel guilty.

Interestingly enough, for an episode that ended up being her hands down worst since season two, and arguably for the entire series, this started out on a positive note for Laurel. I don't know who took over her wardrobe, but once again, she looked great - best she's looked since season one. She had some great action moments - ok, that going down the rope shot out by the arrow was silly, but it looked pretty good. Her scene with Diggle was a genuine highlight for her character - after some pointless complaints about feeling hungry, which seems to be a television stakeout thing, she was - gasp - compassionate, understanding, and sensible.  She also, for a moment there, seemed genuinely compassionate about Thea.

I liked KC's acting during the H.I.V.E reveal scene, and they felt comfortable and therefore, after some handwaving, I could buy that they got close during the six months fighting together with Thea. Laurel didn't come off as self-centred or preachy but actually concerned with John's well being. Basically the opposite of how she is when Thea tells her about the LP. When she's not posturing or trying to be deep, she does genuine scenes well.

Edited October 15, 2015 by fantique

[benteen]

...plus...Laurel now reminds me of Barry. Oh god, risking lives and consequences be damned to save a family member who's been dead for far too long. My god. 

 

In fairness to Laurel, Barry is actually WORSE in this department because he finds the chance of universal destruction to be an acceptable risk.  Barry is actually a sociopath.

[apinknightmare]

In fairness to Laurel, Barry is actually WORSE in this department because he finds the chance of universal destruction to be an acceptable risk. Barry is actually a sociopath.

Yeah, Laurel is making terrible decisions, but they aren't Barry level terrible. Yet.

[mommalib]

Last season, I probably would have been fuming about the Laurel ridiculousness.  Now, I just laugh and laugh...and laugh!  I'm not sure if the writers hate her, or if they think we'll be all yay, thank you Laurel, for bringing Sara back or what.  I really have no idea why they write her like this, but I've reached the point where it just entertains me.

 

Just loved Oliver getting the blame for setting that dude on fire.  Obviously he's not going to say that his sister did it, but I'm so very sick of him accepting responsibility for everyone else's fuck-ups.

Its the blame Oliver show. Do the writers remember that he is the main character?

[Guest]

You know, they did set up some 'Felicity gets hurt' hints in this episode, especially when she said "Now a madman knows you work with a Felicity."

[jay741982]

You know, they did set up some 'Felicity gets hurt' hints in this episode, especially when she said "Now a madman knows you work with a Felicity."

As long as She doesn't die i can Live with that! I want to see pissed off ready to scorch the earth cause my woman was badly hurt by a psycho Oliver!

[EmeraldArcher]

I thought Oliver picking a fight with Thea was awesome! He did it in a way that wasn't punitive, but was respecting her place on the team. He wasn't treating her with caution, but I also think he was deliberately trying to provoke her in front of TA2.0. He watches Arrow and has learned that showing is always more powerful than telling. So, being frustrated by their refusal to listen to him about Thea, he takes the chance to show them had bad Thea is.

I thought it was weird that he didn't use his voice modulator before I realized DD's minion from the end of 401 must still be using it.

[quarks]

Regarding whether or not my reaction to Laurel in this episode is because I'm predisposed to hate her - well, maybe? I've certainly been one of her stronger critics. But part of this is because I find myself frequently dismayed by the way Arrow chooses to portray a woman professional who has been established as a workaholic. That's something I'd like to see done better, especially since, for all of the problems Arrow and Flash have had with their women characters, I do think both shows have shown that they are capable of doing better.  And I have liked Laurel in several scenes - even in this episode.

 

I'll also agree that Arrow has established that its characters will do anything for their sisters. I'm not against Laurel being willing to do anything to bring her sister back (slightly side-eyeing that she's only willing to do this for Sara, and not for Tommy, but let's move on for now.) I'm mostly against the problem that in this particular case, she's just been told and shown that the Lazarus Pits can have terrible effects. I know Laurel's most consistent trait is not thinking things through, but there's not thinking things through, and looking at someone who is going insane and wanting to have that same thing happen to her sister.

