S02.E04: Down Will Come

[iMonrey]

Oh, dear. For weeks I have been defending Vince Vaughn and now, alas, I see what everyone else is seeing. That scene where he's trying to shake down the club owner (or whatever the hell was going on  . . . all his scenes are the same) - he was positively robotic. It was awful. 

 

I'm one of the few people in the world who actually liked the remake of Psycho and thought Vaughn did himself proud stepping into some mighty big shoes on that film, so I know he's got some acting chops. But he's just utterly lost here and it shows. I still think the writing is the main problem but Vaughn doesn't seem to know what to do with the role and doesn't seem to be getting any direction. I still think McConaughey and Harrelson managed to disguise weak writing with showy gimmicks whereas Vaughn is unable to bring anything to the table that isn't in the script.

 

And yeah, the whole self-loathing closet case is a story that's about 20 years too old. For this to be the least bit compelling we need some kind of background on Paul that would explain his struggle. Super religious parents? Raised in Arkansas? We got nothin'. It's not the least bit interesting to follow his "discovery" in real time without perspective.

 

This may be the first time I've ever heard James Frain (try to) use an American accent and it isn't coming off very well.

[ShannaB]

.I was a bit mesmerized by S1 of TD but I don't think I would ever watch it again.  I was into Rust's/MMC speeches but if I had to listen to them again I would definitely jump off the roof. If I didn't have 'close caption' on, I would have been dead in the water trying to understand some of the stuff that was mumbled out of MMc's mouth.  The first Season also had the 'Yellow King' which gave the Season an almost mystical feel while we were seeing all the character baggage.  S2 does not have a 'Yellow King' or great scenic shots and as a result we are getting slammed with the baggage. It's almost too dark and I can understand why some viewers are not happy.  There's a crime here and a cover-up, so it's just a matter of the 3 leads hurdling over their individual baggage, coming together and solving the case and becoming true detectives.  It's been too slow and convoluted thus far IMHO.

 

Kudos to Rachel McA.  I think she is doing a great job with the material.  I have never seen her in a role like this so I am pleasantly surprised.  Colin F. is simply great and I think TK is doing decently with the material he has been given.  I like VV but I am not feeling his Frank at all.  I don't know if it's him or the director but Frank is all kinds of blah and I don't picture gangsters being that blah.  When I think of S1 TD I tent to think of FARGO (which I would watch again in a heartbeat) and Billy Bob Thornton's Lorne Malvo. What a deliciously chilling character.  I wonder what Frank would be like if someone like BBT played him.  Dear NP, please think about BBT if you get a S3.

 

I have to laugh with all the posts saying the bad guys are the Mayor and James Frain's Lieutenant Burris.  Of course it's James Frain.  It's ALWAYS James Frain LOL.

[teddysmom]

Isn't it true that Woody Harrelson improvised much of his humorous dialogue?  I gave him much credit in the first season but now seeing what Nic's dialogue is like without someone creative like that mixing things up, I appreciate (and miss) him that much more.

 

I've gotten the feeling that VV has tried to be a little more sarcastic, but maybe he isn't as sure of his dramatic acting skills as Woody is.  

[Sarah D. Bunting]

I think that'll be my piece next week. "Predicted: It's James Frain (Again)"

[DEM]

Just when I was thinking about how dated Paul's story feels, the music came up, and it was a song from 1969. So the message is, "it's a story as old as time," I guess?  I agree with others who would like some insight into WHY Paul is so repressed, given how many aspects of the character work against such a reaction.  The problem with Paul's story is that he has no one to talk to, so we as an audience are deprived of a window into his thinking. The story rests entirely on Taylor Kitsch's ability to make sad and tortured faces.

 

Frank's story kind of gets worse every week. Now I have to watch him scurry around and strong arm people.  I'm not sure why I should care about him triumphantly reclaiming his place as a criminal kingpin. I.e., why should I be rooting for him one bit -- especially given that his main purpose when it comes to the DETECTIVE story (which is why I tuned in to a program called True DETECTIVE) is to sidetrack the investigation.  Moreover, with half the people he's strong-armed, I can't figure out why they're giving in. Frank has an army of 2: himself and pony-tailed guy (RIP Stan).  Sorry, but his 'presence' ain't all that.

