S07.E06: Double Down On Delusion

[jaync]

Spying Ramona talking to a few gentlemen at the club she says that Ramona has game even though she hasn't dated since the Berlin Wall came down.

But having game isn't a bad thing, and Ramona probably hadn't casually dated since that time in history, so I didn't see that as shade being thrown.

Eta: Oops, MatildaMoody beat me to it.

 

Very strange it is okay to go out of town for the weekend but the big issue was Bethenny got to take her child to school. 

The issue seemed to be with Sonja not telling them Beth was going to be late, not Beth's lateness in itself.

 

It seems when it involves her daughter she uses common sense. 

Wouldn't her daughter have been at school, already? If so, then the ladies could've waited inside while Sonja made alternative arrangements for child care from another room.

Edited May 13, 2015 by jaync

[Lola16]

I don't always agree with B but Sonja's repeating things ad nauseam ... eeesh, what better response than to remove yourself from the madness?  Waiting for her to belt out "Let it go".   I know I feel like doing that.

[ichbin]

The thing I found super obnoxious was the scene where Carole was having her make-up applied while lying down on a couch and having a conversation.   I'm not a make-up artist but I imagine that it would be somewhat difficult to do the job properly. 

 

Dorinda gets in some of the best lines and observations.  Hope she sticks around.  I'm still not sure why Kristen was asked back for a second season. 

[abbottrabbit]

 

Also, it's probably actually true.... the Berlin wall came down in 1989 wasn't it? If she and Mario were together for 25 years, that's about right.

 

It was also VIVIDLY reminiscent of something Bethanny said in season 2 or 3 -- when Ramona was giving dating advice by telling her about meeting Mario at a gym, and Bethanny had a TH about getting advice from Ramona on how to pick up men while wearing Jane Fonda workout gear. 

 

Both of those -- and Carole's Connecticut comment -- are true. And they're digs. They're truth deployed as digs -- Smack talk rather than trash talk, to quote the philosopher Kelly Kapoor. 

 

And they're also all FUNNY, and relatively harmless checks, especially the Connecticut thing which was said to LuAnn's face, and didn't appear to be an issue for anyone until Bethanny decided that that, not the full scale nuclear warfare they'd had in the limo, was too much for her. 

[WireWrap]

How is it these line producers keep their jobs?  If they were suppose to leave at 10:30 the number one thing that would have to be there is the car.    Heather should have been poking the eyes out of whoever was in charge of the limo and we know it isn't Sonja.  As to Kristen and Heather-they both have nannies.  This is called a work commitment deal with it.  Very strange it is okay to go out of town for the weekend but the big issue was Bethenny got to take her child to school.  I question what time their kids start school.  I am thinking it is not an hour and half to get from downtown to the upper east side.

 

Production trying to force their way into Sonja's house under the guise of don't leave the ladies in the rain didn't work.  This is one of the few times Sonja didn't overexpose herself and her weaknesses.  It seems when it involves her daughter she uses common sense.  The last person on the face of the earth I would want within hearing distance during a child care crisis is Heather.  That woman just talks and talks.   Although seemingly unfeeling I think all these women could have asked to leave their luggage in the capable hands of the interns and strolled around the corner to Starbucks.  The big deal is Bravo probably didn't have a filming permit or permission.

 

I think the show loses some of it's "reality" when they have these stages scenes designed to create animosity.

Oh, I have no doubt that production had a lot to do with when the limo arrived but Sonja kicking them out of her house and making them stand in the cold hard rain was on her and her alone. Add to that she had yet to pack her bags even though everyone was meeting at her house at 10am. LOL, Sonja was late to her own house, then had to pack while letting 3 of her cast mates outside in the cold rain, surrounded by construction. If Sonja was that opposed to allowing cameras in her house then she should have been home, packed and ready to leave at 10 am.

 

Sonja's daughter is in boarding school, I am not sure that she comes home each weekend, I have seen far too many photos of Sonja out drunk on weekends.

 

I wondered about that too. I am noticing a pattern with Bethenny and the new versus original Housewives. No matter what issues she seems to have with the originals, she really doesn't want to discuss the originals with the newcomers. Whether it's to gossip or throw shade, or just tell an anecdote. Is it possible that she may actually feel protective of them when it comes to the newer women?

 

Like she had issues with Ramona coming in, but pretty much wanted to shut Heather down when Heather wanted to discuss Ramona. She has been extremely patient with Sonja. And then that reaction to Carole saying Luann wasn't European. It's all very strange.

IMO, Bethenny thought she could come back on and be treated as if she never left. She did not keep in touch with any of them after she left, except for Ramona 1 - 2 times on her own spin off and Ramona/LuAnn going on her talk show 1 or 2  times each. She thought she would/could walk back into the top HW position and that all the rest would just accept it.

