A Case Of The Mondays: Vent Your Work Spleen Here

[PradaKitty]

I have a very good feeling about this, emma675.

[bilgistic]

I have agreed to talk to the HR rep from my former company. I have been very conflicted about it, but I've decided to just let it all out. There's no one there I will need going forward, and the few people I cared about haven't reciprocated my attempts to keep in touch.

Unfortunately, I don't think anything I say is going to change anything for the current employees.

Having had the time to reflect on my experience, I fully acknowledge that I am difficult to work with, but I give what I get. I'm perfectly respectable until I'm disrespected. I'm not a "team player". I'm a strong independent worker, and going forward, I need to focus on that. I don't need my hand held and resent being constantly asked about how things are going. If I need help, I'll ask. Otherwise, assume everything's fine. That doesn't sit well with some managers, and I understand that. I have to find the right environment for me. Bottom line, I was in an environment that was extremely ill-suited to my personality and values. I don't believe in playing politics nor allowing favoritism or nepotism in the workplace. A 70,000-employee corporation isn't a family business and one's friends and family don't belong working there.

[PradaKitty]

I wish the people work with had the same insight as you do, Bilgistic.  There are so many people in management who should not be managers.  I realized that years ago and never went down the management track.  I would have been miserable and so would the people assigned to me.

That said, 7 more days until retirement!

[bilgistic]

One of my ongoing issues (which was ignored, of course) was that people who were in charge of other people) were not given management training. Just because you rise through the ranks doesn't make you a good manager. Managing is a specific set of skills.

Congratulations on retirement!

[PradaKitty]

I totally agree with you - and just because someone can pass a written test, that also doesn't mean they will be a god manager. (They usually aren't.)

Thanks for the congrats, bilgistic.  As you can see, I'm working hard (HA!) these last few days.

[bilgistic]

Well, what are they going to do? Fire you? Ha ha ha!

[Moose135]

4 hours ago, bilgistic said:

One of my ongoing issues (which was ignored, of course) was that people who were in charge of other people) were not given management training. Just because you rise through the ranks doesn't make you a good manager. Managing is a specific set of skills.

There are a lot of places like that.  At the major daily newspaper I worked at back on Long Island, they would take a successful sales rep, wave a magic wand and say "Poof, you're a manager! Go manage!" without any training or support.  The skills that made them good sales reps were about the exact opposite of what they needed to be good managers, but they were left to fend for themselves, often to the detriment of those they managed.

[theredhead77]

@bilgistic be very, very careful as to what you say to HR. Even if they say they will not fight your unemployment claim they may turn around and use what you said against you. I'd strongly suggest not saying things like "I realize I'm difficult to work with" or "I'm not a team player" or basically any of the bolded during the meeting.

14 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I fully acknowledge that I am difficult to work with, but I give what I get. I'm perfectly respectable until I'm disrespected. I'm not a "team player". I'm a strong independent worker, and going forward, I need to focus on that. I don't need my hand held and resent being constantly asked about how things are going. If I need help, I'll ask. Otherwise, assume everything's fine. That doesn't sit well with some managers, and I understand that. I have to find the right environment for me. Bottom line, I was in an environment that was extremely ill-suited to my personality and values

[bilgistic]

Yeah, I'm going to focus about what's wrong in the environment and how my efforts to make the situation better (management training, accommodation for my job duties--a quiet place to work because my main job duties were writing and editing, pointing out nepotism, favoritism and company policy/legal infractions) went ignored...not to mention the bizarre ongoing "joke" about how I wouldn't befriend my team on Facebook. It's all just a pile of WTF. I know I didn't make it better, but I was hitting landmines with every step.

I texted my "work friend" yesterday evening. She said it's still a clusterfuck since I left...at the end of July. Oh, the satisfaction that gives me. So I know it wasn't just me.

[Hanahope]

7 hours ago, bilgistic said:

bizarre ongoing "joke" about how I wouldn't befriend my team on Facebook.

I never friend current co-workers on FB or Linked in, or anything.  If I do eventually look for a new job, or if I want to post about some concert I went to the night before I call out sick, or anything else that could be used against me, I don't want to clue anyone in at my office.  I learned that lesson many years ago, not with FB, but otherwise giving out too much personal information to the wrong person.  I'm still friends with a former employee at my firm, and so are a lot of other former co-workers, so I still don't friend her on FB.  You just never know what might slip.  

[bilgistic]

I just think it's weird and boundary-crossing. In reading the "Ask a Manager" website, I have found that I'm not alone in this thinking. The site owner strongly suggests not engaging with coworkers on social media.

I have had one real friend in all my years of working. Our friendship lasted 14 years and it was really before the advent of social media. One lasting friendship in all my jobs since I was 15. Coworkers are almost never your true friends. I will die on this hill.

If course, I have a different definition of "friend" than others do. I was told that many times over my employ, as well. Will you take me to the ER in the middle of the night? That's a true friend.

