S03.E02: Whispers In The Dark

[Mrs OldManBalls]

I'm really not feeling Betsy; maybe her manner of speech is too modern, I dunno.

Wow. Those Betsy Ross scenes are just ... not good. She changed clothes... why? If she wasn't distracting Howe "that way" why was she suddenly wearing what looked like the general's uniform? And the actress is badly cast, in my opinion. 

I’m not feeling Betsy Ross at all. Her scenes were terrible.  She added no value to the wraith storyline.

Betsy isn't necessary. At.All.

Dear God, Betsy Ross.  I don't know what it is... the voice or the acting choices... too much trying, I guess.  She's just not working for me.  Sure we got information about the wraith, but I found myself really wishing we could get back to the present day during those flashbacks. 

 

She is really bad. From every aspect; there is no one thing to tweak and make better, she's just wrong all around. 

 

 

SH was at its best when it was fun and ott, remember when they fought against a gun toting Headless Horseman instead of being low rent Supernatural doing creature of the week?

 

A SPN crossover would be fantastic? Castiel and Ichabod together??? 

 

Ian Somerhalder, please come get your wife.

  She makes Katia Winter look like fucking Meryl Streep.

No offense to Meryl? 

 

I just want everybody to know I can sing and have sung "Big Bow Wow" a capella. (It's an old sea shanty and that type of music is kept alive among folk singers in my part of the world.)

Now I want to be a drunk patron in that karaoke bar yelling at Ichabod: "General Taylor! Do General Taylor - no wait! Do Sam Hall! Sam Haalll!" (hiccups)

So yeah, I got a real kick out of that part.

 

I would love to see this. 

 

Pandora has me curious, I wonder what she's up to??? 

[DeLurker]

The bad:

Dear Gods Betsy Ross.  I was trying not to be negative.  I wasn't impressed last week, but thought maybe I was being harsh.  But damn.  She was bad.  Just terrible line reading, did not sound convincing.  She makes Katia Winter look like fucking Meryl Streep.

 

 

Betsy - honestly, the storyline better make her a 21st century woman sent to Crane's past somehow because there is no way I can accept that this kind of overtly modern shtick is anything but deliberate. These writers know how to create the more formal dialogue of the Civil-War era; we've seen ladies and how their actions follow suit. Betsy sticks out as so awkwardly current, she is *exactly* how one would picture a modern woman stuck in this time, who can take charge and take action but can't choose the right fabrics for her dress or figure out the nuances of this era of English. They *know* how to get the right atmosphere for Crane's time; this has got to be on purpose!

 

 

Betsy Ross? I just don't get it. I assume it's meant to be purely comedic and the humour is flying over my head or beneath my notice. Or something. As Phoenics said "she's so forced with Ichabod - are we supposed to be seeing romance there? LOL - cause all I see is the female version of Urkel trying to push up on Ichabod and failing." I suspect she's supposed to be goofy, mostly because that's the only explanation that works for me. Also, I don't think it's just her modern sounding manner of speaking that's a problem, her whole cadence was just really off, especially when she was flirting with Howe.  Was she supposed to be clumsy? That's certainly how it came off to me and yet that flirting somehow led to her running around in colonial underwear, go figure. Her line delivery when she yelled at the wraith was in the same camp of awfulness as Erika Kane telling off a bothersome bear. (Maybe someone spiteful recommended she use Charity Rahmer as an acting coach)

Betsy is a total fail - she's like the Party City version of Betsy Ross.  But now I have a perverse desire to see a short of the worst cast film (not based on SH) ever - Katia Winters and Nikki Reed will be in it.

 

I kind of feel bad for the real Betsy Ross' descendents.  It is one thing to poke a little fun at the known eccentricites of a historical figure (Ben Franklin), it is another thing to (hopefully) make someone a slutty spy and one that is poorly acted.  And why would she be at the Howe's get together?  Other than story needs.

 

I strongly object to the Erica Kane comparison.  Erica was awesome in her delusional fury.

 

I covet Abbie's porch.

[Julia]

Wow, Nikki Reed is bad....like really really bad. I think she might even be worse than Katia Winter. What were they thinking casting her? I don't know if she's better in modern day roles, but she sucks as a colonial woman. What the heck is going on with her voice? Is she trying to go for some kind of accent? Whatever it is, it doesn't sound remotely historical. And is she supposed to be bad at flirting? It came off like that scene in Focus where Margot Robbie is trying to show Will Smith her sexy con woman act and he was like "No. Did that feel sexy? Cuz no."

Nikki Reed played The Most Beautiful Girl In The World in the Twilight movies, which makes her the highest-profile sorta-celebrity who had an incentive to take the job because her brand new husband is also filming in GA.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Julia

[marie]

I'm truly wondering if they cast Nikki Reed because she already lives in Atlanta so it was convenient. Or if there's crew crossover between this and Vampire Diaries, so she had an in and got bumped up the casting line. Because she is really distractingly terrible.

[Primetimer]

Do the SH writers have a plan?

Read the story

[Kanner]

Such great Abbie/Ichabod scenes.  This is still working for me.  The porch scene was awesome.

 

I have decided to not think about the unrealistic portrayal of the FBI. (It is not that hard with the amount of FBI shows that I watch).  I will just be happy that Abbie was able to realize one of her dreams and right know it doesn't seem to be an issue that Ichabod is around at the crime scenes.

 

I like Daniel.  I liked Lance Gross on Crisis too.  Ichabod's reaction to him was so great.  The way he moved himself to stand behind Abbie had me smirking.

 

I was not crazy about the defeat of the MOTW.  If just seemed very quick and weird to me.

 

I guess with most everyone else, I will have to suffer through the Betsy Ross scenes.

[Free]

A SPN crossover would be fantastic? Castiel and Ichabod together???

 

It would make more sense than the Bones crossover.

