NFL Thread

[Carey]

According to FanDuel, the Bengals are favored by 3.5 over the Dolphins.  That’s as of 11:25 AM EST.  The over/under is 48.5.

While I like Bengals on the moneyline, and while it’ll look like Cincy should win going away, we don’t know how “back” they are.  They played the Jets.  However, Cincinnati’s 2 losses were by 6 points.  Miami is rather decent with wins over Belichick, Harbaugh & Lamar, and Josh Allen.  They survived against Buffalo.

However, Miami is a bit banged up, and they’re travelling up North on a short week.  They’ve over performed, and Cincinnati has underperformed.  Therefore, while I like the Bengals to win the game, I think Miami can at least keep it close in what might be a competitive game.  Albeit not a shootout, meaning that 48.5 will fall short of getting beyond there.  Had it been a normal week, I think that they each reach 30 points

38 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Chiefs over Buccaneers.  

Kansas City is not being Tampa Bay, period.  Unless they have another threat to fill in the void left by Hill. 

Plus I would stay away from Steelers/Jets.  Jacksonville probably has a chance against Philadelphia.  Peterson's motivation to stick it to Philly + a decent AFC South team might have the 1972 Dolphins drinking as early as they did in 2010

[merylinkid]

And after all the speculation, the Bucs game will be played IN TAMPA.   Apparently Tampa itself came through okay.   Fort Meyers Beach is destroyed though.   But hey, as long as the stadium is okay, let's play ball RIGHT?

[Irlandesa]

22 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

And after all the speculation, the Bucs game will be played IN TAMPA.   Apparently Tampa itself came through okay.   Fort Meyers Beach is destroyed though.   But hey, as long as the stadium is okay, let's play ball RIGHT?

I know there are people in MN disappointed they're not getting a free football game.

[mojoween]

I’ve been fond of Cincinnati for over 30 years, and would hate for them to start 1-3.  And I’ve never cared much about Miami at all.

But the media has been SO shitty with how they talk about the Dolphins, that I kinda hope they go 4-0.

Both of these things cannot come true, heh.

If it were based on uniforms alone, I would NOT root for the Bengals.  Where is the orange?

Edited September 30, 2022 by mojoween

[Carey]

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

I’ve been fond of Cincinnati for over 30 years, and would hate for them to start 1-3.  And I’ve never cared much about Miami at all.

But the media has been SO shitty with how they talk about the Dolphins, that I kinda hope they go 4-0.

Both of these things cannot come true, heh.

If it were based on uniforms alone, I would NOT root for the Bengals.  Where is the orange?

If Miami escapes, they can say they took the "orange" with them.  After all, they sorta have a little orange in them!

[emma675]

Holy shit, I hope Tua is okay. They need to knock it off with the replays.

[Popples]

I hope Tua's all right. That was awful.

[galaxygirl76]

That was terrible to watch and I really hope he's ok. Fuck the Dolphins though for him to be out there to begin with.

[Xeliou66]

That was an awful injury to Tua, brutal to watch, hope he’s okay. He was already banged up coming in and probably should’ve been held out tonight. Tua’s always been injury prone and that was rough. Bridgewater is a capable QB so we’ll see how the Fins do with him in there.

Good game, looked like it was going to be a shootout then the defenses got some stops, nice TD pass from Burrow to Higgins, and then a nice Fins TD drive to make it 14-12 at halftime. Good game.

[Salacious Kitty]

I just turned on the game in time to hear that Tua was being transported to the hospital. What happened? Was it a clean hit? Was he scrambling? I don't have the stomach to watch the halftime coverage to actually watch replays.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Salacious Kitty

[ScorpioSoul]

Update- Tua is alert and has full movement of his arms and legs.

[Lamb18]

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I know there are people in MN disappointed they're not getting a free football game.

I don't know why the game would be free for us. I was looking forward to seeing a sea of red downtown.

I got home around 10 minutes ago to Bengals getting a penalty for picking up a Miami player and slamming him to the ground. Was that Tua? A few minutes later the announcers talk about Tua's injuries and being taken to the hospital. They sound awful.

[emma675]

9 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I just turned on the game in time to hear that Tua was being transported to the hospital. What happened? Was it a clean hit? Was he scrambling? I don't have the stomach to watch the halftime coverage to actually watch replays.

He got hit and knocked his head on the ground again. It looked like he curled up into a fetal position before straightening out rigidly on his back with his hands kind of spasming. If he had a concussion from the game last Sunday, and to me it seemed like he did, another head injury on top of that could be catastrophic. 

