Captain America: Civil War (2016)

[Raja]

23 minutes ago, Kanner said:

 

I think I was a little more angry with Tony about the end fight this time. And his words to Cap about the  shield. I know it was an emotional moment and I don't blame him at the start of the fight but as it went on it was clear that you had two guys just trying to get away and one guy set on destruction and murder. I am glad they added the Rhodey scene at the end because that definitely reminded me of why I like Tony.

Steve's letter at the end was perfect. Steve has always had strong convictions but has been able to own up to his wrong doings (hiding the truth about Tony's parents). He also let Tony know just because he didn't agree with Tony and the Accords he was ok with Tony following his own beliefs. And of course, he will have Tony's back if it is needed. For Steve, they are still friends. 

What a great movie!

I was Team Stark all the way through the civil war and was disappointed that he got seduced by the dark side when finding out about his parents actual murder, as opposed to Col. Zemo's family being killed by an unintentional Stark mistake in creating Ultron. Col. Rhodes got go me also basically saying he knew that moment could come when he joined the Air Force and after 138 combat missions his number came up.

 

This was the first movie in a long time that I saw twice in the theatres and unlike Age Of Ultron I have already though about putting a preorder in on the Blue-Ray. I saw it the second time in 3D and noticed nothing calling for spending more money there was also a lot more little kids in the audience and it was Spider-Man and Ant-Man who got the response from them. Watching it in  the same theatre on the same Friday opening weekend matinee the crowd was nicer than the Stars Wars crowd I was afraid that there was going to be violence from the Star wars fanboys, or just that one bunch spoiling the apple, towards the kids reacting to the movie

8 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Fuck you, Zemo. Your poor dead family would be ashamed of you.

They did stack the deck instead of Col. just being a Sekovian Intelliegence officer who turned bad for a long time from his grief like Tony did at the end he had to be a death squad commander

Edited May 8, 2016 by Raja

[VCRTracking]

I like that it seemed there were other casualties from Sakovia, because Age of Ultron made it seem they managed to get all the civilians to safety.

I think because T'Challa a noble prince, was driven for revenge against Bucky for most of the movie, when Tony(definitely a far more flawed person) finds out Bucky did kill his parents, his suddenly wanting to kill him doesn't seem out of the blue.

After having seen the Agent Carter series where Peggy is friends with both Howard and his butler Jarvis(who Tony names his first AI after) it does seem strange that Tony doesn't seem as close to her to even attend her funeral of care how she died.

Edited May 8, 2016 by VCRTracking

[Raja]

6 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I like that it seemed there were other casualties from Sakovia, because Age of Ultron made it seem they managed to get all the civilians to safety.

I think because T'Challa a noble prince, was driven for revenge against Bucky for most of the movie, when Tony(definitely a far more flawed person) finds out Bucky did kill his parents, his suddenly wanting to kill him is plausible to me.

After having seen the Agent Carter series where Peggy is friends with both Howard and his butler Jarvis(who Tony names his first AI after) it does seem strange that Tony doesn't seem as close to her to even attend her funeral of care how she died.

I understand Stark wanting to kill him, that becomes a manslaughter conviction for non billionaires however. It took two super soldiers to save him from that.

 

Was I the only one who thought that first Winter Soldier squad member that Colonel Zemo focused on in the Siberia pods looked like Superman?

[ohjoy]

On May 6, 2016 at 4:06 AM, methodwriter85 said:

Also, I love that Aunt May is basically a Gen Xer now. She's literally only 11 years older than Tobey Maguire. Seeing her with Tony jogged a very vague memory of a romantic comedy Marisa and Robert did called Only You, back in the 90's.

I loved that movie as a kid! I'm totally going to have to watch it again.

The movie was so well done -- but as a solid member of #TeamHugItOut I was kind of depressed by the end of it. The Empire Strikes Back comparisons are pretty accurate for the ending feel; there were glimmers of hope for the future, but almost nothing was wrapped up neatly or positively. The political issues that were brought up still remained, plus the physical and emotional traumas from the Avengers fracture. I'd be way more excited if I knew there was a Return of the Jedi - type film in the pipeline.

Loved Natasha and basically all of her interactions, loved Clint, thought Spiderman was cute, wanted more buddy comedy with Falcon and Bucky, and Steve and Tony each completely broke my heart.

Edited May 8, 2016 by RandomMe

[Rick Kitchen]

When Natasha and Clint were beating on each other, I was crying, "Noooooooooooo!"

[ChelseaNH]

13 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Steve decides not to trust Tony about the extra winter soldiers and the fake psychiatrist

Steve told Tony about the extra winter soldiers, and Tony shut him down.

[KatWay]

They went the comic route of making the goverment people near fascist to come off as wrong, because you know, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the demand for a troupe of superpowered people to have to answer to somebody, much less 117 countries who agreed. In the real world, nobody would be comfortable with these guys going wherever they wanted and doing whatever they wanted, no matter how much good they were doing. 

My non-American friend turned to me in the beginning of the movie and said "So Captain America thinks his moral authority is more important than the United Nations and thinks he alone decides what's best for other countries, there's a shocker", so outside of the US this mindset might have reminded people of the "world-police" accusations against the US.

In real life context, obviously the Accords would have been signed and anyone who wouldn't sign would be rightfully denounced as a vigilante, but this is the MCU so of course Ross is locking up superheroes in his basement (metaphorically). That's also something I found rather unrealistic, even with what happened you'd think there would be support for these Avengers and the public or other government officials would know about this and presumably raise concerns. All it would need was Cap going on TV to say they were being unlawfully held and there'd be an uproar.

As for the non-political stuff in the movie: I have found RDJ to be phoning it in in previous installments by basically playing himself, but damn if he didn't earn his paycheck here. I really was reminded of what a great actor he can be, he acted circles around most of the others. 

Loved Spiderman and Tony (I like Pepper, but I kind of want Tony to marry Aunt May and become his stepdad), loved Bucky and Sam together (great dynamic), liked Wanda/Vision (am slightly concerned they'll make her go evil at some point? She was the only one not pulling her punches in that airport scene), liked Natasha with everyone she shared a scene with, LOVED Black Panther and can't wait for his movie and still don't care about Clint Barton so I wasn't really moved by his outburst in the dungeon. 

[DkNNy79]

1 hour ago, KatWay said:

They went the comic route of making the goverment people near fascist to come off as wrong, because you know, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the demand for a troupe of superpowered people to have to answer to somebody, much less 117 countries who agreed. In the real world, nobody would be comfortable with these guys going wherever they wanted and doing whatever they wanted, no matter how much good they were doing. 