[Writing Wrongs]

Ian Somerhalder, please come get your wife.

Thank you for the laugh. She really is terrible as Betsy Ross. I'm not sure what her point to the show is yet.

 

I feel more and more with supernatural shows that it becomes really hard to come up with new looking creatures. Most of these things like wraiths or whatever have been done by other shows like Supernatural. I think that's part of the reason why Constantine didn't make it. We've seen it all before.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Writing Wrongs

[caprice]

Okay, two more weeks and SH might become something I watch the day after so I can fast-forward through the SBR scenes. FFS, woman, just because some of the dialog seems to be modern, pick up on your leading man's cadences in the flashback scenes and slow things down. Society was absolutely more formal in Colonial days and the actress is simply not bringing that to her performance.

 

Other than that, yes, our leads still have it and I'm happy to see them on my screen. I have faith that the MOW storylines will have Jenny and Joe blended in before long. However, I like that he is being brought in slowly through what others here have beautifully described as a brother/sister-style relationship with Jenny. They work very well together.

 

I'm good with Pandora and that includes her rhyming speech. She's supposed to be casting spells, so as long as the rhymes stay there, I can deal.

[HalcyonDays]

Yep! One in particular I can think of is Gemma Arterton. I liked her in Hansel and Gretel and think she could've pulled this role off. Though she's movies not television and of course there's no way to know if she'd have chemistry with Mison.

 

Well, these two have actually appeared in a TV movie together - Lost in Austin. Mison played Bingley, and Arterton played Elizabeth Bennett. They did have a few scenes together, but not romantic. Actually, in that show, I didn't think Arterton was good in the role, but Mison was awesome. Which is why I really like him as an actor. Compare his looks and character beats in Lost in Austen to SH, and he looks and acts completely different. Completely different. This (and other stuff I've seen him in) is why I've dubbed him the "Chameleon" to me and an excellent actor.

 

Another part that rang a bit false to me (especially from watching TURN). The flashback where Crane says he was captured and almost gave up spy names. I know there is a lot of violence-washing in this show, but if Crane was captured, he sure as hell would've been jailed and beaten up/tortured if he refused to reveal the names. The shot of him at the table in fine clothes and they are waiting and he decides no - yeah right. Violence-washed. If he said "No, I will not reveal the name", like they wouldn't have beaten it out of him. Also, Crane calling Marcus Collins a turn coat?? Dude, YOU were a turncoat. That is exactly what you were by choosing the "American" side. It's like the writers forgot that Crane was originally a British soldier.

 

I liked the flashback, except BR. The girly voice, the attempts at being coy/flirty are not well done at all by NR. The rest are awesome.

 

Jealous Crane and LG's character thinking they are a couple! The opening scenes, the creepy shadow demon, the porch scene was all great.

[DeLurker]

I have decided to not think about the unrealistic portrayal of the FBI. (It is not that hard with the amount of FBI shows that I watch).  I will just be happy that Abbie was able to realize one of her dreams and right know it doesn't seem to be an issue that Ichabod is around at the crime scenes.

Based on tv, the FBI = Fictional Bureau of Investigations.

 

ETA:  I forgot!  Abbie's breasticles were more prominently displayed this ep.  It (they?) was the first thing I noticed when she was kneeling down in one of the early shots - maybe the place where the guy died?  And then again when she found the secret hidey hole in the floor of his house.  I'm thinking that is not accidental.

Edited October 9, 2015 by DeLurker

[ChromaKelly]

If it turns out that Betsy Ross is from modern times and got stuck in the colonial world, then that would explain her speech and out-of-place dress/actions. That would be kind of cool. But, I doubt that's the case.
Someone upthread mentioned that SBR yelling at the wraith reminded them of the bear video and YES! That's what it was. The way she was like "Go away, Marcus Collins!" was very much like "Go away, bear!" I'm really not digging SBR.
Other than SBR, I am liking this season so far.

[Free]

I feel more and more with supernatural shows that it becomes really hard to come up with new looking creatures. Most of these things like wraiths or whatever have been done by other shows like Supernatural. I think that's part of the reason why Constantine didn't make it. We've seen it all before.

 

Agreed, that's what made S1 so fresh and unique.

[DonitsYum]

I find it confusing as to why Pandora is even there, although I like the actress. It's all very confusing and the storyline changes are a jolt from the previous direction of the show.

Abbie's a Special Agent of the FBI already, who get's conveniently posted back to her hometown?? Crane showing up at the crime scenes when she was a local cop was plausible but having him tag along to FBI cases is just plain impossible.

[frenchtoast]

Based on tv, the FBI = Fictional Bureau of Investigations.

 

ETA:  I forgot!  Abbie's breasticles were more prominently displayed this ep.  It (they?) was the first thing I noticed when she was kneeling down in one of the early shots - maybe the place where the guy died?  And then again when she found the secret hidey hole in the floor of his house.  I'm thinking that is not accidental.

I actually commented on that to hubby while watching "I guess NB has now earned the whole sex appeal with loads of cleavage role" And hubby says, "Well, I'm not saying I mind..." 

