S11.E10: Week 9

[MsPH]

I admittedly am bothered by all of the duck lips posts that have been on these threads, however because I find them mean spirited and I just feel that she can't really change her lips (and shouldn't try to...they are the lips she was given).  

 

Actually they aren't the lips she was given. There's an old parody music video of her on Youtube and she has no upper lip to speak of, so they are as fake as they look. I think she looked better without them, but to each their own I guess.  

[Bugs Meany]

I admittedly am bothered by all of the duck lips posts that have been on these threads, however because I find them mean spirited and I just feel that she can't really change her lips (and shouldn't try to...they are the lips she was given).  

 

The lips she was given...by a dermatologist in-between seasons. They totally didn't look like that on The Bachelor.

[alexa]

Oh, thanks for clarifying. I had no idea :-)  That changes everything!  

[MakeMeLaugh]

I think Kaitlyn is very tiny over all and her teeth just look big proportionately as a result (my daughter's mouth is like this but not as disportionate). Not sure if the duckiness is from surgery--I would say no as it looks to me like she sticks her lips out on purpose both to make her upper lip look bigger and to look cute in her eyes (it is a pretty common "face" like sucking in one's cheeks). I do like quacking when she does it during the show but her appearance is not what bothers me about her anyway.

Edited July 16, 2015 by MakeMeLaugh

[leighdear]

I see "resting duck face" as completely different from "deliberate duck face".   Kaitlyn's is not courtesy of Mother Nature and genetics.  It's her jam.

Edited July 16, 2015 by leighdear

[backformore]

On TB, I'm always very skeptical when they cut TH with voice overs back and forth. I can't remember which former participant criticized that as very deceptive, but its the easiest way to piece together things out of context and seems very dishonest. If you're showing a TH, I think we can watch and listen patiently as we see them say 3 or 4 consecutive sentences. Inserting their words and voice over some random picture really raises my suspicions. And this show does it routinely.

 

I really don't think it was like this in the beginning, but maybe I should watch the old one (and yes, I actually have the dvd of Aaron Burges--his name I think?--although I missed the actual season. It might be interesting, even though its so abridged, to see how different this show was "then" and "now".  I have a feeling the answer will be "very").

I think this season there have been a lot of conversations that look faked.  Sometimes it's in the camera work, where they show two people having a conversation, and the camera angle goes back and forth between the two.  Then, once in a while, one person is talking while NOT shown, and the sound is a little "off".  I wish I could give examples, I can't without viewing it again. 

There have also been times when it seems like the people are acting, not having a real conversation - possibly re-enacting an earlier conversation.  Especially when it's between the guys, and they're all sitting around, the way they take turns talking, not stepping on each other's "lines", and acting all sincere -  I'm reminded of community theater. 

Maybe, it's me being jaded and skeptical because of what I've read about the show.  But the overall production seems like a different show this season.

[Padma]

I thought the other guys came off ridiculously petty last season too. They got mad at him for things like comforting Andi after the Eric confrontation or talking about his feelings for her too much, which somehow meant that he had some ulterior motive (uhh...?). Funnily enough the guys accusing him of ulterior motives went on to be on BIP or The Bachelor, so yeah. And every time he was confronted by them he just stayed calm and rational and perfectly nice. Even when Cody got upset about some sarcastic comment he made, he just apologized for hurting his feelings and they just would NOT let it go! It's like they were desperately trying to pick a fight with Nick and he had no interest in humouring them. I kind of loved him for that.

 

Yeah, he has a habit of talking too much and not knowing when to shut up, so I can see why he'd rub some people the wrong way, but I don't think that makes him a bad guy or justifies treating him like dirt. His greatest offense during the season seemed to be acting sulky on the mime date, which I probably would have too, since it would be my worst nightmare. Josh practically threw a fit about the lie detector date and no one called him a bad sport. It's not like the lead even plans the dates so his reaction was OTT. The "sex reveal" at ATFR was the last nail in Nick's coffin, but I honestly don't think it was preplanned or some calculated revenge move. The guy was shaking for heaven's sake, he was that emotional. I'm sure we've all said some stupid stuff while emotional, just not on live TV. He's been nothing but gracious towards everyone involved since, which I think says a lot about his character.

 

And I think it says a lot about Shawn's character that he thinks he can form an opinion of someone without even trying to get to know them, then destroy their character for 20 minutes without letting them get a word in and then think he's "won". 'Delusional' comes to mind.

Thanks! You said perfectly what I felt about Nick on Andi's show (although I have to add that I felt he was very much in love with her and I thought she treated him very badly--especially after talking with his family, esp. after he begged her not to have sex unless it really meant commitment to her, and esp after her self-righteous rant to JP. But I've said that before, lol. And I kind of hate Andi, although I think she was a much better b-ette than Kaitlyn because she had fun and could make conversation).