Edited October 26, 2017 by bilgistic

[Bastet]

In my first "real" (post-college) job, there were five of us in the department, all women, and we all became friends outside of work as well.  We're all still friends, even though we haven't worked together in 20 years.  But that was an anomaly for me; other than that, while I like and socialize after work with many of my co-workers, there aren't any I consider friends -- I don't share much about my personal life with them, I don't see them on weekends, I don't expect to keep in touch via more than the occasional email once we no longer work together, etc.  I don't use social media, but if I did, I wouldn't "friend" any of them on Facebook.

[JTMacc99]

Earlier this year I got an employee transferred to report to me because the role has some responsibilities that clearly are under my watch to be done correctly. The role also has at least 75% nothing to do with me and everything to do with the former department.

This person was promoted last year, and this year I spoke with the previous supervisor (who is a high level executive in the company and a really good person) and we felt that an above average rating was reasonable for the annual review resulting in a higher than average raise, but not outside of normal. 

The employee was extremely upset with this, and then told me stories about years of feeling undervalued. Information that would have been nice to know BEFORE I put in for the annual increase, because I would have definitely considered a special consideration. I think this person offers value to the company and is at the low end of salary for the current title. It is typically unusual for a person to get approved for a special consideration the year after a promotion, and I seriously doubt it would have been approved. I also think even the effort of me attempting to get it might have meant something to this person. This happened in August.

Yesterday the employee came to me and warned me that another company is in the process of making and offer and it may be too good to pass up. The down side is that the person would increase commute time from 45 minutes to probably and hour and forty-five minutes, a lot of that on trains as opposed to driving. This person is the main provider for the family of two children and would be losing some time with them, but would also probably not be working from home after hours as much. The upsides however are numerous. The biggest one would be a 130% pay increase, and this person could really use the money.

I wanted to stop the conversation right at that point and say, "Are you high? We'll definitely suffer for quite a while as we deal with replacing everything you do, but you owe this company nothing. Go! Go get rewarded for all of your hard work."  But instead of "Are you high?" I told a story about how I grew up as a professional in a company just like this person has done here, and I eventually had to leave that company to go get the large pay increase I had earned. I didn't leave out the part about how difficult it would be to replace all of the work done by this person. We also talked about a game plan for what it might take to keep the person from leaving, both money and what needs to be done to shift responsibility around.

It was a hard talk. I feel for this person who is struggling with not wanting to leave something comfortable and/or just afraid of change. It was a strange feeling to want to say, "I'm thrilled for you as a person, that's a phenomenal offer and you totally deserve it! That's more money than this company pays people who sit behind these glass walls with executive titles! (Okay, I did say that last one, because I know with first hand knowledge that it was true. I also made a note of where this offer came from, should I ever want increase my commute time by 8X in exchange for a giant pay raise.)

It's also a hard talk because this is a unique company. With every other place I've ever worked, it would be fair to say, "You don't owe this company anything, and this company is a business first. If there came a day where your role could be moved somewhere else, or eliminated, you would be given a small warning and package and out the door you would go."  But here, in the 20 years of existence, this reasonably large company has never once had a round of layoffs just to make financial results look better. When it does move roles from one place to another, it bends over backwards to find new jobs in the company for the people left behind.  And I think people who have been here a long time really come to appreciate it and become more loyal than anyone should be to an organization. I think that is playing into this person's decision making.  I also stand by my initial thought of "Are you high? Go take that offer!"  Even if the commute and role prove to be too much for this person, it completely resets the market value going forward for the rest of the career.

[emma675]

JTMacc99, you sound like a good manager (I already know you're a good person). And your employee has a hard choice to make, although it's a good one. Ultimately, she has to weigh the pros and cons, but I think you've given her good feedback.

I was going to turn in my resignation today but my manager called in sick! Hopefully she's better by Monday or I'm going to have to resign to her manager, because I'm not waiting any longer.

[hoosier80]

@emma675, submit the resignation on Monday.  I had a horrible job quite a while back.  We had zero work.  I mean nothing to do.  I spoke with someone in another department, same deal.  People were ok, not real friendly, but I don't need to be best friends with co-workers.  It was so boring; you'd think it'd be a cake walk, but it was mind numbing.  I had been interviewing on/off with another company, and the HR person was working with me for a while to find a good fit.  I had panicked due to unemployment almost running out (I had worked for one of those large corporations that had gone bankrupt, due to management greed).   I should have waited a few months, but hindsight and all........  Anyhow, the company came through with an offer, and my direct boss was on vacation.  Rarely saw this person, as she worked from home 100% of the time because she had two small children.  I shit you not, she talked management into her working remote every evening when the kids were asleep.  I never saw but maybe a grand total of 6 emails from her in a 4 month period.  The new job was to start in a definite 2 weeks (they had basic training they wanted me to attend).  I had no choice but to call this boss while she was on vacation, and I said I'd also sent her my resignation letter via email.  Honestly, since she was remote, no way to get to her other than to drive to her house, I guess.   She came in on my final day to learn the system I'd learned (it was so easy - I learned it within a couple of days); she'd never bothered to learn anything about it.  I left at noon.  I was never so happy in all my life!  Even if you have to submit it to the boss' boss or even HR, do it.  Don't look back.

