Unpopular Opinions

[WendyCR72]

15 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I still like Hope, and will always love Bo.  I miss Bo.  I also never liked Billie.  Any of them.

FRIEND! Especially the Billie part.

Which also means I hate Chelsea. Yes, I said it. She was stillborn ON SCREEN to the scheming version of Billie, for God's sake. And didn't KAllen's Billie carry the dead fetus in a suitcase at some point?!

She only existed again because Reilly needed false equivalence with Bo/Billie/Swamp Baby and Bo/Hope/Shawn [Douglas] and, yeah, NO.

Here's another old time UO: I loved RoJohn with Isabella [cried like a baby when she died - and it stuck!] and have never liked him with "Doc". Because...I just don't care for Marlena. She just always seems so remote/cold to me!

[FnkyChkn34]

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

FRIEND! Especially the Billie part.

Which also means I hate Chelsea. Yes, I said it. She was stillborn ON SCREEN to the scheming version of Billie, for God's sake. And didn't KAllen's Billie carry the dead fetus in a suitcase at some point?!

She only existed again because Reilly needed false equivalence with Bo/Billie/Swamp Baby and Bo/Hope/Shawn [Douglas] and, yeah, NO.

Here's another old time UO: I loved RoJohn with Isabella [cried like a baby when she died - and it stuck!] and have never liked him with "Doc". Because...I just don't care for Marlena. She just always seems so remote/cold to me!

Ditto to all of this as well.  You and me, let's stick together... Ha! :-) 

[Apprentice79]

On ‎8‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 3:35 AM, WendyCR72 said:

FRIEND! Especially the Billie part.

Which also means I hate Chelsea. Yes, I said it. She was stillborn ON SCREEN to the scheming version of Billie, for God's sake. And didn't KAllen's Billie carry the dead fetus in a suitcase at some point?!

She only existed again because Reilly needed false equivalence with Bo/Billie/Swamp Baby and Bo/Hope/Shawn [Douglas] and, yeah, NO.

Here's another old time UO: I loved RoJohn with Isabella [cried like a baby when she died - and it stuck!] and have never liked him with "Doc". Because...I just don't care for Marlena. She just always seems so remote/cold to me!

I hated Billie as well. I did like Sherry Anderson's version, since she created her.  I hated everything about her, once JER started writing her as being on the same level of Hope, in Bo's heart. HELL NO! I loved Bo and Carly, but, Sherry always showed respect to the Bope fans...

Yes, Porn star Billie, the Krista Allen version had the fetus delivered to her in a trunk.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Apprentice79

[FnkyChkn34]

18 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Interesting. But tell me, what do you think of Gabi?

 

;)

You know. . . I'm on the fence. . .  ;-P

She's annoying, she's whiny, she acts entitled for no reason, she's a criminal who kidnaps and murders and I don't care if she did her time or not, I don't have to forgive her if I don't want to, and she dresses like a slut.  There, I said it.  I prefer not to use that word, but c'mon... none of her clothes are attractive and she looks like she's going to work the corner every day/night.  None of this is a knock on the actress - I know nothing about her.  This is a criticism of the character, writers, and costume department.    

[Apprentice79]

4 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

You know. . . I'm on the fence. . .  ;-P

She's annoying, she's whiny, she acts entitled for no reason, she's a criminal who kidnaps and murders and I don't care if she did her time or not, I don't have to forgive her if I don't want to, and she dresses like a slut.  There, I said it.  I prefer not to use that word, but c'mon... none of her clothes are attractive and she looks like she's going to work the corner every day/night.  None of this is a knock on the actress - I know nothing about her.  This is a criticism of the character, writers, and costume department.    

I hate her for being okay with Nick's homophobia.  She had no problem with Nick's nastiness and craziness, until, it affected her personally.  I feel that she only killed Nick to keep her dirty secrets from getting out.  It was a cold-blooded murder. Nick was not an immediate threat to her. She never paid enough for her scheming to get Chad that resulted in Jack's death..

[swtrgrl]

I don't forgive Adriene for her Will bashing.

I don't like Abby nor do I think she's a heroine. 

I don't think KA can act and therefore have never liked Hope.

I've never shipped Bo/Hope or any Hope/Bo combo.

I liked LR's Billie but didn't really give a crap about Hope/Bo/Billie.

I like Gabi and forgive her for all her Nick crap (don't know why. I have no justification. I just do). 

Sonny is and always has been an entitled snowflake douche. I only liked WilSon b/c it's what Will wanted. 

[Apprentice79]

I only  tolerated Sonny because of Will.  Will, as Marlena's first grandson, should have gotten favorable writing over Paul.  

I love Will in all of his incarnations. Mophead Will was my favorite. He is the only legacy child to actually grew up on the show, in real time. He was aged by only 2 years on the show.

I think that Freddie is a terrible actor. 

Paul should have been a villain, scheming to destroy Wilson. Christopher's talent was wasted..

I hate Paul like I hated Daniel, characters like Will and Jack were destroyed so they can be prop.

I love Carrie.  I don't care if people call her self-righteous. 

I learned to tolerate Sami, only because of Will and Lucas.

I love Lucas and I wish that the show had given him another lady love..

