S03.E01: The World We Seize/S03.E02: The Last Unicorns

[RandomWatcher]

Wow, a lot of, as Twitter put it, Shtako happened tonight.

[mustbekarma]

From TVLine,

As seen in this exclusive sneak peek from the Syfy series’ two-hour Season 3 premiere (airing Friday at 8/7c), not long after Nolan (played by Grant Bowler) and his daughter Irisa (Stephanie Leonidas) are (mysteriously) rescued from the pods they were sealed in at the close of Season 2, they and Amanda (Julie Benz) discover a fresh batch of out-of-this-world weirdness happening at the mine.

 

 

I think after watching the premiere, I need to watch Steel Magnolias or Terms of Endearment to cheer myself up.

 

The carnage in this episode is unbelievable. None of the right people died, which made it even more cheerful.

 

Note to mod: I could not figure out how to get two numbers in the episode title. Technically, this was episodes 1 and 2.

Edited June 13, 2015 by mustbekarma

[Scarlett45]

RIP Rafe and Christie. I did like seeing Daytak and Stahma working together as a team. This way Pilar is still out there but they aren't saddled with baby plots.

[mustbekarma]

But in order for that to happen, we had to lose Rafe and Christie. I was OK with Quentin dying, because he's a dumbass. Besides, I just wanted to hear one person tell Grandma if that she hadn't kidnapped them in the first place, none of the other events would have happened. It's Pilar's fault.

 

I'm not sure I want to watch this show anymore. There better be some glorious comeuppance in the next episode to make up for this.

[formerlyfreedom]

In the Season 3 premiere, Nolan and Irisa are mysteriously rescued from their underground confinement just in time to discover that enemy forces are marching on the town of Defiance.

[johntfs]

I'm pretty sure that the Shithammer of Stahma will eventually fall onto the General and Pilar.  I loved Irisa snorting in disgust at Nolan apparently flirting with the Omec girl.  Just that silent "Goddammit dad" was great.  Still like Nolan being utterly pitiless when his little baby (killing machine) girl is threatened.

[mjc570]

while I'm not sure if I really liked these episodes (in fact they made me wonder why I liked this show so much), I'm glad they got rid of the whole McCawley family story line. I assume Linda Hamilton has other things to do, so we won't be treated to her and the baby traveling around endlessly.

I've always liked Amanda's willingness to do the hard things her job requires, but I really felt for Doc Yewell - what a gross personal invasion. I guess this a good news/bad news kind of development - the good news is that doc won't be leaving, the bad news is that she is only staying to get revenge.

What were those pods at the end - the Dread Harvest? If so, why so many for only 2 Omec?

Edited June 13, 2015 by mjc570

[Chaos Theory]

Well damn! There goes an entire family line. Well Pilar is left but my guess is that it will be Sweet innocent Alak who will kill her.

I am think maybe it would have been smart to kill the Omec.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[ramble]

Well humph. I'm unsure how I feel right now. The McCawley family is down to a Crazy Mama & Baby Bundle. I was enjoying Rafe working with the Tarrs & Christie had potential as a mini-Stahma. Still that didn't make me nearly as angry as the attack on Doc Yewell. I found that horrific, with an almost rape-like feel to it. If I were her I would want to skin a patch off each of those involved, slowly & with no drugs involved. I also hope Irisa gets her gumption back relatively soon. Pacifist Irisa will get old quickly. I did like the mirroring of the new Purple People Eater aliens father/daughter relationship with Nolan & Irisa. Their relationship has always been my favorite part of this show.

[HunterHunted]

But in order for that to happen, we had to lose Rafe and Christie. I was OK with Quentin dying, because he's a dumbass. Besides, I just wanted to hear one person tell Grandma if that she hadn't kidnapped them in the first place, none of the other events would have happened. It's Pilar's fault.

 

I'm not sure I want to watch this show anymore. There better be some glorious comeuppance in the next episode to make up for this.

I was OK with Quentin and Christie dying. Quentin was a dumbass and Christie was mostly boring, but Rafe...he was always awesome. I wished Alak had told Pilar that all of this was her damn fault. Everyone would still be alive if they had stayed in Defiance. But Pilar, only an extremely narcissistic individual would think that she could keep her child, her child's spouse, and her grandchild prisoner and think they would be thankful.

I normally love Lee Tergessan, but I'm not loving him in this. There is something about his energy that doesn't seem to fit. His performance feels off tonally.

[mustbekarma]

I did like the mirroring of the new Purple People Eater aliens father/daughter relationship with Nolan & Irisa.

The Omec should have had one eye, though. They also needed a horn. And I am so calling them Purple People Eaters.

 

Wait a damn minute.  The second episode was called The Last Unicorn. Someone was trying to be clever.