[Yolapukka]

I do think at this point that the Betsy scenes are meant to be funny alternating with action, but the humour is falling flat, they need to tighten that up. In fact humour is something that is not so much missing as diminished on this season's Sleepy Hollow and it's a necessary ingredient for what makes this show work. There is still some present, so they can write to it. The Betsy scenes seem to have a similar intent to the Katrina scenes from season one; tying the present day to clues or events from the colonial past and enabling the Witnesses to identify the monster. They need to be better conceived and be fun to watch, not merely have the intent of fun. I agree with those who've posted that Betsy being a modern woman trapped in the past would be a good twist and allow us to hand-wave the many anachronisms clinging to her. (Also, bring on Ashburn, just saying)

 

I don't think we'll ever quite recover the insane magic of season 1, because Sleepy Hollow was fresh and new then, even if it had maintained a consistent tone it would no longer be so at this point. Still they could be a little more audacious at defying expectation. I think this week's MOW was scarier than last week's, (which was silly-looking except for the shots of it's slavering jaws), but there was very little that startled or amazed me, maybe the monster in the rearview mirror gave me a bit of a jump, that's it. There are two main problems with the monsters so far; One, we haven't been given enough opportunity to identify with the victims and fear for them as a consequence, after doing a nice job casting Abbie's doomed boss with C. Thomas Howell, they killed him off too quickly, that woman this week was kind of annoying and the other victims have verged on blink and you missed it. Two, we have no idea what Pandora's agenda is, other than gardening. It's not so much a mystery as an absence. There should be more that is worrying about her than her demon box.  Shannon Sossamyn is doing a wonderful job making the character sinister without moustache-twirling, but the character also needs writing that gives her a stronger persona.  She needs to be more than the designated provider of tribulation simply because she can unleash destructive entities, she needs purpose. Even though the writing last season was often stupid and inconsistent, I at least felt Moloch and Henry had purpose.

Edited October 9, 2015 by yuggapukka

[cynic]

I saw someone mention this somewhere and I can't stop thinking about it.

It's quite a coincidence that the name of the dementor was a person Crane know of from colonial times. And he also knew about last episode's monster from dealing with it before. Is Pandora's grand plan going to involve Crane explicitly? Because otherwise, trying to work in the flashbacks is going to get old and strained real quick.

The flashbacks in the previous seasons made sense because so much of the mythology was tied to Crane's life. Even before we know about Abraham and Henry, the horseman was linked to Crane through magic and their blood.

Unless there is a reason that Pandora's fixated on Crane, I don't see how they're going to keep justifying flashing back to him and Sexy Betsy. And it's really going to stretch credulity if they make it like Crane has encountered a ton of supernatural threats with Betsy when he was shown in the first season to not be really aware of all the threats.

[Yolapukka]

I saw someone mention this somewhere and I can't stop thinking about it.

It's quite a coincidence that the name of the dementor was a person Crane know of from colonial times. And he also knew about last episode's monster from dealing with it before. Is Pandora's grand plan going to involve Crane explicitly? Because otherwise, trying to work in the flashbacks is going to get old and strained real quick.

The flashbacks in the previous seasons made sense because so much of the mythology was tied to Crane's life. Even before we know about Abraham and Henry, the horseman was linked to Crane through magic and their blood.

Unless there is a reason that Pandora's fixated on Crane, I don't see how they're going to keep justifying flashing back to him and Sexy Betsy. And it's really going to stretch credulity if they make it like Crane has encountered a ton of supernatural threats with Betsy when he was shown in the first season to not be really aware of all the threats.

 

 

I think it can work if we fan-wank that a Witness (initially Ichabod) along with a second Witness partner to-be-named-later (likely a Dixon/Fredericks by blood) were fated to deal with the tribulations in Colonial times and because Katrina placed Ichabod into suspended animation, no other witness could take his place so the tribulations were deferred until he either died or awoke. If that's a starting point, then perhaps some of the antagonists and their minions were active in Colonial times.

Edited October 9, 2015 by yuggapukka

[Free]

I find it confusing as to why Pandora is even there, although I like the actress. It's all very confusing and the storyline changes are a jolt from the previous direction of the show.

 

Taking over Henry's role from last season?  So far there haven't been much of a connection.

[possibilities]

The Headless Horseman had personality-- and I don't mean Abraham, I mean the way that even stumbling around in the dark, the actor gave him character. When your demon of the week is just some smoky CGI, the writing has to be much more sophisticated, and we need to see Our Heroes do more than cower and quake and clutch their chests. They used to research, and plan, and discuss the implications of things. Now they are just basically flipping out and begging it to go away. Not nearly as interesting.

 

I liked the Wendigo because it also had character and story.

 

But these formless wraiths just randomly appearing and disappearing has no meaning. And Abbie and Ichabod being able to just dismiss them on the fly and sign with relief that they're gone is the thinnest of plotting ever! Even traditional ghost stories have more background than that.

 

Betsy Ross dresses like a tavern floozie, not a Daughter of the Revolution. If they want her to be a liberated woman and make a statement about the place of women in colonial times, they need to give her dialogue that consists of more than lusty chuckles in the direction of Crane. She needs to show something other than an offhand overconfidence on the battlefield, as well. Crane himself shows fear in the face of slaughter, and Ross comes off not as someone brave, but someone who thinks the whole thing is playing, not warfare. I have a feeling they want us to see her as Indiana Jones with Boobs, but she seems more like she doesn't take things seriously than like someone who's heroically tough.

[Sparkling Beth]

Like Slovenly Muse, I'm willing to give Betsy Ross a couple of more chances to see if the writers can make me understand why she's there, but I also agree with everyone else that as of now the character and the actress are not working.  If the situation doesn't improve soon, I think the show should write her off as quickly and cleanly as possible. 

 

Other than that, I've been very happy with the two episodes we've seen.  I think the show is back on track.

[Criminey]

I am a great fan of Tom, Nicole and Lyndie and I still enjoy this show if only to watch those three on my screen. It may be that Lance and Zack will become favorites as well. But, boy, does this show have issues.

First and foremost, as others have said, Betsy. To me it's part of the same issue Katia had, no direction. i mean I always thought a director or someone was supposed to help actors find their way through a scene. This feels like really bad Improvisation. I read somewhere that Tom and Nicole read their lines together and thought about what direction they wanted to go with their characters. Lynide probably does the same thing. This works for them because they are really good actors; unfortunately NR needs help and direction.

Secondly, they need really scary monster. the 2 so far have been Okay; but kind of run of the mill monsters, imo.