[shirazplease]

 

I don't question any of that... my issue is why they crossed this line from being street thugs to Columbine/Sandy Hook style murders who kill for the sake of killing.

 

Gang bangers kill because someone looks at them wrong, someone walks or drives on their street that shouldn't, etc....I didn't find the gun fight hard to believe.  It makes more sense to me that a person immersed in that violent culture (especially if it's imported from El Salvadore or somewhere, where the gangs really do rule the neighborhoods to the exclusion of authority of any kind) would love to go out in that kind of blaze of glory rather than go to jail, be deported, etc....It boggles my mind a lot more that a suburban kid would commit mass murder.

[Matt K]

I'm one of the few people in the world who actually liked the remake of Psycho and thought Vaughn did himself proud stepping into some mighty big shoes on that film, so I know he's got some acting chops. But he's just utterly lost here and it shows. I still think the writing is the main problem but Vaughn doesn't seem to know what to do with the role and doesn't seem to be getting any direction. I still think McConaughey and Harrelson managed to disguise weak writing with showy gimmicks whereas Vaughn is unable to bring anything to the table that isn't in the script.

 

And yeah, the whole self-loathing closet case is a story that's about 20 years too old. For this to be the least bit compelling we need some kind of background on Paul that would explain his struggle. Super religious parents? Raised in Arkansas? We got nothin'. It's not the least bit interesting to follow his "discovery" in real time without perspective.

It makes me think of another show I just binged watched, Shameless.  On that (and possible spoilers for content about 4 years old) we got a gay character who knew he was gay but didn't want to accept it due to the environment he was in.  But seeing as how the entire series focuses on that environment the storyline works pretty well.  You're right, here we need something to explain why he's this way.  

 

And that's a huge part of the problem with this season.  We get hints and dialogue that flirts around these character's issues but without delving into them.  I still don't have any sort of handle on McAdam's character despite scenes with her dad, sister, boyfriend, etc.  Same with pretty much everyone else.   Only Ferrell's character works and that's because his is a fairly simplistic character and the only one where everything is pretty much presented front and center.   

[teddysmom]

I agree with others who would like some insight into WHY Paul is so repressed,

 

I think we may get that next week.  TK said in an interview that Epi 4 & 5 were really favorites of his as far as how Paul's character is delved into. 

 

I understand the confusion over Frank's ability to strong arm people, but he didn't have any problems taking out that guy at the club and removing his grill, while the others stood and let it happen, instead of stopping Frank. So maybe people are afraid of him. 

[DarkRaichu]

I understand the confusion over Frank's ability to strong arm people, but he didn't have any problems taking out that guy at the club and removing his grill, while the others stood and let it happen, instead of stopping Frank. So maybe people are afraid of him. 

 

Gangsta Frank was cold enough to frame a rival gangster with rape, have a cop killed the guy, AND make the cop owe him a forever debt. 

 

As for VV as Frank, I am of 2 minds.  His robotic acting might be intentional to show how bored and uninterested Frank was in going back to his old "business ventures".  He would not have gone back had he not had to do it.  The problem was, his demeanor in episode 1 (content Frank) was not that different than bored Frank.  Either way, Frank and his crew was the most boring part of the show

[TVHappy9463]

that was some good TV! I stopped comparing this to season one, and started valuing this on it's own merits and I see the show in a whole new light. Colin and Rachel are great together, I would like to see them in other projects.  I think Taylor is doing pretty good, given the material he has been given.  The shoot out was was tight, the editing in both picture and sound were really effective, especially the scene where Colin and Taylor were running parallel to the SUV.  The final scene, when they three of them are looking at each other and the camera is panning in a circle was very powerful, it called back to the scene at the end of episode one when they are all sizing each other up at the murder scene. Now they are looking at each other in a completely different light, no longer advisories, but all F-ed over together. I hope Ray ( Collin) kills Frank (Vince) by the end of the season.  

[shirazplease]

 

Gangsta Frank was cold enough to frame a rival gangster with rape, have a cop killed the guy, AND make the cop owe him a forever debt.

 

Has this been established for certain?  I must have missed it.

[Constantinople]

It still doesn't make much sense... I mean these guys handlers just call them up and say "Guess what boys? A bunch of cops are coming your way. So we want you to take them out and while you're at it kill everyone and everything in your path for good measure. Oh and you're probably getting killed in the process, so you know, appreciate the hard work and nice knowin' ya!"

