S14.E10: Crew's All In

[JasmineFlower]

I was tres amused at the guest judge who said to him that this is Project Runway, this is your chance, it doesn't get any better than this. I'm still sort of snickering as I type that. Aside from Christian Siriano, has anyone had any actual success after PR? I mean, even Dmitry and Seth Aaron, who have both won twice, don't appear to be doing much. Maybe Dmitry is doing more in Europe, but after Seth Aaron's 2nd win, he said he was going to move to California and finally start his label. I don't remember reading anything about him since then. Let's be honest: PR is NOT the springboard to fashion longevity that the producers and judges want us to think.

 

 

There are many Project Runway successes and it is a great opportunity. I think some of it has to be taken in context though. What I think this show does more than anything is give people a platform to grow their brand and have the opportunity to have a future making a living as a designer. Doesn't mean they'll become Michael Kors, just be able to live pretty well designing clothes. Like Kelly this season. If she can come away from this having established herself enough to launch a brand or boutique instead of working in a deli, I'd call that a success. Others wouldn't. Here is a Where Are They Now I saw earlier this year (I think it's older than that though). But remember, these are winners, I'd say some of those who have been the most successful didn't win like Nick Verreos, who has done well as both a TV fashion personality and designer, and Austin Scarlett, who has done very well as a wedding dress designer.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/bricesander/where-are-they-now-all-13-project-runway-winner-wn2y#.ywyorzyO3

[terrymct]

Actually, it's not couture, but Gretchen's not doing badly. She's the creative director for Pendleton now.

It might not be going so well for her. They announced about a year ago that she'd be working on some collections, including The Portland Collection, but they'be been discontinued. Maybe Pendleton shoppers didn't want to dress like Depression era farm wives. Her Thomas Kay Collection is gone already, too.

Edited October 10, 2015 by terrymct

[auntlada]

All the designs were horrid, so I thought the judges' just picked the skinniest "real woman" model. Cuz' purplish pleather overalls! Really??

 

I thought Merline's model was the skinniest, although Kelly's was next in line. I thought Merline would win because of it.

[windfall]

And again, we have seen designers pretty much every season who sew very fast and have extra time, or otherwise fritter time.  Nothing we have been shown accounts for the massive about-face in attitude about Swapnil, at least not for me.  I just think somewhere there's a whole other story about this.

 

Difference is that those past designers like Kini actually finished sewing their garments. If everything is hemmed nicely and all the fasteners are in place then there's nothing to complain about. But if you're spending time not working on the design, and then having to do last minute work as Tim is rushing everyone out of the workroom, that's a problem. Even though I would like to see the designers get more time to work on these challenges, it is hard to be sympathetic. This goes for all the designers too, especially when they end up with simple outfits that are unfinished. 

 

In general, I'm surprised by how many people here are defending Swapnil. Were any of his model's requests/demands unreasonable? As others have said, it's not hard to accommodate for not showing arms and legs. Sleeves do exist, and so do pants. Make a variation on a gown or something.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

It can't just be that Swapnil should have spent more time working and the woman wasn't happy. Because stink face is never happy, let's get real here. She's not a happy person. She's apparently in her 20s yet looks weighed down by life and at least in her late 30s. She's not a happy woman at this point in her life for whatever reason.

 

Wow!  That's a lot of judgment being thrown at a woman who we met for mere fractions of a single, highly-edited episode.

Hey, come on, you know Snap Judgments R Us around here.:)  I don't know what she's really like either but I also got "unhappy" from her generally.  First when she said twice that she "really needed a makeover" but was wearing clothes (flannel shirt, jeans)  that would suggest she didn't care about such things - that's already a weird disconnect.  Also all the nervous constant smiling while she said what she didn't like. This looked and felt to me like a kind of default setting for her in uncomfortable situations.  We didn't see her telling Swapnil what she DID like but of course that doesn't mean she didn't - just that we weren't shown it.  And maybe her idea of "flirty" doesn't involve deep decolletage, skintight clothes, etc. - the stereotyped "bombshell".  While I don't freak out about showing my arms and legs  I also don't feel sexy in clothes I can't move comfortably in. Thus I wouldn't feel sexy in Candace's or Merline's outfits (tight pleather skirts, no).  Maybe she's a lesbian and doesn't think prancing around in a Tight Short Shiny minidress like Heidi is going to attract the kind of attention she's looking for.  

 

Also in terms of being unhappy I suspect it's not exactly a  teddy bear's picnic  working on  Project Runway.

 

Might I add that the hair and makeup makeovers were awful except for Merline's model, mostly because she had a clear idea of what she wanted and asked for it.

I especially HATED that OF COURSE the woman with curly hair got it straightened and the woman with grey hair had it dyed.  Cause goddess knows there's nothing less sexy than curly hair and grey hair.  Except being fat of course!

 

I've never liked ONE Real Woman challenge on this show ever, and this was no exception.  The shocker to me is that surely these crew members have seen exactly how awful the Real Woman challenges on PR always are, much more than any of us at home on the couch possibly could - and yet they agreed to participate in one!!  Maybe they were threatened with being fired unless they went along with it.  Honestly if it were me in that case, I'd be looking for another job rather than go through the humiliation and the uglification.

Edited October 10, 2015 by ratgirlagogo

[RCharter]

Difference is that those past designers like Kini actually finished sewing their garments. If everything is hemmed nicely and all the fasteners are in place then there's nothing to complain about. But if you're spending time not working on the design, and then having to do last minute work as Tim is rushing everyone out of the workroom, that's a problem. Even though I would like to see the designers get more time to work on these challenges, it is hard to be sympathetic. This goes for all the designers too, especially when they end up with simple outfits that are unfinished. 

 

In general, I'm surprised by how many people here are defending Swapnil. Were any of his model's requests/demands unreasonable? As others have said, it's not hard to accommodate for not showing arms and legs. Sleeves do exist, and so do pants. Make a variation on a gown or something.

