S03.E02: Whispers In The Dark

[CooperTV]

Wasn't Ichy the one, who brought up his affair with Sexy!Smart!Betsy! in the past? It's not Abbie's fault that he has no boundaries.

No, actually, she and Jennie were teasing him he and Betsy had been doing it.

 

Crane: Her role as a seamstress was a cover. Betsy was a woman of many talents.

Abbie: So we've heard. Betsy and Crane kind of were a thing.

Crane: We were not a "thing." She was my colleague, my compatriot, my partner. Often in crime.

Jennie: Mm-hmm. Sounds like a thing. (and Abbie looking all smirky and smug).

[CalamityBoPeep]

 (and how Abbie took Crane to live with her but her sister still lives in a trailer).

 

I wondered about that for a second, then head-canoned that Jenny probably would prefer living in her camper.  It's portable, after all... just need to tow it where she wants to park it.  (At least, I'm pretty sure it was a camper and not a plumbed in trailer, set up on blocks.  Might have to have a second look.)

 

She might also think that if she and Abby lived together, it'd start feeling like a little too much.  She's the one with the restless trait, and might prefer to feel like she can up and leave whenever she wants.

 

But yeah.. head canon is all well and good, but it might have been nice to give it a sentence of dialogue.

[Indi]

No, actually, she and Jennie were teasing him he and Betsy had been doing it.

 

Crane: Her role as a seamstress was a cover. Betsy was a woman of many talents.

Abbie: So we've heard. Betsy and Crane kind of were a thing.

Crane: We were not a "thing." She was my colleague, my compatriot, my partner. Often in crime.

Jennie: Mm-hmm. Sounds like a thing. (and Abbie looking all smirky and smug).

 

No, I mean Abbie never asked him about Betsy. Ichy told her about his affair with her a couple of times before. There was nothing to keep to himself last episode, because he had offered that information already without prompting. Abbie has boundaries and that's why she didn't want to talk about her relationship with Daniel, the same way she didn't want to talk about her relationship with Luke, when Ichabod was nosy about it.

[catrox14]

Just rewatching.

 

The writers better explain Sexy!Betsy Ross in the next episode because lordy what?

 

Oh lordy. Sexy!Betsy Ross is a mess of a character at this early juncture. I can't blame it on the writers general failure to write good female characters because we have Abbie, Jenny, Caroline and even the new Pandora. And I'm not ready to put it solely on Nikki Reed if she is playing it like they want.

 

LIke others have suggested, I sure hope she is a woman out of time because otherwise Sexy!Betsy Ross is a bad character and the writers should feel bad.

[benteen]

I really enjoyed this episode and I'm very happy with the way Sleepy Hollow has started off.  The humor was good and the interaction between Crane and Abbie remain top-notch.  I liked the return of Joe and his interaction with Jenny.  The wraith was creepy, particularly in that scene where he appeared in the rear-view mirror.  I'm liking Pandora as the big bad and she continues to remain intriguing.

 

Reynolds seems like a good character that has a promising interaction with Abbie.  But I don't buy him going from the FBI Academy in nine months to being a regional chief.  Just not going to happen.  It would make far more sense if they had come up together in the police academy and would explain their current career paths.

 

And yeah, the Betsy Ross scene are just painful.

[Moonsky]

The porch scene with Abbie telling Ichabod about finding out that her father was still alive & not being able to confront him yet was gold. Nicole played the emotions that Abbie would be going through regarding that situation perfectly. Tom was also good in the scene.

 

Yes to more Abbie & Daniel scenes. Nicole & Lance have already work well together in the past so I had a feeling that would carry over to this show. They also seem to have a good friendship offscreen for years, so it's nice that they have a chance to work together again.

 

Yes to Jenny & Joe teaming up. I want to see what else they discover about Sheriff Corbin’s role in this whole story. I hope this storyline includes more flashbacks with Clancy Brown in them.