Edited May 13, 2015 by WireWrap

[Mrs peel]

I’ve just realized that much of what Sonja is bullshitting about are things that the other HWs actually have/had. 
      JFK Jr., related to Carole. 
      Second homes you can actually use?  Ramona, Heather, Dorinda, and LuAnn.
      Modeling?  Kristin and LuAnn. 
      Diddy?  Heather.
      Actual businesses?   Ramona, Heather, Bethenny and to a degree LuAnn (putting her last as it seems she is just putting her name on someone else’s designs – not that this isn’t what many other folks have done). 
       References to Europe?  LuAnn.
       No idea how Madonna relates.

Sonja saying she worked in PR all her life isn't bragging.  The last real job she had was essentially PR for a restaurant.  Bethenny's personality is such that she tends to exaggerate what is going on around her.  Sonja does have a house in Colorado, and she did have a house in France and I noticed last summer she was tweeting away from her friend's home in France. Problem for Sonja is every time she sells a property the ex sues her.  So any hope of Sonja getting her debt paid off is complicated by the ex.  I am thinking the pining away for the ex-her best friend-is probably more of a sympathy ploy that an honest to goodness feeling.

Except she hasn’t been in PR all her life.  First, she hasn’t held a job outside the home in at least a decade, probably much longer.  And while she called the hostess at a restaurant job “PR”, that doesn’t make it so.  She seated people at tables, she soothed ruffled feelings when the table wasn’t ready, and she flirted with the men.  That may be being a good hostess, but it’s not a “public relations” job.

 

And Sonja may say she “sold” the house in France, but that sale was actually forced by the bankruptcy court.  Nor do I think the ex sues her every time she sells a property (of which I think she has sold ONE).  They have an ongoing dispute about the alimony settlement, and the Colorado house.  All these houses were bought with Morgan money in the first place.

 

Finally, she has NO interest in paying off the $7m.  That one is just my opinion.

She wants to date and she feels like how can she meet someone while she is having all this financial ruin.  So let's say she meets a guy, and she will want a guy that is super successful and has means, and she is like I have a 7M lawsuit, she feels like it is a strike against her and the guy is going to be like "check please".

Oh, I think if Sonja could latch onto another wealthy man she would do it in a second!  Someone to pay off her debts?  Check.  Someone to pay for shopping at Bergdorf’s?  Check. Someone to whisk her away for weekends in Gstaad?  Check.  Unfortunately for her, most people in NYC who have money probably already know about her, and any wealthy guy, who is likely already divorced once or twice, will be reluctant to give her the checkbook/black card.  Never mind she is very unlikely to ever have a marriage where she doesn’t have to sign a pre-nup, so she missed out on the real Morgan money and is ruing the day.

I need to re-watch that scene again.  I could have sworn it was Dorinda opening the bottle.  And I remember thinking how strange that was.  Or did Sonja attempt to open the bottle first, and Dorinda was "helping" her?

I remember Sonja trying to open a bottle, then Dorinda getting involved but at some point the bottle changed.  I thought Dorinda helped because if Sonja would only have passed out there would be peace and quiet.  Or maybe she changed the bottle to something non-alcoholic.

Sonja's disintegration stems from the poor decisions she has made since the divorce. The judgment against her lies because she was found to have actually defrauded people. Her inability to confront reality is a refusal to take responsibility for that mess. She has been driven mad but her madness was self-created; she is like the lady in Blue Jasmine, whose empire collapsed because she dropped a dime in a moment of spite. The ripple effect drew her into the whirlpool. She is not Blanche du Bois even remotely, she is not a creative tender dreamer, she is someone whose downfall is her own doing. She can't face that, so she retreats.

 

She was just fine until she lost her money.

I can imagine when the cameras are off she deeply regrets naively playing around in the shark-infested Hollywood waters and she got bit in the butt big time.  Except for that one major mistake she might have been all right financially.

I don’t think that’s the way it happened, I don’t think she has regrets because she repeatedly claims the fault was others, and I think if she hadn’t gotten hit with the movie lawsuit she would have eventually gotten herself into some other stupid thing (like now, I realize B said Sonja didn’t have her own money in the clothing line, but who knows).  I believe Sonja was still married when the movie deal came up, and she claimed to be good for the $7m because of the Morgan money/name.  He refused to pony up the cash, and obviously she didn’t have it on her own.  She appears to be living beyond her means with no thought to the future (when she won’t have any child support for the daughter who barely lives with her now).  Unlike LuAnn who sold the large Hamptons house and bought smaller. 

I think we have all lost some moral high ground in our comments. I mean we snark here.