My non-American friend turned to me in the beginning of the movie and said "So Captain America thinks his moral authority is more important than the United Nations and thinks he alone decides what's best for other countries, there's a shocker", so outside of the US this mindset might have reminded people of the "world-police" accusations against the US.

In real life context, obviously the Accords would have been signed and anyone who wouldn't sign would be rightfully denounced as a vigilante, but this is the MCU so of course Ross is locking up superheroes in his basement (metaphorically). That's also something I found rather unrealistic, even with what happened you'd think there would be support for these Avengers and the public or other government officials would know about this and presumably raise concerns. All it would need was Cap going on TV to say they were being unlawfully held and there'd be an uproar.

As for the non-political stuff in the movie: I have found RDJ to be phoning it in in previous installments by basically playing himself, but damn if he didn't earn his paycheck here. I really was reminded of what a great actor he can be, he acted circles around most of the others. 

Loved Spiderman and Tony (I like Pepper, but I kind of want Tony to marry Aunt May and become his stepdad), loved Bucky and Sam together (great dynamic), liked Wanda/Vision (am slightly concerned they'll make her go evil at some point? She was the only one not pulling her punches in that airport scene), liked Natasha with everyone she shared a scene with, LOVED Black Panther and can't wait for his movie and still don't care about Clint Barton so I wasn't really moved by his outburst in the dungeon. 

I saw a q+a during their European premiere and Chris Evans said that in the real world he would be team Iron Man.  He agreed that they would need to be held accountable to someone.

[Crs97]

5 hours ago, ChelseaNH said:

Steve told Tony about the extra winter soldiers, and Tony shut him down.

When they first found out about the extra soldiers, Steve and Sam made the decision not to tell Tony.  By the time Steve bothered to bring Tony into the loop, the situation had escalated too far.

[Raja]

7 hours ago, Rick Kitchen said:

When Natasha and Clint were beating on each other, I was crying, "Noooooooooooo!"

Not me, they were basically sparring and the Scarlet Witch called them on it. Just like all of them save the Black Panther where, being heroes and not a death squad until War Machine took a friendly fire hit and where disabled. It was only at the end when Stark was out to murder The Winter Soldier and Captain was willing to die to protect Bucky that they were serious.

[Schweedie]

16 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

I saw it this morning, and I'm of two minds.

I disappointed that we didn't get a tight espionage thriller follow up to The Winter Soldier, with a focus on Steve, Natasha, Sam, Sharon, and Bucky.  The idea that they were going to pursue Bucky and bring him in that was set up at the end of that was given lip service in Age of Ultron, and dismissed as a 'we tried' here.  I wanted to see some character development for Sam and Bucky, and I think Agent Peggy Carter deserved more than 2 minutes of mourning.  This did not feel like Captain America's movie to me.  I felt like it was about 25% his movie.  While I appreciate Spiderman, I thought he was overly quippy in the fight.  And Tony actively recruiting a 16 year old?  That's horrible judgement.

That said, as Avengers 2.5 this was a really, really good follow up to Ultron. 

These were my feelings exactly. I'm sure it was a good movie, but I was too busy being disappointed that we got Avengers 2.5 instead of a Captain America movie to actually appreciate it. Like you say, I thought this was about 25% his movie. (My mum actually said she thought it was more an Iron Man movie, even; Tony gets more of a character arc than anyone else.) And I also wanted that tight espionage thriller - this just felt very different from the Winter Soldier, which is absolutely my favourite Marvel movie. Despite the brutal reveals in the end, this felt very quippy and fun and less serious somehow, and to me, lacking in emotional resonance. The Steve and Bucky reunion? Total anticlimax.

I might need to see it again and see if I feel differently about it going in knowing what it is. Maybe if I think about it as Avengers 2.5 that'll help (especially considering how disappointed I was with Ultron). I still feel like I was cheated out of a Captain America movie, though. That tight espionage thriller under the Russos' direction would've been brilliant.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Schweedie

[nksarmi]

3 hours ago, Crs97 said:

When they first found out about the extra soldiers, Steve and Sam made the decision not to tell Tony.  By the time Steve bothered to bring Tony into the loop, the situation had escalated too far.

But they decided that because they thought Tony wouldn't believe them AND that he might not be allowed to help them because of the Accords. I'm almost positive this was after Steve found out that Wanda was being "held hostage for her own good." There was a break down in trust there so Steve's decision makes sense.

In the "real world" anyone with half a brain would realize that "superpowered" people can't be controlled by any sanctioning body whatsoever. So the most you could do is hope they establish a sanctioning body within themselves and allow you input into the rules by which they govern their own actions. Something like - if the Avengers need to cross into another country - notify the governing body of that country. Try to arrange convert ops with the top military unit of that country or at least help them clear out civilians when possible. There are things that nations could ask of the Avengers as an organization that they don't seem to be doing but submitting their free will seems like a false promise at best. Heck, both Natasha and Tony ignored orders in this very movie regardless of what paper they had signed.

So the whole idea that the UN could tell these people what to do or what not to do simply doesn't fit with the personality of several of the characters we've been introduced to - certainly not Tony Stark. Furthermore - most comic book heroes are technically vigilantes. I know I'm mixing genres here but Batman, Green Arrow, Dare Devil, and yes even Spiderman. They operate outside of the law - sometimes they try to work with the law, but rarely do they submit themselves to it. The X-men govern themselves. The Justice League governs itself. Etc... So in the realm of comic book land where super heroes are regularly expected to take down covert organizations that corrupt good ones - the idea that any of them would truly submit themselves to the direction of the UN seems preposterous.  

I think it's funny that people find it  a sign of "American arrogance" to say he would not submit his free will or judgment to an organization he didn't trust when in truth it was just honesty - as opposed to Tony who would say he submitted but had absolutely no intention of truly doing so.

To me what would have been a far more effective approach (and if this was the case - I would have been Team Iron Man) is if the 117 nations had asked to treat the Avengers like a governing body (ie as if they were a nation to themselves) and entered into a treaty with them that outlined things these nations expected of the Avengers. And if the Avengers violated that treaty - either reparations would have to be made or it could be a cause for war. That would have made the point that the Avengers could not completely ignore the sovereignty of nations around the world and they would be held accountable if they kept acting without checks and balances - while at the same time allowing the Avengers to establish a governing organization within themselves.

Because if the Avengers worked to govern themselves rather than acting independently, then Tony might not have built Ultron and Steve might have been able to convince everyone to work with him to verify if Bucky committed the bombing in this movie or not. The Avengers needed to govern themselves and treat with other nations - not continuing acting and arguing as individuals OR submitting themselves to a governing body that they don't know is trustworthy or not.

