The NBA

[DoctorAtomic]

That wouldn't surprise me. 

[Fukui San]

If I had to bet on which Dream Teamer most objected to Isaiah Thomas being on the team, I would say Larry Bird. He can hold a grudge.

Of course it's amazing that the coach of the Dream Team was Chuck Daly.

 

[Growsonwalls]

Magic Johnson on the whole thing. He now totally denies that he blackballed Isiah, but he does say that back then they weren't friends, and now they are.

The first video confirms that there was tension between IT and Magic, Michael, Larry, and Scottie but Magic is upset that people are seeing Isiah as the "bad guy" in The Last Dance.

In the second video Magic talks about John Stockton and ;... he's kind of mean about him. Whoa.

 

[xaxat]

36 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Magic is upset that people are seeing Isiah as the "bad guy" in The Last Dance.

I got other reasons for seeing Isiah as the bad guy.

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, Fukui San said:

If I had to bet on which Dream Teamer most objected to Isaiah Thomas being on the team, I would say Larry Bird. He can hold a grudge.

And Jordan isn't going to say anything if that is true. 

32 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

The first video confirms that there was tension between IT and Magic, Michael, Larry, and Scottie but Magic is upset that people are seeing Isiah as the "bad guy" in The Last Dance.

Thomas' Pistons teams were literally called the 'bad boys', so he doesn't have too much to stand on. 

I don't see this as that complicated a situation. Like I said last night when I was watching, the Chicago guy pointed out that Thomas stirred up shit with several of the players. That was still kind of fresh. In assembling the first Dream Team, marketing was just as much a factor as it was playing the game because everyone knew they'd slaughter everyone. Why deal with all that potential bullshit? You don't really see that nowadays since so many players have known either other from all the camps when they were in HS.

12 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Hmm while it was rarer for athletes to speak out about social issues back then it wasn't unheard of. Kareem Abdul Jabbar was/is very outspoken and is also an excellent writer and movie critic. Magic Johnson endorsed a bunch of Democratic candidates. Gregg Popovich has always been very politically outspoken and he's a very old-school era NBA coach. Reggie Miller was/is pretty outspoken too as is of course Steve Kerr who was part of that Bulls dynasty. 

I'd say Jabbar was still a different era though. And there wasn't anything like Jordan's global impact before, despite Jabbar being a titan of the game. He wasn't always the smoothest either; I understand he was really prickly with the media. Jordan was the first player that was a brand. The agent in E5 said so himself. So there's going to be just another echelon of people wanting a piece of him. 

I absolutely love Pop and if I had the money I would book him for a speaking engagement at my work to light a fire under everyone's ass, but I don't think that's the same. 

[Growsonwalls]

21 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'd say Jabbar was still a different era though. And there wasn't anything like Jordan's global impact before, despite Jabbar being a titan of the game. He wasn't always the smoothest either; I understand he was really prickly with the media. Jordan was the first player that was a brand. The agent in E5 said so himself. So there's going to be just another echelon of people wanting a piece of him. 

I absolutely love Pop and if I had the money I would book him for a speaking engagement at my work to light a fire under everyone's ass, but I don't think that's the same. 

Well ... I think the closest counterparts we have to Jordan would have been Lebron and Steph Curry. Both are pretty outspoken. It didn't seem to affect their brand or their popularity. 

I kind of think MJ was just one of those guys whose focus was so narrow (gambling, sports) that he probably didn't/doesn't follow politics or social issues. Maybe he has more time now. But back then probably not. 

As for the Pistons "Bad Boys" ironically they come across better IMO than MJ in this documentary. All of them seem to be able to say "man those were crazy times" but MJ with his bloodshot eyes looks like that hatred is still eating away at him.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Growsonwalls

[truthaboutluv]

2 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

The first video confirms that there was tension between IT and Magic, Michael, Larry, and Scottie but Magic is upset that people are seeing Isiah as the "bad guy" in The Last Dance.

I don't know about others but for me personally, I didn't come away thinking of Isaiah Thomas as "the bad guy". I just thought it was obvious that he had his issues with multiple players, not just MJ and so it's a little ridiculous that for so long, many were adamant in pushing the narrative that the ONLY reason Isaiah wasn't on the Dream Team, is because of MJ.

