Race & Ethnicity On TV

[Katsullivan]

1 hour ago, Minneapple said:

It amused me when Empire exploded and she became this hugely popular actress. 

And they capitalized on that, putting her face/image in Person of Interest promos especially on streaming services.

17 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Ugh. don't get me started on Twisted.  Such wasted potential and they did Kylie dirty.  I console myself that the universe tried to make a small reparation by putting her and Avan Jogia together that Tut miniseries so we could actually bask in their chemistry.

TWISTED and SLEEPY HOLLOW are textbook examples of how showrunners would prefer to see a show fail with white leads than succeed with POC leads. 

[phoenics]

23 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

And they capitalized on that, putting her face/image in Person of Interest promos especially on streaming services.

 

Just another example of how black women have to prove their value first to get respect. Meaning TPH had to blow up to Beyonce level proportions for PoI to start promoting her on the show they killed her off on. While ninth billed white actresses get promoted over the black female lead actresses - even if they have zero accolades or real acting credit to their name. 

Real life works the same way. 

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, Minneapple said:

How about Person of Interest. Taraji had to basically fight for herself to be treated with any amount of respect by CBS and the promo department over there.

In her last episode, when she kissed Reese, I was like, "Yup, she's going to die." And yup, she died.

It amused me when Empire exploded and she became this hugely popular actress. 

I remember the season Carter was killed off, CBS has been using  'major death' as their pre-season promo.  Since I knew damn well it wasn't going to be either John or Finch, then it had to either Fusco or Carter.  Most people were sure it was Fusco.  But the minute I heard that Taraji got the sizzle reel at NYC ComicCon ahead of season 3 and everyone was buzzing about it and how bad ass Carter was in it,  And then i saw how much extra face time she was getting on the show for that season, I knew,  I knew she was the one being killed off.

Edited September 19, 2018 by DearEvette

[Dee]

‘Central Park’ Writer Launches ‘Show Us Your Room’ Social Media Initiative

Quote

Just ahead of the 2018 fall television season, a new inclusion initiative has launched on social media.

Entitled #ShowUsYourRoom, the initiative encourages showrunners and writers to post photos of their rooms on Twitter and Instagram, to show “who is actually walking the walk” when it comes to inclusive hiring.

“This is a time where everyone is talking about diversity and inclusion,” Amanda Idoko, a writer on the animated series “Central Park” and founder of the initiative, tells Variety exclusively. “Everyone’s saying they’re promoting diversity and inclusion, but every year the numbers are the same. People are saying they want diversity and inclusion but not actually fighting for it.”

Idoko, who is organizing the initiative in conjunction with the Inclusion and Equity Subcommittee of the WGA Committee of Black Writers, which created and led by Ron McCants, says she was first inspired to take action after seeing the 2017 Hollywood Diversity Report. The report looked at 168 theatrical films and more than 1200 television shows to determine the progress, or lack thereof, of minorities both in front of and behind the camera. It determined that behind-the-scenes, inclusive representation had gone stagnant or taken slight dips in key areas such as creators of cable and streaming series, credited writers of cable series and lead actors on cable series.

“Things aren’t changing because all of these studies and statistics are anonymous. Simply classifying lack of diversity as an industry-wide problem takes away personal accountability and personal incentive for people to actually stand up and fix the problem,” she says.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Dee

[vibeology]

42 minutes ago, Dee said:

‘Central Park’ Writer Launches ‘Show Us Your Room’ Social Media Initiative

I love this but I worry it won't catch on because people will be too ashamed to show off their mostly white and mostly male writers rooms.

[DearEvette]

Heh.  I was looking at the hashtag on twitter.  Yeah, the shows that you can probably guess just from the writing are diverse are the ones proudly posting.  There are loud crickets elsewhere.

Legends of Tomorrow is the only Berlanti-verse show from the CW that posted theirs and I may be projecting but they look like a fun group so no wonder the show is so damned fun.

Surprised by the new Suits spin off show.  It looks like the majority of their writing room is POC.

This Is Us is pretty diverse as well, including  two black women (no wonder Beth has such great lines and the stuff with Deja's hair rang so true)

The new football drama on The CW is also pretty diverse as well.

[BaggythePanther]

3 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Heh.  I was looking at the hashtag on twitter.  Yeah, the shows that you can probably guess just from the writing are diverse are the ones proudly posting.  There are loud crickets elsewhere.

