Race & Ethnicity On TV

[jhlipton]

4 hours ago, Raja said:

Just saying the shows from  parts of the world other than Hollywood and their Canadian location filming partners will show  different patterns of racial diversity

There's always excuses.  It's just that Every. Single. Time that I see someone boasting about "diversity", they'll not have a single black female in the cast (or if they do, she'll be 27th on the cast list.

Quote

For an excellent show check out Cleverman, airing in the US on Sundance, creator/writer Ryan Griffen is Indigenous as are the majority of the cast.  This show was also produced for the ABC.

OK, let's look at Sundance and ask WDBWA?  Not in Cleverman.  Not in any of their series except Hap and Leonard, this season (te first season, there weren't any either).  Diversity!!!!

Edited July 14, 2017 by jhlipton
Cleverman and Sundance

[galax-arena]

I'm sorry, jhlipton, but I think it's uncharitable to dismiss a show simply because it does not show the sort of racial diversity that you personally prefer. (Especially since IIRC you yourself are a white man and seem to be talking over POC talking about shows that might mean a lot to us?) Indigenous people get screwed over in terms of representation in Australia, it's okay for them to have a show that's only for them. I'm not getting pressed because Cleverman (as far as I know) doesn't feature any Asians. I'm not mad  at Scandal or Jane the Virgin or Black-ish. I love those shows, I love how successful they are. Even if they don't feature people exactly like me, they are breaking the white male mold, which...fuck yeah, I'm for it.  

It's one thing if you personally decide you don't want to watch a show that doesn't have a black female lead because that's what you're into. I get that. But I do think it's really unfair for you to dismiss the diversity present on these shows just because it doesn't personally speak to you. 

ETA: I'm sure you mean well, but I think this sort of attitude just has the effect of pitting POC against POC. That is never constructive because then we just fight each other over who is Most Oppressed while ignoring that the real problem is the white-dominated hierarchy. (And as an Asian, I definitely think my fellow Asians are guilty of this too with respect to whining about how Hollywood only cares about black people~.) 

Edited July 14, 2017 by galax-arena

[jhlipton]

4 hours ago, galax-arena said:

I'm sorry, jhlipton, but I think it's uncharitable to dismiss a show simply because it does not show the sort of racial diversity that you personally prefer

I get what you're saying, and I'm definitely not trying to dismiss any victory for POC.

And I'm not dissing Cleverman in particular, just saying that it's part of a larger problem, as I noted with the full Sundance schedule.  Same with Pulse.  Good on both of them for having more POC in the cast.  It just bothers me that whenever someone claims "diversity!", I can be 90% certain there are no Black women. 

[LadyAmalthea]

I appreciate your point, jhlipton, and I certainly think there's criticism to be made for something like Pulse that has clearly made efforts regarding diversity and yet still had a white woman front and centre, and to a lesser extent Cleverman where the lead characters are men although there is certainly more gender parity in the supporting roles.  But what do you mean by "black women" - a great number of Indigenous Australians do identify as black.

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, LadyAmalthea said:

I appreciate your point, jhlipton, and I certainly think there's criticism to be made for something like Pulse that has clearly made efforts regarding diversity and yet still had a white woman front and centre, and to a lesser extent Cleverman where the lead characters are men although there is certainly more gender parity in the supporting roles.  But what do you mean by "black women" - a great number of Indigenous Australians do identify as black.

I'm just going by what Sundance has on their Cast page -- I somehow missed "Aunt Linda", who I see as Black. 

I loved Evonne Goolagong back in the day, but she was much darker in my memory than in real life!

==================================

ETA:

I just watched an episode of Doubt.  I want to like it -- Laverne Cox, Dule Hill and Eliot Gould? but the ending of the episode I saw was just so DUMB!!!!!  I might try another episode but jeez.  Anyway, mostly posting to point out that CBS actually does have a black female lead!

Edited July 15, 2017 by jhlipton
Doubt

[jhlipton]

On 7/11/2017 at 9:48 PM, jhlipton said:

True, hence the "LOL" (although Park is a bit too "Twiggy" for my taste).

the studio wants someone of Middle Eastern or Indian descent.

Fixed that for them.  It is 90% more likely that they will get someone from India vs someone from the Middle East (even without the "travel ban").  There are a lot of reasons Indian actors are preferred, and not all benign.

I was half-right: Aladdin is Middle-Eastern (Egyptian, to be precise) but Jasmine is Indian.