When it's clear dude burned many bridges at that time. The documentary doesn't go into what the issue was with him and Bird or him and Magic, so it's hard to say who was right or wrong there. Which is why I don't view him as a bad guy. I just think again, that it's clear, Isaiah Thomas had beef with many players for whatever reason.

And the whole walking off the court when they were about to lose to the Bulls was just petty and to quote Horace Grant, "a bitchass move" on their part. But it still didn't make me view the man as a villain. He was just a sore loser that night. 

Edited May 5, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[DoctorAtomic]

I like Curry and LeBron, but again, different era, and they already had Jordan paving the way for basketball player as a brand. I would be interested if or who was on Jordan's management team versus Lebron or Curry now. 

33 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I kind of think MJ was just one of those guys whose focus was so narrow (gambling, sports) that he probably didn't/doesn't follow politics or social issues.

Yeah I think all Jordan had to say was - I'm all about the game and don't have time for all of that. Go ask someone else about politics. I totally get that. I'm about what I can to produce in my job to get me to the next level. I don't want to make time for bullshit meetings, etc. If you're not here to put in work then gtfo. Unlike Thomas, I try hard to shut my mouth and not piss people off because I don't think they're doing their jobs right so I don't get burned. 

And I like athletes who are socially aware and speak out so no knock on any of them. I don't think they're obligated though. 

22 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

When it's clear dude burned many bridges at that time. The documentary doesn't go into what the issue was with him and Bird or him and Magic, so it's hard to say who was right or wrong there. Which is why I don't view him as a bad guy. I just think again, that it's clear, Isaiah Thomas had beef with many players for whatever reason.

I don't get why he didn't grasp that. Just the clips they showed of Thomas pushing Bird around and jawing with Magic would be clear to anyone putting the team together why he wouldn't be the best fit for this first Dream Team. 

It's nice of Jordan to say that Thomas is the best point guard behind Magic, but that gulf is wiiiiiiide. And if that's the case, well, you already have Magic on the team, and the likes of Bird, Jordan, and Pippin (the original point forward), who can bring the ball up and distribute, then what's his role that would be so integral? 

[Crs97]

Michael Jordan reminds me a little of Tiger Woods - lots of demons and only willing to speak out on issues that don’t threaten their brands.

Does anyone ever talk about Larry Bird walking off the court when the Celtics lost to the Pistons and call him petty?

[Growsonwalls]

26 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

I don't know about others but for me personally, I didn't come away thinking of Isaiah Thomas as "the bad guy". I just thought it was obvious that he had his issues with multiple players, not just MJ and so it's a little ridiculous that for so long, many were adamant to insist on the narrative that the ONLY reason Isaiah wasn't on the Dream Team, is because of MJ.

When it's clear dude burned many bridges at that time. The documentary doesn't go into what the issue was with him and Bird or him and Magic, so it's hard to say who was right or wrong there. Which is why I don't view him as a bad guy. I just think again, that it's clear, Isaiah Thomas had beef with many players for whatever reason.

And the whole walking off the court when they were about to lose to the Bulls was just petty and to quote Horace Grant, "a bitchass move" on their part but it still didn't make me view the man as a villain. He was just a sore loser that night. 

I don't view IT has the "bad guy" either. The NBA back then was in maybe its first wave of mass popularity. The Pistons carved out a role as "the bad boys." It's not who they are now because that was 30 years ago. I do think Magic now doesn't want to talk about his own role in blackballing IT because he's probably closer to IT nowadays than he is to Jordan. 

As for Larry Bird ... I know someone who was an NBA player for awhile (not a star) and according to him Bird is by far the biggest asshole that ever assholed. 

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

Does anyone ever talk about Larry Bird walking off the court when the Celtics lost to the Pistons and call him petty?

Piggybacking off the last post, I can say that I have read for years about Larry Bird being considered a major asshole by many. And as I noted in a previous post, I don't keep up with NBA gossip that much. So if I know about these rumors and stories, it's really out there.

Which means he clearly hasn't been this protected snowflake in the NBA. As for he and the rest of the Celtics walking off the court and not shaking the Pistons' hands, I'm sure there were some back then who probably had negative reactions/feelings about it too. 

