S04.E02: The Candidate

[bmoore4026]

Well, Thea's gone cray cray.  Time to bring back Roy.

[catrox14]

 

In Laurel's defense, she did say that the people who know how to fix Thea are in Nanda Parbat.  How much of her desire to go there is for Thea's sake and how much about Sara and herself, I guess we'll find out.

 

But it's just a stupid idea for her to think anyone in Nanda Parbat not named Nyssa would be willing to help her at all. 

 

To me this is typical Laurel, running off half-cocked, not thinking her actions through at all.  But worse, I couldn't even get from KC's performance that she was either conflicted, freaked out or had something to tell me under the surface that she's remotely thinking this might not be the best idea.

 

It's just a bad plan and Laurel should feel bad.

[dtissagirl]

Nothing trended. Not even 'Arrow.'

 

LAUREL, YOU HAD ONE JOB.

[nksarmi]

If you don't think her trying to kill her brother is a clue that she's nutbars I think we'll have to agree to disagree.  

I don't think Laurel and Diggle would have thought that was what she was trying to do.  And we can totally agree to disagree, but I think they would have just thought she was wailing on him for pushing her buttons.

 

And let me say again - Oliver DID more when he thought Roy needed help.  He didn't bench Thea, he didn't say, "you can't go out in the field anymore" - he has done nothing.  So yea, I cannot blame Laurel here.

[kismet]

Magic...he's seen things

Or he might have some special herbs or teas... :)

[aslightjump]

I want her to get to NP and Nyssa be like 'honey, no.' Tell her, Nyssa, she's not thinking straight!

[AyChihuahua]

And let me say again - Oliver DID more when he thought Roy needed help.  He didn't bench Thea, he didn't say, "you can't go out in the field anymore" - he has done nothing.  So yea, I cannot blame Laurel here.

In which episode did Oliver beat the crap out of Thea again?

[Primal Slayer]

I'm really hoping that they do give us less big fights as the season goes on. Need to come up with ways to do more "intimate" fights throughout the episode.

[nksarmi]

In which episode did Oliver beat the crap out of Thea again?

Ok what????

[Chaser]

The whole Laurel and Thea situation is unsettling.

 

I'm not rage-y about it all. I'm genuinely disturbed.

 

I didn't feel any concern for Thea after Laurel found out about the pit. From that moment on, it felt like manipulation. If Laurel cared so much about Thea she could have gone to Oliver and brought up taking her back to Nanda for help. She could have mentioned Nyssa. She didn't because she knew they would stop her from bringing Sara. Which means it's not about Thea, it's about Sara or really herself.

[AyChihuahua]

Ok what????

You said Oliver did more when he thought Roy needed help.  I have no idea what you are talking about, but there has never been an episode in which Oliver beat up Thea, therefore Thea beating up Oliver is a good bit of a clue that anyone other than Laurel would have caught.

 

Do you mean Oliver was in the wrong because he didn't bench Thea, like he did Roy when Roy was on Mirakuru?  That probably has to do with the new kinder and gentler Oliver, not to mention the team's unhappy reaction to Oliver trying to boss them around just last week.  I rather doubt if Thea didn't take his expression of concern well last week she would take him benching her well this week.

Edited October 15, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Carrie Ann]

I think @nksarmi is talking about when Roy was Mirakuru'd. But neither Laurel or Thea were around for that, so it's not like they would have had that to compare it to and say, "Oh, well, it can't be THAT bad." I mean, Laurel didn't even give it time. Not even a day, to talk to Oliver or ANYONE about this. To consider it, for more than a second. Just go ahead, use Thea as an excuse to get you into NP. Sounds great.

 

ETA: Speaking of time, there hadn't really been enough time for Oliver to bench Thea anyway, but even if he wanted to, guess what, he's not in charge! Thea even said it this episode. So what is he supposed to do? Sorry, but this feels like twisting in knots to excuse Laurel for not noticing her roommate/teammate has been slowly going nutso for the last five months, and then denying what she saw and what Thea's own brother was saying, and then immediately using it to her advantage once she was convinced. How convenient for her.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[fantique]

Firstly, am I the only one whose ears are still ringing for the massive anvil drops that were foreshadowing events in the same episode? I am of course talking about LL thinking to dig up SL and Oliver running for Mayor.

 

Good stuff:

• CEO-Felicity is great and I like to see her fumbling and have a make it work moment. Enough to set up her and Mr Terrific's alliance without overtaking the episode and it fit into their theme of "we need someone standing for the people in the light..." What is it with their boners for heavy handed themes?
• Liked Curtis and his vibe. I kind of already want him to be my bff.
• LOVED the Oliver and Thea stuff. Their fight was both great and painful to watch. I love big brother Oliver even though he's an idiot.

Meh stuff:

• The Diggle-Laurel scene was OK, and I couldn't -at first- buy that they're close enough to tell her about HIVE. I find it hard to believe Lyla is not the person he has that conversation with first. It also keeps reminding me that I miss John-Felicity scenes soooo much.
• The villiain, DD and Lance were a drag and such clear plot points that I couldn't bring myself to care. NM is great as DD, they need to use him thoughtfully.

