Figure Skating

[SeanC]

3 hours ago, Darknight said:

She's having trouble with her 4S and hasn't skated a clean program since the season started. Even falling on a quad or 3a is worth it for the points. It looks to me that Eteri and her team will milk Trusova for all she has. They just keep adding jump after jump. It's irresponsible 

When you're attempting 4-5 quads (particularly early on), it's hardly unusual to not be completely clean.  That's been the norm in men's skating for decades (for that matter, most ladies are lucky to be completely clean even with only triples).  Nothing out of the ordinary.  Trusova can clearly do the jumps (though, as I said, I do wonder whether bringing back the 4S is worth the trouble; but Trusova is open that the high-risk jumps are what she finds interesting).

1 hour ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I am sad  I don't get to see the skaters like/admire, like Kaori/Rika/Evegnia/Alina?Mariah/Bradie, because they cannot live up to the quads. For example,  I love Koari's Matrix program, which I've only seen...once?  Maybe twice?

I'm not sure what you mean here.  The only competition where some of those non-Russian skaters might not be able to attend because of Eteri's skaters is the Grand Prix Final.  Kaori has skated three competitions so far this season, with three more (presumptively) to come.

Unrelatedly, the CBC put Virtue/Moir's 2007 Worlds free dance up on YouTube (presumably geoblocked outside Canada).  I wish they'd put more of the older stuff like this up, it's nice to be able to revisit it.

Edited December 15, 2019 by SeanC

[Mellowyellow]

Julia, Evgenia and now Alina

That's 3 for now. I wonder how the Eteri Kool Aid drinkers will defend her when the current Wunderkidz can't jump anymore.

The puppy mill system seems to be working wonders for her but I am really curious as to when people will acknowledge it for what it is.

The scary thing is they jump really well until one day when they can't jump anymore.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Mellowyellow

[specialj67]

14 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Julia, Evgenia and now Alina

That's 3 for now. I wonder how the Eteri Kool Aid drinkers will defend her when the current Wunderkidz can't jump anymore.

The puppy mill system seems to be working wonders for her but I am really curious as to when people will acknowledge it for what it is.

The scary thing is they jump really well until one day when they can't jump anymore.

I’m sure there are people in skating circles who don’t agree with how the Sambo70 team trains or their methods, but unless/until Sambo70 reach a certain state of diminishing returns, there probably won’t be many willing to speak against them directly or publicly. No one coach or training center stays number one forever—that’s what I feel, anyway. 

[HartofDixie]

Russia is the gift that keeps on giving!

[Growsonwalls]

Days of Our Skates, indeed. 

In other news, this is really beautiful skating:

[healthnut]

[Jeddah]

Poor Maia! That’s so scary. I really hope she’s okay.

[annzeepark914]

Bless her heart. Post surgery is so painful when you move around (as in getting out of bed just to go to the bathroom--so excruciating!) 

[ChicksDigScars]

Oh, Maia! Praying for the best for her. 

[Sew Sumi]

Hoping she's on the 40% side!

[Jeddah]

SafeSport to overturn lifetime ban of allegedly abusive figure skating coach

Richard Callaghan’s lifetime ban got changed to 3 years instead. What’s the point of SafeSport if its rulings can get overturned so easily?

Can we please get some good figure skating news soon?

[Mellowyellow]

On 12/16/2019 at 4:43 AM, specialj67 said:

I’m sure there are people in skating circles who don’t agree with how the Sambo70 team trains or their methods, but unless/until Sambo70 reach a certain state of diminishing returns, there probably won’t be many willing to speak against them directly or publicly. No one coach or training center stays number one forever—that’s what I feel, anyway. 

Ok take this with a handful of salt but apparently Eteri is friends with some woman whose husband is in the inner circle with Putin.

Frankly the way Rusfed carried on about the calls being made during the Grand Prix, spreading rumors that Rika can't do a Lutz with the correct edge hence avoiding lutzes I reckon the puppy mill is state sanctioned and goodness knows what else is state sanctioned. No way it's going to end anytime soon unless another Federation actually has a star that beats them all and they can't win.

