S03.E13: The Wrath Of The Lamb

[Bec]

I… didn’t hate it. But I didn’t love it either. I feel conflicted. Hee.

 

Considering this show has never used pop music with lyrics (if I remember right?), it felt so out of place and too on the nose. And the Bedelia scene just left me all confused.

 

It was beautiful, though. I’ll give it that.

 

Will’s talk with Reba was in the book, right? I haven’t read it, but I do remember Will comforting Reba in a similar way in the Ed Norton movie. Of course, in this version, it came off more like “you’re in love with a serial killer? Me too, girl, me too. I know exactly how you feel for reals.”

 

The only objection I would have to Will and Hannibal kissing and having sex is that it seems too… pedestrian for these two. Seems to me their connection is beyond all that somehow.

 

Totally agree that it’s not like Hannibal at all to throw Will and himself off a cliff. So pretty sure Will was the one who did the “Thelma and Louise”-ing.

 

One way to interpret Will throwing himself and Hannibal off the cliff is that it was his way of saving everyone else. That seems true to Will’s character.

 

what if Chilton was supposed to become the show's version of Buffalo Bill?

Oh man, when he was talking about wearing Hannibal’s skin, my mind went to Buffalo Bill, too. It’s gotta be at least a nod to that, even if he’s not going to become Buffalo Bill.

[ketchuplover]

Tonight's Super Bowl game featuring the Packers and Eagles has made episode 12 my series finale. Awesome ending! Best finale ever!

[Fen]

Wow.  Well - it certainly wasn't what I was expecting - but was perhaps inevitable, in many ways.

 

Hannibal and Will's relationship has been the focus of the show for three seasons.  In season three, we got to see what it looked like with Hannibal behind bars, and Will with a life and family.  It was not portrayed as a satisfactory conclusion, mostly because Will did not actually catch Hannibal.  Hannibal chose to be caught in order to remain in Will's life.  What little we saw of Will's homelife showed Will seemingly disconnected, his relationships with his wife and step-son superficial - full of gaps and silences where Will had omitted important details of his past and personality.  Over the next three years, the other characters' lives all still circled around Hannibal in some way: guarding him, or writing about him.  Will coming back into contact with Hannibal was what was required to break the tension of that situation - much like he broke Chiyoh's status-quo.

 

So - Hannibal going back to prison would not have worked dramatically - given what the show has done so far. Been there, done that.   Equally, we've seen what happens when they try to kill each other.  That doesn't work either.

 

Bedelia called it.  'Can't live with him, can't live without him.'  Will's not entirely 'gone' morally.  He had his moment of remorse about Chilton in the previous episode to signal that to us. He attempts to console Reba.  While he was able to kill Dolarhyde here, that was a survival moment, and also what we already know Will can do: enjoy killing 'bad' people.  But long-term?  Would he be able to countenance what Bedelia could in Florence?  Killing the rude, or the inconvenient?  No.  Equally, it's been made obvious that he cannot break his connection with Hannibal, and has never been able to match the intimacy of that relationship.  So what can he do?  Kill them both.  Can't live with him, can't live without him.

 

It was also heavily sexually charged.  Toppling over a cliff together is basically this show's equivalent of the old 1940s tropes of showing waves crashing on a beach, or a train going through a tunnel.  It was as much a sex scene as a death scene. 

 

I read the post-credits scene as Bedelia cooking her own leg and waiting for them both to arrive.  She knows trying to escape is futile - so she'll try to negotiate survival.  Why not?  It worked for her before. 

 

I didn't see that as a happy ending for Alana.  Not only is she on the run, now, but she's sold just about every aspect of her professionalism and morality out here.  She looked tearful and guilty when talking to Chilton.  Not only that - but Chilton, a man she despises, saw through her and called her out.  She's wearing Hannibal's skin, and has been for three years.  There's a patheticness to that fate that we don't see for anyone else.  Hannibal also reminds her that she owes her wife and child and home to him. Her final scene looked cold to me.  She looks at Margot, but Margot does not look at her, say anything, or acknowledge her.  She might as well have been walking down those stairs on her own.  Their only connection is through holding their son's hand.  Likewise, the Verger estate behind them looked monstrously huge, oppressive.

 

Frederick is still sassy and spiteful and telling inconvenient truths even when covered in burns and undergoing painful skin grafts. 

 

Jack is maybe the worst FBI agent in the history of forever,

 

I missed Price and Zeller!!

 

The way is open for a continuation - but I honestly don't know what form it could take or how you follow on from that.  It's a pretty perfect conclusion to the story we've been told.

 

The finale song is like a Bond theme.

 

Broader observations on the season as whole - now that we've had the finale:

 

This episode felt tightly plotted and clearly thought-out.  There are even parallels to Mizumono: uncertainty regarding Will's intentions, offering Hannibal freedom, betrayal, blood everywhere, heavy sexual allusions.  However, while I can now look back and appreciate how previous episodes got us here, I still think that substantial tightening up and filling in of certain gaps would have made everything feel more coherent and cohesive.  There's too much that felt loose, or superfluous.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

After watching the final scene a few too many times, I think that Will was the one who threw them off the cliff. The first time I watched it, that was my gut feeling because I thought that when Will drew Hannibal close to him and put his head on his shoulder, he was just lulling him into a false sense of security to give himself the opportunity to throw them off the cliff. That look on his face as he leaned his head against Hannibal seemed resigned but determined. He looked like he was gathering his courage and strength to follow through with his plan. Upon rewatching, I was further convinced of this. He pulls Hannibal close and wraps his arm around him which made me think that he was ensuring Hannibal would fall with him. Then all Will had to do was lean forward.