 

I’m really enjoying Pandora so far. I hope her storyline plays out well. I wasn't really engaged with the Betsy Ross scene last week & I feel the same way after seeing her in this episode. She’s supposed to be one of Washington’s best spies but that’s not really coming across in her scenes to me. So far, Pandora kind of feels like what Katrina could’ve been if she were written better & Betsy feels like the Katrina they had (but with the potential to be even worse) if the rest of the season follows similar patterns for these women like in episodes 1 & 2.

 

There was definitely something below the surface there with Abbie and Daniel.  I really liked how it was played -very nuanced.  And him commenting about her thing for accents?  Do tell!

 

 

I thought Daniel said what is it with women & their love of accents? I think his comment was about women in general & not necessarily about something specific to Abbie’s history but that could be the case too.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Moonsky

[bethy]

No, I mean Abbie never asked him about Betsy. Ichy told her about his affair with her a couple of times before. There was nothing to keep to himself last episode, because he had offered that information already without prompting. Abbie has boundaries and that's why she didn't want to talk about her relationship with Daniel, the same way she didn't want to talk about her relationship with Luke, when Ichabod was nosy about it.

 

But was it an affair? My impression when he's talked about Betsy before was that she pursued him? And he hid in closets? I may be remembering that incorrectly, though.

 

Abbie definitely has better - or maybe more entrenched - boundaries than Ichabod does. I liked that Ichabod was respectful in testing those boundaries, prompting her (kind of hilariously to me) to share and that she let him in.

[frenchtoast]

But was it an affair? My impression when he's talked about Betsy before was that she pursued him? And he hid in closets? I may be remembering that incorrectly, though.

 

Abbie definitely has better - or maybe more entrenched - boundaries than Ichabod does. I liked that Ichabod was respectful in testing those boundaries, prompting her (kind of hilariously to me) to share and that she let him in.

That's how I remembered it. So Crane's flummoxed reaction seems spot on. Though I really don't need to see any more Betsy. In the hands of better writers/a better actress it might be good--she could be the Agent Carter of the Revolution. As it is, she sticks out like a sore thumb. But, I can bear with it if I get scenes with Jenny and Abby and Crane and Daniel and Joe. Even Pandora is the right kind of kooky for this show. I'm just not feeling this Betsy Ross...at all.

[Helena Dax]

The actress playing Betsy Ross isn't very good, but my main problem with her is that we've  been through two seasons with flashbacks without her and suddenly now she's near Ichabod all the time.  It feels  forced. But other than that, I loved the episode. Baby Corbin is cute and I  liked his scenes  with Jenny.  The new boss and Pandora  are okay. And  Ichabod  and Abbie are still great together. I love them as roomates and their last scene at the porch was amazing. The actors did a brilliant  job and they looked gorgeous.

 

To me, it's hard to believe that Ichabod would marry someone just to get the green card. I don't think he can understand the concept ·"it's legal, but we aren't really married". Besides, isn't that a crime? I don't think Abbie would  like that. 

[cynic]

When he called her his "constant companion", I was like wait, what the what now? 

[theatremouse]

"Pay no attention to the last season behind the curtain" kinda thing going on here. I'm not sure I mind.

[jhlipton]

Well, these two have actually appeared in a TV movie together - Lost in Austin. Mison played Bingley, and Arterton played Elizabeth Bennett. They did have a few scenes together, but not romantic. Actually, in that show, I didn't think Arterton was good in the role, but Mison was awesome. 

 

 Crane calling Marcus Collins a turn coat?? Dude, YOU were a turncoat. That is exactly what you were by choosing the "American" side. It's like the writers forgot that Crane was originally a British soldier..

 

I didn't care for Lost in Austen -- it had the problem of Pride and Prejudice ("We want to be in Society and mock it at the same time) dialed to 1000.  Anf for someone who supposedly loved P&P and its times, she was awfully unprepared and awfully antagonistic when she got there.  Elizabeth was the star of that movie.

 

I actually commented on that to hubby while watching "I guess NB has now earned the whole sex appeal with loads of cleavage role" And hubby says, "Well, I'm not saying I mind..."