Bad stuff:

• Captain Lance went from being one of my favourite characters to being the one I hope is in that damn tombstone. And the way they made so he can continue to pile on and not dial back his anti-Oliver feelings really pissed me the hell off. I am just tired of him.

 

All in all, not the worst but all the set-uppy stuff was bogging down the flow and the villain was trying really hard to be the gleeful evil type. Their lack of subtlety in story-telling and their love of shortcuts in emotional as well as character development continue to be a problem.

 

PS: How easy and non-obtrusive Olicity is really makes me want to punch the writers in the balls, or boobs (I don't discriminate in my dissatisfaction), for the misery crap storm that was last season when it comes to the couple. I hope they stay away from the temptation of complicating it through disingenuous internal drama. Oh well, hopefully water under the bridge. Cross the fingers.

Edited October 15, 2015 by fantique

[catrox14]

The whole Laurel and Thea situation is unsettling.

 

I'm not rage-y about it all. I'm genuinely disturbed.

 

I didn't feel any concern for Thea after Laurel found out about the pit. From that moment on, it felt like manipulation. If Laurel cared so much about Thea she could have gone to Oliver and brought up taking her back to Nanda for help. She could have mentioned Nyssa. She didn't because she knew they would stop her from bringing Sara. Which means it's not about Thea, it's about Sara or really herself.

 

Which to me is the way Laurel has always been.

 

This is just an extension of her making everything about her. I could actually have some sympathy for her if she was offering to exchange her life for Sara's. It would still be a shitty thing to do, because then Sara would feel guilty, but at least she'd be making a sacrifice of some kind. 

 

But right now, I don't think that is what she is planning at all.

[Sakura12]

No one in Nanda Parbat knows how to fix Sara or Thea, that's why they have to bring Constantine in. How would Laurel even know that the LOA ever brought someone back from being dead for a year? Thea was near death which is completely different.

 

I'm happy Sara's back but they really went about this dumbest way possible and makes Laurel look like a selfish idiot for playing around with something she knows nothing about. And on top of that adding even more trauma to Sara's million other traumas. 

[aslightjump]

Okay, my final thoughts for the episode and then I'm off, you beautiful people:

 

I think the writers have done Laurel and Thea a serious disservice here. They should have stretched this reveal out over two episodes and moved from there, BUT:

 

One of Laurel's defining flaws is that no matter how smart she may be, she does not think things through. Like, ever. So right now, she's heard about something that can bring her sister back and she may be able to find a way to negate the crazy that's inside Thea and she's thinking, this is great, let's go for it, we'll fix Thea and get my sister back in one fell swoop, awesome.

 

This whole thing can still be salvaged in the next episode if they: A) For the love of god, have someone sit Laurel down and ask her to walk them through her mindset right now. Talk to her about what she's feeling, get her to explain. B) Ditto for Thea and C) Have someone point out this particular flaw of Laurel's because the point of flaws is learning to grow out of them. Oh, and D) Someone please talk about what Sara would want. Is Sara at peace? Would Sara want to be alive more than anything else? 

[nksarmi]

You said Oliver did more when he thought Roy needed help.  I have no idea what you are talking about, but there has never been an episode in which Oliver beat up Thea, therefore Thea beating up Oliver is a good bit of a clue that anyone other than Laurel would have caught.

 

Ok I don't know what you are talking about, but I will try to clarify my position...

 

In the order of this episode, Oliver says Thea went too far with an opponent and does actual start beating up Thea...

 

Oliver brings up that Thea used a skill set that was too severe as he attacks her- let's take a moment to point out who she was trained by and the fact that Oliver never really trained her in how to honor his new code and he's broken plenty of bones himself, but yea moving on....

 

Thea loses her shit and starts fighting back really hard.  Oliver had recently bounced off a car window without a scratch so I am pretty convinced he could have stopped her if he wanted to.  Laurel and Diggle stopped it not because they feared for Oliver's life but they probably thought Thea would get hurt if they let it go on.

 

So what does Oliver DO after this huge moment when Thea "tries to kill him"?  He takes her back into the field and when he sends two people away to get the woman help, he keeps Thea with him.  And she sets a guy on fire - which I don't think Laurel knows about.

 

So what does Oliver DO after that? Nothing.  Not a damn thing.  No, Thea you shouldn't be in the field until you get this under control.  No meditation.  No training.  Nothing.

 

As I recall, when Oliver thought Roy was losing himself to the Marcuru - he tried to help him manage it.  He didn't offer any such help to Thea.  Just "I'm sorry I didn't tell you earlier."

 

So why I am supposed to believe that Laurel is TOTAL IDIOT for wanting to do to Sara what was done to Thea, when Oliver isn't DOING anything but lecturing and talking to Thea about it?

[Delphi]

I want her to get to NP and Nyssa be like 'honey, no.' Tell her, Nyssa, she's not thinking straight!

Well Nyssa is never thinking straight, if you catch my meaning. But she'll still think it's an awful idea.