 

ITA about Nick. I think he's patient when confronted and I was impressed that he seemed to work through the problems with the group on Andi's show and here and figure out how to get along with everyone (and mixing 24/7 with a "random group of guys" isn't the easiest thing in the world for men who are more intellectual or introverted or not jock-ready (like Josh)--note Ian re: fart jokes.) I could see some guys might be put off or think he's judging them but overall he took the criticism and worked through it.

 

I saw him -trying- to do the same with Shawn, many times. The way Shawn confronted him and wouldn't let him talk was bad enough but when Nick showed up, quite reasonable, trying to work it out, Shawn just looked like a rude bully the way he talked over him and wouldn't hear anything other than what he wanted to believe.

 

Who would want a relationship with a man like that? You know when you have a disagreement (on everything from how to spend money to disciplining the children to where the couch should go), that's exactly the way he's going to be. Stubbornness, bullying, not listening and general aggressiveness are among my least liked traits. 

 

Then again, I'd have picked arrogant Ian over arrogant Shawn, so I really don't understand Kaitlyn's taste. (Okay, I think it's "sex" and that's it, but maybe she'll surprise me and come up with some other reasons). 

[NikSac]

On TB, I'm always very skeptical when they cut TH with voice overs back and forth. I can't remember which former participant criticized that as very deceptive, but its the easiest way to piece together things out of context and seems very dishonest. If you're showing a TH, I think we can watch and listen patiently as we see them say 3 or 4 consecutive sentences. Inserting their words and voice over some random picture really raises my suspicions. And this show does it routinely.

 

I know Sharleen has mentioned it, although others may have too. I am embarrassed to admit I never noticed it before I saw it on Sharleen's blog. They use the same quotes over-and-over-and-over again, and if you watch closely sometimes what's being said doesn't even match with their mouths. I've wondered if anyone who lip-reads but also possibly reads the closed captioning gets really confused. (for that matter, the people doing the closed captioning might too!)

[Mu Shu]

Kaitlyn has an overbite.   I think that's why when Cupcake was cocking his head at her before she dumped him on the cliffs, he was peering at her so intently.   Not that I'd let a dentist with Gary Busey's dentures have a go at my overbite, mind you.   I'm  pretty sure I make the same faces as she does.   It's an overbite thing. 

[NikSac]

For me, part of the reason this season has been so unmemorable is that, whether it's Kaitlyn, editing, or all of the best footage of decent conversations is on all that off-camera time, to invoke the words of Ian, it's all very "surface level."

The Bachelor(ette) has somewhat of a formula. In advance of hometowns, they talk about who she will meet on hometowns (if the family aspect hasn't been covered already). Going into Shawn's date, I had no idea anything about his family. We, as viewers, never got to hear about how close he is with his sisters, what the story with his mom is (he referred to his sisters acting like mothers to him, not "second mothers"), or what this great one love of his life was, in advance of the hometown. So I feel like I know nothing about why she would like Shawn. I'd trade some of that footage for the umpteenth bitch fight with Nick.

There have also been zero conversations about how their long distance relationships can work. This is straight from the Bachelor Playbook. Did no one pack it and bring it to Ireland?

I may be a total cynic and have watched way too many episodes of unReal, but during Ben's date and exit, all I could think was that some producer pulled him aside and said, "Ben, we both know you have no shot at this, but sell how much you are into her and make a classy exit, and you're the next Bachelor." When he opened up the "from the moment I stepped out of the limo" speech, I felt like I was at the Bachelor pageant. Smile and wave, Ben. Smile and wave.

 

I completely agree!  Especially when he was in the limo and said something about "um... Kaitlyn" like he forgot her name for a minute there. My only problem with Ben as the next Bachelor is that I like him so far and want it to stay that way.

[NikSac]

It was obvious to me that Ben would not be chosen, no matter how much Kaitlyn was saying that he would make a good husband.  <snip>

 

These dates had all the romance of meeting in an anonymous off-season hotel for a conference. 

 

I agree, I think Ben would make a great husband, at least from what we've seen. I think that's why she let him go. Just a theory. I don't think she's there to find a husband, I think she's there for the fun of it and perhaps for the "fighting" over her. I'm guessing it bummed her out a lot when so many guys weren't even interested in the fight and just left. Maybe that's actually why she feels sick all the time? Ben was nice enough (or perhaps in the running for Bachelor enough?) to fake it.

 

The "not hometowns" were terrible. I was only half kidding when I mentioned earlier how the continental breakfast in the lobby would've been awkward. I wonder if they did the filming in some conference room off to the side.  ETA: however, it's a good point that maybe the families said something along the lines of "fine just stay out of our houses!"

