Race & Ethnicity On TV

[jhlipton]

21 hours ago, possibilities said:

I wish there was even one show on that list that I wanted to actually watch.

I watch Ghosted, The Gifted, The Good Doctor, The Inhumans, and Wisdom of the Crowd.  Ghosted took a few episodes to get going, but Craig Robinson makes everything better.  The Good Doctor isn't bad, albeit not true to hospitals nor to those on the Aspeberger's Spectrum.  I thought it was going to be Dougie HOUSEer -- it's a lot more House than Dougie.  The Gifted and Wisdom of the Crowd are pretty meh -- I wouldn't miss either if I stopped watching (WotC bothers me more since the predictions are always 100% accurate -- outliers, anyone?).  The less said about The Inhumans the better (although it makes the forum fun!)

[galax-arena]

I wish Sydney Park could get something that was on a better platform than Youtube Red. 

[Miss Dee]

I hope it's okay for me to bring this up in here.

One of the things I've been learning about in this thread and elsewhere is the role of colorism and how it relates to racism and racial prejudice. Once it was pointed out to me, I couldn't help but see that in almost everything I watch, whenever two (hetero, cis) black people were on screen as a couple the woman almost always had lighter skin than the man did.

Another thing I've learned in this thread and elsewhere is that lighting for TV and movies has been configured for white skin and it's only really now this is becoming scrutinized and fixed in a few shows (e.g. Queen Sugar). So maybe what I've been seeing is somewhat altered by that, but I think for the most part it's accurate.

So that's why it struck me when I watched The Gifted last week that Coby Bell's Jace Turner - who, from the context clues I got from the show, is a black character (I know Bell's played characters before where his race was ambiguous, at least textually) - is lighter-skinned than his wife Paula (played by Frances Turner). It could literally be a trick of the light, but I think so. I'm hoping I'm correct in thinking that's positive representation.

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, Miss Dee said:

So that's why it struck me when I watched The Gifted last week that Coby Bell's Jace Turner - who, from the context clues I got from the show, is a black character (I know Bell's played characters before where his race was ambiguous, at least textually) - is lighter-skinned than his wife Paula (played by Frances Turner). It could literally be a trick of the light, but I think so. I'm hoping I'm correct in thinking that's positive representation.

Frances Turner is definitely Black:

 

We've had the discussion on this forum of Darker Men/Lighter Women (which I agree with you is the norm) and Lighter Men/Darker Women, and the issues of colorism raised.  It was interesting to see the different perspectives in the comments.

[Raja]

I don't think Coby Bell of The Gifted   race came up on Burning Notice. On Third Watch his father in flashbacks was a dark skinned man while Vonetta McGee played his mother 

[Dee]

Race In The Writers Room: How Hollywood Whitewashes the Stories that Shape America

Quote

The report demonstrates that the executives running television platforms today—both traditional networks and emerging streaming sites—are not hiring Black showrunners, which results in excluding or isolating Black writers in writers rooms and in the creative process.

Over 90% of showrunners are white, two-thirds of shows had no Black writers at all, and another 17% of shows had just one Black writer. The ultimate result of this exclusion is the widespread reliance on Black stereotypes to drive Black character portrayals, where Black characters even exist at all—at best, “cardboard” characters, at worst, unfair, inaccurate and dehumanizing portrayals.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Dee

[jhlipton]

Quote

The report demonstrates that the executives running television platforms today—both traditional networks and emerging streaming sites—are not hiring Black showrunners, which results in excluding or isolating Black writers in writers rooms and in the creative process.

Over 90% of showrunners are white, two-thirds of shows had no Black writers at all, and another 17% of shows had just one Black writer. The ultimate result of this exclusion is the widespread reliance on Black stereotypes to drive Black character portrayals, where Black characters even exist at all—at best, “cardboard” characters, at worst, unfair, inaccurate and dehumanizing portrayals.

SyFy was already leading the way, with far more true diversity than any of the nets, and with Jamie Broadnax (of Black Girl Nerds)on board, it should only get better.

Consider the origins of two Black immortals.  Lem on Midnight, Texas, was a slave.  Ho Hum.  Isaac on Superstition, was a Moor who had traveled to Jerusalem and fought for Saladin.  Either of those (being a Moor or fighting for Saladin) is unusual; put them together and you get something never seen on TV.