[AyChihuahua]

I think @nksarmi is talking about when Roy was Mirakuru'd. But neither Laurel or Thea were around for that, so it's not like they would have had that to compare it to and say, "Oh, well, it can't be THAT bad." I mean, Laurel didn't even give it time. Not even a day, to talk to Oliver or ANYONE about this. To consider it, for more than a second. Just go ahead, use Thea as an excuse to get you into NP. Sounds great.

 

ETA: Speaking of time, there hadn't really been enough time for Oliver to bench Thea anyway, but even if he wanted to, guess what, he's not in charge! Thea even said it this episode. So what is he supposed to do? Sorry, but this feels like twisting in knots to excuse Laurel for not noticing her roommate/teammate has been slowly going nutso for the last five months, and then denying what she saw and what Thea's own brother was saying, and then immediately using it to her advantage once she was convinced. How convenient for her.

Yeah, Roy being brought into the discussion came out of the blue for me.  Laurel in particular had absolutely nothing to do with that storyline.  Thea was involved but knew nothing about Roy being benched, and plus this discussion wasn't about Thea's actions, but about Laurel's.  Laurel literally had no involvement in Roy's Mirakuru storyline, and knows nothing about Oliver's reaction to Roy being Mirakuru'd.  So yeah, seems like a weird argument to me.

[Princess Vanellope]

No one in Nanda Parbat knows how to fix Sara or Thea, that's why they have to bring Constantine in. How would Laurel even know that the LOA ever brought someone back from being dead for a year? Thea was near death which is completely different.

 

I'm happy Sara's back but they really went about this dumbest way possible and makes Laurel look like a selfish idiot for playing around with something she knows nothing about. And on top of that adding even more trauma to Sara's million other traumas.

All of my hope...ALL OF IT... Lies in John Constantine looking at Laurel and asking what the hell she was thinking. And then telling her she's a selfish asshole.

[Primal Slayer]

No one in Nanda Parbat knows how to fix Sara or Thea, that's why they have to bring Constantine in. How would Laurel even know that the LOA ever brought someone back from being dead for a year? Thea was near death which is completely different.

 

I'm happy Sara's back but they really went about this dumbest way possible and makes Laurel look like a selfish idiot for playing around with something she knows nothing about. And on top of that adding even more trauma to Sara's million other traumas. 

And Laurel of course does not know any of that. She thinks since they have the lazarus pit that they know how to use it and how to cure it, that's how it came across to me.

[quarks]

Ah, Arrow. So much good, and then, Laurel.

 

But I'll get to that!  Since otherwise, this episode had a lot to love.

 

Good things:

 

1. Neither of the Danforths died! That was a relief. Loved Jeri Ryan in this; hopefully she can come back for another appearance.

 

2. Not a bad introduction to the Oliver running for Mayor plot; the show actually gave us a motivation for his decision to run. I have no idea why Star City would choose a guy that, as far as they know, has no qualifications other than surviving an Evil Island, drinking a lot, and losing his family company in less than one year, but maybe Star City will look at this as an easy way to get rid of him.

 

3. Since this is about to get lost in my epic rant about Laurel, I did like that Diggle chose to talk to a teammate.  

 

4. Curtis Holt. His scenes with Felicity were really fun, and I LOVED the casual way the show dropped in the info about his husband. I can't take credit for this, since someone else said it on Twitter first, but THIS is the way to include LGBT characters - a quick comment that isn't even the point of the scene. That was great, as was Curtis' response to finding out that he was on the list to get fired - he took that a lot better than I would, certainly. 

 

5. Also liking Felicity as CEO. Ok, it's not exactly believable, and it was a lot less interesting than the rest of the episode, especially against all of the Oliver/Thea stuff and everything involving Damien, but it bodes well for her character growth. Although, setting that six month deadline - yikes.

 

6. Awww. Oliver made Felicity a sandwich and brought her a fern. And then was supportive afterwards.  I'm still not used to supportive, happy Oliver, but it's a nice change, and that scene where he told her they were right to come back - not quite up to the fun of last week's scenes, but a nice moment. Also liked the callback to finding another way.

 

7. Plus we didn't lose angry Oliver - he showed up to yell at Thea, yay!  These scenes were all great, and Willa Holland is clearly having a wonderful time going batshit crazy. Intense stuff from both of them, especially when/after Thea set the guy on fire, and if not for the plot that just got attached to this, I'd be really eager to see where this goes.

 

Also, THEY HAD A MOTORCYCLE RIDING MOMENT together YAY.

 

8. Anarky, dude, when Damien thinks you're over the top, you're over the top. Still. This kinda over the top evil? I AM HERE FOR THIS. 

 

9. We've often been harsh on this show for continuity issues, so a moment, please, to applaud two completely consistent elements: 1) joining the Star City police force is an almost guaranteed death sentence, and 2) the Palmer Tech board, not content with initially allowing a CEO whose publicly known experience consisted entirely of getting kicked out of four universities and running around on an evil island to take over, then appointing a nutcase CEO following the dictates of an insane former Australian agent, then not noticing when the next CEO built a robot suit in their offices and started flying around, is remaining completely useless and incompetent. I like this.

