S04.E22: Operation Mongoose: Part 1 / S04.E23 Operation Mongoose: Part 2

[Crimson Belle]

I loved Robin Hood until this show. Now he's ruined forever.

[Actionmage]

I was entertained, definitely. I also will come back to see Dark Emma.

 

Can you refuse The Call if you are an Author?  Is Henry still the New Author?

 

This just proved, to me, that I'll love Ginny and Josh in anything.

 

I did like that Lily was one of  Evil Queen Snow's hunters.  At first, I thought it was Marion. *sigh*  Having Red as a huntswoman would have been excellent too. :: hopes for the future::

 

I am as curious as everyone else about what Rumple's "clean" heart means going forward. Maybe he's reset and he's got that 50/50 chance at being good now? (Are we that lucky?)

 

It was nice to see August again. Maybe he can team up with Lily to track her dad down?

 

Now Emma apparently has the power to bind the Dark One to a person which was why they needed Merlin.  So what is Merlin going to do, bind it to someone else?  If he could have done something else, he would have done it before.

 

I thought the Darkness chose to bind itself to Emma, who allowed it to bind to her.  Everyone's gonna  portal to find Merlin. I could have misunderstood, of course.

 

Still enough to chew over, but I loved the live chat and the comments here.

[Worsel]

Yeah this two hour AU should have been at least half the season. Much more fun than what we got with the QoD.

Agree except the OoD gave us the brief enjoyable scenes (Ramen and Road Trip) that I loved so much.

[pezgirl7]

So full disclosure, haven’t watched this episode. Based on what I gathered reading through the live chat (plus piecing that together with what I know from the spoilers thread), I don’t think I will be watching the finale at all. Here's what I got happened:

• Emma and Hook don’t show up until the second hour
• Hook dies in the AU
• Robin and Regina TLK or something to save the day. *vomit*
• Henry is the new author *vomit x 2* (because people should be giving all powerful positions to 12 year olds. Ya, that’s not at all like giving a toddler a live grenade. I mean, what could go wrong *rolling my eyes*….Ya, everyone single person in the Enchanted Forest is too stupid too live. This was a Henry Sue episode, wasn’t it. I'm still voting for #KillHenry2k15)
• In the last 5 minutes, Emma disappears and now Emma is the new Dark One. Pfft, f that noise. Added salt in wounds bonus: she did it save Regina, Unrepentant Mass Murderer Extaordinaire, UGH! FFS <insert_multiple_expletives_here>!! I’m composing vicious hate mail to the writers in my mind)

Did I get most of this right? Because if so, I’ve no interest in watching any of this. Any CS scenes can be gotten on YT and many have already appeared in GIFs on my tumblr dash, so…there’s that...

This was one of the best, if not best, episodes of the season for me. CS have some cute scenes in the first hour. There was no ILU or kiss between OutlawQueen. They didn't help save the day. I liked Henry in this episode, and I'm not sure if he is still the next author. I liked him telling AU Hook that he had a good sailing teacher, him. Yes, Emma is the new dark one, so just stop watching as soon as she says ILU to Hook. :)

Besides Emma becoming the dark one, one of the only other things about this episode I didn't like was the writer's giving OutlawQueen the same hand bandaging thing as CS. Can't the writer's come up with something new? At least it wasn't anywhere close to being sexy.

Edited May 11, 2015 by pezgirl7

[OnceUponAJen]

Breathing deeply, you all have talked me off the ledge. Unfortunately, that means I now have a whole list of fanfiction I have to write for the summer. This is going to be fun!

Please do, sharky! I can't wait for all the fic. This season ended pretty much like I thought it would after seeing the BTS pics. Wish the hiatus wasn't so long! JMO will rock the Dark One role.

Edited May 11, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[Autumn]

Why didn't they do this weeks ago if for no other reason than to give us more hot, sexy evil Charming.

 

I think Lily's father will likely be Merlin.

 

I don't mind Emma going dark for a while.  I think it will give Jennifer Morrison something to really sink her teeth into and Hook will fight for Emma.  .

 

Regina and Robin.  Zzzzzzz. 

[Selina K]

Just rewinding to end the night on something nice and holy moly that muscle memory scene is incredibly hot. Nice work, there. That scene will take me happily through the hiatus until we get some spoilers in July!

[Dani-Ellie]

But but but ... my poor baby!