The thing is, in the case of Jordan, he didn't have that experience with Bird. His experience was with Isaiah. Not to mention that two wrongs don't make something right. And I do understand Jordan's disgust, particularly because, as he noted, two years in a row they came so close to beating The Pistons and didn't and yet he sucked up his disappointment every time to shake their hands in defeat. That for them to then turn around and do what they did when they were about to lose to them just seemed incredibly petty. 

Edited May 5, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[Crs97]

We knew Bird’s character when he denied paternity of the baby his ex-wife had after they tried to reconcile.  

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't really care these guys are or were assholes. It's just incredulous to me that Thomas is so dense as to not grasp why half the team might not have wanted him to suit up. It's not like he's going to say, "oh, Bird was an asshole? Who knew?" The whole league. 

And maybe it's a little long in the tooth for Jordan to be pissed about the Pistons not shaking hands, but at the same time, Thomas had the opportunity to just suck it up and say he was wrong - not even apologize - but say something like, 'we shouldn't have done that. It disrespected the game and all the players.' 

It's amazing to me how fucking pigheaded people are when just a little contrition can fix a ton of shit. 

I had a big laugh when they showed Jordan the footage of Thomas and he said - what did he say? Now that we know what happened, he wouldn't have done it? And then rolled his eyes when Thomas said exactly that.

I don't know, if anything, this is kind of like the OJ documentary in how looking back at some major events sheds more light on modern society. 

[Growsonwalls]

2 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I don't really care these guys are or were assholes. It's just incredulous to me that Thomas is so dense as to not grasp why half the team might not have wanted him to suit up. It's not like he's going to say, "oh, Bird was an asshole? Who knew?" The whole league. 

And maybe it's a little long in the tooth for Jordan to be pissed about the Pistons not shaking hands, but at the same time, Thomas had the opportunity to just suck it up and say he was wrong - not even apologize - but say something like, 'we shouldn't have done that. It disrespected the game and all the players.' 

It's amazing to me how fucking pigheaded people are when just a little contrition can fix a ton of shit. 

In fairness though Jordan famously refused to sign off on the release of this documentary forever, so I think the documentary was always going to be a Jordan tongue-bath with him as the chief narrator and things filtered through his lens. 

I mean I think that's what Magic was saying in his video. That he doesn't like that the documentary is so skewed towards Jordan's POV that Jordan's antagonists were the "bad guys." 

[DoctorAtomic]

No, he's not coming off so great to me. You can see in the past footage that he can be a dick. Even when he's joking around, there's some meanness to it. 

I mean, he flat out called the Pistons assholes and you can clearly see it still bothers him, when it's like, you need to drop that bag off. Grant probably was pissed at the time but now he's like, whatever - they were bitches and they knew it. 

I think viewers here are discerning enough to see he's not any saint. All the talking about how they play cards all the time - you know they're gambling, and we all know that's been a problem for him. He doesn't really look that good. I like to drink too, but I think in a documentary about me I'm probably not needing it within arm's reach either. 

The producer was on npr and he did say that Jordan didn't tell them to cut anything out either though. The interviewer actually pointed out about the drinking, but the producer skirted it. They may inherently made the series a certain way, but I don't know if I'd go so far as to say 'tongue bath.' 

[Crs97]

I am no IT fan, but I keep wondering why he is being asked to apologize for something others have done with no issue or repercussions.  

[Growsonwalls]

24 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

No, he's not coming off so great to me. You can see in the past footage that he can be a dick. Even when he's joking around, there's some meanness to it. 

I mean, he flat out called the Pistons assholes and you can clearly see it still bothers him, when it's like, you need to drop that bag off. Grant probably was pissed at the time but now he's like, whatever - they were bitches and they knew it. 

I think viewers here are discerning enough to see he's not any saint. All the talking about how they play cards all the time - you know they're gambling, and we all know that's been a problem for him. He doesn't really look that good. I like to drink too, but I think in a documentary about me I'm probably not needing it within arm's reach either. 

The producer was on npr and he did say that Jordan didn't tell them to cut anything out either though. The interviewer actually pointed out about the drinking, but the producer skirted it. They may inherently made the series a certain way, but I don't know if I'd go so far as to say 'tongue bath.' 

There's actually articles about whether Jordan's ever-present tequila affected his answers to questions.