[sonja/any HW voice]  But, but that’s different. [end Sonja/any HW voice]
 

I must be getting Skinnygirl blind because I didn't notice I single bottle, yet I know they were there. Lucky me.

Me too!  And glad of it.

 

The other odd thing about the limo fight was there were shots of Sonja looking out the front window, as if she was watching the other HW outside.  Unless there was editing involved…  And while the limo may have been late and B was late (and who thinks there won’t be traffic from Tribeca to the UES?!?), Sonja was the LAST to arrive!

[ghoulina]

Because it was a jab. Carole has been swiping at LuAnn from the start about her title, her being a nurse from CT etc.  As if Carole is real royalty (she isn't, she just isn't, she got her title by marriage and while not as bought and paid for as the count's, it's fringe), or had some upper crust upbringing.  LuAnn got her break modeling, lived in Europe on her own, and then met the count.  LuAnn gets snobby sometimes but so do Sonja, Ramona, and Carole.

 

I thought it was a jab as well. 

 

Lu was telling Bethenny that someone suggested she get long extensions. Beth was all, "Nah, you don't need that. You've got that European, confident short hair thing going on". Then Carol just busts in with, "She's not European. She's from Connecticut". 

 

Um okay. Thanks. Pretty sure we all knew that. I mean, what was the point of even saying that? It was like she was trying to put Lu in her place. 

[Sincerely Yours]

They were dancing on a stage next to scantily clad club dancers who are paid to dance. Bringing up your own body and getting paid to dance wasn't random.

I guess.... and I have no doubt walking by a woman wearing flattering jeans would also cue Carole to have a conversation about how well her ass looks in hers. Seems like Carole can figure out how to tie her "banging body" into a conversation using pretty much anything in her environment.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[ghoulina]

No idea how Madonna relates.

 

Well, evidently Kelly B think she's Madonna. 

[film noire]

Heaven forbid there be a middle aged woman who isn't criticizing her body  <snip>

 

Not to worry -- Carole felt free to criticize the body of another middle-aged woman (and laugh her ass off, when Reed mocked Ramona and Sonja's bodies a couple of seasons ago) so it's clearly a hill she's happy to live and die on.

Did anyone else notice Sonja kissing her doorjamb as she left her house? 

She thought it was Luann?

Edited May 13, 2015 by film noire

[shoegal]

A person can be proud and happy with themselves and still be humble and also manage to no be an arrogant nuisance about it as well. Hell I'm fabulous. People know that I think I'm fabulous. I believe I'm attractive, very much so and I'm very stylish to the point that I'm complimented regularly however I don't constantly reaffirm this out loud while beaming with self pleasure. It's basically an unnecessary act to engage in so frequently. Nothing wrong with being pleased with yourself but just like anything else displaying such a distasteful amount is definitely worthy of some snark.

I'm sure you are fabulous! And people know that you know you're fabulous....how? Maybe you've mentioned it?

Edited May 13, 2015 by shoegal

[film noire]

I'm sure you are fabulous! And people know that you know you're fabulous....how? Maybe you've mentioned it?

 

I think the whole point of her post was that she doesn't have to mention it, because if you are genuinely fabulous -- or cool, or sexy, or nerdy-hip, or whatever thing you truly are -- it's you, and you don't need to announce it to the world like you've hired Don Draper to market you to the universe.  

Edited May 13, 2015 by film noire

[Lola16]

Confidence exudes.  Arrogance screams.

[LilaFowler]

Eh, Carole's just a bitch.  She makes snarky comments about the other womens' appearances, jobs (or lack thereof), etc, and it's usually behind their backs in her THs.  I couldn't care less that she's old as hell and proud of her figure.  You can be proud of yourself without saying things like, "well, it's not as if Ramona could even fit into any of my clothes" or commenting on how SAHM Aviva (?) hadn't accomplished anything in life because she had never had a job outside the home.  That makes you look like a bitch, and no one really likes a bitch.   The other women have had their nasty moments on the show but I can't really recall any of them almost making it a point to belittle the others like Carole has. 

[Sincerely Yours]

I'm sure you are fabulous! And people know that you know you're fabulous....how? Maybe you've mentioned it?

The very clear point that's being made is that Carole "mentions it" ad nauseam and strangely inserts these self praises where it doesn't even make sense half the time.

 

Also, people know I know it because, well, they know I own a mirror or two. Hee!  As well as it being an observable fact and all. ;-)

Edited May 13, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[Trooper York]

I think you have it exactly right LilaFowler. Carole is right up there as the most unpleasant Housewife ever. She is a strong contender along with Tamara Judge, Daniele Staub, Theresa, Nene and Kim RIchards. 

 

In fact I think there is a good argument that she is the worst out of all of them.

