S30.E11: Survivor Russian Roulette

[pamplemousse]

I guess I could google it, but I just can't bring myself to google anything about Will...does anyone know where he's from/lives now? If it's L.A. on either count, I can say from personal experience that there's a current of tension there against the Persian population. When I first moved to the city, I was baffled when several people who had lived there a long time or were native to the area said unpleasant things about the Persian population. I was like whoa, where is this coming from. After living in the city for several years, I heard a lot of anti-Persian sentiment -- mostly from white people, but I wouldn't be surprised if people of other races and ethnicities also shared those unpleasant opinions. So, highly speculative, but along with Shirin being Muslim and a woman, and Will being Christian and a misogynist (not that one has anything to do with each other, he just happens to be both), I wonder if this could be a factor.

[himela]

I don't think what Mike did was such a big betrayal for his alliance. I think everyone was looking for an excuse to make Mike a target and he created it by himself. I bet that if this incident had't happened, they would have found something else to blame Mike for and make him a target. I'm wondering why Mike did not try to approach the rest of his alliance like Tyler, Carolyn and Will, even if he overheard them planning to vote him out. He could have used Rodney's past (he flipped on them to align with Joaquin) to blame him and create this image of Rodney that is unreliable. I'm just surprised on how bad of a gameplay Mike had on that specific day while everything was going for him so smoothly.

 

I think Carolyn has realized that Tyler will win the game if he is taken to the final three with her and someone else, that's why she has started taking herself away from him and their solid alliance. Tyler still thinks Carolyn has his back but in the last TC she showed she was risking or even willing to sacrifice him. I mean, I bet Carolyn and Rodney know that after Mike is gone Tyler is their biggest threat, so why not calling Mike's bluff and, if it had worked, voting Tyler out? If this had happened they would still have the numbers. Will showed his loyalty to his 4 people alliance more than Rodney and Carolyn did, and this shows something.

 

Speaking about Will, I'm wondering why he would not just fakely apologize to Shirin. Doesn't he know that the jury did not like his behavior towards Shirin? In a game where every vote counts he didn't play it smart. It's politics, not real life.

 

Also, if we listen to Jeff's words, Mike should be the winner. Mike is the only possible player Jeff would assume the audience would love to see him win after his mistake and isolation from the group. If we forget Mike's unfortunate comments about women, he totally is the most likable and worthful player at the moment to win.

[Phish]

I’m a first time poster and I’m sorry if this has been answered elsewhere or I should ask elsewhere. But can someone explain why Rodney and Dan keep saying “Mike flipped”.  They imply he first chose Shirin/NC over Rodney/Dan/ect., and so in response they have rejected him and he now has no friends but Shirin/NC.  But it seems to me he always voted along with the Rodney crew until the minute Joe left and then Mike suddenly was deemed to be the “big threat” and suddenly the Rodney crew was gunning for him so he had no choice but to switch to Shirin/NC.  Or is it the auction incident that Rodney is using to say “Mike flipped”?

 

Was there a point along the way where Mike first chose Shirin/NC over the Rodney group and “flipped” on the Rodney group by not voting with them?  It seemed he voted against Jen the first time they tried to get her out and against Hali and Joe when they were voted out.

 

And for that matter, why is it considered “Mike flipping”.  It seems to me Rodney “flipped” first to Carolyn/Tyler/Will and brought along Dan/Sierra.  Why didn’t Dan/Sierra/Mike get on Rodney’s case for “flipping” at that time?

[Wings]

Mike has been the unspoken target of Rodney's alliance for a long time.  I doubt Mike's outburst had anything to do with his position other than bringing it out in the open.  No one wants to sit next to him in the end.  There is no way Mike could have or can flip anyone to his side. 

 

Phish.  It was Rodney who set up his sub alliance, Mike did no flipping. 

Edited May 1, 2015 by wings707

[AZChristian]

Speaking about Will, I'm wondering why he would not just fakely apologize to Shirin. Doesn't he know that the jury did not like his behavior towards Shirin? In a game where every vote counts he didn't play it smart. It's politics, not real life.

 

 

 

These folks spend a lot of their time lying to each other as part of the "Outwit - Outlast - Outplay" philosophy.  I think your question is a good one. 

