S02.E02: Flash Of Two Worlds

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Why Can't We Be Friends?
Barry and Joe both try to push away willing allies. Good thing they're better at repelling enemies.

[Chicago Redshirt]

And isn't Killer Frost Caitlin Snow, so shouldn't Jay be a little freaked out by a supervillain hitting on him?

We assume that Earth 1 Caitlin will eventually become Killer Frost. It obviously hasn't happened yet.

 

There's no particular reason to think a) Earth 2 Caitlin still exists b) Earth 2 Caitlin has become Killer Frost c) Killer Frost has crossed path with Earth 2 Flash or d) or that her human identity would be known to him. (Jay, for instance, doesn't know who Zoom really is even though they are arch-rivals).

[Chicago Redshirt]

He was also fanboying over Black Canary last season. Definitely a continuity error.

Technically, Laurel is just "the Canary" at this point. Also, the source of his fanboying was definitely not her name, if you get my drift. 

[CabotCove]

Cisco criticizing his name was stupid and bad writing. He named Lisa GOLDEN Glider and made that suit for Oliver. I am getting tired of Oliver getting bashed as being lesser than Barry when Oliver has had it worse

 

That was the furthest thing to a bash, it was meant to be a joke.

 

If you're coming here from golden-hued Earth 2, Earth 1 must seem like a downgrade.   No wonder the E2 villains will do anything to get back home.

 

Really?, E-2 seemed like a downgrade to me and Im wondering why the metas dont want to stay in a futuristic E-1. But home is home I guess. 

Edited October 14, 2015 by WildcardC

[FurryFury]

Technically, Laurel is just "the Canary" at this point. Also, the source of his fanboying was definitely not her name, if you get my drift. 

Really? I thought she was BC already. But then, I didn't watch Arrow by that point.

 

Really?, E-2 seemed like a downgrade to me and Im wondering why the metas dont want to stay in a futuristic E-1. But home is home I guess.

 

Was it really E2 that was futuristic? I had the impression that Star Labs portal opened to another universe, not E2.

Edited October 14, 2015 by FurryFury

[Actionmage]

I believe all the other prisoners were freed during the ill-conceived plan to have Captain Cold guard them during the failed transfer to Blackgate / Belle Reve / Iron Heights (whichever it was). They mentioned somewhere along the line that Blackgate is equipped to handle metahumans now, so the Pipeline prison is largely redundant except as a possible short-term holding facility.

 

I understood that part. It was Barry going on about how Jay couldn't close the deal and capture Zoom while being snotty and petulant.  It was unfair of Barry, no matter how much I understand where he's coming from emotionally.

 

To taunt a complete stranger who is trying to explain what is going on, crime-wise, is rude at best. Especially when you were duped- not for the first time!- by a man into putting a half dozen or so criminals back on the street because you couldn't walk away from his blackmail. Considering the blackmail was Barry's civilian identity, I'm surprised the season didn't start with a cop thanking a costumed Flash with a heartfelt "Thanks, Allen!"  That way Barry has to remember less than last season about who knows The Secret.

[ParadoxLost]

I love time travel stories/alternate universe stuff so I got everything that Stein was saying.  Even if I didn't, Stein explained it easily enough for most.  If it was too much to process for Joe, that would be a more than fair reaction.  But not understanding it?

While I don't disagree, I sympathize with Joe.

 

That is because every time I watch a superhero show, I read the wiki on the comics to figure out who the characters in the comics are.  And really The Flash is the most convoluted and confusing by far.  And by far I mean if the farthest galaxy from ours is 13 billion light yeas away then the Flash comics are twice that far removed from the next most convoluted comic book series I've ever read  a Wiki about.  That or the fans of the Flash that write such things suck at coherent explanations relative to other fandoms.

 

 

Was it really E2 that was futuristic? I had the impression that Star Labs portal opened to another universe, not E2.

 

Yes, I think its Earth 2.  Also, I'd describe the stylization of E2 as Steampunk. That's why it has a retro futuristic vibe.