I think in 2022 the star from Russia will be whichever 15yr old that's at her jumping peak. I do think Kamila is lovely though so I'm excited to track her.

That said I do think we will be heading towards better quality skating with quads. My theory is that people will see Trusova with her sloppy skating and think "Well if I can do a 3A plus quads and look better than Trusova I'll win."

That's why I'm optimistic about skating as a whole.

I remember Nathan being pretty sloppy during his first Grand Prixs last year (he won but lost points all over the place in the individual competitions iirc) and this year he's nailing it, especially in the final.

Vincent was pretty awesome towards the end of last season too.

[SeanC]

4 hours ago, Jeddah said:

What’s the point of SafeSport if its rulings can get overturned so easily?

Every process has to allow people appellate rights.

It's impossible to know what went on here without knowing what the evidence against Callaghan was, which, since this wasn't a court proceeding, we don't.

[Sew Sumi]

Callaghan isn't even coaching anyone of note. He should have just retired. I sure as hell wouldn't send my kid to him.

[Darknight]

I don't even like the skating lesson but now I must watch them to keep up with the Russian drama. The truth is Eteri's technique doesn't work past puberty. Her technique  also causes more strain on the body. I wish the judges would call out  her skaters technique. Her skaters in my eyes have two options retire or rework their technique. Eteri doesn't fix technique because she has another young skater to replace the older one. Technique also takes time to fix. She has a 12 and 11 year old doing quads to replace her current seniors in about three or four years. People are already predicting Kamila to be Olympic champion because she will be 15 in 2022 and her current seniors will be close to 18 and 19 years old. I think Eteri got a lot of attention this time because Alina and Evengia went 1 and 2 at the Olympics. Alina is ionic for her red ballerina program. I remember watching Yulia fall apart then her next skater Evegenia came and went undefeated for two seasons. I didn't really watch skating during this time. Then Alina came and now the quad/3a skaters came up. This is scary to watch because at 17 in most sports your career is beginning not ending. 

It's damn right sad at 17, you're done. Eteri is similar to Bela and Martha. Take little girls, starve them, burn them out, and rush before puberty hits. Then on to the next one. This isn't just an Eteri issue either. I question Liu  coach too. 

The skating lesson mentioned Russian skaters doping and Russia deleting data entries. I would not be surprised if skaters were doping. I mean they doped in curling. Sharapova and Liza took drugs that weren't banned by WADA until 2016 and they updated the list. WADA can't keep up when people stay 10 steps forward. Lance got away with it his whole career. Eteri taking 40 percent?? Wow. I don't know who has the  biggest ego. 

I do think there are many other talent coaches in Russia like Panova from snowleapords. Her skaters have good skating skills and usually good technique. Liza had good technique and survived puberty because of this. She can land quads and 3A because her coach taught her the proper way to jump. 

11 hours ago, Jeddah said:

SafeSport to overturn lifetime ban of allegedly abusive figure skating coach

Richard Callaghan’s lifetime ban got changed to 3 years instead. What’s the point of SafeSport if its rulings can get overturned so easily?

Can we please get some good figure skating news soon?

What a load of crap. 

[Darknight]

19 hours ago, healthnut said:

I hope she gets better. Poor girl. 

[HartofDixie]

This has turned into a huge story in Russia.

[Jeddah]

16 hours ago, SeanC said:

Every process has to allow people appellate rights.

It's impossible to know what went on here without knowing what the evidence against Callaghan was, which, since this wasn't a court proceeding, we don't.

Why doesn’t the appeal happen within SafeSport though? They reviewed the evidence, and they came to a conclusion. However, an outside arbitrator gets the final say. So Safesport seems pretty useless to me.

[SeanC]

6 hours ago, Jeddah said:

Why doesn’t the appeal happen within SafeSport though?

The use of arbiters is not unusual in these kinds of situations. A lot of small agencies don’t necessarily have an internal appeals process.

That doesn’t make SafeSport useless.  They’re the investigators.

[Jeddah]

47 minutes ago, SeanC said:

The use of arbiters is not unusual in these kinds of situations. A lot of small agencies don’t necessarily have an internal appeals process.