[Dee]

Freeform Developing ‘In Case of Emergency’ EMT Drama From ‘FOTB’ Writer, Circle of Confusion & eOne

Quote

In Case of Emergency is a darkly comedic look at the life of Harper Gallagher, a beautiful, funny and strong millennial who is a work superhero and a mere young mortal in her personal life. She takes on the world of EMTs in a tough part of South L.A. all the while finding out who she is as a woman entering adulthood. The show will follow Harper discovering herself and how the many parts of her world intersect.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 11/1/2017 at 9:27 AM, Miss Dee said:

Another thing I've learned in this thread and elsewhere is that lighting for TV and movies has been configured for white skin and it's only really now this is becoming scrutinized and fixed in a few shows (e.g. Queen Sugar). So maybe what I've been seeing is somewhat altered by that, but I think for the most part it's accurate.

I don't know if you've already this (I posted it in the Insecure forum a few months ago):
keeping Insecure lit: HBO cinematographer Ava Berkofsky on properly lighting black faces

[Neurochick]

On October 23, 2017 at 2:48 AM, Dee said:

It's Shondaland dramas that make incestuous relationship drama the main focus of their show. The majority of their shows are so centered on incessant romantic pairings that any two actors can't share scenes together without fans immediately assuming their characters are about to be paired.

Empire has relationship issues, to put it mildly, but work and family is largely the central focus imo.

I am just reading this now and this is a very good point.  Shondaland shows are more relationship centered than a show like Empire.  Empire is about just that, the Lyons' Empire, there are relationships in the show, but the main focus is the Empire itself.  Shonda's shows tend to be about who is sleeping with/breaking up with who.  

 

On October 23, 2017 at 2:48 AM, Dee said:

Frankly, it's Pete Nowalk and Shonda Rhimes who don't know how to write Black female characters who aren't largely stereotypical.

Just because their characters work white collar jobs doesn't make them any less stereotypical.

This is an interesting comment.  IMO, black female characters aren't allowed the same range of emotions that white, female characters have.  For instance, I've noticed that black, female characters are often the ones who have to take care of everybody, this is true in How To Get Away With Murder, Annalise takes care of her students, while Michaela now has to take care of Asher and Laurel and even Connor at times.  When is a black, female character allowed to be weak and vulnerable?  

On Queen Sugar, that may be happening as one of the characters has been diagnosed with Lupus, she tried to keep it from her boyfriend, but when he found out he told her that they'll deal with it together.  I thought that was a good scene, because it did show a black woman as being weak and vulnerable, which is something not often seen on network TV.

[possibilities]

I consider Beth, on This is Us, to be more or less the perfect human, but it's true we've yet to really see her be vulnerable. Even giving birth she didn't look tired or get needy. I want to kill people who don't like her, but I also think she deserves a break.

Annalise Keating is another story entirely. She's a badass but she's also a total mess. She's in AA, she goes to therapy and 12 step meetings, she asks for favors from people who hate her because she's desperate for work. In season 1, her mother showed up and took care of her when Anna couldn't get out of bed due to trauma and grief. Last season when she was in jail, she needed to be helped by another inmate because she was out of her depths. She's had at least one nervous/drug-filled breakdown where she was hallucinating and Bonnie protected her. We've seen her fall apart and ugly cry on multiple occasions, including in front of other people; we know she attempted suicide in the past and was found and revived by someone who cared about her; Eve, her ex, still loves her even though Annalise left her, and she still shows up years later to help when Anna's in legal trouble; last season we saw one of her students (Wes) take care of Anna when she was puking drunk and completely pathetic. In previous seasons we saw Nate, another of her lovers, support her even after she had him framed for a crime and nearly ruined his life-- and Nate is no slouch in the strong, sexy, competent department, so it's not like he chose to do that because he had no other options. That show is one where everyone is corrupt and everyone is a mess, and no one manages to get through the season without having to rescue or be rescued from some seriously extreme stuff.