I love Bo and Carly. 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Apprentice79

[nilyank]

I have always hated Will since it was discovered that Lucas was his father and inherited his worse qualities. I was not upset that Sami lost him because of how much I hate him.

I thought Sonny and Will got married too young as they were both too immature.

[swtrgrl]

22 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

I only  tolerated Sonny because of Will.  Will, as Marlena's first grandson, should have gotten favorable writing over Paul.  

I love Will in all of his incarnations. Mophead Will was my favorite. He is the only legacy child to actually grew up on the show, in real time. He was aged by only 2 years on the show.

I think that Freddie is a terrible actor. 

Paul should have been a villain, scheming to destroy Wilson. Christopher's talent was wasted..

I hate Paul like I hated Daniel, characters like Will and Jack were destroyed so they can be prop.

I love Carrie.  I don't care if people call her self-righteous. 

I learned to tolerate Sami, only because of Will and Lucas.

I love Lucas and I wish that the show had given him another lady love..

I love Bo and Carly. 

• Yes. Exactly.
• Yes...but I only liked Mophead. Chandler is my fave.
• Yes. Freddie is AWFUL...moreso now that he's a slave to the MLM and that's all he conveys irl and on screen. Schmarmy salesman.
• Yes. Christopher is super talented and so wasted on Days as Saint Paul.
• I don't hate Paul but I get your point.
• I don't like Carrie but to each their own.
• I love Sami, warts and all.
• I love Lucas and Bryan is wasted wasted wasted. 
• You know my Bo/Carly opinion already.

 

22 hours ago, nilyank said:

I have always hated Will since it was discovered that Lucas was his father and inherited his worse qualities. I was not upset that Sami lost him because of how much I hate him.

I thought Sonny and Will got married too young as they were both too immature.

They definitely got married too young. I loved the romantic part of it all and the history making part of it, though. 

[kitmerlot1213]

My unpopular opinion is that once upon a time, Freddy Smith was a great actor and he made Sonny one of my favorite actors.

I remember how believable he was in his scenes with both Chandler and Guy Wilson.  He had an intensity about him when he shared scenes with the actors playing his parents and his uncle Vic and he even had a good sibling vibe with Gabi.  His Sonny was a good guy determined to mend fences with the DiMeras because of his close friendship with Chad.

I also remember how devastated Sonny was when he found out about Will’s cheating with Paul and FS played his angst in a very understated way--his trying to control his pained facial expression when he was in the hospital after getting stabbed was gorgeous.  He was angry and betrayed but trying to hold it together because he wanted to talk to Will in private and his acting was a study in subtlety.

But now that FS’s Sonny has come back from Paris and the show’s made him some kind of Good Fella wannabe, the once great actor has descended into a caricature and it’s sad to watch.

[bobcat1946]

On 8/14/2017 at 3:31 PM, DisneyBoy said:

Interesting. But tell me, what do you think of Gabi?

 

;)

Love Gabi.  Always for the underdog.  Gabi never stood a chance against a Horton.

[swtrgrl]

UO: I also like Gabi. Yes, I was pissed at her for her spinelessness in the Nick/WilSon battles but I do root for her.

[FnkyChkn34]

2 hours ago, swtrgrl said:

UO: I also like Gabi. Yes, I was pissed at her for her spinelessness in the Nick/WilSon battles but I do root for her.

I don't get the sense that liking Gabi is an "unpopular" opinion though - it seems that the majority likes her for reasons definitely unbeknownst to me. ;-)

[Apprentice79]

2 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I don't get the sense that liking Gabi is an "unpopular" opinion though - it seems that the majority likes her for reasons definitely unbeknownst to me. ;-)

I can't stand her.   You and I are the only ones who feel this way on this board..

[FnkyChkn34]

16 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

I can't stand her.   You and I are the only ones who feel this way on this board..

Great minds think alike? ;-)  We can stick together!

[Sidney]

1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:

I can't stand her.   You and I are the only ones who feel this way on this board..

All these years the character been on the show and she's really not significant. The only time when she's really thought  about is when it involves Arianna. 

[Sandman]

On 2017-08-16 at 8:55 AM, Apprentice79 said:

Will, as Marlena's first grandson, should have gotten favorable writing over Paul.  

This is how I feel.

On 2017-08-16 at 8:55 AM, Apprentice79 said:

Paul should have been a villain, scheming to destroy Wilson. Christopher's talent was wasted..

I've never thought Christopher Sean was all that interesting, whether playing a "nice" guy tooth polish model or a villain, from what I've seen. I don't think there's a lot of talent there to waste. Paul certainly didn't start out as a very nice person. I've never thought Sonny was a douche, but his behaviour around his ex was certainly not as principled as it might have been. The whole introduction of the Paul character was cheap and stupid. But I have even less interest in seeing him as a homewrecking schemer (more than he was, I mean) than I do in seeing Regular Formula Sparkle.

And JOHN DOES NOT NEED MORE CHILDREN. Sometimes I think that doesn't get said enough.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Sandman

[BuckeyeLou]

Just want to add, that I am a Gabi fan too...I like the actress and think she has grown into the role.  Gabi has grown & developed a self-awareness that she didnt have when younger.  She has had really bad luck in love, so I wish they would bring a handsome & interesting young man onto the show who would be interested in just Gabi, not always have her be '2nd choice".  

