The Kelly File: Duggar Interview 2015.06.03

[Maizie131]

Good article. Word-for-word:  "The 7 most horrifying exchanges..." of the interview.

 

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/04/the_seven_most_horrifying_exchanges_from_the_duggars_and_megyn_kelly_interview/

 

[parisprincess]

What I got from Jim Bob and Michelle's explanations about what happened is that, following Josh's first confession, "safeguards" were put in place to protect the girls, yet he managed to continue sexually abusing them for another 16 months, until his "third" (?) confession, when they finally took steps to stop him.  Then JimBob says that the success rate at actual treatment centers isn't very high.  So much better that he chose to handle it himself, which allowed the girls to continue to be victims for over a year.  Way to protect your daughters, dipwad! 

[CarolMK]

I'm wondering if the "counseling" that Michelle stated her girls received was the stupid Journey to the Heart sessions. Are they essentially brainwashing camps for teen and young adult women? That's what I've assumed in what I've read about them.

This literally makes me ill.

[JoanArc]

Michelle said that one of the safeguards they put into place was "no sitting on the big boys' laps".

 

Does anyone have a tape of the last regular episode, "Digging in with the Duggars"?  Because I'm almost certain that toward the end, one of the little girls is sitting on Josh's lap.  I'm pretty sure it isn't Mackenzie because I remember thinking at the time that it was sweet. Of course that was before all this came out.  Now, it seems to me they may have put that little girl there on purpose, knowing the report was going to be released.

 

Does anyone remember this?

I needed a shower after watching Josh.

 

[Churchhoney]

Where's Josh / Where's Waldo - Similar?

Well, not exactly. Because you can find Waldo.

[Ljohnson1987]

I think the little girl sitting on his lap is Kenzie.

[Fuzzysox]

J'Chelle and Boob are just sorry that this came out. Their perfect facade is cracked.

I didn.t watch it yet but reading everything I've come to the conclusion that they did more harm than good. Never will people forgive them and Josh will never be able to get another job again.

[poopchute]

KELLY: I’m asking you more as the father of your girls than as the father of Josh. You know, it must have been very hard to look at your little one and know the behavior had been ongoing, as difficult as your position was.

J. B. DUGGAR: Right. I was so thankful, though, that Josh came and told us. And our girls, even though this was a very bad situation, as we’ve talked to other families who have had, you know, other things happen, a lot of their stories were even worse.

 

 

This was so infuriating.  She specifically asked twice about the girls and stupid Jim Bob keeps blabbering on about Josh telling them.  How is that an answer to the question?  At all?  This really made me angry.

[Adiba]

Watched some of the interview, and I have to add that Michele needs to look up the definition of " slander." Megyn should have asked her what exactly is FALSE about what others are saying.

[Literata]

I think the little girl sitting on his lap is Kenzie.

 

It is indeed. 

 

I know the statute of limitations has passed, and I'm not well-versed enough on this topic to know the answer, but would there be any justification for Children and Family Services to make sure the M-kids are OK?

[WhineandCheez]

WWJD?   Well, He wouldn't molest sleeping children..

 

HEE.  This case has turned me into some sorta SuperTroll.  I was looking at the HuffPost comments and someone said "TLC stands for Touching Little Children."  Double HEE.

 

Anyway, I turned my Sirius to FOX this AM (I was waiting for the display screen to say, "This action has never been performed on this system before.  Are you sure you intended to do this?") while commuting to try to catch a report on the interview.  One comment I caught was the the sisters were "shocked" to have them referred to themselves as abused.  The blanket training was mental too, I imagine.

[parisprincess]

Fear men, but give them all the power and make them the headship in your family, and if they ever do anything wrong, they don't have to be held completely accountable

 

Don't forget, these same men that have all the power and are the headship of their families are also so weak that they are unable to control their own sexual urges, which is why the females are responsible for their behavior.  What a concept!

[sr7698]

This. And fear your little brother playing hide and go seek ....