These guys should have some motivation of their own aside from following orders. That may come to light in coming episodes but right now the level of violence they reigned down felt unrealistic and gratuitous.

 

Deleted scene from last night's episode

 

[DarkRaichu]

Has this been established for certain?  I must have missed it.

 

Someone (here in the forum) suggested the framing part, but the killing was strongly implied by the show. It was not a kill, Ray would not need to owe Frank a forever debt.

Edited July 13, 2015 by DarkRaichu

[represent]

I love this season because of the actors. The promo clips leading up to this season, I knew I would be tuning in, because I just like VV and McAdams. When I saw her in the promos I was like, oh, this is different, I've never seen her in a role like this.

Last season, I would flip the channel back and forth while trying to watch. I really like WH so I tuned in on and off, but I did not find the writing nor the acting especially by MM to be so great, please. When you're it in HW, your it, that's all there is to it and MM has been "It". He's simply not that great IMO, he's not horrible or anything, but, no, there's no great acting skills going on there IMO. Meanwhile there have been more times that I've stopped to take a longer notice at what CF, RM and VV were doing on screen that MM. I guess it also comes down to preference. So, I am a viewer who is watching and making no specific comparisons between the two seasons because season one never really grabbed me. It was not must see tv for me while this season is, go figure.

[Hobo.PassingThru]

 

A shoot out in broad daylights with automatic weapons and all those casualties? Feds would be investigating. This would be global news.

Well, if it isn't big news then that would be inconsistent with what we've seen so far. Obviously, there is media attention placed on the Paul character. So, his involvement would make the news even "bigger".

 

That brings up a weird possibility though. What if that war event they keep referencing was similar to what happened with that shooting? Obviously, there was a real event that involved a private soldier firm and killing innocents. Not to say that is what happened here but if the war scandal was a travesty then this street shooting is even moreso "made for tv news".

[iMonrey]

 

His robotic acting might be intentional to show how bored and uninterested Frank was in going back to his old "business ventures".  He would not have gone back had he not had to do it.  The problem was, his demeanor in episode 1 (content Frank) was not that different than bored Frank.  Either way, Frank and his crew was the most boring part of the show

 

I've considered that this may be a deliberate acting choice on Vince Vaughn's part, but it doesn't really matter because it isn't working. Let's say we had another actor in the role who was more - charistmatic? colorful? - there might be fewer complaints because the actor might overshadow the lack of depth and substance in the character's scenes. But wouldn't that just be a distraction, deflecting the weak writing? At best Vaughn is doing a good job showing us how lousy the writing for his character really is.

[Ellaria]

VV and wife are like they are on another show.  Her line delivery is slow, it seems to me that she either playing the character as drunk or drugged most of the time but then she seems sharp, suddenly, at the club.

 

Every time we get a scene of Frank and the Mrs, I zone out. Neither can handle the dialogue. I keep waiting for something interesting to actually happen between the two of them...and nothing. We are half-way thru the show and this plot line is dying. If the Mrs is "playing" Frank behind his back, I would like to get an actual clue rather than trying to surmise it in online discussions. Maybe its the direction but nothing between VV and KR is working.

 

There are a lot of random characters hanging around in this story (some sinister; others just odd): Chessani, his idiot son, Dr. Rick, Ani's dad, Lt. Burris, the state guys, Frank's henchmen, the Russian in Frank's casino, Ani's partner, etc. Not all will fit into the murder that's at the center of the story so why are they there? The Russian keeps popping in without a clear purpose. Ani's dad seems to know everyone and just happens to have a photo album of these random characters at a beach party.

 

There are so many distractions - intended or not - in this story that I don't know what to focus on. 

[Quilt Fairy]

I can't watch Taylor Kitsch anymore without imagining him in the VV role. And doing a better job. Thanks a lot, Sarah. ;)

 

And no one is ever going to buy anything from Frank again: "Sold it to you? Did you think I sold you this place? No, no, no, pally, I didn't sell it to you. You bought, like, a partnership. You know, a percentage. My boys will start collecting on Monday. Oh, and mow the fucking lawn. I don't want one of those kids bit by a snake."

