LGBT Themes, Stories And Characters On TV

[Rick Kitchen]

Wasn't Santana also responsible for outing that Quinn's baby was really Puck's?

[shantown]

58 minutes ago, Rick Kitchen said:

Wasn't Santana also responsible for outing that Quinn's baby was really Puck's?

Puck tells Mercedes first. She (off-screen) tells the rest of the club, who hid all hide it from Rachel. She suspects it anyway, and tells Finn. Finn asks Quinn about it, who admits it to the whole group.

Edited May 21, 2016 by shantown
adding more info

[SparedTurkey]

Quote

But in the particular incident I'm referring to, when Finn lashed out due to her relentless teasing, she became the put-upon victim of his cruelty, and FWIW I"m not saying "poor baby Finn" or whatever else. What I am saying is that to make her the innocent bystander and him the bully made her (IMO) exactly like every other (usually heterosexual male) "hero" on TV who would get all thentitive when someone used their own tactics against them. Didn't work for them, shouldn't work for her.

Hmm yeah I don't agree with that interpretation and there was nothing about that storyline that painted Santana as a 'hero'. Rather, Finn remained the hero. Personally I found this storyline to be one of the worst on Glee ever and makes me hope it doesn't go down in history as even one of the best gay shows ever made.

Finn outed Santana because she made fun of him. While I don't condone bullying (even though Sue/Santana's verbal tirades did seem more like season 1 and is indicative of the fact the show didn't even know whether bullying should be taken seriously or used for comedy thats not the point) the show had a white, heterosexual male use a WOC's sexuality as a weapon. And what happened? Nothing to Finn. He never apologised to her and no other character pointed out to him that forcibly outing someone is never okay and borders on dangerous. Rather, he blackmailed her in to sitting in a Glee club lesson while everyone else sung to her when she was clearly not okay with it because HE wanted her too. This of course, is after Kurt asserting to Karofsky that he would never out him - after violent and physical bullying. Why? Because lesbians don't count and it's more important for men?

I find this storyline both sexist and homophobic. I think the interpretation that Santana deserved it to be equally repulsive. Why did Finn not go to Schue about the bullying? Figgins? Why did he find her being a lesbian something viable to use as a weapon? Particularly after all that happened with Kurt, his step-brother? Particuarly knowing the school was not even tolerant? Without knowing what Santana would face at home? But no - Finn knows best I guess.

Just to reiterate - I get that Finn lashed out because he was sad and frustrated and Santana shouldn't have teased him. But his response was inexcusable and disproportionate.

If even a show like Faking It can point out outing isn't okay - you would have thought Glee would have. Particularly as the show itself lauded itself as the best and most positive representation of LGBT themes and was changing the tv landscape. Well, maybe for gay white men only.

[DearEvette]

I liked Glee in the first season.  I didn't like it as much second season but I kinda stuck with it.  But I completely tapped out after the episode where after Kurt's father & Finn's mother were getting romantically serious, Finn and his mother were invited to move in with Kurt and his father.  Finn and Kurt were expected to share a bedroom even though Kurt had made it blatantly clear he had a major crush on Finn.  Finn was completely uncomfortable with the situation about sharing a bedroom with someone who was interested in him sexually. 

But the script made Finn call Kurt's room "faggy" so all of the, imo, valid issues Finn was having got completely swept away and he was made to look like a bad guy.  The writing imbued in Kurt all sorts of gay victimhood at the hands of a hyper masculine homophobe Finn. Even though it was  actually Kurt who was somewhat of a predator when it came to Finn.   Imagine if Finn had been a girl and Kurt a hetero guy who had made his sexual interest in her obvious? They would have never been expected to share a room.  I hated that entire episode, how it played out, how it created homophobia where there really shouldn't have been any, and how it completely ignored Kurt's inappropriateness.

[SmithW6079]

On 5/21/2016 at 7:44 PM, DearEvette said:

I liked Glee in the first season.  I didn't like it as much second season but I kinda stuck with it.  But I completely tapped out after the episode where after Kurt's father & Finn's mother were getting romantically serious, Finn and his mother were invited to move in with Kurt and his father.  Finn and Kurt were expected to share a bedroom even though Kurt had made it blatantly clear he had a major crush on Finn.  Finn was completely uncomfortable with the situation about sharing a bedroom with someone who was interested in him sexually. 

But the script made Finn call Kurt's room "faggy" so all of the, imo, valid issues Finn was having got completely swept away and he was made to look like a bad guy.  The writing imbued in Kurt all sorts of gay victimhood at the hands of a hyper masculine homophobe Finn. Even though it was  actually Kurt who was somewhat of a predator when it came to Finn.   Imagine if Finn had been a girl and Kurt a hetero guy who had made his sexual interest in her obvious? They would have never been expected to share a room.  I hated that entire episode, how it played out, how it created homophobia where there really shouldn't have been any, and how it completely ignored Kurt's inappropriateness.

Ah, but St. Kurt of Lima could do no wrong, don't you know?  I kind of stopped watching "Glee" after the first few seasons, but I hated that Kurt never got called on his shitty behavior, because he had to be the perpetual victim.

[maraleia]

Check out this really good chart of all the deaths this past season http://www.vox.com/a/tv-deaths-lgbt-diversity

[shantown]

1 hour ago, maraleia said:

Check out this really good chart of all the deaths this past season http://www.vox.com/a/tv-deaths-lgbt-diversity

Ouch, does it ever hurt to see Root on there.