[pbutler111]

While, on the one hand, I recognize that Sonja really needs her RHONYC income, on the other hand, I wonder how long Bravo can go on exploiting her painfully obvious mental illness. She may just be an exceptional actress, but this doesn't seem to me to be the usual RH overblown hysteria over minutiae designed to artificially up the drama and secure the person's place in the lineup. Sonja has degenerated into someone who seems to be in serious trouble, both mentally and physically. It's becoming increasingly disturbing to watch.

[shoegal]

I think the whole point of her post was that she doesn't have to mention it, because if you are genuinely fabulous -- or cool, or sexy, or nerdy-hip, or whatever thing you truly are -- it's you, and you don't need to announce it to the world like you've hired Don Draper to market you to the universe.

You are talking about people knowing you are fabulous. The statement was people knowing you think you are fabulous. There is a difference.

I prefer a woman who loves herself and her body and isn't afraid to show it to one who constantly talks about the parts of herself that she hates, which is all too common in our current society.

I don't see it any differently than Ramona spending seven seasons talking about how she is such a great business woman.

[Mozelle]

I missed the first 15 minutes of last night's episode, so I didn't get to see whatever the Sonja/foyer/limo issue was. When I read about it here (plus coupled with the way Bethenny tried to light into Heather about being late in the hotel), I thought that Heather and Bethenny had had a blowout in the limo. As it turns out, Heather was pissed about being shooed out of Sonja's entry way and out onto the cold sidewalk. That was pretty much the bulk of Heather's complaint. She did mention Bethenny's lateness in relation to Sonja having this information beforehand and not telling the other women, but she didn't berate Bethenny. The way that Bethenny was snappy at the hotel, I thought that she and Heather had really gotten into it in the limo. No. Bethenny just decided to be a bit passive aggressive it seems. 

 

It's worth noting that Bethenny is backtracking in her blog for this week, saying that she can see why Heather would have been pissed. 

 

 

 

I do like that when Ramona said what she said it came out organically while making whatever point she was making. It wasn't that she just decided to talk about her body or look out of nowhere. Her appearance tied into the conversation or whatever and wasn't the main idea. Carole just makes these random comments at random times so it's like she has self praise tourettes or something. It's like huh, what? Where did that come from..? Oh, right it's time to point that your incredibly sexy, desirable, etc. etc.... Must be Tuesday.. Gotcha..

Were they really random moments or where they in response to something? I thought her comments came in her THs?

 

Anyway, as someone mentioned, Ramona loves her body and her looks, just the same. There was the time she brought along a fitness magazine she covered and she was quite proud of that. There was also the time she had some large portrait on an easel for some event she was hosting. She gushed about how great she looked in the photo. Also, Ramona tends to wear bikinis when she's on vacation. Most women aren't wearing them let alone preening and posing in them the way Ramona does unless they believe they've got a banging body.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Mozelle

[archer1267]

Women spend their entire lives making comments about their bodies in a backwards notion of "this is how I show that I have humility and am humble and not a braggart." In actuality, they are practicing self hate so that others don't hate them first.

 

 

I'm re-watching Season 2 and just saw a segment where Jill almost fit into a size 0 in Zeng Toi's studio. (This was just after she showed up "wearing a muumuu" because she felt fat.) In a subsequent episode she explains why she's obsessed with her weight, and that she pours water or ketchup on her food so she won't be tempted to eat it. I don't remember Jill getting flak for being gleeful over the size 0 dress. Most women are generally fixated on their problem areas and talk about it to set other women at ease, in the way you'll read an interview with a supermodel who will talk about growing up awkward and dateless because she had braces and acne. Carole's comments about her body make her un-relatable to other women in that way.

[shoegal]

The very clear point that's being made is that Carole "mentions it" ad nauseam and strangely inserts these self praises where it doesn't even make sense half the time.

It has always made sense to me.

[Lola16]

We've heard that production plays games with arrivals, sharing 'secrets', setting up surprise visitors etc.  So I wouldn't be surprised if the limo was late on purpose.  I also wouldn't be surprised if it was held up in traffic. 

 

Part of the 'getting ready time' to film is mic-ing up, going over things with the PAs and LPs before each shot etc.  So little actual live reality. 

 

 

I’ve just realized that much of what Sonja is bullshitting about are things that the other HWs actually have/had.

Sonja is very much "me too" either in a bragging way or in a divert the attention back to her way.  Ramona and B have had a rough year, cue Sonja! 

[nexxie]

nm

Edited May 13, 2015 by nexxie

[shoegal]

 

Were they really random moments or where they in response to something? I thought her comments came in her THs?

I have never noticed them to be "random moments". That characterization seems to be the random part, IMO.