[swtrgrl]

15 hours ago, Sandman said:

This is how I feel.

I've never thought Christopher Sean was all that interesting, whether playing a "nice" guy tooth polish model or a villain, from what I've seen.

Have you seen him play Gabriel on Hawaii 5-0? Check out the clips. He's phenomenal. CS has talent..it's just completely wasted on Saint Paul.

[Sandman]

Granted, I haven't seen a whole episode featuring Gabriel, and it's probably not fair to judge only by some clips, but I have seen some scenes of Gabriel and -- sorry, I'm just not seeing what others are seeing in Christopher Sean. (I'll have to see if I can watch an episode or two, to judge properly. I'm certainly willing to be proven wrong.)

[swtrgrl]

1 hour ago, Sandman said:

Granted, I haven't seen a whole episode featuring Gabriel, and it's probably not fair to judge only by some clips, but I have seen some scenes of Gabriel and -- sorry, I'm just not seeing what others are seeing in Christopher Sean. (I'll have to see if I can watch an episode or two, to judge properly. I'm certainly willing to be proven wrong.)

Go to PinkySwear videos on facebook. She has all of his stuff clipped. You may not like it still but hey, at least you gave it a shot. 
If I were judging CS by his Paul stuff, I'd think he was just a pretty face (and bod) w/no talent. 

[JBC344]

17 hours ago, BuckeyeLou said:

Just want to add, that I am a Gabi fan too...I like the actress and think she has grown into the role.  Gabi has grown & developed a self-awareness that she didnt have when younger.  She has had really bad luck in love, so I wish they would bring a handsome & interesting young man onto the show who would be interested in just Gabi, not always have her be '2nd choice".  

Yes!!!  Gabi has suffered from TPTB not really knowing what to do with her so she ostensibly becomes more of a "utility" player in other's stories.  Whenever they try and take her "darker" they always go way to far; Melanie "stalking" plot, Nick's murder.  The feud with Julie can be interesting at times but not enough to sustain a character.  I wish they would of gave her more to do with Eduardo. 

[Apprentice79]

33 minutes ago, JBC344 said:

Yes!!!  Gabi has suffered from TPTB not really knowing what to do with her so she ostensibly becomes more of a "utility" player in other's stories.  Whenever they try and take her "darker" they always go way to far; Melanie "stalking" plot, Nick's murder.  The feud with Julie can be interesting at times but not enough to sustain a character.  I wish they would of gave her more to do with Eduardo. 

I actually think that she would be better as a darker character.  When the show tries to paint her as a damsel in distress that irks me.  Plus, the show never has people pay for their reprehensible acts.  They make excuses or choose to ignore them. Yes, I am talking to you, Abigail.. Part of the reason that Sami was a love to hate character, was the payoff that the viewers would get, when her public flogging,  came, due to her schemes, blowing up  in her face. 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Apprentice79

[DisneyBoy]

The JJ and Gabi pairing could sustain thm both.

[JBC344]

3 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

The JJ and Gabi pairing could sustain thm both.

I wasn't crazy about them at first but they have actually grown on me.  JJ bores me most of the time but I wouldn't mind if Gabi/JJ were more of a Jack/Jennifer duo, that would interest me. I also like Gabi and Abby as best friends and loved when they teamed up a few months ago.  More of that please. 

[tribeca]

I'd like to see Kate not happy about sonnys and Paul's engagement.   She should have some fun plotting to break them up. 

[nilyank]

3 minutes ago, tribeca said:

I'd like to see Kate not happy about sonnys and Paul's engagement.   She should have some fun plotting to break them up. 

But Kate always liked Sonny. It would be one thing if she tried to break up Sonny when he was involved with Will, that has been Kate's m.o. when she did not like those involved with her kids. As far as she knows, Will was murdered and Sonny is rebuilding his life a few years after Will's death. She usually doesn't begrudge Sonny for trying to be happy. It's not like he is Sami or Chloe whom she plotted or tried to kill over the years.

My unpopular opinion is that I hate Will and always did since he was a child. 

[FnkyChkn34]

4 hours ago, nilyank said:

 

My unpopular opinion is that I hate Will and always did since he was a child. 

I don't necessarily hate him, but I don't understand the extreme love for him either. So I guess my unpopular opinion is confusion as to why he's so popular. He's mostly a boring character who hasn't done much to remember him by. 

[DisneyBoy]

He gave Sami shit for being a crappy mom and then had a very touching coming out storyline. That seems to be about all. But he's also one of the few characters to age almost in real time and he had a rather interesting entrance into the world with the whole Carrie Austin Sami and Lucas storyline.

[swtrgrl]

What DisneyBoy said...and the fact that I started rewatching again when Chandler played him: excellent writing for the coming out story, amazing acting by Chandler, etc... I just got hooked on him. 

