Race & Ethnicity On TV

[Scarlett45]

On 9/21/2018 at 10:24 PM, phoenics said:

Well I just saw some Hallmark movie being promoted on twitter with Jessica Parker Kennedy (she's biracial - playing Iris/Barry's daughter on The Flash) and Danielle Panabaker.  Guess which actress they tweeted out and which one they ignored like she was a glorified extra?

Ugh. (Them not you)

[Trini]

2 hours ago, Dee said:

ABC Developing ‘PANK’ Drama Series From Felicia D. Henderson & Darryl Taja

As long as they don't call it "PANK", ?

 

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

... GG And CP are the ONLY actors who are in absolutely every episode.  ...

It doesn't take away from your point about Gustin and Patton's status, however, Carlos Valdes and Danielle Panabaker have also appeared in every episode so far.

[In2You]

These biracial actresses and actors are not black. They are biracial and their white side is giving them more opportunities  than actual black actresses with two black parents. I need people to stop lumping them with black actors and actresses. Majority of them are only black when it comes to getting leading roles that should go to black actors. Other than that they strongly identify with their white sides.

[Picture It. Sicily]

4 minutes ago, In2You said:

These biracial actresses and actors are not black. They are biracial and their white side is giving them more opportunities  than actual black actresses with two black parents. I need people to stop lumping them with black actors and actresses. Majority of them are only black when it comes to getting leading roles that should go to black actors. Other than that they strongly identify with their white sides.

That is such a blanket (and unfair) statement. 

[In2You]

6 minutes ago, Picture It. Sicily said:

That is such a blanket (and unfair) statement. 

You may believe it's unfair but take a look at the vast majority of biracial actors and actresses who are popular at the moment. Its trendy th o speak about being woke but they usually dont folow through with their actions. 

Jessica Parker Kennedy was mentioned. She wasnt even playing a black character in that Hallmark movie(which has been out for quite a few years)and Danielle was the main lead with the most focus in it.

[Trini]

34 minutes ago, In2You said:

These biracial actresses and actors are not black. They are biracial ...

I don't think being biracial excludes one from being Black. But I'm willing to hear your take on what you think qualifies as Black.
 

Quote

... and their white side is giving them more opportunities  than actual black actresses with two black parents. I need people to stop lumping them with black actors and actresses. ...

Biracial covers more than Black/White.

This could be true; however, I think they are definitely in the same category as "actual black" actors since that's how Hollywood sees them. Hollywood, where it is mainly White or Not-White (with a few sub-categories in Not-White).
 

Quote

... Majority of them are only black when it comes to getting leading roles that should go to black actors. ...

I don't think they should should blamed for being who they are when the real problem is with the system/institutions.
 

Quote

... Other than that they strongly identify with their white sides.

I'm sure some persons do, but you can't say that's true for everyone. Or even the majority.

[In2You]

You cant be black and have a none black parent. These people are not black or white they're both. And let's not pretend it's just a coincidence that the majority of black female roles are portrayed by biracial females while the black male roles are usually played by a black males. 

[jenrising]

I think those issues can and should be separated. The history of black characters being portrayed by women who have one black and one non-black parent (particularly if they're to be considered desirable) is long, and problematic. The prevalence of biracial actresses is more about colorism than their actual parentage. The visual proximity to whiteness and white beauty standards. But that's not the same thing as them not being black. I'm not interested in policing anyone's blackness, personally.

[2727]

3 hours ago, In2You said:

You cant be black and have a none black parent.

Can you be black with one non-black grandparent? Where does it stop?

[Trini]

6 hours ago, In2You said:

You cant be black and have a none black parent. These people are not black or white they're both.

So they are Black. And White. You are contradicting yourself.
 

2 hours ago, 2727 said:

Can you be black with one non-black grandparent? Where does it stop?

