Episode Discussion: TFGH

[UYI]

Until @Grrpants09 brought it up, I hadn't even realized that if Liz sleeps with Jake she is technically a rapist. It's just sick that Ron may turn a rape survivor into a rapist herself.

This won't ever be addressed on-screen and really is par for the course on the show that had Carly and the holy hitman laugh about her husband being raped, and never addressed the fact that Luke effectively raped Tracy for almost a year.

That said, I think the show's handling of rape is unfortunately reflective of society's where college football players can rape a woman and then people treat her like the villain.

 

Technically, that happened on Days way back in 1995, when Sami drugged Austin and slept with him, after Alan Harris had raped her. This whole thing just makes me sick. 

[UYI]

If Jake wants it, that shouldn't be a problem.  Or else everyone who had sex with Jason Morgan was doing the same thing, since he didn't remember who he was either.

 

This may be a soap first.  Amnesia on top of amnesia.  I guess it's too much to ask that they make his recall interesting and include Jason Quartermaine's memories too.

 

I remember reading something about how when the late Douglas Marland had Holden on ATWT get mugged in 1991 and lose his memory, it was not supposed to be typical soap amnesia, it was brain damage, and it would be permanent. After he died, future writers eventually had Holden become his old self, but obviously, that has never happened with Jason. What happened to Jason Q feels like what would have happened had Marland's plan for Holden prevailed: permanent brain damage, with no chance of him becoming his old self again. And since I'm not sure if Jason Morgan will be himself again, or there will be yet another Jason, this might be less amnesia on top of amnesia, or amnesia on top of brain damage, and more like brain damage on top of brain damage (which in itself, I guess, would still be a soap first).

 

And yes, I just made my own eyes glaze over typing that last sentence. 

[Francie]

I also was thrilled Jason was shot and kicked in the water to die. I even rooted for Faison for ten minutes.

In a bizarre kind of way, I've been rooting for Faison all along (though I missed his Felicia-obsessed turn in the early 2000s, thank God), up until he became Britt's "papa."  Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.

 

He was such a delicious villain until then.

[TeeVee329]

In a bizarre kind of way, I've been rooting for Faison all along (though I missed his Felicia-obsessed turn in the early 2000s, thank God), up until he became Britt's "papa."  Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.

 

He was such a delicious villain until then.

 

I liked Britt being Faison's daughter and I liked her giving zero fucks about him for the most part in the past so even I had to roll my eyes at her "He's not so bad!" attitude towards him now.

[Chairperson Meow]

Ron's fucked up so badly that I wish Faison would kick me in the harbor.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Elizabeth will NOT be a rapist.  I am no fan of the character, and I think she will deserve all the fallout when it comes, and she IS a hypocrite of the highest degree, but it will not be rape.  Jake WANTS to be with Elizabeth, and more than likely, wants to sleep with her.  If and when that happens, it will be consensual sex.  The betrayal will come out when he realizes she lied to him about his identity.  It would be the same as a woman sleeping with a man who said he wasn't married when he was just to have sex with her or vice versa, but it's not rape.  It would only be rape if she were drugging him and he had no idea what he was doing, which is what happens on college campuses constantly and IS rape.  This is not.  Jake wants to be with her.  It's manipulation and deception at its worst, very similar to Ric's machinations actually.  Ironic huh?

 

Elizabeth has always had a very loose sense of her own actions whenever anything goes wrong.  She seems to think the universe is against her and that "good people" always finish last, but she forgets that much of her failures are due to her own bad choices.  SHE chose to cheat on her husband with her brother-in-law.  Did she think that was going to end well?  SHE chose to push Jason away in the very beginning when they faked Sonny's death, and Jason walked away.  She has always wanted Jason to change his life for her, to give up the mob and be with her, and she has never accepted him as he was.  So that ALSO was a choice on her part.  In all fairness, from what I saw on the screen, once Sam arrived in Jason's life, Elizabeth was not an option anymore.  Even just before he died, Jason told Elizabeth that he wanted Sam and to be with her and raise Danny (and he still thought the baby was Franco's).  So Elizabeth was never going to have her shot with Jason.  He made his choice.  THIS situation is perfect for her:  He has no memory.  He's not in the mob, per se, as far she knows.  He is hers to mold the way she wants her life to be with him, and he's such a whipped puppy character now that he'll do whatever she wants.  So basically, she gets her "Jason" finally.  She is a bit demented.

 

 

I'm confused. Jakeson is Liz's to mold because he has no memory of his old self, but if she has sex with him, it wouldn't be a violation because he wants to have sex with her? If he wants to have sex with her, he must have some kind of inkling that she means something to him, yes? Don't get me wrong, I'm even more sick of rape stories than I am of baby stories, but if she can basically Svengali him into exactly what she wants him to be, that seems borderline rape-y to me. JMO.