[Sandman]

For me it wasn't just that he gave his mom crap for her bad parenting and how he more or less had to be the grownup a lot of the time, but it was clear at the same that he loved her, sincerely and deeply, while still being angry and frustrated with her so much of the time. Some of it was the writing, as it was one of the few times the writers were able to convey a kind of ambivalence convincingly. A lot of it was the acting, though. I think Massey and Sweeney brought out good things in each other. I believed in the family's connections at that point -- I could believe that Will loved his Grandma Kate and his Grandma Marlena in different ways. Chemistry is a word that gets used a lot, but, boy, when it happens, it's like nothing else. I think the writing for the coming-out storyline was more sensitive and far less sensational than this show typically is -- certainly more real, and more fully realized, than anything I've seen in the last two years at least.

[FnkyChkn34]

The coming out story was very well done, I agree.  And Chandler Massey is a good actor.  But as you've all said, he grew up on screen - so what else has he done in the other 25 years?  Not much.  Therefore, I don't hate him, but I don't love him either.  

[rcc]

CM always had that annoying smirk. I hope he lost that.

[swtrgrl]

He can smirk his way any place in my life. LOL

[Silver Raven]

3 hours ago, Sandman said:

For me it wasn't just that he gave his mom crap for her bad parenting and how he more or less had to be the grownup a lot of the time, but it was clear at the same that he loved her, sincerely and deeply, while still being angry and frustrated with her so much of the time. Some of it was the writing, as it was one of the few times the writers were able to convey a kind of ambivalence convincingly. A lot of it was the acting, though. I think Massey and Sweeney brought out good things in each other. I believed in the family's connections at that point -- I could believe that Will loved his Grandma Kate and his Grandma Marlena in different ways. Chemistry is a word that gets used a lot, but, boy, when it happens, it's like nothing else. I think the writing for the coming-out storyline was more sensitive and far less sensational than this show typically is -- certainly more real, and more fully realized, than anything I've seen in the last two years at least.

I always thought that the most touching scene of the entire coming out storyline was when Will looked at himself in the mirror and spit at his image.

[DisneyBoy]

I didn't care for that moment - too OTT, even though I get how it can be a real moment as well. I think his scenes with Marlena were the most touching, as he negotiated his feelings and Mar tried not to let on that she knew where this was heading. Chandler channeled something and really made you see how Will felt pulled in all directions. Plus it was interesting just watching something new from this soap. Marlena had seemingly never met a gay character in Salem but was now talking about this as though she understood Will's struggle. It was frankly the only time I've ever thought of her as a good therapist or mom/grandparent. They gave those two the time to build an intimate relationship through simple "down moments". We never seem to have those moments now. I hope they come back with Will.

Quote

I think the writing for the coming-out storyline was more sensitive and far less sensational than this show typically is -- certainly more real, and more fully realized, than anything I've seen in the last two years at least.

It really felt like the writers were pulling from experiences they'd had in their own lives or stories they'd heard from friends. It was like the show made a conscious decision to not pretend "the gay" didn't exist anymore. Suddenly Sonny had gay friends that were hanging out with him at the pub and there was even a gay club somewhere in town. I imagine when black characters were suddenly appearing on shows populated with nothing but white people it must have felt similar. Like the pretense was over. A breath of fresh air.

I had hoped with Theo being aged up we would get some similar exploration of what autism is like, but we haven't really seen that have we? He's had one panic attack and pulled a gun on Orpheus, which I could easily see any of the characters doing in a similar situation. There's the occasional mention of how he doesn't like to be touched but it's not consistent. Considering Dena was the one who made Theo autistic in the first place, I'm really surprised she didn't put more energy into writing about it in either of her recent stints. Wasted opportunity.

Quote

CM always had that annoying smirk. I hope he lost that.

I only saw the end of his run as it aired, so I was definitely annoyed with his smirking too and happy to see him go. It was only afterwards that I watched his coming-out storyline and saw what a good actor he could be. I hope he's been humbled a bit and really brought his A-game to this return.

[Sandman]

I think (speaking of UOs) that the criticism about the smirk was more frequent than any actual smirking. I only noticed it on a couple of occasions -- certainly it wasn't enough to pull me out of the story very often. I think there were a couple of times where other people might have seen smirks where I saw Will smile in a way that was ironic and self-critical (rather than disrespectful to someone else, which is what I think of as a "smirk.") Anyway, not to belabour the point...

Edited August 30, 2017 by Sandman

[swtrgrl]

He did it a lot towards the end b/c frankly, he was just done with the show at that point. He was upset when they let him go but not necessarily b/c he was off the show but b/c of the way they did it. This is from people I know who he has told. 

[TigerLynx]

Will shot EJ.  For that alone, I like Will sometimes.  True, Will didn't succeed in killing EJ, and Lucas took the fall, but I'm still glad both Sami and Will shot EJ.  Will is Sami/Lucas' son, Kate, Marlena and Roman's grandson, and a Brady/Horton.  If Will means Sami might show up in Salem again, that means he is at least good for something.

[Sandman]

6 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Marlena had seemingly never met a gay character in Salem but was now talking about this as though she understood Will's struggle. It was frankly the only time I've ever thought of her as a good therapist or mom/grandparent.

I think there was a deliberate irony in the fact that Marlena, for all her professional ability, was never a particularly good (or very forgiving) mother to Sami, and that she was a much better grandmother than mother. It clearly bothered Sami immensely that her mother and her son had what seemed to be a closer bond with each other than either had with her -- although part of the conversation between Marlena and Will was often about how much they both loved Sami, to their frequent chagrin. Marlena was definitely at her most genuinely compassionate and therapeutic with Will. I found real poignancy in the way writers at the time handled the idea that the Brady family tried to love each other and to communicate in healthy ways, but they were heartbreakingly bad at it.

