The NBA

[Growsonwalls]

4 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I went out to get pizza and the Pro Bowl was on and I came home to a press conference where an official guy said nine people died but they are not releasing ANY names, so where did the first news come from that it was Kobe?  I am so confused.

It was confirmed hours ago by CNN, Sports Illustrated, NYTimes, etc that Kobe and his daughter were traveling in the helicopter. Many NBA legends from Shaq to Kareem confirmed the news immediately, and they wouldn't tweet fake news like that. 

Edited January 26, 2020 by Growsonwalls

[Ohwell]

At first I heard it was five people who were on the helicopter, now I'm hearing it's nine, so it is confusing.  

[doodlebug]

4 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

At first I heard it was five people who were on the helicopter, now I'm hearing it's nine, so it is confusing.  

The initial reports, that 5 people were killed, came from various media outlets.  However, shortly after 5 PM, a county official gave a press conference and stated that there were 9 people on the helicopter and no survivors.

He also stated that he would not identify any of the victims by name out of respect for their families.  The bodies hadn't been removed from the wreckage yet and the coroner would be doing the official ID.  He mentioned how horrifying it must be for someone to learn of a loved one's death on TMZ.  Obviously, the horse Is already out of the barn, but I understand his POV.  I would presume he may also have been in touch with the various families and they didn't want names released right now.

Edited January 26, 2020 by doodlebug

[roamyn]

The NBA first broke the news abt Gianna, and they would not release that w/o permission of Vanessa or Kobe’s agent.  So I’d say that’s confirmation right there.

If there were nine people on board, I wonder if that means four children, four parents and the pilot?

[mojoween]

NBA retirees and various media feel like today’s games should have been cancelled, and I don’t necessarily disagree, but since they ARE playing them, these 24 second violations are wrecking me.

[Growsonwalls]

My cousin's son (a minor) died this past November and the local news wanted to run a report of it. My cousin (his dad) had to sign a release to allow his name to be used. So if there's confirmation of Gianna being among those in the wreckage then I assume Vanessa Bryant confirmed it and allowed the news to be released.

[Magog]

8 minutes ago, mojoween said:

NBA retirees and various media feel like today’s games should have been cancelled, and I don’t necessarily disagree, but since they ARE playing them, these 24 second violations are wrecking me.

I appreciate that the NBA teams are paying tribute & showing respect for Kobe by running down the shot clock (24 seconds) to start the game.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Magog

[Was-MArsenault]

11 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

The initial reports, that 5 people were killed, came from various media outlets.  However, shortly after 5 PM, a county official gave a press conference and stated that there were 9 people on the helicopter and no survivors.

He also stated that he would not identify any of the victims by name out of respect for their families.  The bodies hadn't been removed from the wreckage yet and the coroner would be doing the official ID.  He mentioned how horrifying it must be for someone to learn of a loved one's death on TMZ.  Obviously, the horse Is already out of the barn, but I understand his POV.  I would presume he may also have been in touch with the various families and they didn't want names released right now.

I wonder if they'll be releasing all of the victim's names soon.

[Ohwell]

Miss you already Mamba.

[Was-MArsenault]

I think that the games should've been canceled.

[truthaboutluv]

15 minutes ago, roamyn said:

The NBA first broke the news abt Gianna, and they would not release that w/o permission of Vanessa or Kobe’s agent.  So I’d say that’s confirmation right there.

If there were nine people on board, I wonder if that means four children, four parents and the pilot?

Possible. A friend of Kobe's who was speaking to CNN by phone, let it slip that there was a friend of Gianna's on board, because he was mentioning how devastating it was for that family. The interviewer did not press him on that, probably owing to the procedure of confirming the identities, especially of minors, before publicly reporting it. 

One of the news reports I was watching also semi-confirmed a little league coach who I think worked with Kobe. Apparently the Orange County organization he worked for were the ones who confirmed that he was on the helicopter. 

[Was-MArsenault]

3 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Possible. A friend of Kobe's who was speaking to CNN by phone, let it slip that there was a friend of Gianna's on board, because he was mentioning how devastating it was for that family. The interviewer did not press him on that, probably owing to the procedure of confirming the identities, especially of minors, before publicly reporting it. 

One of the news reports I was watching also semi-confirmed a little league coach who I think worked with Kobe. Apparently the Orange County organization he worked for were the ones who confirmed that he was on the helicopter. 

It was John Altobelli, a baseball coach at Orange Coast College.

[Jx223]

I am so sorry to hear this news about Kobe, his beautiful daughter and the other people that lost their lives. This is such devastating news and my heart goes out to his and their families.