 

Technically, that happened on Days way back in 1995, when Sami drugged Austin and slept with him, after Alan Harris had raped her. This whole thing just makes me sick. 

 

Off-topic, but years after that happened, someone did to Sami's brother Eric exactly what Sami did to Austin, and the show never addressed it. She and Eric didn't even have a damn conversation about it.

[Bishop]

 

 

I'm confused. Jakeson is Liz's to mold because he has no memory of his old self, but if she has sex with him, it wouldn't be a violation because he wants to have sex with her? If he wants to have sex with her, he must have some kind of inkling that she means something to him, yes? Don't get me wrong, I'm even more sick of rape stories than I am of baby stories, but if she can basically Svengali him into exactly what she wants him to be, that seems borderline rape-y to me. JMO.

It's not.  Rape is about force and/or lack of consent.  If Jake goes willingly to her bed, it's consensual.  Remember when Hayden was putting the moves on Jake in the hotel room?  She knew he wasn't her husband, and she knew she was lying to him about his identity.  Now if Jake had slept with Hayden willingly, is that rape?  It isn't.  Yes, it's a lie and it's manipulative and deceptive, but if it's consensual, it's not rape.  The definition of rape is clear on that point.

 

On another note:  What the heck was that ridiculous moment of Jake putting his head on Carly's shoulder???  WTF?  What is she his mother now??  Ugh!

Edited May 6, 2015 by Bishop

[Oracle42]

On another note:  What the heck was that ridiculous moment of Jake putting his head on Carly's shoulder???  WTF?  What is she his mother now??  Ugh!

 

I am fine with Jake being Jason Q, Jason Morgan or Jason Quartermorgan - I can even deal with St. Jasus the Borg but there is not any version of Jason that is Billy FRIKKIN Abbot

Edited May 6, 2015 by Oracle42

[Chairperson Meow]

The dictionary definition of rape is sexual intercourse without the victim's consent. The definition of consent is to give permission for something to happen or occur. Is Jake- a person who technically does not exist, but as an amnesiac fragmented part of Jason Quartermaine - able to give consent? No. Because he doesn't recognize that he ever was Jason Quartermaine or Jason Morgan.

"But Jason Morgan and Jason Quartermaine were kinda two different people? Does that make all of the women Jason Morgan slept with rapists?" No. Because Jason knew he was Jason Quartermaine and chose to BE Jason Morgan. He effectively chose a different life and style of personality. He still had his memories and a general awareness of who he was. Overtime, he resumed interactions with his family.

Think of it this way. Imagine Jason is a woman named "Jane" with amnesia. Jane has a husband named Sam, a son named Danny. But she remembers a dead child she had with an ex. She sees the ex, named "Lou" and is attracted to him. Jane calls herself by their dead child's name "Josie". Lou finds out that Josie is really Jane, but doesn't tell her and has sex with her- taking away her choices, her time to be herself, to be with her real family. Imagine you are Jane. You hit your head, you get your memory. It's not so romantic, is it?

What Liz and Nik are doing is taking away Jason and Sam's choices. They're like puppetmasters. It's disgusting, and yes it is rape for Jason. He cannot consent. She, moreso than Sabrina, need to be fired after this because that's a gross misconduct of being a nurse. Which once again Ron makes a mockery of rape and the medical profession.

[mybabyaidan]

Didn't Jason almost ditch Sam during her pregnancy because he didn't know if he was Danny's Dad?  What a guy for RC/FV to focus on for over a year!  The thug made a living by beating people up and threatening violence and couldn't even protect his wife during their honeymoon.

 

Jason was a POS during that entire storyline, but he didn't think he could love Franco's baby.  It wasn't that the baby wasn't his, it was that it was Franco's.  There is a distinction, because Jason had no trouble in the past raising a kid that wasn't his.   Don't get me started on his hypocritical horrible self during that mess.   Making his pain more important than his wife that was raped.  Asshole.

 

I was thinking she might get some praise here - not for her goals.  But the part about the liars and cheaters made me think of Sonny and Carly always winning.  So taking that out of its context, it kind of rocked!  

 

That's all well and good, if Liz wasn't a liar and cheat herself.  If she had said murderers and criminals I would have taken it better....but she is a hypocritical, lack of self awareness, pathetic woman.  At this point she isn't much better than the likes of Sonny and Carly.  She can spin it anyway she wants, she is still hurting a lot of people by keeping this secret.   And looking at my above reply to Jason and Sam, maybe Liz and Jason DO deserve each other.

 

 I think whether Liz/Jakeson is rape is kind of a grey area. It's certainly gross and untoward for Liz to fuck a guy she knows wouldn't be fucking her if he knew the truth about himself.

 

Eh, I tend to agree with Bishop here.  As much as I hate Liz, I don't think it's really rape.  It's pretty icky, but to call it rape might be a little much....But I can see how others can see it that way.