[thuganomics85]

Damn, they pretty much wiped out the entire McCawley family, didn't they?  Never would have predicted that Pilar would be the last one standing.  I actually wasn't too surprised over Rafe, because even though he is awesome and Graham Greene is a regular, I figured he was one of those characters destined for a "surprise death."  But I was surprised about Christie, because she got a lot of material last season, and I figured they would continue her bizarre relationship with the Tarrs.

 

So, it looks like Datak and Stahma are going to be forced to work for the VC and this General Rahm Tak, due to him kidnapping Alak. Sucks for Alak, but I'm glad this means that Datak and Stahma won't be broken up, because they are at their best together. I'm guessing they will play along at first, but I have to think they will try something eventually.  The Tarrs get dangerous, whenever someone in their family gets threatened.

 

That said, I'm pretty sure it will be these Omec guys, who end up being the big problem by the end of the season.  They are clearly up to something, and any species that has all the other ones putting aside their feuds and differences to be all "Kill those guys!", must have earned that reputation.  And now there is a ship full of them.  Oh, boy!

 

Seven months have passed, until Nolan and Irisa are freed.  Amanda is mayor again, Berlin is now the peacekeeper, and Defiance's population has been shot to hell, thanks to the winter.  Yewll's still around, but after the events in this episode, I'm not sure she's going to be in a nice mood this season.  I'm sure she pretty much hates all of them at this point.

 

Noticed that Anna Hopkins is now a regular, so I guess Berlin is here to stay.  I do hope they'll have her do more then just hate on Irisa.

 

 

I normally love Lee Tergessan, but I'm not loving him in this. There is something about his energy that doesn't seem to fit. His performance feels off tonally.

I normally like him a lot too, but I think I understand.  He just seemed... I don't know, too theatrical at times.  I don't know; this show can be campy at times, but I do think there is a line.  For example, Tony Curran and Jaime Murray can be real flashy in their roles, but I feel like they know how to skirt around the line, to make it enjoyable.  With Lee, I felt like he was just bombastic and a bit silly.  I hope he'll tone in down as the season progresses. 

Edited June 13, 2015 by thuganomics85

[Makenna]

They basically exterminated the entire McCawley family in one go because you know Pilar is about to be dead.

 

Loved the Omec!!! They look awesome and I find them to be very interesting. Their relationship is Irisa and Nolan to a tee. Nolan would definitely be pulling that same shit if Irisa was in danger (short of killing an innocent person/kid, I think).

 

I hope Nolan's and Amanda's relationship continues to be a little frosty but I think this episode will probably be the extent to which they are at odds, so to speak.

 

Super pissed that Pottinger seems to have been written off the show without Amanda ever finding out about all the shit he pulled and yet at the same time I'm pissed that he abandoned Defiance after he FINALLY got the girl, after all the shit he pulled. LOL!!!

 

Overall I really liked the episode. If anything I just wish we could have gotten some more sappy moments between Irisa and Nolan. Y'know a hug or something. They are my babies. Although we did get a ton of "kiddo"s and protective daddy!Nolan so I guess that will have to hold me over until next week :)

[BungalowSummer]

I'd trade Pilar and the baby for Rafe. The misery and decimation of the McCawley family is now complete. In many ways, the murders of Rafe, Christie and even stupid Quentin take the world of Defiance permanently past Old Earth. The Earth before the Votans had been slowly dying, but was still recognizable in places. Rafe and his family were the last connection with Old St. Louis and with all of them now gone, the changeover is largely complete.

You can't accuse this show of allowing the plot to drag. There are many promising season storylines possible after tonight's events.

I'll echo those here who like the mirror of Nolan and Irisa in the Omec father and daughter. I wonder what Daddy Omec will say if his daughter decides she'd like another taste of Nolan.

One last bit: saw a closeup of the cover art for "Amazing Goddess of the Badlands," the trashy Irisa novel, and the author is Mordecai Halpern! That must be Kai, Irisa's lost Kaziri soulmate. Even though this season is looking to be very dark, I'd love for Kai to show up occasionally to lighten the mood.

Edited June 13, 2015 by BungalowSummer

[CletusMusashi]

Please tell me Graham Greene was quitting the show anyway, so they had no choice but to accept it and decided send him out with a bang. Because if killing him off was by choice, then I need to break into the writer's room and bust some heads up. It felt to me like they were trying to do a Red Wedding, built the difference between theirs and Thrones' is that the actual Red Wedding did not kill off Rafe MacCawley.

Strange how little I care about Christie. One second after her death, I wasn't thinking "Oh my god! They killed Christie! You bastards!" I was thinking about how Stahma felt about it. That's probably a sign that one character is more compelling than the other.

