Figure Skating

[lurkerbee]

9 hours ago, Darknight said:

I hate it how Feds are using children to send a message. Alysa still has to grow up, get through puberty, and hopefully improve for years to come. She also has to handle the pressure to perform internationally. USA fed is just as bad as Russian fed. See look Russia and Japan we have a quad lady too. But she is too young to compete as a senior internationally. I hate the hype Alysa is getting and Tara irks my nerves. USA fed should let Alysa grow and invest in their current senior skaters. 

THANK YOU!  I've been a skating fan my whole life (was lucky enough to witness the 1996 Worlds Kwan/Chen showdown live in Edmonton)  and can barely tolerate watching the ladies event anymore. Granted, it's always been my least favorite of the four disciplines but the advent of the quad to the exclusion of pretty much everything else has almost ruined the sport for me.  For the first time in ages, I was brought to tears by a competitive singles program last night, thanks to Mariah Bell. She was transcendent. The hope of seeing a performance like that is what keeps me from giving up on the discipline entirely. I can't tell the Russian jumping beans apart. Johnny & Tara don't make things any better. 

Get off my lawn!

[iMonrey]

Mariah Bell's free skate was beautiful, but I hate to say a clean program for her is more of a fluke than not. I'm always waiting for her to fall. Maybe she is getting more consistent, we'll see what she does at Worlds. I thought the top three all did well for themselves but there doesn't seem to be anyone else in the top twelve that's really at a level where they could compete against top tier skaters internationally. I think we've got a pretty week field of ladies single skaters overall and that's disappointing. 

I've said this before but part of the problem is that the American ladies tend to split their time between skating and school. I don't think you can carry a full time course load of college classes and train at the same time and be competitive in the top tier. The Russians and the Japanese excel because they do nothing but train. They're not full time college students while training, they're full time athletes. 

And yeah, it remains to be seen whether Alysa will be able to maintain her jumps when she grows a few inches. 

[honeywest]

I hate to say it, but I’m getting tired of Papadakis and Cizeron—not that I prefer Sinitsina and Katsalapov. I like Stepanova and Bukin, and I’m glad that Fear and Gibson are moving up in the ranks.

I’m kind of obsessed now with Zoe Jones and Christopher Boyadji, the UK pairs champs. He’s 29, she’s 40–a former singles skater who didn’t qualify for the Nagano Olympics because of injury. She had a hard fall in yesterday’s free skate but got right back up.

[displayname]

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Is there some scandal with the ice dance results?

I rarely watch ice dance so have no idea but there seems to be some upset if sorts.

Was it legit? 

I think it's not a "scandal" as such, but I do think P/C deserved higher PCS than S/K for both programs. I can't comment on the tech calls that were made, but the LP PCS were a joke.

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

I don't get it. I feel like she's a very artistic skater with excellent grade of execution on all her elements. Just because she's Russian doesn't mean she's evil and bad.

Here's her 3A:

She does a series of turns into it, and gets decent lift, but lands pitched forward on her skates and loses flow. She got +3s and +4s for this.

Her 3Lz comes in a few seconds after that, and her edge is imperfect, and the jump is definitely not that big.

Here's her 3F+3T:

Big jumps, tano on the +3T, but look at how she loses flow out. Mostly +3s and +4s, and even a +5.

She's off the music during the step sequence. I can't pinpoint this via words so I'll let it slide.

The most ridiculous scoring is actually her layback for me. Not even one position is done particularly well, here's how a perfect layback looks like:

That entire performance by Karen deserves to outscore everything we saw here on PCS and GOE, in fact. Kostornaia should beat her ONLY because she does a 3A, and still not by much.

Kosto's skating skills are good, and she skates with confidence, but where is she getting her CO and IN marks for that program? What is she even doing that deserves an average of 9.0? Look at the kind of theme Karen there is able to convey throughout the 3 minutes she has.

Edited January 25, 2020 by displayname

[HartofDixie]

When your used to being 1st

https://mobile.twitter.com/amiali2601/status/1221101562350702594

[Growsonwalls]

Well I like P/C but their FD this year was sort of a turd.