 

Oh and I can't continue to call it Earth 2 because I watched that show.  I keep waiting for Tim Curry to show up.

Edited October 14, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[karasmom]

If you're in the U.S., you should be able to watch it on the CW's website, www.cwtv.com.  

 

Direct link here: 

 

It also should pop up on the free but ad-heavy version of Hulu.

 

 

Thanks!  I watched it but the CW also has tons of ads.  

[Lord Malvolio]

Ok when the two Flashes jogged around that brick column, I immediately thought of the immortal Flash cover #123! I was totally not expecting it! Well done! Loved it!

But why does Jay not have his powers? Will he slowly get them back? The E2 STAR Labs looked intact, yet why are there so many meta humans and Jay (and Zoom) is a Flash?

[Gentian root]

Oh and I can't continue to call it Earth 2 because I watched that show. I keep waiting for Tim Curry to show up.

That would be awesome!

[MarkHB]

I am pretty sure that the steampunk world where we saw Harrison Wells was Earth-2, not another one.

 

Another Easter egg I remembered that no one has mentioned: Sand Demon had Patty imprisoned in the Woodrue Greenhouse.  Jason Woodrue is an established DC character, The Floronic Man, who was portrayed in Batman and Robin by John Glover.

[Starfish35]

Technically, Laurel is just "the Canary" at this point. Also, the source of his fanboying was definitely not her name, if you get my drift.

She's Black Canary. She called herself that in the episode with Cisco, and Ray Palmer called her that in an episode on Arrow. It was kind of dropped in without much of an explanation about how that came about, but it seems to be known.

[maczero]

Felicitys storyline was ok but I found it weird that she was able to waltz in there after never being there and just take over. 

She did say she had been teleconferencing with the board so I'd say she's been on the job just not physically in the building.  Although, it does seem weird that she wasn't aware of the company's financials and that there was a push to lay off employees.

 

Is Curtis Holt any relation to Michael Holt aka Mr. Terrific?

[wingster55]

Cisco fanboyed over Laurel being BC. Not her name.

[ICantDoThatDave]

Wow, is Patty an awful character. She has all the "right" qualities in a fantasy girl for males.

1. Smiles 90% of the time

2. She has three majors

3. Her name is Patty(did you know. It was said 100 times)

4. Has faith in the Flash.

5. Says all the right words.

6. Is geeky(look she knows about fantasy!)

7. No matter what happens(getting rejected again and again) she stays chip-chip-chipper

8. Says things that sometimes means she puts her foot in her mouth(omg, so cute! So unthreatening!)

 

No offense meant, but if you think that is a list of qualities for a "fantasy girl for males", your male friends have been lying to you.  Like when females say their fantasy guy "has a good sense of humor".  If you asked 100 guys to list their Top 8 fantasy characteristics, #'s 2, 3 (not even sure what you mean there), 5, 7, & 8 wouldn't get mentioned once.  The others I'll grant, might get mentioned once.

[marketdoctor]

#2 on the fantasy list is a detailed way of saying "very intelligent and a wide range of interests", which are good.

 

I thought Patty was channeling her Natalie Portman.  I'm not sure what to make of that.

 

Is Jay Garrick now going off to the Home for Extra Flash Father Figures?

 

Overall I liked this one.  I thought Earth 2 was more Golden Age than Steampunk (basically Steampunk + 50 years).

[BaggythePanther]

Please writers, get it straight, Cisco is the beta male, not the gay guy checking out how well dudes wear their clothes, no matter how good a shot at Barry/Grant it is.

Seems like the writers are doubling down on this instead. Cisco's Vibe story seems like an allegory for coming out of the closet.