[Oracle42]

How do you know RC is head writer of your soap? At least once a year there is a discussion regarding sexual consent 

Edited May 6, 2015 by Oracle42

[Cobalt Stargazer]

It's not.  Rape is about force and/or lack of consent.  If Jake goes willingly to her bed, it's consensual.  Remember when Hayden was putting the moves on Jake in the hotel room?  She knew he wasn't her husband, and she knew she was lying to him about his identity.  Now if Jake had slept with Hayden willingly, is that rape?  It isn't.  Yes, it's a lie and it's manipulative and deceptive, but if it's consensual, it's not rape.  The definition of rape is clear on that point.

 

Still confused, although since you mentioned Hayden that brings me to a point. Unless Jakeson is into having sex with random strangers, like Hayden with Nikolas, I would think that he'd have to feel some kind of emotional connection with Liz, Because this iteration of the character doesn't really know her, just like she doesn't know him, which is why it was so ridiculous for her to invite him into the house where her small children live.

[KerleyQ]

How do you know RC is head writer of your soap? At least once a year there is a discussion regarding sexual consent 

 

And that head writer is always on the wrong side of that discussion.  Jasus, he has issues. 

[dubbel zout]

Now we see all these "severe burns" amount to nothing but a small boo-boo on his cheek that looks like he just fell off his bike and scraped his face a little?  Way to trivialize the horrific trauma of severe burns, Show.

 

It's just awful. Spencer throwing in that little "I'm lucky compared to the other kids at the hospital" was gross. I never expect much reality from soap illnesses and injuries, but considering the Shriners' involvement, you'd think the show would try a little harder than having Spencer drama-queen his illness for weeks only for it to be barely worse than road rash. UGH.

 

I had to laugh when (the, again, weirdly reluctant) Nikolas asked if she had thought about it and Liz confirmed that she had.

 

I don't get what Nik is trying to do. He tells her the secret and then tells her a) if she tells it she'll destroy a bunch of people's lives but B) if she doesn't tell, the guilt will kill her. WTF?

[tallyrand]

I don't think its legally considered rape, at least in most jurisdictions.  Sex under false pretenses is generally not considered rape.  However, it's icky and gross and close enough to rape to give me the heebies-jeebies. 

[General Days]

It was strange how Nicholas didn't want her to tell but then switched over to the other side talking to Liz.  Why doesn't he just tell then?  I can't even recall what advantage it gives him.  The whole thing is illogical.  I wonder how long they will drag this out and who will get to be the one to reveal it.  Probably Carly.

The advantage to Nik was only explained once and not fully (during a conversation with Helena, if I recall correctly), but it amounts to this: Sam currently controls Jason and Danny's shares of ELQ. Sam might be convinced to vote for a Nikolas take-over. If Jake remembers he's Jason, those shares revert to his control, and he would always side with Michael. 

 

Elizabeth will NOT be a rapist.  I am no fan of the character, and I think she will deserve all the fallout when it comes, and she IS a hypocrite of the highest degree, but it will not be rape.  Jake WANTS to be with Elizabeth, and more than likely, wants to sleep with her.  If and when that happens, it will be consensual sex.  The betrayal will come out when he realizes she lied to him about his identity.  It would be the same as a woman sleeping with a man who said he wasn't married when he was just to have sex with her or vice versa, but it's not rape. […]  Jake wants to be with her.  It's manipulation and deception at its worst, very similar to Ric's machinations actually.  Ironic huh?

 

 

I agree with the above. It's a disgusting betrayal. It is a violation of the trust that has been built up between Elizabeth and "Jake," but it is not rape, in that it's not that Jake has NO memory. He has no memory of being Jason Q and Jason Morgan, but he has six months (or more, I've stopped counting) of the life he's currently living, and in that life, he has wanted to be with Elizabeth.

If Liz sleeps with "Jake," he'll be a willing sex partner. And if/once he finds out how she kept the truth from him, he will be a once-willing partner who probably would have chosen differently, had he been in full possession of the truth. He'll be what too many of us have been, a partner who was lied to, by the person he most trusted. Rape is not the only vile act a person can commit. Elizabeth's choice is vile enough, on it's own. I don't need it to be called rape, to hate what she's doing.

I'd love to see Elizabeth saved from this vile act by "Jake," himself. I'd love it if, just as he didn't feel right sleeping with Hayden, because she was a stranger, her appearance in his life has made him realize that he can't be intimate with anyone, until he finds out his true identity. Then, Liz would have lied for nothing. I also want a pony.

 

The dictionary definition of rape is sexual intercourse without the victim's consent. The definition of consent is to give permission for something to happen or occur. Is Jake- a person who technically does not exist, but as an amnesiac fragmented part of Jason Quartermaine - able to give consent? No. Because he doesn't recognize that he ever was Jason Quartermaine or Jason Morgan.