 

Swapnil smoked all throughout this competition.  Even when he was in the top three for the first 3-4 weeks.  He managed to send finished and top three looks down the runway.  So, he can smoke and get the job done -- Tim shouldn't have had a problem.  If its all about this "effort" than Kini should have never taken a nap, because there is always more that a designer can do.  Napping is not working at 100% effort, which Tim has made it clear you must give or he will go whining to the judges.

 

Didn't she want to be flirty?  I haven't seen many flirty jacket/pant sets....with sleeves...

 

Maybe a jumpsuit?  but most of those are flirty because they show some skin up top....which it sounds like she would also be morally opposed to.

[Bebecat]

I am losing a bit of my Zac-love and it makes me sad. I loved him in his early, innocent years on PR. Now he seems like he is trying too hard to be a "character". Don't do it, Zac :(

[leighdear]

None of the "models" are suffering any negative career aftereffects from this episode.  They're all doing the same job, in the same place with the same people.  Maybe 15 minutes of embarrassment, but quickly forgotten  That's not necessarily what happens to the designers.  And that's why I thought the crew should have basic input, but the designers should have driven their respective buses. 

 

One advantage they all have is that if a crew member or designer is given crap for being "difficult", they can blame it on bad editing, and most people will believe it. Generally, people understand "reality" TV these days is heavily manipulated.  

[RCharter]

I am losing a bit of my Zac-love and it makes me sad. I loved him in his early, innocent years on PR. Now he seems like he is trying too hard to be a "character". Don't do it, Zac :(

He is trying so hard to be Kors...so hard.  But he can't be Kors, and he shouldn't try, he should just go back to being nice, supportive Zac from the first couple of seasons he was on the show.  

[sinkwriter]

From Sarah's recap/review:

 

 

Tim makes no move to hug him. Doesn't say they'll miss him. Not sure what else is going on here but it's not wearing real well on Mr. Gunn.

 

I'm not sure, but in the moment of watching that final bit between Tim and Swapnil, my first thought was that Tim was quietly waiting for Swapnil to say or do something. But -- as Swapnil already told Edmond that he wasn't sure he could handle a deep conversation with Tim -- I don't think Swapnil was able to speak up. He was visibly upset and I think he just wanted to get the hell out of there. I don't think he was ready to speak. 

 

I hope they're able to have a conversation at some point in the future, and come to a better relationship. That whole last part made me really sad.

[Calamity Jane]

Difference is that those past designers like Kini actually finished sewing their garments. If everything is hemmed nicely and all the fasteners are in place then there's nothing to complain about. But if you're spending time not working on the design, and then having to do last minute work as Tim is rushing everyone out of the workroom, that's a problem. Even though I would like to see the designers get more time to work on these challenges, it is hard to be sympathetic. This goes for all the designers too, especially when they end up with simple outfits that are unfinished. 

 

In general, I'm surprised by how many people here are defending Swapnil. Were any of his model's requests/demands unreasonable? As others have said, it's not hard to accommodate for not showing arms and legs. Sleeves do exist, and so do pants. Make a variation on a gown or something.

You are right about the sloppy finishing, good point, and it seems clear that was the final straw for the judges. 

 

As for the model's requests, at least Swapnil was not nasty to her in the way other designers have been in the past (Jeffrey and Ven come to mind), and I thought he sincerely was trying to figure a way to accommodate both her desires and what he felt he needed to do to wow the judges, knowing he was very likely to be on the chopping block for low effort in the past.  Yes, he was frustrated, but I didn't see him getting mean-spirited about it, especially by comparison with  those I mentioned above.

From Sarah's recap/review:

 

 

I'm not sure, but in the moment of watching that final bit between Tim and Swapnil, my first thought was that Tim was quietly waiting for Swapnil to say or do something. But -- as Swapnil already told Edmond that he wasn't sure he could handle a deep conversation with Tim -- I don't think Swapnil was able to speak up. He was visibly upset and I think he just wanted to get the hell out of there. I don't think he was ready to speak. 

 

I hope they're able to have a conversation at some point in the future, and come to a better relationship. That whole last part made me really sad.

I felt that he was struggling desperately not to break down, and he said in one of his THs that he really wanted Tim's approval.  It was such a sad scene. 

[pinguina]

Very random thoughts:

-Ashley, Ashley,Ashley!  So disappointed!! I've wanted to like everything you make, but I just can't.  To paraphrase, "There's no crying in fashion!"

-Swapnil, i am sorry you had someone that was so inarticulate but as someone said, you could have done pants and jacket!

-Candice, the girls on Hollywood Blvd. can hardly wait for you to design for them!  (To me everything you design is black, leather, and tight; maybe to switch it up you could add a whip?)

-Kelly, you designed overalls (although cute) for someone who wears overalls a lot.  

-Merline, I know it had problems, but I kind of like it.

-Edmond, both were nice but not together.

Carry on.

[PepperMonkey]

Just to clarify, I'm not saying it's "bad" to be on Project Runway, and certainly the win can give you some forward momentum. But it's certainly not the home of the next big name in fashion, nor does it have the importance (hell, maybe it NEVER did) that the judges and producers want to impart to it to perhaps prove it's still relevant. I mentioned Christian, of course, because he's the most obvious and visible. And then there was <shudder> Gretchen, who may not be doing so well after all, which is sad. Michael Costello has had a good measure of success, which I remembered after my original post; and yes, Austin, has done well for himself in SPITE of not being able to go to the finale in Season 1, and then not winning All Stars 1 in favour of the anointed one, Mondo.