 

Hannibal also seems resigned to this fate. Initially his left hand is clutching Will's shirt (but only his shirt, not Will himself). When Will leans in, Hannibal becomes physically passive. Not only does he drop his hand from Will's shirt, allowing Will to be the only one initiating contact, but as Will leans forward Hannibal offers no resistance, allowing himself to fall backwards.

 

Honestly there was a few points during the big fight scene where I wondered if Hannibal was going to kill Will too, simply because he knew that he couldn't have Will all to himself as his murder husband. When Will held his hand out to him, I wondered if Hannibal would stab him and then throw him off the cliff. Hannibal definitely gives off that "if I can't have you, no one else can either" vibe.

[Captanne]

So, this is the first series in a LONG time where I actually kept notes during an episode.  I haven't done that in ages.  I'm posting them here in their totality BUT, I want to say that in this episode (early on) I started substituting Hannibal (his words, Mads' performance, any reference) with "Will's Dark Side" and I think that ended up being the theme of the whole series for me.  I find this wonderful because I think it's what Harris intended from the moment he created these two characters.  So, over all, I really enjoyed this series and I think this last episode was SO good that I will really miss the show.  To see how truly good it can be.  (Except for that last 60 second collapse into slash fanfic which was too bad.  The fall over the cliff picked it right back up into goodness, though.  Imo.)

Here goes:  Will acknowledges his Dark Side, accepts it and kills it.  (Working title.  LOL)

Opening scene with Reba and Dragon – wonderful balance of the film-school art technique and moving the story along.  If we hadn’t been ruined by the first half of the season, we probably wouldn’t even notice it and just swim in the luxurious beauty of it.
Act I
If we understand from the snippet of Hannibal from Red Dragon – the meeting between Hannibal in jail and Will in this is fabulous.  If in the dialogue, when Hannibal refers to himself it can be taken either literally or in place of “the dark side of you, Will.”  As in, “Was it good to see me?”  Read that one or both of two ways:  “Was it good to see Hannibal?” or “Was it good to see the dark side of yourself.”
Crucial to that interpretation is Will’s answer – it had to be “No.” to comport with Harris’ presentation of Will’s empathic ability.
This show hit the nail on the head.
It is driving home that Hannibal is, first and foremost, Will’s dark side and all that implies.  Will is frightened of him, attracted to him, can’t deny him, can’t exorcise him.  OTH, Hannibal is a narcissistic serial killing cannibal bastard – he toys with that, it feeds his ego, he loves  it.
Nice touch with the Bates Motel.  Hee.
Act II
Gosh that is beautiful dialogue between Will and Bedelia.  Also, good outfit on her.  “More a lump than a sum.”  “You’ve just found religion, nothing more dangerous than that.  “You rightous, reckless, twitchy little man.”
Act III
Will describes the setup – only can be seen from long distances.  Does that ean for the finale, Cheyoh will be used and explained?  BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHHAHHAH
No.
FUCKING FABULOUS RELEASE ROAD SCENE.  See my comment about Reba’s scene in the opening.
Will and Hannibal on the roagd is a great reference to the Hitcher.  That was intentional.  Just as the Bates Motel sign was intentional.
“The bluff is still eroding” – this is just beautifully written.
Death scene reminds me of taking down a bull in a bull ring.
This is a strange trasnforamtion of canon.  Because the Dragon was really killed by the FBI.
Then we drop into one minute of airtime devoted to fanfiction and slashers.  It’s unwatchable unless one uses the effort to keep in mind that he’s absorbing (a la the Dragon) his own dark side.
I’m convinced Will pushed the two of them over the cliff to kill the dark side within himself while accepting it.
I’m not sure the last coda is an homage to the two or a left open door for the return of the two men.

[penguinnj]

After re-watching I also think Will initiated the fall.  They both tried living without each other- Hannibal tried to say "goodbye" when he stabbed Will in his kitchen.  Will tried to say "goodbye" when he married and moved away.  But neither was going to work.  And they both knew it.  Thematically this is maybe the only end you could have since we tried the other two.  

I'm still unsure about the post credit scene.  I'm just not sure what it sets up if the series is picked up.  With the way this story was told, there is no way Clarice could have the same effect Will had on Hannibal- so it's not really a story worth telling.  At best she would rank somewhere ahead or behind Bedelia- and that's just not compelling.  

Still calling BS that Chilton is still somehow ALIVE- come on, really?  That is so over the top that it actually took me out of the moment.

[Captanne]

Hannibal is a narcissist and only a person like Will -- who can feed his ego like ONLY Will can -- is good enough.  Clarice's role is very different and to expect her to be the same (or fill the same role) as Will's is to diminish her uniqueness and Harris' ability to write more than one character or theme.

 

Imo.

 

I don't expect Clarice to have the same effect as Will on Hannibal.  (Personally, IIRC, he treats her as a student.  Not his equal, as he does Will.)

 

ETA:  Sorry for the typos in that previous email -- I just "cut and paste" it from my laptop here.