[displayname]

1 hour ago, displayname said:

I can't comment on the tech calls that were made, but the LP PCS were a joke.

Turns out that Papadakis double-footed her twizzle in the One foot step sequence, and they still got positive GOE for that. S/K probably did deserve the win overall.

[Souris]

Nathan Chen makes hard jumps look so effortless.

[absnow54]

Why did Nathan Chen go so early? Or is the Free Skate order random draw. 

[annzeepark914]

40 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Why did Nathan Chen go so early? Or is the Free Skate order random draw. 

This was the short program so I believe they must do a drawing. In the long program, Nathan will probably be last.

[annzeepark914]

2 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

When your used to being 1st

https://mobile.twitter.com/amiali2601/status/1221101562350702594

Well, isn't she special. That's obnoxious. Karma, toots, karma. S/K are more interesting to watch, IMO, anyway. I guess Papadakis caught the Scott attitude when they all trained together.

[ChicksDigScars]

51 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

Well, isn't she special. That's obnoxious. Karma, toots, karma. S/K are more interesting to watch, IMO, anyway. I guess Papadakis caught the Scott attitude when they all trained together.

Well, she also trains with Maddie Hubbell and Zach Donahue, so there you go. 

ETA: When Mellowyellow asked about an ice dance scandal, I didn't even THINK about Europeans. I immediately assumed U.S. Dance. I guess it was just such a forgone conclusion that P/C would win....

I haven't watched it, but I can't imagine any situation, other than Gabby's skating dress coming off completely, that Sinitisina and Katsalapov would be better than P/C. I don't even think that they're the most compelling RUSSIAN ice dancers. 

Is Zhulin writing checks to someone? Didier needs to up his bribery game. 

 

Edited January 25, 2020 by ChicksDigScars

[honeywest]

Who chose that Golden Girls tunic for Alex Krasnozhon?

[Growsonwalls]

The Eteri girls all had a rough FS with some falls but Kostornaia won the Euros.

[katha]

Thing is: P/C have arguably weaker programs this season and that works against them to some degree. But IMO they'd have still won Euros no problem if they skated their best. Both RD and FD weren't stellar, and the FD in particular also had an obvious mistake. They are still the best ice dancers around, but I think at this point they aren't in a different league than S/K. So they can't really expect to always have a massive cushion against them no matter how they skate. IMO perhaps the pressure also got to them in this comp because they aren't used to dealing with actual competition anymore.

I'd say the judging system actually worked as it's supposed to with this result.

[Darknight]

I just want to say Trusova has so much talent. It's too bad her team refuses to work on her skating skills and pace her right and make sure she has the right technique. People thought she would be undefeated this season due to quads but right now she's the weaker of the three. 

 

Russian sweep at Europeans? 

I'm happy people are calling out USA fed for trying to show the Russians we have one too with Alysa. Like I said USA is just as bad if not worse than other big feds. Heck I saw Kaiya last week at Canadian Nationals and I don't see then hyping her up to be the next coming of the skating God to compete with the Russians. And Tara and Jonny shut up please. 

[ML89]

1 hour ago, honeywest said:

Who chose that Golden Girls tunic for Alex Krasnozhon?

Nathan's looks like a rogue Star Trek TOS uniform. However, I want Vincent Zhou's ombre dawn shirt and Jimmy Ma's hoodie.

[Darknight]

15 hours ago, displayname said:

They were.

It obvious. The didn't even need to over score them. They'll win regardless. 

[Darknight]

14 hours ago, honeywest said:

Of course Tara loves Alysa Liu, a little girl with jumps and energy, no visible nerves—and a quad. (Still bitter about the Nagano Olympics? Moi?)

Gracie’s free skate and interview were disturbing. She didn’t look mentally or physically ready to be back at Nationals.

Let's ask Tara how does it feel to defend a title. She basically told other skaters get a quad or go home. And Alysa is the only future for USA ladies skating. This is why people remember Kwan more than her. Kwan nine time national champ. 10 year skating career. 