 

 

I don't agree that this person doesn't exist. This person is still the person who was born Jason Quartermaine (or maybe he was born Jason Moore and then it changed to Quartermaine). When he woke up in GH after his accident, he would have been unable to give consent. He's since built up however many months of life experience, memories, desires, principles, etc. Since he was able to refuse to consent to sleep with Hayden, he is able to refuse sleeping with Elizabeth, or consent to it. In my opinion, the problem isn't his ability to consent; the problem is he is being lied to.

This scenario opens up an interesting question of personhood, but I'm pretty sure that's just a happy accident the writers don't even realize they orchestrated, and will fail to make the most of. 

I would have enjoyed this story much more if Sam and Patrick had gotten married, and Jake and Elizabeth had gotten involved, and then Elizabeth learned that Jake was Jason. If she was already building a life with him, when she found out his identity, her reluctance to tell the truth would still be as horrible, but it would also be more sympathetic.

 

[Bringonthedrama]

Excellent post, Grrpants09! Jakeson is an amnesiac/brain injured and if he had the information about himself would not consent to being intimate with Liz. I hate to say it, but I swear this has shades of Stavros/Cassadines and Laura. They kept her in the Cassadine world because Stavros wanted her, and convinced her that Luke was dead. 

 

This is definitely a new low for Liz. HATE it. Especially since she's told people in the past she felt guilty that she lied to/betrayed Jason and he lost out on time with Danny. Only a mentally unhinged/desperately lonely Liz would justify to herself keeping a young child from getting to know his very-much-alive parent. 

 

I expect any day now we'll be seeing guilty looks/hints of tears in her eyes as she hears Sam say stuff like, "I wish Jason could be here to see Danny (insert action/milestone)/ I hope Stavros has a painful death and burns in hell because Danny and I should have been sharing these moments with Jason/Danny asked if he could visit Heaven to see his Daddy." 

[TeeVee329]

I don't get what Nik is trying to do. He tells her the secret and then tells her a) if she tells it she'll destroy a bunch of people's lives but B) if she doesn't tell, the guilt will kill her. WTF?

 

It was so weird.  He spent all Monday justifying himself and trying to get Liz to understand why the secret should be kept.  But then he turned around and spent Tuesday trying to talk her into spilling and then SHE had to swear HIM to secrecy. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

 Jakeson is an amnesiac/brain injured and if he had the information about himself would not consent to being intimate with Liz.

 

Using this logic, that would mean that Jason Morgan, for the past 20-odd years, when Burton was playing him, was raped by Robin, Cujo, SWSNBN, Liz and Sam.

 

He was brain-damaged and had NO memories of being Jason Quartermaine. And remained brain-damaged all these years.

 

 

I hate to say it, but I swear this has shades of Stavros/Cassadines and Laura. They kept her in the Cassadine world because Stavros wanted her, and convinced her that Luke was dead.

I disagree. It's not even similar. Stavros blackmailed and forced Laura to marry him and then raped her. She didn't consent to marry him. Nor did she consent to having sex with him. Not the same, not even shades.

Edited May 6, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[KerleyQ]

It was so weird.  He spent all Monday justifying himself and trying to get Liz to understand why the secret should be kept.  But then he turned around and spent Tuesday trying to talk her into spilling and then SHE had to swear HIM to secrecy. 

 

It feels kind of manipulative on his part.  Like now he has two women he can blame this on - Helena and Liz.  "I told Liz she should tell, but she begged me not to, and I feel like I owe her..."  

[TeeVee329]

I feel like the writing is trying to give Nik a blame shield a la Kiki and "Operation Alcoholic".  No sale.

[dubbel zout]

It feels kind of manipulative on his part.  Like now he has two women he can blame this on - Helena and Liz.  "I told Liz she should tell, but she begged me not to, and I feel like I owe her..."

 

Three women: He's already blamed Emily for dying and having a sadz.

 

But when has Nik—or any man—needed justification to blame the wimmins for their own behavior?

Edited May 6, 2015 by dubbel zout

[General Days]

I kind of get Nik's switcheroo from, "Don't tell!!!" to "Tell!!!" (I don't like it, but I get it). The only reason he told Liz that Jake is Jason, was to keep Elizabeth from getting more romantically involved with Jake, and then getting the rug pulled out from under her, once someone figures out the truth. He came clean with her, because she's important to him (clearly more important than his own cousin and her son).

I think what Nik wanted was for Liz to steer clear of Jake and to keep his secret. Once he realized she wasn't going to steer clear, he didn't want her to keep the secret, because he still thinks she is a good enough person that it will destroy her to do so. 