 

Re Swapnil and so many of us taking up for him: I, and most everyone else, said that it was definitely his time to leave. It's just when he started out, he seemed to have such joy and his first few challenges, he did some damn good designs. What happened to that Swapnil? I think we would all like to know. I'm only sticking up for him against TIM and his rant because I like Swapnil and I don't think anything he did THAT WE SAW merited Tim running and tattling to the judges about how lazy and time-wasting was Swappy. The whole thing just makes me sad. I'll miss Swapnil on my screen for the few short epis that are left, and I miss Tim from several years ago. I think Swapnil did waste time and it did become a problem, but I'm still wondering what led to that because that is certainly NOT the initial picture we were given of him as a person and as a designer.

[candall]

     In spite of all that "percentage of effort" jazz, I don't think Swapnil was holding back in the beginning--and he was outstanding--but after the judges designated him the perpetual runner up, his whole game slipped right off the rails.

 

     His early designs were good enough to argue, on more than one occasion, that he should have been the winner.  If he'd actually won back then, he would have been confident and maintained his own good instincts and we'd still be seeing quality stuff.

     But I think being told "You're SO close!" caused him to flail about making weird choices, trying to hit whatever mysterious El Dorado element the judges thought he was missing. 

 

     I didn't perceive him as lazy.  The aimlessness (and all those contemplative smokes in the alley) looked to me like cover for not knowing what the hell the judges wanted and not knowing how he could make his designs be any "better." 

 

     Kind of a shame.

Edited October 10, 2015 by candall

[Madding crowd]

I pegged Swapnil as going to the end along with Edmond and Ashley. But anything can happen and I do think he was tired of not winning or being praised for his work. I don't feel too sorry for him though, anyone who goes on the show has to know what to expect. And honestly, all of the designers are always able to create something so why not put a little more thought into it and create something nice? Surely, they have made designs at home they can adapt from.

 

I really still like Project Runway and it is one of my favorite shows so I would not like to see it cancelled. I have watched it from the beginning and there are some seasons where I don't like many of the designers and some I like more of them. Also, from year one there were both one and two day challenges. I think one reason why people remember the past so fondly is they focused more on evening wear and red carpet looks which always have a wow factor you won't find in overalls and raincoats.

 

I think the show has to cater to young people though and many younger women don't dress up any more and prefer casual clothes and separates. I'm hoping we will have at least one more challenge where the designers can make a beautiful gown but I doubt it and don't think Kelly or Ashley could do it.

[PepperMonkey]

I hope this is not off topic, but I don't think PR is likely to be cancelled by Lifetime. It would be more likely that Heidi doesn't want to do it anymore. She seems less and less interested to me every season.

 

But Lifetime cancelling? I can't see it. This is a network that shows 75 episodes of Dance Moms in a 9 month period.

[auntlada]

Flirty doesn't have to mean bare skin. Flirty can be something with sleeves and something that covers the legs -- even both in the same outfit. I'd go so far as to say that flirty is best when it's not showing too much bare skin. Flirty to me implies innocence (whether real or put on), and too short or bare clothes override that. I think of flirty clothes as hinting at things, maybe giving a fleeting glimpse, but not showing them outright (or to put it in Heidi's terms, more bra, less boob).

That's not to say that arms, for instance, must be covered for flirtiness, but they don't have to be bare either. I think Swapnil's last top, the blue one, came closest, but those sleeves were awfully tight.

Flirty sounds like something for Seventeen, however, not a professional woman. (I say this as someone who wishes she were still young enough to wear tights as pants even as I decry their use as pants because they are not pants.)

[slothgirl]

Oops...another thing I forgot to mention...I was rather neutral on Edmund until the 'team' challenge where he was paired with Hanmaio...and, in my not so humble opinion, he was totally nasty to her...

 

I felt the same way about that challenge, but I warmed up again to Edmond as time went on. I admire his preparedness for the show and his attitude pretty much all the time except that one situation.

 

Wow!  That's a lot of judgment being thrown at a woman who we met for mere fractions of a single, highly-edited episode. 

I totally agree!

 

Hey, come on, you know Snap Judgments R Us around here.:)  I don't know what she's really like either but I also got "unhappy" from her generally.  First when she said twice that she "really needed a makeover" but was wearing clothes (flannel shirt, jeans)  that would suggest she didn't care about such things - that's already a weird disconnect.  Also all the nervous constant smiling while she said what she didn't like. This looked and felt to me like a kind of default setting for her in uncomfortable situations.  We didn't see her telling Swapnil what she DID like but of course that doesn't mean she didn't - just that we weren't shown it.  And maybe her idea of "flirty" doesn't involve deep decolletage, skintight clothes, etc. - the stereotyped "bombshell".  While I don't freak out about showing my arms and legs  I also don't feel sexy in clothes I can't move comfortably in. Thus I wouldn't feel sexy in Candace's or Merline's outfits (tight pleather skirts, no).  Maybe she's a lesbian and doesn't think prancing around in a Tight Short Shiny minidress like Heidi is going to attract the kind of attention she's looking for.  

 

Also in terms of being unhappy I suspect it's not exactly a  teddy bear's picnic  working on  Project Runway.

 

Might I add that the hair and makeup makeovers were awful except for Merline's model, mostly because she had a clear idea of what she wanted and asked for it.

 

I especially HATED that OF COURSE the woman with curly hair got it straightened and the woman with grey hair had it dyed.  Cause goddess knows there's nothing less sexy than curly hair and grey hair.  Except being fat of course!

I'd be a terrible candidate for a total makeover, because I have hair that is both curly AND grey. Plus I just spent 3 years growing out the color, so I'm not about to let anyone color it again until I get a decent cut FOR CURLY HAIR and live with my grey for awhile, viewing it through the lens of a quality trendy cut. Everyone of my friends has said they love my natural hair color because it enhances my skin tone, and they are all jealous of my thick hair (everyone who has never had to deal with very thick curly hair always wants it for reasons I just can't fathom). So I despise this fashion attitude that women must not only be thin, and young, but that they be "processed". Of course, it's SO much easier to color someone's hair than give them a great cut.