HTGAWM also has Soraya, Anna's former boss; she's a recovering alcoholic and a tough, smart, competent person, but she needs help to keep her kids after a custody challenge, and she is really desperate about it. So that's another time that a Black woman on that show is vulnerable and gets support. You can also list some of Anna's clients, who are Black women who are vulnerable and get support, but most of them are not main characters. And though it's somewhat stereotypical to portray black people in jail, these women are very much humanized and not condescended to by the show, and are usually portrayed as deserving of help.

There are problems with HTGAWM, but lack of Black female vulnerability I think is not really a fair criticism.

Edited November 4, 2017 by possibilities

[BoogieBurns]

5 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I consider Beth, on This is Us, to be more or less the perfect human,

Every episode thread this season of TIU has people calling Beth "angry" or "cold". She's the warmest and most precious person in the ensemble. IMO, the only reason people see her as angry is because she's black. She's probably the seventh angriest person in a cast of 8. *eye roll to the haters*

[DearEvette]

I know reading around various tv show board on various social media, it sometimes seems that black women just can't win when it comes to perception.  They have to be strong. But if they are too strong they are derided for not being vulnerable.  If they are too vulnerable, they are derided for not being strong enough.  If they are given an opinion that puts them in opposition with a popular (usually lead) character they are 'mean' or 'angry' or 'annoying.'

Women characters in fan spaces always seem to have it harder than male characters anyway, but with WOC characters it almost seems like the line they have to walk to be 'liked' is so very, very fine.

That said... I adore Beth.  Beth is Fiyah!  And I love that the adoption storyline is as much hers and it is Randall's.  One more reason I miss Pitch is because Evelyn (who the wife of another baseball player, Flip) was like Beth's sister from another mister.  Ginny was great, by Evelyn was awesome.

I also have to give The Flash props this season.  So far, Iris is in charge of Team Flash and Candace Patton really looks like is flourishing in the role. Given how little she had to do in the previous seasons, it would have been easy for Iris to be reviled, but her fan base is mighty and loud and organized.

[Neurochick]

14 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

 

I know reading around various tv show board on various social media, it sometimes seems that black women just can't win when it comes to perception.  They have to be strong. But if they are too strong they are derided for not being vulnerable.  If they are too vulnerable, they are derided for not being strong enough.  If they are given an opinion that puts them in opposition with a popular (usually lead) character they are 'mean' or 'angry' or 'annoying.'

 

And these same people will swear up and down that they're not racists.

[festivus]

36 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I know reading around various tv show board on various social media, it sometimes seems that black women just can't win when it comes to perception.  They have to be strong. But if they are too strong they are derided for not being vulnerable.  If they are too vulnerable, they are derided for not being strong enough.  If they are given an opinion that puts them in opposition with a popular (usually lead) character they are 'mean' or 'angry' or 'annoying.'

I've seen this with the character of Michonne on Walking Dead. If she's not being big bad warrior chick people will have a problem with that. When she had her breakdown moment of frozen fear when she thought Rick had died she got herself ripped a new one for that. You can be for or against her relationship with Rick, I don't care.* People have their reasons on that. But I thought that was a very human moment and I wondered if she would be getting ripped a new one so hard if she were white. It felt like she's Ms Bad Ass (Black) Warrior Lady, she's not allowed to have a very human moment. 

 

* ETA: Wanted to clarify. I do have a problem if it's for racist reasons but I mean I don't care if people are against the relationship for other reasons. Like Rick is batshit insane for one example. ;)

Edited November 5, 2017 by festivus

[Dee]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

One more reason I miss Pitch is because Evelyn (who the wife of another baseball player, Flip) was like Beth's sister from another mister.  Ginny was great, by Evelyn was awesome.

Dude, I miss Evelyn SO much. Fox totally should've given Meagan Holder and Mo McRae a spinoff (The Sanders!) after Pitch was canceled.

[Dee]

2 hours ago, festivus said:

I've seen this with the character of Michonne on Walking Dead.

You haven't seen full denial of a Black Female Character's humanity unless you've watched True Blood imo.

The way a HUGE swath of TB's fandom celebrated after Tara was murdered was sickening.

[festivus]

8 hours ago, Dee said:

You haven't seen full denial of a Black Female Character's humanity unless you've watched True Blood imo.

The way a HUGE swath of TB's fandom celebrated after Tara was murdered was sickening.