[rur]

I kind of get Nik's switcheroo from, "Don't tell!!!" to "Tell!!!" (I don't like it, but I get it). The only reason he told Liz that Jake is Jason, was to keep Elizabeth from getting more romantically involved with Jake, and then getting the rug pulled out from under her, once someone figures out the truth. He came clean with her, because she's important to him (clearly more important than his own cousin and her son).

I think what Nik wanted was for Liz to steer clear of Jake and to keep his secret. Once he realized she wasn't going to steer clear, he didn't want her to keep the secret, because he still thinks she is a good enough person that it will destroy her to do so. 

 

My first thoughts yesterday were that Nik wants the secret exposed, but doesn't want to be the one to expose it. (like Rev. Dimmesdale in The Scarlet Letter begging Hester to reveal the father of her child) I can buy that Nik is morally weak enough to not want the fallout (ex: Sam) that would come with the reveal, but still  inherently "good" enough (Laura's genes) that he knows what should be done. He just wants someone else to make the decision for him. That way he can tell himself whatever stories he needs to in order to absolve himself.

Edited May 6, 2015 by rur

[HeatLifer]

Whatever label you want to give Liz, it's still an egregious and unforgivable act. The fact of the matter is, when Jason became Jason Morgan, he still knew about the Quartermaine side. Whether or not he had actual memories is a different story. It was no secret who Monica, Alan, AJ, Keesha, were. Jason just wanted no part of them. That was a choice. That was his sole choice.

In this case, Liz is keeping Jason's true identity from him. She knows that Jason didn't want her, that he chose Sam over her. Many times. Knowing this is what makes it disgusting. And there's no way around that.

[ciarra]

I'm sure that when the truth comes out that Jason will forgive Liz, just like he has all the other times. 

 

Jakeson: "Liz, you set Patrick's house on fire with Danny and Sam trapped inside it?  I'm sure you didn't mean it.  We're good, give me a hug."

[ulkis]

The reason Jason forgives so easily is he is/was a robot, incapable of feeling real passion. Someone screws him over? Eh, whatever. You're forgiven.

Edited May 6, 2015 by ulkis

[HeatLifer]

I think if this story comes to a head with Jason forgiving Liz, falling in love with her again, and then they and Sam/Patrick live happily ever after, Ron did it wrong.

[TeeVee329]

Three women: He's already blamed Emily for dying and having a sadz.

 

Four women - it's also Britt's fault for being a lying schemer, that's why Nik has no choice to be a lying schemer. #eyeroll

[Aprilshowers]

Just chiming in here for what it's worth.  I think before Nik spilled the beans Liz was finally going after what she wanted, she knew, she could feel her and Jake could actually have a chance. Then in a flash it was taken away. Liz is acting out of desperation and trying to justify all this now. It won't be pretty, it will be soapy though. It's messy and soapy as heck and giving BH finally something to do. 

 

Not sure how this will all turn out, but I will enjoy the ride. Perhaps I should hate the fact she's keeping this secret and in way being just as deceitful as Ric and Nik were and well most of PC on a daily basis.  But really I don't. I'm curious what will happen next.

 

I'm also on the fence as to whether I want her to apologetic or not when the truth comes out, could be funny as hell if she just owned it.

[Bishop]

Jason was a POS during that entire storyline, but he didn't think he could love Franco's baby.  It wasn't that the baby wasn't his, it was that it was Franco's.  There is a distinction, because Jason had no trouble in the past raising a kid that wasn't his.   Don't get me started on his hypocritical horrible self during that mess.   Making his pain more important than his wife that was raped.  Asshole.

Yeah, but let's not forget why that ridiculous storyline was written in the first place:  McBain!  Jason Morgan has raised everyone else's kid or has wanted to without a complaint, but I'm suppose to believe that he wouldn't want to raise Sam's baby?  Yeah, it was BS writing, and it was only done to drive a wedge between Jason and Sam so that Sam would run to McBain and Jason would lean on Elizabeth.  It was POS writing, and the fans called them out on it, and it's why RC had to fix the whole mess before SBu left.  It's why he had them reconcile and Jason reject Elizabeth and Sam reject McBain and then Jasam had two seconds of happiness before he was killed.  I always hated what RC did to those two.  He couldn't give them a second of happiness.  It's why RC is so happy now to have BM to mold into his "version" of Jason, and it's not any Jason Morgan I've ever seen.  Now he can write the Jasam v. Liason wars he's been dying to write since the beginning.  It's why he brought back Jason, imo.  He wanted to get his hands on the Jason pairings to create RC's endless triangle stories.  Let's face it, the Jake story has nothing to do with Jason Morgan, his family, the Quatermaines, his accident, his conflict about being a killer.  He doesn't even have a pov in his own story.  He just gets led around by the women in his life.  It's the women who have all the story:  It's about Elizabeth, Carly, and Sam and what THEY want.