[Danielg342]

I do hope Tua makes a full recovery and recovers soon. My thoughts are with him for sure.

However, and this may be unpopular, but the Amazon Prime panel was way over the top talking about him nonstop. They seem to have forgotten the Bengals were playing this game and that I'm sure Bengal fans would want some analysis on how they did.

First topic of discussion, sure...but not the only one.

[mojoween]

If Miami was under investigation for their sham treatment of Tua last week, it should have been mandatory for him to sit out until the investigation was complete.

I wasn’t in the room at the time, was that play flagged?  Because that sure looked like unnecessary roughness under today’s rules.

We’re at the point in the streaming where the audio is cutting out, the screen is freezing, the audio is playing while the video is buffering and when the video is working, it’s a shitty picture.  Awesome.  Amazon Prime is not free, NFL.  Get your shit together.

Edited September 30, 2022 by mojoween

[Fukui San]

47 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I just turned on the game in time to hear that Tua was being transported to the hospital. What happened? Was it a clean hit? Was he scrambling? I don't have the stomach to watch the halftime coverage to actually watch replays.

He was in the pocket and took what a wrestling fan would call a German Suplex onto the back of his head. Not sure if there was a flag. It wasn’t late but it was powerful. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Fukui San

[Salacious Kitty]

1 minute ago, Fukui San said:

He was in the pocket and took what a wrestling fan would call a German Suplex onto the back of his head. Not sure if there was a flag. It wasn’t late but it was powerful. 

Damn. Hope he's okay. 

[Xeliou66]

Bengals up 20-15 in the 4th, very competitive game, both teams have struggled to get a rushing attack going, meaning both teams are pretty dependent on the pass. Exciting game.

[twoods]

I hope Tua is okay- it looked like he was posturing which indicates some sort of a traumatic brain injury. He needs to rest that head of his for at least a month because the next head injury could be catastrophic. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by twoods

[Xeliou66]

Bengals get the win 27-15 - good win for the Bengals, Burrow played well, 287 yards and 2 TD’s, he made some big throws down the stretch, and the Bengals defense got some big plays when needed. Both teams need to be able to run better and be more balanced going forward. The Dolphins played a competitive game and Bridgewater was solid replacing Tua but their secondary couldn’t hold up against the Bengals receivers. I hope Tua is okay and makes a full recovery, scary injury. Good, competitive Thursday night game.

[merylinkid]

T'ua is ALREADY being discharged from the hospital.   He might even fly home with the team.   Every other player who looked that bad on the field (the fencer position is a marker for a concussion) is kept over night.

T'ua himself went along with the back spasm story.   His AGENT hasn't spoken out and  you those MFers scream bloody murder if their clients aren't treated right.   

It's a CINCY hospital, why would they care about rushing him out the door?   Why is everyone acting like this is NORMAL for someone who has been observed behaving in an obviously concussed manner.   Something is NOT RIGHT here.   

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I just turned on the game in time to hear that Tua was being transported to the hospital. What happened? Was it a clean hit? Was he scrambling?

I only saw it once so my memory might be faulty but I'll share what I remember.

It seemed like there was some separation from where he was and where most of the action on the play was. I don't know if it's because he was backing up or others were moving forward but he was still in the general area of the pocket.

The defensive guy seemed to have a straight, unencumbered line towards Tua.  Because of the distance and the lack of people to slow him down, he managed to gain a lot of momentum.  I actually cringed when I saw it because it didn't seem like Tua realized the guy was gunning for him.  It didn't look like he tried to step out of the way at all which also might have blunted some of the momentum from the defensive guy.

The defensive guy eventually spun him but I think that was largely because of the momentum he had from the run. 

It wasn't flagged.  Could it have been?  Maybe but at the time I thought it was a good no call.  It ended up being a violent hit but I think the ferocity of it was mostly due to momentum rather than an intent to harm. 

Now, I could see the NFL fining the defensive guy when they should have be looking at themselves after last week.

2 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

I don't know why the game would be free for us. I was looking forward to seeing a sea of red downtown.

I saw Ben Leber on his daytime TV show mention that having been a part of a few of the games that have been moved (probably related to the collapsed ceiling) that moved games offer free tickets.  Maybe he's wrong about it. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Irlandesa

[Court]

Yeah, I don't understand why he isn't being kept for observation overnight either. That spasms of the fingers is a clear and obvious sign of injury. Tua should have never been playing tonight. 