 

Perhaps Will didn't "fake apologize" because he doesn't understand that some even in his own alliance may think he went way overboard with his attack.  Did any of them defend Will when Jeff was asking about it during either TC?  He's probably sitting there thinking they all think she "had it coming to her" . . . and they're really thinking, "I am NOT gonna touch this with a 10-foot-pole." 

 

So none of the current jurors will vote for Will and - unbeknownst to him - neither will anyone else in his alliance.  I think almost everyone in the world except Will and his wife recognize that he was out of line.

Edited May 1, 2015 by AZChristian

[ProfCrash]

I prefer no apology to a fake apology. A fake apology that sounds real is hard to do and I actually think people would rip Will harder for faking an apology then really apologizing. It is almost the same situation that Reed found himself in last year after the final tribal council speech. It is not what we wanted to hear but why give a BS apology when you don't think one is owed?

 

I am more disgusted that Will does not see it as being owed then the fact that he didn't give one.

[ozlsn]

Dan had so many fine moments in this episode!  It's impossible to choose my favorite!

 

1. Hawking up great gobs of spit while insisting to Shirin that "I'm listening!"

2. Devouring 3/4 of a hamburger - I'm sorry, a CHEEEESEburger, in one rapturous, ecstatic, revolting bite

3. Whispering to Rodney during the IC: "You want it, baby!  You know you want it!"

4. Adoption > domestic violence

5. Telling Shirin that he was sorry about what happened while desperately trying to arrange his facial features into something resembling compassion (that must've hurt)

 

 

6. The wonderful "blowing" noises he did along with "smell ya later" to say that Mike would be gone at the next vote while Dan was on the reward.  I was sitting there going "did he just do that?  How old is he, 15?"

And does anyone else think that Dan spent weeks practicing his sound-bites and facial expressions in the mirror before he went off to Survivorland?

 

And he's still TERRIBLE at them.  His "surprised" look makes him look like a dead fish.

[Calamity Jane]

Yes, it's normal. I've never known anyone from Iran to refer to themselves as Iranian. 

I cannot say this with any certainty, but my understanding has been that identifying as Persian is kind of a political statement, relating to Iran under the Shah (Persian)  and Iran after the Shah's fall (Iranian).  Again, not sure about that, but where we lived it seemed to be the case. 

[Special K]

I think especially if Shirin's family came to the U.S. before the Shah was ousted in 1979, they would definitely refer to themselves as Persian.

 

If they came over as a result of the revolution, then even more so.

[Miss Scarlet]

It wouldn't surprise me if Will's hatred of Shirin had something to do with her religion. Saying that someone has "no soul" sounds like a very religious-based comment to make. And even if he thought Shirin was the most annoying person on the planet, saying that someone has "no soul" makes no sense. To be soulless sounds like he thinks Shirin is just evil. And it's totally inexplicable from what we've seen of her.

 

I find some of the reactions to Tyler's gameplay weird. On RHAP they keep talking about him as a potential winner and as a good player. I didn't watch the episode last night and apparently he got a stronger edit than he usually does. But I still don't understand them speaking so highly of his game, other than the fact that he looks like a combination of Cochran + some random alpha male. When women (like Sierra) play this game it's considered under the radar, boring or coattail riding. But when a man does it, it's great gameplay and winner potential? And this comes after Rob just had a podcast to discuss the sexism on the show!

 

And if Shirin is calling other people stupid and morons - well, it isn't good gameplay to do that to their faces, but you know what? They are stupid and they are morons. So I approve.

Edited May 1, 2015 by wudpixie

[needschocolate]

Speaking about Will, I'm wondering why he would not just fakely apologize to Shirin. Doesn't he know that the jury did not like his behavior towards Shirin? In a game where every vote counts he didn't play it smart. It's politics, not real life.

 

In his CBS bio, Will says that one of the things he hates is when people don't admit they are wrong. 

 

I guess he truly doesn't think he did anything wrong, but his lack of a fake apology implies that he thinks most of the others do not think he did anything wrong either.  Although, he may say has too much "integrity" to lie about it, but if he realized that there the others think it was wrong, then he probably would niot have continued it at TC last week. 

 

I think that his 15 minutes of fame has gone to his head and he thinks that everyone loves him.  Same with Dan and his preaching.