The big laugh of the week came from possibly the rudest person in our company touting the virtues of an email etiquette course.    This is someone who will yell at you across a room, slam the phone down on co-workers, write borderline illiterate emails talk loudly about private parties that only a few people are invited to, then says how everyone should take this course.  Pot meet kettle.   Yeah, I'll take it when management buys her a muzzle.

[riley702]

This one! This one!

Edited October 28, 2017 by riley702
moving picture down

[Hero]

This week is my last week at my job. I am seriously counting down the days. I'm trying to will myself to just last a few more days. 

Monday's are the worst in this job because my lunch gets cut in half because we are so busy. It's constant speaking to customers for 8 hours, and my voice is virtually gone by the end of the day. There is no relief. There is no time to take a breath. 

If they see you have more than 30 seconds between calls, they add another queue. 

Management added some new guidelines to which we have to follow to a T, or we will fail our calls. They give no room for mistakes, and earning a zero on the call is inevitable. 

I have never been so micromanaged in a job in all my life. I can't wait to get out of here. 

[emma675]

Today is the day I turn in my resignation. I even wore my lucky underwear so I don't chicken out, lol!

[theredhead77]

You got this @emma675!!!!!

[LexieLily]

This is my first time posting in this thread so if I do it wrong, let me know :)

I work as part-time staff in a front desk/admin capacity at a specific office at a college. Things between my supervisor and I have been - not great for a long time. If you asked me I would say she doesn't respect me because I don't feel like she does, even though I have worked there longer than her. The way she speaks to me is demeaning and disrespectful and the few times I have tried to carefully bring it to her attention, she doesn't exactly deny it, or she turns it around on me and makes it like I am resisting her authority and/or being insubordinate and disrespectful for bringing it up. Basically the majority of what I do is wrong; my commination skills and active listening skills are lacking, my time-management and organization are an issue and I don't know what I am doing wrong or how to "change it" because I don't see what she sees I am doing that is bad. If there are issues I have no problem admitting them and am more than happy to change, but the examples of "incidents" she gives me don't make sense to me in the grand scheme of things. I do try not to take it personally but it is hard when the way she talks to me makes me feel like I am incompetent at my job.

Today, for example, she called me into her office and said that she had gotten complaints about me that I was rude/mean/unhelpful/etc to students that came in. I asked her if I was allowed to ask who made these complaints, she said yes, I asked, and she said she couldn't say because she didn't want any retaliation. I was offended. The reason I wanted to know was that I am 99% sure I am not mean or rude, so I wanted to know if there was a specific person and maybe there was a specific incident (with specific circumstances). So now I am confused and have no idea what she is talking about. She had said that the counselors (other staff members) have gotten these complaints about me too and to be honest I am tempted to ask to speak to one of them tomorrow privately tomorrow and ask if they know what is going on because I don't know if I would get the truth from my supervisor. 

She also used something that happened today as verification that I need to work on my active listening skills. She has a daily schedule for us up on the wall blocked off by the hour (yes, we are micromanaged to that extreme) and though I was scheduled to do something else, she asked me to stay because there was something she needed to discuss with me. A few minutes later she called for me and asked me a question about the student exam schedule I had printed out for that day. I answered her and asked her a question of my own and proceeded to tell her I would be in the back room doing what she had scheduled me to be doing. Not ten minutes later she found me and was upset because she told me to stay up front to talk to her. I apologized and said that I assumed we already had, when she asked me about the schedule. She hadn't made it clear that there was anything else she wanted to talk about. She said that I shouldn't assume and that I didn't listen.

Help?

[emma675]

Well, I did it, I just resigned.

I'm freaking out, I've never quit without another job lined up! I feel better already but also still freaking out.

On the plus side, my manager said she wouldn't be surprised if more people quit over the next few months (and insinuated that she might be one of them) due to the horrible CMO. So it's not just me who was feeling the stress and frustration. I don't know if that makes me happy or sad.

 

LexieLily, it sounds like you and your manager have a communication gap. Could you ask her for examples of what was said when students said you were unhelpful, instead of asking for names? That wouldn't be out of line, I would think. How are you supposed to work on changes (assuming there are any to be made) if you have no idea what is being complained about?

[Moose135]

Good luck, @emma675!  I know it feels scary right now, but I'm sure you will find something better soon.