[shapeshifter]

Seeing Rafe for the first time in many months, I was struck by how having an indigenous American playing a Scottish land owner sort of made up for all the white guys who played people of color on film well past the mid point of the twentieth century. But then they slaughtered all of the McCauleys, and, no, Pilar is not one of them--she is only one by marriage. Even the cardboard cutout son's assassination was made tragic by Rafe's wails of rage and mourning. Oy.

As much as I detest rapidly ageing babies in scifi, I would be delighted to have the baby reappear looking like his grandpa. Would it be offensive to have Graham Greene in white face?

...Still that didn't make me nearly as angry as the attack on Doc Yewell. I found that horrific, with an almost rape-like feel to it. If I were her I would want to skin a patch off each of those involved, slowly & with no drugs involved...

Yes, but let's not forget that last season we learned that Doc was previously a type of Joseph Mengele (Nazi doctor who did horrific experiments on Jews), so Doc Yewell's own torture kind of serves to give her a clean slate--or make her a raging sociopath. We shall see.

I did love the song at the end. And it was nice that they gave both the costume designer and Bear McCreary prominent credit up front.

And kudos again to Linda Hamilton for looking real.

Was the character of Rahm Tak in any way named after Chicago Mayor Rahm Emmanuel, who, when he worked on Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C. was known as "Rahmbo" because of his aggressive style of communication?

Please tell me Graham Greene was quitting the show anyway, so they had no choice but to accept it and decided send him out with a bang...

So it would appear: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001295/?ref_=tt_cl_t4

...I'll echo those here who like the mirror of Nolan and Irisa in the Omec father and daughter...

Eh, a little too neat and not-earned for me. Edited June 13, 2015 by shapeshifter

[GaT]

I'd trade Pilar and the baby for Rafe. The misery and decimation of the McCawley family is now complete. In many ways, the murders of Rafe, Christie and even stupid Quentin take the world of Defiance permanently past Old Earth. The Earth before the Votans had been slowly dying, but was still recognizable in places. Rafe and his family were the last connection with Old St. Louis and with all of them now gone, the changeover is largely complete.

 

I agree, & I don't like it. I thought the show was supposed to be about how the aliens & the earth people got along in this town, but now it seems like this show is just about aliens living on earth. They even destroyed the mines, the major earthling owned business. The only major players who aren't aliens are Nolan, Amanda, Berlin, & Pilar (who I hope dies soon), & now they've brought another alien race in. I don't want to watch an "aliens on earth show"

[AlliMo]

I'm a bit sad to see Christie go, if only because of the potential she was showing under Stahma's influence. It may have seemed like Stahma chose Datak over Christie, but I thought it was pretty clear that Christie knew she was dead no matter what and offered herself up in hopes of saving her son.

 

I should feel sorry for Doc Yewll, but I find it difficult in light of all the blood on her own hands.

 

I like the addition of the Omec. It throws the whole interplay between the current species completely off and I'm interested to see how it plays it.

Edited June 13, 2015 by AlliMo

[snowblossom2]

I'm a bit sad to see Christie go, if only because of the potential she was showing under Stahma's influence. It may have seemed like Stahma chose Datak over Christie, but I thought it was pretty clear that Christie knew she was dead no matter what and offered herself up in hopes of saving her son.

 

I should feel sorry for Doc Yewll, but I find it difficult in light of all the blood on her own hands.

 

I like the addition of the Omec. It throws the whole interplay between the current species completely off and I'm interested to see how it plays it.

I thought it was clear that Stahma, after she heard the baby, shot Christie in order to save her grandson. She seemed conflicted before that

[shapeshifter]

When the daughter purple people eater first bared her fangs, my first reaction was, "Vampires from space?" and my second was to laugh because I had recently seen a rerun of the Bones episode in which an old VHS video is found that shows Dr. Saroyan (Tamara Taylor) acting in a low-budget B movie when she was in college titled, "Invasion of the Mother Suckers." Does that make me a bad person?

[johntfs]

I thought it was clear that Stahma, after she heard the baby, shot Christie in order to save her grandson. She seemed conflicted before that

 

I don't know about conflicted.  Stahma looked like she was going to try to gut the General herself.  I think she still will.  Just slower and with a lot more pain.

 

 

When the daughter purple people eater first bared her fangs, my first reaction was, "Vampires from space?" and my second was to laugh because I had recently seen a rerun of the Bones episode in which an old VHS video is found that shows Dr. Saroyan (Tamara Taylor) acting in a low-budget B movie when she was in college titled, "Invasion of the Mother Suckers." Does that make me a bad person?

 

Yes, but only because you have admitted to watching "Bones" of your own free will.

Edited June 13, 2015 by johntfs

[madfortv]

The characters are interesting and I keep hoping for better from this show. I taped it and was able to catch a few scenes. It was enough for me to conclude the quality of the show has dropped even further so I will delete it and never think of this show again. I'll be surprised if it is renewed again. It is trash.