I did notice how there's an edge of meanness in his joking around. Like even his quarter game with the security guard had an edge of "you better let me win." Also Bill Paxson talks about how they dreaded playing card games with MJ because MJ was not going to stop until he won and took money. 

However I think The Last Dance was MEANT to be a valentine to Jordan. That it's not coming across that way has to do with the fact that MJ is just a dick and proud of it while the other people interviewed have more perspective and sound more mature about things that happened 20+ years ago.

By the way anyone hear the rumor that Jordan's first "retirement" was actually a suspension by the NBA for gambling on games?

[Ohwell]

I haven't watched many NBA games since the early 2000's, but I was a regular viewer during the days of the bad boy Pistons.  I don't know about the off court beefs, but what I do remember is Isaiah mouthing off and starting shit on the court, and then hiding behind Laimbeer, who was the enforcer/muscle.   In short, I always thought Isaiah was just a nasty little bitch.  

[truthaboutluv]

28 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

By the way anyone hear the rumor that Jordan's first "retirement" was actually a suspension by the NBA for gambling on games?

I've learned over time that people can say a lot of things under the veil of "rumors" and "sources said". Especially today in the world of social media and the internet where anyone behind a computer screen can say anything they want. Until receipts are produced, I'm going to choose to chalk that up to gossip. 

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

I mean I think that's what Magic was saying in his video. That he doesn't like that the documentary is so skewed towards Jordan's POV that Jordan's antagonists were the "bad guys." 

I don't get this because maybe I'm confused but I think it's pretty obvious that the entire theme of this documentary is Jordan's final season with the Chicago Bulls and that last championship and all the drama/turmoil that went on behind the scenes to getting there.

So like who else's POV would it be from? I'm sure if LeBron or Curry has a documentary in ten years or so, it'd be fairly similar. Same as the rumored Kobe documentary I've heard may have been in the works before Kobe passed. 

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

No, he's not coming off so great to me. You can see in the past footage that he can be a dick. Even when he's joking around, there's some meanness to it. 

See for me, I just think it shows that Michael wasn't perfect and so I still have yet to see anything in this documentary that makes me think he's coming off so negatively.

Again, maybe it's because I never idolized him but I just feel like he's coming off unsurprisingly as incredibly competitive and yes, arrogant at times but a hard worker who love him or hate him, showed up when he had to in the big moments. I respect the man's athletic ability and that's all MJ ever was to me. An amazing basketball player. 

This is why I loved the segment where they talked about the media and public putting people on a pedestal high enough to knock them down. Because we see it too many times. The media and public blow so much smoke up someone's ass, elevate them to godlike status and they're the same ones quick to knock them down when they have the audacity to be fallible and human, which means they're flawed. 

What I will say I've come away from this documentary thinking, is that Michael may still not be fully honest about his issues with gambling. No, maybe he wasn't this out of control addict but I do think it was a bigger problem than he's willing to admit even today. 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

Also Bill Paxson talks about how they dreaded playing card games with MJ because MJ was not going to stop until he won and took money. 

I like to win like anyone else, but if it's like that, it's just not a fun social activity. I'd be like, 'I'm coming for 2 hours and leaving. I'm not playing to 3 in the morning.'

54 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I don't know about the off court beefs, but what I do remember is Isaiah mouthing off and starting shit on the court, and then hiding behind Laimbeer, who was the enforcer/muscle.

I remember too. It's not like he wasn't an objectively good player, but the team as a whole adopted that 'just fuck with everyone all the time'. 

45 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

See for me, I just think it shows that Michael wasn't perfect and so I still have yet to see anything in this documentary that makes me think he's coming off so negatively.

I don't think 'so negatively' is accurate. I'm just saying he was just like any other superstar and the documentary isn't necessarily a tongue bath. I don't care that he called Thomas an asshole because he was. There's been a lot of interesting insight for me. I was genuinely surprised he really really likes and respects Rodman, for example. He has said some funny things too. 

50 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

What I will say I've come away from this documentary thinking, is that Michael may still not be fully honest about his issues with gambling.

I would take that one step more and say he's not honest to himself. 

Certainly, every 10 minutes of footage is giving a ton to talk about. I wasn't so pulled in at the start, but it's an A+ for me. 