[nexxie]

Ramona bitches at the driver, questioning how thorough he was loading their luggage, then when he's dealing with the luggage, she's shrieking about the wine opener. I just can't feel sorry for her, divorce and all.

Really - this is one big ME ME ME fest with so many self-centered people on board!

Bravo needs a new casting director.

[ryebread]

Somebody's is giving me a million bucks to film.....I will pee in a ditch...no problem. Bring on the cameras and that check.

 

My kid once asked me if I'd have my baby toe surgically removed for $10,000.  (WTH, right??)  Nope.  $25k?  Still no.  After going back and forth for a while, the number I needed to see before losing a toe would be $250,000.  I'd probably pee in a ditch for under a mill.

 

I'm sure you are fabulous! And people know that you know you're fabulous....how? Maybe you've mentioned it?

 

Nah.  She's not the type.  But I'm pretty sure she is even though she's not had to tell me so.

[pbutler111]

The very clear point that's being made is that Carole "mentions it" ad nauseam and strangely inserts these self praises where it doesn't even make sense half the time.

 

You get that we don't see this in real-time, right?  These shows are highly edited, with only something like 44 minutes shown of hours and hours and hours of recorded footage.  If something seems to you to be a non sequitur, it's probably because it's been edited out of context.

[Sincerely Yours]

I'm re-watching Season 2 and just saw a segment where Jill almost fit into a size 0 in Zeng Toi's studio. (This was just after she showed up "wearing a muumuu" because she felt fat.) In a subsequent episode she explains why she's obsessed with her weight, and that she pours water or ketchup on her food so she won't be tempted to eat it. I don't remember Jill getting flak for being gleeful over the size 0 dress. Most women are generally fixated on their problem areas and talk about it to set other women at ease, in the way you'll read an interview with a supermodel who will talk about growing up awkward and dateless because she had braces and acne. Carole's comments about her body make her un-relatable to other women in that way.

Yeah, there's just something very inauthentic about how she does this. Hey Ramona has mentioned and done this that and the other over the seasons but it's in the course of her being her which I don't like half the time but she is being real. Carole does and says shit specifically for effect and so the fact that she chooses self praise and huge ego to be her "script" just shows where her head is at and what she wants to be associated with and known for. Nasty comments, belitting all the while spraining her wrists patting herself on the back. Really? She CHOOSES this way of presenting herself and smirks the whole way.

 

She has a mechanical way about her and I'm not talking about that can opener that's situated right under her nose.

[shoegal]

I'm re-watching Season 2 and just saw a segment where Jill almost fit into a size 0 in Zeng Toi's studio. (This was just after she showed up "wearing a muumuu" because she felt fat.) In a subsequent episode she explains why she's obsessed with her weight, and that she pours water or ketchup on her food so she won't be tempted to eat it. I don't remember Jill getting flak for being gleeful over the size 0 dress. Most women are generally fixated on their problem areas and talk about it to set other women at ease, in the way you'll read an interview with a supermodel who will talk about growing up awkward and dateless because she had braces and acne. Carole's comments about her body make her un-relatable to other women in that way.

And it's exactly this 'I must tear myself down to make you feel better' mandate that I loathe! Why are we doing this to ourselves? It's terrible. I enjoy that Carole doesn't feel the need to do this, it would not make me feel better to watch her walk around talking about how ugly she is or pointing out all of her flaws.

Edited May 13, 2015 by shoegal

[islandgal140]

Odd. I didn't see the Berlin Wall thing as a dis. I thought it was something Ramona herself would say (you know when she has her moments of not mangling metaphors). The not fitting in one of her dresses seemed much more shady to me than the Berlin Wall thing or even the everyone gets phone numbers after midnight. I actually saw her as including herself in the after midnight one. But the Berlin Wall thing just seemed like a funny way to state the obvious - that Ramona had not dated a really long time but she still has it going on. 

 

 

Also, it's probably actually true.... the Berlin wall came down in 1989 wasn't it? If she and Mario were together for 25 years, that's about right.

It wasn't the Berlin wall thing I found to be the offense. It was saying on the one hand that Ramona's got game and than in the very next breath, the very next sentence negating that completely by invoking the 'after midnight rule' - because anyone can get anyone's number after midnight. That was the jab! I don't see how Carole could have been including herself in the joke since she was strictly referencing Ramona. 

Edited May 13, 2015 by islandgal140

[Sincerely Yours]

 

 

 

Nah.  She's not the type.  But I'm pretty sure she is even though she's not had to tell me so.

LOL! ;-)

You get that we don't see this in real-time, right?  These shows are highly edited, with only something like 44 minutes shown of hours and hours and hours of recorded footage.  If something seems to you to be a non sequitur, it's probably because it's been edited out of context.