 

10. And really good to see Amell running around outdoors doing stunts again. That was fun.

 

11. And after last week's breathless pacing, I really liked that several - not all - but several - scenes were given time to breathe here; that added beat really helped several - not all, but several - decisions make a certain sort of sense.

 

Questionable things:

 

1. Awwww. Flashback Oliver's terrible wig is gone. I miss it already. 

 

2. Speaking of all that, however, exactly how is Oliver convincing anyone on Evil Island that after three years stranded on Evil Island he's capable of overseeing the slaves instead of becoming one? 

 

3. And what is it with all of these Evil Armies just happening to arrive on Evil Island to do Evil Things?  Is the Smoke Monster from Lost bringing them in?

 

4. And while I'm on it, Amanda Waller, you COULD try giving Oliver just a BIT of information about why he's infiltrating Evil Island and what he's looking for. I'd call you the worst, but, I haven't reached Laurel's section yet.

 

5. It's been six months, and nobody thought to tell Laurel a damn thing about this Lazarus Pit stuff, even though she later got taken to Nanda Parbat with the rest of them? Step it up, Team Arrow B. Geesh.

 

6. Diggle, not only is Laurel - LAUREL - right about the problems of keeping secrets like this in general, but H.I.V.E. is associated with the group attacking the city just now, a group Oliver is trying to fight, AND, you just learned in this episode that at least some of Damien's people are using Palmer Tech stuff, which should tell you that yes, Felicity deserves to know about this. I know you're ticked at Oliver, and I'm on your side because Oliver's often a jerk, but this? Really not a good move. Talk to them.

 

7. How did the QC set not get blown up in the rest of the Palmer Tech explosion? And exactly how far away is the new Lair from Felicity's offices, given that she kept hopping back and forth between them?

 

Bad things:

 

1. Ok, Arrow. Kudos for returning us to a season two set used for THAT mayoral attack, MINUS ABOUT TEN THOUSAND POINTS for then immediately taking us to the location shot you also used in season two FOR A SCENE SUPPOSEDLY SET IN RUSSIA, the same alleyway that you have now used twice in Flash. Vancouver's a big city. Let's make use of it, shall we?  

 

2. That was one fake looking corpse at the end there. And, ok, I've never actually tried to dig up a grave, but surely you would get dirtier?

 

And now, Laurel:

 

....

 

....

 

....

 

Ok. Let's try this!

 

Interestingly enough, for an episode that ended up being her hands down worst since season two, and arguably for the entire series, this started out on a positive note for Laurel. I don't know who took over her wardrobe, but once again, she looked great - best she's looked since season one. She had some great action moments - ok, that going down the rope shot out by the arrow was silly, but it looked pretty good. Her scene with Diggle was a genuine highlight for her character - after some pointless complaints about feeling hungry, which seems to be a television stakeout thing, she was - gasp - compassionate, understanding, and sensible.  She also, for a moment there, seemed genuinely compassionate about Thea.

 

AND THEN EVERYTHING ELSE.

 

Number of times Laurel failed as a lawyer: Not really applicable this episode. I'll take a slight deduction for not being able to persuade Oliver that the Star City police had the situation under control, but only slight, since not even Clarence Darrow could have pulled that off, against major kudos for being able to persuade Thea that digging up a body in the middle of the night and taking it to a League of Assassins was an excellent idea, since not even Clarence Darrow could have pulled that off, either.

 

Number of times Laurel failed as a vigilante: 1) telling Oliver that the Star City police had things under control, which, a, Laurel, you've been living in this city for three years now, and you're still able to say that, and b, if the Star City police did have things under control, then WHY ARE YOU VIGILANTING IN THE FIRST PLACE, 2) distracting Diggle during a stakeout, 3) one week after deciding that the city was in so much danger that she had to uproot Oliver Queen from his happy life and go against Diggle's express wishes, deciding to take off to Nanda Parbat with her sister's dead body, leaving Star City without two vigilantes like HELLO LAUREL DAMIEN IS STILL AROUND.

 

Number of times Laurel failed as a human being: 1) failing to pay attention to Oliver's initial explanation about the Lazarus Pit, thus forcing poor Thea to go through this again, 2) apparently never once asking, in six months, exactly why Thea didn't want to stay in that fabulous loft apartment anymore (since the scene where Laurel was sort of told about this got cut, and since she clearly didn't know this episode, I'm going with she had no clue) 3) failing to notice that Thea was losing it, 4) seeing Thea attack her own brother and fall into a major depression and go bonkers and think that the best thing to do under the situation was not - to throw out an idea at random here - try to help Thea or anything like that, but instead deciding that her best course of action was to drag an increasingly insane girl to a graveyard in the middle of the night so they could dig up her sister's body and take it to MALCOLM MERLYN, 5) looking at Thea and deciding that she wanted to have JUST THAT happen to her own sister like WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU LAUREL, 6) using an insane Thea to do this, 7) making that nasty crack to Oliver about whether or not he could protect the city in her absence, like, Laurel, Oliver and Diggle were vigilanting before you were, and you just said last week that you couldn't protect the city without him, like WHAT WAS THAT? 8) After telling Diggle they don't keep secrets from each other, keeping the fact that she is taking Thea and Sara's corpse to Nanda Parbat without telling anyone, including, at random, her father, her mother, Oliver, Nyssa, or, you know, Diggle, like Laurel, pot, meet kettle.