[xaxat]

Two things. BJ Armstrong still looks ten years younger than he actually is and the awesome soundtrack is available as a Spotify playlist.

[Growsonwalls]

6 minutes ago, xaxat said:

Two things. BJ Armstrong still looks ten years younger than he actually is and the awesome soundtrack is available as a Spotify playlist.

I think Magic, Isiah, BJ Armstrong, Scottie, James Worthy, Bill Paxson, Bill Laimbeer, Phil Jackson, Reggie Miller, etc all look good. 

Shaq and Charles Barkley have gained a lot of weight, and Jordan looks rough as does Dennis Rodman. 

[Mean Machine]

2 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

By the way anyone hear the rumor that Jordan's first "retirement" was actually a suspension by the NBA for gambling on games?

Hear the rumor? I've been listening to morons spew this line of bullshit for over twenty-five years now.  Zero evidence that this was the case.

[BitterApple]

3 hours ago, Crs97 said:

We knew Bird’s character when he denied paternity of the baby his ex-wife had after they tried to reconcile.  

I'm from Boston, and I remember Bird being raked over the coals in the local media when his daughter wrote to him, begging to attend his retirement ceremony and he never responded. He's a first class piece of shit.

[truthaboutluv]

Speaking of B.J. Armstrong, I completely agree with him that I doubt Stan Smith had just one source for that Jordan Rules book. Horace became the most obvious culprit but even if he did speak to Stan, I doubt he was the only one. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[Sew Sumi]

22 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Speaking of B.J. Armstrong, I completely agree with him that I doubt Stan Smith had just one source for that Jordan Rules book. Horace became the most obvious culprit but even he did speak to Stan, I doubt he was the only one. 

Why Horace? I have no clue as to the interactions between MJ and his teammates. Why not, say, Steve Kerr? 

[truthaboutluv]

38 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Why Horace? I have no clue as to the interactions between MJ and his teammates. Why not, say, Steve Kerr? 

Well per Horace himself in the documentary, apparently he and Stan were good friends, and still are today. So I think that's all the reason people needed to assume it was him. 

[Mean Machine]

Not to mention Steve Kerr wasn't even on the team when the book was being written.

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't have any recollection of this book. 

[Growsonwalls]

Nothing really shocking about the book today, just saying that MJ could be a dick to his teammates and had a huge ego. But it didn’t fit with the super wholesome “Be Like Mike” ad campaigns. It’s all stuff MJ would probably admit to in a heartbeat now. 

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I don't have any recollection of this book. 

Me either. 

I only used Kerr as an illustrative example. I missed the part about Horace. I'll try to catch It on repeat.

[Growsonwalls]

Well I did not know that Charles Barkley and MJ are now beefing. Huh? I'm losing track about who is now beefing.

Charles and MJ = beefing

Isiah and MJ= beefing

Magic and Isiah = were beefing but aren't now

 

[DrSpaceman73]

I am an Indiana University grad and IT won a title for my alma mater in 1981.  And I actually cheered for him and the Pistons, to a degree, back during their two title runs. 

However, I don't really care for him personally.  His post playing career in basketball has been horrendous.  He is an awful coach.  he squandered 3 GOLDEN YEARS for the Pacers in the early 2000s between the Jordan and Lebron years with his ineptitude on the bench.  He was among the WORST GMs ever for the Knicks, which is a historically hard list to crack.  He literally ruined the continental basketball association.  He is a horrible commentator

I have no sympathy for him being left off the Dream Team and have little doubt that he likely brought that fate upon himself somehow.  His off the court actions have always been dubious. 

[Sew Sumi]

What has Isiah done off the court? Big playa? Gambler? Spill some tea!

[DoctorAtomic]

I haven't watched episode 6 but saw an article on Barkley this morning. I mean, this kind of what we've been talking about. It's Barkley's job to be critical. 

It's easy Jordan - do better managing your team and he won't. But guy needs some more of the tequila. Who doesn't like Barkley? Dial it down. 

 

[Growsonwalls]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I haven't watched episode 6 but saw an article on Barkley this morning. I mean, this kind of what we've been talking about. It's Barkley's job to be critical. 

It's easy Jordan - do better managing your team and he won't. But guy needs some more of the tequila. Who doesn't like Barkley? Dial it down. 