Edited July 16, 2015 by NikSac

[NikSac]

YES you mentioned Ben's leaving in a minivan vs a limo. How awkward was his crawling into it--nobody is graceful climbing into a minivan.

 

hehe I'm oddly relieved I wasn't the only one to notice that. I thought only the ones that left in disgrace or sobbing got the minivan, and the rose ceremony people got the limo. I was surprised when Ben got a minivan and wondered if it was some odd timing/editing thing.

[shok]

I know Sharleen has mentioned it, although others may have too. I am embarrassed to admit I never noticed it before I saw it on Sharleen's blog. They use the same quotes over-and-over-and-over again, and if you watch closely sometimes what's being said doesn't even match with their mouths. I've wondered if anyone who lip-reads but also possibly reads the closed captioning gets really confused. (for that matter, the people doing the closed captioning might too!)

 

Bachelor/ette has been (in)famous for a long time for their 'frankenbites', meaning they insert soundbites from wherever and whenever into 'conversations' that have nothing to do with what is actually being said. To see it being done you have to pay close attention and that's difficult to do on such a stupid show but if you can persevere, you will see that in half the 'conversations', the people involved are not actually shown talking. On another forum many seasons ago, we would always say that unless you can actually see their lips moving and forming the sounds you are hearing, don't believe what you hear because it's just the editing monkeys doing their thing.

 

And what too many people fail to remember, or even realize, is that you're just seeing infinitesimal bits of conversations...that hours upon hours are recorded and only a minute or two of is aired. It's why it annoys me to no end when posters make judgements about people's character and what they must be like in real life when what they've seen on the show is far removed from that real life. I don't have a lot of sympathy for the contestants because they've eagerly and willingly put themselves out there to be mocked and criticized but when the critiques move into cruelty and insults about them and their looks and their character and their families, that's taking it a step too far. It's a tv show meant, and manipulated, to entertain and it's very far from reality tv.

[Padma]

I noticed it too with Ben H! Awkward to crawl in like that, lol. I thought he was really struggling for words to sound disappointed and like he'd wanted something with Kaitlyn. I was hoping he'd turn down the FS or at least not have to stay until morning but I guess no one doe that anymore.

 

If your roommate was banging the lead, I don't think you'd really feel all that interested. Plus, would he really want to be "Eskimo brothers" with Shawn AND Nick? Ew!

[jumper sage]

This whole season is a MESS!  She is so immature and dare I say shallow?  When cupcake cried, "She's not ready", he was so right.  When you are ready for a committed relationship you don't flit from bed to bed.  She is a kid in the candy store and does not like it when anyone dare to question the all important Kaitlyn.  Of course she is keeping the two who are fighting over her.  DRAMA!

[JudyObscure]

And what too many people fail to remember, or even realize, is that you're just seeing infinitesimal bits of conversations...that hours upon hours are recorded and only a minute or two of is aired. It's why it annoys me to no end when posters make judgements about people's character and what they must be like in real life when what they've seen on the show is far removed from that real life.

 

And yet, that's all we have to go by.  If we're here to talk about the show and the contestants who volunteered to be on it, then those few edited minutes are what we are going to talk about, the alternative is to make up back stories out of whole cloth like so much fan fiction.

 

I could call everyone here cruel and judgmental for laughing at the drunk guy who got kicked off on the first night and suggest that, for all we know, he had just been to  his grandmother's funeral and flown straight to the show with no food or sleep for 48 hours and so of course he got drunk on one small glass of wine and was acting out his grief.  But if I did that, I think the judgmental person would be me, trying to make a lot of people feel mean for joking about a guy who got too drunk to climb out of the pool on a reality TV show.

[Mabinogia]

I tend to treat them all like characters. Yes, they are real people, and yes they are really saying and doing these things, but then the show takes what they have and weaves a character out of them. So, while I find some of these people vile on the show, I would give them the benefit of the doubt if I met them in person. Sure, I wouldn't really want to meet some of them at all, but I doubt they really care. They got their 15 minutes of fame and have to deal with being criticized by the nameless faceless masses for those 15 minutes. I honestly don't remember most of them by the time the next season comes along. lol

 

And honestly, I don't think I could sit through these two hours a week if I didn't know I could come here and read all these wonderfully snarky comments. This is not a show I would ever watch if not for this board and a few snarky friends at work.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Mabinogia

[bobbyjoe]

Is The Bachelorette contractually obligated to go to Utah every single season, even if nobody's actually from Utah?  It feels like we're always going to Utah on this show, but this season we don't apparently have a finalist from Utah, so it's like the producers were like "hey, you don't want to pick a finalist from Utah, Kaitlyn?  Well, guess what, sister, now you're all going to Utah!"***

 

Say, Bachelorette producers, I'm sure Utah is a fine and nice state and everything, but there are 49 others.   Can we maybe not go to Utah next season?