[shortpplfedup]

26 minutes ago, nksarmi said:

But they decided that because they thought Tony wouldn't believe them AND that he might not be allowed to help them because of the Accords. I'm almost positive this was after Steve found out that Wanda was being "held hostage for her own good." There was a break down in trust there so Steve's decision makes sense.

In the "real world" anyone with half a brain would realize that "superpowered" people can't be controlled by any sanctioning body whatsoever. So the most you could do is hope they establish a sanctioning body within themselves and allow you input into the rules by which they govern their own actions. Something like - if the Avengers need to cross into another country - notify the governing body of that country. Try to arrange convert ops with the top military unit of that country or at least help them clear out civilians when possible. There are things that nations could ask of the Avengers as an organization that they don't seem to be doing but submitting their free will seems like a false promise at best. Heck, both Natasha and Tony ignored orders in this very movie regardless of what paper they had signed.

So the whole idea that the UN could tell these people what to do or what not to do simply doesn't fit with the personality of several of the characters we've been introduced to - certainly not Tony Stark. Furthermore - most comic book heroes are technically vigilantes. I know I'm mixing genres here but Batman, Green Arrow, Dare Devil, and yes even Spiderman. They operate outside of the law - sometimes they try to work with the law, but rarely do they submit themselves to it. The X-men govern themselves. The Justice League governs itself. Etc... So in the realm of comic book land where super heroes are regularly expected to take down covert organizations that corrupt good ones - the idea that any of them would truly submit themselves to the direction of the UN seems preposterous.  

I think it's funny that people find it  a sign of "American arrogance" to say he would not submit his free will or judgment to an organization he didn't trust when in truth it was just honesty - as opposed to Tony who would say he submitted but had absolutely no intention of truly doing so.

To me what would have been a far more effective approach (and if this was the case - I would have been Team Iron Man) is if the 117 nations had asked to treat the Avengers like a governing body (ie as if they were a nation to themselves) and entered into a treaty with them that outlined things these nations expected of the Avengers. And if the Avengers violated that treaty - either reparations would have to be made or it could be a cause for war. That would have made the point that the Avengers could not completely ignore the sovereignty of nations around the world and they would be held accountable if they kept acting without checks and balances - while at the same time allowing the Avengers to establish a governing organization within themselves.

Because if the Avengers worked to govern themselves rather than acting independently, then Tony might not have built Ultron and Steve might have been able to convince everyone to work with him to verify if Bucky committed the bombing in this movie or not. The Avengers needed to govern themselves and treat with other nations - not continuing acting and arguing as individuals OR submitting themselves to a governing body that they don't know is trustworthy or not.

In real life what would happen would be that every other nation would go into developing  supers themselves. So yes, Nat was right, better to keep one hand on the wheel and accept some regulation than a situation develop where each of those 117 nations started their own super soldier/alien tech-based weapons programmes.

[nksarmi]

1 hour ago, shortpplfedup said:

In real life what would happen would be that every other nation would go into developing  supers themselves. So yes, Nat was right, better to keep one hand on the wheel and accept some regulation than a situation develop where each of those 117 nations started their own super soldier/alien tech-based weapons programmes.

I think this is a theme of the comic books in a way. Not that all 117 nations develop their own but Winter Soldier was the Soviet's answer to Captain America and there are plenty of other "Cold War" type themes in older comics I believe. But Steve wasn't just rejecting UN sanctioning - he had already rejected working for the US military/government in the previous movie. Since there is by no means any real world equivalent to this - you can't just look at it as you are vigilantes or you are controlled.

I appreciate the debate of the movie because I understand why Tony said "we need restraint" AND I understand why Steve said "I won't give up my right to make judgment calls."

I'm just thrilled that I could come away from the movie still liking everyone. I was really concerned that I was going to end up hating one or more of the characters and I don't. Even if I agreed with Cap - I understood Tony.

I honestly think in the end - Tony will end up telling the whole UN to wait on hold because he really is the kind of guy to trust his own judgment more than a group of people with conflicting agendas. He's just having serious self doubt after Ultron.

[azathoth]

I liked it but not as much as Age of Ultron. My main problem was with Zemo. While I get his motivation and the dead Winter Soldiers was a nice twist, I don't see how a former Sokovian  intelligence officer had the resources to pull everything off. Bombing the conference, infiltrating the UN and reactivating Bucky's programming, finding the old Hydra base in Siberia and taking it over, all by his lonesome? He said he got what he needed from the Hydra files Widow downloaded in CA:WS, but are you telling me he was able to crack encryption that every intelligence agency on Earth has no doubt been trying to beat for two years? I was hoping one of the codas would show he was being finger-puppeted by Arnim Zola (please don't tell me he's dead, it was established early on that Zola wasn't willing to die for the cause, I'm sure he downloaded himself to Hillary's private server before those missiles hit).

[ChelseaNH]

7 hours ago, DkNNy79 said:

He agreed that they would need to be held accountable to someone.

This appears to be the step we're missing -- did anyone try to hold them accountable?  Did anyone ask questions that the Avengers refused to answer?  Or did the UN go straight to "okay, we're going to be the boss of you now"?

Also, people are all butt-hurt about collateral damage in New York City?  There was AN ALIEN INVASION.  

[Rick Kitchen]

Setting off a bomb is not a big deal.

[nksarmi]

19 minutes ago, ChelseaNH said:

This appears to be the step we're missing -- did anyone try to hold them accountable?  Did anyone ask questions that the Avengers refused to answer?  Or did the UN go straight to "okay, we're going to be the boss of you now"?

Also, people are all butt-hurt about collateral damage in New York City?  There was AN ALIEN INVASION.  

Yes and let's not forget what the "authorities" course of action was there? They were going to NUKE the city! Nick Fury - in an act of disobedience - and Tony Stark stopped that from happening.

Countless times the Avengers as a group or individually have been shown to rebel against the authorities and be correct in doing so. This is not a question of if the UN is qualified to run the Avengers - it's an issue of Tony's self doubt after Ultron. For some insane reason, he thinks if he has someone to answer to - people won't hate him for his failures or the team just won't fail. Which is stupid for an awfully smart man. I can't think of a single incident in all these movies where UN supervision would have made things better - and if the UN was as corrupted by Hydra as the US government - UN involvement likely would have made things much, much worse.

Oh and let's not forget that the awful, bad, horrible destruction that the general was showing in Washington DC of the helicarriers crashing was the result of Steve saving a few billion people. Because you know - the US government had failed to prevent itself from being taken over by Hydra and Hydra was about to put a weapon in place that would kill not only all of their enemies but everyone who might be an enemy at some point. Did Steve really need to get permission from the UN to stop that? What if the Avengers had been taking orders from the UN and they were corrupted by Hydra and ordered the Avengers to stop Steve? I mean come on - where to "real world" restrictions apply in the comic book world where an evil organization bent on world domination has seeded itself into every government?