 

I’m a first time poster and I’m sorry if this has been answered elsewhere or I should ask elsewhere. But can someone explain why Rodney and Dan keep saying “Mike flipped”.  They imply he first chose Shirin/NC over Rodney/Dan/ect., and so in response they have rejected him and he now has no friends but Shirin/NC.  But it seems to me he always voted along with the Rodney crew until the minute Joe left and then Mike suddenly was deemed to be the “big threat” and suddenly the Rodney crew was gunning for him so he had no choice but to switch to Shirin/NC.  Or is it the auction incident that Rodney is using to say “Mike flipped”?

 

I am guessing that Rodney spun a story about Mike flipping (Rodney's "facts" are often manipulated), using Mike not going with the  auction plan as evidence that Mike was no longer with them.  Dan felt betrayed by Mike at the auction, so it didn't take much to convince Dan that Mike had flipped. 

[needschocolate]

Apparently, the great rulers of the internet felt that this was a sentiment worth repeating.  I did not, so I am "erasing" the double post. 

Edited May 2, 2015 by needschocolate

[peachmangosteen]

I find some of the reactions to Tyler's gameplay weird. On RHAP they keep talking about him as a potential winner and as a good player. I didn't watch the episode last night and apparently he got a stronger edit than he usually does. But I still don't understand them speaking so highly of his game, other than the fact that he looks like a combination of Cochran + some random alpha male. When women (like Sierra) play this game it's considered under the radar, boring or coattail riding. But when a man does it, it's great gameplay and winner potential? And this comes after Rob just had a podcast to discuss the sexism on the show!

 

Thank you. Tyler's game play is decent, but it's no better than Carolyn's or Sierra's. Really IMO, from what we've seen, I think those 2 are actually playing better than him. But then everyone in the game, including the jury, thinks Tyler will win so. I think from the jury's perspective though it's more because they think he will be able to get Dan/Will/Rodney to the end and win by default because he's more likable. If Carolyn and Sierra can manage to get to the end with Dan/Will they'll win, too. Anyone would, probably even Shirin, so it's not really a testament to anyone's game play that they can beat Will/Dan.

 

I still don't see how Tyler can win and fit the 'one of the most likable winners ever, 'iconic,' and 'you'll definitely know why the winner won' statements from Probst. He got more screentime in this ep, but he still has less confessionals than everyone but Will and Sierra. Hell, he still has less confessionals than Joe, Jenn, and Shirin!

[needschocolate]

Seriously? Nothing I have to say is worth hearing 3 times. 

 

Hereby "erasing" the triple post

Edited May 2, 2015 by needschocolate

[dolphincorn]

 

When women (like Sierra) play this game it's considered under the radar, boring or coattail riding. But when a man does it, it's great gameplay and winner potential?

 

I've always been one of Vecepia's biggest defenders because I believe that you need to play the cards you were dealt. If that's what Tyler is doing and it results in a win, good for him.

[ProfCrash]

This season is so frustrating because we don't know what the hell is happening strategically. It could very well be that Tyler is the one who is working deals for he and Carolyn and has been at the center of the conversations. We have not seen much from Carolyn. We have drawn conclusions about her based on her resting frownie face (Love that term) and her comments to and about Shirin. We actually don't know what Dan or Will's strategies are.

 

We know what type of game that Mike and Rodney are playing but that is about it.

[Wings]

Wudpixie or anyone.  What is RHAP?

[fishcakes]

What is RHAP?

 

Rob Has a Podcast.

[ProfCrash]

Rob Has a Podcast. Rob C from Amazon and All Stars hosts a series of Survivor Podcasts (and a bunch of other shows) He interviews all of the contestants, has an Know It Alls Podcast with Stephen Fishbeck (sp) right after Survivor airs, and does a 3-4 long podcast where he discusses the episode with a former Survivor, looks at social media, and answers some questions.

[Guest]

I still don't see how Tyler can win and fit the 'one of the most likable winners ever, 'iconic,' and 'you'll definitely know why the winner won' statements from Probst. 

I asked this earlier but I don't think anyone answered so I'm going to try again.  Jeff has said in the past that he doesn't know who wins until the finale like the rest of us.  Has he ever suggested otherwise?  Or is he telling us that whoever wins of the FTC three, we'll feel they're iconic and we'll 'know why they won'?  