And there are the conversations that aren't interrupted and obviously run with no interruptions in which I do base my observations on.

[HumblePi]

They did make it in the house. It was in the very beginning, they showed them being kicked out! It's when Heather called her a 'fucking bitch'. I think that's what set them off even more because they were inside already and she came 'barreling down the stairs' or however Heather said it in her TH and kicked them out. I think maybe that's why they referenced foyer so much because they were in that first.

Did Sonja really expect to get sympathy because her sister's best friend died suddenly and that's why her sister was unable to babysit her daughter? What does that say about Sonja?  Does it say that Sonja cares about her sister or even the friend who died? Or, does it say that Sonja is a self-absorbed narcissist that doesn't give two-chits about anyone but herself?  If you're going to order your so-called 'girlfriends' out of your multi-million dollar 4,800 square foot NY apartment because there's no room for them inside and they need to find a covered area to huddle in against the rain because the limousine isn't there yet, then you are honestly not a nice person at all. Sonja and Ramona in particular are 'yappers'. They talk at others ...not with others. Nobody listens.

[film noire]

You are talking about people knowing you are fabulous. The statement was people knowing you think you are fabulous. There is a difference.

 

Not much of one, imo. If you truly are that thing -- embody that quality -- part of that is ownership. It's  very rare to be (frex) stunningly sexy or genuinely beautiful or magnetically hip and be the only one in the whole world to not know that --  that's more of a Nice Guy tm  fantasy than anything real.

 

 

 

I prefer a woman who loves herself and her body and isn't afraid to show it to one who constantly talks about the parts of herself that she hates, which is all too common in our current society.

 

I think most women would agree -- but love does not equal boasting, imo  -- YMMV.

Edited May 13, 2015 by film noire

[Pattycake2]

 

There was no car in sight, so we go into Sonja’s house, hoping for a warm welcome and to be able to chill inside until she is ready and all the girls arrive. Well, it turns out it was colder inside Sonja’s house than it was outside, because she refused to let us in and asked us to lug all of our suitcases and bags and go and wait at the Starbucks on the corner, instead. This made absolutely no sense. She has this huge townhouse in which she lives alone, and of course her interns, and she asked us to meet her there, and now we have to go and wait around the corner at Starbucks, because she’s running late and behind schedule.

 

And Bethenny texted Sonja the night before to tell her that she would late, but Sonja didn't tell the other women until they arrived.   

 

I saw Carole in a bikini last season.  It's nice that she thinks she has such a great body.  I mean that sincerely.  Really.  Uh-huh.

[SFoster21]

I'm sure you are fabulous! And people know that you know you're fabulous....how? Maybe you've mentioned it?

Stomach ache! Man! You go, girl!

[pbutler111]

While I agree that it's awesome for a woman to be proud of her body and self, there's this thing called humility. Carole talking and preening so often is just more of her trying to prove how wonderful she is. A woman who truly feels that way, doesn't need to tell anybody about it. She just is.

 

I'm so thoroughly sick of living in a world where it's perfectly acceptable for a woman to go on at length about all the things she hates about herself, but a woman who makes a brief comment about something she likes about herself is denigrated and ridiculed.  People who are having such a hard time dealing with Carole saying something positive -- and completely true -- about her body need to turn their judging gaze from Carole and back toward themselves. It's not the people who are saying positive things about themselves that need to change their thinking.

[Sincerely Yours]

And it's exactly this 'I must tear myself down to make you feel better' mandate that I loathe! Why are we doing this to ourselves? It's terrible. I enjoy that Carole doesn't feel the need to do this, it would not make me feel better to watch her walk around talking about how ugly she is or pointing out all of her flaws.

Or maybe it doesn't have to be the topic of conversation at all? I mean her ass was her tagline last season for crying out loud. Uggghhhhhh. And yes, I loathed Kristens tag line as well.. Yuck! Discussing these things in conversations and in some organic context fine. Girl talk, slumber party discussion, giddy affirmations about oneself and each other just cause.. Hey no big deal. It's the way she presents it that just makes it so obnoxiously off putting.

 

And for the record I'm not a fan of listening to women list all their flaws either. I find that obnoxious as well as if they are fishing for compliments and if they are truly struggling with their self image I still wouldn't like to hear it because it's still ridiculously vain. It all boils down to vanity. Too much concentration on looks, whether it be negative or positive observations suggests that you're focus is spent too  much on a place that's unhealthy and self-absorbed and that's not a good look on anyone.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[Lemons]

Bethenny peeing by the side of the road?  No words.  OK, WTF was this about?

 

I didn't get that at all.  Does she have a condition where she has such urgency that she can't wait for the next rest stop?  If so, wear some Depends when you go on a long trip.