If anything, I don't think this movie allowed Steve to point out the obvious enough. Steve should have been like, Hey Tony, remember when Natasha released all the Hydra files? Do you think there was anything she could have missed? Do you think we identified every single Hydra agent or loyalist? And if we did miss any - do you think they could be at the UN? I mean Steve had a real good reason to mistrust governments and I wish they would have let him spell that out more since this the sequel to the movie where everything hit the fan anyway. I don't think it would have been out of line for Steve to say "I will never unknowingly take orders from a Hydra agent again. You can risk that if you want. But not me - no way."

Edited May 8, 2016 by nksarmi

[Spartan Girl]

Co sign me with the frustration over the "collateral damage" issue. Nobody even acknowledged that the BAD GUYS were the ones that caused the most damage; the Avengers were at least trying to save people!

And why was Ross never held accountable for HIS actions that caused so much destruction in the Hulk movie? Instead of being drummed out of the service, he somehow winds up being Secretary of State?! WTF?!

Edited May 8, 2016 by Spartan Girl

[Shannon L.]

We saw this last night and it took me a while to process it.  All of the typical Marvel-y stuff was brilliant:  great dialog, acting, characters and all of them getting a good amount of screen time.  But the drama!  omg.....that final fight scene with Tony and Steve just about ripped me apart.  Good job by the writers for making me understand both sides of the argument, for grappling with the moral dilemma of Bucky's situation and for understanding why Tony was so angry and why Steve was so intent on saving his old friend. 

The two new characters were great additions.  The cat-like moves from Chadwick were perfect--I loved watching him in action, and the new Peter Parker was a lot of fun.  Once again, kudos to the casting agents.  They continue to hit it out of the ball park.  I can't think of one character who I think was miscast.

The only thing I didn't really like was the first couple of fight scenes--they were too quick and choppy and too close.  I kept hoping for a wider angle so it would be easier to watch. 

[Crs97]

And don't we already know that Tony basically rebuilds the communities?  Doesn't bring anyone back to life, but the Avengers don't just leave.

Of course, in no way would 117 countries meet and hash out this document without any of the Avengers knowing it.  So surprising them with it three days before the big meeting and telling them they must read and either agree or retire before it's signed is ridiculous.  This is when hubby reminds me that it's a super hero flick and to stop trying to make it make sense!

[nomodrama]

On 5/7/2016 at 10:25 AM, Crs97 said:

I saw it last night.  I am a vocal, unabashed Tony fan.  I know this is supposed to be a Captain America film, but if every Avengers-esque movie Tony is in becomes "Tony is wrong and everyone yells at him until he apologizes," then I think I am done.  I still don't know why Natalie yelled at Tony for being arrogant when he just heard about Rhodey's paralysis.  They all get mad when Tony (and Bruce - but somehow he is excused) don't trust them with the Ultron project, but Steve decides not to trust Tony about the extra winter soldiers and the fake psychiatrist and - oh, yeah - the death of his parents and somehow Tony is the bad guy in those decisions, too.  I expected during the final fight to be hearing Captain trying to reason with Tony or beg him to stop or saying he doesn't want to hurt Tony as they fight, but no Steve looks, of all things, angry as he is beating up Tony.  Tony just watched his parents not die in a car wreck, but actually be murdered in close range bare-handed, but Tony is the bad guy again.  I thought the fed-exec apology was a cop out, and frankly I am also pissed they decided to explain Pepper's absence as they broke up.  The worst moments in Tony's life and she isn't there for him?  Almost no one is?  Just no.

Yay, me too, it's kind of lonely in here....

I slept on it a bit and I realize now that it's a Captain America movie so I should not have expected Iron Man to come out on top (though no one really did). I'm just tired of Iron Man being Marvel's scapegoat.

Other than that the movie was really great. Loved seeing the ensemble. Even if having so many stars in one movie cuts on all the individual exposition, that's what makes these movies fun, seeing the group on one screen, watching them interact. Thor and Hulk were missed. Hopefully it won't be too long until a movie is made with the whole group again. 

For the first time ever, I think I finally fell in love with Spiderman. That kid was adorable. I'm actually looking forward to seeing his movie. 

Black Panther was great as well, kudos to the actor, there was something so regal and elegant about him, his speech and his fighting style were exactly I imagined T'Challa to be. 

[JustaPerson]

I knew Vision and Wanda were/are a thing in the comics, but I didn't expect them to put them together in the films. I'm (pleasantly) surprised that they did. 

[attica]

Happy to see Black Panther, a superhero who appreciates the benefit of a good mani.

Mad at the funeral scene, where no mention of Peggy's hubby was made. Way to be coy there, MU.

New Spiderdude has a distinct Young Nate Corddry thing going on. 

[Perfect Xero]

I came out pretty disappointed in Civil War. The big battle at the airport was well done, Giant man was fun, and they had the best Spider-Man ever on screen. But they spend the first 2 acts setting it up as being about an ideological difference, then in the final act it becomes all about Winter Soldier having killed Tony's parents? Cheap.

 

I felt worse coming out of this than I did BvS, because at least I expected that to be bullshit going in. All of the word of mouth for this movie made me think that they'd pulled it off, then the third act happened and ruined everything they built up throughout the movie. Much like in the awful Civil War comic series, the characters were reduced to morons in order to make the plot work. I feel like I must have watched a movie with a completely different 3rd act than the one that's getting all the positive reviews and word of mouth.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Perfect Xero

[shortpplfedup]

1 hour ago, nomodrama said:

Yay, me too, it's kind of lonely in here....

I slept on it a bit and I realize now that it's a Captain America movie so I should not have expected Iron Man to come out on top (though no one really did). I'm just tired of Iron Man being Marvel's scapegoat.

I've tended to see Tony as a precocious child they're all raising. Pretty much every other character is more of an adult, so it makes sense that a lot of what happens is due to Tony behaving somewhat like a reckless teenager. In that sense I've enjoyed watching these movies as the growing up of Tony Stark, with him really coming into his own in Civil War, and I'm really looking forward to his relationship with Peter Parker, since he pretty much HAS to be the adult there.

[wlk68]

I loved this but left the theater with a ton of questions. 

So all that's left is Vision, Rhodey and Tony rattling around in the Avengers old HQ. Steve, Sam, Clint, Wanda (and I'm guessing Natasha and maybe Sharon) are now all on the lam. And it's not as though Clint can go home back home to his family which totally sucks. And without Tony's money and tech, how are the Secret Avengers actually going to be able do any Avenging? They are all extremely recognizable. If they're spotted and caught they'll get sent back to The Raft which is basically Gitmo for superheroes. Do not pass go, do not collect two hundred dollars. I wonder if all of them, not just Bucky, are now being hidden/sheltered in Wakanda.