 

Look, I get that this Sara plot is happening to launch Legends and I was planning on rolling with it, but Arrow had plenty of other ways to manage this. Sara, after all, was a member of the League of Assassins: it is not completely out of the question that she might have had some valid intel on Damien and H.I.V.E., and at this point, Laurel knows what a threat they are. Or, perhaps have Damien decide that he wants Sara back for added leverage against Quentin and Laurel.  Or even had Laurel argue that they needed Sara's training and ruthlessness and resulting insanity from the Lazarus Pit - even tying it in to the whole you can only fight darkness with darkness bit. I don't know if I would have bought that, but it would have at least made a certain amount of sense.

 

A lot more sense than watching a close friend go insane and then deciding that that's the fate she wants for her sister since anything is worth having Sara back. 

 

But there's a bright spot. We now know that Damien IS threatening Laurel. Damien, I am totally on your side for this. In fact, just for that, and after Laurel's decision making here, you've become my very favorite character in the show :)

[kismet]

What I hate most about Dig's relationship development is that somehow they forgot that FS & Dig were friends in s1&2. I hate that last season Dig was all Team Oliver and forgot about FS. And this year, he's turning to LL and barely acknowledging FS. I just hate that they had a really good relationship that they could utilize on the show and then they threw it away to prop Ray last year, and now it seems like this year it will be sacrificed to prop LL.

 

Honestly, Dig just disappointed me this episode. I get his anger at OQ. But he is not the same guy he was for 3 seasons. I feel like he has checked out from being the caring guy who looked out for others. The old Dig would have noticed something wrong with TQ. He would have done more than what he did. I also don't like his hypocritical stance on secret keeping.

 

I hope the Year of Diggle is not like the Year of Felicity last year, where it was primarily Prop Patrol.

[InsertWordHere]

I believe DD will probably bring him into the fold. But they weren't lying when they said that Thea/Oliver played a role in birthing Anarky.

Yeah, but didn't they say it would be Oliver's fault with a little bit of Thea? This seems more like 95% Thea and 5%Oliver IMO. Then again, Oliver decided to put Thea in the Pit, and Oliver gets blamed for everything on this show and the spinoff anyway. 

And let me say again - Oliver DID more when he thought Roy needed help.  He didn't bench Thea, he didn't say, "you can't go out in the field anymore" - he has done nothing.  So yea, I cannot blame Laurel here.

After the attitude the team gave him last week when he temporarily forgot he wasn't in charge after they asked him to come back and help them, does Oliver even have the power to bench a teammate anymore? They'd probably send her out more often just to spite him. 

[Chaser]

Oliver looks like he is wearing a bonnet in the new hood. It either needs to be longer or he needs to tilt his head down or something.

[apinknightmare]

And Laurel of course does not know any of that. She thinks since they have the lazarus pit that they know how to use it and how to cure it, that's how it came across to me.

 

I honestly can't wait to see what happens when Nyssa sees what she's done. 

 

Speaking of which, does she not wonder why Nyssa didn't choose this option when she found out Sara died? 

Edited October 15, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Primal Slayer]

Okay, my final thoughts for the episode and then I'm off, you beautiful people:

 

I think the writers have done Laurel and Thea a serious disservice here. They should have stretched this reveal out over two episodes and moved from there, BUT:

 

One of Laurel's defining flaws is that no matter how smart she may be, she does not think things through. Like, ever. So right now, she's heard about something that can bring her sister back and she may be able to find a way to negate the crazy that's inside Thea and she's thinking, this is great, let's go for it, we'll fix Thea and get my sister back in one fell swoop, awesome.

 

This whole thing can still be salvaged in the next episode if they: A) For the love of god, have someone sit Laurel down and ask her to walk them through her mindset right now. Talk to her about what she's feeling, get her to explain. B) Ditto for Thea and C) Have someone point out this particular flaw of Laurel's because the point of flaws is learning to grow out of them. Oh, and D) Someone please talk about what Sara would want. Is Sara at peace? Would Sara want to be alive more than anything else? 

You know that would make sense....which means it will totally be skipped over in the episode. 

[foreverevolving]

I'm starting a movement, let's blast twitter... will you join me?

 

This:

 

Or This:

 

 

they could use a bit more work, but Preview only has so much editing options. I thought using the same color Sara was will work, it looks better than white and Black just gets lost in the background.