[runforcover]

Another thing that I find hard to believe is that Sonja is claiming that her $7M lawsuit is what's preventing her from moving on from her ex.  Nah.  I think even if she settled that thing tomorrow, she'd find something else to blame for still being hung up on him.  She's the queen of excuses.  And really, I don't think she misses him as much as she misses being Mrs. John Morgan with endless money and connections. 

Lila Fowler! great choice 

 

I think Sonja is absolutely lying to herself on this one.  But here's the thing:  Sonja Morgan, however accidentally awesome her brand crazy may sort of be, is deflecting as a rule.  So, yeah, the money shit is  a very anxiety-inducing thing but it's not THE thing. But I don't think it's about the husband either.  Really, I think Beth is right. Madame Morgan is probably not a terrible person and probably means as well as any of these loons ever do.  But - and I do not say this lightly or with any of the typical RH glee - I'm kind of getting an addict-y/alcoholic-y vibe from her.  As soon as she started listing vitamins and the doc that was going to look over her list ... no.  She just presents as that kind of delusional that I see from later stage addicts who managed to hold it somewhat together long enough because they had financial resources, social capital, and, in S's case, a kind of likability.  And then one day it all somehow goes askew and that person just looks and sounds fucking insane.  Except she isn't.  And I don't buy she's got this trauma either.  I think she has zero coping skills and she's been allowed to live and behave in ways for much longer than would normally be afforded to many others.   

eta: fame and Tv recognition and any other proliferation of Sonja's Very Exciting persona has got to worsen it.  What else can explain the persistent denial of Kim richards other than attention?  Bethenny telling her to stop was a good boundary.  And then attempting to provide some level of trust, also good.  But Sonja's too mental.  She can't maturely respond or hear anything to establish any real opportunity to just be vulnerable-proper. This is to assume, of course, that most of this isn't just all contrived nonsense.

Edited May 13, 2015 by runforcover

[shoegal]

Not much of one, imo. If you truly are that thing -- embody that quality -- part of that is ownership. It's  very rare to be (frex) stunningly sexy or genuinely beautiful and be the only one in the whole world to not know that --  that's more of a Nice Guy tm  fantasy than anything real.

Still, you are talking about two different things, other people recognizing that you are beautiful or sexy or whatever....and other people recognizing that YOU think you are beautiful, sexy or whatever.

Carole thinks she's hot. Ramona thinks she's hot. Frankly, I doubt there is a woman on the RHONY that *doesn't* think she's hot. Carole and Ramona have both explicitly mentioned how hot they think they are....which I think is great. Toot your own horn, ladies!

[SFoster21]

Did Sonja really expect to get sympathy because her sister's best friend died suddenly and that's why her sister was unable to babysit her daughter? What does that say about Sonja? Does it say that Sonja cares about her sister or even the friend who died? Or, does it say that Sonja is a self-absorbed narcissist that doesn't give two-chits about anyone but herself? If you're going to order your so-called 'girlfriends' out of your multi-million dollar 4,800 square foot NY apartment because there's no room for them inside and they need to find a covered area to huddle in against the rain because the limousine isn't there yet, then you are honestly not a nice person at all. Sonja and Ramona in particular are 'yappers'. They talk at others ...not with others. Nobody listens.

The entire situation is beyond confusing to me. Someone upthread spoke about Sonja's house layout. IIRC, they said the kitchen is on the entry floor and Sonja said that they could hang in her kitchen. She just didn't want them upstairs...? Not clear at all what happened there.

[Mozelle]

From Heather's blog:

 

 

 

What happens in Atlantic City…comes back to NYC

 

I totally understand running late. I’m usually not the best at being on time, and there never seems to be enough hours for all the things I try to jam into my day. I get it. I don’t like to pick on people about things like this, either. We were all given a time to meet at Sonja’s--10am. She wasn’t ready, and Bethenny was going to be late, too. The kind and hospitable thing to do at this point would have been to invite your guests into your home to wait, not leave them standing in the cold rain for over an hour. What happened to common courtesy and manners?

 

I was literally shocked when one of Sonja’s many interns told me “Lady Morgan isn’t receiving guests.” The same “Lady Morgan” who has allowed me to make sure she is able to get home safely is now forcing us to wait in her unheated vestibule. This was insane to me. I also found it very hard to believe Sonja was clueless about the car situation. She was the one who arranged all the details for this trip. Just invite us in, offer me a glass of water, and I would have been happy to wait it out for hours.