[Lantern7]

Wow. Just . . . wow.

How much can you hate the story without picking at nits? Zemo wasn't that great a villain as his canon counterpart, though I'm guessing he was left alive to have an experience with Adhesive X. I don't know why Clint and Scott would abandon their families to join Cap's band of outlaws. Martin Freeman is not the guy I'd want to play Everett K. Ross. I'm thinking "weaselly-looking bureaucrat, early 30s." Stan Lee's cameo at the end? "Tony Stank"? Really, Russo brothers? I know Rhodey needed a laugh after his spine got messed up, but come on. Oh, and Bucky is now Tony's Joe Chill. I don't think that was needed, to be honest.

I don't think this movie was the religious experiences that The Avengers was four years ago. It does rate with Winter Solider. It improves on the comic basis, where Tony was a prick from start to finish. You could root for either side without people calling you an asshole. We got canon stuff like the Wanda/Vision relationship. Black Panther showed that he was worthy of headlining a movie (sorry, Rhodey and Sam). The fights were awesome. And they successfully cloned Tobey Macguire! Okay, so Aunt May is still relatively young, but it's nice to see a Peter Parker who wasn't a brooder before getting bit by the irradiated spider. Sorry, Andrew Garfield. Oh, and Christopher Priest was in the credits for his work on Black Panther, as well as Mark Texiera, who did the first four issues of that book. Hopefully, this means that the Black Panther movie will be a political thriller with capes and comedy thrown in. Marvel released three trade paperbacks covering most of that run. It's never too early to brush up.

Any executives dealing with DC Comics-based movies should have to come up with their next script while locked in a room with CA:CW constantly playing. And Zach Snyder should get kicked in the nuts, because I saw how hero-on-hero action should be presented.

[Kanner]

Back to say, this is actually the first time I liked Bucky for himself. Previously, I only cared about him in relation to Steve and just thought the Winter Soldier was cool. I was actually concerned about him and not just how his outcome would effect Steve. 

I also really enjoyed the perspective of Scott. Here you have this non-professional superhero thrown into this huge moment. I loved it. 

[Joe]

One of the many things that bothered me is Spider-Man. Tony is given 36 hours to find Steve and friends. What does he do? He flies to America and recruits a teenager, one without a passport, and then goes back to Europe. Where he sends this teenager, who is in the country illegally, into battle against trained soldiers. If Thor or Hulk had been on Steve's side, or people hadn't been pulling their punches, he could have been killed!

I don't care how nifty his webbing was, it wouldn't save him from a shield to the neck, exploding truck, razor-sharp arrow, random debris, or whatever Wanda could do. If he'd just been a little less tough or agile, he would have copped more than a couple of bruises.

So while Steve didn't exactly cover himself in glory, Tony has never learned to think his actions through beforehand. He refuses to learn from his mistakes.

And in enraging news, why did no one die? So they wouldn't get back together and be in one piece when Thanos turns up. I'm sorry, I thought I was paying to watch one movie, not three. Especially when the next part is two years away. If you make a good enough movie, the audience will come back. Do they really not trust their audience that much? Considering how terrible Doctor Strange looks at this point, I think I'm out.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Joe

[VCRTracking]

Quote

And in enraging news, why did no one die? So they wouldn't get back together and be in one piece when Thanos turns up. I'm sorry, I thought I was paying to watch one movie, not three. Especially when the next part is two years away. If you make a good enough movie, the audience will come back. Do they really not trust their audience that much? Considering how terrible Doctor Strange looks at this point, I think I'm out.

First I never got the feeling of frustration like the The Force Awakens of having to wait for the next movie. There wasn't a resolution to the current problem but I felt this particular story was still over and could wait two years for the next one. Yes I know Infinity War is coming and I know the Avengers will face him but now I'm wondering how they are going to come together and repair the rift and will they do it time or will it be after Thanos causes significant damage.

Quote

One of the many things that bothered me is Spider-Man. Tony is given 36 hours to find Steve and friends. What does he do? He flies to America and recruits a teenager, one without a passport, and then goes back to Europe. Where he sends this teenager, who is in the country illegally, into battle against trained soldiers. If Thor or Hulk had been on Steve's side, or people hadn't been pulling their punches, he could have been killed!

Nobody knew where Thor or the Hulk were. Thor was off presumably doing Asgardian business and Hulk is too much of too uncontrollable and dangerous. Steve would never use him. Also the writers say Tony has been keeping tabs on all enhanced individuals so we can assume Tony picked someone he could talk into helping(Jessica Jones would probably tell him to either pay her or go eff himself) and someone who was stronger and more agile than Cap and had handy webshooters that could restrain him. Neither side wanted to seriously harm the other but things got out of hand.

Quote

And in enraging news, why did no one die? So they wouldn't get back together and be in one piece when Thanos turns up. I'm sorry, I thought I was paying to watch one movie, not three. Especially when the next part is two years away. If you make a good enough movie, the audience will come back. Do they really not trust their audience that much? Considering how terrible Doctor Strange looks at this point, I think I'm out.

 

A death on one side would mean the other definitively won. There weren't any real winners on both sides. In the movie Team Iron Man technically won because the Accords are the law but Tony lost because his best friend was injured, the murderer of his parents got away and the Avengers are in ruins while Team Cap lost because they were imprisoned and now fugitives but Steve personally won because got to save his friend.   Zemo was the real victor.

 

Quote

I came out pretty disappointed in Civil War. The big battle at the airport was well done, Giant man was fun, and they had the best Spider-Man ever on screen. But they spend the first 2 acts setting it up as being about an ideological difference, then in the final act it becomes all about Winter Soldier having killed Tony's parents? Cheap.

The third act worked for me because Winter Soldier's crimes were set up in this movie and the last where we found out Hydra killed Howard Stark. Bucky may have been innocent of the Vienna bombing but he was still guilty(even while brainwashed) of many horrible deeds including the murder of the Starks. How the Accords fitted in is when it looked like Zemo's plan was to revive the super soldiers it seemed Steve was right about the Accords hindering the Avengers from protecting the world. Then it turned out Zemo's real plan was to reveal to Tony Bucky killed his parents and not only that Steve knew about it. Steve acting on his own protected a wanted killer and instead of bringing him into justice got him into a situation where he was nearly killed by another hero acted like judge, jury and executioner, which proved they do need oversight.

Steve and Tony turned out to be both right and wrong.