[Fukui San]

The other thing beyond Tua's recovery from this particular injury is that he has to get rid of the ball and avoid hits. He had plenty of time after a play fake and half roll out to scan the field. If his primary reads weren't open, then he has to check down or throw it away. Brady or Manning aren't taking those hits. He will continue to be injury prone if he can't change this.

[voiceover]

That “fencing response” thing with his fingers freaked me out *completely.  And his being released tonight.  Even though — hands up — he was conscious, extremities responsive: AYFKM??

Seriously: Are you fucking kidding me?

Edited September 30, 2022 by voiceover

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, twoods said:

I hope Tua is okay- it looked like he was posturing which indicates some sort of a traumatic brain injury. He needs to rest that head of his for at least a month because the next head injury could be catastrophic. 

Let's be honest, he should probably never play again. Two concussions in a week is potentially life threatening.

It's stuff like this that makes me feel ashamed that I love this sport. It's brutal and dangerous and too many coaches and teams just don't care enough about player safety. Some clearly still see it as a question of whether you're tough enough, rather than the fact that traumatic brain injuries cannot be shaken off like a sore ankle.

The Dolphins and the NFL should be hauled over the coals for this, but they won't be.

[Danielg342]

2 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

The Dolphins and the NFL should be hauled over the coals for this, but they won't be.

Well, we weren't in the medical evaluation rooms with Tua Tagovaiola, so who knows if it was really Tua himself that talked the doctors out of what should have been an extended stay in the Cincy hospital. Not to absolve the team of anything, but if Tua looked normal and told the docs "I don't have a headache" when he probably did, I don't think there's much the medical staff can do.

Only thing I will say is that I'm not going to pretend that the Dolphins are the only team that's shady with their players' health. Every team is. What's clear to me is that the NFL needs better concussion protocols if the current ones missed what is presumed to be a bad concussion Tua suffered.

[Grrarrggh]

3 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

What's clear to me is that the NFL needs better concussion protocols if the current ones missed what is presumed to be a bad concussion Tua suffered.

The NFL is an entertainment conglomerate made up of adults. The doctors should be required to treat the players as if money didn't exist, definitely. But the players should also be allowed to decide for themselves whether or not to listen to the doctors. If the players don't want to use their power to make the NFL (and college football) better and safter they, unfortunately, have that right.

[Danielg342]

12 minutes ago, Grrarrggh said:

The NFL is an entertainment conglomerate made up of adults. The doctors should be required to treat the players as if money didn't exist, definitely. But the players should also be allowed to decide for themselves whether or not to listen to the doctors. If the players don't want to use their power to make the NFL (and college football) better and safter they, unfortunately, have that right.

I should have mentioned the NFLPA in my original post because they need to be stronger in this too. The players need to be protected from themselves.

[cambridgeguy]

3 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

The Dolphins and the NFL should be hauled over the coals for this, but they won't be.

There will be a few days of chatter and it will be forgotten unless Tua suffers significant aftereffects from this.  Remember how people were really concerned about CTE after Bennet Omalu's work over 10 years ago?  And then most fans went right on watching because boom, hard hits are awesome.  The only way for a real change to happen is if the fans demand it and stick to their guns, and that won't occur unless a catastrophe happens.  I really hope Tua will be OK, and then fans can just say that to avoid this the Dolphins need to get a better offensive line and Tua needs to work on getting rid of the ball more quickly.  Problem solved!

[Carey]

6 hours ago, Court said:

Yeah, I don't understand why he isn't being kept for observation overnight either. That spasms of the fingers is a clear and obvious sign of injury. Tua should have never been playing tonight. 

There shouldn't even have been a game tonight, period.

What happened last night was enough to lose interest for the remainder of the game.  It was horrible.  As mentioned, all the best for Tua; I'm not going to speculate what's next.  Whenever I feel better & get around to it, I might be able to put my 2 cents in here.  Putting the blame on someone isn't what's going to heal Tagovailoa, but it's fair game to discuss a situation as to what went wrong from all parties, and what can be done to prevent this from happening again, if not minimizing it.

If the definitive thing is player safety, then that fine.  It does blow my mind that, after the criticism from the players in the previous decade, throughout most of it, that they didn't fight for better structure toward relating to a quick turnaround from Sunday to Thursday.  From the roster size to the schedule itself.  I don't know what to say that a new CBA that was rushed in at a tough time, didn't address this.  Now the NFL will react with something that may or may not be helpful, but the bigger issue will remain the same.

[mojoween]

The Key, Jay and Max show this morning started with Tua, sad plinky-plonky music played and Jay was outraged.  Outraged!