Legends of Tomorrow is the only Berlanti-verse show from the CW that posted theirs and I may be projecting but they look like a fun group so no wonder the show is so damned fun.

Surprised by the new Suits spin off show.  It looks like the majority of their writing room is POC.

This Is Us is pretty diverse as well, including  two black women (no wonder Beth has such great lines and the stuff with Deja's hair rang so true)

The new football drama on The CW is also pretty diverse as well.

I’ve seen pictures of the Arrow writers room before and from what I remember there were a number of women and a few POC. I kind of want to call out the Arrowverse shows that haven’t participated (particularly The Flash) to have them post pictures.

[Trini]

6 minutes ago, BaggythePanther said:

I’ve seen pictures of the Arrow writers room before and from what I remember there were a number of women and a few POC. I kind of want to call out the Arrowverse shows that haven’t participated (particularly The Flash) to have them post pictures.

Not related to the hashtag, but The Flash already had a writers room pic out from earlier this summer:

 

I don't think that's everyone, though.

[BaggythePanther]

@Trini Thanks. BTW, love your avatar picture.

[jenrising]

3 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Legends of Tomorrow is the only Berlanti-verse show from the CW that posted theirs and I may be projecting but they look like a fun group so no wonder the show is so damned fun.

They really do! I want to go out for happy hour with them. 

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I think it's awesome that Maya Rudolph and Fred Armisen are the leads of "Forever", which is cowritten and directed by Alan Yang.  Maya and Fred are both multiracial... they represent at least 4 races together.  

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, Minneapple said:

How about Person of Interest. Taraji had to basically fight for herself to be treated with any amount of respect by CBS and the promo department over there.

In her last episode, when she kissed Reese, I was like, "Yup, she's going to die." And yup, she died.

It amused me when Empire exploded and she became this hugely popular actress. 

 

8 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

And they capitalized on that, putting her face/image in Person of Interest promos especially on streaming services.

TWISTED and SLEEPY HOLLOW are textbook examples of how showrunners would prefer to see a show fail with white leads than succeed with POC leads. 

 

7 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I remember the season Carter was killed off, CBS has been using  'major death' as their pre-season promo.  Since I knew damn well it wasn't going to be either John or Finch, then it had to either Fusco or Carter.  Most people were sure it was Fusco.  But the minute I heard that Taraji got the sizzle reel at NYC ComicCon ahead of season 3 and everyone was buzzing about it and how bad ass Carter was in it,  And then i saw how much extra face time she was getting on the show for that season, I knew,  I knew she was the one being killed off.

Oh, I remember that! I was so pissed off. POI was such a great show and Carter was an awesome character (so were the other three) and I was so ticked off they did that I quit the show. I never watched it again. When it comes up in reruns on TV I always watch up until her character's killed off and stop watching again until all those episodes pass. I cheered when the ratings went down and it got canceled. I did the same thing on Sleepy Hollow when they did it again to Abbie. 

[Trini]

Was Shaw (Sarah Shahi) a regular when they killed Carter off? Because I thought it was terrible that they killed off their one Black regular and their one female regular in one strike. It made more sense story-wise to get rid of Fusco.

---

Speaking of the The Flash, Barry Allen's Black family (which is almost never acknowledged as such) gets a little bigger this year with the addition of his future daughter as a regular. But yeah, they need Black women writers.

[ETA: also check out the unbelievably on point casting]

Edited September 20, 2018 by Trini

[Trini]

Changing the subject a bit:

I don't remember if this was brought up here or in the Hallmark thread, but I know the Hallmark movies have an issue with being all White, all the time. But they just put out their list of Christmas movies, and there are at least 4 with women of color in leading roles. That's only 4 out of 36 though.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Trini

[TwistedandBored]

I don't post here that much but I love reading your thoughts on this subject though. I occasionally have conversations with other posters on this forum about race and representation in all things and how much that matters. Most recently over on Arrow over a funko pop but not here that much. lol.

Anyways, I wanted to ask @phoenics, are they really making Michael on Roswell gay? Like I watched original Roswell and liked M&M together. This is so stupid. 

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, Trini said:

Was Shaw (Sarah Shahi) a regular when they killed Carter off? Because I thought it was terrible that they killed off their one Black regular and their one female regular in one strike. It made more sense story-wise to get rid of Fusco.

---

Speaking of the The Flash, Barry Allen's Black family (which is almost never acknowledged as such) gets a little bigger this year with the addition of his future daughter as a regular. But yeah, they need Black women writers.