Edited May 9, 2016 by VCRTracking

[Jeebus Cripes]

11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Co sign me with the frustration over the "collateral damage" issue. Nobody even acknowledged that the BAD GUYS were the ones that caused the most damage; the Avengers were at least trying to save people!

Word. Also, there were distractions in the theater during the Crossbones stuff, but wasn't he stealing a nasty virus that potentially could have caused massive casualties? Like, 11 people died, and that's really sad, but how many did they just save? That shit pissed me off. The Avengers are damned if they do, damned it they don't.

[Morrigan2575]

I loved this movie, it was highly entertaining, great action and really good character moments.  The final act between Tony/Steve/Buck was just wonderful, brutal, heartbreaking and beautiful (in it's own way).

I was Team Cap from the start and never wavered.  However, I loved that the movie gave me different sides, I could see where Vision, Tony and Natasha were coming from and why they made their choices. I loved the introduction of Black Panther, what a great character, I loved his final scene with Zemo and, I'm very excited to see his solo movie. It's funny because I wasn't really all that into the Black Panther movie when it was announced, i didn't know much about him, just that T'Challa was Storm's Ex-Husband.  However, after this movie, it's the one I'm most excited to see.

A couple minor nitpicks.  I didn't like the shaky cam that was used really early on in the movie (the Black Widow fight sequence was particularly bad, IMO).  I also didn't like the Steve/Sharon kiss, frankly I don't see much chemistry between the two, in fact I saw more chemistry in the Steve/Wanda scene (post Crossbones) than I did in any Steve/Sharon scene.  I honestly think she's a pointless character and only there ".because comics".  If you lifted her out of the movie, there'd be nothing missing at all, that goes for her role in The Winter Soldier as well. I would say the same for Vision/Wanda, that also seems to be comics motivated, although they actually have more chemistry that Steve/Sharon (IMO).  I wish they had given more explanation for Clint joining Capt's team.  I can fanwank both Clint and Scott's reasoning but, i would have liked some details to back it up.  Final nitpick, i didn't like the way they kept flashing the city/location name every time the action moved to a new location.  

All in all, I'd say this was a great Marvel movie, I was very, very happy with how they handled everything. I was happy that we got to see friends being torn apart but still after everything not really wanting to hurt the other.  I loved how, especially in the airport scene, part of Tony's anger was that he felt Capt was forcing the fight, like if Capt just stopped and signed the damn treaty they could all go back to being besties.  

Final thought, loved the movie and will have to get repeat viewings to see the best place to rank it  However, immediate thoughts are that The Winter Soldier is still my favorite MCU movie.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Perfect Xero]

2 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

First I never got the feeling of frustration like the The Force Awakens of having to wait for the next movie. There wasn't a resolution to the current problem but I felt this particular story was still over and could wait two years for the next one. Yes I know Infinity War is coming and I know the Avengers will face him but now I'm wondering how they are going to come together and repair the rift and will they do it time or will it be after Thanos causes significant damage.

Nobody knew where Thor or the Hulk were. Thor was off presumably doing Asgardian business and Hulk is too much of too uncontrollable and dangerous. Steve would never use him. Also the writers say Tony has been keeping tabs on all enhanced individuals so we can assume Tony picked someone he could talk into helping(Jessica Jones would probably tell him to either pay her or go eff himself) and someone who was stronger and more agile than Cap and had handy webshooters that could restrain him. Neither side wanted to seriously harm the other but things got out of hand.

 

A death on one side would mean the other definitively won. There weren't any real winners on both sides. In the movie Team Iron Man technically won because the Accords are the law but Tony lost because his best friend was injured, the murderer of his parents got away and the Avengers are in ruins while Team Cap lost because they were imprisoned and now fugitives but Steve personally won because got to save his friend.   Zemo was the real victor.

 

The third act worked for me because Winter Soldier's crimes were set up in this movie and the last where we found out Hydra killed Howard Stark. Bucky may have been innocent of the Vienna bombing but he was still guilty(even while brainwashed) of many horrible deeds including the murder of the Starks. How the Accords fitted in is when it looked like Zemo's plan was to revive the super soldiers it seemed Steve was right about the Accords hindering the Avengers from protecting the world. Then it turned out Zemo's real plan was to reveal to Tony Bucky killed his parents and not only that Steve knew about it. Steve acting on his own protected a wanted killer and instead of bringing him into justice got him into a situation where he was nearly killed by another hero acted like judge, jury and executioner, which proved they do need oversight.

Steve and Tony turned out to be both right and wrong.

If you get mind controlled/brainwashed in to doing something then you're not actually guilty of it though?

The only way Tony's reaction makes sense is if I'm supposed to take it that during the entire time all this was going on, Steve never explained to him that Bucky's brain was basically Swiss cheese for the last 70 years and Hydra had been using him as brainless murder-bot. Otherwise I would expect that Tony, being a very smart guy that is involved in the world of super science, and whose science-bro turns in to a giant green rage monster would understand the situation.

Basically for Zemo's plot to work either Steve has to be a complete moron for not sharing that very important bit of information or Tony has to act like a bloody lunatic.

If the conflict had simply been that Iron Man believed that Bucky was too dangerous and needed to be brought in while Cap didn't believe that they could trust the UN with Bucky the conflict would at least make sense, instead it was "He killed my Mom. You knew? ANGER! RAGE! Kill!" Hinging the whole final conflict on Winter Soldier having killed Tony's parents basically ruined everything they built the first two acts of the movie around.

[Joe]

3 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

First I never got the feeling of frustration like the The Force Awakens of having to wait for the next movie. There wasn't a resolution to the current problem but I felt this particular story was still over and could wait two years for the next one. Yes I know Infinity War is coming and I know the Avengers will face him but now I'm wondering how they are going to come together and repair the rift and will they do it time or will it be after Thanos causes significant damage.

Nobody knew where Thor or the Hulk were. Thor was off presumably doing Asgardian business and Hulk is too much of too uncontrollable and dangerous. Steve would never use him. Also the writers say Tony has been keeping tabs on all enhanced individuals so we can assume Tony picked someone he could talk into helping(Jessica Jones would probably tell him to either pay her or go eff himself) and someone who was stronger and more agile than Cap and had handy webshooters that could restrain him. Neither side wanted to seriously harm the other but things got out of hand.

A death on one side would mean the other definitively won. There weren't any real winners on both sides. In the movie Team Iron Man technically won because the Accords are the law but Tony lost because his best friend was injured, the murderer of his parents got away and the Avengers are in ruins while Team Cap lost because they were imprisoned and now fugitives but Steve personally won because got to save his friend.   Zemo was the real victor.