[sjohnson]

I don't think reluctance to have a useless power that doesn't help beat up bad guys is staying in the closet. Or that fessing up to having a superpower is like coming out. Instead Cisco is coming on to Peyton List. True their version of meet cute involves torture of his brother, but still, Peyton List. Also, Cisco's brutal assault on Hartley Rathaway is pretty much explicable only because he really doesn't like Rathaway, not just for being a dick, but because Rathaway's gay. Cisco basically stuck needles into his eardrums and enjoyed it. Anyhow in dramatic terms, Cisco isn't his own man playing on a different team. Cisco is the sidekick playing a losing game, which makes the lead, who plays so well, shine that much brighter.

Edited October 16, 2015 by sjohnson

[wingster55]

Also, Cisco's brutal assault on Hartley Rathaway is pretty much explicable only because he really doesn't like Rathaway, not just for being a dick, but because Rathaway's gay. Cisco basically stuck needles into his eardrums and enjoyed it.

I don't follow

[sjohnson]

Cisco attacked Rathaway with a sound device that caused agony/severe damage to his ear drums. Cisco was very pleased with himself for this. I think that's not what nice guys usually do to other guys, not even the ones who act out at work, personally hostile. The only thing that distinguishes Rathaway otherwise is that he's gay, so that's the most likely explanation, especially since the Cisco character is a loser with the ladies and has to establish credibility as just a failed straight.

[Lokiberry]

Cisco attacked Rathaway with a sound device that caused agony/severe damage to his ear drums. Cisco was very pleased with himself for this. I think that's not what nice guys usually do to other guys, not even the ones who act out at work, personally hostile. The only thing that distinguishes Rathaway otherwise is that he's gay, so that's thUe most likely explanation, especially since the Cisco character is a loser with the ladies and has to establish credibility as just a failed straight.

Um, no? Cisco's actions were motiivated by having a previously hostile relationship with Rathaway, who then turned into a violent supervillain (wannabe). Sexuality didn't enter into it. Also, we don't know enough about Cisco's love life to call him a loser who fails with the ladies.

 

The show is not homophobic, and has never presented any of it's characters as homophobic. You might make a case about Arrow after what it did to Sara and Nyssa (although, I really think that was misogyny), but not Flash.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Lokiberry

[taragel]

I'm sure they would easily figure a way to do it if they cared. But they don't care.  It wasn't hard for them to give Patty a background and a pov, and yet Iris whose mother just stepped into the scene has never had a moment where she reflects on her mother and her loss. This is willful neglect.  

 

Candice Patton deserves a better job.

 

Exactly. I liked Patty a lot because she's the first female character they've introduced who has a concrete goal and purpose and feels like she's the lead in her own story, not just there to be a support to Barry. I didn't mind her occasional perkiness/fangirling (didn't feel it was anywhere near early Felicity's levels) and she didn't come across as a "perfect fantasy girl" to me at all (I think the typical fantasy girl would not at all be a cop who takes down perps but someone way "softer"), but I sure did think she and Barry had a very nice and easy camraderie that he hasn't really had with any of his other "love interests." It's a pity we're three seasons in and Iris and Caitlin are still so utterly lacking any kind of development. 

 

I like Teddy Sears and was glad to see him on board as Jay Garrick. The glimpse into Earth-2 was also interesting. I hope they have Cisco tell the others about the visions right-quick. I can't see any reason why he would be keeping that a secret from the team, not when Cisco's always been gung-ho about getting/having powers. 

Edited October 16, 2015 by taragel

[nksarmi]

Nobody thinks that maybe the Earth-2 side of portal that AtomSmasher and Jay and NotSandman came through could be where Ronnie went?

Geniuses.

Or Eddie.  He got sucked into it as well, right?  It's amazing that none of them are thinking, well if they came here, did any of our people go there?

[sjohnson]

It seems as if Ronnie is suffering the true death in superhero TV, namely, the producers want to ditch the actor. 

 

"Cisco's actions were motiivated by having a previously hostile relationship with Rathaway, who then turned into a violent supervillain (wannabe)." 