 

I wonder what the hell they told the children about the reasoning behind this particular rule. Especially when they claim that at the time of the original incident the older girls (who ranged in age all the way up to 12 at the time, I think) didn't know what the "improper touches" were all about. (obvious bullshit, since in the police report it's clear that they did know, but anyway ... )

 

And what kind of message did it send to the other boys -- that they could not be alone with their sisters in any circumstance, even playing outdoors like a bunch of kids, because if they did they'd probably molest them? WTF? Just thinking about the messages, explicit and implicit, that they must have sent out to these kids is chilling .... It takes Gothard crap and actually ratchets it up a notch. And also kind of explains why they may have gotten more and more devoted to the crazy Gothard rules over time (although they should have gotten the message that those rules actually didn't work -- since they were pretty long-time devotees when their whole mess first happened.)

 

When it comes to psychological warping of those children, we're only seeing the very tip of this awful iceberg, I have a feeling.

The so-called safe-guards they put in place kill me.  JB and Michelle basically assume that every boy is a potential molester if they go near another girl.  The real safe-guard was to DEAL WITH YOUR SON.  He was the problem and needed to be in therapy and dealt with correctly right from the first incident.  Separating the boys and girls just further isolates and divides especially at a time when they should leaning on each other for support/comfort.  I can't stand JB and Michelle.

[autumnh]

I also firmly believe that those girls were given NO choice other than to appear in that interview as well as the upcoming one. I  keep going back to Ben & Derrick.. Can you imagine being the husbands of these young woman and having to put UP with this bullsh*t and having to deal with Josh and JB & Michelle. Talk about awkward upcoming holidays and gatherings 

[Adiba]

I also meant to say that I took exception to Jim Bob saying that Josh told them "everything." How would Jim Bob know? Also, if some of the girls were asleep during some of the incidents and also "didn't remember," how would anybody but Josh really know the extent and number of molestations? Do we (in the secular world, at least) trust that the perpetrator is telling the WHOLE truth without a third-party investigation?

"Everything" is a pretty loaded word, Jim Bob. Use it carefully.

[bencr]

Michelle mentioned the Children's Safety Center. I looked at their annual report. This is not a religious organization. Their clinical therapists (clinical social workers and licensed professional counsellors, advance practice nurses) are licensed by Arkansas.

 

I have to say I'm skeptical about this just by virtue of the fact that it took the Duggars so long to mention it. From the beginning of this scandal, in their defense of how they handled this situation, the Duggars talked about the counseling Josh got from clergy and law enforcement ... so are we supposed to believe they just forgot to mention the counseling he got from clinical therapists?

[Ljohnson1987]

They say they felt like failures as parents, but they didn't stop them from bringing more innocent children into the picture. I call BS on that. Feeling like a failure would've meant closing the baby factory, and I don't think J'Chelle wanted to lose her crowning glory.

[sigmaforce86]

What I got from Jim Bob and Michelle's explanations about what happened is that, following Josh's first confession, "safeguards" were put in place to protect the girls, yet he managed to continue sexually abusing them for another 16 months, until his "third" (?) confession, when they finally took steps to stop him.  Then JimBob says that the success rate at actual treatment centers isn't very high.  So much better that he chose to handle it himself, which allowed the girls to continue to be victims for over a year.  Way to protect your daughters, dipwad! 

 

 

Here he's stating that treatment success rate isn't high - But he mentions multiple times in the interview that Josh is "cured".  Another contradiction or another excuse - if the sucess rate to rehabilitate young molestors is low indicating that, more often than not, they repeat offend then he can't claim that Josh is fixed unless he wants to also claim some new treatment the rest of the world hasn't discovered yet or just go for a straight out miracle.  On the other hand if he's exaggerating those statistics and standard treatment centers are succesful in most cases it means he really didn't want or intend to send Josh to a real program in the first place or he just didn't bother to check out more than one possible place before shipping him off to the CCCC (Construction Camp Counseling Center).

 

I still really, really want to know where 15 year old home schooled Josh who, by their own statement, had never been away from home before they sent him of for "treatment" found the money when he did come home to pay for his own "accredited" counseling.  Let's be generous and say they found someone who charged a sliding rate of $50 a session and that Josh only went once a week.  That's still $200 a month.  He didn't make that from an allowance or sweeping out rental/flip homes for JB.  If he went to fewer sessions or only went once or twice then he didn't really get counseling the way they want us to think he did.  I still feel the claim of paying his own way was another spin to make it sound like he took responsibility for all of it so they can try and get us to think how wonderful and repentant he was/is.