Oh, I did see that and it made me sick. Tara was my favorite character and I remember the hatred of her on the boards.  That's another show I'll never watch again because of how horrible it became but at least it introduced me to the beautiful and talented Rutina Wesley who I am a big fan of. 

[jhlipton]

9 hours ago, Dee said:

Dude, I miss Evelyn SO much. Fox totally should've given Meagan Holder and Mo McRae a spinoff (The Sanders!) after Pitch was canceled.

I miss Pitch itself, but Biff and Evelyn were a big part of that.  The way that they handled the All-Star Game was everything. (And Kylie Bunbury is gorgeous!!!)

57 minutes ago, festivus said:

at least it introduced me to the beautiful and talented Rutina Wesley who I am a big fan of. 

Me too -- Nova, for all her faults, is so beautiful! And Rutina makes her a real person.

[Dee]

Ashley & Andy Williams talk their new 'Flip or Flop' series, giving back & being a voice for veterans

[jhlipton]

This week on "Shows I Don't Watch":

Iris West is apparently leading Team Flash. which is way cool.

On the ads for Riverdale, there were shots of about 5 white women, long enough to see clearly.  There was one split-second (two frames, I think) of a black woman, and she had a white woman with her.  So very not cool.

[topanga]

Tiffany Haddish will host SNL on Saturday. She’ll be on the short list of black women who have hosted the show in its 40 year history.

The number of Latino and Latina hosts is even worse—and that number includes Cameron Diaz, Ariana Grande, and Louis CK, whom many people forget are Latino  

Has there been an Asian or Asian-American female host besides Lucy Liu in 2000?

[DearEvette]

Nope Lucy Liu is the only Asian female.  Men have been: Jackie Chan, Aziz Ansari, and most recently Kumail Nanjiani.  Both Aziz and Kumail were this year.

It is very short sighted of them that they haven't had Constance Wu. She's a delight.

I just learned that Tiffany is the only black comedienne to host the show.  How the hell has Whoopi Goldberg at least has never been an SNL host?

[topanga]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

Nope Lucy Liu is the only Asian female.  Men have been: Jackie Chan, Aziz Ansari, and most recently Kumail Nanjiani.  Both Aziz and Kumail were this year.

It is very short sighted of them that they haven't had Constance Wu. She's a delight.

I just learned that Tiffany is the only black comedienne to host the show.  How the hell has Whoopi Goldberg at least has never been an SNL host?

That stinks.  No Whoopi? 

I agree about Constance Wu. And no Mindy Kaling?

[jhlipton]

Not only has Margaret Cho never hosted, but in one animated sketch she was voiced by Amy ("Never Funny") Poehler.  Geez.

Edited November 9, 2017 by jhlipton

[DearEvette]

Here is a nice write up/oral history about the making of Cinderella starring Brandy and Whitney Houston as told by all the people involved.  I especially liked this line:

Quote

"The hardest role to fill was the Stepmother... I cannot emphasize enough what a bitch it was to cast this role. No white actress wanted to be seen as being mean to the black Cinderella."

[Dee]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

It is very short sighted of them that they haven't had Constance Wu. She's a delight.

This. I've had her (and Randall Park) on on my SNL Guest Host Wish List for a couple of seasons now.

I'd also like to see Dawn Lyen Gardner, Sandra Oh and/or Rinko Kikuchi (who is adorable) get the chance to guest host too.

[topanga]

2 hours ago, Dee said:

This. I've had her (and Randall Park) on on my SNL Guest Host Wish List for a couple of seasons now.

I'd also like to see Dawn Lyen Gardner, Sandra Oh and/or Rinko Kikuchi (who is adorable) get the chance to guest host too.

John MF-ing Cho! He was hilarious on the short-lived show Selfie. 

[Silver Raven]

5 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Men have been: Jackie Chan, Aziz Ansari, and most recently Kumail Nanjiani.  Both Aziz and Kumail were this year.

And Bruno Mars in 2012.

[BoogieBurns]

5 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

And Bruno Mars in 2012.

He covers like 4 categories, and we all claim him as needed. But the journalists usually mention him as a footnote since his race is basically "other". 