 

EETA:  They've asked us to suspend that belief about Chilton before -- remember the child with the allergy to air?  Or whatever she had?  It's a reach that he is still able to communicate but I believe it here, sometime after his initial burning and with the precedent set by that previous character.  The first time Will interviewed him was comical it was so off.  OTH, nice reference by Will when he woke up in the Dragon's lair there in the Bates Motel room.  "You didn't break my back?"  Now we know what Chilton felt when he said, "My back hurts."  It wasn't mysterious glue, apparently it was that the Dragon breaks people's backs to incapacitate them.  

Edited August 29, 2015 by Captanne

[penguinnj]

 

I don't expect Clarice to have the same effect as Will on Hannibal.  (Personally, IIRC, he treats her as a student.  Not his equal, as he does Will.

I agree with your point, but then they run the risk of turning her into Abigail 2.0

I absolutely think it worked in the books, but I'm just not sure where she would have fit in in this particular story Fuller tells.  JMO.  I would love the opportunity to see him try though :)

[Captanne]

penguinnj

 

I agree with your point, but then they run the risk of turning her into Abigail 2.0

 

Good point.  I hadn't looked at it that way.  I agree.  

Edited August 29, 2015 by Captanne

[Fen]

OTH, nice reference by Will when he woke up in the Dragon's lair there in the Bates Motel room.  "You didn't break my back?"  Now we know what Chilton felt when he said, "My back hurts."  It wasn't mysterious glue, apparently it was that the Dragon breaks people's backs to incapacitate them.

 

I don't think Chilton's back was broken.  In the video that Dolarhyde made, he has Frederick say that he will break Will Graham's back.  It seemed a very specific promise to Will, and that's what Will was referring to, I think.  I still think the back pain Frederick referred to was the glue Dolarhyde had used to bind him to the wheelchair.  He mentions it being a burning pain - probably some kind of chemical burn going on.

 

I hid my eyes during the 'previously'.  Not watching that again!

 

It's interesting that the show made no attempt to give us Dolarhyde's backstory.  Too much of a risk of making him sympathetic, maybe?

[kechara]

I could watch this show forever. I really wish it had found a new home. I'd love to see what comes next

[Captanne]

Based on this episode?  Minus the last minute bodice ripping?  Yep, I agree kechara the cancellation is a disappointment.  I could watch SO much more of this.  So, so good.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Captanne

[walnutqueen]

Finally.  This is undoubtedly the worst show I've ever stuck with.  An exercise in masochism, I suppose; one which I'll certainly never repeat as I will avoid anything and everything with this showrunner's involvement.  I've never been so relieved to delete a show from my DVR and from my PTV "Shows I follow".  Farewell, all ye who saw what I could not.  :-)

[Captanne]

There were times (oh, the whole first half of season three up to the literal train "wreck" at the end of the Hannibalvania mess) when I wondered why I watched.  Protest about plausibility as folks did (validly, too) about the Solo Sloop Trip across the Atlantic from the Chesapeake Bay to land-locked Florence, IT, I almost turned off the series.

 

When the show was cancelled, it was so close to the end that I decided to stick it out.  I'm glad I did.  Very glad.

 

But, I've been a fan of Will Graham and the franchise since the early 80s -- so, when done well, I love this stuff.  Just love it.  I'm not defending the story because I don't feel I have to.  But if the fundamental concept is elusive, then this particular series will be unwatchable, I think.  I totally understand.

 

I'll say this -- anything that Fuller is attached to I will first give the stink eye.  He has a lot to prove, in my opinion.  Because, when he's off his game, he's just stinkeroo.

 

ETA:  Walnutqueen, did you watch "Dig"?  Because, if you are adding to  your pantheon of "worst shows ever", that one is impressive.  I'm not sure I've seen anything that can beat it in the "so, so very bad" department.  It's only 13 or so episodes but before committing valuable hours of life to it, I'd read the thread(s) here first.  They can be pretty funny.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Captanne

[kmm49]

 

The finale song is like a Bond theme.

Yes! I love 60s/70s songs and for a second I was like this would be a great James Bond song even for a new James Bond movie today. Who's the singer? I know the title's Love Crimes.

 

As someone who's very picky with her TV time I doubt I'll give another Fuller show a try but I'm so glad I stuck with this show even though I wish season three could've been differently in the beginning. The biggest stink of the season for me was Bedelia and thanks Fuller for ending with her! Yes, I'm being facetious. The cliff ending would've been enough.

 

I look forward to following Dancy and Mikkelson's careers. Also, I was a huge fan of The X-Files and I know they're remaking the show but I doubt I'll watch it since Fuller has ruined Gillian Anderson in my eyes! For shame!

Edited August 29, 2015 by kmm49

[kechara]

I enjoyed the first season of Pushing Daisies too. I did not watch the second. I have to say, even at its worst, this show was better than most of the crap on network TV I will certainly try American Gods. And anything with Mads or Hugh or Raul especially. I will also look out for a few others

Was it siouxie and the Banshees? I thought I read that somewhere. It's called Love Crine

Edited August 29, 2015 by kechara

[halopub]

Yep, it was a new track by Siouxsie Sioux of Siouxsie & the Banshees, co-written with Hannibal composer Brian Reitzell.

[Tippi Blevins]

Ah, so it was written specifically for this show, and that scene. No wonder it felt so on-the-nose. In a good way, to me, anyway.