That doesn’t make SafeSport useless.  They’re the investigators.

They have 30 years worth of evidence, and their investigation couldn’t convince an arbitrator that this man shouldn’t be around kids ever again. Seems pretty useless to me.

[SeanC]

49 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

They have 30 years worth of evidence, and their investigation couldn’t convince an arbitrator that this man shouldn’t be around kids ever again. Seems pretty useless to me.

From subsequent reports, the issue wasn’t the evidence, it was that cases that predate SafeSport have to be assessed using whatever rules existed at the time.

[Mellowyellow]

Watching Japanese Nats right now.

Did they hammer everyone except Rika in TES?

She's the only one that kept her score in the box. Everyone went down by 3 points when the final scores came out.

[HartofDixie]

https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/news/2019/12/17/figure-skating-gracie-gold-2-0-a-former-us-champ-heads-to-greensboro-with-a-new-perspective.aspx

[Sew Sumi]

Update on Maia Shibutani. The tumor was cancerous, but no further treatments are required at this time.

 

[annzeepark914]

All the best to Maia, a lovely person, who floated across the ice during her competitive days. I hope she has a quick recovery from surgery and a beautiful, healthy future.

[honeywest]

I am so sorry to hear this news about Maia Shibutani. I hope she has a quick and complete recovery.

 

[Darknight]

6 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Update on Maia Shibutani. The tumor was cancerous, but no further treatments are required at this time.

 

My heart truly breaks for her. I hope she has a super speedy recovery 

I love it how the Japanese calls everything out and score their skaters lower. USA and Russia should take some notes at national inflation. 

 

And I hope Rika is ok and her injury is healing. 

[SeanC]

Landslide win for Rika at Japan nationals, with Wakaba mounting a surprise bid for the silver medal with her best free skate since 2018 Worlds, and an even-more-surprise bronze medalist in Tomoe Kawabata, who had her best free skate ever.

As someone who has followed and been deeply frustrated by Tomoe for two seasons, I hope this is a turning point for her, because she's so good when she doesn't let mistakes get in the way.

Kaori and Satoko both disintegrated, sadly.

[Maelstrom]

That was a great skate! Thanks for sharing. I liked her music too.

Interesting that the Japanese broadcast shows what level the skater received for each elements, I wish the US would do that. Johnny and Tara blather on about levels all the time but we never know what anyone received without searching out the full scores online.

[Mellowyellow]

So so so proud of Rika. Love her to bits.

Watched the practice video earlier and in usual style I freaked the crap out as she ended up on her bum during a fluke fall (wasn't even on a jump she's was just skating and landed plop on her butt) as well as looking shaky. The quad oddly enough was one of the better jumps in practice.

But she delivered!!!!! Omg she delivered when it counted. So thrilled she won her first national title and did it cleanly on her terms.

I is a happy munchkin this weekend 🥰😍😘🤗😊

[Sew Sumi]

Shoma beats a very sloppy Yuzuru to win Nats! Here's his winning skate.

 

[Jaded]

NBC is showing a couple hours of the Grand Prix Final in a couple minutes in the central time zone at least. Will start later in the time zones behind that probably.

[Sew Sumi]

It's on here on the west coast.

[SeanC]

On 12/21/2019 at 3:36 PM, Maelstrom said:

That was a great skate! Thanks for sharing. I liked her music too.

She had such a divine short program at JGP Gdansk earlier this season (I believe I posted it a few pages back at the time, but here it is again for anyone who missed it).  Beautiful choreography by Stephane Lambiel, easily my favourite thing he's done this season.

You could hear Ted's commentary at the end, he was similarly excited that she had gone clean for once.  Then she (per usual) disintegrated in the free skate.  At Japan nationals she had her second clean short program of the season, and I was just assuming she'd bomb the free, but she didn't this time.

Hanyu hasn't had this many competitions in proximity since the fall of 2016, he seems visibly exhausted now that he's healthy enough to not have to keep dropping out of the Japan championships.