So many POC need to host. They should have only POC hosts for the rest of the season. So many yummy ones. Idris, Mindy, Sterling K Brown, John Cho, Riz Ahmed, Donald M-Fing Glover, Rashida (duh), Yvette Nicole Brown, ANYONE in the Black Panther film or Wrinkle in Time, all the ones you folks mentioned above, and easily 30 more.

[Trini]

Well, if we're counting Bruno, can we count The Rock (Dwayne Johnson), too? :)

[slf]

Yesterday I was trying to remember the name of a movie I saw as a kid about a Native family, mom and three kids, forced to leave the reservation they lived on. During my internet search for it - turns out it's a made-for-tv movie called Grand Avenue, produced by Robert Redford for HBO - I realized I've probably seen more tv shows (and movies) with white incestuous couples than Native characters (especially couples/families). It was jarring.

[jhlipton]

3 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

So many POC need to host.

The entire casts of Queen Sugar and Greenleaf, too.  Even Jason "Basie Skanks" Dirden and GregAlan "Robert "Mac" McCready" Williams plays did great jobs playing despicable people.

Edited November 10, 2017 by jhlipton

[xaxat]

Ava DuVernay recently talked about the subsidized studio diversity programs. (She's not a fan.) But this is the line that caught my eye. 

Quote

Almost every major broadcast network

Spoiler

(except CBS)

have “diversity slot” programs that subsidize a writer of color to join the writers room of each scripted show,

But you can't guess who the exception is?

[ChromaKelly]

15 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

He covers like 4 categories, and we all claim him as needed. But the journalists usually mention him as a footnote since his race is basically "other". 

So many POC need to host. They should have only POC hosts for the rest of the season. So many yummy ones. Idris, Mindy, Sterling K Brown, John Cho, Riz Ahmed, Donald M-Fing Glover, Rashida (duh), Yvette Nicole Brown, ANYONE in the Black Panther film or Wrinkle in Time, all the ones you folks mentioned above, and easily 30 more.

This is really laying it out there. All these stars have not hosted, and we've had some of the blandest, un-funny white celebrities host, some multiple times. 

[arc]

CBS runs a live theater sketch showcase to promote diversity in LA. It last five months every year. It’s not directly related to TV, but this story about how messed up it is made me share it here because the two biggest problems with the showcase were the program’s director* — and the casting director, who is also CBS’s VP of casting.

* the director was forced out a month ago for sexual harassment complaints.

Quote

But in the wake of the resignation of the program’s director last month over accusations of sexual harassment, Vulture has learned that the five-month-long program’s issues go deeper than that. Participants say the program often leaves participants feeling dejected and bullied at the hands of leaders they say view them stereotypically and insist that their work revolve around outdated racist, gender-based, or homophobic tropes.

[xaxat]

So CBS had a literal Black Acting School.

 

[topanga]

18 hours ago, xaxat said:

 

So CBS had a literal Black Acting School.

 

Funny yet sad. ‘Hollywood Shuffle’ is the best. And, unfortunately, still so relevant. 

[jhlipton]

Speaking of PoC hosting SNL: Anyone watch Tiffany Haddish last night?  You can see her sketches here.

[Dee]

Jason Momoa wants to host SNL

MAKE IT HAPPEN LORNE!

[topanga]

On 11/12/2017 at 6:29 PM, jhlipton said:

Speaking of PoC hosting SNL: Anyone watch Tiffany Haddish last night?  You can see her sketches here.

The sketches didn’t blow me away, but that’s the writing.  Tiffany was great—I love her energy and comedic timing.

[proserpina65]

5 hours ago, topanga said:

The sketches didn’t blow me away, but that’s the writing.  Tiffany was great—I love her energy and comedic timing.

Her opening monologue was scattershot, but some of it was damned funny.  Funnier than Larry David's at any rate.  And the sketch where she was the character in the video game was pretty funny too.

Edited November 14, 2017 by proserpina65

[jhlipton]

Legends of Tomorrow has three PoC (2 of them women) in the main cast now, and the women tend to be more "kick-ass" than then men.  In the episode before last ("The Return of the Mack"), "The bulk of this week's plot was shouldered by Amaya [black] and Zari [Middle Eastern].  Take a moment with that. Two women of color were the main focus of the hero plot while everything else was extraneous. Honestly, god bless the Berlanti shows for their diversity." From Doux Reviews: Legends of Tomorrow -- Return of the Mack.