I'll continue to watch this show, because of it's leads and the hope hat it gets better; but I'm beginning to get a bad feeling about it's longevity.

Oh and I love the fact that Nicole keeps pulling out her gun no matter what monster she faces!

Edited October 9, 2015 by Criminey

[vanarnd1]

I am not sure what it was it particular, but this episode didn't totally work for me. I think the pacing in how things are unfolding is off.

Like others have said, I like Pandora, but until they clearly show her motivations, it feels like we are just seeing random MoTW being sent to create havoc like in Season 2.  And I don't like the idea of seeing extended Betsy Ross flashbacks in every episode, the character/acting just doesn't seem to fit at all. And in general, the flashbacks were focused on Crane and showing his altruism which has been done before and gets old in that in seems like Crane constantly needs self-validation.

I think Joe will be brought into the fold more smoothly as time goes on, but he was rude to Jenny the same way he was to Abbie last season about their relationship with Corbin. I can understand it to an extent, but I hope they get that past that as the season goes on.

I liked Daniel, it is good that he and Abbie have a strong working relationship. It does mean though that likely he won't be a current ongoing love interest, which means there could be a void left there from what we thought we might see when his character was spoiled.

I did like the Abbie/Crane scenes early on and that Abbie confided about her father, it will be interesting to see how that progresses. I  think though for this episode they were trying balance and introduce too many things at once. Hopefully it can be smoothed out next week

[DearEvette]

I wonder if the disconnect many are feeling as they watch has to do with the shift from a primarily serialize story with a few MOW to a primarily MOW with a serialized framing.  If it had started off this way I think it wouldn't be so disorienting.

 

Those of us who watched since S1 simply aren't used to SH having this episodic identity hence the feeling of 'unease' or 'something missing' a lot of people have.

 

I do wonder if the show has an overall plan for the season.  I kinda suspect they do and that these early episodes are setting up the pins for it.  Obviously Pandora has an agenda with her tree and all, but we are not seeing it just yet, Jenny and Joe's subplot might play into it, Papa Mills may also have some part in it.  I can only hope that if there is some big plan, that all the pieces assemble into something really good so we can look back at some of these early episodic shows and see the seeds of it all.

 

I am hoping that Abbie & Ichabod's role and Witness takes on more importance as this season goes on and we get the real feel of this being a tribulation for them.  Because as much as I am enjoying watching them, I don't think I'll get that thrill until that happens.

[dargosmydaddy]

Betsy Ross can go any time. Joe can stay.

 

I miss Hawley.

[Fable]

After being a bit under whelmed last week, I thought this a really good episode.  My favorite scenes were the ones with Crane singing and doing housework. 

 

Joe and Jenny seem like they would make a nice team, and yes indeed, the actor sure does look a lot like Clancy Brown. 

 

I can't wait to learn more about Abbie's and Jenny's father.  I hope this was more than just a passing mention by Abbie to show a more vulnerable side. 

 

I'm kind meh on the MoW but I do find Pandora intriguing,   I will be disappointed if they don’t run with her story.  If she is just creating monsters for the sake of creating monsters, I don't think it will hold my interest for long. 

 

As far as Betsy Ross, I can take her or leave her.  She doesn't bother me or interest me.  I think it would have been best to have given her a short arc instead of making her a regular, because I can see how that will get old very fast.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Fable

[TrininisaScorp]

I've had a rough couple of weeks (broke my ankle, ankle surgery, etc) and nothing brought a smile to my face the way Crane cleaning the house did.  His walk across the living room whilst vacuuming was amazing.  I need to get a gif of that moment.

 

I liked Joe last season and I think he'd make a really good addition this season.  Hoping he sticks around and interacts with both Mills sisters and Icky.  

 

I liked New Boss Guy and Crane's obvious discomfort.  Very amusing.  New guy seems  like he might be a good fit.

 

Betsy...no, girl, no.  I don't know anything about Nikki Reed, but is that her voice or is she affecting something for this role?  Good Lord, it is baaaddd.  The rest of Betsy and her storyline are also worlds of disappointing.  I don't know if I'd like the character in any real way b/c of the trope-y-ness of it all, but in the hands of a more capable actress, I feel like she'd potentially be tolerable.  

 

These episodes almost seem like a pilot and episode two of a new series. Shaky.  Clearly, they showrunner and writers are regaining some footing.  I'll give them a few more episodes to make things work with more cohesion and better pacing.  Like many of you, The Porch Scene was truly gorgeous; many of the reasons I love this show were on display in those few minutes.  Both actors looked beautiful (it's disgusting how gorgeous they both are) and their acting was on point.  My ears perked up at Abbie's father discovery.  Can't wait to see where that goes.

 

Confession:  I watched The Originals instead (like a few others here) and then switched to Fox at 959pm and did StartOver to see Sleepy Hollow.  Hee.  

[phoenics]

I think the MoW format is disorienting. I think what made Original Recipe SH so compelling was that they didn't have MoW. They had Headless as a continuing menace, with intrigue added by Andy and occasional moments with Moloch. Plus, they used any additional monsters to actually exposit more out of the characters.

What's missing for me is the deep layering the show used to do - even the monsters of the week had a point. When the show had them (it was rare), the point was to draw more details and background out of the characters.

The pilot had Abbie/Crane finding their destiny, Ichabod linked to Headless and Abbie being revealed to be linked to Moloch. We had Andy trying to "protect" Abbie after selling his soul to Moloch, and then Moloch killing him all scary in his cell. Then Abbie and Crane come in and Moloch does the mirror crack thing and really scares us all.

The next episode had the sandman - and the point of all of that was to point back to Jenny and Abbie finding Moloch in the woods and the continuing evil presence in their lives with Moloch following them and then sending the sandman after Abbie. The sandman monster of the week was basically how we found out about Jenny and more of what happened with Abbie, Jenny and Moloch in the woods.