[magnolia11]

I expect any day now we'll be seeing guilty looks/hints of tears in her eyes as she hears Sam say stuff like, "I wish Jason could be here to see Danny (insert action/milestone)/ I hope Stavros has a painful death and burns in hell because Danny and I should have been sharing these moments with Jason/Danny asked if he could visit Heaven to see his Daddy." 

 

What will probably happen is that Danny will have a cancer reocurrence again or some sort of other medical crisis, and Julian won't be able to donate bone marrow for whatever reason and/or he or anyone else won't be a match for whatever it is, and Liz will be forced to either come clean or let Danny die.

[Oracle42]

I don't get what Nik is trying to do. He tells her the secret and then tells her a) if she tells it she'll destroy a bunch of people's lives but B) if she doesn't tell, the guilt will kill her. WTF?

 

I think Nik was probably okay with the lie because he doesn't care about hurting Jakeson and he believes that Sam and Danny are better off with Patrick. Jason being MIA/dead also helped his ELQ takeover attempt (in ways which only make sense to RC). Plus, if Jakeson ever did regain his memories there's nothing concrete that proves that he knew

But I think he tried to talk Liz out of her plan for the same reason that he told her the secret - he really cares about her and he doesn't want her to be hurt.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Oracle42

[ulkis]

Yeah, but let's not forget why that ridiculous storyline was written in the first place:  McBain!  Jason Morgan has raised everyone else's kid or has wanted to without a complaint, but I'm suppose to believe that he wouldn't want to raise Sam's baby?  Yeah, it was BS writing, and it was only done to drive a wedge between Jason and Sam so that Sam would run to McBain and Jason would lean on Elizabeth.  It was POS writing, and the fans called them out on it, and it's why RC had to fix the whole mess before SBu left.

 

replying in the UO thread.

[KerleyQ]

I think if this story comes to a head with Jason forgiving Liz, falling in love with her again, and then they and Sam/Patrick live happily ever after, Ron did it wrong.

 

I know there is a lot of thought that, given his full memories, there is no way Jason wouldn't go running back to Sam as fast as his feet will carry him.  But, and this is a very small but...  Jason has typically been rather passive when it comes to women.  If he gets his memory back, and he sees Sam supposedly happy with Patrick, Danny, and Emma, I can see him thinking "she's better off," and having every intention of leaving her be where she is.  And he has always loved Liz (to varying degrees at various times).  

 

Of course, the real crap issue in that outcome is Patrick/Sam, which sucks on every level.  

 

IMO, we can all have our theories, but the real outcome here will largely depend on what version of Jason comes out of this.  Is it fully Jason Morgan?  Jason Q?  Some mixture of the two?  An entirely new persona all together? 

[jsbt]

It's not.  Rape is about force and/or lack of consent.  If Jake goes willingly to her bed, it's consensual.

 

There is no "Jake". There's only Jason, the man with repeat brain damage who cannot remember his life or the woman standing in front of him, or his wife, or his son. And in this case especially, it's not as if Liz is some bystander who knows nothing about him. Liz has years of history with this man, with his family, with his friends, with their friends. She is in a position of power where she knows everything about him and he knows nothing about nothing. She takes him to bed knowing who he is and that he has a life out there that this man, in his right mind (or as close as Jason fuckin' gets), would want to get back to, would choose over her. She knows Jason would choose his life and his wife over being with her, so instead she keeps him impaired and takes him to bed.

 

It's not quite as clear-cut as when Todd #2/Victor Jr. re-raped the amnesiac Marty Saybrooke on OLTL, who Todd had raped once before a decade prior and was now romancing with her unawares, but it's close enough for me.

Yeah, but let's not forget why that ridiculous storyline was written in the first place:  McBain!  Jason Morgan has raised everyone else's kid or has wanted to without a complaint, but I'm suppose to believe that he wouldn't want to raise Sam's baby?  Yeah, it was BS writing, and it was only done to drive a wedge between Jason and Sam so that Sam would run to McBain and Jason would lean on Elizabeth.  It was POS writing, and the fans called them out on it, and it's why RC had to fix the whole mess before SBu left.

 

That's not why they did it. They were going to reunite them no matter what, at least at some point and at least temporarily - Steve's exit just sped the process along. Whether or not Steve had hung around, Ron would've absolutely gone forward with McBain and Sam had the character not been taken from him.

Edited May 6, 2015 by jsbt

[HeatLifer]

I know there is a lot of thought that, given his full memories, there is no way Jason wouldn't go running back to Sam as fast as his feet will carry him. But, and this is a very small but... Jason has typically been rather passive when it comes to women. If he gets his memory back, and he sees Sam supposedly happy with Patrick, Danny, and Emma, I can see him thinking "she's better off," and having every intention of leaving her be where she is. And he has always loved Liz (to varying degrees at various times).

Of course, the real crap issue in that outcome is Patrick/Sam, which sucks on every level.