 

I've seen the theory floated on tumblr that Will and Hannibal didn't jump off the cliff at all and that's why you don't see them still falling when the camera looks over the edge right after. It's not like it goes from slow motion to regular speed, so it seems like we should still see them on the way to impacting the water.

 

I don't know. I'm perfectly fine with having the ending up in the air, so to speak. If they took the fall, then I think they both meant to die. If it's only a symbolic falling, like the imagery of both Will and Bedelia sinking through miles of water (or blood in Will's case) earlier this season, then I'm fine with that too. I mean, anything's possible. A pig gave birth to a human baby. Chilton survived levels of bodily harm that should have killed him multiple times over. Jack went along with Will's "fake Hannibal escape" plan. I can't begin to predict what's "logical" on this show.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Tippi Blevins

[Fen]

Ah, so it was written specifically for this show, and that scene. No wonder it felt so on-the-nose. In a good way, to me, anyway.

 

I've seen the theory floated on tumblr that Will and Hannibal didn't jump off the cliff at all and that's why you don't see them still falling when the camera looks over the edge right after. It's not like it goes from slow motion to regular speed, so it seems like we should still see them on the way to impacting the water.

 

I don't know. I'm perfectly fine with having the ending up in the air, so to speak. If they took the fall, then I think they both meant to die. If it's only a symbolic falling, like the imagery of both Will and Bedelia sinking through miles of water (or blood in Will's case) earlier this season, then I'm fine with that too. I mean, anything's possible. A pig gave birth to a human baby. Chilton survived levels of bodily harm that should have killed him multiple times over. Jack went along with Will's "fake Hannibal escape" plan. I can't begin to predict what's "logical" on this show.

 

I've read that post too - and it is pretty convincing.  Like you - I'd be happy with either, and it's testament to the show that it can believably offer so many possible interpretations, all of which are satisfying.

[bhammer100]

Yep. This will defenitly go down as one of my favorite shows of all time. Right below Deadwood and Justified.

 

I love the first season and the way the show incorporated the "case of the week" to further the plot along. To show Will decending into the darkness. I loved watching Will and Hannibal therapy sessions. I loved seeing Hannibal's interest in Will grow over the course of the season. I loved seeing Hannibal before he was "Hannibal the Cannibal." It just might be my favorite season.

 

And season 2! Incredible. The fight scene at the beginning of the season, Will in prison, the Vergers, and that incredible season 2 finale. Wow.

 

And season 3. I know season 3 gets a lot of hate around these parts, but i loved it. I loved the dive into the dream world. The heightened aesthetic (which some people see as pretentious. I don't because i don't find Bryan Fuller pretentious.) added to the themes of loss and grief and acceptance. It has some problems. I wish we spent more time with Pazzi. I wish we saw more of Alana and Margot's relationship. After reading some posts on Chiyoh, I'm fine with her character and her motivations. The show could have handeled her a little better... but all in all the Italy arc i found to be really great. A slow build that lead up to the fantastic Digestivo.

 

And the Red Dragon arc. I love it. Yes, we've seen this before. But not with these characters. And there was enough changes that it wasn't just a retread.

 

And this finale. I would be fine if the show never comes back. Love it.

[Desperately Random]

I'll say this -- anything that Fuller is attached to I will first give the stink eye.  He has a lot to prove, in my opinion.  Because, when he's off his game, he's just stinkeroo.

 

ETA:  Walnutqueen, did you watch "Dig"?  Because, if you are adding to  your pantheon of "worst shows ever", that one is impressive.  I'm not sure I've seen anything that can beat it in the "so, so very bad" department.  It's only 13 or so episodes but before committing valuable hours of life to it, I'd read the thread(s) here first.  They can be pretty funny.

I don't think I'll be looking for any of Fuller's shows in the future either. I really did enjoy season 1 and 2 but this season was a bit of a disappointment. I think that his two major mistakes were the Chiyo storyline and shortchanging the Red Dragon episodes. Chiyo was a wasted character and really added nothing to the story. They should have eliminated all her scenes and reduced the "Hannibal on the Run" arc to 5 episodes. Then they would have had 8 episodes for the Red Dragon and they could have fleshed out Francis' backstory and showed more of him and Reba. Also,  I would have liked to have seen more of the science nerds and  they could have added more of Will and his life with Molly. The whole Red Dragon story seemed rushed and it was the story that should have been the pinnacle of the Hannibal series, not the rushed finish.

As far as "worst shows ever", I'm guessing you don't watch "Under the Dome".

As someone who's very picky with her TV time I doubt I'll give another Fuller show a try but I'm so glad I stuck with this show even though I wish season three could've been differently in the beginning. The biggest stink of the season for me was Bedelia and thanks Fuller for ending with her! Yes, I'm being facetious. The cliff ending would've been enough.

I was spoiled as to the ending with Bedelia, so when I watched the episode I turned it off after Hannibal and Will went over the cliff. As far as I'm concerned that is where the show ended.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Desperately Random

[Captanne]

For the next fifteen minutes, I'll spoiler this:   Regarding the bit after the credits:  

The Bedelia scene, I think, was only worth the fact that the table was set for three, including Bedelia at the head of it.

 

ETA:  And, LOL about "Under the Dome".  I have found, in my old age, that Stephen King "homages" tend to be either fucking brilliant or fucking awful.  No in between.  I waited until the reviews started coming in and chose to forego "Under the Dome" television show.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Captanne

[AimingforYoko]

"I'd leave the country if I were you, Bedelia. Meat's back on the menu." Damn, Will. As the great philosopher Rick James once said, "Cold Bloooooooded".