[hoosier80]

Well, I was so angry today I was shaking.  There was a demo for the one system/app where Dip is supposedly the expert.  I've asked questions so I'm more familiar with it, and the knowledge pool is shallow there.  Like a kiddie pool at best.  So the app is shitty, and it's been on the list for a do-over.  I never saw the announcement, but there was a demo for the new improved shitty app today.  Dip is on the demo, along with some new people, and a couple of project managers.  Dip leaves immediately afterwards, after all it was 5 minutes after her regular quitting time!!  One PM comes over and says already left?  Yep.  I said well it's nice that I was not included.  PM looked dumbfounded.  You weren't invited?  Well, maybe because it's just the first demo of what they're planning on doing.........I said whatever.  I am just stuck with doing all the actual work, so sick of it.  Well this PM has been known to blab back to Dip, and I hope they do.  If Dip says anything, I plan on saying well, if we have an issue when you've left for the day with new and improved app, and I have zero training, I'll just give them your home and/or cell number, since you clearly want to handle it all by yourself.  It's purely a way that she thinks she's saving her job - if she's the only one who knows it, then they can't fire her.  Same stunt that she's pulled for a long time now.   

Now I'm cool as a cucumber.  You want it, then you can handle every issue that comes along with that app.  Do not expect any help from me.  Oh, and by the way, you just pissed off the wrong person, Dip.   

[bilgistic]

I just talked to the HR rep at my former company. I wish I could say it made me feel better, but it didn't. One of the cats barfed when I was on the phone, which felt very appropriate to the situation. A sympathy barf, if you will.

[emma675]

Bilgistic, can you give us any details?

 

I heard back from the job I'm interviewing for, they "are excited to bring me back for another interview". This will be ROUND FOUR. I have no idea who is left to talk to!

[ratgirlagogo]

4 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I just talked to the HR rep at my former company. I wish I could say it made me feel better, but it didn't. One of the cats barfed when I was on the phone, which felt very appropriate to the situation. A sympathy barf, if you will.

Sympathetic as I am I'm not gonna barf for you - but our cat Chandu did barf this morning as she often does - perhaps her spidey cat senses at work?

Why didn't the phone call make you feel better?

[NutMeg]

4 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I just talked to the HR rep at my former company. I wish I could say it made me feel better, but it didn't. One of the cats barfed when I was on the phone, which felt very appropriate to the situation. A sympathy barf, if you will.

"Sympathy barf" is golden and I'm going to use it often.

But I'm sorry to hear that the call with HR was so upsetting  - why? what happened?

[BookWoman56]

@bilgistic, did the call not make you feel better in the sense that you feel nothing positive was accomplished, or is it just recognition that no matter what you and the HR rep say, nothing at your former workplace is going to change? 

@emma675, for my current job, I went to round 5 of interviews, but one of those rounds was to discuss a sample technical document they had sent me to edit. If you are at round 4, my guess would be it's either down to you and one other candidate, or it's down to you but they want some other manager/interested party to sign off on you before they make the official offer. Good luck!

[bilgistic]

Well, I know it's not going to change anything for the remaining folks, so I should've gone with my initial gut reaction and said no to talking to her. I let my sister influence my decision.

Talking about it all brought it back to the surface. The past few weeks have been uncomfortable because of other memories resurfacing, and this reminded me of more times when I'd been attacked, which frankly, felt like every day at work.

One example of the kind of bullshit that the company is about is this: In the discussion, I mentioned how the 25YO financial analyst who started in the spring was all of the sudden supervising the intern when he came on in July, and her response was, "Well, with your workload, would you have had the capacity to supervise him?" That's not the fucking point. The point is that the guy who had been there three months was supervising an intern (a.k.a. giving all his analyst work to, i.e., the company financial records that we give to investors)! The analyst wasn't even doing the small amount of stuff I was asking him to do; he was either ignoring or "forgetting" to do it. I trained him on the online campaign app for launching properties to market in my absence, but he never bothered paying attention, so when I went on leave, no one knew what to do.

I told the rep about how they continually badgered me about befriending them on Facebook. Freaks.

The rep said that my work was never under question, and that my work product was always superior. SO WHY DOESN'T THAT TELL YOU ANYTHING? I told her how my broker's team had 100% turnover when the (older) financial advisor and I came on in 2014. I told her there are now FOUR people doing the one job I did.

I was just exhausted. I feel defeated, once again. It was a waste of my time. I told her that I'm extremely soured on corporate America and will never again work in commercial real estate.

I'm at the place now where I need to be looking for work, but I'm terrified of ending up in a place like that again. I'm hoping if I try some contract work, I can ease back into it, but I'm so bruised.

I feel crazy for how I felt when I was enmeshed in it, but I know I was working for an extreme narcissist in a sick culture.

ETA: I won't say what the company is, but PM me if you want to know. They lease and sell commercial property only, not residential. They are worldwide, and the name is four letters that don't form a name. Their main color is green, so you'll recognize their signs at shopping centers with spaces for lease, for example.