IMO, we can all have our theories, but the real outcome here will largely depend on what version of Jason comes out of this. Is it fully Jason Morgan? Jason Q? Some mixture of the two? An entirely new persona all together?

If Jason remembers everything, I personally don't think he would just step aside because Sam and Patrick are happy. They're happy under false pretenses. And Jason would never do that to Robin. Knowing she sacrificed her family for him? He would just stand there and do nothing 'cause Sam and Patrick are smiling? My brain won't even go there.

And while Jason loves Liz, I don't think he's been in love with her for a very long time now.

But, yes, it all depends what Jason comes out of this.

[Chairperson Meow]

I think what disgusts me the most is that here we are again debating "Is it rape?" on yet another story Ron has written. Seriously, this is messed up. I get rape happens on tv, but it's a Very Special Episode, not a super "romantic crazy plot twist".

[Bishop]

I think Nik was probably okay with the lie because he doesn't care about hurting Jakeson and he believes that Sam and Danny are better off with Patrick. Jason being MIA/dead also helped his ELQ takeover attempt (in ways which only make sense to RC). Plus, if Jakeson ever did regain his memories there's nothing concrete that proves that he knew

But I think he tried to talk Liz out of her plan for the same reason that he told her the secret - he really cares about her and he doesn't want her to be hurt.

I think a part of Nikolas still blames Jason for getting Emily killed, and he so he feels that his cousin, Sam, should be in a happy relationship with a safe doctor.  So on some level, I get Nikolas' motivation to keep Sam away from him.  I also agree that Nikolas is trying to protect Elizabeth from a future guilt that she's going to feel.  He doesn't feel that way about what he's doing.  He is in full Prince Cassadine mode (and I like it).

 

There is no "Jake". There's only Jason,

Jake is a fully functioning human being who can give or deny his consent to sex.  Period.  That is ultimately what it all comes down to.

 

That's not why they did it. They were going to reunite them no matter what, at least at some point and at least temporarily - Steve's exit just sped the process along. Whether or not Steve had hung around, Ron would've absolutely gone forward with McBain and Sam had the character not been taken from him.

 

 

I agree, but my point is that before SBu left, fans wanted to see THEM reunite.  Otherwise, RC could just as easily written them estranged when Jason was killed.  I agree that the McBam and Liason crap was on RC's radar the minute he knew he landed ME.  RC just wrote the characters ooc to make his plot points work.  No surprise there.  We all know the crap he pulled to try and make Franco and Carly a reality in his writing world and how that ultimately ended.  

 

If Jason remembers everything, I personally don't think he would just step aside because Sam and Patrick are happy. They're happy under false pretenses. And Jason would never do that to Robin. Knowing she sacrificed her family for him? He would just stand there and do nothing 'cause Sam and Patrick are smiling? My brain won't even go there.

And while Jason loves Liz, I don't think he's been in love with her for a very long time now.

But, yes, it all depends what Jason comes out of this.

I agree on all points.  Jason wouldn't just step aside.  The real Jason would give his wife a choice and she would be allowed to make one, not that he would make it for her.  Also, I do think that Jason loves Liz, but he's not IN love with her and hasn't been for over a decade, imo.  Even the first time they had sex, it was all about him losing Sam.

[Asp Burger]

I hadn't watched this show in years before I saw the last two episodes. I don't even remember what was happening on it when I stopped. I had just had enough.

 

I see that nurses' ball is still a mixed bag! I thought Wally Kurth would do much better with that Queen song than he did. The Spinelli actor was pretty good, though. 

 

Rebecca Herbst never ages! She looks almost the same as she did when she was married to Ric. That surely was 10 years ago?

 

I hated Courtney so much, but I kind of liked seeing her ghost. Alicia Leigh Willis looked good too. The ghost was not as annoying as the living version. Did she borrow Angel Ellis's wardrobe?

 

I had never seen Nik's son, but I think he is a scream. What a funny little actor. I'm glad they cast a kid who can do the comedy, because the idea of a triangle with three little kids would be creepy if it were too serious. 

 

Nik's son was wearing the same kind of mask that Stefan wore when his face got burned after the dirty cop beat him up. Did that get referenced in the story? He was hiding in Wyndemere wearing that, and he kidnapped Lydia?

 

I liked the new Jason, but he is not Jason. He is not any of the versions of Jason. But I like him more, so I am not complaining.  

 

Those are my only thoughts. Be nice, because I have no idea who half of these people are! I feel like I didn't get the worst of Carly. She was a reason I stopped watching. She wasn't so bad in these two days, though. I like her with the new Jason too. 

Edited May 6, 2015 by Asp Burger

[FilmTVGeek80]

 

It's not quite as clear-cut as when Todd #2/Victor Jr. re-raped the amnesiac Marty Saybrooke on OLTL, who Todd had raped once before a decade prior and was now romancing with her unawares, but it's close enough for me.