Edited June 4, 2015 by sigmaforce86

[NextIteration]

USA Today weighs in on interview reaction.

[Lemur]

 

I still really, really want to know where 15 year old home schooled Josh who, by their own statement, had never been away from home before they sent him of for "treatment" found the money when he did come home to pay for his own "accredited" counseling.

 

Maybe his "Christian counseling" working construction after his third home church public shaming?

 

 

They say they felt like failures as parents, but they didn't stop them from bringing more innocent children into the picture.

 

Well, more children is more eyes watching Josh like a hawk.  Or what's the term they use?  "Accountability partners".

Edited June 4, 2015 by Lemur

[Julia]

 JB and Michelle basically assume that every boy is a potential molester if they go near another girl.  The real safe-guard was to DEAL WITH YOUR SON.  He was the problem and needed to be in therapy and dealt with correctly right from the first incident.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I'm pretty sure that they actually believe that. They certainly went out of the way to emphasize on national television that their christian family-oriented community is awash with predators. Which, I have to say, I'm pretty sure their PR person did not suggest saying, he being a campaign manager for a christian family-oriented candidate with connections to the family. I think that their extreme lifestyle and isolation does make women vulnerable to abuse, and that abuse goes on, and that they assume the outside world is worse and their special status with God is actually protecting them from the worst of it.

 

Which is why their not-a-pedophile son had to be kept from those awful people who... did exactly what he did, only possibly not to blood relatives or five year olds. Because the child molesters in their community may be people who molest children, but they aren't the kind of people who molest children.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Julia

[mbutterfly]

Actually they do. If someone leaked one of my children's records I'd sue the pants off that person! It's illegal!

From what I read, and perhaps some attorneys will correct me, MO law states that a record is closed if their is a conviction. That didn't happen. Therefore, the documents were not sealed and were subject to Release of Information Act. When a media representative requests under that Act, the document must be released. Also, the names of all minors were blacked out. Only the adult names were in the released document. 

I see Lemur about has addressed this question even citing case law. So. I'll think of this as a bump for Lemur's fine help in sorting this out. 

Edited June 4, 2015 by mbutterfly

[Churchhoney]

Am I missing stuff or did JB and M not mention one single thing that they actually did wrong through this whole decade-plus-long episode?

 

And if that's the case, I guess we know why the crisis-management guy would have walked.

 

I must say that I'm not sure how well "crisis management" actually "works" -- as in, plenty of people who get criticized for eschewing it or making a hash of it (as JimBob appears to have done) seem to suffer very few consequences from that supposedly dangerous step. Will be interesting to see whether the Duggars also persist and succeed without following any of the standard crisis-management principles.

[mbutterfly]

They say they felt like failures as parents, but they didn't stop them from bringing more innocent children into the picture. I call BS on that. Feeling like a failure would've meant closing the baby factory, and I don't think J'Chelle wanted to lose her crowning glory.

And it didn't stop them from initiating a highly profitable career in teaching families about how to parent as Christians. 

[Skittl1321]

I don't know if Josh is still a risk or not. I think only Josh knows. What I do know is that the picture of Kynsie sitting on Josh's lap makes me very uncomfortable. How can Anna comfortably continue to live with Josh and have him in close proximity to her daughters?

Well, supposedly she knew before the marriage.

 

 

 

Does anyone thing we will hear from the Arkansas AG or the sheriff who released the records? They are certainly getting skewered over "illegal" release. If it truly was legal (in that it was not a sealed record, but a public police report)- I think they should step up and say so.

[SomePity1066]

Jesus in a sidecar, what a shitshow !!! The Lying Liars Who Lie must have been on a combo cocktail of Xanax and Redbull to come up with such a murky swamp of defensiveness, deflection, sugar-coating, victim-blaming, backtracking, rewriting history, and as little self-insight as I've ever witnessed in two human beings...