 

Cisco had a previously hostile relationship with his brother too, but somehow that didn't turn into his letting him lose his fingers to frostbite. Harrison Wells treated him much worse but he didn't seek revenge. Hell he didn't even gloat over Wells in his cell. Either you concede Cisco was out of character for that episode or you find the reason why Rathaway was so much more offensive to him. Good luck with that. (The show does not intend to be homophobic but the show didn't intend to advocate torturing illegally held prisoners with brutally inhumane conditions either.) 

[kelaney]

So, poor Jay has been basically homeless and unemployed in a completely foreign land for six months? Maybe crashing at Star Labs every night and subsiding off of their surprisingly well stocked break room?

[nksarmi]

It seems as if Ronnie is suffering the true death in superhero TV, namely, the producers want to ditch the actor. 

 

"Cisco's actions were motiivated by having a previously hostile relationship with Rathaway, who then turned into a violent supervillain (wannabe)." 

 

Cisco had a previously hostile relationship with his brother too, but somehow that didn't turn into his letting him lose his fingers to frostbite. Harrison Wells treated him much worse but he didn't seek revenge. Hell he didn't even gloat over Wells in his cell. Either you concede Cisco was out of character for that episode or you find the reason why Rathaway was so much more offensive to him. Good luck with that. (The show does not intend to be homophobic but the show didn't intend to advocate torturing illegally held prisoners with brutally inhumane conditions either.) 

 

Yup no torture this season - this seasons the meta humans just keep conveniently dying. :)

 

I'm sorry, I like Flash and I generally think it IS the lighter show, but it amuses me to NO end the constant debate about killing and "going too far" over on Arrow and on Flash (the more family friendly show) - eh, the bad guys we don't want to recycle just keep dying.

[Oscirus]

Can we address the fact that metahumans on this side of the world have been conveniently behaving themselves.  I feel as if having Flash deal with them from both worlds would raise the stakes. I hope that we get metahumans from both worlds fighting one another by the time this season is over. Otherwise I will be disappointed at this missed opportunity.

[zannej]

I think comparing Cisco's relationship with his brother and Wells to his relationship with Rathaway is like comparing apples to oranges. Cisco had more of a familial relationship with the former two and always had an antagonistic relationship with the latter. Despite all of his annoyances with his brother, he still loved him. He wouldn't want to see him permanently disfigured no matter how jealous he was. Now Rathaway constantly mocked, taunted, and did whatever he could to make Cisco miserable. He inflicted pain on others and was just a miserable person in general. I don't think his sexuality had anything to do with how Cisco treated him. There was never any fondness or even respect between the two of them. So, I think he really wanted to see the guy taken down a peg and while it was cruel to watch him suffer, it was sort of necessary to incapacitate him and Cisco is only human. It wasn't something that caused permanent disfigurement.

 

sjohnson, why would the producers want to get rid of Robbie Amell?

[Xander]

Can we address the fact that metahumans on this side of the world have been conveniently behaving themselves.  I feel as if having Flash deal with them from both worlds would raise the stakes. I hope that we get metahumans from both worlds fighting one another by the time this season is over. Otherwise I will be disappointed at this missed opportunity.

It would be trippy if doppelganger metahumans were on opposite sides (villains vs heroes) fighting against/with The Flash.

[sjohnson]

Rathaway should be permanently deaf, which would explain why he never reappeared. But if he does, no doubt the injuries will magically disappear. By the way, as I recall, Rathaway's supervillain "career" was directed at revenge against the wealthy parents who rejected him for being gay.

 

In real life not everyone who is despised for what they are (or are believed to be) reacts by developing amazing people manipulation skills. Some respond to perceived hostility with hostility, to perceived contempt with contempt. Maybe over the years they get into a habit of aggression. Of course if they are despised for what consensus deems to be good reason, then such behavior is unforgivable.

[Ruby25]

I wonder if the show actively decided to just kill metahumans this year because they didn't want to imprison them anymore. That prison didn't make sense- how were letting them bathe and go the bathroom, never mind just feeding them. And solitary confinement like that is pretty harsh too.