[ETA: also check out the unbelievably on point casting]

Her and that stupid Root became regulars. I hated both characters. The show was perfect with Finch, Reese, Fusco and Carter. They made a really great team. She had great chemistry with all three characters and I really think the show needed her. She was the one character on the show who wasn't trying to make up for something they did in their past. It was really nice to have one character like that. Kind of in contrast to the other three.  At the time I thought they were going to kill Fusco off because he was barely on show during season three pushed to the background for Shah and Root. I will never understand why when TPTB have really great show. The ratings are great and then decided to change it. Bring in new people, push the old ones to the side or fire them. Then seem absolutely shocked when the ratings go down and fans are ticked. Why when ratings are good? That is the point right? So why destroy it? Had they not did that the show probably would still be on or gone at least eight seasons.  I didn't sign up to watch Shah and Root. I signed up to watch Finch, Reese, Fusco and Carter. 

[Popples]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Her and that stupid Root became regulars. I hated both characters. The show was perfect with Finch, Reese, Fusco and Carter. They made a really great team. She had great chemistry with all three characters and I really think the show needed her. She was the one character on the show who wasn't trying to make up for something they did in their past. It was really nice to have one character like that. Kind of in contrast to the other three.  At the time I thought they were going to kill Fusco off because he was barely on show during season three pushed to the background for Shah and Root. I will never understand why when TPTB have really great show. The ratings are great and then decided to change it. Bring in new people, push the old ones to the side or fire them. Then seem absolutely shocked when the ratings go down and fans are ticked. Why when ratings are good? That is the point right? So why destroy it? Had they not did that the show probably would still be on or gone at least eight seasons.  I didn't sign up to watch Shah and Root. I signed up to watch Finch, Reese, Fusco and Carter. 

I wish I could like this a million times. Even though I watched until the bitter end, I despised that the last two seasons were essentially "The Shah and Root Show with occasional appearances by some dudes and a dog." What really pissed me off was when I heard that if it weren't for Sarah Shahi getting pregnant, they would have killed off Reese instead of her character being kidnapped. WTF? I won't watch anything "Bad Robot" anymore because of this nonsense.

Taraji definitely has the last laugh, because she's way famous now.

[andromeda331]

7 minutes ago, Popples said:

I wish I could like this a million times. Even though I watched until the bitter end, I despised that the last two seasons were essentially "The Shah and Root Show with occasional appearances by some dudes and a dog." What really pissed me off was when I heard that if it weren't for Sarah Shahi getting pregnant, they would have killed off Reese instead of her character being kidnapped. WTF? I won't watch anything "Bad Robot" anymore because of this nonsense.

Taraji definitely has the last laugh, because she's way famous now.

Yes, she definitely did!

[HunterHunted]

8 hours ago, TwistedandBored said:

Anyways, I wanted to ask @phoenics, are they really making Michael on Roswell gay? Like I watched original Roswell and liked M&M together. This is so stupid. 

Everything I've read says that Alex, not Michael, will be gay, which is fine with me because the original show never knew what to do with him and apparently the books kind of side lined him too.

About Person of Interest, I was ambivalent about Shah/Shaw, but I always hated Root. She was a smug sanctimonious sociopath.

Edited September 20, 2018 by HunterHunted

[phoenics]

21 hours ago, TwistedandBored said:

 

Anyways, I wanted to ask @phoenics, are they really making Michael on Roswell gay? Like I watched original Roswell and liked M&M together. This is so stupid. 

Yep.  Michael is gay - perhaps he will be bi - but according to the review below, he's gay in the pilot and involved with Alex.

12 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Everything I've read says that Alex, not Michael, will be gay, which is fine with me because the original show never knew what to do with him and apparently the books kind of side lined him too.

About Person of Interest, I was ambivalent about Shah/Shaw, but I always hated Root. She was a smug sanctimonious sociopath.

 

Michael is gay and involved with Alex - according to this article (they've apparently seen the pilot):  https://season-zero.com/roswell-the-cw-pilot-preview/

Edited September 21, 2018 by phoenics

[phoenics]

15 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Her and that stupid Root became regulars. I hated both characters. The show was perfect with Finch, Reese, Fusco and Carter. They made a really great team. She had great chemistry with all three characters and I really think the show needed her. She was the one character on the show who wasn't trying to make up for something they did in their past. It was really nice to have one character like that. Kind of in contrast to the other three.  At the time I thought they were going to kill Fusco off because he was barely on show during season three pushed to the background for Shah and Root. I will never understand why when TPTB have really great show. The ratings are great and then decided to change it. Bring in new people, push the old ones to the side or fire them. Then seem absolutely shocked when the ratings go down and fans are ticked. Why when ratings are good? That is the point right? So why destroy it? Had they not did that the show probably would still be on or gone at least eight seasons.  I didn't sign up to watch Shah and Root. I signed up to watch Finch, Reese, Fusco and Carter. 