 

I actually enjoyed the heck out of that. I loved the ass-backward-ness of the AU and it seemed like everyone had fun playing against type. Dorky AU Killian was the most adorable thing I've seen on this show in a while. As was Emma being, y'know, Emma and Hook not knowing her but still adoring her anyway. (Basically, all of tonight's Captain Swan stuff was the most adorable thing I've seen on this show in a while, haha.)

 

And you know what? I'm totally here for Emma's family and friends banding together to save her. She's sacrificed so much for everyone else; I think it's high time we see everyone else return the favor. So yes, I'm totally looking forward to the mission of saving the savior.

 

It's just in the meantime ... my poor baby. ;)

[KingOfHearts]

I realize it was AU and it's pretty rules-free, hands-off. But what I didn't understand is using Regina's blood to alter the book. Apparently she's a Savior now? Even if she was a light magic equivalent to Emma, why does it work? Why didn't Emma's work then? I would take a freaking Outlaw Queen TLK over this.

 

So what exactly is the point of Henry being the Author now if he can't alter anything? So he's just going to follow people around and write what they're doing? Well if you really need to give a character something to do, then a random job like that suffices I suppose.

[sharky]

Please do, sharky! I can't wait for all the fic. This season ended pretty much like I thought it would after seeing the BTS pics. Wish the hiatus wasn't so long! JMO will rock the Dark One role.

Yes! This is also what I'm taking solace in. JMo and Colin are going to be sooooo good in the fall. So good!

 

And I saw something on tumblr about how Emma took on the darkness because she believed in her family and in Hook to be able to pull it out from her. I love this explanation and it totally made sense. I wish they had put more of an emphasis on this at the very end instead of Emma yammering on about Regina finally getting her happy ending. It should be about Emma being the savior, but it should've also been about Hook and her parents and Henry as well. I'm hoping they'll hear the outcry about this before they go back to the writers room and outline season 5.

[Minneapple]

You could have seriously venomous feelings at the end of their Camelot arc.

 

One of my fervent hopes is that they never, ever, every get the rights to Narnia or Tolkien's Middle Earth. It would make me cry.

 

True, lol. I have no doubt they could fuck up Camelot.

 

Narnia would have entered the public domain last year had Congress not extended the copyright law to something like 90 years beyond the author's death -- ironically thanks to Walt Disney. If that copyright law expired, then all of Disney's works would enter the public domain and bam, it would be ANARCHY. I don't think Disney's paying for that, which is probably why they chose something like Arthurian legend, which has no copyright law.

[pezgirl7]

Maybe Emma went to find Merlin or Merlin summoned her to him?

That's a good idea. So everyone will have to travel to Camelot to find Merlin and Emma, and then figure out a way to undo the darkness. But how horrible can Emma be, since the good guys have the dagger and can use it to make sure Emma doesn't do anything bad?

[bmoore4026]

Oh, it was nice seeing Granny again.  It was even nicer seeing her in that evil old lady outfit. 

 

Speaking of evil counterparts, loooooved Evil Queen Snow.  Ginnifer Goodwin was rocking that dress.  Plus, I rather enjoyed seeing her as the bad guy.  I mean, she killed Doc without a second thought.  Poor Charming's a doormat no matter if he's good or evil.  Also, Belle seemed largely unchanged.  Then again, AlterBelle was married to Good AlterRumple, so I'm guessing there would be no problems.

 

So Emma's the new Dark One, huh?  For a moment I thought the darkness was going to inhabit everyone, turning all of Storybrooke into Dark One timebombs.  But, no.  Instead, next season, we're getting Emma The Black Swan.  We will see Merlin, though.  And hopefully Lancelot again.  Also, it looks like Rumple and the "Queens of Darkness" were working too hard.  All they had to do to turn The Savior evil was pull the darkness out of themselves, stand back, and watch her selflessly sacrifice herself.  Villains are so stupid.

 

Was the Author and the second story arc, overall, a critique against revisionist storytelling like Wicked and Confessions of an ugly stepsister and dark and gritty retellings?

[Watt]

I'm going to need to read up on "dark one" rules because I forget.. I mean.. Rumple has always been dark one but he doesn't go around all day murdering children. It'll be interesting to see how much "dark" they make Emma.

[OnceUponAJen]

Hook and Emma got to meet for the first time AGAIN in this, which I love. Let's see....met first when Hook was working for Cora in the EF, twice in S3 when Emma and Henry had their memories wiped and Hook came to NY AND in the S3 finale with Past!Hook. Then, tonight....and I guess next season Hook meets Dark One Emma for the first time.