Edited July 13, 2015 by Quilt Fairy

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Did they say what operation the wife had, that she might not be able to have kids? Soooo did she get the operation up with Rick Springfield too? I go back and forth with if she's related to the Caspere death.

My assumption from the context of the discussion was that the operation was an abortion. Usually on TV you are punished for having one by becoming unable to conceive.

Agreed. I also assumed the same from the context of the conversation and the dominant narrative on TV shows that past abortions --> trouble conceiving (despite the fact that "Generally, abortion isn't thought to cause fertility issues or complications in subsequent pregnancies," according to the Mayo Clinic http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/getting-pregnant/expert-answers/abortion/faq-20058551). I really wish TV writers would stop with that one. Edited July 13, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

So did anyone figure out what it means that Frank's huge aura was green & black? (besides that he's a mood ring )

Edited July 13, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Penman61]

If by "operation," Frank's wife was referring to an abortion, that's about sixteen ways regressive and annoying, not to mention medically bullshit.  I just assumed she meant some actual "operation."  

 

Good lord, this show might be worse than I thought: Abortions make you barren, teh Gay makes you closeted.  I guess we're partying like it's 1979.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Penman61

[Hobo.PassingThru]

Since they didn't come right out and say 'abortion,' perhaps it is something else. I mean, it is HBO. It's not the Disney Channel.

[Muffyn]

I have to agree, it's almost getting to the point of parody. Too bad SNL isn't on right now. I can see a skit where every crucial scene the singer turns up. Ani Ray and Paul are standing in the street after the shoot out, the singer is there on her stool next to the bus. Frank and his wife are arguing about him getting back into crime and the IVF, the singer is there.  But she also has to be wearing a "Who the Fuck is Stan?" teeshirt. 

 

Now that's a show I would watch!  

 

My assumption from the context of the discussion was that the operation was an abortion.  Usually on TV you are punished for having one by becoming unable to conceive.  

That's actually progress of a sort.  For a long time, if a woman had an abortion, she would die within a few episodes.  It could not go unpunished.  

 

Dammit!  I miss Stan. 

[sjankis630]

 

P.S.  Isn't what we're watching right now taking place in the past?  For some reason I got the sense from the show's previews weeks ago that we'd be jumping ahead in time at some point.

 

This is  an interesting point. How far in the past is the question? The reason I ask is a stupid one. When Ray was talking to his superiors about what was happening on the case, the head cop had the oldest smallest bulky computer monitor that looked like it had been out of date in the late 90s. I thought to myself for a split second if they were going for several years ago ( I am way off on this I know but it did stick out for me) 

I mean what agency is still using old CRT computer monitors for work? I had an old CRT type tv to give away 2 years ago and no one would take it (schools etc) because they already went flat screen. Also not to mention the disposal problems those things are when it comes time to get rid of them.

 

The only problem I have with the bald head of the gang being the killer is he doesn't strike me as the type.

I see him offing Caspere the following way. He would pick up Caspere off the street; shoot him in the head; and then dump his body in a swamp or throw him through a woodchipper.

I cannot see crazy bald guy the way this show would have me believe.

He is part of some crazy sex cult (wears bird mask); he tortures Caspere making sure to mutilate him in the most painful ways possible; and then goes through the trouble of leaving his body way out sitting just so with his wallet out and everything for the police to discover. It just doesn't make sense.

I am not saying he was not involved with the people who did kill Caspere, but it just doesn't fit the shoot up cops, innnocents et al, and then go out in a blaze of glory.

[tennisgurl]

 

Dammit!  I miss Stan.

Stan will live on in our hearts, and our minds. 

 

This episode was kind of a continuation of the themes of the season. I like the stories with RM and CF, and I generally like Paul, even though I am REALLY going to need some context as to why he is so messed up about being gay. He would have been a more interesting character if he was just an out, gay man who was tortured over his military history or something. TK is doing good stuff though.

 

I dug the hell out of the shoot out. 

 

Frank and his wife continue to be on another show, until he meets up with CF in the Saddest Bar in the World. 

 

Stan was holding this whole show together!

Edited July 14, 2015 by tennisgurl

[Matt K]

I just want go add that I absolutely dislike the opening song for the show. For the first episode I thought I had tuned into Key & Peele. It starts me off in the wrong mindset from the start.