Edited November 1, 2017 by bilgistic

[emma675]

bilgistic, I'm sorry this brought up painful memories for you. Maybe you can look at this as the final contact, you never have to speak with them again and can officially put all of it in your rearview mirror? Easier said than done, I know.

I spoke with the HR lady at the new job this morning and confirmed that this is absolutely the last interview round and it's with the co-CEOs. We're trying to get it set up for this week or next, which is good. But good lord. I'll have met everyone but the janitor at this point.

[Mindthinkr]

Emma675  If you get this new position then it all will have been worth it! My fingers are still crossed for you. 

[Mindthinkr]

11 hours ago, bilgistic said:

 

ETA: I won't say what the company is, but PM me if you want to know. They lease and sell commercial property only, not residential. They are worldwide, and the name is four letters that don't form a name. Their main color is green, so you'll recognize their signs at shopping centers with spaces for lease, for example.

Edited 11 hours ago by bilgistic.

Be careful about this. If these jerks get wind that you might be disparaging their company it may come back to haunt you or make a future employer be wary. You know that I only want the best for you. You are smarter and a better employee than they ever gave you credit for. Their loss. Those sh#ts didn't deserve you. 

[Zola]

Being a self-employed IT contractor, I don't really have a regular monthly salary compared to when I used to work for a company.  So what really bugs me is having cashflow issues because clients don't pay their invoices in the agreed time frame (usually between 30 and 60 days, depending on the contract/project agreement). 

I can fire out reminder emails, but they will either ignore them or reply with some lame excuse such as "The person that deals with payments is on holiday/off sick for x number of days. Please try next week!" or "We will transfer your money into your account ASAP" but never do! Or at least not straight away.

Of course being only a small fish in a pond full of sharks I really don't have that much leverage other than to take them to the small-claims court - which is a timely and possibly expensive option. So they have me over a barrel until they're ready to pay up.

Frustrating, as well as causing no end of grief and anxiety.

[Mindthinkr]

@Zola My friend is dealing with that same issue and she deals with lawyers no less. So for her taking them to small claims has other ramifications. You do a job, you should get paid for it. Simple but since they aren't the ones usually living paycheck to paycheck they don't give a darn. If you are going through anything like my friend then I give you my deepest sympathy. 

[janestclair]

On 10/31/2017 at 7:48 PM, emma675 said:

I heard back from the job I'm interviewing for, they "are excited to bring me back for another interview". This will be ROUND FOUR. I have no idea who is left to talk to!

Good luck with the interview!

I thought teachers had the market cornered on ridiculous numbers of interviews.  Guess not.  For my current position teaching high school, I had 3 separate interviews (supervisor, assistant principal, and assistant superintendent), an essay and sample lesson plan, and a demo lesson in front of kids.  I thought that was pretty excessive, but at least it only took two weeks from start to finish.  I've been there 14 years, and now the process is dragged out so long we frequently lose good candidates because they get offers elsewhere, leaving us with the dregs who did not.  It's a real problem.

[DeLurker]

My SIL is the pre-AP and AP chem teacher at the local high school.  She's often asked to sit in on interviews for new hires (no matter the subject).  She has a good feel for the existing departments and the student body. 

[Zola]

13 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

@Zola My friend is dealing with that same issue and she deals with lawyers no less. So for her taking them to small claims has other ramifications. You do a job, you should get paid for it. Simple but since they aren't the ones usually living paycheck to paycheck they don't give a darn. If you are going through anything like my friend then I give you my deepest sympathy. 

Thanks. 

One of the irritations working with these clients is that sometimes they will ask me to do more work for them, even though they still haven't paid for my previous contracts. Being self-employed one has to walk a very fine line between keeping clients on friendly terms in case they do throw more work my way; but at the same time not to become too dependent to the point where they can leave you almost begging for more work, or getting paid at all!

Fortunately, I do have plenty of work with other clients to keep me going; but again it's one thing having plenty of work, the real issue is getting paid for it on time.

I did consider this when I decided to go self-employed, but it really is a PITA when clients are happy and smiley when they want something doing, but then going all awkward, in-denial and asshattery when its time to pay up!

[Hero]

 My last day is saturday!!!!!! 

I wanted to know if it would be weird to give a thank you card to my supervisor, trainor and manager? I feel like even though I hate this job, they were all so nice and helpful. Also, I want to thank them for even considering me for the job. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Hero
Missed a word

[Mindthinkr]

18 minutes ago, Hero said:

 My last day is saturday!!!!!! 

I wanted to know if it would be weird to give a thank you card to my supervisor, trainor and manager? I feel like even though I hate this job, they were all so nice and helpful. Also, I want to thank them for even considering me for the job. 

Congratulations. I don't see that it can hurt if you keep it short and to the point. It may help any attitudes that they have (for losing your good self) if you ever need a reference in the future. 

[emma675]

Hero, I think that's a really nice idea. It is also a good way to leave your office with good feelings about you, even though it didn't work out.