 

A little bit too harsh? *insert coy innocent face*

Edited October 15, 2015 by foreverevolving

[Chaser]

What I hate most about Dig's relationship development is that somehow they forgot that FS & Dig were friends in s1&2. I hate that last season Dig was all Team Oliver and forgot about FS. And this year, he's turning to LL and barely acknowledging FS. I just hate that they had a really good relationship that they could utilize on the show and then they threw it away to prop Ray last year, and now it seems like this year it will be sacrificed to prop LL.

 

Honestly, Dig just disappointed me this episode. I get his anger at OQ. But he is not the same guy he was for 3 seasons. I feel like he has checked out from being the caring guy who looked out for others. The old Dig would have noticed something wrong with TQ. He would have done more than what he did. I also don't like his hypocritical stance on secret keeping.

 

I hope the Year of Diggle is not like the Year of Felicity last year, where it was primarily Prop Patrol.

Laurel is to Diggle what Ray was to Felicity.

[Morrigan2575]

I'm starting a movement, let's blast twitter... will you join me?

This:

Or This:

they could use a bit more work, but Preview only has so much editing options. I thought using the same color Sara was will work, it looks better than white and Black just gets lost in the background.

I vote for the first one

[EmeraldArcher]

I still contend that Laurel is a manipulative, selfish lair!

1. She told Thea that she wanted to take her to Nanda Poorbutt because the LoA would know how to help her. LL, you're a liar! Thea's father is in control of the LP and knew enough about it to warn Oliver not to use it on Thea. MM/New RaG would have already tried to help Thea if he could, right? They have a complicated relationship, but the writers have tried to convince us of his love for Thea. He knew months ago that it would affect her, and I'm sure he would try to use any LoA knowledge he's privy to, as you know, the leader.

2. She told Thea they were going to a spa, and listened to Thea's anxiety about going near a hot tub, because you know, the LP is what screwed her up in the first place. She didn't come clean until Thea's brother was no longer around to protect her. Thea even asked her why they weren't telling Ollie, who had just left! LL is a manipulative, sneaky, lying bitch! She isolated a clearly vulnerable girl so that she wouldn't have the support to refuse her.

I have never liked LL. Selfishness has been her defining characteristic. She is not capable of being a partner or teammate. I hope the writers are putting us through this so we can witness Laurel being an agent in the LP being off limits in the future so that she is the reason her death in 6 months will remain permanent. Karma, bitch!

[nksarmi]

I honestly can't wait to see what happens when Nyssa sees what she's done. 

 

Speaking of which, does she not wonder why Nyssa didn't choose this option when she found out Sara died? 

 

Honestly, I thought MM was going to do it to get Nyssa under control - I mean, that's what would have made sense to me and I believe he would do it even though he cautioned against it for Thea.  But whatever, I still don't think Laurel is the worst ever for this (not yet anyway- they can easily sink my good will next episode).

[dtissagirl]

I need to rewatch, but there was a moment when Oliver was worrying about Thea in this episode that I for sure thought he was thinking about calling Malcolm for help. But then obviously it didn't go anywhere, because they needed Oliver to do nothing so that Laurel could be the one to "help" Thea.

[statsgirl]

I'm thinking it's going to be a wig to keep up the ruse that he was marooned the whole time. 

And now I'm laughing at the idea of Amanda Waller keeping a Wig and Beard salon in the ARGUS hideout for all your secret identity needs.

 

Re why would anyone vote for Oliver as mayor:

Remember, no one else is willing to run for the position, Jessica said there would need to be an election for form's sake but she' was running unopposed. So it would be either Oliver or no mayor at all.

 

And let me say again - Oliver DID more when he thought Roy needed help.  He didn't bench Thea, he didn't say, "you can't go out in the field anymore" - he has done nothing.  So yea, I cannot blame Laurel here.

Roy was on mirakuru and dangerous and out of his mind all the time.  Thea is different, most of the time she's normal and then suddenly she's fighting and loses control.  Oliver could try to bench her but like Laurel, she would just go out and do it on her own.  She's safer doing ti under Oliver's supervision and that's what he tried to show her in their fight, how to achieve the same results without breaking the other guy's arm..

 

As InsertWordHere said, could Oliver even bench Thea at this point?

 

I disagree that Oliver ever tried to beat up Thea. He tried to show her a technique and then Thea lost it and started wailing on him. He tried to defend himself without hurting her and Laurel and Diggle had to pull her off him.

 

I think @nksarmi is talking about when Roy was Mirakuru'd. But neither Laurel or Thea were around for that, so it's not like they would have had that to compare it to and say, "Oh, well, it can't be THAT bad." I mean, Laurel didn't even give it time. Not even a day, to talk to Oliver or ANYONE about this. To consider it, for more than a second. Just go ahead, use Thea as an excuse to get you into NP. Sounds great.

Laurel didn't see it unless she was watching TV or at Verdant when Roy showed up and tried to kill Thea.  But Thea certainly got up close with Roy's mirakuru madness, both when he was on it and later when he was telling her how bad he felt for killing the cop. And Diggle certainly knows what it was like with Roy.

 

The only explanation I have is that Thea was okay through the five months Oliver was gone but lately things have got much, maybe because of the adrenalin of fighting the Ghosts.  Otherwise I can't understand why Diggle and Laurel didn't catch it.