 

With that said, yeah, it's entirely possible that with a different character, I'd be cheerfully cheering on the batshit insanity of this - I mean, I was the one last season who cheerfully said that the Malcolm/Oliver teamup was the sort of batshit insanity Arrow specializes in that I wanted to see more of, so in general, digging up graves and carting bodies off to an evil candlelit fortress? LET'S GO WITH THIS. It's just that this wasn't just a gloriously over the top moment, but rather, a moment that re-established all of Laurel's worst qualities. Thus my reaction.

[statsgirl]

But it's already been established that Laurel will do whatever it takes to get the job done (e.g. hurting the man in the hospital bed) so she may not have thought that what was happening to Thea was so bad.  Thea lost it, sure, but she's a really effective fighter now.

 

What I want to know is how she made the leap from Thea being almost-dead and put in the Lazarus Pit to Sara being dead for a year and wanting to Pit her.

[writersblock51]

Long time since I've posted here.  As much as I enjoyed last week's premiere, there were enough parts of tonight's that bugged me.  Luckily, there was plenty to like as well.

 

What I liked:

- Oliver and Felicity behaving like responsible adults who respect and love each other.  They continue to seem very natural and happy with each other, no small feat when things around them are - in typical Arrow fashion - a mess

 

- meeting Curtis AND having his marriage mentioned so casually, as smoothly as anyone in a hetero marriage would comment

 

- Felicity as a very enthusiastic CEO then a more, eyes-opened one as the reality set in

 

- Thea - I think WH is doing a terrific job playing Thea on Edge and then pensive... I had assumed she knew about the pit, though, so it was a bit jarring to find out she hadn't known.  I'm glad Oliver told her because it clearly explains to an extent what's happening with her.  Now that she's more self aware, she knows WHY and hopefully can work on dealing it safely

 

- The stunts... Oliver running around, outside, felt very S1 and was a welcome sight. The hand to hand fights were pretty well done - unfortunately, either my eye sight is improving (which would be a great thing) or it's easier to Spot the Stunt Double

 

- Diggle talking to someone about HIVE (more on that in a bit)

 

- Oliver running for Mayor.  It's a shout out to the comics that will make some people happy.  I hadn't cared one way or the other but the way it's been set up?  I like it!

 

- the repeated shout out to code names for Felicity and Diggle.  Time to get that taken care of

 

 

What I didn't like:

 

- Season 1 Quentin.  I'm unclear why he's been helping Damien. I understand why he'd help him NOW since Laurel has been threatened but why was he working with him before?  And I'm so tired of him crapping on Oliver

 

- Instead of Oliver meeting up with Quentin, I think Diggle or Felicity should have gone.  Quentin is sooo anti-Oliver that anyone else may be a better delegate at this point

 

- What happened to Felicity being a tech genius?  Why are Cisco, Ray and now Curtis all touted as better than her in that area?  She's pretty much the smartest person in the room (though I know Mr. Terrific's comic history dictates that he is) yet she's relegated nowadays to doing hacking and searching

 

- Why did the show forget that Diggle and Felicity worked together in Season 1 on the HIVE investigation and Andy's death?  Why wouldn't Diggle talk to her and/or Lyla?   What on earth is the benefit of his confiding in Laurel?  Other than looping her into a secret that she can't do anything about, there is no reason for him to talk to her about any of this right now.  Or talk to her but also talk to Felicity and Oliver?

 

- Why haven't Diggle and Felicity spoken to each other besides her calling him "John" over the comms? 

 

- Laurel.  I was done with her in Season 1 and pretty much every episode since has merely confirmed, to me, that she's an utterly selfish, vile and despicable character.  If she ever cared for Thea, and I'd like to think she did in Season 1, then I saw no real evidence of that tonight.  Laurel has decided to manipulate Thea, who was mind controlled by Malcolm, to be a part of Sara's Resurrection. 