 

I just wonder if Jeff still doesn't peek at the result but is 100% sure of who won regardless, due to how FTC shakes out.  I mean, maybe every single juror's speech is something like "I hate you, Will,   I hate you, Dan.  Congrats, Mike."  

Edited May 1, 2015 by Guest

[SHOgirl]

I thought it was transparent as hell. No way was Mike going to use his immunity idol on Shirin. He already showed his true colors at the auction. He lies. No one should ever believe a word he says.

I prefer all three to Mike. They may be jackasses but they're genuine jackasses. Mike's just a liar and a sneak.

Go Mike! Since few have won Survivor while not lying or being sneaky, and even fewer have won while being "genuine jackasses," I hope Mike lies and sneaks his way to a cool million.

[Wings]

Rob Has a Podcast. Rob C from Amazon and All Stars hosts a series of Survivor Podcasts (and a bunch of other shows) He interviews all of the contestants, has an Know It Alls Podcast with Stephen Fishbeck (sp) right after Survivor airs, and does a 3-4 long podcast where he discusses the episode with a former Survivor, looks at social media, and answers some questions.

 

Thanks.  Yes, just did not connect with the letters.  This is the first season I have not listened to him since he has been doing this.  

[Wings]

I asked this earlier but I don't think anyone answered so I'm going to try again.  Jeff has said in the past that he doesn't know who wins until the finale like the rest of us.  Has he ever suggested otherwise?  Or is he telling us that whoever wins of the FTC three, we'll feel they're iconic and we'll 'know why they won'?  

 

 

He knows! He reads the votes the minute that urn is safely behind closed doors with a few trusted producers!   I never believed he didn't know.  Earlier they wanted to heighten the drama thus his claim.   pffffffffft

[plurie]

I think Will and Tyler just believed Mike's bluff and voted accordingly. Dan, Sierra, Rodney, and Carolyn decided to call Mike's bluff and voted the way they originally intended to. But it is interesting to me that Carolyn decided to call Mike's bluff there. She could've lost Tyler. It makes me wonder if Carolyn has somewhat replaced Tyler with Will/Rodney or at the very least has just stopped relying on Tyler to be her #1 ally.

Not really. If Mike was telling the truth, Shirin would vote for Tyler, but Mike would vote for someone else. If everyone in the "solid six" not named Dan discussed this, and two of them voted for Dan, that would mean Dan would be voted out. If Mike is LYING, and votes for Tyler (as he did), it would be a tie, and Dan would be voted out on the revote. If Mike is totally bluffing (as he was), Shirin goes home. Tyler was never in any danger of being voted out.

[Guest]

Can anyone direct me to the interview where Jeff says this season's winner will be iconic?  Thanks!  

[ljenkins782]

Hmmm, very interesting scenario presented on a Youtube Aftershow with some former Survivors.

 

 

They suggested that if Mike had given Shirin the idol BEFORE tribal and she presented it as her own before the voting (but didn't actually play it after the voting happened), people probably would not have voted for her. In that scenario, they'd be far less likely to try to call the idol bluff because Shirin had no reason NOT to play it for herself, while Mike obviously had a lot of reasons not to play it for her. 

 

Obviously, the only risk there would have been that Shirin would cross Mike by playing the idol, but I don't think she would have. 

[onalark]

You are not allowed to do that. You can only do that before the votes are cast.  

In Heroes Vs Villians, Parvati played two HIs for other people after the votes were cast.  In other words, Parvati played the HIs exactly as she would have played one for herself except she gave them to two others (Jerry and Sandra, IIRC).  

 

It makes no sense (to me at least) that you would have to play a HI before votes were cast.  If so, Mike's bluff was "called" by his own actions before anyone voted. If you re-watch the episode, you'll see that everyone was waiting to see what Mike would do after the votes were cast when Jeff said "if anyone has a HI ... " - they were waiting to see if at that point Mike would give the HI to Shirin. To me, that clearly suggests you can give away an HI after the votes were cast, a la Parvati.

[ProfCrash]

The individual necklace has to be transferred before the vote. HII are played after the vote. I think some people were suggesting that Mike should have given Shirin the individual immunity necklace after the vote, which is not allowed.