Damn, Francis' death was much more epic in this version. And Will and Hannibal's end was very Holmesian.

[Primetimer]

Film and farewell in the Hannibal finale.

Read the story

[bmoore4026]

Well, that was fucking heart breaking.

 

Will and Hannibal, I dedicate this to you:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2y7woasr_s

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Appears that Bedelia ended up back in Florence and on the menu

A la Gideon, prepared by Hannibal and Will?

Welp, farewell show.

Edited August 30, 2015 by MrsRafaelBarba

[Chaos Theory]

First off I don't think anyone was going to be truely happy with the ending. The show had at least another year left in it and was cut short by low ratings and stupidNBC so it was going to be inherinty dissapounting for a lot of people:

That being said: I did enjoy some of it.

What I liked; I liked the final scenes between Chilton and Alana and Alana and Hannibal. I am pleased that she survived the show with her nice little family. Surprised but pleased.

I liked the scenes with Will and Bedelia. I am aware a lot of people don't care for Bedelia but I have always liked her character and her final scenes with Will were telling.

Most of all I liked the final scenes with Will and Hannibsl. I thought the ending was great. I liked that Hannibsl finally got Will to kill and in end they had the moment they always wanted but Will is who he is and pulled them both over the cliff. Again I know a lot of people won't like that for several reasons but I think it works for the narrative.

What I didn't like: j never particularly cared for the Red Dragon story but I kinda enjoyed Will an Reba meeting. Also the last few minutes with Bedelia and her cut off leg and the set table and the food....that was just plain needless unexplained WTF.

Honestly I was hoping for illusions of Silence Of The Lambs even if the show never got the chance to go there.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[dargosmydaddy]

Post mortem with Fuller. He confirms that Will initiated the fall and explains the Bedelia scene:

 

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/hannibal-creator-i-wanted-to-be-sure-we-had-an-ending-for-the-story/1

 

As for me, I'm still processing...

[Broderbits]

The fight scene was a ballet choreographed by the Marquis de Sade. I can't remember the last time a television show astonished me like this one has, and on broadcast tv too. Hannibal, you will be missed......

[Madding crowd]

I loved the show madly, but hated the ending. There is no way that Jack wouldn't have insisted on a plan where his lead agent, Will at least had a chance to survive. Why would they leave things so open that police officers could be murdered? I also will never believe Will loved Hannibal more than his wife and stepson, and loved him enough to sacrifice his own life for last hurrah. I would have loved it if the Red Dragon was killed and Will killed Hannibal and walked away, washing his hands of the whole Hannibal obsession. If they wanted us to think Will was madly in love (with Mads), then why make him a straight man at all? Why have Molly and Walter? As for Hannibal, I don't believe he really feels any type of regular emotions like love or even sexual attraction. Seeing his ecstatic face as he held Will doesn't compute with emotionless Hannibal to me.

 

I wasn't sure what was going on with Bedelia in the last scene, but thought it was sort of a homage to Clarice's story even though I know Clarice didn't lose a leg. It was her outfit and the setting I guess. And lastly, I might be the only one who wasn't that over the moon with Armitage's performance as the Red Dragon. He was missing something, I don't know what. 

 

Well, I will have to look for my darling Hugh Dancy is something else, but I doubt he will get such a juice role again.

[annlaw78]

I really want to know who Bedelia got to cut off her leg and cook it for her. If Cordell were still alive, he could have handled both jobs for her.

I took it that Hannibal survived and finally got what he wanted.

A bit disturbed that to catch one serial killer, the FBI is willing to lose half a dozen cops. Seems like a bit of a false economy there.

Loved shot Hannibal's pissy looks while waiting on Will to intercede with the Dragon.

Really didn't care much about Reba. The oddly stylized and cold way they had her speak made her seem just some stock Hannibal-verse character.

[MisterGlass]

I went into this expecting to be disappointed, and was surprised to find how much I liked it. 

 

I liked the showdown by the cliff and the joint effort required to destroy Francis.  Bringing Francis into close contact with Hannibal was something I had hoped for, and him going through Will I didn't anticipate.  It gave Will the opportunity to embrace the little Hannibal toned voice in his head and channel the rage and anger and contempt at people worth of it.  Having done that, there really was no way for him to go back to any semblance of a normal life.  If he dies destroying Hannibal, he saves himself from truly becoming the monster and saves the rest of the world from Hannibal.  And he can stop feeling the pain of victims and the thrill of murderers.  It's so very sad.  Hannibal didn't oppose Will's action because he got what he wanted - true fellowship from an understanding equal remade in his image.  Hannibal said he never expected to live on except by reputation, and that was already achieved.

 

I did not expect Jack to go along with a plot to murder both Francis and Hannibal.  Alana's complicity yes, but his surprised me.  I know both Jack and Will did not anticipate the attack on the convoy by Francis, but Will knew Hannibal's escape was a possibility, and the death that could entail.  I'm left with the theory that Price and Zeller are the only good guys.  Can we have a spinoff of the two of them if the show is gone for good?  I would watch that.

 

Poor Frederick.

 

There was a nice little nod to the Wendigo in the burning deer head in Francis's home.