The reason this happens with shows that have good or even great ratings with black leads and especially black female leads is because TPTB start getting an itchy Tinder finger and think that they could do EVEN BETTER with "proper" all white leads.  There is this unconscious and sometimes conscious racism that leads them to believe that "black led" automatically means lower ratings.  This is also what happened with Sleepy Hollow, which premiered with the highest ratings on Fox since the X-Files and held pretty steady at high numbers until the writing started to backburner the black female lead and then even more after it became obvious the show was trying to test out Colonial Hart 2 Hart with a white actress and the original white male lead.  Same thing happened with Twisted and PoI.

It's basically the bait and switch.  I'm not even sure they're conscious of it - but my guess is they all assume that the ratings will tank with the black female lead, and always come with a backup plan to replace her with a white woman - but when the ratings don't drop and are actually high, they get greedy and try to replace the black female lead anyway for the imaginary higher ratings they THINK they'll get with a white female lead.  OR they get resentful and think a white woman SHOULD be the lead on a highly rated show and the black female lead inherently doesn't deserve it.  In those cases, you'll usually see another white female on the show who is lower billed having nearly the same amount of screentime as the black female lead, constantly breathing down her neck, threatening to take her spot.

[Dee]

NBC Buys Mother-Daughter FBI Drama From Wendy Calhoun & Elizabeth Banks

Quote

NBC has put in development Strong Justice, an hourlong drama from Wendy Calhoun (Empire), Elizabeth Banks and Max Handelman’s Brownstone Productions and Warner Bros. TV.

Written by Calhoun, Strong Justice is inspired by Marlo McGuire Graham and Ethel McGuire. It centers on FBI’s first-ever mother-daughter duo, Special Agents Etta and Memphis Strong, who strive to be exceptional investigators despite sexist and racist hurdles. Both women tackle dangerous cases and fight for equality over two time periods, but their individual pursuits reveal truths that threaten to ruin their role-model legacy.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Dee

[Katsullivan]

19 hours ago, phoenics said:

It's basically the bait and switch.  I'm not even sure they're conscious of it - but my guess is they all assume that the ratings will tank with the black female lead, and always come with a backup plan to replace her with a white woman - but when the ratings don't drop and are actually high, they get greedy and try to replace the black female lead anyway for the imaginary higher ratings they THINK they'll get with a white female lead.  OR they get resentful and think a white woman SHOULD be the lead on a highly rated show and the black female lead inherently doesn't deserve it. 

These are remarkably astute theories. The truth is probably a blend of both. 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Katsullivan

[DearEvette]

11 hours ago, phoenics said:

It's basically the bait and switch.  I'm not even sure they're conscious of it - but my guess is they all assume that the ratings will tank with the black female lead, and always come with a backup plan to replace her with a white woman - but when the ratings don't drop and are actually high, they get greedy and try to replace the black female lead anyway for the imaginary higher ratings they THINK they'll get with a white female lead.  OR they get resentful and think a white woman SHOULD be the lead on a highly rated show and the black female lead inherently doesn't deserve it.  In those cases, you'll usually see another white female on the show who is lower billed having nearly the same amount of screentime as the black female lead, constantly breathing down her neck, threatening to take her spot.

Basically.  Also really short sighted of the producers and the Network.  If they were really paying attention to their demographics, they would have noticed that POI was a big performer in black households in the Nielsen's when Taraji was a lead character.  The show dropped out the top 10 of the demographic in the Nielsens after Taraji left.  And black households, at least according to Nielsen, is a major consumer. Now, it might just be a case where that demographic didn't didn't match their advertisers target group, but in the end that doesn't matter because that is the group that had big eyeballs on your ads and advertisers are willfully ignorant of the purchasing power of the black population and are wedded to that myopia.  But then again it is CBS....

Edited September 21, 2018 by DearEvette

[Scarlett45]

On 9/19/2018 at 11:32 PM, Trini said:

Changing the subject a bit:

I don't remember if this was brought up here or in the Hallmark thread, but I know the Hallmark movies have an issue with being all White, all the time. But they just put out their list of Christmas movies, and there are at least 4 with women of color in leading roles. That's only 4 out of 36 though.