[Mari]

Hey,  does this mean we don't have to have more Imp Rumple flashbacks?  Because not even Carlyle could save a lot of those for me.  Mostly, I wanted to snicker at him and tell him to tone it down.

 

If so, yay!  (Or, at least a little yay!  For now.  Until next season starts and whatever horrors the writers dream up next happen.)

[YaddaYadda]

And I saw something on tumblr about how Emma took on the darkness because she believed in her family and in Hook to be able to pull it out from her. I love this explanation and it totally made sense.

 

This and then so much of this again!

 

Hook in this AU was someone who had zero fate in himself, scared of his shadow practically, he was everything he really isn't, but he believed in her and he died for her and if she doesn't have fate in that love, then there's nothing left.  She trusts her parents and she trusts him and she knows they'll do everything to get her back.

[Blue Plastic]

I realize it was AU and it's pretty rules-free, hands-off. But what I didn't understand is using Regina's blood to alter the book. Apparently she's a Savior now? Even if she was a light magic equivalent to Emma, why does it work? Why didn't Emma's work then? I would take a freaking Outlaw Queen TLK over this.

Isaac had specifically written for Emma not to be the savior in this story so I guess her blood wouldn't work.  And I guess in a way Regina was kind of "a" savior even if not "the" savior since she sacrificed her "happily ever after" to save Henry's life.  She could have gone in and stopped the wedding and gotten what she wanted, but she turned around and stopped Gold from killing Henry, even though she didn't really know or believe that Henry was her son.

 

Kind of reminds me of Anna in Frozen foregoing True Love's Kiss with Kristoff even though it could save her life and using her last moments to save Elsa from being killed by Hans.  Except that I have a harder time accepting that this kind of sacrifice would come from somebody like Regina but whatever...

[ParadoxLost]

Hey,  does this mean we don't have to have more Imp Rumple flashbacks?  Because not even Carlyle could save a lot of those for me.  Mostly, I wanted to snicker at him and tell him to tone it down.

 

The scenes between Rumpel and Issac in the boo were awful too.  They were really hamming it up.  It was really awful dialogue and acting.  I was wondering it was intentional.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm thinking they're going to steal a lot of stuff from the show Merlin.  Bet the dark one magic belonged to Morgana first.

[Selina K]

I realize it was AU and it's pretty rules-free, hands-off. But what I didn't understand is using Regina's blood to alter the book. Apparently she's a Savior now? Even if she was a light magic equivalent to Emma, why does it work? Why didn't Emma's work then?.

This is why alcohol is your friend with this show. I already blocked this plot point out of my memory.

[OnceUponAJen]

Right before the soul-crushing ILY fakeout, I don't think I've ever seen Emma so lighthearted. She actually laughed. I wish we got to see more of that.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Hey,  does this mean we don't have to have more Imp Rumple flashbacks?

Sparkly Imp Emma!!!!

Edited May 11, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[tennisgurl]

 

This is why alcohol is your friend with this show. I already blocked this plot point out of my memory.

I`m pretty sure a big contributing factor into me loving this episode was the giant glass of wine I was/am drinking while watching.

 

That, and Charming`s guyliner. 

[Souris]

I'd go with Uther which means that Lily would inherit Camelot or what's left of it.

 

Uther PenDRAGON.

 

I loved Robin Hood until this show. Now he's ruined forever.

 

Eh, if Robin Hood can survive Kevin Costner & his "English" accent, he can survive Once.

 

I'm going to need to read up on "dark one" rules because I forget.. I mean.. Rumple has always been dark one but he doesn't go around all day murdering children. It'll be interesting to see how much "dark" they make Emma.

 

I don't think you need to read up on Dark One rules, because they'll just change it b/c Emma became it differently.

[Selina K]

I`m pretty sure a big contributing factor into me loving this episode was the giant glass of wine I was/am drinking while watching.

 

That, and Charming`s guyliner.

I was probably somewhere around half a bottle. I told my husband all I wanted for Mother's Day was to watch the show and participate in the live thread. It really enhances the show watching experience.

Love the guy liner. Also Emma punching out the author was pretty quality entertainment.

[Chaos Theory]

If there isn't a million and a half Heroes and Villains fanfic I will be disappointed. Hell I might write some the episode was so much fun.

Someone should open a board for just AU stories that they like.

[Delphi]

I have my probLems with the episode, but apparently the actors didn't. Every single one of them looked like they were having a blast playing something new. And Ginny's hair was something that should be kept.