I'm with hubby!

[TimetoShine]

I'm glad the show is back and I'm going to continue to watch but this episode was pretty boring. I fell asleep the first time through and had to re-play the last 15 minutes. I like Joe and think he's an ok addition but I'm not really feeling much else. Crane is always nice to watch, Abby is a good companion and I've found that I enjoy Jenny as well but the stories haven't captured me. (I don't care about Abby and Jenny's dad. Pandora is pretty lame.)

 

I will give it some more time but these first 2 episodes aren't worth a rewatch.

[Fiddler1]

I'm back in --- maybe it's just that I'm so glad to be done with Katrina and Henry, but it felt more like the Sleepy Hollow I loved back in Season 1.  Crane vacuuming was worth watching for (awesome GIF, HalcyonDays!)   I think I like the idea of Pandora, but boy, Betsy Ross....uh uh.  Jarring -- she takes me right out of the story. 

 

On a shallow note, I kind of miss Ichabod's ponytail, but at least the coat and boots remain.  That scene in the first episode when he changes from his orange prison outfit and we see him sort of backlit, putting on his coat --- I think I may have cheered. ;) 

 

Edited to add:  I'll be in the 'real' Sleepy Hollow Friday night taking a candlelight cemetery tour!

Edited October 12, 2015 by Fiddler1

[HalcyonDays]

On a shallow note, I kind of miss Ichabod's ponytail, but at least the coat and boots remain.  That scene in the first episode when he changes from his orange prison outfit and we see him sort of backlit, putting on his coat --- I think I may have cheered. ;)

 

Thought I'd miss the long hair too, but no, it's much better. Because it can actually be combed properly between takes - since it's Mison's REAL hair. And it's a good length for him. I approve.

 

Edited to add:  I'll be in the 'real' Sleepy Hollow Friday night taking a candlelight cemetery tour!

 

OMG! That is the coolest thing! I love (and honour) old graveyards. I don't know what morbidness draws me to them but...Anyway, that tour sounds amazing and something I would LOVE to do - please share the details in Small Talk! /curious, interested and fascinated!!

[Johnny Dollar]

Not only did Betsy Ross design the first American flag, but she apparently also invented false eyelashes. I've been to the Betsy Ross house in Philly a few times, but must have missed her makeup table.

[Fiddler1]

Thought I'd miss the long hair too, but no, it's much better. Because it can actually be combed properly between takes - since it's Mison's REAL hair. And it's a good length for him. I approve.

 

 

OMG! That is the coolest thing! I love (and honour) old graveyards. I don't know what morbidness draws me to them but...Anyway, that tour sounds amazing and something I would LOVE to do - please share the details in Small Talk! /curious, interested and fascinated!!

Will do!

[blixie]

I didn't hate this episode but outside the Ichabbie scenes it showed why Metzner's ass should have been out the door along with Goffman.

[phoenics]

They could totally do clip on extensions with Mison if they desperately need him to have long hair too.

[BestestAuntEver]

SBR is everything negative thing mentioned previously as of now, I have nothing to add.

I am liking Pandora, Joe and Daniel. Abbie and Daniel have a nice energy. I definitely see chemistry there.

Ichabbie still have IT! Crane, stepping up to Abby during the Daniel introduction and side eyeing him long and hard when he left was well played.

The ending porch scene was awesome with its simplicity. Crane on the porch swing with a night cap. Abbie walking around the house and porch barefoot. Comfortable in their skin and living space. Truthful conversation, trust in their sharing and support for their secrets.

They should just ditch SBR and bring back the actress that played Caroline as her twin sister Carol, Cheryl, etc to interact with Crane.

Edited October 12, 2015 by BestestAuntEver

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

It Has A Hollow Ring
Do the SH writers have a plan?

[Neurochick]

Why does this show even need Betsy Ross?  I get why Pandora is there but Betsy Ross is useless.