Exactly. I was going to bring this up also, because I myself am the product of 3 Black* and 1 White grandparents, so according that formula, I cannot be Black. (and I definitely identify as and look Black.) Also that would put a large amount of peoples into a grey area. Which highlights the idea that 'race' is either largely undefinable or doesn't exist; and I'm not sure I'm qualified to discuss that in depth, so I think I'll stop right here.

Then, the idea that certain roles should only be played by 'pureblood' actors can be iffy - at best. I imagine actors having to have their family trees examined at each audition would bring up so many discrimination issues.

 

*(I'm assuming, I don't have the records far enough back, because, you know, slavery....)

[Dee]

Anika Noni Rose Asked Wreck-It Ralph 2 to Reanimate Princess Tiana After Backlash

Quote

When Disney released footage from the Wreck-It Ralph sequel, Ralph Breaks the Internet, fans of The Princess and the Frog’s Princess Tiana noticed that the first black Disney princess didn’t look the same in this new film as she did in her standalone movie.

Her nose was slimmer, her hair lighter and curlier, and her brown skin a few shades lighter.

Now Tiana herself is addressing the change.

In a statement posted to her Instagram, Anika Noni Rose, the voice of Tiana, said she met with The Princess and the Frog and Ralph Breaks the Internet animators to discuss rendering Tiana closer to her original likeness. “[The Ralph Breaks the Internet animators] explained how CGI animation did different things to the characters’ color tones in different light compared to hand drawn original characters,” Rose wrote. “And I was able to express how important it is to the little girls (and let’s face it, grown women) who felt represented by her that her skin tone stay as rich as it had been, and that her nose continue to be the little round nose that [The Princess and the Frog animator] Mark so beautifully rendered in the movie; the same nose on my very own face and on many other little brown faces around the world, that we so rarely get to see represented in fantasy.”

Edited September 25, 2018 by Dee

[phoenics]

I was so happy to see them fix Tiana.  Because that was some utter foolishness making her look whiter.  I'm so sick of people's anti-blackness.

[Katsullivan]

On 9/24/2018 at 9:30 PM, phoenics said:

You can tell the difference because contractually, leads MUST be in EVERY episode of a show.  GG And CP are the ONLY actors who are in absolutely every episode. 

OK, playing devil's advocate here, Danielle Panabacker is also in every episode of the Flash. If you count cross-over episodes, then she's in more Flarrowverse episodes than Candice Patton herself. She has been nominated for Best Actress - not Best Supporting Actress for her role as Caitlin Snow. She gets more promotional material than Candice ever has, including not just facetime in the episode trailers, but posters on the official site, and  the only female actress on the show to get a Funko Pop. And as much as it pains me to say this, she got more meatier storylines, more independent A-plots than Candice did. She got  more lines in the earlier season.

So the question is: if a tree falls in the forest, and no one hears it, has it made a sound?

If Candice is the leading lady of the Flash --- and Danielle Panabacker's character gets more stories and lines, gets the promotional material and magazine interviews ---- is CP still the leading lady, or is that just a role that is in name only?

Again, I am playing Devil's Advocate here. As you pointed out, Krypton is a great example of what happens when this gets out of hand. 

[jhlipton]

On 9/23/2018 at 10:30 AM, DearEvette said:

Naw. That was a Lifetime movie.  Not Hallmark.  People very pointedly mentioned to Hallmark on twitter and FB that see... non-white people can be happy and in love at Christmas too.

Ooopa.  Sorry!

On 9/23/2018 at 8:28 PM, ursula said:

I noticed this with the recent promo for The Good Doctor. Antonia Thomas is the female lead but you can't tell from the promo because she's in a blink-and-you'll-miss-it shot. In the Korean original, her character was the lead's love interest but here, that role has been replaced by a white actress, and she and Shawn are siblings just friends. ?

The first episode wasn't about Claire at all -- it was about the doctors whose lives were changing the most: Andrews, becoming head of the hospital; Jarred, forced to leave; Glassman, facing the one brain surgery he couldn't perform.  Even so, she still had a real good role in this episode.  And she will be co-lead  in other episodes.