[Chaos Theory]

I think Rafe and Chrisies deaths are sad but their really wasn't much the show could do with them anymore especially with the many kidnapping and hostage plots the show is going with.

My guess is that the first half of the season will be all about Alak who has always been more human then alien and the effect being a prisoner of the V.C has on him. He will either double down on human or dig deep and find the inner crazy that is his parents.

I do feel sorry for Yewll no one deserves that especially after she agreed to stay when her first instinct was to leave. I wouldn't blame her if she left now.

Amanda has gotten cold. I kinda like it but it's going to bite her in the ass.

[GenieinTX]

I really thought for sure that Stahma only shallowly cut Christie and after they left Christie would get up and get the baby.   I'm shocked at that death, and that they had Stahma do it.  The whole show was one big WTF.  McCauley extermination, sexy space vampires, the taking of Doc's skin, etc.  I still don't know how I feel about it all.

[shapeshifter]

I really thought for sure that Stahma only shallowly cut Christie and after they left Christie would get up and get the baby. I'm shocked at that death, and that they had Stahma do it. The whole show was one big WTF. McCauley extermination, sexy space vampires, the taking of Doc's skin, etc. I still don't know how I feel about it all.

That was pretty much how I felt about it too. Plus, everytime they referred to the Votan Collective as the enemy "VC," I was unpleasantly distracted wondering if one of the writers was doing that on purpose because that's the way the North Vietnamese (Viet Cong) were referred to during the Vietnam war, or were all the writers too young and just clueless to how that sounds to those old enough to recognize it as such? Edited June 13, 2015 by shapeshifter

[ottoDbusdriver]

Stahma looked like she was going to try to gut the General herself.  I think she still will.  Just slower and with a lot more pain.

 

Datak definitely wants to kill Rahm, but Stahma will do it slowly and make him suffer for what he made her do. If Rahm touches her grandchild, Stahma will probably go full on berserker.

 

I should feel sorry for Doc Yewll, but I find it difficult in light of all the blood on her own hands.

 

Do Yewll probably killed thousands of humans in her experiments during the Pale Wars, so being made to pay for that with a proverbial pound of flesh is a small price.  Don't get me wrong, it still wasn't pleasant but it will apparently regrow.

 

I like the addition of the Omec. It throws the whole interplay between the current species completely off and I'm interested to see how it plays it.

 

I'm curious where the Omec got a ship -- since they were apparently extinct when the other 7 races left the Votanis system.  Because having the only functioning ship in orbit is kind of a big deal at this point.

 

They basically exterminated the entire McCawley family in one go because you know Pilar is about to be dead.

 

Count me in as surprised that they killed off all 3 McCawleys.  I liked Rafe, but without the rest of his family and his livelihood gone, I'm not sure what he would do.

 

Defiance's population has been shot to hell, thanks to the winter.

 

The one thing I really like about this episode was the snow -- real snow, not some bullshit soundstage fake snow.

 

I really liked the cover of "You're My Best Friend" at the end.

 

One last bit: saw a closeup of the cover art for "Amazing Goddess of the Badlands," the trashy Irisa novel, and the author is Mordecai Halpern! That must be Kai, Irisa's lost Kaziri soulmate.

 

That cover is so trashy, but I like the fact that Irisa is holding a blade -- because that is her signature weapon.  Mordecai Haipern is definitely Cai so I guess he has broadened his horizons from legal matters.  Looking closer at that book cover, I wonder who the guy in the hat holding the gun is supposed to be.

[SimoneS]

I feel like i am watching a completely different show. The McCawleys get slaughtered. I liked Rafe and Christi a lot and will miss them. Also, I get abruptly ending a story, but what is the resolution of the ship killing and replicating people? Pottinger is gone just like that? I find it hard to believe that a man as obsessed as he was with Amanda would just walk away from her. However, it is always good to see Lees Tergesen so I look forward to him as this season's villain. As much as I like her, I cannot empathize with the doctor. taking her skin was only a little bit of the karma that she deserves for her war crimes. I hope that Alak saves his son from his lunatic grandmother and then run for the hills away his horrible parents.

Edited June 13, 2015 by SimoneS

[wanderingstar]

Loved the Omec!!!

 

 

Me, too!

 

What I didn't love was losing Rafe and Christie. I liked both characters a lot. Didn't mind seeing Quentin go, though.

 

I am curious to see how Doc Yewell will get her revenge. 

[AlwaysWatching]

I really liked the cover of "You're My Best Friend" at the end. OttoDbusdriver

 

 

Wasn't that beautiful? Gave me goose bumps.  Didn't really care for the show, though.  I don't know why I watch Defiance.  Oh, probably Jaime Murray.  It was surprising to see how many people they killed off.  I just assumed they were house cleaning to go a new direction. The Omec were interesting and I'm a sucker for spaceship stuff, so, I will probably continue to tune in.