 

Do they not feel the white-hot irony of announcing "no male babysitters" as one of their so-called safeguards while Josh then went on to molest a female babysitter ?!?! If they were so damned vigilant about protecting girls from further harm why was Josh, ostensibly, without parental supervision while the girls AND the babysitter were there ? 

 

The lack of love or concern for their daughters was staggering - all of their energy in the interview was directed toward protecting and excusing Josh's behavior, as well as their own. They keep saying the whole thing brought them closer to God, and if that's true I hope it's because God wants to be nearer to them for when he smacks them in the face.

 

You aren't being "persecuted" because you're Christians, you're being persecuted because you're assholes.

 

And to Michelle - the Oscar for world's worst fakey-fake-fake crying goes to YOU, you soulless, demented shell of a human being. Get the hell off my TV, go away, and never, ever come back. Josh and JB, too. I'm calling for a good old fashioned shunnin' right here and now. Let the children pick up the remaining pieces and live whatever lives they can and get the hell out from the infernal hypocrisy of the Umbrella of Authority. 

[Churchhoney]

Here he's stating that treatment success rate isn't high - But he mentions multiple times in the interview that Josh is "cured". 

 

Well, you see that just shows how skeptics like us just don't get it. Getting treatment doesn't work. But getting no treatment that informed people would recognize as such, on the other hand, works perfectly. 

[Mya Stone]

Here's the Dr. Keith Ablow clip. 

[xls]

Why did they need a "babysitter" with all the J-slaves in the house?

[Lemur]

Does anyone thing we will hear from the Arkansas AG or the sheriff who released the records? They are certainly getting skewered over "illegal" release. If it truly was legal (in that it was not a sealed record, but a public police report)- I think they should step up and say so.

 

The City Attorney and Mayor already responded - http://5newsonline.com/2015/05/23/senator-springdale-police-chief-should-be-fired-over-child-sex-crime-report/

 

"Springdale Mayor Doug Sprouse said O’Kelley and Springdale City Attorney Ernest Cate determined after researching the matter that the report had to be released under law.

'From every indication I have the chief and city attorney reluctantly did what they had to do to comply with the state FOI (freedom of information) law,' Sprouse said Saturday (May 23)."

 

ETA: ramble posted this over in the Smuggar and Anna thread, a more detailed response (which cites *actual case law*) - http://5newsonline.com/2015/06/03/second-incident-report-released-regarding-josh-duggar-sexual-molestation-allegations/

 

There's that gosh-darned Constitution getting in the way of the Duggars' righteousness yet again ...

Edited June 4, 2015 by Lemur

[ChicksDigScars]

I fell asleep and didn't see. Maybe that's why I don't feel like an unwashed little ball of rage this morning. OMG. Seriously? They ball faced LIED and contradicted what was in the police report?

 

And to think Friday we'll get to hear Jessa and Jill talk about how they forgive josh and how the evil liberal media did this.

 

Is this definite? Notice that the one who probably suffered the most, who seems the most affected, and who actually ADMITTED in their book that she "had a problem with a family member," is NOT one of the above names listed? Convenient. Are they concerned that Jana will break down and not tow the party line?

[Kellyee]

A 14/15 year old touching a 5 year old sexually is on a whole different level than a 14/15 year old trying grope a 13 year old, in my opinion. One could be construed as a horny, inappropriate brother, but the other is clearly a pedophile. Michelle trying to make it "no big deal" just because some of the victims were sleeping is disturbing. I worry more than anything about the lack of supervision in that house, considering how many teenage boys there are and will be and how many little girls are still in that house.

 

So many classic quotes though. "Boys don't babysit", and "only adults can be pedophiles" will live on forever.

 

I also cringe at how many people think saying "Sorry" and claiming to have found God excuses something. If that worked, there would be no one in prison.

[Bean421]

Here's the Dr. Keith Ablow clip. 

 

Good for Dr. Keith telling the truth. I have no doubt now that Jill and Jessa are just there to reinforce the don't punish Josh for his "stupid decision" message and that their pain is only because the evil media  ran with the story.

[Maizie131]

Jesus in a sidecar, what a shitshow !!! The Lying Liars Who Lie must have been on a combo cocktail of Xanax and Redbull to come up with such a murky swamp of defensiveness, deflection, sugar-coating, victim-blaming, backtracking, rewriting history, and as little self-insight as I've ever witnessed in two human beings...