Edited October 15, 2015 by statsgirl

[lemotomato]

I honestly can't wait to see what happens when Nyssa sees what she's done. 

 

Speaking of which, does she not wonder why Nyssa didn't choose this option when she found out Sara died? 

That's the problem, right? Laurel doesn't think.

 

Like, if she stopped to think about it for a second, she should've wondered why, if Oliver knew about the Lazarus Pits, he didn't dig up Sara, Moira, Tommy, and his Dad and bring them back like he did with Thea. Did she think Oliver didn't love them enough to resurrect them? 

Edited October 15, 2015 by lemotomato

[Angel12d]

Diggle had noticed something was up with Thea though. Not as much as Oliver did but he did acknowledge in 401 that she had more aggression. It's nothing to shout about but at least he did notice something. Anything, even.

[Primal Slayer]

What I hate most about Dig's relationship development is that somehow they forgot that FS & Dig were friends in s1&2. I hate that last season Dig was all Team Oliver and forgot about FS. And this year, he's turning to LL and barely acknowledging FS. I just hate that they had a really good relationship that they could utilize on the show and then they threw it away to prop Ray last year, and now it seems like this year it will be sacrificed to prop LL.

 

Honestly, Dig just disappointed me this episode. I get his anger at OQ. But he is not the same guy he was for 3 seasons. I feel like he has checked out from being the caring guy who looked out for others. The old Dig would have noticed something wrong with TQ. He would have done more than what he did. I also don't like his hypocritical stance on secret keeping.

 

I hope the Year of Diggle is not like the Year of Felicity last year, where it was primarily Prop Patrol.

But it isn't like he is going out of his way to open up to Laurel. He didn't want to keep up the conversation until Laurel kept pushing and trying to get him to open up. It isn't a constant thing and he should be able to open up to more then just Felicity and Oliver. Yes they need to give F/D some scenes together, some genuine catching up scenes but the writers are very narrow minded. Hopefully it will improve in the future but right now the writers seem to only have Felcity be in scenes with the whole team, with Oliver and with Mr.T. But hey, they get a whole episode it seems to themselves so who knows?

[apinknightmare]

Honestly, I thought MM was going to do it to get Nyssa under control - I mean, that's what would have made sense to me and I believe he would do it even though he cautioned against it for Thea.  But whatever, I still don't think Laurel is the worst ever for this (not yet anyway- they can easily sink my good will next episode).

 

I don't think she's the worst ever, I just think she's acting like a selfish moron, but I'm sure it'll work out all right for her in the end. It always seems to. 

[Primal Slayer]

It isn't as if Quentin forgave Laurel in 1 minute, he has been pissed at her for months and their relationship isn't 100%, just as Laurel had to face consequences for her being a drunk and having everyone quit on her and her having to deal with Tommys death because she wanted to get her clients papers from CNRY.

[Angel12d]

I don't think she's the worst ever, I just think she's acting like a selfish moron, but I'm sure it'll work out all right for her in the end. It always seems to. 

 

Yep. No consequences for Laurel! Or maybe they'll surprise me. Who knows? Doubtful though.

[apinknightmare]

It isn't as if Quentin forgave Laurel in 1 minute, he has been pissed at her for months and their relationship isn't 100%, just as Laurel had to face consequences for her being a drunk and having everyone quit on her and her having to deal with Tommys death because she wanted to get her clients papers from CNRY.

 

Where exactly did I say that she never faced any consequences? I wrote that things seem to work out okay for her, and they do. She got her job back, she's handling her alcoholism, her father is back on speaking terms with her, and got into bed with a psycho to keep her from harm. Whatever happens with this, I'm sure it'll work out as well. 

Edited October 15, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Lady Calypso]

I wish they could have spread out the Laurel arc out as well. I think the major, major problem is that it was rushed, due to everything packed in the episode already, so the writing was incredibly shoddy.

 

Here's what I wish could have happened, but we all know it won't: Laurel hears about the LP and thinks about her sister and what if she could bring her back. For me, this wasn't the problem because, as we've seen with Barry, family (especially on TV) will do anything for their family. This is especially true if they have the power to fix things. You give someone the power, or at least the possibility, to do something and it won't be that difficult of a choice. 

 

Then, we should have had Laurel asking more questions about the Pit to Diggle or Oliver. Ask about Thea, but ask about the Pit and get the whole story. Have her ponder, maybe do a small time jump a couple of days forward. Have that ending scene be a few days later (basically have that first part, but cut off Laurel coming in for another scene). Then have her be packing a bag and telling Thea they're going to go away to Nanda Parbat to figure the LP out and to save Sara. End of this episode. (But I KNOW they would have had no time for all of this....so at least cut that stupid coffin scene).