[joelene]

Has anyone seen this show called Sex & Violence? It's from Canadian OUTTv station which I'd never heard of before. I just stumbled upon it and it's pretty goddamn great. It is very, very liberal with nudity and sex scenes, liberal to the point where I'm wondering if half of it is unsimulated. Straight, gay, lesbian, all kinds of sex, everyone gets to have sex, Olympia Dukakis gets to have a lot of sex. I've never seen so many dicks on display in a TV drama and there is much more male nudity than female. It's about domestic abuse and the cops, social workers, foster parents, doctors and all the people involved in all of this. Men's abuse towards women is of course front and centre and the subject is treated very seriously, but there is some humour sprinkled around as well.

I can't believe I've never heard of this show before. I did search for it and it doesn't appear to have been given a lot of coverage, but maybe I've just been blind to this show. There's been two six-episode seasons and another three episodes are coming out later this year. I'm up to episode 2 season 2 and I'm gonna finish it tomorrow. If you can find it, check it out. 

[selkie]

In a bit of a surprise move, Pivot (USA) and ABC2 (Australia) have announced that a 4th season of 'Please Like Me' has begun filming for a November season debut. The characters aren't always the most likeable, and it can be a little uneven, but there are times where the show just utterly hits it out of the park on both the serious and the funny. (The end of the Adele the chicken episode was brilliant, IMO.)

The promo mentions that a big plot point will be what happens with Josh and Arnold after the honeymoon phase of a relationship wears off.

[atomationage]

There is a lesbian wedding on today's Hollyoaks, between Esther and Kim.   It's been off and on for a while with them.  Esther's grandmother has been trying to stop it from happening by getting another woman, Grace, involved.   It's a soap opera, so there won't be a happy ending. 

Hollyoaks probably has more gay characters than any other show that's not predominantly gay.  

[galax-arena]

Freeform's Guilt had its finale this week, and... sigh. The big reveal ended up being that Molly Ryan (the murder victim) was in a secret relationship with Roz Walters, the black lesbian DJ. Turns out that Roz masterminded Molly's murder by blackmailing Grace's (the main character under investigation throughout the season) boyfriend into killing her. The motive? Roz was jealous that Molly liked Prince Theo (lol) after the two (Molly and Theo) hooked up at an exclusive sex club and Molly got knocked up with Prince Theo's baby and wanted to keep it. Roz couldn't stand the idea of Molly living in a world that didn't include her, so she arranged to have her killed. As you do. 

And of course this was all revealed with a last-minute confession to Grace, whereupon Grace killed Roz by hitting her on the head repeatedly with some object. 

This is so great because I've always wanted more psycho lesbians in the media. If she's a psycho lesbian WOC, even better! /s

[DearEvette]

I binge watched all three seasons of Survivor's Remorse on STARZ and I have to say my favorite break-out character (among many strong characters) is Mary Charles, affectionately called M-Chuck.  She is the lesbian sister of the main character and she is a riot.  Nicely complex, she is out and proud and her family.  Also within the context of the show and her family, her homesexuality is as normalized as everyone else's heterosexuality.  But I just love the way the actress portrays her.  She's a pisser!

Edited October 4, 2016 by DearEvette

[DisneyBoy]

Quote

I grew to dislike Kurt and the story they were telling about him - though it was much much better in the first 13 episodes. And I really didn't like that his main adversary was a closeted gay teen. I thought that was the wrong message.

That whole bully thing didn't make a lick of sense to me. I do think that there's a nugget of truth there, and that bullies, especially homophobic ones, are probably projecting their internal self loathing onto someone else. But it didn't seem to make any sense to me whatsoever that this guy would be interested in Kurt. I didn't see chemistry there (from his side), it didn't seem to be well developed and it just felt like a cheesy cop out. Well of course he's terrifying Kurt-  he loves him! *eyeroll*

I never watched the show consistently because I could never really buy into the world. Ryan Murphy's style always pushes things so far beyond the point of believability. I think in the hands of another writer the show could have been much more palatable, but then it probably wouldn't have been getting headlines nearly as much. I happened to catch a few episodes here and there and the end of that bully episode just reinforced my frustrations.

On 21/05/2016 at 7:44 PM, DearEvette said:

I liked Glee in the first season.  I didn't like it as much second season but I kinda stuck with it.  But I completely tapped out after the episode where after Kurt's father & Finn's mother were getting romantically serious, Finn and his mother were invited to move in with Kurt and his father.  Finn and Kurt were expected to share a bedroom even though Kurt had made it blatantly clear he had a major crush on Finn.  Finn was completely uncomfortable with the situation about sharing a bedroom with someone who was interested in him sexually. 

But the script made Finn call Kurt's room "faggy" so all of the, imo, valid issues Finn was having got completely swept away and he was made to look like a bad guy.  The writing imbued in Kurt all sorts of gay victimhood at the hands of a hyper masculine homophobe Finn. Even though it was  actually Kurt who was somewhat of a predator when it came to Finn.   Imagine if Finn had been a girl and Kurt a hetero guy who had made his sexual interest in her obvious? They would have never been expected to share a room.  I hated that entire episode, how it played out, how it created homophobia where there really shouldn't have been any, and how it completely ignored Kurt's inappropriateness.