 

*** "...and if you complain even once about Utah, we'll turn this show around and go right back to Ireland for another eight weeks or so, missy."

[Armchair Critic]

 

They probably could have just had Kaitlyn meet the families in the parking lot of Costco, then they could all have gone in for a hot dog. We know Kaitlyn likes Costco.

 

And she likes wieners!

 

[/rimshot]

Edited July 18, 2015 by Armchair Critic

[CalamityBoPeep]

Is The Bachelorette contractually obligated to go to Utah every single season, even if nobody's actually from Utah?  It feels like we're always going to Utah on this show, but this season we don't apparently have a finalist from Utah, so it's like the producers were like "hey, you don't want to pick a finalist from Utah, Kaitlyn?  Well, guess what, sister, now you're all going to Utah!"***

 

Say, Bachelorette producers, I'm sure Utah is a fine and nice state and everything, but there are 49 others.   Can we maybe not go to Utah next season?

 

I wonder if there is some sort of favorable tax situation by filming in Utah vs. other states.  I've no idea, of course, and don't really care to research tax laws.  But that's my speculation. :-)

[himela]

Kaitlyn is not in that phase in her life yet that she is done with the bad boy guys that's why Ben was not for her - but I bet he'll be the next bachelor.

 

Damn how many brothers and sisters does Nick have? His mom must have been busy. Have they heard of pregnancy control methods?

 

Shawn's father started being critical about the show but then let him follow his heart. I'd be worried if my father would advise me to "follow my heart" regarding the person I'm gonna marry. Marriage needs logic as well as love.

 

She finds Nick "too deep"? Wtf? If I were a man hearing this I'd run to the hills away from this woman. Not serious enough alert here.

[Adeejay]

Hometown dates are interesting because you learn more about the people, where they grew up, the kinds of homes they grew up in (urban/rural, tacky/no so much, etc).  You see what kind of food they choose to make for you, how they sit around a table, if they offer you wine or beer or juice. It gives them flavor, romance.  A chance to see if you could really fit into the lifestyle of the family.

 

The hometown episode has always been my favorite.  We get a chance to see who lives or grew up in exquisitely, beautiful mansions - Kiptyn (Jillian), Chantal (Brad 2) and Sean (Emily), a modest home and a trailer park.  Without the hometown visits, Meredith wouldn't have met Lanny's "saintly" mom and Sean wouldn't have been introduced to Desiree's "interesting" brother.  It's always fun to watch the bitter, lesser attractive sister talk smack to and about her more attractive sibling.  I hope this season was an aberration.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Adeejay

[lonestar]

 

She finds Nick "too deep"? Wtf? If I were a man hearing this I'd run to the hills away from this woman. Not serious enough alert here.

Ian got it, and fled.

[leighdear]

 

It's always fun to watch the bitter, lesser attractive sister talk smack to and about her more attractive sibling.

I always consider Juan Pablo's Clare to have the gold standard in a bitchy sister.  I think she had 3 or 4 of them total, but only one seriously exceeded all expectations for suspicious and snarkiness.  Of course, hindsight shows she had good reason!

[Former Nun]

Ian got it, and fled.

 

 

Yeah...too bad he had to do it in such an asshole-y fashion.  Oops...too bad he couldn't have been more diplomatic.

[himela]

Kaitlyn proves to be what we thought of her in the previous season; a shallow, superficial chic who only wants to have fun, regardless her "I take finding a husband very seriously". Yeah right, Juan Pablo was saying that too cause this is the line the producers want the leads to follow. Nobody is allowed to say "I'm here to become a bachelor member so I hook up with guys / girls more easily". Come on Kaitlyn, your true colors can't hide forever.

[Kareem]

This season was a bit of a blur to me, with a sea of brown hairs I could barely tell apart - bunch of Bens, bunch of J names, too much airtime/creepy Nick and too much airtime/stalker Shaun. Still incredible to me that she chose those two lemons in the Garden of Love as her final two. Strange season...

[Mu Shu]

I'm not complaining about the time they spent in Ireland, but Utah seems pretty WTF?   I'm sure it's nice, but I take it's not this huge destination.   Then again,  I don't like the tropical islands, since there really isn't anything to do on them.    I'll take Ireland in a heartbeat over a tropical, canned resort.    Though I suppose Ireland can be canned, especially in an 'ancient", 18th (19th?) century castle. 

 

Once you've done Des Moines,  the rest of the world seems so much less scintillating.    Though I will say Des Moines looked very clean and prosperous.