 

I would however, LOVE a sexy glam red carpet look, even though I'd never have a red carpet to wear it on.

 

I'm thinking that some of these crew members were more excited about being in front of the camera than others. I wouldn't be surprised if there was pressure to participate. As I said in another post, it's questionable how many women they have on the crew, since those are typically male dominated industries. Maybe that woman is unhappy; maybe she just wasn't as comfortable being in front of the camera as she expected to be; or maybe all that "I need a make-over" was scripted and she's uncomfortable delivering insincere "lines".

 

Or maybe she DID want a makeover, but still didn't want to be turned into someone else completely by a designer who took one look at her and decided she needed to be "sexed up" because that's how women are supposed to look in his view.

Edited October 10, 2015 by slothgirl

[film noire]

  So what magical sleeve did she want?

I believe she wanted Greensleeves -- flirty, but not dramatic-- and able to go from day to evensong.

 

Edited October 10, 2015 by film noire

[RCharter]

Just to clarify, I'm not saying it's "bad" to be on Project Runway, and certainly the win can give you some forward momentum. But it's certainly not the home of the next big name in fashion, nor does it have the importance (hell, maybe it NEVER did) that the judges and producers want to impart to it to perhaps prove it's still relevant. I mentioned Christian, of course, because he's the most obvious and visible. And then there was <shudder> Gretchen, who may not be doing so well after all, which is sad. Michael Costello has had a good measure of success, which I remembered after my original post; and yes, Austin, has done well for himself in SPITE of not being able to go to the finale in Season 1, and then not winning All Stars 1 in favour of the anointed one, Mondo.

 

Re Swapnil and so many of us taking up for him: I, and most everyone else, said that it was definitely his time to leave. It's just when he started out, he seemed to have such joy and his first few challenges, he did some damn good designs. What happened to that Swapnil? I think we would all like to know. I'm only sticking up for him against TIM and his rant because I like Swapnil and I don't think anything he did THAT WE SAW merited Tim running and tattling to the judges about how lazy and time-wasting was Swappy. The whole thing just makes me sad. I'll miss Swapnil on my screen for the few short epis that are left, and I miss Tim from several years ago. I think Swapnil did waste time and it did become a problem, but I'm still wondering what led to that because that is certainly NOT the initial picture we were given of him as a person and as a designer.

I think it could definitely be bad to be on Project Runway as it exists now.  You are much more likely to get a bad edit or end up sending awful stuff down the runway than you are to get to FW.

 

Can you imagine being a young designer and having to put clothing down the runway that you made in 8 hours?  With very few production breaks....for a span of 8-10 weeks?  Its a set up to fail, especially as they make the show lower and lower budget.  

 

I think for a young designer they have to look at the risk/reward analysis.  You're taking a great risk by being on a show that is basically setting you up to fail.  However, there is a possibility the reward of being able to finally have some time to design and show at NYFW.  I'm not sure how the decoy collections work....it sounds like they all walk at NYFW but only the top three get featured on the show.  If thats the case than Swapnil may have already gotten the reward since he was able to design a collection that actually walked at FW.  And if the pictures of his collection are accurate, I think its beautiful.

 

If only the top three collections walk at FW than the designer has to decide if its worth the risk of leaving the competition before FW with the only thing people see of you is potentially drama and crappy clothes you had to design in a day to potentially get the reward of having your collection walk at FW.

 

I imagine more and more savvy young designers don't feel like the risk of looking like an awful designer on national TV is worth the narrow reward of maybe having your collection walk at FW.  And therefore I think the talent pool has likely dropped considerably.

 

How many truly talented young designers want to be on a show where they are more likely than not going to come off looking incompetent?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for Swapnil -- that situation steams me to no end.

 

Whether he was working at 50%, 60%, or 82% he was producing top three looks week after week after week.  Nothing else should matter, so for Tim to go tattle to the judges and try to get him booted was ridiculous.

 

This show is called "Project Runway" not "Project 100% Effort" and so the only thing that should matter is the work the designer sends down the runway.

 

The judges are there to judge what comes down the runway, not the amount of effort it took to make it.  For Tim to try to sink a designer is just disheartening.  That's not his job.  And honestly, Swapnil didn't need his help, Swapnil was designing top three looks week after week.

 

However, after Tim went to whine to the judges and Swapnil was pushed into changing his work habits he fell out of the top three into the middle and then into the bottom.  I guess Tim must be proud that his mentoring resulted in a designer going from the top three to the bottom of the pack.  

[millennium]

I understood Tim's frustration with Swapnil.

 

I think it was not unlike Jeff Probst's disgust on Survivor when a cast member decides to call it quits.

 

These guys know -- literally know -- how many people would sell their mothers to be on these shows, yet never get an opportunity no matter how many audition tapes they submit.   To see Swapnil and the rest of the undeserving knuckleheads phoning it in for these challenges must be infuriating.

 

To make matters worse, Tim and Heidi are already committed to Fashion Week.   They can't back out -- the show must go on.  Their reputations are riding on it.   I have no doubt that PR's credibility has taken huge hits in the industry in recent seasons.  Now it seems to be teetering on the brink of imploding.   To come this far in the season and find your brand hinging on the creative output  of five or six complete incompetents must have them in a state of constant anxiety.    Does anyone really believe that even one of those designers deserves to show at Fashion Week?   I don't.   I wouldn't give them a dollar to make a collection, let alone $10,000 or whatever the sum is now.

 

Of course, it's the show's own fault.   This is what they get for dumbing down the concept and making the show on the cheap.

 

That said, I can still understand where Tim's outburst came from.    Especially since the models were people he  knew well and cared about.   He wanted them to be happy and they weren't.    That fact, on top of all the other concerns, appears to have pushed him over the edge. 