On 9/24/2018 at 9:32 PM, In2You said:

These biracial actresses and actors are not black. They are biracial and their white side is giving them more opportunities  than actual black actresses with two black parents. I need people to stop lumping them with black actors and actresses. Majority of them are only black when it comes to getting leading roles that should go to black actors. Other than that they strongly identify with their white sides.

Yes, and no.  There is no doubt in my mind that lighter-skinned actresses (as well as actresses from India and Hispanic countries) get more and better roles than the darker ones do, and this isn't as much the case as with black men.  However, lighter-skinned actresses don't gtet the opportunities of white ones, and face the same racism as black actresses do.

12 hours ago, Dee said:

Anika Noni Rose Asked Wreck-It Ralph 2 to Reanimate Princess Tiana After Backlash

Quote

“[The Ralph Breaks the Internet animators] explained how CGI animation did different things to the characters’ color tones in different light compared to hand drawn original characters,” Rose wrote.

First, this is bullshit.  SorryNotSorry for the language, but there's no other way to put it.  Animation, even more than live acting, can be colored any way they want.  And please tell me how the "lighting" made her nose thinner. 

[Joe]

14 hours ago, Dee said:

Anika Noni Rose Asked Wreck-It Ralph 2 to Reanimate Princess Tiana After Backlash

Yes, it was the animation process that made her look different. Right. Uh huh. Sure thing. Of course it was the animation process, and not the people who created the art assets. We all accept that, don't we?

[biakbiak]

The  young girls (niece and goddaughter and friends chidren)  in my life are ashamed how much I don’t know about Disney Princesses but didn’t the original Princess and the Frog get backlash about how the initial billboards or drawings were presented? This is not defending Reck it Ralph but more to be like you should have been on point when it came to involving that movie in your stories!

Edited September 26, 2018 by biakbiak

[phoenics]

15 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

OK, playing devil's advocate here, Danielle Panabacker is also in every episode of the Flash. If you count cross-over episodes, then she's in more Flarrowverse episodes than Candice Patton herself. She has been nominated for Best Actress - not Best Supporting Actress for her role as Caitlin Snow. She gets more promotional material than Candice ever has, including not just facetime in the episode trailers, but posters on the official site, and  the only female actress on the show to get a Funko Pop. And as much as it pains me to say this, she got more meatier storylines, more independent A-plots than Candice did. She got  more lines in the earlier season.

So the question is: if a tree falls in the forest, and no one hears it, has it made a sound?

If Candice is the leading lady of the Flash --- and Danielle Panabacker's character gets more stories and lines, gets the promotional material and magazine interviews ---- is CP still the leading lady, or is that just a role that is in name only?

Again, I am playing Devil's Advocate here. As you pointed out, Krypton is a great example of what happens when this gets out of hand. 

Let's finally kill this persistent and false rumor.  That nomination she had for The Flash was for Choice TV Actress – Fantasy/Sci-Fi (twice) and Choice Action TV Actress.  These aren't "Best Actress" nominations.  It's a general award category for actresses - there is no best/supporting distinction.  The Best Actress nomination was for Time Lapse in 2014, NOT THE FLASH.  I'm not sure where the rumor started that she was nominated for a Best Actress award for The Flash, but it's false.  See Wikipedia AND imdb.

But you do have a point about her getting nearly the same screentime, etc... but that's kinda the point I've been making.  She's not the lead, but the producers/writers give her way more time than her billing deserves.  It's the usual ploy these folks do when there is a black female lead.  It's what set off my rant - because I saw the same foolishness happening on Krypton.

So I agree in spirit - my only point was stating the fact that CP is the female lead of The Flash.  But yes - they screwed her over in the ways you mention.

[jhlipton]

Re  Princess and the Frog, there was also the problem that Tian spent more time as a gr5een / non-Black frog than as a human.