I thought that the scene showing Will spitting at his reflection in the mirror was just a little too on-the-nose, but to stretch the topic of unpopular opinions (as this probably isn't one, really), I think one of the most moving moments in Will's coming out was when he asked Marlena "Do you think I'm gay?"

Edited August 31, 2017 by Sandman

[Apprentice79]

2 hours ago, Sandman said:

 I think there was a deliberate irony in the fact that Marlena, for all her professional ability, was never a particularly good (or very forgiving) mother to Sami, and that she was a much better grandmother than mother. It clearly bothered Sami immensely that her mother and her son had what seemed to be a closer bond with each other than either had with her -- although part of the conversation between Marlena and Will was often about how much they both loved Sami, to their frequent chagrin. Marlena was definitely at her most genuinely compassionate and therapeutic with Will. I found real poignancy in the way writers at the time handled the idea that the Brady family tried to love each other and to communicate in healthy ways, but they were heartbreakingly bad at it.

I thought that the scene showing Will spitting at his reflection in the mirror was just a little too on-the-nose, but to stretch the topic of unpopular opinions (as this probably isn't one, really), I think one of the most moving moments in Will's coming out was when he asked Marlena "Do you think I'm gay?"

I think that Marlena was the best mother that she could be to Sami under the circumstances.  Throughout her pregnancy with Will, Sami repeatedly shut out Marlena who tried to be there for her daughter. People forget that Marlena was kidnapped by  Orpheus when Sami and Eric were 2 years old. She came back into their lives when they were 7 years old.  During the 5 years, that she was gone, they bonded with Diana and Isabella as their mother figure.   Carrie, as the older sister, was the constant maternal figure in their household with John as Roman.  Those are the critical time period that  children create a lifelong bond with their nurturer/parent and Marlena missed out on that. I think that affected her dynamic with Sami, not to mention all of the crimes that Sami perpetuated against Marlena and the rest of the Brady clan for years. 

Her dynamic is different with Will because she was there from the beginning.  I remember the show treated Will's birth as an event. He was Marlena's first grandson and worthy of such outpouring of love. Even Stefano was at the hospital, he did not want to miss,witnessing Marlena's first grandson. Victor even went to the hospital, to visit him, signifying a new beginning with the Brady family via Will, after years of acrimony with Kim, Kayla, Roman, Rojohn, Bo and their parents. In general, most parents will tell you that they enjoy being a grandparent more so than being a parent because it is not the same pressures. The expectations of a parent are different than that of a grandparent.. It is not surprising that Marlena had a closer relationship with Will than Sami.. We could say the same thing with Kate, in some ways, she adored Will much more than her own children. He was also her first grandson and has been with him as well, from the beginning.  Will was believed to be Austin's at the time, so, she nurtured and loved him, in a way that she was not able to do for Austin and Billie.  Will was the apple of the Brady family as well, being Roman's first grandchild and Caroline's and Shawn's first great-grandson.  John adored him because he was Marlena's. Will was always more of a Brady, than a Horton.  He was beloved by them too.   His death should have had a ripple effect on everybody, driving stories for years. However, his death, was akin to a pebble falling into the limitless ocean. Sad!

Edited August 31, 2017 by Apprentice79

[pau]

Me too, i never understood the extreme love for the Will's character from some..

He was always so nasty to his mother..and although she was not the best mother, as a soap mother she was not the worst. And she helped him and saved his butt a lot but the guy always trashed her while excusing other characters like Lucas and Kate who were as much responsible for his 'crappy' childhood (not more crappy than majority of soap character's childhood by the way..Many other soap characters went through so much worse actually..)

And he was so over the top at putting Marlena on a pedestal..and while the coming out story was well done for Days, took time to built a nuanced, quite realistic and sensible dynamic between grandson and grandmother, it was maybe to the detriment of his dynamic with his mother..

And Sami was always vilified (some John/Marlena fans/stans really loathe her since always for the most part because of that..) for being rude and mean to Marlena..but first Marlena was not a saint towards Sami..Often she chose John and her family with him over Sami..and was very often unforgiving and very judgemental concerning her own daughter Sami..Sami did some bad deeds to her family granted, but to her mother aside her resentful attitude, she only kidnapped her baby sister Belle and that's all..and while it was really bad and rightfully did hurt a lot Marlena, however it only did last something like two weeks and then John and Kristen came back with Sami and Belle (by the way Sami changed her mind in this story, she did not want to sell her sister but to raise her by herself away from Salem finally..people tend to forget that..)

Also Sami while being resentful (because she felt Marlena did not love her enough..and maybe she was right..) towards Marlena she also showed lot's of love and did defend a lot her mother on many occasions..while Will always trashed his mother, comparing her to others while praising others without any nuance..And yet Sami never stopped protecting and making excuses for Will..