Yes I’m very excited. The hallmark movies are very white, and very heteronormative (two things I’m not) but they often make me smile, and they are emotionally calming. I don’t start watching until Black Friday though. Yay for movies with brown people.

I remember when Christina Milian was a “Disney Surfer”- god I’m old!

[phoenics]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes I’m very excited. The hallmark movies are very white, and very heteronormative (two things I’m not) but they often make me smile, and they are emotionally calming. I don’t start watching until Black Friday though. Yay for movies with brown people.

I remember when Christina Milian was a “Disney Surfer”- god I’m old!

Well I just saw some Hallmark movie being promoted on twitter with Jessica Parker Kennedy (she's biracial - playing Iris/Barry's daughter on The Flash) and Danielle Panabaker.  Guess which actress they tweeted out and which one they ignored like she was a glorified extra?

[GHScorpiosRule]

Regarding Person of Interest. That show was always touted as a show about two broken men and what they were doing to make things better. So yeah, White Guys, but that’s who the show was about: Finch and Reese. Also known as Ben Linus Meets Jesus* and all the promos that I saw featured Emerson and Caviezel.

Taraji was initially a supporting character. From what I could see. And even in the beginning she had far to go before I found her to be credible as Commissioner Gordon to Reese’s Batman.

It’s no secret I LOATHE Amy what’herfqce who played Root, and I DETESTED/HATEDthat psycho baby voiced murderer with the heat of a million gazillion suns. Shaw came second. I stuck with the show until right before the last three episodes. But I bitched and only watched for Reese and Finch. I know what happened to Reese, so I refused to watch it.

I’m happy for Taraji that she found great success after being screwed over by Nolan and company. And their wives. Supposedly it was one of them that asked where were the women on this show, as if Taraji wasn’t there. And then came...Acker and Shahi. Way I heard it or as it was reported, both had hard ons for both and infected an otherwise great show with those two.

Yeah, still bitter. It’s why I only have the first two seasons and ”4C” from season 3.

*TWoP

[andromeda331]

46 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Regarding Person of Interest. That show was always touted as a show about two broken men and what they were doing to make things better. So yeah, White Guys, but that’s who the show was about: Finch and Reese. Also known as Ben Linus Meets Jesus* and all the promos that I saw featured Emerson and Caviezel.

Taraji was initially a supporting character. From what I could see. And even in the beginning she had far to go before I found her to be credible as Commissioner Gordon to Reese’s Batman.

*TWoP

That was what I heard the show was about when they started promoting it. I didn't mind then. Emerson and Caviezel were the only actors I knew on the show and I really wanted to see Emerson playing someone so completely different from Linus. I wasn't sure I'd be able to ever see him as anyone else but I did and I really did love both characters. Finch and Reese were really good characters and I loved seeing their friendship develop. I wasn't sure what to make of Carter at first I didn't know if she'd be the one always hunting them or if they were going to wait longer before she met Reese or what.  But she grew on me pretty fast as did Fusco (one of my favorite parts was watching how Fusco changing). She a lot of really great moments and scenes in just the first season alone.  

Quote

 

It’s no secret I LOATHE Amy what’herfqce who played Root, and I DETESTED/HATEDthat psycho baby voiced murderer with the heat of a million gazillion suns. Shaw came second. I stuck with the show until right before the last three episodes. But I bitched and only watched for Reese and Finch. I know what happened to Reese, so I refused to watch it.

I’m happy for Taraji that she found great success after being screwed over by Nolan and company. And their wives. Supposedly it was one of them that asked where were the women on this show, as if Taraji wasn’t there. And then came...Acker and Shahi. Way I heard it or as it was reported, both had hard ons for both and infected an otherwise great show with those two.

Yeah, still bitter. It’s why I only have the first two seasons and ”4C” from season 3.

 

 

I hadn't heard that it was also their wives who were part of screwing over Taraji and the show. But I'm glad to know it. I like to know all who's responsible so I can hate them all. Don't want to leave anyone out. Yes, I'm still bitter too. Carter was a great character and Root and Shah were horrible. They destroyed a really good show. I mean yes we got the last laugh by the ratings taking a nosedive, Taraji finding great success and the show getting canceled. But I still would have rather had the show. 