This was another one of the episodes I caught, and again it was frustrating me for those very reasons and I'm so glad you brought them up. I didn't see enough of the show to know whether Kurt was being predatory, but it was a very forced conflict to have these two guys share a room, and I didn't buy for a second that Finn was that homophobic. It definitely sounded more to me like he wanted people to be considerate towards him about his living environment. In a lot of ways it felt like Kurt's "brave journey" was being shoved down everyone's throat - the other characters, the audience, the media, etc - and it really irritated me.

How this show won any awards for a brave depiction of a gay teen, and Ugly Betty's Justin storylines went practically unnoticed baffles me. One was handled with much more dignity and insight than the other.

Kurt's father making his wedding vows all about how wonderful Kurt is especially made me want to vomit. That wasn't just some fantasy version of acceptance - it bordered on hysterical delusion. Would any straight kid be getting kudos from their parent while they were standing at the altar? I don't think so. And didn't everyone stop and clap for Kurt too? Ugh.

But then I don't remember the show getting anything right, even making Rachel into someone so unlikeable you couldn't root for her to succeed when she was clearly supposed to be the heroine and breakout star destined for Broadway.

Again, as far as good portrayals of gay characters go, I look to Ugly Betty. I wish Mark St. James's issues with his mother factored a little more into the series beyond that one episode with Patti LuPone, but her vanishing also kind of worked. I assume a lot of people get cut out of their families just as abruptly, and to their credit the show did bring the whole thing up in one of the final episodes when the series was cancelled.

Maybe this is a controversial opinion, but I didn't particularly care for Will & Grace back in the day. Megan Mullally's character was awesome, but Jack irritated me to no end and I never really found Will entertaining or all that believable either. It felt like a straight guy playing a gay character, but everybody else seems to think the opposite. Just me?

Did Star Trek have any gay characters? I feel like there might have been some coded ones in there but nothing is coming to mind. Sulu was written as straight, and Odo seemed interested in Troy's mother from what I remember. It just feels like the kind of franchise that would have been forward thinking about that sort of thing.

 

Edit: Wait - Jadzia Dax was bi on DS9, right?

Edited October 4, 2016 by DisneyBoy

[Blergh]

OK, here's a blast from the past:

 

In the otherwise forgettable and lamentable MTM spinoff of "Phyllis" , the now-widowed title character was living with her mother-in-law as well her stepfather and stepgrandmother-in-law  (the latter called 'Mother' Dexter- virtually the only likable or interesting character on the show mainly because she was the one who most openly dissed Phyllis ).

   Anyway, amongst one of her less-than-satisfying dates, Phyllis Lindstrom found out that she was dating a gay man and discussed it with her in-laws. During this discussion Phyllis exclaimed something to the effect of: "But he IS gay- which means there's not the slightest possibility I could MARRY him!"

 To which Mother Dexter gave the perfect zinger: " I guess being gay does have its advantages!"

[Rinaldo]

On October 4, 2016 at 0:12 PM, DisneyBoy said:

Maybe this is a controversial opinion, but I didn't particularly care for Will & Grace back in the day. Megan Mullally's character was awesome, but Jack irritated me to no end and I never really found Will entertaining or all that believable either. It felt like a straight guy playing a gay character, but everybody else seems to think the opposite.

I don't find that particularly controversial. I liked all the actors, actually (if anything Megan Mullally bugged me slightly, funny as she was, because she did the whole series in a fake voice), and their ensemble was a nice meshing of different acting and comedy styles. And I would never underrate its value in putting this milieu on a network (I remember the mild bewilderment and amusement in my circles when it started and we actually had more than the maximum-of-one-per-series representation: "what, we get two??"); strongly as we might feel that the world ought not develop its attitudes from network sitcoms and that this wasn't the ultimate statement on the subject, I think it did some good just being around, existing on the airwaves for a decade; it did move public thought along a little bit.

But. I never thought it was really first-rate comedy writing. I kept seeing lines that were sort of placeholders for real punch lines if someone later thought of something better, with the cast doing their damnedest to sell them (and sometimes succeeding). I saw characterization that veered all over the map depending on what a situation or plot called for (and this, I think, not the acting per se, was the problem with Will: Eric McCormack had be stuffy, loose, clingy, loner, queeny, corporate, whatever the script said, and no actor could tie it all into one person convincingly). I wanted to like it so much, but sometimes in later seasons the writing didn't even reach second-rate, and the situations got more and more bizarre and the stunt casting more blatant (Matt Damon, the first really big guest star, was the best, I think). Oh well, I don't want to trash something that did, as I said, advance the social discourse just by existing. And I can single out one really superb episode (I'm sure there are more, but this is the one I remember): the Season 2 one with Neil Patrick Harris leading his "ex-gay" gathering. To anyone who hasn't seen it, I highly recommend it. In fact I think I'll go watch it now.

[Trini]

On 10/4/2016 at 0:12 PM, DisneyBoy said:

Did Star Trek have any gay characters? I feel like there might have been some coded ones in there but nothing is coming to mind. Sulu was written as straight, and Odo seemed interested in Troy's mother from what I remember. It just feels like the kind of franchise that would have been forward thinking about that sort of thing.

 

Edit: Wait - Jadzia Dax was bi on DS9, right?

Someone with more thorough knowledge of the shows may have to confirm, but I'm pretty sure the answer is 'No'. No regular or recurring characters that I can think of.