 

Do they not feel the white-hot irony of announcing "no male babysitters" as one of their so-called safeguards while Josh then went on to molest a female babysitter ?!?! If they were so damned vigilant about protecting girls from further harm why was Josh, ostensibly, without parental supervision while the girls AND the babysitter were there ? 

 

The lack of love or concern for their daughters was staggering - all of their energy in the interview was directed toward protecting and excusing Josh's behavior, as well as their own. They keep saying the whole thing brought them closer to God, and if that's true I hope it's because God wants to be nearer to them for when he smacks them in the face.

 

You aren't being "persecuted" because you're Christians, you're being persecuted because you're assholes.

 

And to Michelle - the Oscar for world's worst fakey-fake-fake crying goes to YOU, you soulless, demented shell of a human being. Get the hell off my TV, go away, and never, ever come back. Josh and JB, too. I'm calling for a good old fashioned shunnin' right here and now. Let the children pick up the remaining pieces and live whatever lives they can and get the hell out from the infernal hypocrisy of the Umbrella of Authority. 

Somepity - I'm a big fan of yours & I agree with everything above except for your comment about Michelle's tears -- I thought they were real & my heart went out to her.  However, her horrible angst/tears were because (1) the police report was made public, thereby causing MUCH (I don't doubt) pain and humiliation; and (2) because their comfy lifestyle/means of support/"celebrity status" are, most assuredly, gone forever.  But keep up your posts - love 'em!

[TheRealT]

I still really, really want to know where 15 year old home schooled Josh who, by their own statement, had never been away from home before they sent him of for "treatment" found the money when he did come home to pay for his own "accredited" counseling.  Let's be generous and say they found someone who charged a sliding rate of $50 a session and that Josh only went once a week.  That's still $200 a month.  He didn't make that from an allowance or sweeping out rental/flip homes for JB.  If he went to fewer sessions or only went once or twice then he didn't really get counseling the way they want us to think he did.  I still feel the claim of paying his own way was another spin to make it sound like he took responsibility for all of it so they can try and get us to think how wonderful and repentant he was/is.

My interpretation/speculation about that is that when Josh went to the "counseling program" in Little Rock the guy who "counseled" him provided the "counseling," room, and board in exchange for Josh's work in the construction crew, so Josh was, effectively, paying for his "counseling" with his labor. Or they could have just been lying about him paying for his own counseling (which would have been inappropriate anyway).

[barbedwire]

Thanks to all who took one for the team and watched this vomit inducing pack of crap.

 

I too, as many of you have said, wondered what those "safeguards" were that they put in place after incident #1?  Cuz they failed!  Joshie should have been sleeping in their room.  But oh no, how could they then make the next blessing if he was there disturbing them?

 

So at no point during this was Josh's actions ever called a sin?  Well I hope they never EVER call Deanna getting knocked up with Famy a sin.  It was just a mistake.

And if they don't watch t.v. and safeguard themselves from the evil internet, why are Jill and Jessa crying about this being out there?  How did they even know?

Edited June 4, 2015 by barbedwire

[SometimesBites]

I hate how the Duggars and their defenders try to minimize the abuse by saying it was over the clothes.

Isn't it incredible? They downplay the molestation incidents by qualifying over the clothes/under the clothes, but family members have to hug each other from the side. These people are SO twisted.

[Hpmec]

The Duggars, particularly Boob (since he hardly let J'Chelle get a word in edgewise and she looked extra unhinged anyway) downplayed, deflected, and dodged. It was exactly what I expected from a couple watching their gravy train disappear into the distance and desperate to get back onboard. Particularly telling and offensive was Boob's comment that the rest of the family shouldn't be "punished" for Josh's action. The arrogance and entitlement in that comment floored me. Millions of us live out our lives off camera. No one pays us to come into our homes and film our children running across countertops (although the vast majority of us have the common sense to make sure that never happens). No one pays us to take a European honeymoon or travel thousands of miles to meet a prospective spouse. The Duggars are famous for two things - popping out a rabbit cage full of offspring and living in accord with strict religious principles. They have had an incredible run that has included a house, free travel, magazine covers, and on and on -all while harboring a secret they knew could destroy them. And what do they do now that the secret's out? Do they express sincere sorrow for their failure to protect their daughters from a predator? Do they admit they've been living a lie -portraying themselves as something they're not? No. They whine that they're the victims here and that having their show pulled is somehow a "punishment." They should be thankful they had the show at all and grateful they aren't sitting in jail for child endangerment. The sooner these phony grifters and pathetic excuses for parents are off tv, the better. Boob did backtrack a little and said they'd be ok without the show. Good. Now go away.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Hpmec