[Trini]

Hawaii Five-0 casting news;

Quote

Less than three weeks after the news broke that original cast members Daniel Dae Kim and Grace Park (who played Chin Ho and Kono) were exiting ahead of Season 8, the CBS procedural has promoted longtime recurring player Ian Anthony Dale (aka Kono’s husband Adam) to series regular, while also adding to its ranks Meaghan Rath (Being Human) and relative newcomer Beulah Koale.

[Haleth]

Beulah?

Edited July 20, 2017 by Haleth

[Dee]

So instead of just paying Kim & Park what they're worth, HI-50 replaces them with two other actors of Asian descent? Wow.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Dee

[galax-arena]

See, now they get POC actors and can insist that they're not racist, and they don't have to pay these actors as much as the two white leads because they're OBVIOUSLY supporting characters. #winning

[Joimiaroxeu]

Guess we can look forward to OJ appearing on Black-ish next season.

[Dee]

Don't give Kenya any ideas. He's already adapting Good Times into a feature film so good taste is not exactly his forte.

[Lugal]

3 hours ago, galax-arena said:

See, now they get POC actors and can insist that they're not racist, and they don't have to pay these actors as much as the two white leads because they're OBVIOUSLY supporting characters. #winning

And because they're new hires, 2 of them anyway.

[xaxat]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

Don't give Kenya any ideas. He's already adapting Good Times into a feature film so good taste is not exactly his forte.

I don't know what direction the remake will take, but I totally defend the original production of Good Times. At least prior to to when they wrote out John Amos and J.J. became even more of a caricature. 

It was easily the closest I've seen to my family's experience for a given decade. 

[Dee]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I love the original Good Times, but Kenya's writing is largely trash.

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

Oh, don't get me wrong. I love the original Good Times, but Kenya's writing is largely trash.

So it;s Good Times With Roc?  LOL

[Dee]

Forest Whitaker is joining the upcoming season of Empire & Jimmy Smits is joining the upcoming season of How To Get Away With Murder

[Ohwell]

I love Jimmy Smits but that's not enough for me to watch this show.  I checked out HTGAWM (and Empire) after the first season.  By the way, that's an oooold picture of him.  LOL

[UYI]

I found a series of tweets regarding the death of DC news anchor Jim Vance that really stuck with me, and I felt were appropriate for this thread:

[UYI]

The first broadcast of ABC News under the World News Tonight name, July 10th, 1978, which began with a three anchor format, with Frank Reynolds in Washington, Peter Jennings in London, and the first African-American anchor of a nationally-televised weekday evening newscast, Max Robinson in Chicago (Lester Holt is the second; however, he IS the first SOLE AA anchor of a network weekday evening newscast; he and Robinson were the first two to anchor weekend newscasts; there were others in that position, too, before Holt started anchoring NBC Nightly News).

 

And a short piece on Robinson by an organization in his home state of Virginia. He actually did the news behind a screen for a few years in Portsmouth, VA (Hampton Roads area--this was from 1950-1965), but one night, he finally removed the screen so the audience could see his face. He was fired the next day, but quickly found work in bigger markets.

 

And a short clip of the first black woman to anchor a broadcast newscast, longtime ABC World News Saturday (and then Sunday) anchorwoman Carole Simpson. She was also both the first woman AND the first POC to moderate a presidential debate (in 1992; the town hall debate between Bush Sr., Clinton and Perot).

Edited July 23, 2017 by UYI

[UYI]

[xaxat]

Jim Vance was great. During the "happy talk" local anchors try to come across as the person next door who just happens to be on TV. Vance really came across as the guy next door. He seemed like (to use an old phrase) a really cool dude.

I also thought Ed Bradley from 60 Minutes was cool. It was such a baller move to wear an earring on network news back in the eighties. 

I'm probably reading too much into this, but yesterday CBS released a trailer for Star Trek: Discovery. It stars Sonequa Martin (The Walking Dead). During the beginning of the trailer, her character has a short, straight hairstyle. Later on it's still short, but natural. like Martin wears in real life. I find it interesting because I remember reading about the amount of thought S. Epatha Merkerson (natural) put into the hairstyle of her L&O character Van Buren (straight) and why she decided to change.

[xaxat]

Double post.

[jhlipton]

11 minutes ago, xaxat said:

CBS released a trailer for Star Trek: Discovery. 

Anyone know the current odds for this show making it to air?  Last I heard there were still major problems.