Odo was in love with Kira Nerys for much of the show's run.
Jadzia may not count, depending on your definition of "bi". She was part of an alien race that used symbionts to transfer memories/consciousness between hosts. She was a female host, but she also had previous hosts that were male. She would still have feelings for a previous host's significant other whether male or female. But as far as i can remember, Jadzia was always paired up romantically with men.

[SparedTurkey]

Quote

I grew to dislike Kurt and the story they were telling about him - though it was much much better in the first 13 episodes. And I really didn't like that his main adversary was a closeted gay teen. I thought that was the wrong message.

I completely agree with all of this. The problem with Glee was that the slightest bit of positive feedback and it turned into a super-serious 'drama' when it came to some gay kids and was farcical all the other times. If they had kept on with the way the show was written and heading from the first 13 episodes, it would have much more value. I liked Kurt in the first episode. Throwing his Prada bag at the football bullies before getting thrown in a skip and telling them one day they'd work for him - gold. Having him sainted for the next 5 seasons just for existing - not so much. To say nothing that in that show a gay man was worth so much more than a gay lady.

 

Quote

Maybe this is a controversial opinion, but I didn't particularly care for Will & Grace back in the day. Megan Mullally's character was awesome, but Jack irritated me to no end and I never really found Will entertaining or all that believable either. It felt like a straight guy playing a gay character, but everybody else seems to think the opposite.

I think the show is dated certainly. When rewatching it now, it comes across as straight out of the 90's - specifically the trans jokes, the gay man = girl jokes etc. The Vote For Clinton Revival special was exactly the same in that respect. But I think at the same time the continuing value of it lies in the fact it was made in the late 90's and did have 2 main characters being gay men. That was worth a lot back then. It was the time when gay characters were purely used as shock value or for sweeps or weren't allowed to be fully gay by their network (see Xena). It was also on a main network, while other shows like Queer as Folk and OZ were on cable and not viewable by the whole population (and more expensive for other countries to buy). It wasn't the best show, or the smartest or the best representation that could be asked for. But I think it was a bit of positivity when there was very little else going on and probably contributes a lot to the nostalgic 'this is a great show' sentiment. I will admit that I did like Karen and that I did also like Jack because he reminded me of a lot of people I grew up with.

That said - at the time, didn't the actor playing Will go to lengths to acknowledge in every media thing that he was a total straight dude? And he was totally just playing a role? Because that particular attitude does come through I agree with the OP - Kind of like the actor in Dawson's Creek who played Jack?

[Rinaldo]

3 hours ago, SparedTurkey said:

That said - at the time, didn't the actor playing Will go to lengths to acknowledge in every media thing that he was a total straight dude? And he was totally just playing a role? Because that particular attitude does come through I agree with the OP - Kind of like the actor in Dawson's Creek who played Jack?

I honestly don't remember anything like that from Eric McCormack, but I don't read a ton of publicity stuff and I may have missed something. Certainly he didn't behave at all like the odious Kerr Smith from Dawson in that respect. I have a vague memory where in interviews McCormack would acknowledge that he was a straight guy playing gay, but in an almost apologetic way, like he hoped that the gay community didn't resent this and hoped that he was getting it right. But it's been a while, and maybe I'm rose-coloring it. 

Also, it's good to remember that 1998, when it started, was really an eon ago in terms of public consciousness (and this show, whatever I might say against it, was one of the things that make this true). Sean Hayes (Jack) never publicly outed himself until 2010, four years after W&G ended. (Yes, it was one of those "everybody figured it out easily" situations, but that's kind of the point. That was how it worked then, and it was considered career suicide to publicly identify oneself as gay. Probably still is, in some acting circles.)

[galax-arena]

The Star Trek shows did not have any explicitly/unabashedly major LGBTQ characters afaik, which is why there was such a fuss made over a) the blink-and-you'll-miss-it revelation in the recent movie that Sulu has a husband and b) the news that the upcoming Star Trek show will have LGBTQ characters. IIRC, Gene Roddenberry would have liked to put gay characters on the show, but wasn't able to get away with it in the 60s. I suppose he was already pushing the envelope with a black woman and an Asian guy in the core ensemble. As far as the most recent shows go... yeah, Star Trek makes a big deal about its progressive future where that sort of thing shouldn't be a big deal, but it was still being written by people with a 90s mindset. (And I guess early 00s mindset, if we're taking the poor forgotten Star Trek: Enterprise into account lmao.) 

I say "unabashedly" because yeah I guess there was Jadzia but as Trini points out, a lot of that could be chalked up to "alien sexuality." It'll be nice if the new show has LGBTQ humans. 

[DisneyBoy]

I don't really remember Eric McCormack spouting off about how straight he was, but I didn't follow the show religiously so I could very well have missed something.

Quote

I saw characterization that veered all over the map depending on what a situation or plot called for (and this, I think, not the acting per se, was the problem with Will: Eric McCormack had be stuffy, loose, clingy, loner, queeny, corporate, whatever the script said, and no actor could tie it all into one person convincingly). 

Thank you - I think you hit the nail on the head. I couldn't pinpoint what it was about his character that didn't work for me and maybe that was it.

...and now that you have laid that out, I can't help but think of Jane Krakowski's character on Ally McBeal. Elaine was supposed to be this sex kitten with an almost predatory vibe, and yet she was also an inventor and shy and extremely unsuccessful in her romantic relationships to the point where the show never really gave her a serious boyfriend outside of John Ritter for one episode and later James LeGros for two or three. It was the strangest thing to watch the character constantly call herself a slut with pride only for the show to constantly treat her like a loser that no one wanted to be around, while still expecting her to be perky and happy. I know it's not the same situation, but I definitely think it's a case where there was no way to tie together everything that was written no matter how good the actor playing the role was.