Previously with the original recipe SH, the MoW gave us deeper insight into the characters and also the Sleepy Hollow mythology and history.

I think I'm frustrated that this season feels disjointed from its own history of how the witnesses got here. We never finished exploring that in S1 I thought - especially with Abbie - but then they killed Moloch and reset everything that I'm worried there isn't any real deep mythology left to mine.

Why is Pandora here? What's her end game? What are the stakes?

I guess with this MoW we got some stuff with Abbie finding her dad - but I wanna see something really good come out of that... not just a storyline that goes away after an episode.

Edited October 10, 2015 by phoenics

[Terrafamilia]

I remember listening to G. Gordon Liddy explain that during his time in the FBI at least it was Hoover's policy that agents would not be posted in or near their home towns. He did not want them to have any preexisting ties with the local populace so they could be more objective and you wouldn't have old friends perhaps expecting to be given some slack. What they do now I have no idea but in Sleepy Hollowood that policy is long gone.

[fantique]

Well, while I see people's issues and agree with them being issues, I liked this episode better. At least I wasn't drifting while watching it. I liked all the mini plots outside of the SBR featurette. I liked baby Corbin (the actor is really good at being earnest and not bratty when suckering Jenny into letting him in) and I liked Reynolds (he wasn't being all "grr...alpha male...be intimidated" and his "Who are you? Why are you on our crime scene? And what the hell is up with your clothes and mannerisms?" face was good. He looked like he didn't even want to ask). 
 
Good scenes

• Opening: Matthew Stewart Crane is the best thing they could ever have as an opening. This is better than the phone sliding. Them navigating being roommates is great. It helps address certain things in their dynamic without making it the main plot or making it dramatic. Just having him feeling like he needs to show his appreciation for her help in such a mundane way is a show of good faith on the writers' part to try to equalise the partnership. Very smart set up.
• All the Jenny-Joe scenes are interesting and could have good plot repercussions and it's just so nice to see the real Jenny again. I like him wanting in and the show keeping the memory of Corbin alive. AND, they could bring more of Corbin's files and open cases back. That was a wasted resource so the writers should mine that. I do hope they don't go the romantic route because it's kind of weird. Especially because Abbie clearly treated him like a baby brother in his intro episode.
• I liked the Reynolds intro... It was suitably awkward but not too heavy handed, IMO. I do like that Abbie assumed he was there on her level and not as her boss, so the show is acknowledging that it is weird. What they do with that can be interesting but so far, I am not rolling my eyes or face palming. And I loved the looks Abbie gave both of them, especially Crane. Wouldn't want the guy as a wingman ever. Although Ichabod confused me in that scene.
• Pandora...I love the character, I love the actress. Yes, I want more of her. I am ok with her and her purpose staying nebulous for now because it is so much fun to think about what she could be planning. I can tell the writers and actress are having fun with this one.  Shallow note, I liked her shot hair from last week better when in modern clothes. 

Bad scene

• The entire Betsy Ross sequence was absolutely puzzling to me. The thing is, if I ignore her speech, when she is talking business, I can deal with her. It's when she has to do anything other than say lines that I get weirded out. Her gasp! at the covers being blown was so fake it felt like a purposefully comedic reaction. Her "flirting" was really bad, the guy playing Howe seemed like he was confused and then smiled like "Oh right, this is the part where I am completely seduced?" And the script is so heavy handed and contradictory. Why act like she's this seductress but then have her deny using some more thorough method of seduction while she is in her underwear; wearing the guy's jacket. And what kind of spy draws attention to herself like that and acts still surprised when someone misreads the situation. They either need to stop with Crane's "she was the best spy evaaaaahhhh" speech when bringing her up if they don't intend to show her having more than minimal brain cells and presence. And Tom needs to stop having that confused expression on her face when she is flirty because it makes me confused. Not saying he is not acting like he should, saying the writing is dictating that he acts this way but since he is who I am invested in, if Crane isn't on board, I can't be. Or she needs to stop to try to flirt. Seriously, WHY are men confused when she flirts?!?! And her expression looks like she's thinking "gotcha!!" when he reacts to her flirting. Does she enjoy confusing him? If so, and that could be interesting, make it more clear and intentional looking.
• I have nothing against Nikki Reed but she is just not a good fit...Did someone hold a gun to their heads? I mean, once they cast her, they should have re-thought the role of Sexy Betsy because her vibe is sooooo wrong. And there is nothing Angelina Jolie like about her so, while that was at first a comfort, it makes me even more confused about the casting choice. Unless she's one of those good auditioner, bad/limited actor types. I am really confused because it really looks and sounds like she is doing her best and is super into her role. Have I mentioned my complete and utter confusion? I'm not even mad, she's basically the mcguffin hinter of each episode so she doesn't matter.

 

Generally, I liked that I felt like I can see what type of show they want to be, for better or for worse, as opposed to what they showed me they're not, last week.
 

 But I guess he wouldn't be Ichabod without making mountains out of molehills.

Yeah, I'm coming to terms with him being a drama queen. More fun that way.
 

Based on tv, the FBI = Fictional Bureau of Investigations.
 
ETA:  I forgot!  Abbie's breasticles were more prominently displayed this ep.  It (they?) was the first thing I noticed when she was kneeling down in one of the early shots - maybe the place where the guy died?  And then again when she found the secret hidey hole in the floor of his house.  I'm thinking that is not accidental.

How the hell do they manage to show more cleavage then when she was just in a sports bra? I was like "really guys?" And her cleavage showed more when she was in her FBI/professional clothes! Ridiculous.
 
Here's how I feel about SBR:

Replace 2pac with Headless and Justin Bieber with SBR.

I wonder if the disconnect many are feeling as they watch has to do with the shift from a primarily serialize story with a few MOW to a primarily MOW with a serialized framing.  If it had started off this way I think it wouldn't be so disorienting.
 