[xaxat]

It premiers on September 24th on CBS. Then it moves to their streaming network.

[jhlipton]

I'd like to watch but getting "All-Access" for one show isn't happening.

[Sparger Springs]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

I'd like to watch but getting "All-Access" for one show isn't happening.

They could at least put it on the CW. I can't imagine paying for a CBS app.

[jhlipton]

14 minutes ago, Sparger Springs said:

They could at least put it on the CW. I can't imagine paying for a CBS app.

Or have it a week behind on Netflix North America (US and Canada), since it will be on Netflix everywhere else..
CBS All-Access has non-skippable ads?  Unless you pay an additional $4 it seems.  Hell to the no.

[phoenics]

I'm surprised no one is discussing this Confederate drama:  http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/hbo-casey-bloys-1202507718/

I really have no desire to see this slavery fan fiction.  I don't think there is any way they can play this that won't be problematic on some level.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

I'm surprised no one is discussing this Confederate drama:  http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/hbo-casey-bloys-1202507718/

I really have no desire to see this slavery fan fiction.  I don't think there is any way they can play this that won't be problematic on some level.

I have no desire to watch it, but a forum has already been created for it here. So far, only a few comments in the media thread.

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, phoenics said:

I'm surprised no one is discussing this Confederate drama:  http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/hbo-casey-bloys-1202507718/

I really have no desire to see this slavery fan fiction.  I don't think there is any way they can play this that won't be problematic on some level.

There is/was some discussion in the pilots and TV Show in Development thread. 

[xaxat]

I just can't with that HBO project. Just look at how the producers treat slavery in GOT. "Hey, there are brown people! And they are slaves! And this blonde white woman comes along and buys saves them! And they commit their lives to her in order to help her because they are still kind of like slaves regain her kingdom !"

And that's from someone who likes the show.

[HunterHunted]

On 7/27/2017 at 8:05 AM, phoenics said:

I'm surprised no one is discussing this Confederate drama:  http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/hbo-casey-bloys-1202507718/

I really have no desire to see this slavery fan fiction.  I don't think there is any way they can play this that won't be problematic on some level.

On 7/27/2017 at 9:22 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I have no desire to watch it, but a forum has already been created for it here. So far, only a few comments in the media thread.

 

On 7/27/2017 at 11:20 AM, Irlandesa said:

There is/was some discussion in the pilots and TV Show in Development thread. 

 

On 7/27/2017 at 6:33 PM, xaxat said:

I just can't with that HBO project. Just look at how the producers treat slavery in GOT. "Hey, there are brown people! And they are slaves! And this blonde white woman comes along and buys saves them! And they commit their lives to her in order to help her because they are still kind of like slaves regain her kingdom !"

And that's from someone who likes the show.

 

The two showrunners who are actually in charge of Confederate are Black.

http://www.npr.org/2017/07/27/539714033/black-producers-hbo-defend-upcoming-series-confederate

[Sparger Springs]

10 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

The two showrunners who are actually in charge of Confederate are Black.

http://www.npr.org/2017/07/27/539714033/black-producers-hbo-defend-upcoming-series-confederate

I don't think they are the show runners. I think what they are is the black couple they paid to go on and take the heat.

[biakbiak]

16 minutes ago, Sparger Springs said:

I don't think they are the show runners. I think what they are is the black couple they paid to go on and take the heat.

From the article:

Quote

Regardless of how awkwardly that press release was phrased, we are involved as peers, as full executive producers and as partners," says Malcolm. "If you render us a footnote, the assumption is that we're just a prop or a shield...Our own people marginalized us like that."

[ainon]

Just a lurker usually, but this discussions in this show reminded me of discussions that have come up in this thread:

Why we need to take colourism seriously

[HunterHunted]

Just now, Sparger Springs said:

I don't think they are the show runners. I think what they are is the black couple they paid to go on and take the heat.

The Spellmans were always listed as producers. I think HBO was dumb enough to think that the aura of prestige from Game of Thrones and the HBO name was enough to get everyone excited for Confederate. However, the same impulse to wax poetic about Benioff and Weiss, while downplaying the involvement of the Spellmans is the precise reason that people should be concerned about this show being on HBO. Benioff and Weiss weren't dumb enough to attempt this without people of color being involved in the development of Confederate, but HBO is dumb enough to footnote it. That's not to say that I think this will necessarily be successful even with the Spellmans involvement.