[CletusMusashi]

So, when Purple Princess decided to eat Nolan, was that a sexual preference, as he himself assumes? Or was it just an "I don't know... this one's okay, but we had Irathient last week. Let's see what the new species tastes like?"

Also, I'm curious what other things Indogenes were gentically engineered for. "Hey, Doc, we're all out of triple-A batteries. Got a spare toe?"

[johntfs]

As far as the show. I liked it when T'evgin did his "Blah! I will destroy you all!" speech and he saw Amanda and Nolan react with "Are ya done yet?" It was interesting to watch him suddenly process the two sides of the humans regarding the Omec as just another bunch of alien. On the one hand, the humans aren't going to roll over and show their bellies when the Omec arrive. On the other hand, humans aren't as likely to form crazy-scared lynch mobs either.

[Latverian Diplomat]

Still like Nolan being utterly pitiless when his little baby (killing machine) girl is threatened.

I thought shooting that last Casti guy (the bookseller) was out of character for Nolan. Or perhaps just what I want is character to be, which is more shrewd and less thug. And I realize that Irisa may have record setting PTSD, but I am going to get tired of her freaking out about every act of violence, especially since Nolan also seems too dumb to pick up on that and stop sending her out on flanking maneuvers.

 

What were those pods at the end - the Dread Harvest? If so, why so many for only 2 Omec?

They were full of more Omecs -- the cover story about refueling their ship so they find more of their people is a lie. Their ship is the Omec Ark. But apparently, it takes less power to keep everyone in stasis for a little while longer than to start reviving people, On a side note, the little flying bot watching over the pods reminded me of 343 Guilty Spark, from Halo.

 

Please tell me Graham Greene was quitting the show anyway, so they had no choice but to accept it and decided send him out with a bang. 

 

Strange how little I care about Christie. 

I think Graham Greene is a great actor, but Rafe was never that interesting to me. I thought Christie's exploration of Casti culture was really interesting. I also like characters coming the other direction, like Alak and the bookseller (RIP). Without characters like that, there's a lot of biological determinism in this show (you are what your species is) and the Omecs are just the latest example of that (a whole species that's evil). The Omecs also reminded me a little of the Wraiths from Stargate Atlantis, and the Atavus from Earth Final Conflict. But  T'evgin saved it because he showed intelligence and some self control, which was refreshing.

 

I thought it was clear that Stahma, after she heard the baby, shot Christie in order to save her grandson. She seemed conflicted before that

Just to nitpick (sorry) she saw the baby and stabbed Christie. I would have been fine with Stahma sussing that the baby was hidden there and the looks exchanged with Christie enough of a mutual agreement that Christie was willing to give her life to save the baby. But I guess they needed to make it a little more obvious, so Stahma sees something the VC guys don't. We the audience hear the baby cry right after everyone leaves, to validate Christie's sacrifice.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Latverian Diplomat

[raven]

 

I liked Rafe and Christi a lot and will miss them.

I did as well and thought there were potential stories there - the Rafe/Datak/Stahma hunt waylaid by the Collective, possibly Rafe would escape and what then for all of them kind of thing, if they made it back to Defiance there's the loss of the mines, the Omecs arriving, etc.  I would have liked to see Alak & Christie trying to raise the baby with pulls from both families.  Even with their problems, I did see love with Alak/Christie and enjoyed the dynamic of Christie being more forceful than him.  Quentin was least developed but I was shocked when he was killed; kudos to the show for using that to lull me into a false sense of security for the other characters. Poor Rafe dying and realizing that all his children died too.  I liked the McCawley family contrasted with the Tarrs and now that dynamic is gone.  We just have Pilar and the baby who are not terribly interesting on their own IMO.

 

I was also surprised at the lack of thuggish badassery we usually get from Datak and put that down to worrying about the family.  Nothing about Stahma surprises me and I loved watching her play at being subservient to the General and still being tough and telling Datak to make her a weapon.  She is fierce, especially protecting her family so I'm not surprised she does what it takes.

 

Though Nolan and Irisa were both pretty spry after hibernating or whatever for 7 months.  They're still my favorite relationship on this show; Irisa's exasperation at Nolan flirting with the Omec, hee.  Irisa being on the cover of a trashy novel was pretty funny too. So someone can print books around there, who knew.

 

Even with what she's done in the past, the skinning of Doc Yewll was pretty shocking.  Everyone's toughened up - Amanda shooting the robber in BOTH legs and giving the order to hold down the Doctor were both "oh shit" moments for me.  What's to stop the Omec from harvesting more?  He said her skin had many benefits to them.