The thing is, I knew two years in advance that Star Wars was going to be a trilogy. My problem was that I thought this movie would be somewhat of a stand alone. I didn't know it would be continued two years later. And yes, I understand why Thor and Hulk weren't there. I was saying that if they had been, either one of them could have killed Peter. Teens have no place in an adult's war, and Tony is a terrible person for dragging him into the fight.

[KatWay]

Why were Scott and Clint there? Did Steve call them up and said drop your families and come over here to become fugitives and get arrested?

[OakGoblinFly]

On 5/2/2016 at 8:30 PM, Spartan Girl said:

I really wish Sharon had Natasha's role in Winter Soldier so they could build their relationship more, but even if she was downgraded to a minor character I still liked her. I mean, she stood with the SHIELD tech guy and saved him from Brownlow. That's worthy of caring about

But I guess I'm in the minority because of my fondness for Emily VanCamp -- who does not deserve the crap she's been getting from angers shippers and trolls on social media. I just hope the Russos give her more buildup in Civil War and Avengers: Infinity Wars.

I think Emily Van Camp is fine as Sharon Carter and I'm fine with her portrayal of the character.  I thought she and Chris Evans sparked during the few scenes they had in Winter Solider (especially the hallway scene).  Honestly, I see more romantic spark between Sharon Carter and Cap then Black Widow and Cap, so I’m fine with how it all played out.

I, for one, buy the fact that Steve and Sharon would try to steal a kiss; wildly inappropriate timing and all – and (for me) it was worth it just to see the high school boy reactions of Bucky and Falcon.

[OakGoblinFly]

On 5/6/2016 at 2:18 AM, MadyGirl1987 said:

Just got back and loved it. Tony and Steve fighting was hard to watch at points, they really went for it. Especially loved the introduction of Spidey and the Black Panther's arc.

What got the biggest reaction from the audience was anything Spider-Man and 

  Hide contents

Giant Man!

Just FYI; there are two end credits scenes. I heard somewhere there was only one. Decided to wait until the end just in case and caught it. Just in case others were only expecting one as well so they don't miss it.

 

I saw the film this weekend - I can now safely venture into social media (I was so afraid of being spoiled).

During our screen, the cheers for Spiderman started when the title card "Queens" showed up.

I think the loudest cheer/gasp was for that awesome motorcycle stunt (the one where Bucky grabs the bike as it goes by him).

I'm glad I saw the movie when I did - the audience was very engaged and vocal (in a good way) which made the experience so much more enjoyable.

On 5/6/2016 at 0:34 PM, SeanC said:

Most of Steve's "Secret Avengers" don't have solo properties going forward so the impact of this film will be negligible on them, but I do wonder what this means for the next Ant-Man film (incidentally, Scott fit very well into the group, though given that in the comics he's so closely connected to Tony Stark it still felt kind of weird to see him on Cap's team in the film).

I think that's why you Hank Pym say he didn't trust Stark in the Ant-man film - maybe it was to pave the way for Ant-man to join Team Cap??

I did love Ant-man fan-boying over Captain America - becuase honestly, wouldn't we all?

Edited May 9, 2016 by OakGoblinFly

[Raja]

6 hours ago, Jeebus Cripes said:

Word. Also, there were distractions in the theater during the Crossbones stuff, but wasn't he stealing a nasty virus that potentially could have caused massive casualties? Like, 11 people died, and that's really sad, but how many did they just save? That shit pissed me off. The Avengers are damned if they do, damned it they don't.

I guess they could have called in the Nigerians and offered assistance instead of going alone. Sure there is a real world Boko Haram infiltration issue played in the MCU by the Ten Rings in Afghanistan and some Hydra survivors, but the threat were not aliens from space but rather just a mercenary armed robbery crew 

Edited May 9, 2016 by Raja

[nksarmi]

4 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

If you get mind controlled/brainwashed in to doing something then you're not actually guilty of it though?

The only way Tony's reaction makes sense is if I'm supposed to take it that during the entire time all this was going on, Steve never explained to him that Bucky's brain was basically Swiss cheese for the last 70 years and Hydra had been using him as brainless murder-bot. Otherwise I would expect that Tony, being a very smart guy that is involved in the world of super science, and whose science-bro turns in to a giant green rage monster would understand the situation.

Basically for Zemo's plot to work either Steve has to be a complete moron for not sharing that very important bit of information or Tony has to act like a bloody lunatic.

If the conflict had simply been that Iron Man believed that Bucky was too dangerous and needed to be brought in while Cap didn't believe that they could trust the UN with Bucky the conflict would at least make sense, instead it was "He killed my Mom. You knew? ANGER! RAGE! Kill!" Hinging the whole final conflict on Winter Soldier having killed Tony's parents basically ruined everything they built the first two acts of the movie around.

Tony did know about Bucky being brainwashed - he referred to him as the Manchurian Candidate - a movie that relates entirely to being forced into doing something against your will.

So Tony knew Bucky had no control over what he did - he was just angry enough to want to kill Bucky anyway. Tony is smart but he's still emotional. Yes a logical argument for him to make would be "even if it's not his fault - he's far too dangerous to be left in the wind." But in the end Bucky decided that himself and allowed himself to be put under.

I think we were supposed to see a contrast between Tony who knew Bucky was basically innocent but was raging on him anyway and Black Panther who stopped the man who killed his father from committing suicide (despite the fact that he had been bent on murder the whole movie) so that he could be brought to justice. I loved "the living aren't done with you yet" line SO much.

I think Tony's actions just emphasize again why he feels the Avengers need restraint - because HE needs restraint. But Cap believed in him and told him he'd be there anytime he needed him. And Tony refused to lift a finger to stop Cap from breaking his team out of the floating prison. Cap and Tony will be fine - hell, the probably already are. After all, Cap did stop Tony from committing cold blooded murder - something else he would have hated himself for when everything calmed down.

[benteen]

I saw Captain America Civil War on Friday and I thought it was great.  I loved how personal and different this storyline was.  I was really impressed that with a dozen superheroes, they managed to give each of them time to shine.  That is a very impressive accomplishment.

I was Team Cap going in and am still Team Cap now.  Though I will acknowledge there are valid points to be made with Team Iron Man.  The movie handles these issues very well.

Cap is still the star but so many of these characters shined.  Love the addition of The Black Panther and I'm actually interested in seeing a Panther movie.  Boswick was great.  Tom Holland was also a lot of fun as Spider-Man and how cool was it to see him fighting Cap?  Though Holland's puberty voice wasn't exactly impressive.  I love Paul Bethany's portrayal of Vision.  It's awesome.  Him dressed up like normal reminds me of the recent Vision comic series (a very off-beat and awesome title btw). 