Speaking of Ally McBeal, does anybody else remember the transgendered woman who appeared in the fourth season played by Lisa Edelstein? The show got a lot of mileage out of treating her pre-op status as a punchline, but then sort of doubled back to pretend she was accepted as a legitimate person. It was a really weird evolution and I couldn't tell whether their intention was to give positive representation to trans people, or to use them as yet another joke in a series that often made fun of outsiders mercilessly.

Nevertheless I liked her and thought she had chemistry with James LeGros. Imagine if the show had kept them together as a couple? (I'm always baffled when I remember the series aired on the Fox network.)

[possibilities]

I don't watch Supergirl (I tried a few times and gave up because I just don't enjoy the genre, not because of anything specific about the show itself), but I saw this and it made me grateful the show exists:

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2016/12/supergirl-comic-book-shop-clerk-saved-closeted-indiana-teen/

[Irlandesa]

USA just finished airing a ten episode series called Eyewitness that I think would be a good show to binge, especially if you want to shed the schmaltz of the holidays. It's based on a Norwegian show about two boys who witness a murder but don't come forward because one of them is afraid someone will find out what they were doing when they witnessed it.  I won't claim that it's great art but I found it to be a quite compelling thriller. 

And even though I wouldn't say I shipped the teen couple at the center of the show (although Twitter and Tumblr seem to have gone gaga for them), I really did like how they developed.  I didn't like them as individuals at times yet most of the decisions they made felt appropriate for their situation, even the problematic aspects, especially when it came to real fear and the fear of the story in your head about what would happen if the truth came out.

Spoiler

Plus, they both survive.  As a couple.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Irlandesa

[Featherhat]

On ‎06‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 5:36 PM, possibilities said:

I don't watch Supergirl (I tried a few times and gave up because I just don't enjoy the genre, not because of anything specific about the show itself), but I saw this and it made me grateful the show exists:

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2016/12/supergirl-comic-book-shop-clerk-saved-closeted-indiana-teen/

I hadn't seen this before and if it is true its great. I think they did rush things a bit with the storyline but CL has been great and many things have felt authentic from Alex finally realising why she really, really liked sleepovers with her best friend in highschool to Kara being shocked and upset that she had never even realised that her (human) sister was potentially going through some life changing stuff whilst always having to be focused on looking after her alien sister and their mother not making a big deal of it in any way.

I've also been extremely disappointed in how so many (maybe mostly male comic fans?) are handling it online. I know IMDb is a cesspool at the bets of times, but the number of threads about it and the level of vitriol actually stunned me. Then again there are also people who complain that we don't see any upskirt shots of Kara or that they should digitally enhance her breast, because comics.

[possibilities]

Is CBS handing down a suggestion that there be more male to male kissing, or is it a coincidence that both Colbert and Corden have been kissing their male guests (intensely) this week? They both make a big actorly deal about how hot it is (it's not just a greeting, they are drawing attention to it as a bit).

[Chaos Theory]

I am  not sure if this counts but I will put it out there.  Cassandra On TNT  The Librarians has always been written as ambiguously bisexual and last episode "The Eternal Question" she kissed a girl,  This is TNT and light drama so I doubt it will go further then that but several of her scenes have the men getting no traction with some hot women and Cassandra making headway where they can't. 

Edited January 13, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[maraleia]

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

Is CBS handing down a suggestion that there be more male to male kissing, or is it a coincidence that both Colbert and Corden have been kissing their male guests (intensely) this week? They both make a big actorly deal about how hot it is (it's not just a greeting, they are drawing attention to it as a bit).

It's a big screw you toward the right-wing portion of the country. Both Cobert and Corden hate Trump and the GOP leadership. That's my opinion btw.

One more thing...run don't walk to your netflix account and watch One Day at a Time. You'll love it.

Edited January 14, 2017 by maraleia

[possibilities]

I watched ODAAT when I was a kid, and I've been afraid to check out the remake, because I remember no details about the original except that at the time we all thought it was a terrific feminist statement. So if the new version is anything other than great, I will be sad.

[Kromm]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I watched ODAAT when I was a kid, and I've been afraid to check out the remake, because I remember no details about the original except that at the time we all thought it was a terrific feminist statement. So if the new version is anything other than great, I will be sad.

Virtually everyone who's seen it has praised it, so that should have some weight,  right? 

[BW Manilowe]

If you're a Gloria Estefan fan, she sings the theme song to the ODAAT reboot. And it's available on iTunes (& probably other legal music download sites). But if you're not a fan, don't let that keep you from watching the reboot; I've read a lot of good things about it.

Edited January 14, 2017 by BW Manilowe
To fix a misplaced parenthesis.

[joelene]

I've watched four episodes. I like it but don't love it. The laughtrack isn't helping. Is someone gonna come out as LGBT? Because so far it seems straight, unless I've missed something.

Edited January 15, 2017 by joelene

[paulvdb]

The storyline starts at episode 7 or 8. I don't remember the exact episode.

[ApathyMonger]

10 hours ago, joelene said:

I've watched four episodes. I like it but don't love it. The laughtrack isn't helping. Is someone gonna come out as LGBT? Because so far it seems straight, unless I've missed something.