Within an hour and a half, we transitioned to who is the MVP (it’s Lamar Jackson, right?), let’s break down Giants/Bears and Cooper Rush, amiright?

Tua didn’t die, and the NFL wheel keeps turning.  I’m part of the problem, because I will be watching football from 9 Sunday morning to midnight.

[Carey]

8 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Tua didn’t die, and the NFL wheel keeps turning.  I’m part of the problem, because I will be watching football from 9 Sunday morning to midnight.

In no way, shape, or form, do I want Tua to die, or any player, no matter how much I might hate them.  Sometimes, the hate is within the sport & not as a real life human being (outside of the sport).  For instance, if someone that doesn't have a history of being dirty but gets tough with a tough, clean hit that knocks out a player, I'd be pissed.  I've gotten better over the years, as I realize that the player in question was making a play to try to stop someone, to win the game.  Really no intent, but tough luck.

Anyway, no way do I want Tua or anyone to die, but, mojoween, I'm part of the problem too.  Maybe more than you; I'd still watch even if someone were to die on the field.  It would be tough, but you do it at your own risk.  The league may not be anywhere near perfect, but there has been emphasis toward preventing such an awful tragedy from happening.

Sadly, people have lost their lives in the past.  Within the past quarter century, it happened in the WWF & in basketball.  It sucked, but I didn't quit watching.  Call me an ass, but if it were me, I wouldn't want fans to stop watching over my demise.

[merylinkid]

3 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

he only way for a real change to happen is if the fans demand it and stick to their guns, and that won't occur unless a catastrophe happens. 

The only way for real change to happen is if advertisers BAIL.   Fans like us -- and yes, I will probably keep watching too so I am part of the problem too -- don't really matter to the NFL.   As long as the sweet, sweet, tv money keeps rolling in because the advertisers will pay big bucks, they will keep calling a concussion "back spasms."    Fans can help by letting advertisers know.   Or if enough of us just stop watching it won't be as profitable.   but that's going to be a loooooong time coming.

Let me tell you, last night was almost tipping the point for me.   I get it, hard hits happen*.   I get it, there is no way to completely prevent concussions.   But acknowledge these things and have REAL protocols that the player can't override by saying "I'm okay."   The whole point of the spotter was to pull players who don't want to come out of the game.   The independent medical examiner is there to not only override the team but also the player who wants back in the game to show how tough they are.   Clearly NOTHING worked Sunday and then something went wrong last night with his quickie discharge from the hospital.

*I think the Bengals defensive player deliberately threw him to the ground -- but it was still legal since he didn't put his weight on the QB.   He had a "back injury."  So the D was going for his back.   There had already been a low hit flat earlier in the game.   By twisting and throwing him, the player was hoping to exacerbate the listed injury to get him out of the game.   I don't think he realized how hard T'ua would hit his head on the ground.  And if protocol had been followed Sunday, he wouldn't have been in the game at all for it to happen.  

[Lamb18]

I don't know, I feel like that hit on Tua was almost criminal. If someone picked me up and slammed me onto the ground like that, that would be assault and I would be pressing charges (if I was able to). Even though this was done within the game, when does a move like that become an act of violence as opposed to a normal play? My opinion is that the defender went beyond what was necessary to stop Tua, and that picking him up off the ground and forcefully slamming him down showed violent intent beyond normal game play.

I also agree with you all about the lack of medical care. I hope he does not fall over dead from bleeding and swelling of the brain. After a head injury people can act normally for awhile, then suddenly die.

[Grrarrggh]

4 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

I should have mentioned the NFLPA in my original post because they need to be stronger in this too. The players need to be protected from themselves.

But where does it stop? These men aren't doing surgery or driving. Their head injuries won't possibly injure the public while they're doing their jobs. What right does an independent business have to force them to not play if they want to? Where is the line between safety and infantilizing them? I think most of the NFL backstage machinery are complete assholes who don't care who lives or dies so long as they make money, but so long as the players and coaches and fans don't care as well.... If an adult cannot make their own decisions when it comes to medical care are they really a free adult?

[bluegirl147]

1 hour ago, Grrarrggh said:

But where does it stop? These men aren't doing surgery or driving. Their head injuries won't possibly injure the public while they're doing their jobs. What right does an independent business have to force them to not play if they want to? Where is the line between safety and infantilizing them? I think most of the NFL backstage machinery are complete assholes who don't care who lives or dies so long as they make money, but so long as the players and coaches and fans don't care as well.... If an adult cannot make their own decisions when it comes to medical care are they really a free adult?