[Artsda]

This is just heartbreaking. He was such an icon. 

It just doesn't feel real.

Edited January 27, 2020 by Artsda

[Calvada]

Just from casual glances at Twitter, it seems rumors are floating around about who was on the helicopter in addition to Kobe.  All of his children, another former NBA player, etc.  It reminds me of when Payne Stewart was killed in a plane crash (what a horrible day that was) and it came out afterwards that there had been a rumor it was Tiger Woods' plane.  Imagine if Twitter had been around then, since of course no news organization reported that rumor as they scrambled to figure out who was on the plane.  Today parents have lost children, children have lost a parent, at least one person has lost a spouse, so why make it worse by tweeting rumors?   

[Was-MArsenault]

4 minutes ago, Calvada said:

Just from casual glances at Twitter, it seems rumors are floating around about who was on the helicopter in addition to Kobe.  All of his children, another former NBA player, etc.  It reminds me of when Payne Stewart was killed in a plane crash (what a horrible day that was) and it came out afterwards that there had been a rumor it was Tiger Woods' plane.  Imagine if Twitter had been around then, since of course no news organization reported that rumor as they scrambled to figure out who was on the plane.  Today parents have lost children, children have lost a parent, at least one person has lost a spouse, so why make it worse by tweeting rumors?   

It is kind of confusing about who died.

[LexieLily]

Now I am hearing that TMZ or one of the earliest sites to break the news broke the story before anyone had gotten to tell Vanessa. If that is true, how horrible to find out on the internet that your husband and daughter were dead.

[Was-MArsenault]

20 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Now I am hearing that TMZ or one of the earliest sites to break the news broke the story before anyone had gotten to tell Vanessa. If that is true, how horrible to find out on the internet that your husband and daughter were dead.

I'm not handling this news very well either.

[twoods]

I keep crying just seeing all the tributes, the players and coaches reacting (including Tim Duncan which gutted me) and now the tribute at the Grammys. Listening to Boys II Men and then panning on his retired jersey at Staples Center gutted me. I know he wasn’t perfect but he was a big part of the LA sports scene and my teen years, and it’s hard to forget what he did for the Lakers.

[Jx223]

28 minutes ago, twoods said:

I keep crying just seeing all the tributes, the players and coaches reacting (including Tim Duncan which gutted me) and now the tribute at the Grammys. Listening to Boys II Men and then panning on his retired jersey at Staples Center gutted me. I know he wasn’t perfect but he was a big part of the LA sports scene and my teen years, and it’s hard to forget what he did for the Lakers.

Seeing the tributes and just seeing all of the picture/videos shown of him and daughter has really got to me. Gianna really was a lot like him, not only did she look like him, she seemed to have his natural basketball abilities and love for the game. This news is very awful and also very surreal.

I didn't root for Kobe's Lakers when I was younger, I rooted against them. His and Shaq's Lakers were very dominant when I was younger and was really started to fall in love with basketball. They beat teams  I cared about in the NBA finals, including my Indiana Pacers and also the 76ers (which was my youngest sister's favorite team at the time, Her favorite player was Allen Iverson back then.) I wanted Kobe/Shaq and the Lakers to lose and didn't like when they three peated. (I didn't soften towards the Lakers until after both Shaq and Kobe were gone from the team). 

But I always knew how talented they were and ended up really appreciating that and what they contributed to the game of basketball. Kobe had a great basketball mind and he was very intelligent in general. And he also reached out to try and mentor some of the younger players. Including Kyrie Irving and others. 

This is just one of those losses that just really hurts. Of course because of his wife losing a husband/child, his other children losing a father and a sibling and other people losing family members.  And also for those of us that love basketball and also people that love sports in general and appreciate great athletes. We did lose one of the greatest basketball players ever today. And it's the type of loss that is very hurtful to a lot of people and that people are going to really remember.

Edited January 27, 2020 by Jx223

[Court]

This loss is hitting me really hard. Once they confirmed his daughter died as well, I've been struggling all day. I think it's  because Kobe is near my age and his daughter is the same age as my oldest. He was a very big part of my childhood. I never rooted for the Lakers or him but I respect him. I especially respect that he seems to be such an involved father. 

The other victims they identified are Coach Altobelli, his wife and his daughter. He's survived by his 29 year old son and 15 year old daughter. Absolutely gut wrenching. 

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/college-baseball-coach-john-altobelli-010251368.html

This has the most details I've seen.