 

I also didn’t care that Bethenny was late. I wasn’t mad at all; I would have just appreciated a text. Only Sonja had been given a heads up, and since we were stuck out in the cold, that message wasn’t relayed. Kristen and I both have small children that we like to take to school, as well, but out of respect for the group and everyone’s time, we both made other arrangements this day.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Mozelle

[shoegal]

Or maybe it doesn't have to be the topic of conversation at all? I mean her ass was her tagline last season for crying out loud. Uggghhhhhh. And yes, I loathed Kristens tag line as well.. Yuck! Discussing these things in conversations and in some organic context fine. Girl talk, slumber party discussion, giddy affirmations about oneself and each other just cause.. Hey no big deal. It's the way she presents it that just makes it so obnoxiously off putting.

Pretty sure production writes and chooses the tag lines, Joyce from RHOBH mentioned this at the reunion, as she was displeased with hers.

[film noire]

I'm so thoroughly sick of living in a world where it's perfectly acceptable for a woman to go on at length about all the things she hates about herself, but a woman who makes a brief comment about something she likes about herself is denigrated and ridiculed.  People who are having such a hard time dealing with Carole saying something positive -- and completely true -- about her body need to turn their judging gaze from Carole and back toward themselves. It's not the people who are saying positive things about themselves that need to change their thinking.

 

Carole reminds me of a stereotypical, off-putting Laydeez Man; bragging how good God has been to him with his package size-- praise Jesus! --  while taking shots (or laughing at others doing the same) at older or chubbier women around him, women who don't live up to his standards. There' s nothing woman-positive about any of that, imo.

Edited May 13, 2015 by film noire

[Lola16]

I think the dead horse resides in Kelly's apartment.

[jaync]

No idea how Madonna relates.

JFK Jr. and Madonna dated.

I said way back when on TWoP that Sonja should just chunk all the product ideas and put out a bio, because she probably had some tales to tell. She may not can remember enough details of her life to make an interesting read at this point, though.

 

It seems there are far more comments about Carole praising herself than actual comments made by Carole praising herself.

[eXiled]

It's terrible, but as I watched Sonja's hilarious attempts to mount Luann, I kept thinking that a Sapphic encounter between them would probably feel strangely familiar. Between the Pirate, Harry, and any number of millionaire swordsmen Sonja and Luann have in common, it is my contention that they've been screwing each other for years. The revolving array of NYC bachelors simply act as proxies.

[bichonblitz]

Please don't hate on me for saying this, but...If anybody should be bragging about their looks, it's Kristin. Not only is she beautiful (which Carole is not), her body is perfection. I like her style,too. In her younger days, she made a nice modeling career out of her beauty.  I know most of you here don't like Kristin, and I really haven't figured out why. Except that she's married to a douche. And maybe she lacks in intelligence. We could say that about Lady Morgan, too. 

Edited May 13, 2015 by bichonblitz

[HumblePi]

I can't believe what it is like in front of Sonja's house. All that construction and traffic! She didn't want them coming in because the place is falling apart is my guess.

I think that Sonja's Manhattan townhome is far from falling apart. It was for sale at one point in time for $7.2 million. Here's some photos and a drawing of the layout. I think there's enough room inside to have the women wait inside and not under an awning in the rain. And with her unpaid personal assistants at her disposal, she might even have had one of them make a tray of coffee or tea for the women while they waited for Sonja and Bethenny. Wouldn't that have just made everything run more smootly and not ruffled any feathers unnecessarily?

 

 

Edited May 13, 2015 by HumblePi

[Sincerely Yours]

 

 

It seems there are far more comments about Carole praising herself than actual comments made by Carole praising herself.

And that I think says something. For some reason Caroles self praise stands out because she WANTS it to stand out. It's her delivery, her demeanor, how she inserts it. It's true Ramona has spoken plenty about herself, her accomplishments yada, yada and yet for some reason Carole's handful of comments garner such a reaction. Hmmmmmmm. Why? Because it's also partnered with a bigger part of who Carole is as. Her behavior, her mocking tone, her belittlement and disregard. I think it's that she does these things and says these things just so she can't poke at her audience while at the same time have this air like she's better than everyone else.  I think the praise goes along with the dislike I feel about her because she just doesn't stop throwing it out there how much better she thinks she is than other people and while I get that that's how she's having fun with her part on this show I don't appreciate her desire to do it at the expense of others so readily. It's not just the body image its the whole shebang when it comes to Carole. She's such an ugly person and yet she has the nerve to place herself so highly on a level that she just doesn't rate. I wouldn't mind her antics so much if she wasn't so dead set on assigning herself so much importance. Hey have a laugh, have some fun, appreciate yourself, be resilient, let it roll off your back, be cool, etc. etc.. Sure, great but to do her little act and then still give off the vibe that she's some authority on ANYTHING just disgusts me and no, I refuse validate her in any way shape or form because she doesn't rate and even though that is only my opinion I value my opinion so there ya go. Makes me happy to point out just how irrelevant I feel the Radzster really is. :-)