[DollEyes]

On 11/9/2017 at 11:36 PM, jhlipton said:

The entire casts of Queen Sugar and Greenleaf, too.  Even Jason "Basie Skanks" Dirden and GregAlan "Robert "Mac" McCready" Williams plays did great jobs playing despicable people.

Whole casts don't host SNL. They only pick people who are either already A-list or who have potential and the only person on the OWN network at this point who does besides Oprah & Tyler Perry is Kofi Siriboe because he's got a hit show (Queen Sugar), a hit movie (Girls' Trip) & he's a sex symbol because of them, so if the producers are gonna  pick anyone from an OWN show, than chances are it'll be him.

Edited November 20, 2017 by DollEyes

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, DollEyes said:

Whole casts don't host SNL. They only pick people who are either already A-list or who have potential and the only person on the OWN network at this point who does besides Oprah & Tyler Perry is Kofi Siriboe

I didn't mean that the whole cast would host SNL.  I meant they could pick any of the leads from either show to host.  Keith David and Lynn Whitfield are both well-known and respected actors.   Merle Dandridge has been a number of movies and Broadway shows.  Omar Dorsey is another choice.  The point is that there is a large pool of actors of color that could host SNL, and that they're not says a lot.

[biakbiak]

Did anyone watch The Problem with Apu on TruTv? I thought it was excellent and hope people check it out. Hari Kondabolu explores the problem of the character of Apu from The Simpsons from the perspective of Indians.

[Jaded]

2 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Did anyone watch The Problem with Apu on TruTv? I thought it was excellent and hope people check it out. Hari Kondabolu explores the problem of the character of Apu from The Simpsons from the perspective of Indians.

I forgot it was supposed to be on. It was just on again but I didn't notice on the TitanTV listings until it was 30 min in. I have it set to record when it airs next tonight at 6pm ct.

[DollEyes]

4 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I didn't mean that the whole cast would host SNL.  I meant they could pick any of the leads from either show to host.  Keith David and Lynn Whitfield are both well-known and respected actors.   Merle Dandridge has been a number of movies and Broadway shows.  Omar Dorsey is another choice.  The point is that there is a large pool of actors of color that could host SNL, and that they're not says a lot.

While ITA that there are very talented actors on those shows, being chosen to host SNL isn't just about talent; it's also about fame.  By Lorne Michaels' standards, apparently there are three kinds of fame:" Young" famous, "Old" famous & "White" famous, the latter of which means that a person of color is so famous that even White people know who they are. While LM may not watch QS nor Greenleaf, chances are he has seen Girls' Trip, hence Tiffany Haddish's recently hosting SNL & Siriboe's possibly being chosen to host in the future.

Edited November 20, 2017 by DollEyes

[Bastet]

8 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Did anyone watch The Problem with Apu on TruTv? I thought it was excellent and hope people check it out. Hari Kondabolu explores the problem of the character of Apu from The Simpsons from the perspective of Indians.

I haven't watched it yet, but hearing Kondabolu interviewed about it on NPR Friday got me really interested in it.  Thanks for the reminder (and recommendation).

[DearEvette]

Started watching Marvel's Runaways on Hulu.  Goodly ethnic mix of characters, one black kid, one Asian kid, one Latina kid and 3 white kids.  it also includes their parents.  I haven't read the comic so I am not sure how close it is to the source material, but I have the admit the parents storyline is the one that is the most interesting.  They're evil but in an interesting way and there is some mystery there too.  The first three eps are up and it is pretty good.  I love the Asian mom, Tina , and the black mom Catherine the best.  They have some great snarky lines and some really excellent eye-roll action.

One thing that make me kinda sigh though is the casting of the kids as their younger selves.  The younger set are all like 16 or 17 years old now, but there is a flashback in the third episode of when they were much younger.  For the most part the younger kids casting is good and looks like they could be the younger selves of the older teens.  Except the black kid.  Sigh.  There is no way a kid with that dark of a skin tone is going to grow up to lighten up to the much lighter skin tone of the teenager. Kinda reminds me of the actress who played young Jenny on Sleepy Hollow.  Looked nothing like how Lynndie Greenwood should've looked at that age.