 

Swapnil's "model" was a jerk.   She behaved as if the show was Bridezillas rather than PR. 

[RCharter]

I understood Tim's frustration with Swapnil.

 

I think it was not unlike Jeff Probst's disgust on Survivor when a cast member decides to call it quits.

 

These guys know -- literally know -- how many people would sell their mothers to be on these shows, yet never get an opportunity no matter how many audition tapes they submit.   To see Swapnil and the rest of the undeserving knuckleheads phoning it in for these challenges must be infuriating.

 

To make matters worse, Tim and Heidi are already committed to Fashion Week.   They can't back out -- the show must go on.  Their reputations are riding on it.   I have no doubt that PR's credibility has taken huge hits in the industry in recent seasons.  Now it seems to be teetering on the brink of imploding.   To come this far in the season and find your brand hinging on the creative output  of five or six complete incompetents must have them in a state of constant anxiety.    Does anyone really believe that even one of those designers deserves to show at Fashion Week?   I don't.   I wouldn't give them a dollar to make a collection, let alone $10,000 or whatever the sum is now.

 

Of course, it's the show's own fault.   This is what they get for dumbing down the concept and making the show on the cheap.

 

That said, I can still understand where Tim's outburst came from.    Especially since the models were people he  knew well and cared about.   He wanted them to be happy and they weren't.    That fact, on top of all the other concerns, appears to have pushed him over the edge. 

 

Swapnil's "model" was a jerk.   She behaved as if the show was Bridezillas rather than PR. 

If this show has taken a hit it's the shows fault.  You can't pack a show with one day challenges and expect anything good to come of it.

 

This show only has itself to blame for its decline in reputation. It's also not Swapnil's fault that PR chose him over other designers.  I'm assuming they picked him because of his body of work.  I don't think he took some blood oath to "give 100% effort at all times."  

 

If a designer is clamoring to be on the show, should that desire be enough? I mean, if they had the desire and an amazing portfolio PR would have chosen them for the show over someone like Swapnil, right?  But there is a reason they chose Swapnil over someone else -- I hope it had to do with his actual designs and not the percent effort that they think went into it.  But just wanting really bad to be on the show doesn't mean that you should automatically get on, nor that it should have any impact on those who are on the show.  Swapnil did the show for his own reasons, not so that he could make all the people who didn't make the cut feel better about themselves.

 

If Tim is so personally invested maybe he should have taken a backseat as mentor on this challenge.  I don't remember him yelling at Ven even though Ven was a nightmare to his client.

Edited October 10, 2015 by RCharter

[slothgirl]

On one of the other threads (either Tim's or Swapnils) someone pointed out that it was Swapnil's model who said she was voted by co-workers as being someone who needed a make-over. I'd be pretty unhappy and pissy too if that happened to me. I'd be even more humiliated if the designer I was assigned to immediately implied that I wasn't AT ALL sexy and that need to be fixed by turning me into a bombshell. And I can see how she might not have had any concrete ideas about what she wanted plus felt awkward and uncomfortable for the whole thing.

 

It's been mentioned that she rolled her eyes at some point. I don't want to have to (EVER) watch the episode again so maybe someone can remind me what that was about. Was she shown in the same shot as something else going on or was it a cut to her rolling her eyes?

[film noire]

Like Duggar-ware?  

 

Hee! (“Designers, you need to create a look that’s perfect for the moment your client’s husband tells her he’s a cheater. Because they couldn't make it work.”) I'm thinking about the whole modesty movement in fashion-- the kind of stuff mikarose is doing -- elegant, pretty,  flattering, but not super revealing.  And I'd be *really* interested (not that PR could treat it with respect or do it justice) to see a "haute hijab" challenge -- I find this whole fashion trend + religious wear fascinating:

 

https://instagram.com/p/7v_JEpjSWv/

 

And stylists like  Adi Heyman, an orthodox Jew (covers collarbone, elbows and knees, and wears blonde wig):

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/23/fashion/fabologies-adi-heyman-promotes-modest-fashion.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3As%2C%7B%222%22%3A%22RI%3A12%22%7D&_r=1

Edited October 10, 2015 by film noire

[slothgirl]

If Tim is so personally invested maybe he should have taken a backseat as mentor on this challenge.  I don't remember him yelling at Ven.

He even decided that the showdown between Ken and Howdy-doody (whatever that guy's name was) should be a draw and they should both take the blame, even though Ken was even rough with the crew members (that Tim claims to love). He sat them all down to talk it out as though Ken wasn't a psycho.

 

When you think about some of the outrageous behavior we've seen on this show, the thing with Swapnil incurring Tim's wrath makes no sense. Where was his wrath when Orange Josh left fellow contestants in tears berating them like a bully? But of course, he was there for whassername from India who claimed every episode that she was being bullied, and Helen of Cry.

 

I could see it if Tim were prone to exasperated outbursts, that he came to Swapnil LAST for the consult and Swapnil did NOTHING to get better prepared while waiting his turn. But this was a major WTF situation and I'll bet if it comes up at all on the reuinion show either:

 

Swapnil won't be there and it will get explained by Tim justifying himself with no way to get Swapnil's version, or it will go unmentioned.

 

or: Swapnil WILL be there and he will be all contrite and tow a party line about Tim being right.

 

Regardless, I'll bet we will never know any more than we know right now.

Edited October 10, 2015 by slothgirl

[RCharter]

He even decided that the showdown between Ken and Howdy-doody (whatever that guy's name was) should be a draw and they should both take the blame, even though Ken was even rough with the crew members (that Tim claims to love). He sat them all down to talk it out as though Ken wasn't a psycho.

 

When you think about some of the outrageous behavior we've seen on this show, the thing with Swapnil incurring Tim's wrath makes no sense. Where was his wrath when Orange Josh left fellow contestants in tears berating them like a bully? But of course, he was there for whassername from India who claimed every episode that she was being bullied, and Helen of Cry.