Those of us who watched since S1 simply aren't used to SH having this episodic identity hence the feeling of 'unease' or 'something missing' a lot of people have.

I don't know... Season 1's first 5 episodes were all monster of the week except for the one where Jenny escapes and the Hessians are after them and try to bring a horde of demons. What worked then is that the MotW tied into character development which I felt the demon this week did. He was really here to tell us Abbie found her father. Let's be real, nobody cares about Crane almost betraying his fellow spies. Even his unburdening was about getting Abbie to relieve herself of the secret.

[Stephsco]

THIS: Betsy is a total fail - she's like the Party City version of Betsy Ross.

Yes. It took me a minute to figure out the actress. She is just so terribly miscast. Maybe if she played a character in the modern aspect of the show, but she's like someone sent to a re-enactment camp for community service--she's wearing the right clothes but doesn't give a crap about authenticity. Shannen Sossman is great though. She could have played Betsy and done well with it.

[cynic]

...The entire Betsy Ross sequence was absolutely puzzling to me. The thing is, if I ignore her speech, when she is talking business, I can deal with her. It's when she has to do anything other than say lines that I get weirded out. Her gasp! at the covers being blown was so fake it felt like a purposefully comedic reaction. Her "flirting" was really bad, the guy playing Howe seemed like he was confused and then smiled like "Oh right, this is the part where I am completely seduced?" And the script is so heavy handed and contradictory. Why act like she's this seductress but then have her deny using some more thorough method of seduction while she is in her underwear; wearing the guy's jacket. And what kind of spy draws attention to herself like that and acts still surprised when someone misreads the situation. They either need to stop with Crane's "she was the best spy evaaaaahhhh" speech when bringing her up if they don't intend to show her having more than minimal brain cells and presence. And Tom needs to stop having that confused expression on her face when she is flirty because it makes me confused. Not saying he is not acting like he should, saying the writing is dictating that he acts this way but since he is who I am invested in, if Crane isn't on board, I can't be. Or she needs to stop to try to flirt. Seriously, WHY are men confused when she flirts?!?! And her expression looks like she's thinking "gotcha!!" when he reacts to her flirting. Does she enjoy confusing him? If so, and that could be interesting, make it more clear and intentional looking.

...

Bwahaha! This so much. Katia Winter was pretty bad at acting and spending time watching her whisper her lines used to irritate me a lot, buy Nikki Reed is so much worse. I can't even be mad at it. I actually watched her last night in befuddled amazement, just astounded at how terrible she actually is. I had forgotten about that little gasp and you're right, that was so amateurish, but omg the flirting, the flirting! I can't stop thinking about her with General Howe and how she practically waggled her eyebrows at him. I had to rewind that part. I was rolling. I cannot believe someone of her caliber is a regular in network tv. The fact that she is actually makes me lose some respect for the runners of this show.

[crabbypants]

If it turns out that Betsy Ross is from modern times and got stuck in the colonial world, then that would explain her speech and out-of-place dress/actions. That would be kind of cool.

Until proven otherwise, my head canon is that Pandora and Betsy Ross are body-swapped.  

 

It was Hoover's policy that agents would not be posted in or near their home towns... What they do now I have no idea but in Sleepy Hollowood that policy is long gone.

I don't know any FBI agents but other people I know in federal law enforcement didn't get their assignments until they were close to graduating the academy.  Usually they make a list of where they want to go.  Sometimes the best performing graduate gets their first choice assignment as a reward.  Among the officers/agents I know, they didn't start in their hometown.  There is a joke that you spend your entire career trying to get back to it.

 

The Daniel thing is distracting.  Promotions require time in grade.  If we assume Abby went to Quantico right after Season 2 ended, they'd have spent 5 months there and 4 months on the job.  Even then, he'd need 3 months on the job to move up, no other competition, and an urgent need to fill the position instead of advertising it again.  The other possibility is that he was one of Abbie's instructors, which is all kinds of wrong.

[possibilities]

All Abbie's bosses die or are sent packing within 3 episodes, so it doesn't really matter how the new guy got where he was going. I can't get attached.

 

And someone please tell me I'm not crazy, but the character is played by the same guy who played Mr Harris, who Old Christine was crazy for on The New Adventures of Old Christine, right? Blair Underwood, right? After thinking Pandora and Betsy Ross were played by the same actress last week, I'm afraid to recognize anyone anymore, and since no one has commented on it being Blair Underwood playing New Boss/Old Flame, I'm worried I messed this one up, too. I checked IMDB and the character isn't credited yet.

[cynic]

Sorry Possibilities, it's not Blair Underwood. Her boss is played by Lance Gross.

[DearEvette]

Her gasp! at the covers being blown was so fake it felt like a purposefully comedic reaction. Her "flirting" was really bad,

LOL. I legit asked myself 'Wait, did homegirl just do a dramatic gasp?'

[possibilities]

Sorry Possibilities, it's not Blair Underwood. Her boss is played by Lance Gross.

Crap. That's the third time this has happened in the past 2 weeks. Pretty soon, I'll be Headless.

[Raja]

Sorry Possibilities, it's not Blair Underwood. Her boss is played by Lance Gross.

Maybe his TV and movie production son. But you have to admit if it was Blair Underwood from LA Law 30 years ago fame then his being the boss would make more sense. But then his joining the FBI at 50 would be as silly here as it was over on CSI

[DeLurker]

.And someone please tell me I'm not crazy, but the character is played by the same guy who played Mr Harris, who Old Christine was crazy for on The New Adventures of Old Christine, right? Blair Underwood, right?

Blair is hanging out with the Agents of SHIELD gang on ABC this season.  He's aged from the LA Law days but has done it damn well.