[Hobo.PassingThru]

 

I absolutely dislike the opening song for the show.

Same here for almost the exact reasons you give.

[WaltersHair]

I think I understand the itty bitty knife scene better. Ani's sister said "All you took was her (mother's) knife." Is it the same knife?

[kieyra]

P. S.  Who the fuck casts VV and doesn't give his character even a scintilla of humor?

Same guy who casts James Frain and makes him pretend to be American.

We are all being trolled.

[cpcathy]

Who's James Frain? Does he know Stan?

[DEM]

James Frain is the slender, dark-haired guy who plays Lt Burris from the Vinci PD (Ray's place of employment).

[kieyra]

James Frain is the kind of British character actor who, if he turns up on a crime procedural, most definitely committed the murder. He's also had some great meatier roles (Cromwell in The Tudors; an insane vampire in S3 of True Blood), but he is a quintessential British character actor and making him do a weird Eddie-Izzard-esque "Amurican" accent is just mean to everyone involved.

[njmama]

Did they say what operation the wife had, that she might not be able to have kids? Soooo did she get the operation up with Rick Springfield too? I go back and forth with if she's related to the Caspere death.

It must've been a d&c or abortion. Frank said to her that she's been pregnant before. She didn't stay pregnant so could've been a miscarriage which would still require surgery or she terminated it. Depending on who performed the surgery may have botched it and she's now having complications.

[TudorQueen]

Frain isn't always a villain. He was very sympathetic as Kim Raver's ex-husband on "24". But after this week's episode I'm losing hope that he'll turn out to be a good guy. Even if he isn't part of the murder, he's in something up to his armpits.

[kieyra]

Frain isn't always a villain. He was very sympathetic as Kim Raver's ex-husband on "24". But after this week's episode I'm losing hope that he'll turn out to be a good guy. Even if he isn't part of the murder, he's in something up to his armpits.

(O/T but he ruined me for Rylance in Wolf Hall. I am a huge Frain fan and if he was *nailing* the Murican accent I wouldn't even be snarking about it. I blame the casting regardless.)

[Guest]

This is an interesting point. How far in the past is the question? The reason I ask is a stupid one. When Ray was talking to his superiors about what was happening on the case, the head cop had the oldest smallest bulky computer monitor that looked like it had been out of date in the late 90s.

True, but Ray's driving a new Charger so ... there's that.

I think Ani's father is in on the whole thing. Was this the episode where he has pictures of all those guys at his hippie house? (I can't tell one dull episode apart from the next.) Convenient. Plus, the missing girl who went to work at "parties" or whatever they called it. Then there's the sister who works in porn, too.

The only thing that really keeps my attention on this show is Rachel McAdams' low-rise jeans. As someone who canNOT wear mid- or high-rise jeans, and since those are the only kind sold anymore, I seriously covet her wardrobe. And question my rationale for continuing to watch a show where the most interesting thing about it is an inanimate object.

[Cardie]

The main male characters seem convinced that if you can't procreate, you aren't a real man. Paul acts like getting someone pregnant is his Get Out of Gay-Jail card and now he can just put his down payment on the heteronormative picket fence and bungalow. And yet their own biological fathers and all the other fathers in the show are monsters.

[shapeshifter]

It must've been a d&c or abortion. Frank said to her that she's been pregnant before. She didn't stay pregnant so could've been a miscarriage which would still require surgery or she terminated it. Depending on who performed the surgery may have botched it and she's now having complications.

Could've been an ectopic pregnancy--maybe even caused by scarring from PID from VD--but I agree with the spirit of Sarah Bunting's critique of the dialogue, in that it left us all wondering if it was supposed to be a euphemism for an abortion, and, if so, are we in a time warp? Because if we are in a time warp, what's up with the e-cigarettes?

[kieyra]

Could've been an ectopic pregnancy--maybe even caused by scarring from PID from VD--but I agree with the spirit of Sarah Bunting's critique of the dialogue, in that it left us all wondering if it was supposed to be a euphemism for an abortion, and, if so, are we in a time warp? Because if we are in a time warp, what's up with the e-cigarettes?

If the multiple e-cig snarks are not Lottapizza inserting his own pet peeve into the dialogue a la Sorkin, I will eat my own hat, whatever that even means.