They are under contract to whatever team they play for.  Their job performance matters.  If their injury would prevent them from doing their job to the best of their ability then I do think the team should be able to say you aren't playing.  On the flip side players are part of a union that I would hope would want to ensure their members are not allowed to play when they are injured. 

Question:  Who performs the concussion test?  Team doctor or outside doctor?

[AimingforYoko]

Prescient:

Chris Nowinski has a pretty interesting bio.

[woodstock]

At this point NASCAR appears to have better concussion protocols than the NFL.

Kurt Busch has not raced for several weeks and yesterday Alex Bowman has been ruled out for this week’s race.

After what happened Sunday, Tua should have been inactive for last night’s game.

Edited September 30, 2022 by woodstock

[NUguy514]

6 hours ago, merylinkid said:

*I think the Bengals defensive player deliberately threw him to the ground -- but it was still legal since he didn't put his weight on the QB.   He had a "back injury."  So the D was going for his back.   There had already been a low hit flat earlier in the game.   By twisting and throwing him, the player was hoping to exacerbate the listed injury to get him out of the game.   I don't think he realized how hard T'ua would hit his head on the ground.  And if protocol had been followed Sunday, he wouldn't have been in the game at all for it to happen.  

Tupou was not trying to injure Tua deliberately.  The trajectory of the sack was more about physics and momentum: Tua was resisting the sack until Tupou's force in one direction overcame Tua's force in the opposite direction, at which point Tua's force plummeted to approximately zero while Tupou's force remained very strong.  Tupou went from fighting a 217-lb man to sacking a feather, and the momentum inexorably built as Tupou was able to swing Tua to the ground.

Tl;dr: It was basically a normal sack.

5 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

I don't know, I feel like that hit on Tua was almost criminal. If someone picked me up and slammed me onto the ground like that, that would be assault and I would be pressing charges (if I was able to). Even though this was done within the game, when does a move like that become an act of violence as opposed to a normal play? My opinion is that the defender went beyond what was necessary to stop Tua, and that picking him up off the ground and forcefully slamming him down showed violent intent beyond normal game play.

As I said, this was a normal sack.  Calling it criminal is ridiculous, and no commentator or expert has found it to be anything other than a pretty typical sack.  The only reason it looked so bad is because of Tua's response, and had he not suffered a concussion four days prior, I don't think Tua would've had any particularly abnormal reactions to it.

If you're going to call anything criminal, start with the Dolphins and their coaching and medical staff, who all blatantly lied about what Tua's injury on Sunday was and who should never have allowed Tua to play last night.

[Xeliou66]

12 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

Tupou was not trying to injure Tua deliberately.  The trajectory of the sack was more about physics and momentum: Tua was resisting the sack until Tupou's force in one direction overcame Tua's force in the opposite direction, at which point Tua's force plummeted to approximately zero while Tupou's force remained very strong.  Tupou went from fighting a 217-lb man to sacking a feather, and the momentum inexorably built as Tupou was able to swing Tua to the ground.

Tl;dr: It was basically a normal sack.

As I said, this was a normal sack.  Calling it criminal is ridiculous, and no commentator or expert has found it to be anything other than a pretty typical sack.  The only reason it looked so bad is because of Tua's response, and had he not suffered a concussion four days prior, I don't think Tua would've had any particularly abnormal reactions to it.

If you're going to call anything criminal, start with the Dolphins and their coaching and medical staff, who all blatantly lied about what Tua's injury on Sunday was and who should never have allowed Tua to play last night.

Agreed - the sack wasn’t a dirty play and rightfully wasn’t called a penalty. The people who need to be held accountable are the Dolphins staff who cleared Tua to play last night when he clearly wasn’t ready.

[Fukui San]

The sack might have been penalty worthy, or legal. It was borderline, and I wouldn't argue that much either way. But certainly nothing more than that, not criminal.

Basically on every football play, around ten actions occur that would count as assault if it happened on the street.

[Chit Chat]

That replay of Tua's hit is hard to watch.  As a Bama fan, it was all too reminiscent of the hit that took him out in college (injury-wise).  I hate to see any player get scooped up off of the field and carted off.   As much as I love to watch football, I wouldn't want to play the sport.  I don't think the risk is worth it, but these guys do, so that's a decision only they can make. 

[Chit Chat]

21 hours ago, merylinkid said:

T'ua himself went along with the back spasm story. 

Looking at the footage of that injury, he was clearly not thinking straight.  That wasn't a wobble from a "back spasm."   