I just watched manifest, and there are two background Black women, and the leads (and "conventionally attractive" women) are white and light (Indian, of coiurse.  And the white one is TERRIBLE.  Blergh.

[Neurochick]

On 9/8/2018 at 8:26 PM, DearEvette said:

I dunno, I don't think I'd call Kellerman's intro a way to make the show white led.  I think the intro of Reed Diamond and then later Jon Seda, Michael Michelle, etc. was NBC's attempt to 'pretty' the cast up.  The original cast was older character actors.  They made pains to make Melissa Leo look plain and frumpy.  Kay Howard never wore make up etc. compare her to Michael Michelle who came in all glamorous looking.

Actually, if you watch the first and maybe second season of HLOTS, Kay Howard wore A LOT of make up.  I think it was Leo herself who said IRL, Howard wouldn't be so made up.  

[Silver Raven]

Awkwafina is hosting Saturday Night Live this week.

[Dee]

CBS Nabs Jermaine Fowler & Quinta Brunson Parenting Comedy From Larry Wilmore With Production Commitment

Quote

Written by Wilmore, Fowler and Brunson, Quinta & Jermaine stars the title duo as childhood best friends who find themselves expecting a child while navigating adulthood.

[Silver Raven]

The new "The Mandalorian" Star Wars series has, as well as show runner Jon Favreau, Deborah Chow, Rick Famuyiwa, Bryce Dallas Howard, and Taika Waititi as directors.

[memememe76]

On 03/10/2018 at 1:54 PM, Silver Raven said:

Awkwafina is hosting Saturday Night Live this week.

First Asian Woman to host since Lucy Liu in 2000. 18 years.

[Dee]

Fox Nabs Faith-Based Procedural From ‘The Chi’ Co-EP & Ice Cube With Penalty

Quote

Written by Wilson, the police procedural infuses contemporary retellings of stories from the Bible. It centers on Melvin Reed, a larger-than-life District Commander. With the beating heart of faith driving his commitment to his squad, his community and his family, he sets out to do the impossible – transform one of the most crime-ridden districts in Baltimore by transforming the hearts and minds of both his officers and the residents they’re sworn to protect.

[jhlipton]

On 9/24/2018 at 10:49 PM, Trini said:

I think they are definitely in the same category as "actual black" actors since that's how Hollywood sees them. Hollywood, where it is mainly White or Not-White (with a few sub-categories in Not-White).

Hollywood seems to have 3 categories, especially for women:

1st: White -- highly desirable, even if they can't act.  Must have many of these.

2nd: Light -- Latina, Indian, biracial, there's room on a show for one, but no more than one, of these

3rd: Black -- No need for these, the light actress fills our "diversity" slot.

[topanga]

7 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Hollywood seems to have 3 categories, especially for women:

1st: White -- highly desirable, even if they can't act.  Must have many of these.

2nd: Light -- Latina, Indian, biracial, there's room on a show for one, but no more than one, of these

3rd: Black -- No need for these, the light actress fills our "diversity" slot.

Boom. And therein lies the problem. 

Hollywood mirrors society’s definitions of beauty and desirability. Which further reinforces those definitions. Vicious cycle.

Which is why, for example, seeing Viola Davis on HTGAWM as a smart but also sexual and desirable dark-skinned woman over age 40 is such a big deal. I don’t even watch the show anymore—the bad writing lost me after season 1, but I still praise Shonda Rhimes for giving us shows like this and Scandal (which also lost me after a few seasons, but I digress). Similarly, Being Mary Jane gave us the lovely Gabrielle Union, but that show started to give me migraines after a few seasons.