[Quilt Fairy]

James Frain is the kind of British character actor who, if he turns up on a crime procedural, most definitely committed the murder. He's also had some great meatier roles (Cromwell in The Tudors; an insane vampire in S3 of True Blood), but he is a quintessential British character actor and making him do a weird Eddie-Izzard-esque "Amurican" accent is just mean to everyone involved.

Why didn't they just get Stan?

[Alapaki]

I still think the writing is the main problem but Vaughn doesn't seem to know what to do with the role and doesn't seem to be getting any direction. I still think McConaughey and Harrelson managed to disguise weak writing with showy gimmicks whereas Vaughn is unable to bring anything to the table that isn't in the script.

 

 

I'm not sure if any actor could deliver some of this awful dialogue and pull it off.  Maybe Christopher Walken?  But I'm 100% sure that Vince Vaughn clearly isn't the one to do it.  

 

I just wonder if the producers ever realized this fact, or if they're so oblivious to the own sub-mediocre writing?

[Penman61]

We're in the present.  In addition to the e-cigs and Ray's car:

 

- The foreclosure notice delivered in E1 was dated October 2015

 

- A huge billboard for the late 2014 movie American Sniper figured prominently in a nighttime scene with Paul (E3 I think).

Edited July 14, 2015 by Penman61

[Hobo.PassingThru]

I'm never ecstatic when I don't see what others say they see.

 

The set-up in the Not-So-OK Corral: I did not see that meeting resulting in a set up for the three primary characters. Nor did I see the commanding officers (?) giving Ray the OK to kill either or both Ani and Paul. There was nothing there. If anything it was a "do what you have to do" type of gesture; translated, be safe, don't be stupid.

 

There was the angle of Frank finding out and sharing that the crooks who may have killed Caspar were the men to hunt down. But, did Frank's men find and whack them? No. So, did Frank set up the three cops to be killed? Not that I saw. I truly saw Frank as wanting to locate who might have taken his money, which he is convinced was on Caspar's person.[but, even Frank said that someone pawning Caspar's belongings That He Had On HIm would not have his money]

 

I find that hard to believe that 3-7 million was on Caspar's person. [And, if it was then why would those gang members still be laying low in a warehouse making drugs (so we should assume unless they just had explosives in their place?)] Maybe it was in one of Caspar's two houses/hangouts but even that seems unlikely because it seemed like nothing was cracked (a safe) or reported as something that was broken into and mystery items were taken. So, why would Caspar still have the money on or with him? He'd stash that somewhere [else], if anything.

 

Now, I don't think this will evolve or devolve into It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World where everyone looks for [the buried money underneath] the Giant V shaped trees. (V for Vinci)

 

[Perhaps it was way too convenient that the one cop was tipped off about the location of those gang members. But, that's the only real link to it being a conspiracy against the three, main cops; and, now the partner cop is dead, so it is just another mystery, I guess]

 

So, even if the three main cops are being beaten down by their superiors--with demotions, suspensions and warnings, I don't see how they were so hot on the trail that their superiors- or the mayor-were going to eliminate them [for knowing too much. How close are they to anything?]

 

Now, I obviously, something happened with Ray and that Crow mask wearing bungalow shooting. But, since then, have attempts been made to threaten them? Ani got disciplinary action, yes. And, Paul seems to be in deep undercover (somehow, given he's a part of a celebrity scandal). I don't get that.

 

The EPA thing. Man alive. It would have been better to have someone else mention the pollution angle, too. I know that Ray (in a voice over?) talked about how messed up the town was in terms of being contaminated. And, Frank and his cronies have hinted around to it, too. But, having an extra person be the authoritative voice seemed like a bit much. Maybe if someone had done detective work to find out instead of just interviewing some expert, it would have been less convoluted.

 

Maybe.

 

Okay. So, they killed the guy who might know something. While I can see that as being advantageous for someone still alive who is trying to cover his/her tracks, what I can't see is how what seems to be a gang member who was probably running a drug lab (thanks for the "education", Breaking Bad) would be a go-to guy to eliminate a big name guy, especially given the way he was tortured and killed. It seems like a more specialized type of "job," if you will. And, if it wasn't Frank's men or the Mayor's guys then, like the firefight that went way out of control, was it more of a specialist, military type of extraction? Again, there are parallels with certain atrocities.