Edited October 10, 2015 by DeLurker

[kia112]

I think what sold me on Pandora's weirdness was when she spoke to that guy in the station, saying something like, "Tell me your secret...I can't never get a signal in here."  No one in life would ever say that and the fact that the only thing she could come up with to say after "Tell me your secret" was something about a cell phone signal made me laugh.

[MissAlmond]

SBR is much easier to take while watching on DVR because you can fast forward her scenes.  I think there’s a plan (because I don’t see FOX wanting a repeat of SH “not” having one) so after it’s revealed, I’ll go back to catch the foreshadowing.

 

 

I think what sold me on Pandora's weirdness was when she spoke to that guy in the station, saying something like, "Tell me your secret...I can't never get a signal in here."  No one in life would ever say that and the fact that the only thing she could come up with to say after "Tell me your secret" was something about a cell phone signal made me laugh.

 

 

I adored Headless but I already love Pandora too.  I like how, in all her weirdness, she’s slinking around and interacting with the town as if she’s just another person who lives in SH.  For me, the MoW works with Pandora because (IMO) she seems the sort of demon who would just keep throwing craziness out there.  You think you’ve defeated *that* demon, well here’s another and another and still another.  I have a whole box full of demons.   Dealing with Pandora could be like dealing with an unhinged, obsessed person you’re trying to hide from but they keep finding you.  You move here, think you’re safe only to look up and there they are again.  By the end,  the police can’t help you because it’s too difficult to keep tabs on your tormentor, your blood pressure has spiked,  you’ve aged 10 years and you’re slowing, but surely, losing it because you never know when or how the person will strike again.  It’s not as dramatic as a headless man with an axe and gun but does have its own brand of creepiness.

 

MissAlmond

Edited October 10, 2015 by MissAlmond

[Snookums]

Wow. Those Betsy Ross scenes are just ... not good. She changed clothes... why? If she wasn't distracting Howe "that way" why was she suddenly wearing what looked like the general's uniform? And the actress is badly cast, in my opinion.

 

 

It's just ghastly. I never thought I'd be defending The Katrina Season, but Wig Stand did put some effort in the direction of being from another time. This actress? She needs to be on The Vampire Diaries or Pretty Little Liars. Or even cast in the modern day stuff. She'd be fine as, like, a professional rival of Abbie's or something. But the whole "teenager macking on a grown man while pretending to be a female adventurer from a failed pulp magazine" is not working. She might as well have been checking her cell phone.

 

 

Also - Nicole Beharie played it SO perfectly - being caught in the middle between Daniel and Ichabod.

 

 

 

That? WAS HILARIOUS. They made a "W"! Both these huge rangy guys on the ends and wee little pocket sized Abbie in the middle! Crane doing the whole Manly Casual She's Miiiiiiiine stroll-up behind her was a riot--my husband and I couldn't quit laughing. 

 

Shallow note--both Mison and Barie looked amazeballs in their scene on the porch at the end. His piercing eyes? Woof. And her hair was super extra cute.

 

Pandora continues to go her own way with her spookiness and it's working so far--thank God Shannyn Sossamon seems NOT be the showrunner's new pet and isn't being thrust at the audience like a knife in a 3-D horror movie. She just puts on her giant cape and talks to her spooky tree and all is good. And the Wraith was genuinely unsettling--as an above poster put it, I shot into the air when it appeared in the guy's rearview, the CG was great in its swirly state, and when it became a solid thing and was fighting Crane and Abbie the actor in the suit did a fab job. The too-long arms unfurling everywhere, terrific.

 

Too bad the show can't just trust its many strengths and run with them. Quit trying to introduce love interests for Crane, especially those that clash DIRECTLY with what you spent the entire last season forcing down our throats! Just as I wish they'd end the Betsy/Crane debacle, I hope to God they don't try to start some kind of icky romance between Jenny and Corbin's kid. They have a big sister/little brother vibe and watching them get romantic would make me break out in hives.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Snookums

[Snookums]

ETA:  I forgot!  Abbie's breasticles were more prominently displayed this ep.  It (they?) was the first thing I noticed when she was kneeling down in one of the early shots - maybe the place where the guy died?  And then again when she found the secret hidey hole in the floor of his house.  I'm thinking that is not accidental.

 

 

Totally wasn't. Her tits were front and center that entire scene! My husband and I were "Is her SO the cameraman? Are her boobs magical document-finders now?" Or maybe she wants everybody to remember that Betsy Ross Cosplayer aside, she's the star and quite a fine foxy one at that.

[HalcyonDays]

I've had a rough couple of weeks (broke my ankle, ankle surgery, etc) and nothing brought a smile to my face the way Crane cleaning the house did.  His walk across the living room whilst vacuuming was amazing.  I need to get a gif of that moment.

 

Ask and ye shall receive....Crane's Vacuum "dance"

[fantique]

I think what sold me on Pandora's weirdness was when she spoke to that guy in the station, saying something like, "Tell me your secret...I can't never get a signal in here."  No one in life would ever say that and the fact that the only thing she could come up with to say after "Tell me your secret" was something about a cell phone signal made me laugh.

See? Here is an actress being given clunky lines and awkward sing-y limerick-y monologue for half of her scenes and she makes it work while having fun. I don't think NR is not having  fun but it doesn't seem like she thought much about her character. I am now championing the sent back into Betsy Ross' body theory. She's a modern person who got astrally projected in that time and body. That is literally the only thing that explains this mess without suspecting that the writers, producers, fox execs and Nikki Reed have brain damage. Because who watches this and goes "wow, this is great!" and actually believes it? And there is no way Nikki is thinking that she is even remotely close to accurate portrayal of a colonial woman, spy or not. 

 

Shallow note--both Mison and Barie looked amazeballs in their scene on the porch at the end. His piercing eyes? Woof. And her hair was super extra cute.

 

Pandora continues to go her own way with her spookiness and it's working so far--thank God Shannyn Sossamon seems NOT be the showrunner's new pet and isn't being thrust at the audience like a knife in a 3-D horror movie. She just puts on her giant cape and talks to her spooky tree and all is good.  