[DearEvette]

12 hours ago, jhlipton said:

2nd: Light -- Latina, Indian, biracial, there's room on a show for one, but no more than one, of these

Heh.  This is what I also like to call the 'ambiguously brown' role.  Whenever I see a new show announced where they show the cast picture and there is an actress in the ensemble that I don't recognize who is obviously a WOC but not what I would quickly or easily identify as black or East Asian -- her skin tone and facial features means she could be anything from black to SE Aisan to Latina to heck, just an olive skinned white woman.  That is when you become an IMDB/Wikipedia/Twitter sleuth.  LOL

[jhlipton]

21 hours ago, topanga said:

Which is why, for example, seeing Viola Davis on HTGAWM as a smart but also sexual and desirable dark-skinned woman over age 40 is such a big deal. I don’t even watch the show anymore—the bad writing lost me after season 1, but I still praise Shonda Rhimes for giving us shows like this

For what it's worth, there are now 3 women in lead or recurring roles, as well as one Latina, and (I think) only one white woman.

[possibilities]

Tegan and Michaela on HTGAWM being key players, not just background tokens, is a real turnaround for TV. I have to say the Black men on the show don't fare nearly as well. Wes was killed off and Nate is basically just a shirtless hunk of man meat whose character exists solely to glisten and act as a support to the women. The show turns quite a few sexist tropes on their heads.

[DearEvette]

I hadn't really been following anything about the Charmed reboot.  I planned to maybe catch it just to see how it was because I like Madeleine Mantock.  According to this article at The Mary Sue, the show has been marketed and heavily promoting the show as being a Latina-led show with various media outlets claiming all three actresses are of Latina descent.  But apparently only one of the actresses is actually Latina. 
 

Quote

 

The first issue that needs to be clarified is that of the three actresses in the show, only one of them is Latina: Melonie Diaz, who plays Mel Vera. At the press roundtable, actress Sarah Jeffery was asked about how Latinx magic was going to be in the show reflecting the actress’s culture, and Jeffery clarified that she herself is not Latina. Jeffrey said, “I’m African-American,” and that her mother is Indigenous Canadian.

Now if you look at the Wikipedia entry for the show, it says that Diaz and Jeffery are of Hispanic descent and the link to the article that claims that, on Bustle, says that all three women are of Hispanic descent. Actress Madeleine Mantock is Afro-Carribean, and at first that doesn’t mean she couldn’t be Latina or Hispanic, because there are Spanish- speaking islands in the Carribean. But when I asked her about her character being Afro-Latina, she said that her Carribean heritage is Jamaican

 

The author of the article went on to embed a tweet by Mantock where she further clarifies that she is Jamaican and Caucasian and says "the internet is wrong about a lot of things" when a fan tweeted at her that "the internet" claimed she was Afro-Latina.

I find this fascinating.  I mean, visually all three actresses can pass for Latina, which apparently is what the CW is trying to do.  I mean it is one thing to claim the characters are a specific ethnicity but for the marketing to try to bend that onto the actresses is not cool.

[Lugal]

It seems like this is a fault of the CW Promo department.  The show is revolving around three Latinx sisters, and they seemed to confused the characters' heritage with the actresses'.  As for looking Latina, both Alexis Bledel and Zoe Saldana identify as Latina, but it looks like the show is trying to fit all in the 2nd "Light" slot that jhlipton mentioned (which, sadly, is still better than most shows).

On 10/7/2018 at 9:53 PM, jhlipton said:

1st: White -- highly desirable, even if they can't act.  Must have many of these.

2nd: Light -- Latina, Indian, biracial, there's room on a show for one, but no more than one, of these

3rd: Black -- No need for these, the light actress fills our "diversity" slot.

I think it's awesome that the show has three Latinx leads.  They claim they have a Latinx witch in the writer's room, but they don't actually name anyone, which makes me wonder (the article is from a month ago and repeats the "all three leads are Latina" claim).  I'm curious if they get Brujería or even the folk magical traditions of various Latin American countries right.  But I have to remember that the original show was problematic in its depiction of Wicca.