[CeeBeeGee]

Just now, Darknight said:

Let's ask Tara how does it feel to defend a title.

How would she know? (Zing!)

[healthnut]

S/K don't have great programs this year, either, IMO. Their free skate music is dull and tired. I totally expected that their scores would go up majorly this year and they would start to challenge but P/C but there were no signs of this in the Grand Prix. Admittingly, I haven't seen Europeans yet but how they managed to improve score wise over what they were doing four to six weeks ago seems a bit far fetched. 

As for Nationals:

Mariah was incredible and its so sad she can't be National Champion. Even if she hadn't fallen on her step sequence in the short, her base value is just too low for even amazing PCS to overcome against two triple axels and an underrotated quad.

[Darknight]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Mariah Bell's free skate was beautiful, but I hate to say a clean program for her is more of a fluke than not. I'm always waiting for her to fall. Maybe she is getting more consistent, we'll see what she does at Worlds. I thought the top three all did well for themselves but there doesn't seem to be anyone else in the top twelve that's really at a level where they could compete against top tier skaters internationally. I think we've got a pretty week field of ladies single skaters overall and that's disappointing. 

I've said this before but part of the problem is that the American ladies tend to split their time between skating and school. I don't think you can carry a full time course load of college classes and train at the same time and be competitive in the top tier. The Russians and the Japanese excel because they do nothing but train. They're not full time college students while training, they're full time athletes. 

And yeah, it remains to be seen whether Alysa will be able to maintain her jumps when she grows a few inches. 

And also they have money and training centers. I was surprised to learn Japan only has two or three skating rings. And in Russia you have to move to Moscow or Saint Petersburg if you want to skate at a high level. I think Chen is doing well with Yale and skating but not everyone can do it. The biggest issue is skating makes you no money. Especially if you're not on top. So many go to school or focus on college instead. I wish skating and USA fed gave skaters more funding. 

[sweeks]

Even though Alysa won, the night belonged to Mariah Bell. I'm hoping that she can keep it up for 4 CCs and Worlds. Even if she can't beat the Russians, I'd much rather watch Mariah skate. Her programs are especially well designed and well suited for her this year. Thank goodness she's going with Adam Rippon and Shae-Lynn Bourne for choreography now. They really seem to get her and what works for her.

[Growsonwalls]

1 hour ago, Darknight said:

I just want to say Trusova has so much talent. It's too bad her team refuses to work on her skating skills and pace her right and make sure she has the right technique. People thought she would be undefeated this season due to quads but right now she's the weaker of the three. 

 

Russian sweep at Europeans? 

I'm happy people are calling out USA fed for trying to show the Russians we have one too with Alysa. Like I said USA is just as bad if not worse than other big feds. Heck I saw Kaiya last week at Canadian Nationals and I don't see then hyping her up to be the next coming of the skating God to compete with the Russians. And Tara and Jonny shut up please. 

Everyone bags on Eteri's girls but the truth is all of them had/have loads of talent. The least talented was maybe Evgenia Medvedeva -- technique was never her strong suit. But Yulia Lipnitskaya, Alina Zagitova, and nowadays Alena, Anna, and Alexandra all have tons of talent. I think Alena might be the most talented -- her triple axel is huge and her basic skating skills are wonderful. The issue is Eteri's assembly-line attitude -- she doesn't give the girls the programs and choreography they deserve and they're abandoned at the first sign of puberty. I would actually love to see the three A's through this quad and see how they develop. It's not likely though. 

[Dr.OO7]

I hate that ugly awkward spin position. When and why did this take hold?

[annzeepark914]

Three quarters of the way into Mariah's LP, I started to hear the audience. (It was so much like Kwan's LP's, when Michelle said she could no longer hear her music due to the audience noise). Then they were on their feet. I too wish she had won, but I'm glad she experienced this, esp after so many frustrating times at previous Nationals. I love watching her skate. Her style reminds me of Michelle, Alissa Czney, Sasha, Jennifer (Kirk??), and some others whose names I can't remember.