 

Do I understand Laurel's desire to bring her sister back?  Only sort of.  What I suspect more, though, is that Laurel feels guilty about Sara's death.  There was a hasty funeral (also in the middle of the night) and the parents didn't even know Sara had died.  She has absorbed her sister's identity in a way that seems unhealthy to me.  I do not buy that Laurel's motivation is because she loves Sara.  No, I think guilt is driving her all the way to Nanda Parbat. 

 

Her manipulation of Thea is flat out disgusting.  She may not know the details of how the pit works, or the risks, she's allegedly a smart person.  So she should be aware of a few key points:

1. Thea is having wicked side effects that are very worrying to Oliver
2. Thea went through hell and back in Nanda Parbat and just expressed a justified adversion to the Lazarus Pit
3. Thea killed Sara.  When Sara comes to, she's going to see Thea - who she will recognize as her killer
4. If Thea could be cured by the LPs effects, don't you think Malcolm or Oliver would have tried a cure?  Malcolm knew the unfathomable risks and had warned Oliver...
5. Malcolm can't be trusted. Laurel is dragging Thea with her as a bargaining chip, I'm sure of it
6. How are Laurel and Thea going to transport the body?  Do they even know how to get to Nanda Parbat?

 

I know they needed to bring Sara back for Legends of Tomorrow but holy sh*t - this was such an awful way to go about it.  And Laurel comes off as purely selfish and unstable, IMO.

 

I hope that Oliver gives her the brutal talk and other consequences once he finds out.  He sacrified himself to save Thea - and he doesn't trust Malcolm.  He will wonder if it was all for naught of Thea gets caught up in Ra's/LoA businees - or worse.

[nksarmi]

Regarding whether or not my reaction to Laurel in this episode is because I'm predisposed to hate her - well, maybe? I've certainly been one of her stronger critics. But part of this is because I find myself frequently dismayed by the way Arrow chooses to portray a woman professional who has been established as a workaholic. That's something I'd like to see done better, especially since, for all of the problems Arrow and Flash have had with their women characters, I do think both shows have shown that they are capable of doing better.  And I have liked Laurel in several scenes - even in this episode.

 

I'll also agree that Arrow has established that its characters will do anything for their sisters. I'm not against Laurel being willing to do anything to bring her sister back (slightly side-eyeing that she's only willing to do this for Sara, and not for Tommy, but let's move on for now.) I'm mostly against the problem that in this particular case, she's just been told and shown that the Lazarus Pits can have terrible effects. I know Laurel's most consistent trait is not thinking things through, but there's not thinking things through, and looking at someone who is going insane and wanting to have that same thing happen to her sister.

 

With that said, yeah, it's entirely possible that with a different character, I'd be cheerfully cheering on the batshit insanity of this - I mean, I was the one last season who cheerfully said that the Malcolm/Oliver teamup was the sort of batshit insanity Arrow specializes in that I wanted to see more of, so in general, digging up graves and carting bodies off to an evil candlelit fortress? LET'S GO WITH THIS. It's just that this wasn't just a gloriously over the top moment, but rather, a moment that re-established all of Laurel's worst qualities. Thus my reaction.

 

LOL the poor writers could have fixed all of this by waiting one more episode for this and showing Thea having nightmares of killing Sara for two episodes and then let Thea talk Laurel into the resurrection scheme.  That way Laurel remains the smartest dumb person on the show without the selfish, manipulative overtones I am choosing to ignore.

[foreverevolving]

In case anyone is wondering.. I searched twitter for Laurel Lance and the majority of posts from tonight are all Laurel Lance is a terrible person. I found two (maybe three) tweets how awesome she is.. one even said she was right in resurrecting Sara.

[TrueMyth]

Look, that's the one thing I enjoyed about that scene. If you're gonna dig up a grave, by god, be super neat about it!

Well, she's just thinking about her father.  I mean, think how upset Lance would be to find a gaping maw of torn earth the next time he visits the grave of his little girl to contemplate the threats made against his family.

 

Oh, wait.  Maybe the neat edges won't actually help in that case.

(This was from pages ago, but I couldn't not).

 

I actually really enjoyed the episode.  I love having Oliver working in the light, so I really think I'll love the Mayor plot line.  His rescue of Jessica was fabulous.  The line about "self-defense class" would only have been improved if he added "and paaaarkoooour!" as he jumped off the balcony.