[mojoween]

Seeing the picture online of the coach and his wife and their three kids, finding out that his wife and daughter also died in the crash so two of those children are now on their own, was devastatingly sad.

Hubie Brown was the perfect person to be broadcasting ESPN’s marquee game today.

[Darknight]

Why does TMZ have to leak everything? They are very rude. Imagine finding out via TMZ your loved one died and pictures are all over the place. 

[movingtargetgal]

5 hours ago, Ashforth said:

So I'll be the turd in the punchbowl. All of the news is about how great and wonderful Kobe was. Sure, he was a phenomenally talented athlete and apparently supported good causes. But he was also, in my opinion, a rapist who got a pass, in part because of his fame, and in part because women who have the courage to report rape are routinely dismissed as liars. In this case, she was vilified as a greedy, lying opportunist who was probably mentally ill. She was a nineteen year old who was raped by a man who likely felt entitled to do what he wanted because hey, he was a superstar.

This is how I feel about all the tributes to Kobe.  He was a great basketball player and a horrible human being.  

[mojoween]

One of the ESPN tributes said that “Kobe Bryant was LeBron before LeBron” and that is just incredibly shitty and stupid copy.  

[absnow54]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I understand it, but I don't like how the rest of the people who died who weren't related to Kobe weren't factored into the coverage that I saw.  How are their deaths any less important?

The LA County officials couldn’t even confirm Kobe’s death as of yesterday evening. How were the other victims supposed to be reported? Their next of kin should be the first to know. Not strangers on the internet. I’m sure the names will be released in the coming days, as is the case with most reported tragedies that don’t have a famous person on board. 

Edited January 27, 2020 by absnow54

[truthaboutluv]

2 hours ago, mojoween said:

One of the ESPN tributes said that “Kobe Bryant was LeBron before LeBron” and that is just incredibly shitty and stupid copy.  

While it may have been phrased awkwardly, I think I understand what they were saying. To my knowledge (more die-hard basketball fans can correct me if I'm wrong), Kobe was the first truly high profile player to go from high school, straight to the NBA, versus going the college route. And of course years later, LeBron did the same. So I think that may be what they were trying to say. 

58 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

The LA County officials couldn’t even confirm Kobe’s death as of yesterday evening. How were the other victims supposed to be reported? Their next of kin should be the first to know. Not strangers on the internet. I’m sure the names will be released in the coming days, as is the case with most reported tragedies that don’t have a famous person on board. 

This. Outside of Kobe and his daughter, none of the other victims' identities have been officially confirmed and it would be very irresponsible for people to go around online making claims and throwing out names. Hell the LA County official sounded pissed off enough about TMZ reporting about Kobe before they'd even gotten on the scene. 

[xaxat]

In Manhattan there is a subway stop at 42nd Street Bryant Park. It now reads,

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by xaxat

[Was-MArsenault]

48 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

While it may have been phrased awkwardly, I think I understand what they were saying. To my knowledge (more die-hard basketball fans can correct me if I'm wrong), Kobe was the first truly high profile player to go from high school, straight to the NBA, versus going the college route. And of course years later, LeBron did the same. So I think that may be what they were trying to say. 

This. Outside of Kobe and his daughter, none of the other victims' identities have been officially confirmed and it would be very irresponsible for people to go around online making claims and throwing out names. Hell the LA County official sounded pissed off enough about TMZ reporting about Kobe before they'd even gotten on the scene. 

All 9 of them have now been confirmed.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kobe-bryant-helicopter-crash-victims-identified-john-altobelli-keri-altobelli-alyssa-altobelli-christina-mauser/

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

While it may have been phrased awkwardly, I think I understand what they were saying. To my knowledge (more die-hard basketball fans can correct me if I'm wrong), Kobe was the first truly high profile player to go from high school, straight to the NBA, versus going the college route. And of course years later, LeBron did the same. So I think that may be what they were trying to say. . 

Two words: Moses Malone.  Kobe was decidedly NOT the first big star to enter directly from high school.

It would be nice, if somewhere in all of the flowery tributes, someone would mention the fact that Kobe himself admitted to sexual assault and had charges dismissed because the young woman refused to testify; most likely due to receiving a large payment from him.  It seems that, in the last few years, Kobe became very involved in amateur sports, especially for girls, and that is commendable; but it is not the whole story.

Edited January 27, 2020 by doodlebug

[Court]

The ESPN tribute did mention the allegations briefly. 