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/new-charmed-reboot-latinx-witch-in-writers-room

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

As for looking Latina, both Alexis Bledel and Zoe Saldana identify as Latina

Really? Then I think Zoe Saldana playing Nina Simone was all the more worse. She basically did blackface. What could she have been thinking?

[dargosmydaddy]

On 5/16/2018 at 10:39 AM, Llywela said:

Since this site skews heavily American, I'm not sure how many folk here will have access to this show, but here in the UK, Sky One premiered last night a new buddy cop show called Bulletproof, featuring two black leads, Ashley Walters and Noel Clarke, who also co-created the show:

Early days yet, but I thoroughly enjoyed the first episode: a highly entertaining blend of action and comedy which also managed to hit dramatic and emotional notes when it needed to, the characters have a fun dynamic and interesting personal lives - plus obviously it's great to see such positive representation. I'm definitely on board for more and do recommend everyone to look out for it, if they get the chance.

Apparently the CW has picked up Bulletproof for a summer 2019 run. I'm excited to get to watch it, even if I'm somewhat bemused by the venue (this doesn't sound like a typical CW show...)

https://tvline.com/2018/10/09/burden-of-truth-renewed-season-2-cw-summer-2019/

[Dee]

Kal Penn to Star in NBC Comedy With Put Pilot Commitment, Michael Schur to Produce

Quote

NBC has given a put pilot commitment to a comedy project that hails from Kal Penn and Matt Murray, Variety has learned.

Murray and Penn are both writers and executive producers on the untitled single-camera project, with Penn also attached to star. It follows disgraced New York City Councilman and former baseball wunderkind Garrett Shah (Penn), who finds his calling when faced with six recent immigrants in search of the American Dream.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Dee

[possibilities]

I still can't get over how Teen Vogue has become "woke".

For sexy and awesome Black women characters, Black Lightning delivers. I love how they've evolved the family dynamics, too. Lynn is every bit Jefferson's equal in the season 2 premiere that aired tonight.

[Popples]

2 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Apparently the CW has picked up Bulletproof for a summer 2019 run. I'm excited to get to watch it, even if I'm somewhat bemused by the venue (this doesn't sound like a typical CW show...)

https://tvline.com/2018/10/09/burden-of-truth-renewed-season-2-cw-summer-2019/

[connieinnc]

18 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Really? Then I think Zoe Saldana playing Nina Simone was all the more worse. She basically did blackface. What could she have been thinking?

A person can be Latinx with African descent, not sure if that is Ms Saldana's ethnicity, but it is hasty to jump to the conclusion that she was doing blackface.

[Picture It. Sicily]

If you saw her in costume...it was blackface

[Minneapple]

All American premieres tonight on the CW. I have high hopes for it.

[Silver Raven]

4 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

All American premieres tonight on the CW. I have high hopes for it.

I do have to laugh that the main actor is English who knew nothing about football till he was cast.

[topanga]

Just now, Minneapple said:

All American premieres tonight on the CW. I have high hopes for it.

That’s right. I’d forgotten about it. It’ll be nice to see a show that doesn’t place a limit on the number of lead characters that are POC 

I saw an interview with the cast and hadn’t realized that the high school kid is played by a British actor. 

I know I criticized Samuel L. Jackson when he made his comments, but I’m starting to move toward his side. You mean there were no young American actors who could’ve played this part? American actors need to work, too. 

[Dee]

‘Asian Bae’ Of ‘Insecure’ Explains Why His Role Is Groundbreaking For Asian Guys

Quote

Unfortunately, in 2018, a character like Asian Bae is still somehow a rarity. And Hodge feels it’s got to do with the stunning lack of diversity behind the camera. 

“For a long time, the writers, showrunners, producers have been white, have been men. With a more varied makeup of writers, directors and producers, we get to see more varied stories,” he said. “People write what they know, and what they can believe. Sometimes it takes a new voice with a new experience to show people what else can be written.”