I finally saw the horrible CMO today for the first time since I turned in my resignation on Monday. She stopped me in the hall as she was running to a meeting, rubbed my shoulder (and she never touches anyone, weird), said she was sorry to hear I had turned in my notice and hoped we could meet at some point before I leave to see if I would change my mind.  WTF. She's not said one nice word to me in a year and spent most of the last two weeks screaming over every thing I've done. I think she just wants a warm body in the role so she doesn't have to exert any effort to replace me.

[DeLurker]

Is losing a valuable player at year end a factor?

[Mindthinkr]

@emma675 Please remember that leopards do not change their spots. Be true to yourself. 

[bilgistic]

[open new email]

"Dear CMO,

With everything I have to close out before I leave, I won't have any time to meet.

Emma675"

[send email]

[backformore]

adding my story -  about a year and a half ago, I was terribly unhappy with my job.  (And, truthfully, they  became unhappy with me.)    There was so much turnover at the top, all at once, and my new manager was known as being petty, vindictive, unpredictable, and really hard to get along with (and a little bit crazy).  she had told other people in the company that she wanted to "clean house"  and get rid of all the people in my division.   She had already fired a friend of mine, for no good reason.  He was someone everyone liked, and really good at his job.  When he was forced out, there was a big change in how we all felt at work - insecure, paranoid, unsupported, fearful of making the smallest mistake.   I considered leaving, and put out some feelers for other jobs.  I did a couple of interviews with places that were not a good fit.  Then I interviewed with another place, and one of the bosses asked me about my then-current job.  The he let me know that his daughter was an intern at the place I was employed at, in the other division, under the same (crazy) manager.    SHIT!  When I applied for the job, he asked his daughter if she knew me - she didn't, as we worked in different divisions, and in different buildings.    I was fired the next week.  I am SURE that his daughter, maybe innocently, let my manager know that I had applied to work with her father.  

Anyway - I did collect unemployment for 6 months, even though the company tried to deny me the benefits.  

  I ended up working as a private contractor for another place, and am much happier.  Though it's tough not having a set salary, and no benefits.  But it's so nice to not be paranoid at work.

I kept in touch with my co-workers. Crazy manager continued to get worse after I left.   EVERYONE in my division had quit or was fired, one was demoted,  in the next year after I left.  EVERYONE.  

[Hero]

So many fucking annoying, whiny people on the phones today! I feel so tempted to hang up on them, knowing that I'm leaving this job, but I don't want to leave on bad terms. Lol!

[MrSmith]

On 10/23/2017 at 7:01 AM, Hero said:

I need some advice about a predicament that I am in. I just got a job about a month and a half ago, and I absolutely hate it. I really want to quit, but I feel so stupid for doing so. It's a call center job and it's making me miserable. 

I got training and I feel like I am wasting everyone's time and money if I quit. 

I thought I would like the job, but I don't. I dread waking up every morning and going there. It has made me have suicidal thoughts and be generally unhappy. My mood has plummeted. 

I feel so pathetic and such a loser for not sticking it out before I even have another job lined up. I'm putting in applications as I type this. 

My question is, do you think I'm being irrational and stupid for wanting to quit?

@Hero I'd like to chime in here, as someone who worked in a call center for 10 and 1/2 years, even though I see by your last post on page 28 that you're leaving the job. People joke about the DMV being the portal to Hell, but it's actually call centers and it's exactly because of the micromanagement that you have to endure. When I worked in a call center, there were 21 metrics by which they measured our performance. Things like not being able to spend more than 300 seconds (5 minutes) on a call with a customer, not being able to be in "work state" (that is, not on a call and unavailable to take another call) for more than 20 seconds, how much time we were logged out of our phones where that logout deviated from our schedule (we were allowed 5 minutes per day for things like going to the bathroom; otherwise, you were expected to do that on your breaks and lunch), and so on. The managers in these places are almost uniformly asshole automatons that take a perverse delight in nailing you for every little thing they can find ("Oh, your average call time was 301 seconds. You need to get that back down to 300 seconds or less next month or I'll have to put you on an action plan.")

When I started working there, we had five people quit before week three of training (training was five weeks long at that time). I am glad you have decided to leave this job because no job is worth feeling the way you do. If it makes you feel any better, I hated working in the call center, too. I also dreaded waking up every day and I dealt with suicidal thoughts for 8 out of 10 years; the things that kept me alive were my wife and my promise to God not to attempt suicide again. To this day, I dislike talking on the telephone and my parents still do not understand why that is.

On 10/23/2017 at 10:04 PM, Hero said:

I was so happy to have a job, with benefits, that I ignored the voice in my head telling me to leave. I have a problem with putting the feelings of others first. Instead of thinking of me, I thought about how I wasted the company's time and money training me just to leave a little over a month later. 

That's the problem I'm still having. I feel guilty and so stupid that I went through training just to quit. 