Episode 7 is when the storyline starts, and then it's a major part of Episodes 10-13.

[ApathyMonger]

Not a huge surprise, but the most recent episode of Lucifer confirms that the lead character is bi. They did a montage where they had to interview a bunch of his past lovers, and they weren't all women.

[JustaPerson]

I went back and read the thread from the beginning and was surprised that no one mentioned Ian/Mickey from Shameless. Even when the show's quality dropped (pretty steeply and it was never the greatest to begin with) in season 5, their story was a highlight. I did read comments calling their relationship dysfunctional, but since it was Shameless where everyone is royally fucked up it made sense to me. Mickey's journey from self-loathing to being able to casually call himself Ian's boyfriend in 4 seasons was amazing to watch. Seeing straight-laced(ish) Ian have the neighborhood thug wrapped around his finger was never not great. Not to mention the whole exchange with his dad after he comes out (and his father predictably tries to kill him) is hilarious.

But I hated how the show ended up ending the relationship. I thought they deserved a much better break up than one they got. Awful. And don't get me started on the whole "Mickey escapes prison for Mexico" storyline in season 7. 

I sat through the entire first season (and like half of the second one) of How to Get Away with Murder for Conner/Oliver before they ruined that.

Edited February 24, 2017 by JustaPerson

[maraleia]

So this conversation was happening in the Race & Ethnicity thread about Jennifer Beals and it moved to her work on the L Word and we were talking about how bad the show was written. I mentioned how bad Pretty Little Liars is too because of I. Marlene (I never respond to my detractors on twitter) King. I hate that they are lesbians themselves because they give us a bad name.

What I still can't wrap my head around is why Showtime gave Ilene Fucking Chaiken full reign over the show when she had two other co-creators, Michele Abbot and Kathy Greenberg.

See this interview http://www.afterellen.com/tv/48158-l-word-co-creators-michele-abbott-and-kathy-greenberg-break-their-silence

I feel like there's even less representation of LGBTQ people on TV now than even two years ago and when it does happen it's often horribly written. WTF???

[Apprentice79]

2 hours ago, maraleia said:

So this conversation was happening in the Race & Ethnicity thread about Jennifer Beals and it moved to her work on the L Word and we were talking about how bad the show was written. I mentioned how bad Pretty Little Liars is too because of I. Marlene (I never respond to my detractors on twitter) King. I hate that they are lesbians themselves because they give us a bad name.

What I still can't wrap my head around is why Showtime gave Ilene Fucking Chaiken full reign over the show when she had two other co-creators, Michele Abbot and Kathy Greenberg.

See this interview http://www.afterellen.com/tv/48158-l-word-co-creators-michele-abbott-and-kathy-greenberg-break-their-silence

I feel like there's even less representation of LGBTQ people on TV now than even two years ago and when it does happen it's often horribly written. WTF???

Wow! I wished that they had remained on the show. Perhaps, they would have balanced Ilene's craziness..

[HunterHunted]

Right now Real Housewives of Atlanta is a disaster because Porsha Williams, who has preached about the evils of homosexuality and has had some same sex experiences, has decided to go scorched earth on Kandi Burruss about Kandi's own sexual history with women. Porsha first denied that she hit on Kandi, accused Kandi of being a closeted lesbian in a 7 year relationship with a woman, admitted that she hit on Kandi when Kandi presented text messages that corroborated Kandi's statement, and then accused Kandi of wanting to drug and rape her, meaning Porsha. It is some really sick shit.

Of the housewives franchises, New Jersey and Atlanta have the biggest issues with LGBT people and issues. Atlanta had a gay supporting cast member, Miss Lawrence, walk because of the tokenism and casual homophobia (calling people queen or the f word). They cast Amiyah Scott and I don't think she even filmed for 2 weeks before she left. And there is a contingent of viewers who feel like any deviation from heterosexuality is evil and deviant. It's really not pretty.

Edited March 9, 2017 by HunterHunted

[maraleia]

6 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Right now Real Housewives of Atlanta is a disaster because Porsha Williams, who has preached about the evils of homosexuality and has had some same sex experiences, has decided to go scorched earth on Kandi Burruss about Kandi's own sexual history with women. Porsha first denied that she hit on Kandi, accused Kandi of being a closeted lesbian in a 7 year relationship with a woman, admitted that she hit on Kandi when Kandi presented text messages that corroborated Kandi's statement, and then accused Kandi of wanting to drug and rape her, meaning Porsha. It is some really sick shit.

Of the housewives franchises, New Jersey and Atlanta have the biggest issues with LGBT people and issues. Atlanta had a gay supporting cast member, Miss Lawrence, walk because of the tokenism and casual homophobia (calling people queen or the f word). They cast Amiyah Scott and I don't think she even filmed for 2 weeks before she left. And there is a contingent of viewers who feel like any deviation from heterosexuality is evil and deviant. It's really not pretty.

The fact that a gay white man (Andy Cohen) produces this crap makes me stabby. This is why our community can't come together. We have a lot of horrible gay and lesbian white people in Hollywood producing garbage content.

[FormerMod-a1]

Doctor Who gets first openly gay companion

[Irlandesa]

On 10/6/2016 at 11:18 AM, DisneyBoy said:

I don't really remember Eric McCormack spouting off about how straight he was, but I didn't follow the show religiously so I could very well have missed something.