 

Not sure what to think about the Omec.  The pair had no real reason to save Nolan and Irisa but they did; left them out in the snow but could have just let them die on the ship, unless the father Omec lied about that. Then the father told Nolan the lie that he wanted to kill them but the daughter was against it.  I suppose he was trying to make her appear more sympathetic since he knew they had her somewhere.

 

Annnd down go both son and the bookseller.  Yeah the kids were taunting the Omec but I had to agree with Doc Yewll's "I told you so".  Is it because of the gulanite that Nolan/Amanda were so sympathetic about her (the Omec) but so callous about everyone else?  OK, you can't just string people up but there's no consequences for the daughter's rage killing?  They both acted inconsistently I thought. 

 

 

I thought shooting that last Casti guy (the bookseller) was out of character for Nolan.

 

The bookseller was approaching Irisa and still had the weapon in his hand after Nolan told him to throw it down; I figured especially given Irisa's recent behavior, Nolan wasn't taking any chances.

 

An uneven and all over the place premiere but I'm curious to see what happens next.

[CletusMusashi]

I agree, Christie had some interesting stories. That's why I'm surprised by little I cared about her when she dies, as opposed to how other characters felt about it. I don't even think the actress is bad. I think she's just overshadowed by better ones.

 

About the "power to take everyone of stasis" thing, I think the power issue is less about fuel and more about status. The PPE don't seem like the friendliest of cultures. I assume that they indulge in a lot of fighting and dueling and sudden Klingon-style promotions. If you want to stay in a position of power with people like that, you need them to like having you in charge. "Hey, guys? I wasn't able to talk the new food-species into sharing their gulanite with me. 'Cause they kidnapped my daughter. So can you go and kick all their asses for me?" would probably invite a lot of challenges. But: "I have landed our ship successfully and ordered the new food-species to refuel it for us. Now let's go out there and harvest!" would probably come across a lot better.

 

And, one minor, random question... why don't the VC have something like modern handcuffs? That humungous-keyholed antique that Rafe was chained up with wouldn't even have been a great lock two hundred years ago.

Edited June 14, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[mjc570]

Latverian Diplomat:  Thanks for the clarification.  I was watching under less than ideal (or even minimally acceptable) conditions, and missed a lot. 

Edited June 14, 2015 by mjc570

[snowblossom2]

I thought shooting that last Casti guy (the bookseller) was out of character for Nolan. Or perhaps just what I want is character to be, which is more shrewd and less thug. And I realize that Irisa may have record setting PTSD, but I am going to get tired of her freaking out about every act of violence, especially since Nolan also seems too dumb to pick up on that and stop sending her out on flanking maneuvers.

 

They were full of more Omecs -- the cover story about refueling their ship so they find more of their people is a lie. Their ship is the Omec Ark. But apparently, it takes less power to keep everyone in stasis for a little while longer than to start reviving people, On a side note, the little flying bot watching over the pods reminded me of 343 Guilty Spark, from Halo.

 

I think Graham Greene is a great actor, but Rafe was never that interesting to me. I thought Christie's exploration of Casti culture was really interesting. I also like characters coming the other direction, like Alak and the bookseller (RIP). Without characters like that, there's a lot of biological determinism in this show (you are what your species is) and the Omecs are just the latest example of that (a whole species that's evil). The Omecs also reminded me a little of the Wraiths from Stargate Atlantis, and the Atavus from Earth Final Conflict. But  T'evgin saved it because he showed intelligence and some self control, which was refreshing.

 

Just to nitpick (sorry) she saw the baby and stabbed Christie. I would have been fine with Stahma sussing that the baby was hidden there and the looks exchanged with Christie enough of a mutual agreement that Christie was willing to give her life to save the baby. But I guess they needed to make it a little more obvious, so Stahma sees something the VC guys don't. We the audience hear the baby cry right after everyone leaves, to validate Christie's sacrifice.

Yes, you're right, thanks for the clarification. Don't know why I said shot?

[Latverian Diplomat]

 

 

The bookseller was approaching Irisa and still had the weapon in his hand after Nolan told him to throw it down; I figured especially given Irisa's recent behavior, Nolan wasn't taking any chances.

 

Yeah, I heard Nolan say that. I still think he misread the situation, and Irisa was right to be pissed. And if he can't handle Irisa risking her own life to try and save someone else, he shouldn't be sending her out to confront him in the first place.

 

Nolan used to know how to defuse situations. Of course he's not lawkeeper anymore.

Yes, you're right, thanks for the clarification. Don't know why I said shot?

So many character deaths, one needs a scorecard to keep track :-)

[raven]

 

I still think he misread the situation, and Irisa was right to be pissed.