[praeceptrix]

Sandra Oh's mom made a splash on the red carpet at the Emmys.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45557198

[jhlipton]

Y'all had to bring up  Sleepy Hollow... [weeps for what might have ben]

On 9/16/2018 at 10:17 PM, Dee said:

Over on Riverdale, Ashleigh Murray and Vanessa Morgan literally just spent a year being constantly harassed all over social media, and fandom at large, for playing unapologetically Black characters on Riverdale; while Ashleigh's characters bandmates, Asha Bromfield & Hayley Law, were virtually downgraded to extras.

And we only see Josie and Toni as props for the white leads.  Veronica will need a singer and Josie comes running.  Now Toni is all about helping Cheryl  (WHY?????)

On 9/19/2018 at 9:32 PM, Trini said:

I don't remember if this was brought up here or in the Hallmark thread, but I know the Hallmark movies have an issue with being all White, all the time. But they just put out their list of Christmas movies, and there are at least 4 with women of color in leading roles. That's only 4 out of 36 though.

I've seen at least one, Wrapped Up In Christmas -- the heroine (Tatyana Ali) is the manager of a mall (whose parent corporation is run by Jackee Harry, and who has a mam, dad and daughter, so 3 black women and one black man) and the hero (Brendan Fehr) is the son of the toy store proprietor (who makes more money wrapping presents?!). As cheesy as any of the other Hallmark movies, but a good cast and a fun (if unbelievable) story.

On 9/20/2018 at 8:36 PM, Dee said:

NBC Buys Mother-Daughter FBI Drama From Wendy Calhoun & Elizabeth Banks

As mother and daughter???  There must be another Elizabeth Banks, or it's step-mom and step-daughter.

[biakbiak]

5 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

As mother and daughter???  There must be another Elizabeth Banks, or it's step-mom and step-daughter.

They are developing the show not starring in it. 

[galax-arena]

Sandra Oh's mom made a splash on the red carpet at the Emmys.

:D I love little old ladies in hanboks! 

[jhlipton]

6 hours ago, biakbiak said:

They are developing the show not starring in it. 

That makes more sense.

[DearEvette]

19 hours ago, jhlipton said:

've seen at least one, Wrapped Up In Christmas -- the heroine (Tatyana Ali) is the manager of a mall (whose parent corporation is run by Jackee Harry, and who has a mam, dad and daughter, so 3 black women and one black man) and the hero (Brendan Fehr) is the son of the toy store proprietor (who makes more money wrapping presents?!). As cheesy as any of the other Hallmark movies, but a good cast and a fun (if unbelievable) story.

Naw. That was a Lifetime movie.  Not Hallmark.  People very pointedly mentioned to Hallmark on twitter and FB that see... non-white people can be happy and in love at Christmas too.

[ursula]

On 9/16/2018 at 1:35 PM, phoenics said:

 

I also took a look at how the show is promoting the stars - you'd NEVER know the actress playing the black Zod (Georgina Campbell) was the female lead because the promotion is basically all the white female character. 

I noticed this with the recent promo for The Good Doctor. Antonia Thomas is the female lead but you can't tell from the promo because she's in a blink-and-you'll-miss-it shot. In the Korean original, her character was the lead's love interest but here, that role has been replaced by a white actress, and she and Shawn are siblings just friends. ?

It's getting to the point where I can't feel excited about a black actress getting a lead role anymore.

[Trini]

1 hour ago, ursula said:

I noticed this with the recent promo for The Good Doctor. Antonia Thomas is the female lead but you can't tell from the promo because she's in a blink-and-you'll-miss-it shot. In the Korean original, her character was the lead's love interest but here, that role has been replaced by a white actress, and she and Shawn are siblings just friends. ?

Is she a lead? Because when I watched the first season, it was essentially Shaun(Freddie Highmore), and everyone else as supporting characters who got their own storylines depending on the episode. Shaun's closest/most important relationship is with Dr. Glassman(Richard Schiff) I'd say he's almost the secondary lead.

In any case, I wouldn't count Claire(Thomas) out as a love interest just because they're friends now; they've been building up their relationship bit by bit, and she's the one Shaun has the closest connection to out of the all doctors.

[ursula]

4 hours ago, Trini said:

Is she a lead?

That you need to ask is basically my point.

[biakbiak]

24 minutes ago, ursula said:

That you need to ask is basically my point.

David Shore has always stated that other than the pilot he had planned on deviating completely from the series so I don’t think she was ever intended to be the female lead.