 

It's so nice to have scenes with extras and bit parts beyond those being beat-up.

 

The trick with Laurel sliding down Oliver's rope arrow was rather awesome (though it does feel unearned, because when the hell do they practice that?).

[Racj82]

Laurel found out how to bring her sister back and she's going to do whatever she can to bring her back. I'm not really understanding the shock or anger. For this show, it seems pretty normal. And if she did find out about the pit and just gave a shoulder shrug, that would lead to outrage by others as well. She's the only one that would do it. Their dad wouldn't trust it and Oliver knows not to try it again. It was her or nothing. If Nyssa was going to do it, it would be done by now.

[yellowfred]

I feel like the writers could have made Laurel's plan seem significantly less horrible if they'd given Thea a moment of saying that she isn't completely mad at Oliver, because, in spite of the crazy, she'd still rather be alive.  As it was, it kind of read (to me) like Laurel was saying "Oliver did something selfish and reckless (which is terrible because that's totally my thing), so now I have to one-up him by doing the exact same thing, only worse."

 

Also, I really could have done without that last shot.  

[lemotomato]

- Why did the show forget that Diggle and Felicity worked together in Season 1 on the HIVE investigation and Andy's death?  Why wouldn't Diggle talk to her and/or Lyla?   What on earth is the benefit of his confiding in Laurel?  Other than looping her into a secret that she can't do anything about, there is no reason for him to talk to her about any of this right now.  Or talk to her but also talk to Felicity and Oliver?

Diggle and Felicity worked together to find Deadshot in season 1, but Digg didn't find out about the HIVE connection until season 2. And he presumably didn't tell anyone about it until now. As to why he's telling Laurel, it's because the HIVE reveal isn't actually about Diggle at all. It was actually brought up to remind everyone that Sara's dead and to set up Laurel's role in resurrecting her. Digg commiserates about keeping secrets about the death of a sibling, and she talks about what a terrible burden she had to carry. Cue the mention of the Lazarus Pits a couple scenes later. And of course Diggle essentially disappears for the rest of the episode.

 

"Year of Diggle" is not getting off to a very good start.

Edited October 15, 2015 by lemotomato

[nksarmi]

Laurel found out how to bring her sister back and she's going to do whatever she can to bring her back. I'm not really understanding the shock or anger. For this show, it seems pretty normal. And if she did find out about the pit and just gave a shoulder shrug, that would lead to outrage by others as well. She's the only one that would do it. Their dad wouldn't trust it and Oliver knows not to try it again. It was her or nothing. If Nyssa was going to do it, it would be done by now.

 

If I try giving these writers a break - which is hard for me to do after last season - I can imagine they might of thought that they needed to make it Laurel's idea and that she needed to do it without a second thought for fear that if she hesitated or even - lord forbid - fought another character not to do it that fans would say "See, Laurel really doesn't love her sister, she's glad she's dead, and she just doesn't want to give up her canary title that she stole from her, etc..."

 

So this might be a case of damned if they do, damned if they don't since they screwed up so bad last year with Sara's death and Laurel's transition into BC.  I mean, I think they could have had another character do it and then just had Laurel be ecstatic when she found out....but I suspect making it Laurel's idea is about trying to overcome the image that Laurel doesn't care about her sister.  It apparently is failing lol - but maybe that was what they were thinking.

[writersblock51]

Diggle and Felicity worked together to find Deadshot in season 1, but Digg didn't find out about the HIVE connection until season 2. And he presumably didn't tell anyone about it until now. As to why he's telling Laurel, it's because the HIVE reveal isn't actually about Diggle at all. It was actually brought up to remind everyone that Sara's dead and to set up Laurel's role in resurrecting her. Digg commiserates about keeping secrets about the death of a sibling, and she talks about what a terrible burden she had to carry. Cue the mention of the Lazarus Pits a couple scenes later. 

 

Thanks for the clarification.  I was trying to remember when we first heard about HIVE - I think it was with Deadshot in Russia?  So, yes, Season 2.