 

Nolan was watching from the rear and and the guy still had his weapon up and Nolan couldn't see his expression. If someone's got the drop on you and you don't really want to kill someone, you should drop your weapon. I don't think the guy was a killer but Irisa didn't look confident or in control of the situation either; Nolan's not one to take that chance.   Nolan does screw up but I found this particular scene in character for him, with enough ambiguity to set up the beginning of a rift with Irisa.   YMMV. 

Edited June 14, 2015 by raven

[johntfs]

Yeah, I heard Nolan say that. I still think he misread the situation, and Irisa was right to be pissed. And if he can't handle Irisa risking her own life to try and save someone else, he shouldn't be sending her out to confront him in the first place.

 

Nolan used to know how to defuse situations. Of course he's not lawkeeper anymore.

So many character deaths, one needs a scorecard to keep track :-)

 

Nolan still knows how to defuse situations.  However, he figured that it was safer for Irisa to shoot that particular bomb instead of trying to defuse and potentially getting her killed.  The only reasons Berlin escaped with her life after beating Irisa was that Irisa's injuries weren't life-threatening and she used to share Nolan's bed.  Even so, if Berlin had tried to take a final swing at Irisa, Nolan would have shot her right there.

 

Some speculation for later.  General Rham Tak mentioned studying and living in New York for a time.  Perhaps he might turn out to be Amanda's rapist.  Maybe Stahma and Amanda can bond over butchering The Beast.

[jhlipton]

It is trash.

 

No, that would be Amazon Goddess of the Badlands (could a title be more perfect?).  I think that's Nolan (a minor character in this novel) in the background, I think

 

 were all the writers too young and just clueless to how that sounds to those old enough to recognize it as such?

 

This, I think.  I'm of an age to remember the Viet Cong (I turned 18 the year they dropped the college deferment -- if I wasn't 4F, I probably would have been shipped out), and hearing it  when referring to the Voltan Collective pings a bit but not loudly.  It may be different for someone who was in 'Nam, though.

 

I thought Nolan was totally in character for shooting the bookseller -- and that he would have shot him no matter what.  I said last season that Nolan is a bully who decides who's innocent and who's guilty and hands out punishment accordingly.  His relation with Irisa is fun, but in everything he could be replaced by a judgemental block of wood (and a not-pleasant to look at one, at that).  He's long been my least favorite character and I loathe that he's the star.

 

I don't really understand what Rafe's plan was.  Shoot everybody until he gets to the center of the room, then freeze until the rest of the VC come in and shoot him to pieces?  It would have made more sense for him to take out the soldiers in front and quietly work his way in.  As a result of his dumb plan, he really didn't accomplish anything.

[johntfs]

I loved the way the show went a little out of its way to settle the Votanis Collective / Earth Republic good guy bad guy dymanic.  Yes, the E-rup can be ruthless and unfair, but the VC came rolling in murdering people and eating ears.

[Vandy10]

Well that was probably the most brutal hour of SyFy since BSG. Yeesh.

[Zaku]

How the heck these people still have a currency-based economy!?! They are a step away from a Mad Max-style anarchy! Who does guarantee for the value of this money?!?

Edited June 14, 2015 by Zaku

[Chicago Redshirt]

I appreciate that the show wants to take the series in a new direction. But some of this just doesn't make sense.

 

From the beginning of the show, the Earth Republic wanted to take control of Defiance because of the ample stores of gulanite near the town. In fact, last season, the Earth Republic did take control of Defiance for that reason. But somehow, in the past seven months, the E-Rep has decided to pull up stakes completely? I could see with the destruction of New York, the E-Rep might be disorganized. But it seems to me like the energy source would make the town much more important. Especially if it is within potential striking distance of a VC army. Not to mention, that someone would want to investigate the weapon that blew up two major cities and originated from there.

 

But the mine has been shut down because somehow the ground by it has become some new sort of element. Assuming the McGuffin from last season somehow closed every entrance to the mines and covered the ground above them with adamantium, why not slant-drill one's way to the mines?

 

OK, so the folks of Defiance somehow do not think of these things to the point that their own gulanite supply has dwindled down to nothing. But then they learn of a way into the mines, thanks to looking after Nolan and Irisa's reappearing. And they learn of a race that is apparently feared by all Voltans, thought to be extincted, referred to as "devils" and "enchanters." So they decide to make a deal with them? First off, it seems like a bad idea in general. But second, what exactly do they need the Omec for once they know there is a way in and out of the mines? The Omec have equipment they are using to extract the gulanite, true. But what is stopping the Defiance residents from either using the equipment that had been sealed in the mines, or bringing in new equipment?

I appreciate that the show wants to take the series in a new direction. But some of this just doesn't make sense.