[redpencil]

Men's SP was so good (at least the top 5)! Even though none of them can touch Nathan, U.S. Men still feels pretty deep all said. Interesting that the top 5 U.S. Men all outscored the entire Euro field. I know you can't compare scoring across events (especially with one being a Nationals), but that still feels pretty fair to me. Those top 5 were all excellent, I thought. Really impressed with Vincent's performance after only like a month of training. Free skate will be interesting.

I was sooo happy for Mariah. She was so great. Bummer that it couldn't be a gold, but Alysa won fair and square. On Alysa, I do think she's improved a lot since last year, and she's still so young. We'll see what happens. Rooting for her at Junior Worlds.

I agree with someone upthread that Bradie/Mariah have an excellent chance of regaining the third spot for the U.S. at World's. Barring any disasters they likely won't beat the Russians or Rika, but they could absolutely beat anyone else if they're on.

Edited January 26, 2020 by redpencil

[Chaser]

Just got around to watching the rhythm dance. H/D going that cocky victory dance after H/B didn’t overtake them was the tackiest thing I’ve ever seen. Was Zach really mocking them by doing the disco moves? Yikes. Then the stone faced glare when C/B took the portion... double yikes. H/D have no class. 

[selkie]

8 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Just watched Mariah Bell's FS. Rafael Arutyunyan really seems to do well with older skaters who struggled with technique and consistency. I wonder if he would do well for Gracie Gold. 

 

From what I've heard around the edges, he's probably a really bad fit for a skater who has struggled with eating disorders. 

[specialj67]

P/C had been undefeated for nearly 2 seasons—it was only a matter of time before another team started to achieve scoring parity. I only wish it was not S/K. I just don’t case for S/K’s programs, and that makes it hard for me to appreciate their apparent improvement in the eyes of the judges.

[TwoBitUsherette]

23 minutes ago, specialj67 said:

I just don’t case for S/K’s programs, and that makes it hard for me to appreciate their apparent improvement in the eyes of the judges.

I couldn't agree more, especially their free dance which I find mind-numbingly boring. I think Charlie White said it best when he was doing commentary for one of their GPs, it's a program that builds to nowhere.

[sweeks]

49 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Just got around to watching the rhythm dance. H/D going that cocky victory dance after H/B didn’t overtake them was the tackiest thing I’ve ever seen. Was Zach really mocking them by doing the disco moves? Yikes. Then the stone faced glare when C/B took the portion... double yikes. H/D have no class. 

Just when I thought H/D couldn't be any more entitled or worse sports, they plumb new depths. This is in sharp contrast to Bradie's and Amber's reaction when Alysa fumbled her jump in the short not to mention C/B's utter shock when they beat H/D at 4CCs last year. 

Here's to C/B having an awesome free dance and winning Nationals. 

[Jeddah]

I was really lucky and had a last minute opportunity to go to Greensboro for the men’s short program. It was so good!

Unsurprisingly, Nathan is amazing live. He really does make it look so easy. I felt like Vincent was underscored. He looked great to me. Jason’s skating really is gorgeous. Seeing him live, I can see why he’s been able to get so far without a quad. Tomoki was great too. 
 

Really, they all brought it! There were so many great skates. I think there were only 3 falls the whole time. I hope everyone delivers in the long program tomorrow.

 

[sweeks]

I'm glad to see Kayne and O'Shea have a decent free skate this year after seeing them (and especially her) seem so crushed last year. However, the program would benefit from different music and styling. The music and cuts were awful. Whoever thought that skating to Anne Hathaway's sobbing on the Les Mis soundtrack shouldn't be allowed to pick music.  

[SophiaD]

Ugh.  The Knierims won again, even though Calalang and Johnson were so much better.  

I know they have superior elements and had a great short program, but they botched BOTH throws* and he FELL, over a young, vibrant team that had a fantastic skate.

So far, my favorite skaters from this Nationals won silver medals.  At least, I get to watch them at worlds.

*That should have been side-by-side jumps, as @SeanC correctly pointed out below.