 

It still stinks that Felicity and/or Oliver were considered not trustworthy or whatever by Diggle now to be a part of his brainstorming.

[foreverevolving]

here my loves have some Oliver-tear my clothes apart-Queen.

Sweet dreams ;-)

 

 

 

 

Source: http://rydeforyou.tumblr.com/post/131193634623

[Guest]

Okay, this will probably be the last thing I say on the subject because I've reached the stage of apathy with Laurel but, for the record, I don't have a problem with Laurel wanting her sister back. Not at all. I have a problem with how the whole situation was dealt with.

 

I actually would have been fine with Laurel taking Thea to NP on a fact-finding mission about the pit - whether there's anything that could help Thea's problems and maybe learn more about the side effects. Then if she turned around and said, you know, dealing with this is bringing up a lot of thoughts about Sara and what if? Could I bring back Sara? Would this be best for Sara? I would have liked to see her conflicted at least.

 

Instead it came across like Laurel was only interested in learning about the pit to see if it could bring back Sara and Thea was a useful afterthought. Wanting her sister back is a perfectly normal reaction but the air of manipulation all over that scene just made me uncomfortable. She needs Thea there because she's the one who will convince Malcolm to help her and Laurel couldn't have done that alone.

 

And then on top of all that she didn't even tell Thea what she had planned but set it up as a trip to the spa and also lied to Oliver about it. Now, Oliver lied to her plenty so I'll let that slide tbh, but it just added up to a whole icky mess. Especially when Thea specifically said she didn't want to go near any 'hot tubs' and then Laurel's just gonna up and ignore that and take her to the one place she doesn't want to see again? Nope. Not good.

 

So yeah. I do think they handled this badly. They even could have had Laurel open the grave and Sara was already gone and already bought back by Rip Hunter or someone. I know it doesn't matter in the long run though because, like I said up-thread, she'll just be hailed as a hero for bringing Sara back and her being a legend and this will all be forgotten. 

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited October 15, 2015 by Guest

[inconstancy]

Shut the hell up, Quentin. I'm sick of your shit.

 

Laurel, you are the worst. You are the AT&T of people. You are the peanut butter on the roof of the world's mouth. You are the opposite of Batman. (And you probably don't even know what that means!)

 

I was probably dipped in the Lazarus Pit at some point in my life, because I must be crazy to keep watching a show that so regularly infuriates me.

 

Oliver/Felicity and Felicity and Curtis were the only things I liked in this episode. More, please.

 

[Guest]

Laurel, you are the worst. You are the AT&T of people. You are the peanut butter on the roof of the world's mouth. You are the opposite of Batman. (And you probably don't even know what that means!)

 

I DO. My icon is Britta. She's not the worst, she's the best. 

 

Laurel is definitely not Arrow's Britta though. Britta was the 'worst' in a super cute endearing way. Haha.

[tangerine95]

Loved the episode except for Laurel.I am beyond done with her.What she's doing is seriously sick.I don't know if the writers want her to seem insane,selfish and manipulative or they just don't care about her and only want Sara for their spinoff.

They have her see the effect of the pit on Thea and still decide to do that to her sister who has been dead for a year for no other reason then she wants to.Everyone on the show has lost someone.Oliver only did it to save Thea's life but you don't see him trying to bring back Robert,Moira or Tommy.She had a year to process and mourn Sara,the way she's acting isn't normal even by this show's standards.

It comes across like she's using Thea.You can see her trying to get info about the pit and looking like she's forming a plan while Thea is talking about how horrible its been for her.

Then she lies to Oliver(which also makes her a huge hypocrite after telling Digg we don't keep secrets) who tells her to take care of Thea and already has a plan formed about going to NP without even asking Thea about it first.Thea clearly has PTSD and Laurel is taking her to the place that is the source of her trauma to ask for a favor from the father who mind controled her into killing someone.I don't buy her line about the LOA having a way to fix Thea since it makes no sense.Malcolm knows what the pit does and was against using it on Thea,if he knew of a way to spare her the after effects he would have done it by now.