 

It was an interesting moment with Margot and Alana walking to the helicopter.  I haven't decided how to read it, but I do feel like the two of them are in this together, given how everything with Hannibal and Mason played out.  It was a nice incongruity that the little boy was happy and untroubled, holding his stuffed rabbit.

 

As far as overall show, I liked it a lot and will probably invest in permanent copies of all the seasons.  Season 1 and 2 were fascinating narrative and emotional constructs and Season 3 was the art house rabbit hole and whirlwind that followed.  Perfect?  No.  Fascinating?  Oh yes.

 

 

It's interesting that the show made no attempt to give us Dolarhyde's backstory.  Too much of a risk of making him sympathetic, maybe?

 

It is a surprise, but then I guess they already had their tormented and sympathetic characters in play.  In a differently structured season it would have played well.  Part of me still wonders how much is on the cutting room floor.

 

Two small things apropos of nothing - it was so weird seeing the boys in bright sunlight.

 

Ha!  I thought so too!  And no snow!

[Madding crowd]

Fuller's interview someone linked above disappointed me. I thought he alluded to changing the ending to give the shippers something they wanted. To me this show was a work of art, and art pieces need to stand as organic to the artist. It would be no different than an artist changing a painting to please an art patron. I'm sure these things are done in some cases, but it ruins the art for me. It still was quite beautiful and I will still want to own this season, but I wish Fuller would have said this was his intent all along.

[bhammer100]

A person can be in love with a person without it being sexual love. And this is what Hannibal and Will's relationship was. Non-sexual love. Although, i would argue that the love was more one sided. Hannibal loved, or was obsessed, with Will. Will had enough sense, and enough fear, that his ability to completely empathize with somebody would take him down some dark paths. And that did happen. He walked too close to the edge in season 2 that it left him confused in season 3. And this ending showed Will taking some pleasure in kill the Dragon with Hannibal. It was "beautiful." He realizes that, and his one last act of redemption is to kill Hannibal by committing suicide. Either turn into the monster that Hannibal wanted me too or end it all, taking an off-guard with him.

[lulee]

Much of Season 3 felt like a beautiful mess. So I guess it's only appropriate that the finale was as well. The whole let's-use-Hannibal-as-bait plan seemed so ill-conceived and poorly executed. It really annoyed me that Dollarhyde could find out about it and singlehandedly foil the whole plan while ensuring that only Will and Hannibal (and he) remained unharmed, and the cat-and-mouse game (or drive to modern architecture-house-on-the-bluff-and wait for Dollarhyde to arrive game) just seemed too pat. There was a lot that was emotionally resonant, but the plot was too messy.

[Maire]

I loved it and if this had to be the end it's almost perfect. Could have done without the uni legged Gillian Anderson though. Too me Hannibal is dead ( just like Tony Soprano).

[sluggish neko]

So it seems Will did get a do-over with Hannibal except instead of Jack, they killed the Red Dragon together. Now he knows how this kind of scenario plays out... not with a European vacation, but a tumble over a cliff. At least he won't be haunted by what-ifs and ghost Abigails! That last cliff scene really was beautifully shot and acted (even if it leaned a little heavy on the Hannigram slashfic) and to be honest, I'm fine with this being the end of the series. That tag with Bedelia was probably to show that they both survived, but I think it would have been better to leave it ambiguous. I'm going to pretend I never saw it.

 

I'm disappointed we didn't get to see Hannibal kill Alana. Also sad we didn't get to see the CGI Wendigo/Stag vs. Great Red Dragon Battlemania. Ha! That could be a cheesy Syfy movie.

 

Price and Zeller retelling the opening scene of Francis faking his death was hilarious. I wish I could hear them recap the whole season.

[Bruinsfan]

I thought Francis was dead and then he suddenly isn't. After his meeting I was like, who is "in bed" with who now? There were so many pairings, plotting and all, it wasn't certain who was playing whom.

And Will, you naughty boy, you and Jack and the lovely Alana, plotting and not giving the proverbial rat's butt about any cop dying in the process? Will knew the Dragon would strike, the other two can't possibly be so stupid as to not think something will go sideways, and Chilton, well, he's probably still laughing his butt off in his tube hehe..

I knew there was no way in Hell Will would actually be colluding with Dolarhyde, so when we got to the scene with him failing to mention their meeting to Jack my reaction was "Holy shit! He's setting the FBI up to free Hannibal and feed the Red Dragon to him!"

 

Could Dr. Chilton really survive in that state? Unbelievable.

It's in no way possible, but then this is the show that had a pig as a surrogate mother that bore an infant almost to full term.

 

To me that post-credits scene was like the final scene in Candyman: like Virginia Madsen's character Will has now gone through the looking glass, and become/partnered with what he most feared. Another second or two and he and Hannibal would have entered the scene as the dinner party hosts.

[Chaos Theory]

A person can be in love with a person without it being sexual love. And this is what Hannibal and Will's relationship was. Non-sexual love. Although, i would argue that the love was more one sided. Hannibal loved, or was obsessed, with Will. Will had enough sense, and enough fear, that his ability to completely empathize with somebody would take him down some dark paths.

I thought their love was a love built on obsession. They were addicted to each other even though they were no good for each other. Will was equally as bad for Hannibal as Hannibal was for Will. I honestly loved the way their story ended. They were always bound to be the death of each other.

Even though Fuller kinda says otherwise o like to think Bedelia was either more damaged then anyone thinks and did that to herself and is waiting fir Hannibal to return or one if Hannibal's other "disciples" did it and this is hope season 4 would have begun.