 

Let's say the "mexican" mob had something to do with it, like Frank assumed they had something to do with Ray's killing. Then maybe that answers it. Maybe a gruesome murdering was that mob's trademark. But, since it is a mystery as to who did it, I doubt it is their trademark. So, what if someone who has a reason to not exactly cover her/his tracks by killing Caspar but also, moreso a reason to get more influence and more money from this land deal is the likely person/group behind it. Most likely it is the mayor. He lives large,very large. So, he'd hire someone to off Caspar and he'd get "specialists" who weren't his guys.

 

? Does any of this seem too far fetched given what has been shown?

Edited July 14, 2015 by Hobo.PassingThru

[penelope79]

I'm not sure if any actor could deliver some of this awful dialogue and pull it off.  Maybe Christopher Walken?  But I'm 100% sure that Vince Vaughn clearly isn't the one to do it.  

 

I just wonder if the producers ever realized this fact, or if they're so oblivious to the own sub-mediocre writing?

 

I'm not in love with the direction, either. For instance, when VV and CF made that long pause between the question about our guy Stan ("What happened to Stan?") and the subsequent line, they look into each other eyes, then left, then right... it took an eternity and all I could think of was: "WTH?"

I'm pretty sure they both broke character and laughed. I just feel it.

[Crim]

I think I understand the itty bitty knife scene better. Ani's sister said "All you took was her (mother's) knife." Is it the same knife?

Most likely no. The mother's knife line was said as Ani was examining some carvings and talked about maybe getting one, so I assume the mother did that kind of work (whether those specific statues were hers or not, since the sister is an artist too) and Ani took the knife she used for it.

 

Ani's boot knife is strictly a combat knife (it's a karambit, I think); there is no indication her happy-hippy commune-living mother would carry one.

 

ETA: She has at least one other knife, as seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnHeiX-Tfv8

Edited July 14, 2015 by Crim

[djsunyc]

this show has really bad dialogue and vaughn is not good.  CF and RM are trying their best but this is just bad stuff.

 

at this pace, we're going to bump down to C-level actors...true detective season 3 starring michael paul gosselaar and david caruso.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

[NurseGiGi]

I'm still watching because I like looking at CF and TK.  I just don't care at all about who killed who (not even Stan may he rest in peace). And I miss a lot of the dialogue between VV and his wife because it's now just become white noise for me.  I'm hoping something will happen soon to engage me in the story.

[blixie]

 

Maybe Christopher Walken?

 

This would have been amazing, but essentially yes I think the NP writing requires a GONZO type actor, like Crispin Glover would have also been amazing. That is why I like the Mayor. I'm still mostly ONLY interested in the mystery and the hilariously over the top dialogue (my favorite: Am I....diminished?! Hah).

 

The Paul storyline and TK's performance have crossed over into excruciatingly terrible, much much worse than VV IMO. I just can not make myself give shit about Ray or Ani, the actors are fine, but they can't save this mess.

[Alapaki]

I'm not in love with the direction, either. For instance, when VV and CF made that long pause between the question about our guy Stan ("What happened to Stan?") and the subsequent line, they look into each other eyes, then left, then right... it took an eternity and all I could think of was: "WTH?"

I'm pretty sure they both broke character and laughed. I just feel it.

 

 

That pause with the multiple close-up cuts between VV and CF bespoke either self-parody or complete lack of self-awareness on the part of the show runners.  I'm betting on the latter.  It was awful!

 

This would have been amazing, but essentially yes I think the NP writing requires a GONZO type actor, like Crispin Glover would have also been amazing. That is why I like the Mayor. I'm still mostly ONLY interested in the mystery and the hilariously over the top dialogue (my favorite: Am I....diminished?! Hah).

 

 

 

Or the way Al Pacino played the bad-guy in that awful Warren Beatty version of Dick Tracy.

 

Most of Matthew Mconaughey's most absurdist dialogue occurred in the police interrogation room.  In that setting, they were basically monologues.  Mcconaughey was smart enough to realize that playing it over-the-top was the only way to sell those lines.  

 

Unfortunately, outside of rehashing his Swinger's role (with very few exceptions) Vince Vaughn just doesn't have the acting chops.  He equates speaking slowly and choppily with being imposing and tough.