Edited December 22, 2019 by SeanC

[displayname]

On 12/23/2019 at 3:07 AM, SeanC said:

Beautiful choreography by Stephane Lambiel, easily my favourite thing he's done this season.

I agree it was great choreo by Lambiel, but my favorite piece from him this season is actually Satoko Miyahara's gala.

On 12/22/2019 at 1:06 AM, Maelstrom said:

Johnny and Tara blather on about levels all the time but we never know what anyone received without searching out the full scores online.

Did they stop doing that? They used to.

Edited December 24, 2019 by displayname

[HartofDixie]

Links For Russian Nationals

https://mobile.twitter.com/TedBarton7/status/1209510909942599680

[Maelstrom]

5 hours ago, displayname said:

Did they stop doing that? They used to.

Well, to be entirely honest, I've taken to watching a lot of the broadcasts on mute, especially when I don't like the skater's music. So maybe Johnny and Tara have improved. But I do know muting them improves the viewing experience a lot.

[Sew Sumi]

2 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

Links For Russian Nationals

https://mobile.twitter.com/TedBarton7/status/1209510909942599680

I hope Ted puts up the links to Dance. That's about all I can see on the west coast. The rest of it is overnight. 😕

[Souris]

So shocked to hear about Maia Shibutani! How scary for her. My fingers are crossed for her. Eff cancer forever.

[annzeepark914]

8 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Well, to be entirely honest, I've taken to watching a lot of the broadcasts on mute, especially when I don't like the skater's music. So maybe Johnny and Tara have improved. But I do know muting them improves the viewing experience a lot.

Amen!  I'm reminiscing now about skaters' music used in the past and most had decent music. OK, there were some, like Butreskia and her "Atonal" that sounded like it was recorded under water. And that music that has yelling/crying and is still being used...don't know the title but it sounds like someone is on the rack. But as soon as a skater's music starts, if it gets on my last nerve? It's hit the mute time. I refuse to suffer. The bonus? I don't have to listen to those two insipid characters. I wish NBC would replace them with Belben & Agosto.

 

 

[HartofDixie]

18 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

I hope Ted puts up the links to Dance. That's about all I can see on the west coast. The rest of it is overnight. 😕

He has

https://mobile.twitter.com/TedBarton7/status/1209511245612797952

[healthnut]

Boikova/Kozlovskii were fantastic today and edged out an almost clean free skate from Tarasova/Morozov. They are Russian national champions. Pavliuchenko/Khodykin ended up with bronze. 
 

Scherbakova stepped out of her quad flip but otherwise was flawless and repeated as National Champion. Kostornaia was a little shaky today and ended up second. Trusova and Elizaveta had rough outings and ended up third and fourth, respectively. Medvedeva withdrew from free skate without boot issues and says she won’t skate anymore this season and work on upping her tech content. 

[Avaleigh]

I really enjoyed watching the A squad do their thing. Anna and Aliona both seem like the real deal to me. I think they've demonstrated that they're a lot more than jumping beans. Both gave beautiful performances and both have qualities other than jumps that set them apart from the other skaters.

Trusova has shown that there isn't much to her programs once you take away the jumps. It's too bad that Elizaveta was having an off night because she could easily have been third. 

Too bad about Evgenia withdrawing. I was surprised that she wants to try to make a quad happen next season. We'll see but I feel like it's a long shot. I am rooting for her though. Maybe it was a little easier for Alina to retire take a break because she's already won everything there is to win. Evgenia still really wants that medal so she's willing to try to learn a quad. Hey, if Mirai was able to get a consistent triple axel in her twenties maybe Evgenia will be able to get a consistent quad. Stranger things have happened. Elizaveta has shown that the idea isn't laughable.

I'm not sure when I started getting more excited for Russian nationals but right now I've been finding it more interesting than US, Japanese or Canadian nationals. Even the men's event was compelling and I thought it would be the least interesting. 

I'm keeping my eye on Anna Frolova. The artistry isn't there yet but those jumps are very nice.