This might have been the best work for RDJ as Tony Stark.  Easily the best material he's had to work with.  Tony's in a very dark place here and gets put through an emotional ringer.  Great job with the CGI work to make him look like 80s RDJ.  Great little touch too when Tony grabs the hand of Alfre Woodward's character when she reaches into her purse...I can see how in his line of work he'd be on edge for that sort of thing.

Ant-Man becoming Giant-Man got a huge reaction from the audience I saw it with.

Was glad to see more of The Winter Soldier's backstory and so glad they emphasized more of the character's Russian backstory (though no history with Natasha).  Definitely loved seeing more of Bucky and really liked him and Steve remembering the old time in Brooklyn.

It annoyed me no one brought up Ross's background with the Hulk and creating the abomination.  It was total BS to blame the Avengers for what happened in New York and DC.  Loki and the Chitargi invasion was due to Shield tampering with the Tesserac.  In DC, Shield, which the government had allowed to be infiltrated by Hydra, was on the verge of killing over 20 million people.  Collateral damage is always regrettable but acceptable there to save the lives of so many.  Want to blame them for Sloveina and even what happened in this movie?  Fair enough.

[Shannon L.]

Quote

So Tony knew Bucky had no control over what he did - he was just angry enough to want to kill Bucky anyway. Tony is smart but he's still emotional.

Not only that, Tony was still hurting from what was and wasn't said during his last moments with his parents and he had to witness their murders with the murderer standing right there with him.  I think anyone would have gone off at that point. 

Quote

I think we were supposed to see a contrast between Tony who knew Bucky was basically innocent but was raging on him anyway and Black Panther who stopped the man who killed his father from committing suicide (despite the fact that he had been bent on murder the whole movie) so that he could be brought to justice. I loved "the living aren't done with you yet" line SO much.

Yes, I agree.

Quote

The thing is, I knew two years in advance that Star Wars was going to be a trilogy. My problem was that I thought this movie would be somewhat of a stand alone. I didn't know it would be continued two years later

See, I've never seen any of these movies as stand alones.  To me, this is one long continuous movie where one or two threads will constantly hold all of them together.  I can see how each set of sequels for the individual characters might stand alone, but I never really thought of them that way. 

Edited May 9, 2016 by Shannon L.

[Qoass]

Normally I wouldn't post without reading previous comments but I don't want to accidentally spoil myself.  Forgive me if I'm asking something already answered.

Is it safe to assume there's a post-credit scene to stick around for?

[OakGoblinFly]

On 5/8/2016 at 8:44 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Steve's face when he found out who Sharon was--priceless. The whole funeral sequence other than that was heartbreaking.

I love, love, love the fact that the Sharon’s eulogy (taken word from word from a speech Cap gives Spidey) is used to reinforce Steve’s belief.

[scriggle]

22 minutes ago, Qoass said:

Normally I wouldn't post without reading previous comments but I don't want to accidentally spoil myself.  Forgive me if I'm asking something already answered.

Is it safe to assume there's a post-credit scene to stick around for?

Yes.  There are two.

[Qoass]

Thanks, scriggle.  I'll stay in my seat.

[OakGoblinFly]

11 hours ago, Joe said:

And in enraging news, why did no one die? So they wouldn't get back together and be in one piece when Thanos turns up. I'm sorry, I thought I was paying to watch one movie, not three. Especially when the next part is two years away. If you make a good enough movie, the audience will come back. Do they really not trust their audience that much? Considering how terrible Doctor Strange looks at this point, I think I'm out.

 

Honestly, I see all MCU movies as building to The Infinity Wars so I don't expect complete resolution to most issues until then.  

This movie dealt the ramifications of the Avengers’ previous actions, the Accords, and the mind games played by Zemo – which all lead to the eventual splintering of the Avengers team as we knew it.   I do not believe it was ever the intention of the film makers to resolve the central issue as it is pretty irresolvable; I’m fine with that as it makes perfect sense to me.  That’s how it goes with groups/families sometimes, something comes up that causes a huge division; you stay divided for years; and then something comes along that makes you put aside your differences for the greater good.

I knew this was Marvel's plan since they announced a Phase Two (and then Three) so it doesn't really bother me since we have Dr. Strange to look forward to in November.

[DkNNy79]

1 hour ago, Shannon L. said:

Not only that, Tony was still hurting from what was and wasn't said during his last moments with his parents and he had to witness their murders with the murderer standing right there with him.  I think anyone would have gone off at that point. 

Agree.  Logically you can understand that Bucky had no control over what he was doing, but emotionally that doesn't give you any solace.  Especially when you see up close that he personally killed them.  In the beginning I thought he just caused the car to crash and that's how he died, but at the end they show that he brutally took them out after that.

One of the previews they shown was for Dr. Strange.  I've never read any comic books, so I have no idea who Dr. Strange is.  Outside of recognizing the main actor, the preview did not make me interested in that movie at all.

[Kromm]

30 minutes ago, DkNNy79 said:

One of the previews they shown was for Dr. Strange.  I've never read any comic books, so I have no idea who Dr. Strange is.  Outside of recognizing the main actor, the preview did not make me interested in that movie at all.

You aren't fascinated by white British ladies playing roles that were clearly designed for Asians?  Gasp!

As for Benadryl Cocoapuffs, I'll just keep thinking "when did Sherlock Holmes ditch Dr. Watson and get his own medical degree?"

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, OakGoblinFly said:

I think Emily Van Camp is fine as Sharon Carter and I'm fine with her portrayal of the character.  I thought she and Chris Evans sparked during the few scenes they had in Winter Solider (especially the hallway scene).  Honestly, I see more romantic spark between Sharon Carter and Cap then Black Widow and Cap, so I’m fine with how it all played out.

I, for one, buy the fact that Steve and Sharon would try to steal a kiss; wildly inappropriate timing and all – and (for me) it was worth it just to see the high school boy reactions of Bucky and Falcon.

I saw it as Steve learned his lesson from waiting too long to make a move.  Case in point, that moment earlier in the movie after he walks her back to her hotel room and the two of them are standing there awkwardly for a second.  Some people interpreted as she was maybe waiting for him to kiss her, but maybe she was hoping for him to ask if they can get together again.  Maybe both...anything could have happened before Sam burst the news about Bucky.

And Sam MUST have known who Sharon was; my headcanon is that she must have stopped in to see them at the hospital at the end of WS right before she joined the CIA.  Otherwise, he wouldn't have elbowed Steve like that when Sharon spoke at the funeral.

Anyway, once Sharon pretty much threw away her freedom and career just to help them get their suits back, Steve was done with the hesitating.  Hee.