This might help: When you're dealing with corporations (i.e., NOT owner-operated), to hell with what's good for the company. Outside of doing what's required of you at work or by your ambitions for advancement and/or personal growth, you don't owe the company anything.

[hoosier80]

So fucking annoyed again.  Got something that was all super urgent yesterday at 5 fucking 30.  Of course, everyone else on our fabulous team was long gone.  Shit that another department in another location just didn't set up because it wasn't totally active yet.  Didn't let anyone know.  Now client was bitching.  Fabulous.  We require tickets for any updates, and again, I get the question what do you need to do the updates?  Fairy dust.  What do you think I need?  Within two minutes I get a ticket, along with 3 or 4 other shitty tickets.  Then I get a VP wanting to play 20 questions on how something has worked from day 1.  I told him some basics, then he wanted to chat with me.  Nope, sorry.  I've got this now urgent stuff to do.  It took me until after 7:30 p.m. to get it all done.  

Then I get a message, oh do you think we should've had all of those added since some aren't fully active yet?  I just said they're all set up now.  Like the end.  I'm not going back to redo or delete.  

Sent out another piece of crap to another VP; wanted system settings changed when it wasn't needed.  Turns out his team set up shit wrong.  Played 20 questions with him.  So are you changing the settings?  Changing what?  System settings are good.  I almost highlighted, and said see below.  Asswipe.

Dip was moaning about new setup - 1 new set up that could be done in a day.  She said 10 days was not enough time.  Client is expecting it to be live.  This should be good.

Now, I get more on the urgent updates from yesterday.  Department that is in another location didn't respond to request for a report.  I said I'd look to see what's available, and it's nothing.  We have no reporting.  Fantastic.  So then this douchebag sends me back here's where the names have changed since it was setup (by the other department).  Of course, that other department has now dumped the set ups on our team.  I got it at 3:45 p.m. and they've had the info all damned day.  Nope, I'm not doing it today.  I know this douchebag will be out of the office no later than 4:30.  So they expect me to stay late?  Nope, not today.  The names have been wrong since August.  

We've got a new team member who they're pulling into do special projects.  Friend of the boss.  How fucking nice.  Gets to work on projects and I'm left handling day to day or the big shit that they don't trust anyone else to handle.  Boss just said oh we (meaning me) need to work on year end planning.  Why don't you have your buddy do it?  Buddy is a smoker, and takes at least a dozen breaks a day.  Comes in at the crack of dawn, and when I logged in today, first thing I saw from them was timestamped at 8 a.m.  So what do they do from 6 to 8.  Nothing.  

I'm so going to play the lottery this weekend.

[bilgistic]

I just filed for unemployment, which, if I'm approved, will force me to start my job search. I'd really rather move with the cats to a secluded cabin where there is reliable internet, but alas, even that requires money. The cats and I need to eat, and the internet isn't free.

I need to start my job search anyway because the cats and I need to eat, and the internet isn't free.

Edited November 4, 2017 by bilgistic

[Hero]

6 hours ago, MrSmith said:

@Hero I'd like to chime in here, as someone who worked in a call center for 10 and 1/2 years, even though I see by your last post on page 28 that you're leaving the job. People joke about the DMV being the portal to Hell, but it's actually call centers and it's exactly because of the micromanagement that you have to endure. When I worked in a call center, there were 21 metrics by which they measured our performance. Things like not being able to spend more than 300 seconds (5 minutes) on a call with a customer, not being able to be in "work state" (that is, not on a call and unavailable to take another call) for more than 20 seconds, how much time we were logged out of our phones where that logout deviated from our schedule (we were allowed 5 minutes per day for things like going to the bathroom; otherwise, you were expected to do that on your breaks and lunch), and so on. The managers in these places are almost uniformly asshole automatons that take a perverse delight in nailing you for every little thing they can find ("Oh, your average call time was 301 seconds. You need to get that back down to 300 seconds or less next month or I'll have to put you on an action plan.")

When I started working there, we had five people quit before week three of training (training was five weeks long at that time). I am glad you have decided to leave this job because no job is worth feeling the way you do. If it makes you feel any better, I hated working in the call center, too. I also dreaded waking up every day and I dealt with suicidal thoughts for 8 out of 10 years; the things that kept me alive were my wife and my promise to God not to attempt suicide again. To this day, I dislike talking on the telephone and my parents still do not understand why that is.

This might help: When you're dealing with corporations (i.e., NOT owner-operated), to hell with what's good for the company. Outside of doing what's required of you at work or by your ambitions for advancement and/or personal growth, you don't owe the company anything.

Thank you for your answer!! I'm soooo glad I quit. I'm learning slowly that a paycheck isn't worth me wishing that I was dead and hoping every night that I won't wake up. 

The sad thing is, that I really love the people who work there. It's such a shame that the micromanaging and metrics of calls got in the way. 