[Mellowyellow]

I always thought there would be a day where someone would beat Trusova with quads and artistry. Looks like it came sooner than I thought. Anna's program was a delight! It would be a real treat if this was the norm in ladies figure skating. I don't think anything is lost at all.

One thing that struck me was that she's (Anna) actually quite fit. Trusova seemed sluggish to me. Tired. Anna seemed fairly fresh for someone who pulled off 3 quads and a bucket load of other jumps. I wonder if an extra 2 quads takes that much out of your tank? 

I'm really intrigued as so what Trusova's strategy is. Go out there and slam down as many quads as possible and win by TES cuz she's poor at everything else?

***

Poor Zhenya my heart broke for her. However she's past puberty, I think of she can hold on financially in Canada and bide her time she might have a chance if she gets a quad and the Wunderkidz go through puberty. It's a gamble but I don't think it's total madness.

***

I'm hoping my Rika can plod along and slowly add reliable quads in time for Beijing too. 

Super excited about 4CC. Didn't really want Rika to compete (busted ankle) but if she's going to go ahead I can't wait to see her and Bradie.

[Growsonwalls]

I think it's over for Medvedeva. She never had the strongest technique and I think Brian Orser is great in taking people who already had strong technique but mentally were pretty fragile and getting them over that hump. His track record is less good for skaters who struggled with technique. See Adam Rippon and Jason Brown. 

I think what was important for Medvedeva was knowing she could skate and enjoy herself. At Camp Eteri that was never going to happen. She has a very winning personality and I could see her doing skating shows for awhile. But in terms of competition skating I think the other skaters are too strong right now.

[HartofDixie]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2019/12/30/olympic-figure-skater-accused-sexual-abuse-apologized/2773347001/

[Avaleigh]

15 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I think it's over for Medvedeva. She never had the strongest technique and I think Brian Orser is great in taking people who already had strong technique but mentally were pretty fragile and getting them over that hump. His track record is less good for skaters who struggled with technique. See Adam Rippon and Jason Brown. 

I think what was important for Medvedeva was knowing she could skate and enjoy herself. At Camp Eteri that was never going to happen. She has a very winning personality and I could see her doing skating shows for awhile. But in terms of competition skating I think the other skaters are too strong right now.

I think you're more than likely right. The odds are so stacked against her. That being said, I don't think it's *impossible* for her to improve on her technique and she comes across as being very determined. She wants it so much that she might be able to fight against the odds.

Even so, assuming that she gets back to the point where she's able to do triple triples without the underrotation issues on the second jump, will she really be able to get a consistent quad? Also, even if Trusova and Anna aren't able to maintain their jumps after their growth spurts, Kamila and Ksenia are waiting in the wings to take over. It's hard to see Evgenia ever winning nationals again let alone the Olympics. Her entire reason for staying in the sport seems to be because she wants that Olympic gold and it seems like an unrealistic goal unless she's able to improve a lot in a short amount of time. 

I don't think a growth spurt will be an issue for Aliona. She seems like she has superior technique to Eteri's other skaters so I feel like the growth thing will be less of an issue for her. Does anyone know---has she not been with Eteri as long as the others? Is that why she has better technique in basically every area? 

It's interesting that Aliona is the only one of Eteri's girls who can consistently do a triple axel. The others don't have good technique on their double axels so it's no wonder that they'd struggle to turn it into a triple. 

I agree with those who think Aliona has the best triple axel I've ever seen from a female skater. It's looks so effortless and smooth. With Elizaveta I kind of hold my breath while I wait and see how it turns out. 

 

[Growsonwalls]

Aliona’s first coach from 2012 to 2017 was Elena Zhgun who studied under Stanislav Zhuk. All of Zhuk’s students had great basic skating skills. Maybe the most famous was Gordeeva and Grinkov. So I think Aliona’s basics are so great because for most of her life Eteri hasn’t been her coach. 

[Mellowyellow]

Kamila skating with just one jump.

She's so graceful and beautiful when she skates I am a huge fan. 

 

[healthnut]

Vincent will be at Nationals, he is switching to Lee Markell & Lori Nichol in Toronto and taking a break from Brown.

Vincent Zhou Coaching Change