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by SophiaD

[SeanC]

11 minutes ago, SophiaD said:

but they botched BOTH throws

No, they didn't.  The throws were strong.  They made mistakes on both jumping passes, reflected in their TES, but it wasn't enough to cost them a 9.5 point lead from the short when everything else was of exceptional quality.

There's certainly always an awkwardness when the team that wins the free skate doesn't win overall, but I'd call this a fair victory for the Knierims.  Calalang/Johnson were certainly the moment of the night; they and Walsh/Michaud at Canadian nationals really showed up with huge improvements.

[ML89]

Catching up on the ladies - SoundHound failed me, does anyone know that cover of Fix You that Rina Ihkenishi skated to?

[SophiaD]

You're right, @SeanC.  It was both sets of side-by-sides they botched.  Still preferred the other team, though.

(Also, apologies for the duplicate post!)

Edited January 26, 2020 by SophiaD

[irisheyes]

Watching them interview Meryl and Charlie. With the dress and hair, she looks old enough to be his mom!  Of course, with the glasses, Charlie looks about 16. 😂

[absnow54]

Welp, a day later and Mariah’s FS still left me sobbing.

3 minutes ago, irisheyes said:

Watching them interview Meryl and Charlie. With the dress and hair, she looks old enough to be his mom!  Of course, with the glasses, Charlie looks about 16. 😂

Oh man, Meryl no. Just no. Charlie looked like Clark Kent. 

[specialj67]

13 minutes ago, irisheyes said:

Watching them interview Meryl and Charlie. With the dress and hair, she looks old enough to be his mom!  Of course, with the glasses, Charlie looks about 16. 😂

See, and here I am getting sexy dad vibes from glasses!Charlie and not being mad at all. 
 

Another thing I love about Charlie is him getting on his commentator soapbox about required elements he’s not a fan of. He is emphatically not a fan of the choreographic slide move requirement. He thinks it’s unfair for the ladies because they’re usually wearing dresses and thinner tights while the men wear pants offering more protection from the ice. I kinda agree, now that I think about it.

[Jeddah]

Lorraine Mcnamara’s dress is the ugliest skating costume I’ve ever seen, and that’s saying something.

ETA: Then Caroline Green came out in an equally bad dress. Ugh, what’s with the hideous illusion fabric?

Edited January 26, 2020 by Jeddah

[halopub]

4 hours ago, Darknight said:

And also they have money and training centers. I was surprised to learn Japan only has two or three skating rings.

-

I wish skating and USA fed gave skaters more funding. 

Do you mean elite training centers? Or just places popular with Japanese skaters that also have full size rinks? I would be surprised if there were only three. There’s Hamada’s controversial base at Kansai U. and I think Hanyu trains all the way up in Sendai. There are definitely other full size rinks in the nation, but I don’t know how skating clubs / skating time works over there. Sapporo still has its rink from the ‘72 Olympics and then there is Dydo Arena in the Tokyo area where Jonathan van Ness practiced during Queer Eye: We’re in Japan.

The US system does put so much of the financial burden on the athletes. With all the abuse and/or mismanagement issues across multiple sports, though, I’m reluctant to donate to the USOPC.

 

[specialj67]

Dare I say, I DID NOT hate H/D’s re-vamped free dance? In fact, I kinda sorta liked it? The music changes are blessedly welcome to my ears, and the entrance to their first lift is pretty great. It helped me enjoy their powerful skating and just...their overall projection.

Still, cannot deny I’m excited that C/B won. I love the snakesssssss theme! This is a perfect vehicle for them, and I sincerely hope they can get on the world podium this year.

IDK what Hawayek and Baker have been doing since their last Grand Prix event, but keep it up you two. I was concerned they might get booted from 3rd in favor of Carreira and Ponomarenko (whom I also love, but not quite as much), but they really brought it in the way you always hope an event-closing performance will. 

The 4th-6th place teams all have great qualities, it’s just a shame that both Green/Parsons and Macnamara/Carpenter had stumbles. US ice dance is lucky to have such a deep talent pool.