I don't recall him asserting his straightness either but I could see how his responses or things he talked about could seem that way.  I think the press did, and still does to some extent, marvel at a straight actor playing gay and would ask straight actors in a gay role about it all the time. Add in the normal talk of his wife on talk shows and it could seem like overkill. I don't know whether it was just a by-product of the questions he received or chasing after the admiration out there for straight actors in gay roles that didn't exist for gay guys in straight roles or gay playing gay. 

On to what I came here for---last week, Black Sails came to a close by possibly flipping a trope on its head depending on how one interprets a scene in the end.

Spoiler

If taken literally, they unburied one of their gays.  But there's enough uncertainty about how "real" what we saw was and so perhaps the did bury another gay.

What I found disheartening around the net (I know...don't read the comments) was how ruffled people's feathers still are about the revelation in season 2 that the love of their badass pirate's life was a man.  And how they see it as agenda-driven while I think it was a rather ingenious way to raise the stakes to create this one-man crusader against England.  In properties geared towards men, these are the kind of responses preventing more gay representation.

I also just finished a series on Netflix called Crashing (not the HBO series).  It's from the UK and written and created by the same woman who wrote and created Fleabag. I really hope there is a second series of this show (although it looks unlikely since it came out a year ago with no renewal) because I'm curious about how they're going to write the saga of Fred and Sam.  For those who haven't seen the show, it's about a bunch of people who live in an abandoned hospital as part of some kind of guardianship thing. One of the storylines involves Fred, a gay man, and Sam, a womanizer, who become friends over the course of a party.  Over the six episodes, they showed Sam as increasingly possessive and jealous of Fred's relationship with another man.  Given that his sexual interest was clearly with women, I was wondering if they were  really going to tell the story of a straight man falling for his best friend.  Towards the end, they hinted that Sam may be a frustrated and closeted homosexual but that was mostly from an outside perspective.  I'd be curious to see, if they follow through with the relationship, whether Sam would consider himself an overcompensating closeted gay man, bi or if it'd be a story of a mostly straight man who falls in love with his best friend. I kept expecting the show to have him have a surprise hookup with an engaged women as the last episode twist but they did maintain the through line of the Fred & Sam relationship which was, due to Sam being a dick, complicated at times.

[DearEvette]

The "Thanksgiving" episode of Master Of None is an account of the character Denise's long coming out process to her family.  It is also somewhat autobiographical because the actress who plays Denise wrote the episode.  It is hands down my favorite episode of the season.  And Here is a nice article about the episode (a little spoilery)   but gives a lot of good information about its conception.

[giovannif7]

I am ridiculously excited for this - it ALMOST makes up for the cancellation of Sense8:

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/armistead-maupins-tales-of-the-city-netflix-laura-linney-new-series-1202481062/

[Snipsa]

On 2017-4-10 at 0:37 AM, Irlandesa said:

 

I also just finished a series on Netflix called Crashing (not the HBO series).  It's from the UK and written and created by the same woman who wrote and created Fleabag. I really hope there is a second series of this show (although it looks unlikely since it came out a year ago with no renewal) because I'm curious about how they're going to write the saga of Fred and Sam.  For those who haven't seen the show, it's about a bunch of people who live in an abandoned hospital as part of some kind of guardianship thing. One of the storylines involves Fred, a gay man, and Sam, a womanizer, who become friends over the course of a party.  Over the six episodes, they showed Sam as increasingly possessive and jealous of Fred's relationship with another man.  Given that his sexual interest was clearly with women, I was wondering if they were  really going to tell the story of a straight man falling for his best friend.  Towards the end, they hinted that Sam may be a frustrated and closeted homosexual but that was mostly from an outside perspective.  I'd be curious to see, if they follow through with the relationship, whether Sam would consider himself an overcompensating closeted gay man, bi or if it'd be a story of a mostly straight man who falls in love with his best friend. I kept expecting the show to have him have a surprise hookup with an engaged women as the last episode twist but they did maintain the through line of the Fred & Sam relationship which was, due to Sam being a dick, complicated at times.

I binged this show a couple of weeks ago, and I would love a second season for this exact  reason.

 

 

I never completely bought the "best friends" aspect, as Sam apparently didn't even know Fred's name in that first episode.  I believe Sam is a closeted bi/gay man, whom has over compensated his entire life, because of fear of being rejected by society as a whole.

 

 

None of the characters in that show can be described as stable, but Sam especially seemed to have deep rooted abandonment issues and came across as severely depressed when he allowed his vulnerable side to show...

[Bruinsfan]

On 10/6/2016 at 8:19 AM, Rinaldo said:

I honestly don't remember anything like that from Eric McCormack, but I don't read a ton of publicity stuff and I may have missed something. Certainly he didn't behave at all like the odious Kerr Smith from Dawson in that respect. I have a vague memory where in interviews McCormack would acknowledge that he was a straight guy playing gay, but in an almost apologetic way, like he hoped that the gay community didn't resent this and hoped that he was getting it right. But it's been a while, and maybe I'm rose-coloring it. 

Also, it's good to remember that 1998, when it started, was really an eon ago in terms of public consciousness (and this show, whatever I might say against it, was one of the things that make this true). Sean Hayes (Jack) never publicly outed himself until 2010, four years after W&G ended. (Yes, it was one of those "everybody figured it out easily" situations, but that's kind of the point. That was how it worked then, and it was considered career suicide to publicly identify oneself as gay. Probably still is, in some acting circles.)