[pinkelephant3]

I wonder how much they got paid for this "interview"

[NextIteration]

Albow let Doucey pound the lie that the "sealed juvenile records" were illegally released.

 

Otherwise, I'm a little shocked that he didn't tow the rest of the company line.

[JoanArc]

Isn't it incredible? They downplay the molestation incidents by qualifying over the clothes/under the clothes, but family members have to hug each other from the side. These people are SO twisted.

Megyn really should've come back with asking how pulling up a dress and pulling down pants is 'over the clothes'. God forbid Jim Bob and Michelle face an honest question.

[Cherrio]

They say they felt like failures as parents, but they didn't stop them from bringing more innocent children into the picture. I call BS on that. Feeling like a failure would've meant closing the baby factory, and I don't think J'Chelle wanted to lose her crowning glory.

I think their focus was also on adding as many children as possible for the show. They REALLY wanted that 20 Kids and Counting.

            On another subject, I am convinced TLC knew about it.    Since everyone in their area and fellow wack jobs knew, I am sure the letter/email writer did not stop at Oprah.  

[HumblePi]

She also apparently referred to Josh's construction job as counseling, so while the Children's Safety Center may have been involved, we have no way of knowing in what capacity, and they obviously can't tell.

 

Strictly speaking, that young woman who speaks to schools could be said to have counseled the children about child sexual abuse. Which would explain a fair amount...

Erin Merryn was sexually molested when she was a child. She's written a book called Stolen Innocence, Living For Today, & An Unimaginable Act. She's responsible for the legislation being passed in 23 States called 'Erin's Law' that requires sexual abuse prevention taught in schools.  Jim Bob and Michelle 'just happened to be' attending a lecture she was giving to a group on Arkansas. They stayed late until after she finished her lecture to approach her and ask if she would please come to their home to speak to all their children about sexual abuse. That was just last year, so I guess it's better late than never that Jim Bob and Michelle did something proactively.

[Julia]

Erin Merryn was sexually molested when she was a child. She's written a book called Stolen Innocence, Living For Today, & An Unimaginable Act. She's responsible for the legislation being passed in 23 States called 'Erin's Law' that requires sexual abuse prevention taught in schools.  Jim Bob and Michelle 'just happened to be' attending a lecture she was giving to a group on Arkansas. They stayed late until after she finished her lecture to approach her and ask if she would please come to their home to speak to all their children about sexual abuse. That was just last year, so I guess it's better late than never that Jim Bob and Michelle did something proactively.

 

And for the sake of the children, I'm certainly glad they did.

 

It was just given unto me to wonder if that might not have been at least part of the "counseling" the Duggar parents are claiming their children received.

[JoanArc]

 

That was just last year, so I guess it's better late than never that Jim Bob and Michelle did something proactively.

Except she only spoke to 9 of the little kids. The victims were 'at camp'.

[HumblePi]

Where's Josh / Where's Waldo - Similar?

Well I think he's over there in OZ with the wizard hiding behind both the curtain and mommies long skirt.

[HumblePi]

I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment of your post, except why do we need to hear from the 5th girl.  She gave her account to the police.  And frankly, it was the least damning of all the reports.  She and her family specifically treated it as not a big deal and they didn't want the police to make more out of it than it was.

 

Unless she's going to come forward and change her story to say it was a big deal, why would she want to come forward?  If she comes forward and says the same thing as listed in the police report she will get ripped to shreds as a "kool-aid drinker", people will say she's been brain-washed to feel that its not a big deal, people will say that she's just another cult member protecting Josh. And if she does change her story there is a whole different group of people that will call her a liar. Either she's lying now or she was lying then.  Which is it?