[Scout Finch]

I've been doing accounts payable for the regional division of a global charity for 13 years. It's my second non-profit job and you do it because you love it and not for money (although the benefits are great). The only area of finance I am at all interested in is A/P. I have no interest in accounting and just happened to end up in A/P over 20 years ago.

We've had two wonderful finance directors—both women--and our department has long been considered one of the best in the Western territory and we get high marks from the auditors. The last finance director left several months ago but since everyone in the department has been there for at least 10 years, we function smoothly and efficiently.

In September they hired a new finance director and within a month she had demoralized and destabilized the 11 of us. Without taking the time to even meet with the three supervisors or spend any time really getting to know the department, she decided that—THREE WEEKS after she started—to completely restructure the department, give everyone new job titles and descriptions (no raises, of course) and that we needed to be "outward looking."

This all went down at our very first meeting where she told us how poorly she thought we were doing our jobs and we don't care. This is based on things such as everyone in the department not knowing what a particular shelter's petty cash is used for. There are over 30 different field offices with numerous petty cashes and each one has a specific A/P clerk assigned to it, so, no, we can’t all know every office inside and out.

Lady, our only job is providing customer service all day long to the particular field offices that are split up between four A/P clerks. I have 13 years of thank yous and kudos about what an incredible, quick job I do getting things like checks to them from the six offices/shelters/rec centers, etc. that I specifically handle.

Also, A/P and A/R are now supposed to learn each other's jobs and then seven people should just be able to interchangeably work on over 30 different field offices, shelters, etc. Mind you, each office has its unique quirks but she thinks just writing up some notes that everyone can refer to is sufficient. Never mind the personal relationships I've built up specifically with my six offices over several years, who HATE when I go on vacation because the other three A/P clerks don't have the same level of quality I do.

She thinks our busiest time is only in December, however, it actually starts NOW and runs until the end of January. But, since she refuses to listen to any of who have experience, we have to learn each other's jobs by the end of November. Not sure when I'll have time to learn A/R.

We've always had a more flexible work schedule and some us preferred to stay until 6:00 because we got more done when it was quieter. Nope. Now we all have to either leave at 4:30 or 5:00, and now have to have permission from a supervisor (even though she's destabilized those roles) to stay after 5:00. She thinks we've all been working in "silos" and need to all be there together at the same time. The single mom with a daughter she had to drop off at school but was always there by 9:00 was told she'd had to find/pay someone to do it and had to be there by 8:00. Another person had to get special permission to arrive "between 8:30 and 8:45" for a similar reason.

She is so completely tone deaf and instead of taking time to observe how we operate and then perhaps waiting until February to make smaller changes, she throws us immediately into utter chaos. It's also wreaking havoc with our security controls because A/R people can no longer set up new vendors for us because, gee, they can enter invoices and run checks too. So now we're scrambling to remember who can now approve ACHs and then initiate them, because that has to remain separate. My immediate supervisor—the aforementioned single mom--quit three weeks into the new regime.

I've been needing a change for some time but I tend towards complacency and just figuring, oh, I'll get used to it. However, after the very first meeting I drafted a letter of resignation. My exiting supervisor, made me promise I wouldn't leave until I find something else, as have family and friends.

So I started job hunting a few weeks ago and had begun meeting with a few of the placement agencies who were contacting me. Then, on the 17th she had a second meeting—over two and a half hours—to go over year-end closing which we've been doing for years and didn't really need to have a drawn-out postmortem of what worked and what were "hair-pullers." Then, we broke into groups to discuss the whole security control changes and who did what and couldn't now. I had a terrible backache for most of that day.

The next day I ended up in severe abdominal pain in the afternoon and a CT scan showed I had diverticulitis. I took the remaining work week off but when it wasn't any better four days later I went back to the ER and ended up being hospitalized last week with what was now peritonitis. I went back to work this week but realized after Monday that it was still too difficult to work a full day, especially with a drainage tube sticking out of my left butt cheek. I stayed home yesterday and came back to an email this morning from Finance Director from Hell about how maybe I shouldn't have tried to come back so soon, because she noted I was "late" two mornings this week. You know why I was late Monday, lady? Because I had to frantically find a restroom during my drive to work, thanks to the heavy antibiotics in my system. I also had to drain and flush the tube each morning (I was untethered this afternoon, yay!).

I wanted more than anything to have been actively interviewing last week and this week but because of the health crisis I couldn't. Meanwhile, the very LAST thing my recovery needs right now is the dread and stress I feel there. There's still a second abscess but it's too difficult to reach so I have to stay on antibiotics for another two weeks and am not even sure if my stomachache in the last 48 hours is because of the medication or stress at work. I had hoped to have a date for my last day by now and I just feel so disheartened. I just want to say, "fuck it, I'm out of here in two weeks," but I don’t even have all the rent money due to being out sick. My tolerance level for her crap is zero and I'm afraid I'll end up getting fired for being insubordinate by mouthing off. 

Sorry for the novel.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Scout Finch