Edited September 24, 2018 by biakbiak

[Trini]

6 hours ago, ursula said:

11 hours ago, Trini said:

Is she a lead?

That you need to ask is basically my point.

My question was semi-rhetorical. From my viewing of the show, she is not (and never was) a lead.

That's not to say she isn't an important character, but the show clearly centers around Shaun/Highmore. (They did make it a bit more an ensemble as the season went on, though.)

Edited September 24, 2018 by Trini

[DearEvette]

12 hours ago, ursula said:

I noticed this with the recent promo for The Good Doctor. Antonia Thomas is the female lead but you can't tell from the promo because she's in a blink-and-you'll-miss-it shot. In the Korean original, her character was the lead's love interest but here, that role has been replaced by a white actress, and she and Shawn are siblings just friends. ?

She's the highest billed female actress, but overall she is third bill.  I never got the impression she was supposed to be a lead and the show doesn't support it. The show is very much a Freddie Highmore star vehicle  with everyone else being supporting. 

[ursula]

@Trini

@biakbiak 

@DearEvette

And again, you're all arguing my own point for me. No, she's not the lead, but - if we want to be very technical - she is the top-billed female actor and she's not written or promoted as such. That her appearance is 0.2 seconds in a season promo? That the second most important character on the show isn't the second-billed actor - another POC - or the third-billed and first-billed WOC - but another white man? That the adaptation made the "creative decision" to split the original LI character into 2 - with the Black half  playing the platonic professional buddy and the White half playing the LI role? None of these things just happened anymore than it just "happened" to Carter in POI, Lyta Zod in Krypton, Bonnie/Bamon in TVD or Iris/Westallen in Flash. The Flash is actually a great example of the "it's really just a vehicle for the title character" excuse. Technically, Patton isn't the female lead of that show either. She's not promoted as the female lead, and she and Panabacker are always up for the same awards.

[biakbiak]

My only point was that comparing her character on the American version of the show to that of the Korean version makes no sense to me because the show runner stated that they were completely deviating from the original after the pilot.

[ursula]

11 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

My only point was that comparing her character on the American version of the show to that of the Korean version makes no sense to me because the show runner stated that they were completely deviating from the original after the pilot.

I don't really understand  your point though.  Are you saying that it makes no sense to compare/examine/analyze that a previous romantic role becomes platonic when it's cast with a black woman? Indeed, going back to my original comment: regardless of the changes in the adaptation, Antonia Thomas is still the highest billed female character and she got 0.2 seconds in a promo that featured everyone else significantly.

Edited September 24, 2018 by ursula

[biakbiak]

Just now, ursula said:

Are you saying that it makes no sense to compare/examine/analyze that a previous romantic role becomes platonic when it's cast with a black woman?

No I am saying it makes no sense to me to compare the roles in both versions because the shows aren’t the same and weren’t intended to be the same regardless of casting.

[Trini]

48 minutes ago, ursula said:

I don't really understand  your point though.  Are you saying that it makes no sense to compare/examine/analyze that a previous romantic role becomes platonic when it's cast with a black woman? Indeed, going back to my original comment: regardless of the changes in the adaptation, Antonia Thomas is still the highest billed female character and she got 0.2 seconds in a promo that featured everyone else significantly.

Sure, but 'highest billed [gender x]' is not the same as 'lead'. But I agree that she should be promoted as much everyone else.

And we'll have to see if the relationship stays platonic, because they've already hinted that it could grow into something more. (As for the other love interest, she's already proven herself to be kind of a flake, so I'm not convinced it's going to last.)

[ursula]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

No I am saying it makes no sense to me to compare the roles in both versions because the shows aren’t the same and weren’t intended to be the same regardless of casting.

The roles being different is the misogynoir but I really don't know how to explain it clearer than what I've already said.

[DearEvette]

3 hours ago, Trini said:

Sure, but 'highest billed [gender x]' is not the same as 'lead'. But I agree that she should be promoted as much everyone else.

I think the season 2 trailer is a bit of a misnomer.  It is less a promo of the whole season and more a promo for the first episode of S2.  They are continuing two storylines that they started in the finale of S1 that are not Claire centric.  But in each weakly promo throughout last season, she had pretty good facetime.  And in the episodes that centered her, she was promo'd. 