“Insecure” boasts a diverse writers room comprised mostly of women. And Hunt says the representation there likely made a difference. 

“All the research I’ve done in recent years that looks at writers rooms finds, over and over again, that writers rooms led by people of color and/or women tend to be more diverse and tend to develop storylines and characters that are different than what you get when there’s a white male leading things in the writers rooms,” Hunt said.

“I don’t think we would’ve gotten this image with a writers room led by a white man. I think there’s something unique about ‘Insecure’ that allows this to even become a possibility,” he added.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Dee

[Trini]

3 hours ago, Dee said:

‘Asian Bae’ Of ‘Insecure’ Explains Why His Role Is Groundbreaking For Asian Guys

 

This was a good read. I'm just disappointed people forget about Josh Chan played by Vincent Rodriguez on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Trini
to clarify

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

This was a good read. I'm just disappointed people forget about Josh Chan/Vincent Rodriguez on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend.

And John Cho/Gabrielle Union on Flashforward.

[DearEvette]

Oh, yeah, Andrew "Asian Bae"  on Insecure is a snack!  What is interesting is, he isn't the first Asian guy on the show to show an interest in Molly.  In Season 1 there was also a very handsome Asian guy who was putting the down the vibes on Molly but she wasn't picking them up. I think he was a co-worker and she didn't even entertain the idea because he wasn't black.  I love how the show makes no bones about portraying Molly as the quintessential relationship self-sabotager.  And I love how Andrew thoroughly reads her on her sad relationship with Dro.

Edited October 11, 2018 by DearEvette

[Scarlett45]

I’m loving Jessica Parker Kennedy as Nora West Allen on the Flash. Barry is the white member of a black family which we don’t see in media that often. 

[Scarlett45]

On 9/24/2018 at 8:03 PM, Dee said:

ABC Developing ‘PANK’ Drama Series From Felicia D. Henderson & Darryl Taja

No! Please stop giving childfree women children. Can’t she still be the “PANK” and the star of the show?! 

[jhlipton]

11 hours ago, connieinnc said:

A person can be Latinx with African descent, not sure if that is Ms Saldana's ethnicity, but it is hasty to jump to the conclusion that she was doing blackface.

She wore makeup that darkened her face.  I think she even wore a fake nose. I call that "blackface".

[connieinnc]

4 hours ago, jhlipton said:

She wore makeup that darkened her face.  I think she even wore a fake nose. I call that "blackface".

My comment was in reaction to one that said her being Latina made it worse, but am not going to comment further when I haven't seen the portrayal in question.

[DearEvette]

2 hours ago, connieinnc said:

I haven't seen the portrayal in question.

You and a lot of people.  Ba-dum-bump!

Seriously, the movie bombed.  I remember when they announced she was playing Nina, people were upset because one of the defining things about Nina was how dark skinned and unequivocally African Black she looked :  Afro kinky hair, wide nose, bigger lips,  She spoke out about eurocentric standards of beauty and how she felt her looks were negatively judged against those standards,  So the casting of Saldana was already problematic because even though Zoe does identify as Afro-Latina, she actually fits the euro standards of beauty that Nina painfully reflected on and felt rejected against.  But I think people were still kinda reserving judgement.

And then the stills of Zoe as Nina came out.  Good Gravy just so wrong!  i mean, when you have to darken the skin of an already dark skinned woman and then add prosthetics to make her look African -- then you need to rethink your casting in the first place. Also the make-up was just bad.  I mean she looked like a really, really, bad Madame Tussaud's wax figure gone really wrong.

I can't help but contrast that to Denzel playing Malcolm X.  Sure not the best analogy, but Malcolm was a Ginger!  A light skinned man, with freckles and red hair.  And Denzel looked nothing like Malcolm, imo.  And they didn't even try except maybe to dye his hair red.  But he got the speech inflections so right it was uncanny.

Edited October 11, 2018 by DearEvette