 

From the beginning of the show, the Earth Republic wanted to take control of Defiance because of the ample stores of gulanite near the town. In fact, last season, the Earth Republic did take control of Defiance for that reason. But somehow, in the past seven months, the E-Rep has decided to pull up stakes completely? I could see with the destruction of New York, the E-Rep might be disorganized. But it seems to me like the energy source would make the town much more important. Especially if it is within potential striking distance of a VC army. Not to mention, that someone would want to investigate the weapon that blew up two major cities and originated from there.

 

But the mine has been shut down because somehow the ground by it has become some new sort of element. Assuming the McGuffin from last season somehow closed every entrance to the mines and covered the ground above them with adamantium, why not slant-drill one's way to the mines?

 

OK, so the folks of Defiance somehow do not think of these things to the point that their own gulanite supply has dwindled down to nothing. But then they learn of a way into the mines, thanks to looking after Nolan and Irisa's reappearing. And they learn of a race that is apparently feared by all Voltans, thought to be extincted, referred to as "devils" and "enchanters." So they decide to make a deal with them? First off, it seems like a bad idea in general. But second, what exactly do they need the Omec for once they know there is a way in and out of the mines? The Omec have equipment they are using to extract the gulanite, true. But what is stopping the Defiance residents from either using the equipment that had been sealed in the mines, or bringing in new equipment?

[GaT]

How the heck these people still have a currency-based economy!?! They are a step away from a Mad Max-style anarchy! Who does guarantee for the value of this money?!?

I think it's kind of like Bitcoin, somebody just says it's worth money, & everyone believes them.

[xaxat]

Between Tommy and the McCawleys, the show has killed off all of the human POCs. 

 

I'm out.

[Christina]

Amanda said that they didn't have any equipment to get through the surface and to the gulanite, but the Omec's did. I took it to mean they had tried all options available on earth, but nothing could get through the top earth portion. After Nolan and Irisa appeared, and they knew they could get in, they learned the Omec's had a spaceship. I think the show is going to go into the new technology and knowledge they can bring.

 

I'm not too happy with the killing off of the McCauley's either, but I'm not giving up yet. The story of how Christie was raising a mixed-race child in Defiance was interesting to me, and I liked that Christie (human) was learning about the Casti (alien) culture with us. I also liked that they hired an actor who was from the Six Nations Tribe. He, of course, is an excellent actor who could and can get any job in the field, I just like seeing native actors on screen, especially when they are not playing a stereotypical character in a western. I even watched Longmire because he was on it.

 

Regarding the money, on one season, the E-Rep with 2 husbands had a scene where she wouldn't give up the script she was carrying to save one of them. I always assumed that the funds were guaranteed by them. 

Edited June 14, 2015 by Christina

[Shanna Marie]

I don't think I'm all that keen about the new direction. I liked the original direction just fine, the idea of this town that had become a kind of melting pot and was trying to get by in a crazy new world. There was enough conflict to not require some massive big bad, and now we have two Big Bads.

 

Funny, after the pilot I was kind of rolling my eyes at the obvious Romeo and Juliet story, but now I hate to see them veer away from Christie and Alak's story.

 

It's weird that they wrote Pottinger out like that, after him finally getting Amanda in the closing montage of the last season, while she still didn't know everything he'd done. As obsessed as he was, there's no way he would have just left town. That was more the kind of antagonist I found interesting -- not an outright enemy, but doing some awful stuff and some good stuff, and you couldn't know where you stood. I'm far less interested in the fleet full of purple people eaters.

[SmithW6079]

So, space vampires who are analogous to ISIS and establishment of a modern caliphate?

That was quite the bloodbath.

I noticed they have really toned down the white make-up of the Castis (at least for Stahma).

Edited June 14, 2015 by SmithW6079

[Chicago Redshirt]

Amanda said that they didn't have any equipment to get through the surface and to the gulanite, but the Omec's did. I took it to mean they had tried all options available on earth, but nothing could get through the top earth portion. After Nolan and Irisa appeared, and they knew they could get in, they learned the Omec's had a spaceship. I think the show is going to go into the new technology and knowledge they can bring.

 

I understand what they were trying to say, but let me try to better establish why it doesn't make sense.

 

Let's say the McGuffin turned an area of 100 sq. kilometers above the mines into admantium. It seems to me that there's no reason a new shaft can't be dug 102 kilometers out to gain access to the mines and all the equipment in them.

 

We basically know that there is a way to get into the mines without special technology, because Amanda, Irisa and Nolan found their way in there. So why can't they go in and resume mining operations through whatever means they got access to the mines in the first place?

 

Even assuming that the Omec have McGuffin 2.0 that lets them get access to the mines and mine gulanite and that for some reason accessing the mine the way Amanda, Irisa and Nolan did wouldn't work for industrial purposes, why trust the Omec? Why not just kill them and take the tech? Or at least, why make this a 50-50 bargain as a starting point?