I don't know how they can repair any sort of friendship betwen Laurel and Oliver after she dragged Thea into this.I just want Oliver to get away from her.He doesn't need this insane person who only brings him problems and doesn't bring anything good to his life whatsoever.

[yellowfred]

I mean, I think they could have had another character do it and then just had Laurel be ecstatic when she found out....but I suspect making it Laurel's idea is about trying to overcome the image that Laurel doesn't care about her sister.  It apparently is failing lol - but maybe that was what they were thinking.

 

I think that's definitely what the writers were thinking when they came up with this storyline, but, as seems to be their pattern with Laurel, they didn't think through the details.  Ideally, they would show her being fully aware of the risks but taking them anyway.  Instead, they show her not even acknowledging the risks.  I'm sure we're supposed to assume it's coming from a place of love, but mostly she just reminds me of the old couple in "The Monkey's Paw," right down to the gross corpse that no one wanted to see.

 

 

Laurel is definitely not Arrow's Britta though. Britta was the 'worst' in a super cute endearing way. Haha.

 

It really is amazing what a little self awareness (from both the character and the writers) can do for a character that the audience doesn't initially connect with.

[Jediknight]

He was holding back against THEA, obviously.  But Lonny Machin both managed to outrun him after the assassination attempt, and whipped his butt later at that bar.  

Remember he was on the bench for a few months.  It will take him awhile to get back into the swing of things.  You don't sit on the bench for months, and then dominate after getting thrown right back into the fire.  It takes some time, that's why sports leagues have training camps, and practices.

[Artsda]

So all long term dead and buried people can just be dug up and dumped into the pit to resurrect? If so, why doesn't Oliver dig up everyone he knows? Mom, dad, Tommy. This is just ridiculous. 

[thuganomics85]

Can't believe they got Jeri Ryan and it already looks like her moment in done, and it all was just to get Olle inspired to run for mayor.  What a waste.  Although, the idea of Ollie running for mayor and having a decent shot at winning, is pretty hilarious, because it just shows how fucked-up this universe is.  In the real world, an Ollie campaign would never get off the ground considering his past history and troubles.  But when you are going for a position that seems like it's Star City's version of the Defense of the Dark Arts teacher from Harry Potter, it's believable here.  Not to mention, Moira was a major contender even though a few months ago, she helped destroy about half of The Glades.

 

Anyway, obvious the big moment of this episode is Laurel digging up Sara's body and taking her to Nanda Parbat, after she finds out about the Lazrius Pitts.  So many things going through my head.  How in the hell is she going to even get the body there?  Is she just going to ask Felicity for a private plane from Palmer Tech, because good-look flying commercial with Dead Sara, Laurel.  How many months has it been since Sara's death?  Because shouldn't she be more decomposed?  But, of course, the big question is what the hell, Laurel?  Really, I get it: you want your sister back, and I can even buy you going over and asking questions.  But you see with your own eyes what is happening to Thea, and she wasn't even fully dead, yet?  How do you know bringing back Sara would just cause things to get really worse.  At least ask Nyssa.  I mean, hell, the fact that Nyssa didn't automatically grab the body when she first found out, should be a sign that this isn't something you can do willy-nilly.  Think it through, Laurel. 

 

Anarky bored me.  And I found it hard to believe he was badass enough to take out Oliver with that much ease.  I know it was mainly a set-up to have Thea deliver the blow that sets him on fire, but it made Oliver look like an amateur.

 

Back to barely any Diggle, which is something that I really do not approve of.

 

Felicity as the new CEO is fun.  Liking this Curtis fellow, and I like that they aren't making it a big deal that he is gay and has a husband.  As long as they don't have Damien Darhk kidnap and force him to marry a woman, I'm all good...

 

The stuff with Oliver/Thea was the highlight.  There were other aspects I liked too, but the final twist really through things for a loop.  It's too bad, because I was kind of digging the Laurel/Thea scenes, but now it feels less like bonding, and more like Laurel was just using Thea.  Which is a bit funny, since Laurel always accuses Oliver of doing that with others.  So much for the higher ground now.