Edited September 3, 2017 by pau

[Apprentice79]

4 hours ago, pau said:

He was always so nasty to his mother..and although she was not the best mother, as a soap mother she was not the worst. And she helped him and saved his butt a lot but the guy always trashed her while excusing other characters like Lucas and Kate who were as much responsible for his 'crappy' childhood (not more crappy than majority of soap character's childhood by the way..Many other soap characters got through so much worse actually..)

The difference for me was that Will never witnessed Kate and Lucas shenanigans growing up and it was always Sami getting humiliated and that affected him deeply.  Plus, Sami was always the author of her own misery.  My dislike of Sami stems from her hatred of Carrie and John who were the constant people in her life and gave her love and attention, when Marlena and Roman were missing. Her devotion to Roman never made any sense to me.  John  as Roman was devoted to Carrie, Eric and Sami.  Marlena's affair was wrong, but, Sami used that excuse for years to justify her nastiness. At some point, you have to stop blaming your parents for your problems and take responsibility for them. 

Edited August 31, 2017 by Apprentice79

[nilyank]

7 hours ago, pau said:

And she helped him and saved his butt a lot but the guy always trashed her while excusing other characters like Lucas and Kate who were as much responsible for his 'crappy' childhood (not more crappy than majority of soap character's childhood by the way..Many other soap characters got through so much worse actually..)

For all of Sami's faults, she was always tried to be there for Will and for the most part, she was the one constant in his life. Yes, his mother scheming was embarrassing to him, but she made sure that he was loved and had a home to go to. Yeah, she kept getting dumped at the altar but he had a normal childhood for a soap kid. 

 

 

Quote

The difference for me was that Will never witnessed Kate and Lucas shenanigans growing up and it was always Sami getting humiliated and that affected him deeply.  

Kate always disrupted Sami's weddings and wanted to humiliate her badly never thinking that it would hurt Will so much.  

However I do think Will was a spoiled little monster because he used Sami's sins against her so he could get his way. 

Lucas would talk down to Sami about her behavior and Will would mimic him. Yes, Sami made a ton of mistakes but so Lucas who lost his sobriety a few times, married women who cheated on him and went to prison.

Lucas shoots EJ (until they said it was Will) and Will decides to move to Switzerland without telling Sami or saying goodbye when he was just 13 and stayed away for almost 2 years.

Kate was married Stefano and Will moved in with her because he was mad at Sami being sort of involved with EJ. He was 15-16.

Sami sleeps with EJ and he gets so mad at her that he blackmails EJ and starts working with him while giving his mother grief about it. 

Sami finds out that Abby slept with EJ and decides to go after her and Will decides to teach her lesson by writing a nasty expose on his mother all the while taking Abby's side as she was some pure, innocent victim.

Yeah Sami promised to give Will a home and family growing up and it blew up in her face when she was publicly dumped but he had his parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles and all assorted Bradys, Hortons, Kate's brood and the occasional Dimera in his corner loving and protecting him. 

He was and always will be an entitled, spoiled, smirking twerp.

[JBC344]

Well to be fair, Will has been a character on the show now for more than twenty years.  The period where he was "mean/selfish/spoiled/etc" was a very small amount of time overall.  I wasn't crazy about that period because of the way they tried to mirror Sami and Will and their childhood struggles, but I also thought given Will's childhood he sort of had a right to "rebel" and I thought he made some real valid points even if I didn't enjoy the overall storyline.

In terms of Sami/Lucas/Kate and their schemes over the years.  I think Will sort of looked at them as all "even" in a sense.  Even though Kate was Will's third parent, she is on a different pedestal than his own parents so I understand not having residual anger towards her.  Also since Will was a pre-teen Sami/Kate/Lucas weren't really fighting over him as much so a lot of those circumstances are in Will's distant past. 

What I think was the real clincher and something I think TPTB did get right was Will's anger at Sami because she is/was unwilling to change.  Even viewing Sami and Lucas as even for his childhood issues Will has come to recognize that Lucas has changed.  He has matured and has come to a different place in his life.  Not perfect but not the schemer he was when they were all younger.  I also think Lucas going to jail for Will was a big turning point.  Rightfully so Will has recognized the Sami up until that point really hadn't changed that much.  In a lot of ways she was always her own worst enemy.  Seeing his mother continue to display that behavior when she now has three other children who are witnessing it, I think Will had some real legitimate points.

Didn't care for the vehicle that the show used to express it (trying to turn Will into a mini Sami) but I thought the "conflict" was well deserved and a perfect time to explore with Will entering adulthood.

[pau]

1 hour ago, JBC344 said:

Well to be fair, Will has been a character on the show now for more than twenty years.  The period where he was "mean/selfish/spoiled/etc" was a very small amount of time overall.  I wasn't crazy about that period because of the way they tried to mirror Sami and Will and their childhood struggles, but I also thought given Will's childhood he sort of had a right to "rebel" and I thought he made some real valid points even if I didn't enjoy the overall storyline.

In terms of Sami/Lucas/Kate and their schemes over the years.  I think Will sort of looked at them as all "even" in a sense.  Even though Kate was Will's third parent, she is on a different pedestal than his own parents so I understand not having residual anger towards her.  Also since Will was a pre-teen Sami/Kate/Lucas weren't really fighting over him as much so a lot of those circumstances are in Will's distant past. 