[Yolapukka]

My theory (and I'm sticking to it) is Betsy is mainly intended to be comic relief plus a side of madcap action and eye-candy. Unfortunately someone forgot to write much in the way of actual humour into that part of the script and Nikki Reed's attempt at comic timing makes Betsy seem funny-peculiar, not funny-ha-ha.  I appreciate the idea of the events of the past informing the present, but rather than support the main story, the Tales Of Betsy are so far sucking energy and momentum out of the narrative. 

[WearyTraveler]

Why does this show even need Betsy Ross?  I get why Pandora is there but Betsy Ross is useless.

 

FWIW, I posited my theory as to her purpose in the media thread, where one of the current discussions is an interview with NR.

[fantique]

I thought Daniel said what is it with women & their love of accents? I think his comment was about women in general & not necessarily about something specific to Abbie’s history but that could be the case too.

I thought so too!

 

I didn't hate this episode but outside the Ichabbie scenes it showed why Metzner's ass should have been out the door along with Goffman.

Yeah...still bitter about his continued presence on the show. And of course it's his episode where sexy Betsy walks about in her underwear and walk of shames it with Howe's jacket.

[cynic]

...

Reynolds seems like a good character that has a promising interaction with Abbie.  But I don't buy him going from the FBI Academy in nine months to being a regional chief.  Just not going to happen.  It would make far more sense if they had come up together in the police academy and would explain their current career paths.

...

Yeah, I definitely would have preferred your explanation, because recruit to regional chief in nine months is just flat out unbelievable. Even Abbie's huge office considering her rookie status makes me roll my eyes a bit, but the regional chief thing is beyond the pale. They could have at least made him a supervisor or something a tad more realistic. 

 

I was just rewatching the scene when Daniel gets introduced again (okay, so this might have been like the fifth or sixth time that I've rewatched it) and gosh it makes me laugh. I really like the chemistry between Daniel and Abbie, but what I love about the scene is Crane's reaction. Plenty of you guys have remarked on the territorial-ness of his remarks and his move to hover behind her, but I just have to comment on it one more time because I enjoy it so much. Plus, when he introduces himself, his voice is super pretentious and like half an octave deeper than usual. Heh! 

[Miss Dee]

I don't see it as territorial so much as protective. From Ichabod's perspective: this dude strolls up and gets all kinds of familiar with the Lieutenant; Ichabod immediately picks up on the bit of discomfort and self-consciousness she shows but is (accidentally or willfully) unobservant of the fact she's pleased as well.

This is someone who's already been established as wanting to repay her for all she's done for him; who will be established later in the episode as wanting to share her burdens and be there for her to lean on. It's not hard to see him interpreting Daniel's friendliness as overfamiliarity and immediately reacting in a protective, "Is this guy bothering you?" manner. "Oh by the way, she's not alone, she's got me. Oh by the way, WE LIVE TOGETHER. So don't try anything funny, buddy."

And when Abbie tells him to get lost, what does he do? Immediately backs down and excuses himself. He doesn't double down on the behavior, which is what tells me he's not trying to be territorial, just protective. Once he realizes it's not needed, he stops.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

To be honest, I wasn't that impressed with Shannyn Sossamon when I first saw her in A Knight's Tale, but compared to Nikki Cox she is doing an amazing job. I think the problem with Betsy Ross is partly the writing (they are trying too hard to make her into a tough badass chick) but mostly the acting, line delivery, and her speech patterns. She just sounds like a chick at the mall trying to sound hot. It's not only distracting but it's so bad that I get secondhand embarrassment while watching her scenes. I feel like they're dropping Robin Scherbatsky into a not so funny scene.

 

I find it interesting that in many ways, Ichabod is the more conservative/strait-laced of the two yet he has always been an open book with Abbie, willing to answer all her questions and talk about his life before he met her. Meanwhile, Abbie is the one who lives in the modern age of oversharing but she is the one putting up fences and not wanting to tell him about her relationship with David. It was very sweet to see Ichabod share his secret with her and then gently coax her into telling hers.