 

Then, next episode, have Thea thinking Laurel's crazy and trying to lay out the reasons why it is a bad idea. Then have Laurel explain herself and her reasoning. Maybe bring up the fact that she knows it's a huge risk and she's been thinking about the consequences, but also let her tell Thea that she has to at least try to see if it's a possibility, and she also wants to help Thea because she feels guilty about not noticing her growing aggression. Cut to Thea struggling with going through with it but ultimately agreeing because Laurel's going to go anyway and both Thea and Laurel want answers to her resurrection. Cut to a plane scene, more talking about Sara's death and how it's affected them both (because hey, if we have to have female moments, I'm ok with it being with Laurel/Thea... AS LONG AS IT'S WRITTEN WELL, which this isn't The Flash so it's possible). Then, in Nanda Parbat, have Laurel reluctant to believe Malcolm, because why should any of them believe this guy? Nyssa comes in, verifies whatever she needs to verify but have them both tell Laurel it's a stupid idea to resurrect Sara. But, of course, we know Malcolm will have a Plan B

with Constantine coming in to help with Sara's resurrection

and then have another scene of Laurel/Thea/Nyssa discussing Sara's resurrection, as well as Thea's side effects. But then at the end of the third episode, have Laurel finally decide to do it due to the risk being far less than what we expect. Then boom, episode four can have the preparation of Sara coming back and Thea getting more answers about her LP, instead of having it all rushed. And maybe, JUST MAYBE, Laurel will give a heads up to her dad so he doesn't have a heart attack when Sara comes back to either reunite with her family, or slaughter Star City.

 

Personally I would rather Laurel choose to resurrect Sara only if they can get Thea on the mend.

 

But we all know none of that's going to happen, because first of all, too many female moments without men. And second of all, Laurel's very reckless so she wouldn't think any of this out.

[AyChihuahua]

Yep. No consequences for Laurel! Or maybe they'll surprise me. Who knows? Doubtful though.

Maybe her daddy will be mad at her for a few weeks again.

[nksarmi]

Yea the character who really has NO consequences for his actions (or blame) is MM. Laurel is just whiny about it so she is less likable. 

[calliope1975]

No one in Nanda Parbat knows how to fix Sara or Thea, that's why they have to bring Constantine in. How would Laurel even know that the LOA ever brought someone back from being dead for a year? Thea was near death which is completely different.

 

I would forgive Laurel everything if when she shows up in NP with Sara's desiccated body, all of the LOA back away slowly, and some random LOA points to MM and says, you deal with this crazy lady. 

 

Maybe if she knew anything about the Lazarus Pit, I could understand. But she just heard about Thea coming back, knows she's crazypants, and still decides on this course of action, in, what, 5 hours? Nope. Do not pass go or collect $200. Even Moira Fucking Queen did her research.

[Angel12d]

I agree these things I had issue with needed time to breathe and build. Laurel should have talked with Thea about it, how she really felt after being in the pit. So many things could have improved this. But they rush everything on this show. It's Arrow.

[lemotomato]

Yea the character who really has NO consequences for his actions (or blame) is MM. Laurel is just whiny about it so she is less likable. 

And yet even MM knows better than to dig up his long dead loved ones and put them in the Lazarus Pit.

[Angel12d]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

This is how I feel about Laurel digging up Sara now. I'm chill.

[foreverevolving]

Which fight?  He got his ass kicked all over the place.  It makes NO SENSE.

 

I may be approaching dtissagirl levels of "this show is so dumb I will just point and laugh and not be mad" chill.

ehh I think it is far more likely that he was holding back.

 

Also. Sorry. Even with embalming fluid. Sara would be in way worse shape. I know it's the CW but I study forensics and that's bothering me.

 

Fanwank it honey, just... let it be, or you end up yelling at the screen because he left the damn Souffles on top of the counter!! with whipped cream on top!!! just.. NO!

I have since fanwanked that it had to have been a molten chocolate cake.. just.. yea.

 

 

But hey, I love that behind the "do something in the light" aww shucks motivation for Oliver to want to run for Mayor, there's also the fact that it's a high risk to be assassinated position, and that's like, Wednesday for Oliver. Well done on layering narrative hooks, show.

 

I agree. It was a good set up for why he decides to run for mayor. Also the city is so desperate they will vote for just about anyone.

 

Customs: But Ma'am, you're departing from America

Laurel: *Sweats nervously*

 

But Felicity is CEO... It's hers to take over?

No question mark required, I do believe Oliver also mentioned she "inherited" the company. I think it is safe to assume she's not only CEO she's also the owner, or part owner.

 

...plus...Laurel now reminds me of Barry. Oh god, risking lives and consequences be damned to save a family member who's been dead for far too long. My god. 

 

Please do not compare Barry to Laurel.. Barry is not always right but he does not deserves to be compared to Laurel.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Last season, I probably would have been fuming about the Laurel ridiculousness.  Now, I just laugh and laugh...and laugh!  I'm not sure if the writers hate her, or if they think we'll be all yay, thank you Laurel, for bringing Sara back or what.  I really have no idea why they write her like this, but I've reached the point where it just entertains me.

 

Just loved Oliver getting the blame for setting that dude on fire.  Obviously he's not going to say that his sister did it, but I'm so very sick of him accepting responsibility for everyone else's fuck-ups.