What I think was the real clincher and something I think TPTB did get right was Will's anger at Sami because she is/was unwilling to change.  Even viewing Sami and Lucas as even for his childhood issues Will has come to recognize that Lucas has changed.  He has matured and has come to a different place in his life.  Not perfect but not the schemer he was when they were all younger.  I also think Lucas going to jail for Will was a big turning point.  Rightfully so Will has recognized the Sami up until that point really hadn't changed that much.  In a lot of ways she was always her own worst enemy.  Seeing his mother continue to display that behavior when she now has three other children who are witnessing it, I think Will had some real legitimate points.

Didn't care for the vehicle that the show used to express it (trying to turn Will into a mini Sami) but I thought the "conflict" was well deserved and a perfect time to explore with Will entering adulthood.

Well..to me Will was a little shit for more than a very small amount of time..at least a little shit towards his mother..he could be great and supporting to her but during really small amount of time overall..(when she was with Rafe for a while and well Will put the guy on a pedestal and kept making little digs about Sami not being good enough for a guy like the all mighty Rafe...and when Ej and her were in the run in order to find proof of Ej's innocence in the fake murder of Stefano story..and that's about it, i think). Otherwise Will was almost always in whiny and blame game mode concerning his mother while praising his father and his grandmother who were very often responsible of his mother's problems..Sami was not always the only source of her own troubles..Kate had a major role in it..hey, she framed her for a murder Lucas did commit ! And Lucas was an accomplice..and don't get me started on the Will doll fiasco..

And Will was mad at Sami and very enabling towards Lucas far before Lucas 'changed' or was willing to change..

Moreover Lucas 'changing'..well he was above all offscreen, did not have any real storylines so he was not involved in schenanigans..it is the major reason why Lucas suddenly was so mature, not scheming and not getting into any troubles/drama..

As for Sami, in her last years she schemed a lot of time in order to help Will actually..her type of schemes changed a lot, it was not so much self-absorbed, selfish and jealous drive..the irony : it was above all to the benefit of Will, the same guy who blames and trash talked her for her scheming nature..Sami could really misjudge her actions and make things worse than it was, but it was pretty clear in her last years on the show, in Salem that she was driven by her children and their interests, except maybe with her Ej's shooting, but that was Sami's exploding, total lack of self-control and writers wanted to use her for 'shocking' plot point..

Edited August 31, 2017 by pau

[JBC344]

10 minutes ago, pau said:

Well..to me Will was a little shit for more than a very small amount of time..at least a little shit towards his mother..he could be great and supporting to her but during really small amount of time overall..(when she was with Rafe for a while and well Will put the guy on a pedestal and kept making little digs about Sami not being good enough for a guy like the all mighty Rafe...and when Ej and her were in the run in order to find proof of Ej's innocence in the fake murder of Stefano story..and that's about it, i think). Otherwise Will was almost always in whiny and blame game mode concerning his mother while praising his father and his grandmother who were very often responsible of his mother's problems..Sami was not always the only source of her own troubles..Kate had a major role in it..hey, she framed her for a murder Lucas did commit ! And Lucas was an accomplice..and don't get me started on the Will doll fiasco..

And Will was mad at Sami and very enabling towards Lucas far before Lucas 'changed' or was willing to change..

Moreover Lucas 'changing'..well he was above all offscreen, did not have any real storylines so he was not involved in schenanigans..it is the major reason why Lucas suddenly was so mature, not scheming and not getting into any troubles/drama..

As for Sami, in her last years she schemed a lot of time in order to help Will actually..her type of schemes changed a lot, it was not so much self-absorbed, selfish and jealous drive..the irony : it was above all to the benefit of Will, the same guy who blames and trash talked her for her scheming nature..Sami could really misjudged her actions and make things worse than it was, but it was pretty clear in her last years on the show, in Salem that she was driven by her children and their interests, except maybe with her Ej's shooting, but that was Sami's exploding, total lack of self-control and writers wanted to use her for 'shocking' plot point..

I think we ultimately see this situation very differently.  What I am curious is that do you think Will's "issues" with Sami were justified?  Like I mentioned for me I wasn't happy with the "vehicle" that they used to show it, but I did agree with a "storyline" of Will confronting Sami about his issues with her. 

I do wholeheartedly see Lucas in a different situation though.  Lucas to me isn't perfect but he is not the same person he was when he was younger.  It's not an issue of screen time for me but with intent and demeanor.  Sami's default is to scheme and she is still in the mentality of "do whatever to get what you want".  At least at that point.

Do I think Sami has matured some, absolutely, especially since her and Will made up.  I also agree with you that she did scheme to help Will out and has put her children first.  I think the difference is that it isn't as black and white for Will.  Will isn't mad that Sami schemes to help him and his siblings but a lot of her schemes were 100% about Sami.

Now with all that said Sami is still hands down the most complex interesting character Days has put forth.  Weather or not I always agree with what she does I am always entertained and interested.  Above all it was always good material for the character of Sami.

[pau]

6 minutes ago, JBC344 said:

I think we ultimately see this situation very differently.  What I am curious is that do you think Will's "issues" with Sami were justified?  Like I mentioned for me I wasn't happy with the "vehicle" that they used to show it, but I did agree with a "storyline" of Will confronting Sami about his issues with her. 