But for me Hannibal is dead. At least in this version of the story.

[kmm49]

It really annoyed me that Dollarhyde could find out about it and singlehandedly foil the whole plan while ensuring that only Will and Hannibal (and he) remained unharmed, and the cat-and-mouse game (or drive to modern architecture-house-on-the-bluff-and wait for Dollarhyde to arrive game) just seemed too pat. There was a lot that was emotionally resonant, but the plot was too messy.

It was crazy farfetched because why did Hannibal and Will think Dolarhyde was so hard to catch? He never proved to be that cunning. He definitely wasn't near as smart as Hannibal. Also, Will had already seen his face. I think the show just lacked the time to show Dolarhyde's smartness. They had no problem showing his craziness but maybe I would've bought the plot more if they stopped his stretching in front of the mirror and showed his cleverness. Plus, the whole season made the FBI look stupid anyway.

 

Why would they leave things so open that police officers could be murdered? I also will never believe Will loved Hannibal more than his wife and stepson, and loved him enough to sacrifice his own life for last hurrah.

YES on both points! Who's going to let these police officers deliberately be murdered to further Hannibal and Will's scenario to catch Dolarhyde? Jack would okay this? Also, why show Will having a loving wife and son and then make us believe he'd commit suicide and leave them behind? Maybe Fuller should've left off Molly and her son completely because they didn't contribute much and then he could've justified his ending better.

Edited August 30, 2015 by kmm49

[Tippi Blevins]

Fuller's interview someone linked above disappointed me. I thought he alluded to changing the ending to give the shippers something they wanted. To me this show was a work of art, and art pieces need to stand as organic to the artist. It would be no different than an artist changing a painting to please an art patron. I'm sure these things are done in some cases, but it ruins the art for me. It still was quite beautiful and I will still want to own this season, but I wish Fuller would have said this was his intent all along.

 

In this interview he specifically says he changed it to not be fan service: http://www.vulture.com/2015/08/bryan-fuller-hannibal-finale-campy-sensual.html

 

The writers and actors tried to make it more overtly sexual and Fuller's the one who scaled back on it.

 

But he has been calling it a love story all along.

[Snookums]

. Will wanted to kill Hannibal, but he could never live with the person he'd become in order to do it. It was perfect. Wrath of the Lamb, indeed.

 

 

The Lamb is sacrifice. He takes on the sins of the world through His death, no matter how many moments in his Garden of Gethsemane he has, pleading for the cup to pass from Him.

 

Will is obviously a secular version of this, since Hannibal is not the Devil no matter how hard he tried or how many candles he snuffs out. But Will finally grasped that there's no point in doing things piecemeal--you just end up being served your own leg. It's over the cliff or nothing. Ah, the classics. Now either one or the both of them can be conveniently revived if the show's ever picked up. Hey, in a world where Chilton refuses to die, anything's possible.

 

Despite Bedelia's pocketing of the fork, I really read that scene as her doing that to herself--the survivor finally can't take the suspense anymore. No need for the other shoe to drop if you're only wearing one. The expression of pained, blissful "finally" on her face spoke volumes--she can finally relax, the thing she waited for so long is here. And of course, her earned penance is not having Hannibal there to carve and serve--she's on her own, the way she's always been.

 

Jack's walking through of the escape aftermath was great--he's finally cluing in that it was Will who set that up--logistically it couldn't have been anyone else. Again, the man who showed up after three years to ask Will for just one last favor gets what he earned; the wages of sin is death, just not yours. He gets to live with no Bella, no comrades, just his knowledge that he both got Hannibal and allowed him to escape. 

[jeansheridan]

Film and farewell in the Hannibal finale.http://previously.tv/hannibal/going-off-in-act-three/"> Read the story

Lovely eulogy to a great 39 hours of art. There isn't one dead hour on this show. Or lazy acting. Hugh and Mads delivered. Fuller delivered for me. That was an epic, romantic ending. Glorious music too.

I know it was corny but "Going my way?" was my favorite line delivery. So flirty and gleeful. While shoving a state trooper out the door.

Madness. All glorious insane romantic madness.

Of course there will be more to say. I so look forward to nitpicking the hell out of this ep with you all one last time. It has been such fun.

[mertensia]

Although I hate that this show is canceled it ended beautifully.

Poor Will; in the end he was as lost to Hannibal as he had always worried he would be.

Bedelia: if it is Hannibal (and Will) that got you, as Will said : serves you right.

Poor Molly. I hope she and Walter will look after the dogs.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Post mortem with Fuller. He confirms that Will initiated the fall and explains the Bedelia scene:

 

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/hannibal-creator-i-wanted-to-be-sure-we-had-an-ending-for-the-story/1

 

As for me, I'm still processing...

Now I really can't wait to see the gag reel!

 

why show Will having a loving wife and son and then make us believe he'd commit suicide and leave them behind?

I think that Will going over the cliff was less about suicide and more about killing Hannibal. Will thought he was sacrificing himself for the greater good. In ridding the world of Hannibal, he was making the world a safer place for Molly, Walter, and everyone else. Killing Hannibal meant freeing Molly and Walter from a lifetime of looking over their shoulders worrying if Hannibal or one of his lackeys was about to murder them.

[AwesomO4000]

As far as "worst shows ever", I'm guessing you don't watch "Under the Dome".