[Password]

It's like the writers don't like Laurel.

As soon as Laurel decided to bring back Sara via the Lazarus Pit, I knew this board would blow up.

[BkWurm1]

Phew, just caught up on five pages.  So much to say. 

. I HATED her stupid stakeout talk, "I'm hungry. How can I still be hungry? John?"

 

It was weird since there were no signs of any food wrappings or mention of just having eaten dinner. Actually, I’m not sure at all what Diggle and Laurel were doing (or why) Who were they staking out?

Also liking Felicity as CEO. Ok, it's not exactly believable, and it was a lot less interesting than the rest of the episode, especially against all of the Oliver/Thea stuff and everything involving Damien, but it bodes well for her character growth. Although, setting that six month deadline - yikes.

 

Shows my priorities, I found myself bored every time DD and Anahrky started chit chatting and wondering when we’d get back to Felicity.  I was really looking forward to what she would do to stop the firing.  It’s kind of hilarious that her big plan was fake it until she could figure it out later, lol. This is what happens when you combine Oliver’s recklessness and Felicity’s faith.

2. Speaking of all that, however, exactly how is Oliver convincing anyone on Evil Island that after three years stranded on Evil Island he's capable of overseeing the slaves instead of becoming one?

 

No kidding?  Why would they take the chance unless they were so desperate for a guard that they figured offering to take him home after the job would ensure his loyalty.  Still, field girl was right.  Where exactly are they going to get workers if they kill off the ones they have.  Just give them water.

I disagree that Oliver ever tried to beat up Thea. He tried to show her a technique and then Thea lost it and started wailing on him. He tried to defend himself without hurting her and Laurel and Diggle had to pull her off him.

 

I have to say, while I know he wasn’t trying to beat her up, he did a piss poor job of getting her consent on showing her the moves.  It played like he was almost  beating her up to make a point like she was some low level dumb henchman but we know Oliver didn’t mean it that way which is why I will just criticize him (heavily) for his training technique.  Very poorly timed or explained beforehand.  It would have been fine in a training ring, but just standing there in the basement with barely a moments warning...no.

 

 

1. I loved Olicity in this episode. So thankful to everyone here for talking me down from my 401 ledge last week--here's looking at you, BkWurm1, for your patience and diplomacy, and at you, AyChihuahua, for your stubborn refusal to understand my flawed thinking! I'm so glad it was clear that they're healthy, honest, supportive, and attuned to each other. My heart thrilled at Oliver giving Felicity a pep talk for once, and her needing and appreciating it. The #LoveFernLives and #PackedLoveLunch moments were adorable

 

It takes a villiage. When I start staring into the abyss, I know there will be someone to pull my back from the edge.  :D  (Or if things go really bad, hold my hand and jump with me, lol)

 

The Olicity was woven into the episode so nicely.  It’s simply an extension of their characters.  It feels effortless.  I love ending the episodes (or nearly ending the episodes) with Oliver and Felicity talking about their day.

 

I also loved her adorable "I get to be bossy today because I'm the boss" line to Oliver

 

.  The jabs to the chest on his suit and her glee and excitement and Oliver’s amusement.  Hee!  She is so awesome.

 

I continue to love the increased use of public spaces populated by Star City citizens. I'm glad there's a return to Oliver's connection to his city. S4 already seems like a bigger budget show than last season, with its rotation of very few sets and no extras

 

 

YES!!!  It just makes the show feel bigger and more real.  It’s sad too how excited I get seeing sunlight in Star City.

Why haven't Diggle and Felicity spoken to each other besides her calling him "John" over the comms?

 

AND when they got back and Felicity tried to high five him, he just left her hanging.  I’m telling you, Dig’s holding a grudge against Felicity as well. Well, it is possible he’s just too cool for the high five but I still think he’d grudging.

 

Speaking of grudge, I was glad that Thea yelled at Oliver for coming home and then just leaving her.  It’s completely valid and yet Oliver leaving was also something he needed to do.