 

I could see it if Tim were prone to exasperated outbursts, that he came to Swapnil LAST for the consult and Swapnil did NOTHING to get better prepared while waiting his turn. But this was a major WTF situation and I'll bet if it comes up at all on the reuinion show either:

 

Swapnil won't be there and it will get explained by Tim justifying himself with no way to get Swapnil's version, or it will go unmentioned.

 

or: Swapnil WILL be there and he will be all contrite and tow a party line about Tim being right.

 

Regardless, I'll bet we will never know any more than we know right now.

Ken, and Alexander, and the case of the face mask while ironing booty shorts.  And IIRC Ken had multiple outbursts and zero talent.  How that got better treatment from Tim is a mystery to me.  I can't even with Helen of Cry or Michelle or Leyana.  But of course, Tim is besties with Michelle who was downright cruel to Patricia.

 

I think you're right on the money about the reunion.  Swapnil will sit around apologizing while Tim attempts to justify his behavior.  Same as with UTG.  At some point people are going to realize that it probably Tim and not always the designer.

[Tony]

Swapnil deserved to be sent home for that stupid capelet alone.

 

I didn't see his crew-member as being uncooperative at all. She wanted her arms and legs covered. That's not a totally outrageous request. He could have made a floor length dress or pants and a long-sleeve top. Instead, he was totally dead set on this bombshell vision and completely ignored her wishes. In the end, he wasted most of the first day and came up with a butt-ugly look. Moron.

[millennium]

If this show has taken a hit it's the shows fault.  You can't pack a show with one day challenges and expect anything good to come of it.

 

This show only has itself to blame for its decline in reputation. It's also not Swapnil's fault that PR chose him over other designers.  I'm assuming they picked him because of his body of work.  I don't think he took some blood oath to "give 100% effort at all times."  

 

 

That's pretty much what I meant when I wrote:

 

 

Of course, it's the show's own fault.   This is what they get for dumbing down the concept and making the show on the cheap.

 

Personally, I suspect designers for Project Runway are chosen in a similar fashion to contestants on Survivor: The show designates a "type" they want in the mix for the current season, then casts someone who fits the suit -- the Johnny Bravo Syndrome.  The Fat Girl, the Goth Girl, the Black Girl, the Mean Girl, the Mom, the Serious Guy, the Narcissist, the Ethnic Guy, etc.   I don't believe talent is the most important prerequisite of being on PR -- and it's dropping further down the list of priorities with each subsequent season.   Which is why this season is such crap.

Edited October 10, 2015 by millennium

[rallymantis]

Swapnil didn't handle it well, but I understood why he was frustrated.  Her upper arm issue is really located between her ears.

 

I have spent a number of hours at a medium-priced major retailer, trying to make rent by flogging jeans.   Some women look in the mirror and see their thighs where their face should be -- it was my job to get them to understand that FIT > Size.  So on that very basic level, I was really on the side of the designers in this competition.  

The previous diva behavior from such "normal" women as teens and moms -- I get; but crew members? please tell me it was a set-up; after watching this kind of shit go down for [fill-in-the-blank] years you've been gaffer-ing, then I'm sorry -- if you thought it would somehow be "different" for you, you were never paying attention.

[RCharter]

That's pretty much what I meant when I wrote:

 

 

 

Personally, I suspect designers for Project Runway are chosen in a similar fashion to contestants on Survivor: The show designates a "type" they want in the mix for the current season, then casts someone who fits the suit -- the Johnny Bravo Syndrome.  The Fat Girl, the Goth Girl, the Black Girl, the Mean Girl, the Mom, the Serious Guy, the Narcissist, the Ethnic Guy, etc.   I don't believe talent is the most important prerequisite of being on PR -- and it's dropping further down the list of priorities with each subsequent season.   Which is why this season is such crap.

 

Well, if thats what the show is doing than Tim shouldn't be upset at the designers since they aren't chosen for their talent.  In fact he shouldn't really care at all that anyone is or is not working up to their potential because he would know the show isn't about talent anymore.  That would make Tim's yelling at Swapnil even less understandable to me.  If you're upset that you have more talented designers who audition but don't make it, that's not Swapnil's fault, that's production's fault so Tim needs to take it up with them or quit.  

 

However, I think Swapnil is very talented, based on some of his stuff on the show and a lot of his other work.  His FW collection looks beautiful.

[millennium]

Sometimes when the walls are closing in, you just lash out.    It would have shown more character and bought Tim more empathy had he apologized to Swapnil afterwards, rather than doubling down on the assholery and telling the group  "That was a harsh session -- but you needed it." 

 

I wish Swapnil's designs had reflected more of his native India. 

[film noire]

 She wanted her arms and legs covered. That's not a totally outrageous request. He could have made a floor length dress or pants and a long-sleeve top. Instead, he was totally dead set on this bombshell vision and completely ignored her wishes. In the end, he wasted most of the first day and came up with a butt-ugly look. Moron.

 

Swapnil could not have done a floor length dress, because the asshole client wanted day into evening -- nobody wears a floor length dress to work.

 

He could not have done a jacket and pant, because the client didn't want any drama, and drama  is the only way to transition a pantsuit from day to night -- minus the drama, the asshole client would've looked like Hillary Clinton doing a meet and greet at an IHOP in Iowa.

 

He could not have done a classic take on prim, because the asshole client also wanted "flirty" (but no limbs showing).

 

She laid her contradictory wishes out -- like she was playing a game of demented Fashion Mad Libs -- and then Tim had his bitter little rage-a-thon, and Swapnil was toast. And the real morons are the monkeys-in-charge at PR, for thinking anybody but a dimwit will buy this fabricated (no pun intended) bullshit storyline.

Edited October 10, 2015 by film noire

[jnymph]

All I know is if Swapnil was designing for me: I'd let Swapnil be Swapnil...... and I'd rock it.