 

I think Sir Charles and Shaq are maybe the two most likable ex-NBA superstars. I like that both of them can make fun of their weight. As I said, I was acquainted with a guy who was in the NBA (NOT a star) and one of the things he mentioned is that NBA guys are obsessive about their weight and looking good. So I like NBA stars who can say "I'm fat and I need to lose weight." 

As an example of this former NBA star and University of Memphis coach Penny Hardaway is one of those guys who still posts workout pix on IG obsessively:

More Isiah/Dream Team interviews. IT now says that it was 8 guys who now insist that they had nothing to do with the blackballing. Magic said the other night that Bird, Malone, Pippen and Jordan had an issue with Isiah. So not hard to do the math: IT is reffering to Bird, Malone, Pippen and Jordan as the four guys who blackballed him.

 

[DrSpaceman73]

IT was also sued while with the Knicks for sex discrimination and retaliation and he was found guilty in court of "aiding and abetting a hostile work environment".

In addition, I recall now, in the Magic-Bird book A Courtship of Rivals, in addition to other sources, IT was said to be at the very least less than supportive of Magic when he was diagnosed with HIV and also has been accused by Magic agent at the time of questioning Magic's sexuality and spreading rumors about him around the league.  IT denies doing so, but I don't believe him.  That was when magic and IT relationship soured and it was around the time of the Dream Team.  So Magic can so he had nothing to do with IT being left off the squad, and maybe that is true, but I bet he also did not fight very hard against those who did not want him there.  Was probably an "OK if you don't want him on the team I am fine with that" so he could absolve himself of being the one doing the blackballing, but at the same time was not resisting the effort at exclusion

In summary, from what we know of IT over the years, he likely brought the blackballing from the Dream Team on himself by his actions over the years.  He has never endeared himself to most of the other players or many people in the league. 

[Growsonwalls]

MJ's kids speak out about The Last Dance. His older son Jeffrey is a cutie. Kids affirmed how competitive MJ was even with his kids. But mostly his kids seem pretty nice and normal. 

I also didn't see that MJ did a live interview a few weeks ago. He looks better than he did during The Last Dance interviews. No bloodshot eyes -- guess you can't drink whiskey while doing an interview with GMA.

 

[DoctorAtomic]

First of all, no one calls gatorade by the flavor!

Ugh. I can barely remember games where 84-78 in the NBA. 

E6 - I mean, ffs you're throwing quarters. Ok. tbh, I would practice the shit in my down time to beat him at cards just one night. 

I get that the demands on Jordan were incomprehensible at the time and overwhelming, but it's not like he didn't entirely know what he was getting in to. 

I find all this bullshit about the book to be tedious, which, again, I get the context of the times, but even then, oh a superstar is an asshole? cf., literally everyone before that. I'm sure Bill Russell walked on water. 

I remember those Knicks teams. They weren't that good talent-wise. Way punched above their weight from Riley. They couldn't score when they needed to. As ass as the Pistons were, they had actual shooters. No disrespect to Ewing. 

All right, I'm fine with pro athletes doing whatever they want to (lawful), gambling, clubs, whatever, when you're a multimillionaire. You rolling with a guy Slim? Ain't no one you calling 'Slim' that's legit. 

I do take the point, again, because of the times, where everyone was all clutching their pearls. 

I totally forgot until I saw it how up and down the Suns series was. That was a good Suns team.

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[Popples]

9 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

E6 - I mean, ffs you're throwing quarters. Ok. tbh, I would practice the shit in my down time to beat him at cards just one night. 

Michael would not let that rest. Like the time Chuck Daly beat him at golf and Michael was so incensed that he pounded on Daly's hotel room door the next morning at the crack of dawn and demanded a rematch. Sure, you might have the satisfaction for half a minute that you beat him, but like Magic pointed out that he won't just want to beat you back, he'll want to crush you.

The Charles/Michael friendship thing is really sad, but when it comes to basketball, MJ makes every molehill into Everest. Michael could take Charles going on Oprah with him and laugh at Charles calling him ugly to his face, but when told the truth about how the Charlotte Hornets haven't been successful during his tenure is the bridge too far. 🙄

[Crs97]

3 minutes ago, Popples said:

Michael would not let that rest. Like the time Chuck Daly beat him at golf and Michael was so incensed that he pounded on Daly's hotel room door the next morning at the crack of dawn and demanded a rematch. Sure, you might have the satisfaction for half a minute that you beat him, but like Magic pointed out that he won't just want to beat you back, he'll want to crush you.