Rumple having a stasis break looks to me that they may be writing him out. Probably at Roberts request.

And no one here cares but my Rumbelle heart is breaking.

[ParadoxLost]

I was probably somewhere around half a bottle. I told my husband all I wanted for Mother's Day was to watch the show and participate in the live thread. It really enhances the show watching experience.

Love the guy liner. Also Emma punching out the author was pretty quality entertainment.

 

Finishing your post for you before I read it all, I thought you were going to make your husband wear the guyliner for Mother's Day.

[Watt]

The live thread was great. I was on my phone so I couldn't participate as much but it really was like watching the show with friends!

[Jul 68]

The Vikings fan in me would love it if Lily's father was the ouroboros Jörmungandr, but I don't see A&E being that creative seeing as the ouroboros symbolizes rebirth, recycling, the return to one's true nature, etc.

No, I predict daddy dragon to be the Jabberwocky as it will give them the chance to possibily explain Will and Ana.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Jul 68

[Mathius]

Rumple having a stasis break looks to me that they may be writing him out. Probably at Roberts request.

More like his contract was always for 5 seasons and it's finally getting to that point.

No, I predict daddy dragon to be the Jabberwocky and it will give them the chance to possibily explain Will and Ana.

Jabberwocky was female, so I doubt it.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Mathius

[LizaD]

This AU just proves Ginny is the best actress on the show. She made a way better evil queen. Too bad she's stuck in such a thankless role. Her and dork Hook were the best things about a lackluster AU. They could've had so much fun with it and only those 2 got to play.

The way I understood it, Emma is as powerful as Merlin cause she was able to tether Black Flubber. Only Merlin's smarter cause he found some other schmuck to tether it to. I don't think the flubber was going to stop at any one person. It was just going to keep going and eating up all in its path. The solution was to tether it, it wasn't stopping itself. Why would it self-contain? If it did, Merlin wouldn't have needed to tether it in the first place, if it was going to do it by itself.

I still say Merlin is going to be the real big bad. Dark One Emma is a red herring.

On the other hand I think this is a hint that next season will be the last. Conquering the source of the Dark One's powers is a series ending kind of story. There's really no place else to go after that

You're seriously underestimating A&E's ability to rewrite fuckery over and over again. I say rewrite cause they keep repeating the same stories and lines. Nothing is really new.

[Jul 68]

I wish we had live chats for more episodes. This has been much more fun than Twitter.

[tennisgurl]

Merlin huh? No one saw that coming...

 

I continue to roll my eyes at Robin/Regina and their "true love". Its not going to happen, writers! Stop trying to make it happen! 

 

Everything about the Charmings was wonderful. Telling the stupid Author what for! Aplogizing to Hook for killing him! I love all the evil counterparts of the good guys. Evil dwarfs! Calling evil Granny a flea bag! Snow being in love with James! This is about as much as they've gotten to do in ages, other than this whole dumb "stealing Mal`s baby" thing. I just hope Evil Snow didn't control Evil Charming the way Regina controlled Graham. Because gross. 

 

Poor Emma. Locked up in a tower, for who knows how long, while all her friends and family have been screwed with, and none of them know her. Speaking of...

 

Captain Swan! Oh my sweet babies! The actually big Love You from Emma was kind of rushed, but I`ll take it. Hook`s AU death scene killed me. Colin and Jen, man. They are just wonderful, together and separately. I`ll post more about them later, but of all the loves in the world, there's is probably the most beautiful and pure.

 

I agree with the general sentiment. This should have all been the back half of the season. We wasted too much time on the QoD, who, while having some good episodes and moments, turned out to be pointless. I would have much rather spent time exploring the AU than listening to villains bicker, and pointless Angst.  

[mjgchick]

Right before the soul-crushing ILY fakeout, I don't think I've ever seen Emma so lighthearted. She actually laughed. I wish we got to see more of that.

We also learned that Hook doesn't mind being submissive. Then again he does seem to enjoy being tide up so I shouldn't even be shocked.

[Jul 68]

Jabberwocky was female, so I doubt it.

Blast! Thanks for the correction.

ETA: All I have left is Elliot from Pete's Dragon.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Jul 68

[OnceUponAJen]

I seriously expect Hook to hold it over the Charmings' heads that they killed him in the AU. And I don't want to hear any more out of Charming about not trusting Hook. It should come up at every family holiday dinner.