 

Just as I wish they'd end the Betsy/Crane debacle, I hope to God they don't try to start some kind of icky romance between Jenny and Corbin's kid. They have a big sister/little brother vibe and watching them get romantic would make me break out in hives. Me: YESSSSSSS

The new location has done very well for Mison, I never noticed how pretty his eyes were before. I think it helps that they actually eased off the blue/grey filter in their daylight scenes.

 

Totally wasn't. Her tits were front and center that entire scene! My husband and I were "Is her SO the cameraman? Are her boobs magical document-finders now?" Or maybe she wants everybody to remember that Betsy Ross Cosplayer aside, she's the star and quite a fine foxy one at that.

Yeah... I am thinking the intent is on the production side of the equation.

[slayer2]

Ian Somerhalder, please come get your wife.

 

 

I'm not one to slurp the haterade on actresses but in this case please pour me a double. To quote a Canadian singer named after precipitation, "I don't know what's happening and I can't pretend." She needs to get her game together and maybe call up that Ivana Chubbuck that her hubby's always pimping because THIS, ain't working.

 

In happier news, did anyone else equate Crane's citizenship problems to impending wedding bells? Maybe it's the soap-addict in me but I auto-assumed it was groundwork for a Greencard Crane-Mills moment.

 

ETA Shannyn Sossamon is killing it in this role. Wonderful casting indeed!

Edited October 11, 2015 by slayer2

[kimberella]

I'm impressed with Campbell's whitewashing of Ichabod Crane. It's not believable, but I'm giving him an A for effort.

They can throw as many the love interests in Crane's general direction as they want, but shouldn't they have learned their lesson and cast these actresses after a chemistry read with Mison? It's getting embarrassing.

 

Speaking about chemistry... Abbie/Daniel for the win! There was no way to fail that one, because the actors worked together before and their chemistry was scorching. I wish they did something similar to the intimate relationship in that movie they did, but unfortunately that's highly unlikely in this show.

 

I don't think I'm prepared to Jenny's reaction, when Abbie tells her about their father. She tends to be self-righteous and have the moral high ground like Crane, but with a little luck, if there is conflict between them, it won't be about shaming Abbie for not telling her immediately, but whether to contact their father or not. I'm crossing my fingers.

 

Betsy Ross *sigh*. I've never seen the actress in anything else, but I feel that Reed could be good in a completely different role. Unlike Winter, who is a personality and acting blackhole, Nikki Reed looks like there is life behind the eyes and at least she is good in action scenes. I'm not saying I am convinced she's a good actress otherwise, but I think that she has potential to be decent in the right role. Unfortunately this is not it. The question is, is Campbell wise enough to limit her appearances/fix the character or will he double down with the awfulness, like Goffman did with Katrina?

 

Pandora is very interesting to watch, but her monsters of the week are underwhelming so far. Campbell has failed to capture the sense of danger and high stakes from S1, and that needs to be fixed.

 

In happier news, did anyone else equate Crane's citizenship problems to impending wedding bells? Maybe it's the soap-addict in me but I auto-assumed it was groundwork for a Greencard Crane-Mills moment.

If they are going for a wedding to get the green card for Crane, I think it would be between him and that new love interest they introduced this episode.

 

I still miss Orlando Jones.

Edited October 11, 2015 by kimberella

[DeLurker]

Speaking about chemistry... Abbie/Daniel for the win! There was no way to fail that one, because the actors worked together before and their chemistry was scorching.<SNIP>

 

I don't think I'm prepared to Jenny's reaction, when Abbie tells her about their father. <SNIP>

 

Betsy Ross *sigh*. I've never seen the actress in anything else, but I feel that Reed could be good in a completely different role. Unlike Winter, who is a personality and acting blackhole, Nikki Reed looks like there is life behind the eyes and at least she is good in action scenes. I'm not saying I am convinced she's a good actress otherwise, but I think that she has potential to be decent in the right role. Unfortunately this is not it. SNIP>

 

I still miss Orlando Jones.

There was definitely something below the surface there with Abbie and Daniel.  I really liked how it was played -very nuanced.  And him commenting about her thing for accents?  Do tell!

 

I totally did not think about how Jenny would handle the news about Daddy Dearest.  Although I would be surprised if she had not looked for herself in the past.  I hope it doesn't cause a rift for the Mills sisters.

 

You're much more charitable towards Nikki Reed's potential.  Maybe I am just judging her prematurely.

 

I miss Orlando too.

[CooperTV]

So that was Team Witness vs. Dementor episode? Special effects guys have zero imagination.

 

I liked Ichabod being all domestic and adorable. There needs to be more of it. Although I didn't quite get how Abbie could afford such a nice house (and how Abbie took Crane to live with her but her sister still lives in a trailer).

 

There's like, also zero explanation how a dude that was with Abbie in the FBI academy six months (or whatever) ago, could built such a career. Sleepy Hollow is a not very big but it's still not a tiny village that you could throw a rooky FBI agent at it and be done with.

 

Abbie being cagey and abrupt about her past with Daniel was also very weird, as she teased Ichabod about Betty in the last episode. It's fine to have no boundaries as long as you do that, Abbie?

 

The Jenny and Joe subplot was bizarrely random. I don't care for it at all.

 

Betty needs to be more of her own person and less of a Strong Female Character (Who Also Hot In Period Clothing).

Edited October 11, 2015 by CooperTV

[Indi]

Abbie being cagey and abrupt about her past with Daniel was also very weird, as she teased Ichabod about Betty in the last episode. It's fine to have no boundaries as long as you do that, Abbie?

 

Wasn't Ichy the one, who brought up his affair with Sexy!Smart!Betsy! in the past? It's not Abbie's fault that he has no boundaries.