 

I think they need some kind of equivalent of what Smallville had with Belle Reve- a hospital/prison that the city has specifically for metas. Because now it's obvious that Barry's kind of killing these guys but nobody's mentioning it.

[Hobo.PassingThru]

 

Because now it's obvious that Barry's kind of killing these guys but nobody's mentioning it.

Yeah. That is happening.

From what I read on DC's website, the comic book version of the Sand Demon was also killed the same way by his enemy, Firestorm.

But, for the first guy, Atom Smasher, him dying was weird. in the comics he was a good guy. So, I guessed they made him temporarily bad but I didn't expect him to die. I thought he'd go back to Earth 2 at the end of the episode.

 

As for people wigging on Cisco, my guess is the character and his powers are being refined. So, when he used the sound projection box on the Pied Piper- a guy who also has sound based tricks, it was in line with the comic books, sorta. This "vibe" seeing-the-past-that-he-wasn't-a-part-of is a new angle on the power. I thought it was a one-time flashback last season. But, apparently their goofing it up as a power this season. You know the reason why he wants to be quiet about it is because they are setting up something later on when it would have been good for everyone to know about it. Seeeecreeeets!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I'm excited to see how the Earth-2 version of Harrison Wells turns out!

 

How many times has Joe been knocked out now? He might want to consider getting a helmet.

Ah, yes, the Wesley Wyndham-Pryce of each show needs protective headgear from constantly getting pummeled, knocked down, thrown into walls, etc!

[sjohnson]

As for people wigging on Cisco, my guess is the character and his powers are being refined. So, when he used the sound projection box on the Pied Piper- a guy who also has sound based tricks, it was in line with the comic books, sorta. This "vibe" seeing-the-past-that-he-wasn't-a-part-of is a new angle on the power. I thought it was a one-time flashback last season. But, apparently their goofing it up as a power this season. You know the reason why he wants to be quiet about it is because they are setting up something later on when it would have been good for everyone to know about it. Seeeecreeeets!

Don't actually know anything about Vibe in the comics, just the "vibrations of the universe" line from Wells. I imagine knowing the comics does put the Cisco/Rathaway fight in a different perspective. But how and why are the rest of us supposed to know this?

[zannej]

Not to get off-topic, but I just now noticed the comments about Tim Curry. Man, I wish he could make an appearance-- unfortunately he had a massive stroke that left him paralyzed.

 

Kinda makes me think of Dr. Wells.

 

Speaking of Dr. Wells, other than recharging, I wonder if he was so weakened that he actually needed to sit and had trouble walking. I also wonder how he avoided the team members giving him a thorough examination and discovering he isn't as damaged as they thought-- of course, maybe they just took his word for it and didn't want to pry because they respected him so much.

 

The killing of the metahumans is interesting and I'm a bit surprised by it. It's like they are trying to do the opposite of The Flash (with Barry getting more angsty while Oliver is lightening up and Barry killing enemies while Oliver tries to avoid killing).

[bettername2come]

Oliver and Barry need to talk. "Oh, so guys like us can't get the girl, huh?" "Since when do you kill people?" "How come Cisco made you a brand new suit and all I got was this white circle?"

[Oscirus]

Didn't Joe basically said the prisons could now house metahumans?  I could've sworn he did.  That being said it's not really a big deal to me that they're killing the metahumans.  These murders are in self-defense. And since they're earth 2 metas, team flash has no idea what they're capable of.

[Delphi]

Eh, killing a different freak of the week metahuman every episode like early Smallville and Birds of Prey is going to get old real fast for me. You can't really call Barry a hero if his solution each time is murder, especially if it's not even addressed, then the whole team looks like crazed vigilantes. I'm going to need them to fix that soon.

[KirkB]

Yeah, something is a bit wonky if Oliver isn't killing people anymore but now Barry is.

Edited October 20, 2015 by KirkB

[Commando Cody]

This episode repeated. I did not notice on the first viewing that Patty was Barry's groupie.