 

ETA:  And, LOL about "Under the Dome".  I have found, in my old age, that Stephen King "homages" tend to be either fucking brilliant or fucking awful.  No in between.  I waited until the reviews started coming in and chose to forego "Under the Dome" television show.

So true about Stephen King adaptations. There generally is no inbetween... except maybe "It" and "The Stand."

 

I, too, managed to miss seeing Under the Dome, but not by any kind of planning on my part, as you did. Sadly for me, I was entirely sucked into the unfortunate show that aired opposite it called Siberia - which maybe somewhat like Hannibal was like no other television show I had ever seen - and so didn't see Under the Dome. Siberia so brilliantly (in my opinion) mimicked a reality show, that a lot of people thought that it really was a reality show, and were a bit upset that one of the "contestants" was killed at the end of the premier episode(s). Some of the characters were, for me, really fascinating (including one who sort of went insane and I am assuming somewhat psychopathic), and it sadly had some potential to go somewhere really interesting. Unfortunately NBC gave us no satisfying ending for that one, and I'm doomed to wonder WtF happened to all of those interesting characters. The thread for it over on TWoP didn't have too many of us, but we were enthusiastic. What could have been.

 

So in contrast, I am glad that should this be the end for Hannibal, at least here I am satisfied with the ending. I need to watch it again to see if I get the impression that Hannibal was distracted by finally getting what he wanted from Will, or if he willingly gave in to letting Will decide his "fate" and let Will push him over the edge. Because in some ways, I could see Hannibal respecting that decision and still being satisfied that Will had cared so much to decide to kill him and go with him over the edge.

[mertensia]

Oh, Siberia. I mourn for Siberia.

Yes this ending is one of the more satisfying I have watched. Will and Hannibal kept true to themselves. Even Bedelia did. Always doomed to be the second wife with that last name.

[mrsdalgliesh]

I'm in the group that saw Will pull Hannibal over the cliff.  Yes, Will felt the adrenaline and the power of the kill, but his humanity didn't disappear, and in that last moment, you saw him realize what he had to do.  As usual, great "eye acting" from both Hugh and Mads.  Minimalist.

 

This season's art-fullness made me admire the show more but lessened my personal investment in each character.  So I admired the ending but wasn't wrecked as I might have been if I had still been rooting for Will as I was in the past.  That's kind of a relief.  I can easily imagine that Hannibal escaped (and is off getting the wine for his supper with Bedelia) and that Will is either dead or blessedly off in some remote place with his family and all the dogs, finally ready to never ever again get involved in that insanity. (With a gazillion inner and outer scars to remind him why.)

 

Still, I am in awe of this show and the fact that it ever aired at all, much less on network television.  Kudos to Bryan Fuller and the amazing, gifted people who helped him create this work of art.  Stunning visuals, sound, makeup, creatures, and culinary displays.  Twisted, mythological, balls-out crazytown.  Loved it.

Edited August 30, 2015 by mrsdalgliesh

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I need to watch it again to see if I get the impression that Hannibal was distracted by finally getting what he wanted from Will, or if he willingly gave in to letting Will decide his "fate" and let Will push him over the edge. Because in some ways, I could see Hannibal respecting that decision and still being satisfied that Will had cared so much to decide to kill him and go with him over the edge.

I think in the moment, Hannibal embodied the phrase "I can die happy." He finally got what he wanted - to share the experience of killing someone with Will. The icing on the cake was (1) that Will admitted how beautiful it was and then (2) Will was the one who moved in to initiate physical contact with Hannibal. If Will hadn't pulled him off the cliff, Hannibal might have exploded from happiness anyway. I think that Hannibal knew this was the pinnacle of his happiness which is why he offered no resistance when Will pulled him off the cliff. In addition, he knew that going out like that meant dying by Will's hand (poetic justic in itself) and with Will's arms wrapped around him. What better way to go, especially knowing he had just had his heart's desire?

[Neurochick]

I watched the episode last night.

 

I have a feeling that Fuller might have known that this would be the last season.  Someone from NBC could have whispered it to him, so this finale could be a season or series finale.  

 

I thought it was a perfect series finale.  I really don't see how the show could have done a fourth season.  What would it have been, Will and Hannibal living in Europe, killing and eating people and evading the FBI, CIA and Interpol, all the time living in lavish homes and apartments after they killed their owners, and no one even notices?  Please.  That would have been just stupid IMO, and it would have been a re-hash of the start of season 3.

 

I think the books by Thomas Harris work because he wrote them in the 80's and 90's (maybe before?) before advances in technology were made.  In 1991, after Rodney King was beaten, people started buying video cameras, today folks have smart phones (think of all the incidents of police misconduct that have been recorded this year), and there are cameras everywhere, cameras you can't even see, not only that but there are drones everywhere these days.  So to me, the thought of Will and Hannibal just running around the world killing people makes zero sense and I suspended a lot of belief for this show, but I know there would have come a point where I would be like, "no fucking way," and turned off the TV.  

 

I hated Hannibal for threatening Alana.  I mean WTF?  She reacted the way she did because Hannibal LIED to her and lying to someone is rude IMO.  Alana should have left his ass with Mason Verger and allowed him to be fed to the pigs.

 

Also, when I think of how Hannibal was to Alana and what happened with Bedelia (I think she did that to herself), it makes the show, really dangerously close to being soaked in misogyny, but that's just my two cents.