[Irlandesa]

The Spellmans are EPs and have been for a while but I don't think their involvement is enough to totally neuter the cynicism Benioff, Weiss and HBO have earned--not just for this show but for how they've treated certain sensitive story lines on Game of Thrones.

I think, had the Spellmans come up with this idea and went to B&W because they knew their involvement would vastly improve the chances of getting it made, I'd be looking at this differently.  But that's not what happened.  B&W had this idea, had a movie script and then recruited the Spellmans to come on board. Definite props to them for realizing that they need some black creatives on board but it's definitely B&W driven.  And then HBO greenlights it basically without a script.  Yeah, they have the movie script but they've already acknowledged that they're not sure what the show will be yet which tells me that the movie script doesn't mean much. And unless the Spellmans get co-creator credit, they likely will never be equal to B&W on this show in HBO's eyes.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Irlandesa

[jhlipton]

On 7/27/2017 at 9:05 AM, phoenics said:

I'm surprised no one is discussing this Confederate drama:  http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/hbo-casey-bloys-1202507718/

I really have no desire to see this slavery fan fiction.  I don't think there is any way they can play this that won't be problematic on some level.

There was a LOT of discussion in the Black Science Fiction group on Facebook; 90% of it negative.

The odds of HBO treating Southerners as the treasonous vermin they were are virtually nil.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 27/07/2017 at 9:05 AM, phoenics said:

I'm surprised no one is discussing this Confederate drama:  http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/hbo-casey-bloys-1202507718/

I really have no desire to see this slavery fan fiction.  I don't think there is any way they can play this that won't be problematic on some level.

I am curious, not having seen the show,why it seems to be getting so much more negative coverage then say The Man in the High Castle. When it would seem like logically if one is upsetting to someone so should be the other

[Joe]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I am curious, not having seen the show,why it seems to be getting so much more negative coverage then say The Man in the High Castle. When it would seem like logically if one is upsetting to someone so should be the other

This is just my guess, but High Castle is based on a Philip K Dick novel, and he wrote about many things. Maybe one racially dodgy thing is all right. Besides, the book has been around for decades, and time has a way of smoothing these things over. Whereas Confederate is a highly dodgy sounding project from two people who already have a reputation for dodginess. And let's be honest, race relations aren't exactly at a high point at the moment. This seems to be adding fuel to the fire.

[DearEvette]

3 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I am curious, not having seen the show,why it seems to be getting so much more negative coverage then say The Man in the High Castle. When it would seem like logically if one is upsetting to someone so should be the other

I wrote about some of that in the other forum  Here  and Here

The other thing that makes we wary is that given their source material with GOT, they've made Cersei (who is a real villain in the books) rather root worthy in the show.  A lot of it has to do with Lena Headey's performance, but they've made Cersei sympathetic and imo she is rather monstrous.  There is some real concern, which to their credit they do acknowledge, in making modern day slave owners look sympathethic or conflicted.  I know that it is a really complex stew, anyone who read Alex Tizon's recent essay about the woman who worked in his household who was in fact his family's own modern day slave, can really see how a person who owns a slave in the modern day in the US can seem kinda sympathethic & conflicted about it.  But in or current political climate I have no time for that.

Also, man I am slave-narrative'd out.  Like are there no other moments in US history centering on the black experience that people can make movies or tv shows about?  What about the Harlem Renaissance and the Jazz age?   Or if they had to do another slave narrative, why not adapt Ocatavia Butler's Kindred?  Man people can adapt Jane Austen over and over and over 1,000 different ways, but we can't get even one of Octavia Butler's books done even once.

Edited July 29, 2017 by DearEvette

[topanga]

11 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Or if they had to do another slave narrative, why not adapt Ocatavia Butler's Kindred?  Man people can adapt Jane Austen over and over and over 1,000 different ways, but we can't get even one of Octavia Butler's books done even once.

Preach! I've been waiting for years for an adaptation of Kindred or other Butler works--either big screen or small screen, but done by the right people. With the right cast. 

And while I do like Jane Austen books and moves, if I see one more adaptation come out, I'm going to scream. 