 

This is a pretty good example. People were up in arms about that, and it was pretty much treated as unequivocally rape, so I'm not sure why Liz has some sort of wiggle room just because "Jake" wants to be with her. Marty without her memory spent ages with Todd/Victor and wanted to be with him, but that didn't make what Todd/Victor did okay, or not rape.

[TeeVee329]

Jake(son) (to Liz): It's not your fault I'm still in the dark about who I am.

 

Me: Oy, I am not ready for 3-6 months of this.

[Jazzy24]

Oh Olivia you want to protect your baby from his mobster father? Well you dumbass maybe you shouldn't have had sex with a mobster again, just stupid.

[jennifer6973]

All is right in my GH world Nathan/Maxie are back together.

 

if that is wrong I don't want to be right.

[CPP83]

Watching Olivia sniveling and begging Sam to keep her mouth shut was disgusting, especially as she basically tried to guilt her into it. 

 

The pregnant and scared teenager that was Olivia way back when is no comparison to the grown ass woman who willingly bedded a known mobster.

 

For her now to whine and cry about about the baby's safety and life being at risk is nonsense because all she had to do was not sleep with a known mobster and take a chance getting pregnant by him. You don't want your baby in danger? You don't want him or her ending up potential collateral damage in a mob war or dispute? Don't sleep with a known mobster, it's just that simple.

 

And could someone ask her if she had ended up pregnant by Sonny when she was so willing to take him back, and even went so far as to try and help him with the "business" would she have immediately tried to lie and say it was someone else's? 

 

She has always annoyed me but this is just taking the cheese cake. Another stupid and really unnecessary pregnancy making bad characters even worse...thanks Ron. You ass.

 

So now they're making Greenlee a full fledged...I don't even know now. But it is really deplorable.

 

Nik really needs a bullet to the base of his skull.

 

The bus and train tracks running up and down Liz's back are really distracting during the scenes between her and "When is my contract up again?" Billy Miller as Jake as Jason Morgan.

 

When Ron wants a character to get a scarlet letter he clearly doesn't hold back at all.        

 

I can't even with the other scenes, they made me miss the terrible singing...see what you've done to me Ron? Ass.

[backhometome]

If Olivia is so anti mob then why did she have a romantic relationship with the man that shot her son in the chest?????

 

I'm already done with this Liz/Jake mess. How many months will RC drag out this lie. 

[HeatLifer]

I agree on all points. Jason wouldn't just step aside. The real Jason would give his wife a choice and she would be allowed to make one, not that he would make it for her. Also, I do think that Jason loves Liz, but he's not IN love with her and hasn't been for over a decade, imo. Even the first time they had sex, it was all about him losing Sam.

Yep, exactly. I'm with you.

Jake(son) (to Liz): It's not your fault I'm still in the dark about who I am.

Me: Oy, I am not ready for 3-6 months of this.

I'm gonna think Liz is despicable on a daily basis and it's annoying.

[Francie]

So the reason for Duke's epiphany that he wanted Anna more than the mob was .... REASONS!!

 

Gah, this show.

[Jazzy24]

I'm still wondering how such a useless character as Olivia have managed to stay on this show she's so useless, but the writers are talentless and hacks so of course she is still on.

[FilmTVGeek80]

 

For her now to whine and cry about about the baby's safety and life being at risk is nonsense because all she had to do was not sleep with a known mobster and take a chance getting pregnant by him. You don't want your baby in danger? You don't want him or her ending up potential collateral damage in a mob war or dispute? Don't sleep with a known mobster, it's just that simple.

 

It's not really that simple. I know a lot of people have been saying that, but it's not so cut and dry. Was Olivia an idiot for sleeping with a known mobster? Hell, yeah. But should she just throw up her hands and go, "well, I made my mistake, guess my baby should suffer for it?" I was cheering Alexis on years ago when, she a grown ass woman slept with Sonny, a known mobster, but decided to lie to him about Kristina's paternity to keep her safe. I never chalked it up to "Well, she's an idiot, so I guess her baby should die because of it." Olivia made her mistake and if it was just about her suffering for her foolish choice, that's one thing. But her kid shouldn't have to pay the price. Same way I don;t have a problem with Michael taking AJ from Sonny. Yeah, Ava's a criminal herself, who willingly choose to sleep with Sonny, but it doesn't mean AJ should have to pay the price for it.

 

Ugh, I hate both Spinelli/Ellie and Nathan/Maxie so was very disappointed in the outcome of that storyline. Though I did LOL at one moment. Maxie told Spinelli she's not good enough for him. Is Nathan such a block of wood that it never even occurred to him "Hey, if you're not good enough for him, but you want to be with me, what the hell does that say about your opinion of me?"