If I remember correctly, McCormack himself wasn't responsible for bringing that up in interviews, it was more a standard question from interviewers. And he, like Debra Messing and Megan Mullally, was great about publicly supporting LGBT civil rights, appearing at charity events, and so forth. Meanwhile Hayes scurried away like a roach under a kitchen light any time the press tried to speak to him about LGBT issues or the significance of his character, all the while doing a minstrel show performance featuring just about every negative stereotype there is about gay people. And years later when he finally admitted what everyone already knew he had the nerve to be upset that gay media had dared try to interview him at the height of his stardom and wasn't appropriately grateful for his so-called contributions to the community (which he did everything in his power for years to avoid any association with):

Quote

“I am who I am. I was never in, as they say. Never.”

Quote

"I feel like I’ve contributed monumentally to the success of the gay movement in America, and if anyone wants to argue that, I’m open to it. You’re welcome, Advocate."

Edited June 30, 2017 by Bruinsfan

[HunterHunted]

Bryan Fuller just outted Thomas Dekker by talking about that truncated Heroes storyline where Dekker's character would reveal to Claire that he was gay. Fuller indicated that the actor is gay and that the actor's management put a stop the storyline. Dekker confirmed the story and revealed that he's married.

http://www.vulture.com/2017/07/heroes-actor-thomas-dekker-comes-out-as-gay-and-married.html

[galax-arena]

I've seen some debate over whether Fuller assumed that Dekker was out already or not. I don't know what the hell's going on on that front, so I won't talk about the ethics of outing. Instead I'll say congrats, Dekker. I remember him from The Secret Circle (yeah, yeah... I know... lmao). 

[JBC344]

Silly me, I thought Thomas Dekkar was "out" already.  Maybe it was my gaydar. 

This also brings up a bigger issue that I have in the gay community (my community btw) especially with how it relates to Hollywood.  The question of "what is coming out" mean in relation to your personal and professional life. 

Personally I would of assumed that anyone who is married is "out".  But it always seem like the media and many others don't think you are out until you make an announcement or it is picked up publicly.

But then there are those "open secrets" in relation to Hollywood men who in the confines of Los Angeles live their lives as gay men but publicly the rest of the world is under the impression that they are straight; Thomas Dekkar, Matt Bomer, Jussie Smollett, Kevin Spacey, etc.  I know that Matt and Jussie have publicly come out, but before then both were in relationships and in Matt's case married to his husband with kids.

I know in my own personal life I've dealt with that conundrum on a much smaller personal scale.  I've had people in my life assume that I was in the closet because I'm not flamboyant and/or they haven't seen me kiss a man.  I can't tell you the countless times I've had people say, "Oh I didn't know you were gay, you never talk about guys" to which I respond "You've never heard me talk about women either but that didn't stop you from thinking I was straight."  Now personally I'm a private person and unless I'm in a relationship I don't tend to necessarily talk about my dating life with the average person.  That somehow gets construed to others as "in the closet".

[Rinaldo]

57 minutes ago, JBC344 said:

But it always seem like the media and many others don't think you are out until you make an announcement or it is picked up publicly.

As you're saying in the course of your comment, the word has different meaning according to context, along a continuum. But I'd say it's true that the last stage for a public figure is making the public announcement. (And there have by now even been humorous articles -- which are at the same time sympathetic to the situation -- about what has by now, interestingly, become a standard procedure for accomplishing this. Like, where do you first send your press release, and how exactly do you time it, and how do you achieve that offhand "it's important but it's not" tone.) Because you're right, there are plenty of examples of individuals who are well known in their profession to have a spouse and children, but it's still not public until they say so in print. 

[JBC344]

5 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

As you're saying in the course of your comment, the word has different meaning according to context, along a continuum. But I'd say it's true that the last stage for a public figure is making the public announcement. (And there have by now even been humorous articles -- which are at the same time sympathetic to the situation -- about what has by now, interestingly, become a standard procedure for accomplishing this. Like, where do you first send your press release, and how exactly do you time it, and how do you achieve that offhand "it's important but it's not" tone.) Because you're right, there are plenty of examples of individuals who are well known in their profession to have a spouse and children, but it's still not public until they say so in print. 

I guess my point is more that there are some of us who are perceived as being "in the closet" because "everyone" doesn't for whatever reason know that we are gay.  It's more the adage that "Just because you don't know something doesn't mean its a secret."  It's also an unfair balance with straight actors.  If a straight actor doesn't want to talk about their personal life because they believe in keeping that side of their life private as a public figure that seems to be respected more so than not.  When a gay person expresses the same ideal, it is often looked at as they are trying to hide their sexuality or keep things quiet.  Don't get me wrong a lot of people especially gay male actors are in fear but I do believe there is a difference.

I guess it is more for me personally I feel that I sometimes am robbed of being a "private person" without the fear of being labeled in the closet.  I have no issues with my sexuality or showing up in public with a man I am dating but I'm not the type to openly talk about my relationships.  And for the record when I dated women back in the day I didn't have a desire to talk about them either.

[Rinaldo]

37 minutes ago, JBC344 said:

I guess it is more for me personally I feel that I sometimes am robbed of being a "private person" without the fear of being labeled in the closet. 

I actually understand and agree with this thoroughly. I feel much the same as a university professor (single, so there's no partner to bring up in conversation). I'm not a secret to faculty or students (assuming that students do as good a job of passing along the gossip as my friends and I did when we were students), but it just doesn't come up in my teaching, or in committee work.