[himela]

Tyler was never in any danger of being voted out.

Of course he was. If people outside his 4 people alliance (Dan and Sierra) thought this was the opportunity to get rid of Tyler and keep Shirin who is weak in challenges and is an easy vote for next time, then the votes would be 4 for Tyler (Mike, Shirin, Dan and Sierra), 4 for Shirin (Tyler, Carolyn, Rodney and Will). Will voted for Dan as did Tyler, so now the votes are 4 for Tyler, 2 for Dan and 2 for Shirin. Tyler would go home so easily if Dan and Sierra could wake up and take advantage of this opportunity to get rid of the second most powerful player after Mike, but they chose to remain faithful to an alliance that has already sold them out. I hope now they know they are 5th and 6th and they have no chance of being in the final three, unless a great miracle happens.

[ljenkins782]

 

They may not have voted for her, but

If they call the bluff and either vote for Shirin as planned or split the vote in her favor, she goes home with Mike's idol and he has to win the next IIC;

She has time to hand the idol back to Mike before the votes are read, she can say "nope, not playing it" and give it back to him so it's not in her pocket on the way out. 

 

 

The individual necklace has to be transferred before the vote. HII are played after the vote. I think some people were suggesting that Mike should have given Shirin the individual immunity necklace after the vote, which is not allowed.

Yeah, the quote onalark was responding to was referring to transferring the necklace after the vote, which is definitely not allowed for good reason. 

[ProfCrash]

I think I heard on Rob Has a Podcast that the idol cannot be transferred to someone without playing it after the votes are cast. So if Shirin has the idol when the votes are cast, she cannot hand it back to Mike and say "I am not playing it." She has to hold on to it and if she is voted out, then the idol goes with her. Mike can choose to play the idol for her after the votes are read if he wants since he is in possession of the idol.

 

I do think that giving the idol to Shirin and letting her wear it before the vote would have worked. No one would believe that she was not going to play it on herself. The problem for Mike is that Dan would be the person voted out. So Mike would have saved Shirin and had the idol but he still doesn't have numbers. It would have been Mike/Shirin vs Rodney/Tyler/Will/Carolyn/Sierra.

 

Sierra is not flipping unless there is someone to flip with her and that won't happen with the group of four.

 

All Mike could do is bluff with the idol. The way he played it puts Dan on notice that he got two votes from within his alliance. Dan has an advantage that no one knows what it is. Well, Tyler and Carolyn do but Mike doesn't. So he can pull Dan in based on the two votes that Dan got. Dan knows that he is going this week, Mike has the idol if he doesn't win immunity. So Dan is forced to work with Mike because the likelihood that Dan wins immunity is about .01%.

[millennium]

Go Mike! Since few have won Survivor while not lying or being sneaky, and even fewer have won while being "genuine jackasses," I hope Mike lies and sneaks his way to a cool million.

 

Get the butter.  I think he's toast.

[Jersey Guy 87]

Believe it not, Mike is the only remaining player who has yet to receive a vote against him at tribal council. Who would have guessed, after his messy beginning and after being a big target for half of the merge phase, that this would be the case...

 

It's not that surprising, actually.  Before the merge he only went to one TC and was a leader of BC.  After the merge there was the initial focus on NC and Mike started winning immunities.  So there have actually been very few opportunities for anyone to vote for Mike.

 

 

They need to bring back people who have never, ever seen this show before.  All recruits who aren't 20 steps ahead of a move.  I guess it was worth it seeing Tyler and Dan look nervous tonight.  Shirin made a good point that it did cause some people to flip and potentially see who was on the bottom.

 

But then people will complain that we can't have a season of all recruits, we need people who know how to play the game.

I think there has been a fair amount of good strategic play this season.  What they have to fix in casting is Dan, Will, Rodney, etc.  A season of people who know how to play is fine, a season dominated by assholes is not, regardless of their game play.

 

Have we seen Dan establish an alliance with Tyler/Carolyn/Will?  On the Reward Challenge he was acting like it was an established thing.  I got the impression that they (Tyler, at least) were just humoring him.  

 

Of course they were.  Rodney, Will and Carolyn have a final four alliance with Rodney.  Dan is a convenient vote to help them get there and then be discarded when they don't need him.  Seemingly everybody playing the game understands this except Dan.