 

I can't see any reason why the 5th girl would want to come forward.  (O.k. I take that back- maybe for financial reasons- a tell all interview/book would potentially make a lot of money.) Of course I'd like to hear an independent account but for her sake I hope she either stays quiet or makes a lot of money for her trouble.

 

Edited to add: If the 5th girl would say the same thing as in the police report it would actually be to the Duggars benefit because that narrative fits with their "no big deal" spiel.  I'd think they'd want to try to get her to repeat what they said but I really hope no one pressures her to do it.

The thing is, it's precisely the 5th 'woman' who would really be of most importance since she was there to babysit. Right away that tells me that the older sister-mommies were not in the home. It also tells me she wasn't soundly asleep in a bed in the girl's room and she sure was not a minor. This takes the sexual molestation to a different level. It's not sexually molesting a defenseless little girl, it's molestation of an older girl maybe even adult age that could resist and cause real trouble if she went to the police. Because she didn't go right to the police or blow the whistle to Jim Bob (or maybe she did) convinces me of who the 5th girl was, and that she was closely related to the family.

[SometimesBites]

Well, it surely explains the reason(s) for their repressive rules, doesn't it?  Sleeping in their clothes, the dormitory style bedrooms - safety in numbers, the youngest girls sharing a bed with an older sister, side hugs, NIKE...on and on.

^^^THIS, my friend. In spades. Since this story broke, it has come back to me several times that a HUGE number of the Duggar oddities that have been given side-eye by viewers can be understood in the context of Jim Bob and Michelle desperately trying to create "safeguards."

 

Their world is one of reactionary extremes and magical thinking. They believe that when bad shit happens to them, there's a good chance it's God knocking them between the eyes with a 2x4. When Michelle lost her very first pregnancy, their reaction was to demonize birth control. When their beloved older son repeatedly molested his little sisters, their reaction was to enact twelve million RULES of conduct. This type of thinking is no different than ancient peoples performing an annual blood sacrifice to make sure there's no repeat of that big flood that wiped out the village a couple of years ago. There is a primitive fear of the unknown combined with the hubris that creating bigger and more draconian rules will prevent bad things from happening.

 

This is actual LIFE. Bad stuff happens, even to good people. We can't make it safe and foolproof--it's impossible. When the waves of life are chaotic it's better to learn to surf than try to pound the waves flat.

[chlban]

 

From one of the posted live blogs (because I haven't been able to watch the interview myself):

 

Oh, give me a fucking break. Do I think some of the anger at the Duggars is because for ages they’ve set themselves up as holier-than-thou arbiters of morality? Yes. No one likes hypocrisy when it comes to smug moralists. But they can stop acting like it’s some sort of ~agenda against people of faith. My Christian friends are just as disgusted about the Duggars as I am. But they never subscribed to the judgmental brand of Christianity that the Duggars adhere to, so they were never on the Duggar fandom train to begin with. Y'all ain't being persecuted, Duggars, so you can take several seats now. 

 

This. I am a Christian and I am heterosexual. However, I lean more toward the "judge not, lest thee be judged" philosophy though. I don't  think it's my place to place judgments on the sex lives of consenting adults. I don't believe that the God I believe in wants us to spread hate. To anyone.

 

However, I won't lie, as bad as I feel for the victims, I love watching these horrible people squirm. I love that they are losing their show. Certainly not because they are Christians. Because they are hate filled, judgemental, lying liars who lie. And they are Hypocrites, with a captial H.

 

I am sick to death of the idea that people like this want to perpetuate that it is only the godless heathens of the world that want to bring them down.   I know plenty of practicing Christians that want to see it. 

[okerry]

I haven't read this entire thread yet - but did I keep hearing, during the interview, that the Duggar parents found out because Josh kept running to them and telling them what he'd done? And on several separate occasions?

 

They made it sound like every time Josh creeped on his sisters, he'd immediately run to his parents and tell them about it. Is that what they meant??

 

And I'm guessing that "hide and seek" is out because one of the girls hid in the laundry room and Josh got to her in there during the game.