[Raja]

On 7/29/2017 at 5:22 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

I am curious, not having seen the show,why it seems to be getting so much more negative coverage then say The Man in the High Castle. When it would seem like logically if one is upsetting to someone so should be the other

Because that supposes "us" losing a war to outsiders and having their cultural imposed onto ours by force of arms. However if the divergent point is the War Between The States then it is all on "us"

[Trini]

On 7/29/2017 at 8:22 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

I am curious, not having seen the show,why it seems to be getting so much more negative coverage then say The Man in the High Castle. When it would seem like logically if one is upsetting to someone so should be the other

'Confederate' seems not to be far enough removed from the reality of TODAY - where black people are STILL being lynched and subjugated in various ways - to be viewed as an "alternate" history/fantasy story. Not to mention plenty of people still celebrate and proudly fly the Confederate flag today; not quite the same as with Nazi Germany.

(Also, American slavery surviving past the industrial age wouldn't even make sense economically; but why have logic when you can promote white supremacy?)

[Silver Raven]

37 minutes ago, Trini said:

Also, American slavery surviving past the industrial age wouldn't even make sense economically; but why have logic when you can promote white supremacy

Do you seriously think the show is designed to promote white supremacy?

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 7/29/2017 at 8:22 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

I am curious, not having seen the show,why it seems to be getting so much more negative coverage then say The Man in the High Castle. When it would seem like logically if one is upsetting to someone so should be the other

If you are actually "curious" it's very easy to do research on this.  Somebody did a major tweetstorm on this topic.  FYI, some members of Black Twitter are hugely against Confederate and will be hashtagging #NoConfederate between 9 PM and 10 PM EST.

Please read the Twitter thread below if you are actually curious why and not just playing Devil's Advocate.

 

If you guys care about why people are so very passionately against this show -- and they are -- then please research the hashtag #NoConfederate.  @ReignofApril on Twitter is leading the charge -- she is the one who created #OscarssoWhite.

 

Even looking up the Wikipedia article for Confederate would explain to people here why people do NOT want this show to air.  Whenever there is such a major controversy I look up articles and viewpoints on the topic instead of just asking questions that have definitely been answered many times by many people online.

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/news/hbos-slavery-drama-confederate-faces-minefield-fundamentally-problematic-issues-1024598

Things can promote white supremacy without being intentionally designed to do so.  The most simplest thesis I have seen online is that a lot of black people do not want to see white writers and networks profit off of black pain. Period.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Trini]

1 hour ago, Silver Raven said:

Do you seriously think the show is designed to promote white supremacy?

On purpose, designed to promote it? Probably no. Will it implicitly, or will white supremacist groups use it to promote their ideas? Probably yes. They don't need any more fuel.

[callie lee 29]

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

If you are actually "curious" it's very easy to do research on this.  Somebody did a major tweetstorm on this topic.  FYI, some members of Black Twitter are hugely against Confederate and will be hashtagging #NoConfederate between 9 PM and 10 PM EST.

Please read the Twitter thread below if you are actually curious why and not just playing Devil's Advocate.

 

If you guys care about why people are so very passionately against this show -- and they are -- then please research the hashtag #NoConfederate.  @ReignofApril on Twitter is leading the charge -- she is the one who created #OscarssoWhite.

 

Even looking up the Wikipedia article for Confederate would explain to people here why people do NOT want this show to air.  Whenever there is such a major controversy I look up articles and viewpoints on the topic instead of just asking questions that have definitely been answered many times by many people online.

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/news/hbos-slavery-drama-confederate-faces-minefield-fundamentally-problematic-issues-1024598

Things can promote white supremacy without being intentionally designed to do so.  The most simplest thesis I have seen online is that a lot of black people do not want to see white writers and networks profit off of black pain. Period.

That's a very good article and a very good explanation of why this particular show has seemed to ignite more heat that Man in the High Castle. I actually only heard about Confederate here just a few days ago and as I don't have HBO, won't see it (I haven't watched MITHC either), but reading about the premise did seem very disturbing in a way that the other show doesn't, although I couldn't figure out why exactly. 

[BoogieBurns]

On 7/29/2017 at 10:33 AM, DearEvette said:

Also, man I am slave-narrative'd out.  Like are there no other moments in US history centering on the black experience that people can make movies or tv shows about?

I would love to see a series about Black Wall Street, before it crumbled. All I know about it is that it was destroyed once blacks began to make good money and do it by supporting other blacks. Oooh, how about they do a series about what would have happened if Black Wall Street was never ruined. Like, how did they get started, who leaded the charge, why did they decide to live in Oklahoma? I'd watch that. I'm black, I was taught all about slavery at home, watching Roots/Glory/etc, and then in school. Black Wall Street, however, was mentioned once in all of my schooling, my senior year in my college African American studies class. Slavery is not the only "black history" there is to tell!