My son played football in Jr. High and one of the guys came off of the field after getting hit in the head.  He was sitting on the bench chanting "there's water in the cooler!" (The young guy was okay).    In my non-expert opinion, Tua clearly had a "water in the cooler" moment from last week's hit.   This latest injury is unfortunate on several levels.  I wish Tua all the best.  

[Carey]

Posting my picks a day in advance (as opposed to 1-2 hours before the 1 kickoff).  Plus, the Sunday slate starts on 9 in the morning EST. 

I'm not going to be around on Sunday.  I guess you can say I'm on a pitch-count; the seasons are long.  Felt that way FWIW even during the 16-game, 17 week slate.  Maybe I'll build the energy & time to watch all 18 weeks in full for the 2023 season (not the 2024 one though LOL).  You probably don't know who's who until Weeks 5-9.  Still should be able to make time for the GOTW, SNF, and MNF.  Plus the international stuff.

Week 4 picks: Minnesota, Cleveland, Baltimore, Dallas, Detroit, Houston, Indianapolis, New York, Jacksonville, New York, Arizona, Green Bay, Denver, Tampa Bay, San Francisco

Big games O/U & ATS:

Minnesota is favored by -3 over New Orleans.  Over / Under is 41.5

Green Bay is favored by 9.5 over New England 39.5 O/U

Tampa Bay is favored by 1 over Kansas City 45.5 O/U

San Francisco are favored by 1.5 over Los Angeles 42.5 O/U

Minnesota & New Orleans open the international series.  Winston is hurt; Minnesota isn’t that great, but I actually like the Vikings to cover.  It’s not a night game.  Under hits.

Even with Hoyer, that’s a lot of points.  I’ll take the Packers & they’ll win by double digits.  I might’ve stuck with the Pats had the game been in Foxborough (then again, the line would not have been 9.5).  Under here since I don’t see a lot of offense & the defense might not score that much due to immediate POOTOS (points off of turnovers).

Bucs win outright.  No threat for the Chiefs, and Tampa’s defense is very good.  The over hits since the Bucs are getting people back against a good at best defense.  KC might be able to score though, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they got shutout.

Info comes to you courtesy of FanDuel, data as of 1:05 PM EST

[Popples]

[twoods]

Dolphins found their scapegoat. They should all be at fault, including the player who knows his body better than anyone else. If you feel like shit you shouldn’t play. 

[Chit Chat]

11 minutes ago, twoods said:

Dolphins found their scapegoat. They should all be at fault, including the player who knows his body better than anyone else. If you feel like shit you shouldn’t play. 

I love Tua, but your words are exactly how I feel.  I think it was wrong to fire this individual for what appeared to be a group fail.  Everyone involved should take accountability for their decision-making in letting him play.  If Tua wasn't thinking clearly, then all the more reason to bench him, even if Tua thought he was okay.  Concussion protocol is there for a reason.  We'll probably never know the whole story.  Every one of them is in CYA mode at the moment.  

[meowmommy]

7 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

I think it was wrong to fire this individual for what appeared to be a group fail.  Everyone involved should take accountability for their decision-making in letting him play.  If Tua wasn't thinking clearly, then all the more reason to bench him, even if Tua thought he was okay. 

The player should be the last person making the decision.  Given a choice, being the hyper-competitive creatures they are, they will always choose to play. 

The team doctor and the independent neurological consultant are supposed to have absolute veto power over letting a concussed player back in, and obviously both of them dropped the ball.  I do agree that multiple heads should roll, so to speak. 

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, meowmommy said:

The team doctor and the independent neurological consultant are supposed to have absolute veto power over letting a concussed player back in, and obviously both of them dropped the ball. 

Some of the articles I've read about the potential long-term effects to Tua are very scary.  I'm really worried about him.  It would probably be best that he find some other career in football (off the field).   He's a very talented young man, but the money just isn't worth this kind of assault on his body week after week. 

ETA:    “We now are fully certain that traumatic brain injuries lead to new mental health disorders. That’s what we have to worry about for the next 20 years. Increased rate of depression, anxiety, self-harm, [and] s*****e risk goes up considerably. Basically, one in 30 people his age that have a concussion, like 3% will develop suicidal ideations. … Let’s hope that he recovers, but there is a very good chance he will not recover full speed. He will not feel the same, he will not be able to play at the same level and who knows where that can spiral too because we’ve seen it before, time after time.

– Chris Nowinski on Tagovailoa’s long-term outlook

Edited October 2, 2022 by ChitChat