 

I like Joe so I'm good with him coming back to be Jenny's new demon fighting friend. He is much more low key than Hawley who was a bit of a try hard. Bonus points to Joe for not hitting on Jenny (which would be kind of gross since they see each other as family).

[tennisgurl]

Betsy just seems like the writers are trying to write an Anti-Katrina, to make the audience just forget about that whole debacle from last year. She isn't some demure witch who was always being captured! Shes spunky! She has sex! She likes action! 

 

When, in actuality,shes still pretty boring, just in different ways. Shes basically a Colonial Cool Girl, like from that speech in Gone Girl. Shes s super fiesty, sex having badass that just do not give a shit about being a girlie girl, unless shes flirting for the cause, of course. 

 

The rest of the episode was pretty good, if you ignore all the pointless Betsy stuff. Abby and Ichabod had some nice moments, Ichy sings a sea shanty, and Pandora continues to be creepy. 

[Watermelon]

To be honest, I wasn't that impressed with Shannyn Sossamon when I first saw her in A Knight's Tale, but compared to Nikki Cox she is doing an amazing job. I think the problem with Betsy Ross is partly the writing (they are trying too hard to make her into a tough badass chick) but mostly the acting, line delivery, and her speech patterns. She just sounds like a chick at the mall trying to sound hot. It's not only distracting but it's so bad that I get secondhand embarrassment while watching her scenes. I feel like they're dropping Robin Scherbatsky into a not so funny scene.

 

I find it interesting that in many ways, Ichabod is the more conservative/strait-laced of the two yet he has always been an open book with Abbie, willing to answer all her questions and talk about his life before he met her. Meanwhile, Abbie is the one who lives in the modern age of oversharing but she is the one putting up fences and not wanting to tell him about her relationship with David. It was very sweet to see Ichabod share his secret with her and then gently coax her into telling hers.

 

I like Joe so I'm good with him coming back to be Jenny's new demon fighting friend. He is much more low key than Hawley who was a bit of a try hard. Bonus points to Joe for not hitting on Jenny (which would be kind of gross since they see each other as family).

This whole Joe is Jenny's little brother thing is weird, because Abbie was the one who babysat him once she started getting in trouble but...wasn't Jenny locked up for being a crazy little girl? When did she have time to bond with Joe?

[HalcyonDays]

I find it interesting that in many ways, Ichabod is the more conservative/strait-laced of the two yet he has always been an open book with Abbie, willing to answer all her questions and talk about his life before he met her. Meanwhile, Abbie is the one who lives in the modern age of oversharing but she is the one putting up fences and not wanting to tell him about her relationship with David. It was very sweet to see Ichabod share his secret with her and then gently coax her into telling hers.

 

^^^ This. So this and so true. Love this comment.

 

[fantique]

I don't see it as territorial so much as protective. From Ichabod's perspective: this dude strolls up and gets all kinds of familiar with the Lieutenant; Ichabod immediately picks up on the bit of discomfort and self-consciousness she shows but is (accidentally or willfully) unobservant of the fact she's pleased as well.

This is someone who's already been established as wanting to repay her for all she's done for him; who will be established later in the episode as wanting to share her burdens and be there for her to lean on. It's not hard to see him interpreting Daniel's friendliness as overfamiliarity and immediately reacting in a protective, "Is this guy bothering you?" manner. "Oh by the way, she's not alone, she's got me. Oh by the way, WE LIVE TOGETHER. So don't try anything funny, buddy."

And when Abbie tells him to get lost, what does he do? Immediately backs down and excuses himself. He doesn't double down on the behavior, which is what tells me he's not trying to be territorial, just protective. Once he realizes it's not needed, he stops.