I absolutely agree that H'wood and tv has an abysmal track record wrt their WOC characters and using their images in  promo and/or ghosting their characters in their storylines.  I just don't think that is the case in this particular show.  The show has been very clear from its inception who is the lead and what the show is about, a show about a doctor with asperger's.  That said Antonia has gotten some very meaty storylines in her own subplots, she's driven the narrative, she has been given her own family backstory which informs her character to some extent, and the show has allowed her some gratifying complexity.  It has actually justified her third billing in a largely ensemble cast.

Yeah, them casting the stereotypical manic pixie dream girl for Shaun's love interest is really rather eye-roll worthy.   I have been on record in the GD forums that I can't stand that character.  But I am rather glad they opted against a romance with Shaun and Claire right out of the gate.  I am loving the building blocks of their friendship.  If the show later decides to go that route, I'd be fine with it because I  think the characters would have built a foundation on top of a deep friendship and I think it would feel like they earned the romance and the audience would be completely invested in it.

Now, On a completely different note...

I wonder if Lifetime's horning in on what used to be solely Hallmark's turf with the Christmas Rom-Com tv movies is what finally caused Hallmark to step up their diversity and inclusion?  Because Lifetime has unveiled their slew of Christmas movie offerrings and they have at least four movies with non-white leads.

[Trini]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

Now, On a completely different note...

I wonder if Lifetime's horning in on what used to be solely Hallmark's turf with the Christmas Rom-Com tv movies is what finally caused Hallmark to step up their diversity and inclusion?  Because Lifetime has unveiled their slew of Christmas movie offerrings and they have at least four movies with non-white leads.

Oooh, one of those has Kareem Hardison and Jasmine Guy (not the leads, though). Mini ADW reunion!

[Dee]

ABC Developing ‘PANK’ Drama Series From Felicia D. Henderson & Darryl Taja

Quote

In the one-hour drama, written by Henderson, thirty-three-year-old Faith Jones is living and lovin’ her life as a PANK: Professional Auntie No Kids. A new guy, a new promotion, a new house, a fast car, and plenty of disposable income. It’s kinda perfect… Until the unexpected happens and circumstances force her to care for her brother’s three children. How will this childless by choice, bad-ass PANK tackle raising three kids, while also maintaining the life she worked so hard to create.

[phoenics]

8 hours ago, ursula said:

@Trini

@biakbiak 

@DearEvette

And again, you're all arguing my own point for me. No, she's not the lead, but - if we want to be very technical - she is the top-billed female actor and she's not written or promoted as such. That her appearance is 0.2 seconds in a season promo? That the second most important character on the show isn't the second-billed actor - another POC - or the third-billed and first-billed WOC - but another white man? That the adaptation made the "creative decision" to split the original LI character into 2 - with the Black half  playing the platonic professional buddy and the White half playing the LI role? None of these things just happened anymore than it just "happened" to Carter in POI, Lyta Zod in Krypton, Bonnie/Bamon in TVD or Iris/Westallen in Flash. The Flash is actually a great example of the "it's really just a vehicle for the title character" excuse. Technically, Patton isn't the female lead of that show either. She's not promoted as the female lead, and she and Panabacker are always up for the same awards.

I agree with you except Candice Patton IS the female lead of The Flash.  That's been straightened out.  Now - I agree that the show hasn't done right by CP at all and that she has DP with nearly the same amount of screentime is indicative of the issues you are talking about.  But officially - yes, CP is the lead female of The Flash.  Just like KC was the female lead of Arrow before she was killed off.  And now, EBR is the female lead of Arrow.  You can tell the difference because contractually, leads MUST be in EVERY episode of a show.  GG And CP are the ONLY actors who are in absolutely every episode.  In fact, during the Flash portion of the crossover in S2 of The Flash, they gave Iris 1 stupid line in the crossover - pretty sure if they could have cut her out completely they would have - but contractually SHE HAD to have a line and be in the episode.

There's a lot of BTS gossip that CP finally got her management and the show to nail down that she was the undisputed female lead and she should be promoted as such.  

But I agree with the spirit of your post in general.  For so many of these shows, the black women leads are erased and white women or men are propped up in their place.  The only show I was partly okay with this for was Merlin because it was told from Merlin's point of view and the primary relationship was Arthur/Merlin as the bromance of the show.  I thought the show did an okay job of giving Gwen agency and showcasing her relationship with Arthur (I would have loved even more lol).  But I understood that it was Merlin/Arthur and Arthur/Gwen, Merlin/Gaius, Merlin/Other and  Arthur/Other in terms of order of importance.  But The Flash isn't the same - Iris SHOULD have major prominence because without her, the Flash family wouldn't exist.