I do wholeheartedly see Lucas in a different situation though.  Lucas to me isn't perfect but he is not the same person he was when he was younger.  It's not an issue of screen time for me but with intent and demeanor.  Sami's default is to scheme and she is still in the mentality of "do whatever to get what you want".  At least at that point.

Do I think Sami has matured some, absolutely, especially since her and Will made up.  I also agree with you that she did scheme to help Will out and has put her children first.  I think the difference is that it isn't as black and white for Will.  Will isn't mad that Sami schemes to help him and his siblings but a lot of her schemes were 100% about Sami.

Now with all that said Sami is still hands down the most complex interesting character Days has put forth.  Weather or not I always agree with what she does I am always entertained and interested.  Above all it was always good material for the character of Sami.

I understand...For Lucas maybe you are right but to me the characterisation of Lucas now changed and suddenly he is just a good guy, the stable force and Sami always the screwed-up..was pretty weak and did not convince me but i respect your different view about it.

As for Will and Sami, i agree the dynamic is interesting and complex..although the one between Sami and Marlena was much more nuanced, complex, interesting and maybe better written to me. However Will one-note black/white 'my mother is bad and sucks/the others are the best' always frustrated me..But some moments between them could be deep and a great potential to explore and even sometimes complex and fascinating to watch.

[JBC344]

23 minutes ago, pau said:

I understand...For Lucas maybe you are right but to me the characterisation of Lucas now changed and suddenly he is just a good guy, the stable force and Sami always the screwed-up..was pretty weak and did not convince me but i respect your different view about it.

As for Will and Sami, i agree the dynamic is interesting and complex..although the one between Sami and Marlena was much more nuanced, complex, interesting and maybe better written to me. However Will one-note black/white 'my mother is bad and sucks/the others are the best' always frustrated me..But some moments between them could be deep and a great potential to explore and even sometimes complex and fascinating to watch.

I so agree with you there!!!!!

[Apprentice79]

1 hour ago, pau said:

Well..to me Will was a little shit for more than a very small amount of time..at least a little shit towards his mother..he could be great and supporting to her but during really small amount of time overall..(when she was with Rafe for a while and well Will put the guy on a pedestal and kept making little digs about Sami not being good enough for a guy like the all mighty Rafe...and when Ej and her were in the run in order to find proof of Ej's innocence in the fake murder of Stefano story..and that's about it, i think). Otherwise Will was almost always in whiny and blame game mode concerning his mother while praising his father and his grandmother who were very often responsible of his mother's problems..Sami was not always the only source of her own troubles..Kate had a major role in it..hey, she framed her for a murder Lucas did commit ! And Lucas was an accomplice..and don't get me started on the Will doll fiasco..

And Will was mad at Sami and very enabling towards Lucas far before Lucas 'changed' or was willing to change..

Moreover Lucas 'changing'..well he was above all offscreen, did not have any real storylines so he was not involved in schenanigans..it is the major reason why Lucas suddenly was so mature, not scheming and not getting into any troubles/drama..

As for Sami, in her last years she schemed a lot of time in order to help Will actually..her type of schemes changed a lot, it was not so much self-absorbed, selfish and jealous drive..the irony : it was above all to the benefit of Will, the same guy who blames and trash talked her for her scheming nature..Sami could really misjudge her actions and make things worse than it was, but it was pretty clear in her last years on the show, in Salem that she was driven by her children and their interests, except maybe with her Ej's shooting, but that was Sami's exploding, total lack of self-control and writers wanted to use her for 'shocking' plot point..

Sami declared war on Lucas and Kate first.  Sami blackmailed Kate with her past a prostitute. Not to mention, she robbed Lucas of two years with his son Will. I know that Sami truly believed that Austin was the father, but, once she found out the truth, she suppressed the information. Then, she would not let Lucas around him, Lucas was always drawn to Will, even before he found out the truth.  Once the truth came out, she did everything in her power to continue to keep him from Lucas by encouraging Will to only want Austin as his dad. Will did reject Lucas and this led to the infamous helicopter scene, where a drunken Lucas dropped Will accidently, hurting him. Sami lied and said that Lucas hit Will to get her hooks into Austin. Austin the idiot fell for it, due to his horrific past with his dad Curtis. Eventually, she did win sole custody of Will and would not let Will see him.  Kate set up Sami for Franco's murder as a desperate act to get Lucas his son. Ultimately, it backfired on then, when Lucas and Kate were forced to give up all rights to Will, to avoid prison for murder and obstruction of justice. Sami was never an innocent victim of Kate and Lucas.

58 minutes ago, pau said:

As for Will and Sami, i agree the dynamic is interesting and complex..although the one between Sami and Marlena was much more nuanced, complex, interesting and maybe better written to me. However Will one-note black/white 'my mother is bad and sucks/the others are the best' always frustrated me..But some moments between them could be deep and a great potential to explore and even sometimes complex and fascinating to watch.

I agree with you. Sherry wrote the dynamic between Sami and Marlena. Other writers took up the mantle, but, nobody wrote it with as much sensitivity and care as she did. Remember she gave Sami an eating disorder to cope with the stress of  keeping quiet about Marlena's affair. That was what I always loved about Sherry's writing, everything had a purpose and consequences.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Apprentice79