[Mari]

This AU just proves Ginny is the best actress on the show. She made a way better evil queen. Too bad she's stuck in such a thankless role.

Meanwhile, somewhere else on the Internet, I saw posts explaining that Goodwin was not such a good Evil Queen, and how fabulous Parilla was at playing both the Evil Queen and the Bandit roles.

 

(Parilla did just fine, but I have to agree with you--Goodwin was fabulous.)

 

 

Okay, I brought this up in the Livechat, but since we're posting here, now:

If Robin and Regina were drawn together despite the AU because of their true love, why was the Author able to overwrite Charming and Snow's true love?

Edited May 11, 2015 by Mari

[KR Vermont]

AU wimpy Hook was painful to watch.

Enjoyed Henry kicking some ass as needed.

Of course Emma finally squeaks out an ILY to Killian only to get disappeared seconds later. Forget Regina--poor Killian can't get a love break lately (a quick tumble onto the bed is but a tease).

Looking forward to Merlin and Dark Emma, AND not hearing "happy ending" for a while.

[OnceUponAJen]

We also learned that Hook doesn't mind being submissive. Then again he does seem to enjoy being tide up so I shouldn't even be shocked.

Well, we know that Emma is into the handcuffs!

[Writing Wrongs]

When did Emma become a master swordswoman?

[chrisvee]

Hook's been teaching Emma some moves...

[satrunrose]

I really enjoyed this. 

I liked

- Captain Swan!!! SO much awesomeness, from their first meeting in the AU (Emma giving Hook a knock-over hug and Cabin-boy Hook giving her a handshake back), to the muscle memory scene to AU tv boyfriend getting stabbed by other tv boyfriend. I can almost, sort of forgive the non-reaction to all of the other 50 million times Hook has almost died this season because this one was awesome. 

- Evil Ginny and Josh, especially Evil Snow. I figured we were in for 2 hours of shattered sight Snow and Charming, so I'm impressed that they managed to do something completely different. 

- I also saw the end as Emma sacrificing herself because she believes that her family and her one-handed pirate will save her. That's so much growth from Pilot Emma, which makes me a happy camper. 

- I'm kind of excited for Emma the Dark One. I think JMo and CO can do a lot with material like this, and there are a couple of interesting ways it can go. Much more interested in September than I was in Frozen (even though it ended up being my favourite half-season since 2A) or the QoD (I wasn't hugely interested in them when they first appeared and they were never well used)

- I liked Henry's Hero's journey. It was nice to have him back to the independent, Hero Henry from season 1 while avoiding the stupidity that was the whole Pan heart fiasco. 

 

What I didn't like

- Too much Regina focus (she's the saviour now, really?)

- The AU would have been fun to spend more time in

- While I said above I think Evil Emma has some interesting potential, I'm still annoyed that Emma feels she owes anything whatsoever to the woman who caused her to get sent through a wardrobe, alone, when she wasn't even an hour old to have a truly crappy life. I know Emma's the saviour but come on!

Edited May 11, 2015 by satrunrose

[mjgchick]

Regina's technically not the savior though right? I thought whatever happened in the AU world was fiction? If Regina was the savior wouldn't she be able to handle the darkness?

[LizaD]

Are they deliberately referencing Lost with this story? It sure feels like it to me. The Swan station-Hatch on Lost was built to contain all the electromagnetic waves and here a Swan is containing all the dark stuff.

[Mari]

Are they deliberately referencing Lost with this story?

I can't say for sure--was never a Lost fan--but, since referencing Lost is their second favorite thing after Regina?  Most likely.

[KingOfHearts]

So why didn't Rumpbelle TLK? I totally expected that to happen.

 

 

I thought of LOST with the choosing of the pen scene. It reminded me of the objects that were once brought to a young John Locke.

All I could think of was choosing the blue pill or the red one.

Edited May 11, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[InsertWordHere]

Are they deliberately referencing Lost with this story? It sure feels like it to me. The Swan station-Hatch on Lost was built to contain all the electromagnetic waves and here a Swan is containing all the dark stuff.

I thought of LOST with the choosing of the pen scene. It reminded me of the objects that were once brought to a young John Locke. 

[sharky]

Are they deliberately referencing Lost with this story? It sure feels like it to me. The Swan station-Hatch on Lost was built to contain all the electromagnetic waves and here a Swan is containing all the dark stuff.

Whoa. Mind blown.

 

So does that mean the darkness that Emma pulled in was the Smoke Monster?