[annzeepark914]

Congrats to Chock & Bates! The choreography of their FD is fascinating and their incredible lifts are stunning. That move to Gadbois was so smart. And Carriera & Ponomarenko? They sure don't look like they've only recently moved up to seniors. I really like them. The only thing I don't like about ice dance now is all the sliding on the ice (or rolling!) Remember when so many teams were "dying" on the ice? 

[honeywest]

Ponomarenko’s parents “died” on the ice all the time. (Klimova was so nervous she couldn’t even watch C and P.)

Edited January 26, 2020 by honeywest

[Growsonwalls]

13 minutes ago, honeywest said:

Ponomarenko’s parents “died” on the ice all the time. (Klimova was so nervous she couldn’t even watch C and P.)

Klimova was one of the strongest female ice dancers that ever was. 
this is the polka she herself choreographed:

Love Anthony’s mama.

[Mellowyellow]

I'm so happy with the reports that Vincent skated well. I've got a soft spot for him and I was worried how he'd fair as he hasn't skated for a zillion years.

Hoping he'll get that quad Lutz back. He can even do the arms I won't grumble 😌

[Darknight]

7 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Everyone bags on Eteri's girls but the truth is all of them had/have loads of talent. The least talented was maybe Evgenia Medvedeva -- technique was never her strong suit. But Yulia Lipnitskaya, Alina Zagitova, and nowadays Alena, Anna, and Alexandra all have tons of talent. I think Alena might be the most talented -- her triple axel is huge and her basic skating skills are wonderful. The issue is Eteri's assembly-line attitude -- she doesn't give the girls the programs and choreography they deserve and they're abandoned at the first sign of puberty. I would actually love to see the three A's through this quad and see how they develop. It's not likely though. 

That's what makes it so sad. They're seen as products and to fill Eteri's pockets. Her skaters have loads of talent but sadly they don't last long. If they focused on skating skills, presentation, technique, and not just points and jumps I believe her skaters can be well rounded and last longer. I miss Yulia the most. Now I miss Alina. It's sad she sees skaters as disposable but I guess since she can pick and Russia has so much talent they'll replace each other. I'm sure the 10 year old doing quads will be the new Trusova after 2022. Then we'll all be here wondering where the hell did Alena, Anna, and Alexandra go? I guess they don't really care how bad it looks. Sponsors are also attracted to careers that last more than two seasons. 

 

What's so interesting to see is how other feds have older skaters competing while Russian fed mostly have younger skaters competing at their nationals. Seeing Mariah, Bradie and even Liza skate in their 20s means a skater can skater past puberty with the right coaching. 

[Darknight]

3 hours ago, halopub said:

Do you mean elite training centers? Or just places popular with Japanese skaters that also have full size rinks? I would be surprised if there were only three. There’s Hamada’s controversial base at Kansai U. and I think Hanyu trains all the way up in Sendai. There are definitely other full size rinks in the nation, but I don’t know how skating clubs / skating time works over there. Sapporo still has its rink from the ‘72 Olympics and then there is Dydo Arena in the Tokyo area where Jonathan van Ness practiced during Queer Eye: We’re in Japan.

The US system does put so much of the financial burden on the athletes. With all the abuse and/or mismanagement issues across multiple sports, though, I’m reluctant to donate to the USOPC.

 

 

 

That's good to know. I read they have two or three rings in the entire country. Maybe it was training centers. I also read Japan doesn't just like having one skater on top to put all the pressure on. They have nationals camps and their system is so different than the rest of the world. I believe Japan will always have competitive skaters. Even their juniors could probably be competitive in seniors . Their skating is also paid for by the government. So yes, USA puts so many financial difficulties on families and athletes.  Especially for skating. Have talent? Great. Have money? No. O well guess you'll miss out then. 

6 hours ago, specialj67 said:

P/C had been undefeated for nearly 2 seasons—it was only a matter of time before another team started to achieve scoring parity. I only wish it was not S/K. I just don’t case for S/K’s programs, and that makes it hard for me to appreciate their apparent improvement in the eyes of the judges.

Being honest here they were never my favorite but S/K? Really?