When TMZ reported the story yesterday, I was skeptical because no other media outlets were reporting it. If Vanessa found out on her phone before the deputies could notify her, that is disgusting. I believe this is true and it infuriates me. Have enough respect for her and all the other families before reporting. I cannot imagine finding out my husband and daughter died from a news story. 

 

[doodlebug]

7 minutes ago, Court said:

The ESPN tribute did mention the allegations briefly. 

When TMZ reported the story yesterday, I was skeptical because no other media outlets were reporting it. If Vanessa found out on her phone before the deputies could notify her, that is disgusting. I believe this is true and it infuriates me. Have enough respect for her and all the other families before reporting. I cannot imagine finding out my husband and daughter died from a news story. 

 

Not to defend TMZ, but, if they knew Bryant was on board, they perhaps assumed that the sheriff's department had notified Vanessa pretty quickly and she would already be aware.  Of course, there were others on the helicopter and their families, upon hearing Bryant was in the crash, would probably have realized at the same moment that their loved one was also there.  For me, it is the families of the non-Bryant victims who would've been hurt the most by the quick reporting by TMZ. 

The national news had the story less than 2 hours after the crash, though, and that is pretty quick for a tragedy of this sort.

[mojoween]

Golic and Wingo have mentioned Kobe’s past many times this morning.

They have also been advised that they can release that there were three teenage girls on the helicopter, and I’m overwhelmed thinking of the ripple effect the loss of these nine lives will have.  Just think alone of that travel team and all those young teammates.

[Crs97]

37 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Two words: Karl Malone

Do you mean Moses Malone?  He, too, was drafted out of high school in 1974 and played in the ABA till it merged with the NBA.

I am so sad for the Altobelli family.  Just a brother and sister left.

[Was-MArsenault]

10 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Golic and Wingo have mentioned Kobe’s past many times this morning.

They have also been advised that they can release that there were three teenage girls on the helicopter, and I’m overwhelmed thinking of the ripple effect the loss of these nine lives will have.  Just think alone of that travel team and all those young teammates.

How do you know that there were three teenage girls?

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

Do you mean Moses Malone?  He, too, was drafted out of high school in 1974 and played in the ABA till it merged with the NBA.

I am so sad for the Altobelli family.  Just a brother and sister left.

Ooops!  You're right, wrong Malone.  But he certainly was a star in the pros well before Kobe's time.  I corrected my post.

[DrSpaceman73]

21 hours ago, xaxat said:

There's only been a handful of times when I have been truly shocked about news in sports. Magic announcing he was HIV positive, OJ and the Bronco chase and now this.

Len Bias too. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Didn't Garnett come straight from high school too?

[Minneapple]

5 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

While it may have been phrased awkwardly, I think I understand what they were saying. To my knowledge (more die-hard basketball fans can correct me if I'm wrong), Kobe was the first truly high profile player to go from high school, straight to the NBA, versus going the college route. And of course years later, LeBron did the same. So I think that may be what they were trying to say. 

Kevin Garnett was drafted a year before Kobe, I think. But nobody was a superstar in high school like LeBron was a superstar. He was on the cover of Sports Illustrated when he was 16. When LeBron's high school team traveled anywhere (and they traveled all around the country playing nationally ranked teams), there was a crowd of 20,000 people waiting to see him. 

Anyway, the thing that bothers me with celebrity deaths like this is that there is a rush to lionize the person who has passed away -- not just for their work, but for them as a human being. No, Kobe was not a saint. He was a human being who happened to be great at basketball. But why should we be surprised that people gloss over the rape allegation? Just a couple weeks ago, Jim Brown, who has been accused of violence by multiple women, was brought up on stage and given a big award at the college football championship game. We all shrug and move on. OJ murdered his wife but he's a twitter celebrity nowadays. And on and on and on. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I think ESPN aired LeBron's high school games too. I was just saying Garnett did all right for himself. 

I don't like the lionizing either, but I'm not going to immediately tear him down when it's less than 24 hours after his death either. To be fair, the news I've read/heard has all included the assault. On one of the NPR reports this morning, they did discuss it and the reporter remarked that his involvement with the daughter and support of women's sports might have been his way of seeking redemption and now he doesn't get that chance. Not that he automatically gets a pass, but in the ensuing 4 decades, assuming he would have lived to 80, a lot could have happened. 

[LexieLily]

ESPN is re-airing Kobe's last game tonight at, I believe, 9/8 c.