I think the guy is genius. Lazy at times, but genius.

[RCharter]

I'm betting Swapnil doesn't do that. As I recall, Alexandria, even though she was beset by the bullies encouraged by Tim on the reunion show, kept her dignity and her sense of humor and didn't cave.  I think, I hope he has enough self-respect to not show up or to give his side without engaging Tim in further nonsense.  I'm not defending Swapnil, his work ethic, or his designs, but I don't think he owes Tim an apology.  Unless they didn't show it, the aggression (irritation, frustration, whatever you want to call it) was all on Tim's side.

He doesn't owe Tim an apology, but unless he wants to be talked over and harassed during the reunion I think its going to all be edited to make him look awful and to make Tim look like "tough love Tim that was forced into a corner by evil, smoking Swapnil."

 

And if Tim is getting any backlash over his treatment of Swapnil, he is going to make sure that the story at the reunion is "poor Tim Gunn, who just cares so much he had to dress down this designer in front of a client, he was forced into his mean girl behavior because he just cares so much."  "Poor Tim Gunn, who had to do everything in his power to crush a designers soul because the designer produced top three looks week after week without working at 100% effort."  Poor, poor put upon Tim Gunn.

 

And Swapnil isn't as petty and vindictive as Tim Gunn, so I think he might just say whatever so that he doesn't have to be in some sort of battle.

[Freckledbruh]

 

It's been mentioned that she rolled her eyes at some point. I don't want to have to (EVER) watch the episode again so maybe someone can remind me what that was about. Was she shown in the same shot as something else going on or was it a cut to her rolling her eyes?

 

During the hair and makeup consultation while Swapnil and the MUA are discussing what look to do she clearly rolls her eyes.

 

Swapnil deserved to be sent home for that stupid capelet alone.

 

I would rather wear a caplet than an ill fitting top with a peplum that makes me look like I have twenty jelly rolls because it keeps riding up. Ashley should have been toast.

[pasdetrois]

Maybe we'll have a Tim Gunn Save twist: in next week's episode Tim feels bad that he humiliated Swapnil and they bring him back.

 

I still think Swapnil was originally scripted to be the winner, or at least show at Fashion Week, and he went off-script (got lazy, distracted, etc.) and they're all mad at him.

 

Thanks for the Where Are They Now link. Interesting that I don't remember the last six winners at all.

 

Anyone else see that odd little show that Austin and Santino did? They drove into small towns and made an outfit for a local. They slept in bizarre BnBs and made do with local fabric stories.

[mansonlamps]

Swapnil could not have done a floor length dress, because the asshole client wanted day into evening -- nobody wears a floor length dress to work.

 

He could not have done a jacket and pant, because the client didn't want any drama, and drama  is the only way to transition a pantsuit from day to night -- minus the drama, the asshole client would've looked like Hillary Clinton doing a meet and greet at an IHOP in Iowa.

 

He could not have done a classic take on prim, because the asshole client also wanted "flirty" (but no limbs showing).

 

She laid her contradictory wishes out -- like she was playing a game of demented Fashion Mad Libs -- and then Tim had his bitter little rage-a-thon, and Swapnil was toast. And the real morons are the monkeys-in-charge at PR, for thinking anybody but a dimwit will buy this fabricated (no pun intended) bullshit storyline.

Is it possible you think Swapnil's client was an asshole? :)

I think Swapnil was the asshole frankly based on what I saw. In this situation, he was supposed to be the professional working for a client. We all work with assholes from time to time and have to adjust our attitude to deal with them if we are supposed to be the leader in the situation. He started with his only aesthetic "bombshell" immediately and continued to go with that way too long. Hey, Swapnil, not everyone needs or wants to be a bombshell.

If he had taken the time to try to put her in her comfort zone and made a better effort to befriend and understand her and really forge a client relationship, I think they could have worked together a lot better. He straight up said "the kind of person Jen is is not the kind of designer I am." Way to work with your client. IMO his own arrogance did him in.

[Honey]

If you look in the Swapnil thread, it is said that Tim went to the judges several times behind the scenes asking them to cut Swapnil because he thought he was lazy (not because of his actual work) which is why Zac had those out of nowhere comments about how they had to deal with Swapnil's "mediocrity" week after week. That to me completely taints this season. The designers should be judged on their output and not on what the mentor thinks of their work ethic. The whole episode (after knowing this) looked like a staged, clunky producer driven storyline.

"It is said" by whom?  Is there a cite for that?  I'm not likely to believe something like that without some proof to back it up.

 

I miss how much fun the show used to be.  Remember when Jay's model was a no-show for the USPS uniform challenge?  Austin Scarlett stepped up to model his design.  Also, I'm trying to picture what Santino would have said to Tim, if he had yelled at him like he did Swapnil.  Lol

[Freckledbruh]

"It is said" by whom?  Is there a cite for that?  I'm not likely to believe something like that without some proof to back it up.

 

I miss how much fun the show used to be.  Remember when Jay's model was a no-show for the USPS uniform challenge?  Austin Scarlett stepped up to model his design.  Also, I'm trying to picture what Santino would have said to Tim, if he had yelled at him like he did Swapnil.  Lol

In the thread there is a link from an EW article where Tim says it. You can find the link in the thread.

[spaceytraci1208]

Also, I'm trying to picture what Santino would have said to Tim, if he had yelled at him like he did Swapnil. Lol

My guess? "Fuck you, Timmy!" (In his Tim Gunn impression voice for extra punch LMAO)

[seasick]

They don't pay the models though, while they probably had to pay the crew for speaking on camera.  Or does that rule apply on a reality show.

 

I actually think some of the designers would have difficulty fitting the dress forms.  There is something off about the techniques of transforming fabric to something that actually fits properly.