THANK YOU. I was having trouble reading that because it did not feel territorial to me (and it's not me being an anti-shipper) but at the same time the protective "I have you 6" stance (it felt more like defensiveness than possessiveness because he stood directly behind her and not next to or straight up in front of her like most men do when signalling "back off bro, she's taken") felt strange. I mean, why would he see Reynolds as a threat? Him picking up on her discomfort and being a source of support is a good interpretation of the scene and it reflects so much better on his character. The looking back and forth at them as he walks away cracked me up because he was so clearly wondering about their history.

 

Also, on podcast fandom -they were hilarious this week- they mentioned how they felt like Abbie was too short with him, especially when she told him to mind his business. I didn't think so because her voice sounded amused but did you guy feel she was too harsh on that one?

[Julia]

I think, although he meant well and she seemed to accept and be even mildly amused by the fact that he meant well, it kind of wasn't Ichabod's place to tell someone he didn't know the circumstances of their living situation. I just thought she was cutting off the overshare.

[Clanstarling]

I kind of feel bad for the real Betsy Ross' descendents.  It is one thing to poke a little fun at the known eccentricites of a historical figure (Ben Franklin), it is another thing to (hopefully) make someone a slutty spy and one that is poorly acted.

I don't know - an upgrade from a seamstress to a fictional "badass" revolutionary war ninja just might tickle them. I was disappointed not to find rakes and rogues in my family tree.

 

To be honest, I wasn't that impressed with Shannyn Sossamon when I first saw her in A Knight's Tale, but compared to Nikki Cox she is doing an amazing job.

Given the comparison, I can agree with that. Myself, though I like the concept of Pandora, am not enjoying Shannyn. It probably is totally unfair, since the only thing I remembered her from was the suck that was Wayward Pines. In any case, hopefully they'll delve into Pandora's motivation.The best villains are those who have a really good reason to be evil.

 

Someone upthread mentioned that Pandora's box was emptied (according to the legend). It looks like Pandora's actively adding evils to her box - she captured the Horseman this season.

 

I actually like MOW with a little arc thrown in occasionally, so I'm good with that. What made me slap my head (metaphorically) was the "safe" house where the lights would presumably protect the next target. Which would have been fine, except that Abbie and Ichabod encountered the dementor in broad daylight and were brought to their knees by it.

 

As for the shard of whatever it was, I think it will have an arc of its own. Jenny looked at it in the first episode and now it's been stolen. I like that she has something of her own to do, and hopefully it will tie into the season arc.

Edited October 15, 2015 by clanstarling

[cynic]

I'm still trying to figure out how Betsy fits into Crane's timeline. Crane was turned partly by Katrina. He was involved in the Boston Tea Party in December 1773. He "dies" while married to Katrina in 1781.Betsy's a member of the Culper spy ring, which started in late 1778 in real life (unless they're going to futz that to include her since she wasn't actually member). She was married from 1773 to 1776 and again from 1777 to 1782. 

 

If they did have a fling, there's not a lot of time they could have done it without one or both of them being unfaithful.

[jhlipton]

Also, on podcast fandom -they were hilarious this week- they mentioned how they felt like Abbie was too short with him, 

 

Well, he is 7'5" and she's 4' 2" so of course she's going to be short with him.  Thamkyew thankyew  -- I'll be here all week.

 

I saw Shannyn Sossamon in a movie called Wristcutters:  A Love Story and thought she did a good jiob. She was definitely one of the very few good things about Wayward Pines.

[Watermelon]

I'm still trying to figure out how Betsy fits into Crane's timeline. Crane was turned partly by Katrina. He was involved in the Boston Tea Party in December 1773. He "dies" while married to Katrina in 1781.Betsy's a member of the Culper spy ring, which started in late 1778 in real life (unless they're going to futz that to include her since she wasn't actually member). She was married from 1773 to 1776 and again from 1777 to 1782. 

 

If they did have a fling, there's not a lot of time they could have done it without one or both of them being unfaithful.

I don't think they ever have a fling. At most, maybe Betsy pushes up on Ichabod, but he rebuffs her.  I can see them getting around Betsy's marriages by saying it was for convenience, but they can't have Ichabod a cheater without a hell of a lot of hiccups.