He would be publicly feuding with me then because the more he demanded a rematch, the more I would refuse.  Baby.

[DoctorAtomic]

Yeah I'm talking one card game. He can beat on my door all he wants. I'm surprised no one just did that to fuck with him. 

[Growsonwalls]

11 hours ago, Popples said:

Michael would not let that rest. Like the time Chuck Daly beat him at golf and Michael was so incensed that he pounded on Daly's hotel room door the next morning at the crack of dawn and demanded a rematch. Sure, you might have the satisfaction for half a minute that you beat him, but like Magic pointed out that he won't just want to beat you back, he'll want to crush you.

The Charles/Michael friendship thing is really sad, but when it comes to basketball, MJ makes every molehill into Everest. Michael could take Charles going on Oprah with him and laugh at Charles calling him ugly to his face, but when told the truth about how the Charlotte Hornets haven't been successful during his tenure is the bridge too far. 🙄

One thing that is sort of depressing is the old video clips of MJ teasing his teammates and them all just chuckling quietly but not saying much. They probably knew MJ is the type who can dish it out but can't take anything in. 

Sir Charles is a really talkative, fun sports analyst. He wouldn't be repeatedly hired if he just dished out pablum. And MJ's record with the Hornets hasn't been good. 

[Crs97]

My UO-Jerry Krause may have been a jerk and terrible human being, but I also feel like I am watching a bunch of high school sports stars bully the nerdy kid at lunch.

[BitterApple]

On 5/8/2020 at 5:33 PM, Crs97 said:

My UO-Jerry Krause may have been a jerk and terrible human being, but I also feel like I am watching a bunch of high school sports stars bully the nerdy kid at lunch.

Seriously, it was like the NBA version of Cobra Kai and the Karate Kid. 

[Growsonwalls]

Well these last two episodes were maybe the weakest. I think because the previous episodes took detours into the lives of Scottie, the Dream Team, Dennis, Isiah, etc. But these two episodes were so MJ-centric. And there wasn't much I didn't already know except for the fact that MJ made up that story about LaBradford Smith. 

A few thoughts: 

1. I can see why Steve Kerr is so successful as a coach. He seems to have that patient temperament that is missing in so many of the superstars.

2. Gary Payton looks exactly the same. Wow. As does BJ Armstrong.

3. Ah, the Orlando Magic in the 90s. The greatest team that could have been but never was.

4. I still remember Scottie Pippen sitting out that final play. And that pissy expression he had. Heh. 

5. One of the two guys convicted of murdering James Jordan still says he's innocent.

[Danny Franks]

This series has made me like Scottie Pippen a lot more than I did when I was a kid - I chose to be a Knicks fan, and so was destined for nothing but disappointment, much of it at the hands of the Bulls. But Ewing was great -  and made me like Jordan even less than I did. The man is a complete egomaniac, and it shows in the editing of this documentary.

I've not watched the last couple of episodes yet but, as far as I recall, the story was that Jordan hated Isiah right from his rookie year, because of the All-Star Game where Isiah made fun of Jordan wearing Nike gear instead team gear, and the vets hazed him during the game. Then it all just got heavier as the Pistons and the Bulls became such heated rivals.

Meanwhile, the Rodman stuff has aged so badly. Interviewers uncomfortably asking him what he's trying to do, by wearing unconventional clothes or makeup. It's hilarious, in the worst 'old white man doesn't like to be challenged mentally' kind of way.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Danny Franks

[Mean Machine]

Pippen lost me when he stated that if he had to do it all over again, he would once again quit on his team during a playoff game against the Knicks.

[Growsonwalls]

You know I was wondering -- is Jordan's hyper-intense personality typical of professional athletes? I know that Tiger Woods and Kobe Bryant were infamous for their closed off, hypercompetitive personalities. But Jordan seems extreme even for GOAT athletes.

[xaxat]

So many mid-range jumpers!

ETA I can't believe they didn't show a shot of Spike Lee at the Double Nickel game. He's the man who invented the designation.

Edited May 11, 2020 by xaxat