Are you sure they don't pay the models??   I would think they would have to.   Yes I would guess the crew members may get a rate for appearing on camera.   My remark about walking the dress forms rather than the models was me being snarky.  I wasn't serious..  

[Freckledbruh]

Are you sure they don't pay the models??   I would think they would have to.   Yes I would guess the crew members may get a rate for appearing on camera.   My remark about walking the dress forms rather than the models was me being snarky.  I wasn't serious..

It has probably changed now but before the models weren't paid and participated because if their designer won then that model would get featured in a photospread in Elle or Marie Claire. In one of the past seasons, a model just didn't show up one day because she got a paying job.

[TattleTeeny]

nobody wears a floor length dress to work.

 

Haha, I do! 1970s maxis almost every day!

 

Also, call me crazy but I really don't think Tim's impassioned speech was all that big of a deal, though I sort of think he should have sat that model down as well and told her to cut the shit too.

Edited October 10, 2015 by TattleTeeny

[candall]

Oh, gosh, I hope PR doesn't cast Survivor-style!  The jokers over on Survivor don't have a repertoire of clips showing how well they adapt to being stranded on an island.

 

I'm buying the Road to the Runway story, for the most part.  Once the designs they submit are approved, they get some camera time for sifting out who's drama and who's dud.

 

The fatal flaw comes down, AGAIN, to the loony tune pace that's now standard PR.  My favorite designer of all was Patricia, with her beautiful handworked textiles, but good grief, that was a time-consuming, painstaking process.  Not a good match if she only has time to hot glue one bead before it's off to the runway.

 

But I have an idea!

 

They could stretch out the season, without inconveniencing Heidi, by adding a final quick flash challenge, which would be televised as several pre-show shows, like the lengthy auditions for the singing competitions.  It would make for a more accurate criteria than two minutes of sucking up to Mondo and ultimately they will have recruited a dozen designers who have demonstrated they can whip out something interesting under crazy time pressure.

 

This show could be fun again if they'd just own up and cast for the skills being judged:   ability to come up with a neat design on a moment's notice and being able to sew it together at the speed of sound.  If your style is hand-stitching elegant haute couture, don't bother.

 

Drawback:  the judges would have to stop insisting that Project Runway is crowning the best young designer America has to offer every year, but they blew that up ages ago. 

[backgroundnoise]

To come this far in the season and find your brand hinging on the creative output  of five or six complete incompetents must have them in a state of constant anxiety.

Well, regardless of percent effort, Swapnil was producing some of the most beautiful garments this show has seen in a while, IMO.  I just don't get Tim.  Swapnil wasn't embarrassing the show in any way, either in his clothes or attitude. 

 

Instead, he was totally dead set on this bombshell vision

While I didn't really care for his original sketch or top, it was pretty tame for a bombshell.  It had long sleeves and a knee length skirt.  If she didn't like the back because she couldn't wear a bra without it showing, he could have fixed it.   He wasn't proposing putting her in a replicate of his leopard dress.  And putting zippers on sleeves is hardly bombshell, I think he was just trying to make it more interesting.  Her complaining about those was silly.

 

I'm not saying Swapnil couldn't have communicated better.  But so could have she.  And Tim should have tried to help the situation instead of exacerbating it for his own ends.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Personally, I suspect designers for Project Runway are chosen in a similar fashion to contestants on Survivor: The show designates a "type" they want in the mix for the current season, then casts someone who fits the suit -- the Johnny Bravo Syndrome.  The Fat Girl, the Goth Girl, the Black Girl, the Mean Girl, the Mom, the Serious Guy, the Narcissist, the Ethnic Guy, etc.   I don't believe talent is the most important prerequisite of being on PR -- and it's dropping further down the list of priorities with each subsequent season.   Which is why this season is such crap.

 

I wish Swapnil's designs had reflected more of his native India.

 

You think it's crap that Swapnil was casted as The Ethnic Guy yet you also wished he would design reflecting his native India?  Who cares what an artist is inspired by as long as the result is great.  A lot of designers are influenced by India from time to time and they don't actually have to be from there.  I think people usually get their inspiration not necessarily from where they've spent their whole life.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Honey]

Oh yeah. He said so himself. He frequently said things about how Santino sucked the air out of the room, was obnoxious, tiresome, a problem child. He was relieved that Santino didn't win season 2 (and he should have) because then Project Runway would be "Project Freakshow". He did not like Santino AT ALL.

My google fu is failing me, and I really tried, but I can't anything about this.  Could you point me to where you saw this quote from Tim?

[Honey]

In the thread there is a link from an EW article where Tim says it. You can find the link in the thread.

I'm sorry, what thread?  There are dozens of them.  Lol

[Freckledbruh]

I'm sorry, what thread?  There are dozens of them.  Lol

The Swapnil thread

[BrittaBot]

 

Well, regardless of percent effort, Swapnil was producing some of the most beautiful garments this show has seen in a while, IMO.  I just don't get Tim.  Swapnil wasn't embarrassing the show in any way, either in his clothes or attitude.

Yeah, there just HAS to be something else going on behind the scenes. This is reality tv. It is very easy to edit someone in a negative, or positive manner. To me, it is telling that despite Tim, the judges, and the producers' best efforts, a good portion of PR viewers still find Swapnil to be a decent, okay guy. What I'm trying to say is that if he was as "evil" as they say, then couldn't they have found better footage to show him to be as evil as he was?

 

I don't get the lazy thing either. Tim is acting like Swapnil personally went out and murdered his family. So he didn't work up to his potential and didn't have things ready in time. Again…he didn't murder anyone. This literally makes no sense to me.

 

Candice's outfit made me want to barf. I don't get what the judges see in her. They think she's all great but really what has she produced this season that's any good? I hope the top 3 is Kelly, Edmund…..and I don't really know Merline I guess, because I'm starting to dislike Ashley and I hate Candice.