[twoods]

Nobody is glossing over the alleged rape. In every single article I’ve seen (ESPN, NY times, SI, etc) there was a paragraph about his checkered past. It’s in the third or fourth paragraph, not in the first paragraph since they are talking about his death. I don’t know if anyone thinks he is perfect, but people are allowed to grieve for a player that they grew up watching. It took me years to forgive him for what he did to his wife and that woman, but I am still allowed to feel upset about the first sports figure I cared about passing away. 

It seems as once he had his daughters and they were growing up, he changed. He was a big advocate for the WNBA and women’s college basketball, and does a lot for the poor children and homeless population in LA. Lakers fans were expecting to mourn for Kareem, Magic, and Jerry West first. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by twoods

[Court]

17 minutes ago, twoods said:

Nobody is glossing over the alleged rape. I’m every single article I’ve seen (ESPN, NY times, SI, etc) there was a paragraph about his checkered past. It’s in the third or fourth paragraph, not in the first paragraph since they are talking about his death. I don’t anyone thinks he is perfect, but people are allowed to grieve for a player that they grew up watching. It took me years to forgive him for what he did to his wife and that woman, but I am still allowed to feel upset about the first sports figure I cared about passing away. 

It seems as once he had his daughters and they were growing up, he changed. He was a big advocate for the WNBA and women’s college basketball, and does a lot for the poor children and homeless population in LA. Lakers fans were expecting to mourn for Kareem, Magic, and Jerry West first. 

Very well said. I'm also just heartbroken for all the families. 

[Magog]

Tomorrow night's game between the Lakers-Clippers has just been postponed.

[Was-MArsenault]

14 hours ago, LexieLily said:

ESPN is re-airing Kobe's last game tonight at, I believe, 9/8 c.

NBA TV is showing an interview with Kobe later on this morning, and Showtime is airing one of his final interviews this evening.

[Was-MArsenault]

From ESPN:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28579323/nike-suspends-online-sale-kobe-bryant-related-products?platform=amp

Edited January 28, 2020 by MikaelaArsenault

[Jx223]

The TNT Pregame show tonight that honored Kobe was very touching. It featured the TNT crew plus Dwyane Wade, Reggie Miller and Jerry West talking about him. You could see how much they especially Jerry West and Shaq loved him. And they told some interesting stories about him.

Including one from Jerry West where he said that Kobe almost signed with the Clippers and he told him not to, largely because Donald Sterling was the owner of the team at that time. You could see how much Kobe meant to Jerry and Shaq and the others as well. (Even though some of them didn't know him as well).

One thing that I think is very interesting is that Kobe interacted affected multiple generations, because of his relationships with different players from different times. And because he played in the league as long as he did.

He's had relationships/rivalries/connection to and with various players. Including Jerry West, Shaq, MJ, LeBron, Reggie Miller and even younger players like D'Angelo Russell. He really did have a large impact on the game and his influence is widespread throughout it.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Jx223

[twoods]

Thank you for the update. I saw Jerry West tearing up and I had to walk out of the room. It’s crazy how many generations he has inspired, and the younger players seem to be taking it very hard since he took so many of them under his wing when he was in the late stages of retirement. Even all the football players, women basketball players, baseball and soccer players he inspired is amazing. Reading what Jeter wrote about him and Neymar do a little tribute when he scored was touching. I didn’t realize how many people he kept in touch with and gave advice to. 

[Dejana]

 

[SoCal Mema]

On 1/27/2020 at 1:35 PM, twoods said:

Nobody is glossing over the alleged rape. In every single article I’ve seen (ESPN, NY times, SI, etc) there was a paragraph about his checkered past. It’s in the third or fourth paragraph, not in the first paragraph since they are talking about his death. I don’t know if anyone thinks he is perfect, but people are allowed to grieve for a player that they grew up watching. It took me years to forgive him for what he did to his wife and that woman, but I am still allowed to feel upset about the first sports figure I cared about passing away. 

It seems as once he had his daughters and they were growing up, he changed. He was a big advocate for the WNBA and women’s college basketball, and does a lot for the poor children and homeless population in LA. Lakers fans were expecting to mourn for Kareem, Magic, and Jerry West first. 

This is 100% a great post.  There is a time to grieve and a time to analyze his legacy.  One of the things that strikes me about Kobe was his ability to learn from what he did wrong and try to do better.  He knew he could never erase the pain and wrong-ness of his behavior, but he did more than say he was sorry and do nothing.  He turned it into activisim, put his words into action, and there are not a lot of people that are able to do that these days with things that have happened.  He was no saint.  Nobody is.  But the conversations about his death, grief, his daughters can appropriately be done now and the other side will certainly be discussed and not sugar-coated in the days ahead.