 

I thought Dan encouraging Rodney during the IC was a riot.  "Mike needs this to stay in the game but you want it."  Yeah, that's advantage Rodney all the way.

[SHOgirl]

Loathe Shirin and her "I'm a victim" guess what sweetie - there are a lot of victims in the world - but you will NEVER know it because they keep that to themselves. Unless, of course, they are using it to manipulate others to get what they want or for some sympathy.

I know! We all know the true victims are ones who've been victimized by being adopted into loving homes. My heart weeps for those poor souls.

[SHOgirl]

Right??? It was creepy as hell. I have visions of him as some serial killer, whispering into a woman's ear. Dan just gives me the most squicky vibes ever.

If any of you watch Bob's Burgers, Dan at the immunity challenge reminded me of Jimmy Pesto playing Burgerboss while mumbling inappropriately and sexually. He was really really creeping me out.

[Guest]

Thank you, my friend who messaged me the link to the article I asked for!  Here it is if anyone else wants to read it.

 

http://parade.com/377745/joshwigler/jeff-probst-digs-deep-into-survivor-worlds-apart-the-30th-season-of-the-hit-reality-series/

 

He doesn't actually say "iconic".  Does he elsewhere?  I think it sounds like typical pre-season rah-rah.  I think he could've been referring to anyone.  "It would not surprise me if..." is very flexible and not really a strong prediction or opinion.  Add in "with an asterisk--we have to see how it all plays out" and he's pretty well hedged.  

 

Here's the end bit-

----------------------------

You listed your Top Ten Survivor Winners of All Time. Obviously, it’s way too early for you to be specific, but where do you think this season’s winner will ultimately fit in the mix? When the dust settles on Worlds Apart, what kind of conversation are we having about the winner?

Jeff:  I think you’re right, that it’s with an asterisk — we have to see how it all plays out — but it would not surprise me if the winner of Season 30 became one of the favorite winners of all time. I do think when this season is over, the audience will feel that whoever has won has absolutely earned it, and this is a very good season of Survivor played very hard by very good players. That’s why I like this group. They play. There is no monkeying around. There won’t be anyone saying, “Well, there wasn’t really any strategy this year…” No. There’s strategy from the get go.

-------------------------------------

I feel like all the past winners had 'absolutely earned it', especially seasons where the competition was tough and mean.  I agree with him that it's no "let's be BRob's sheep" type season, at least.  They're playing.  

Edited May 1, 2015 by Guest

[LadyChatts]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't see a lot of playing and strategy this season.  It's been a standard, get in an alliance and just eliminate targets, then realize your next but it's too late to do anything about it.  Unless it is all cleverly hidden in the editing.  But no surprise, I completely disagree with Jeff's statement.  I would agree that it doesn't appear to be a lot of sheep, just a lot of people thinking they know what's going on but really have no idea. 

 

The only person left that I can see fitting that description is Mike, who is the odd man out and next on the Pagonging list.  His idol and winning immunity are the only things keeping him in the game.  I don't know if Jeff would make a statement like that about Sierra.  And I don't particularly see Carolyn fitting that scenario, either, unless they reference that she was slated to be kicked off first but survived, and here she is.  Of course the only way I can see Carolyn winning is being in the final 3 with Will and Dan.

 

I wonder if Jeff regrets all this pre-season hype.

Edited May 1, 2015 by LadyChatts

[escatefromny]

Thank you, my friend who messaged me the link to the article I asked for!  Here it is if anyone else wants to read it.

 

http://parade.com/377745/joshwigler/jeff-probst-digs-deep-into-survivor-worlds-apart-the-30th-season-of-the-hit-reality-series/

 

He doesn't actually say "iconic".  Does he elsewhere?  I think it sounds like typical pre-season rah-rah.  I think he could've been referring to anyone.  "It would not surprise me if..." is very flexible and not really a strong prediction or opinion.  Add in "with an asterisk--we have to see how it all plays out" and he's pretty well hedged.  

 

Winston9-DT3 I didn't find an article where Jeff says "iconic" although vaguely recall that term in an article I read.   In digging, I did come across Probst in TV guide and think many posters may be thinking of this article as one of Jeff's more effusive re the current cast -- He says: 

 

"This is the Best Overall Cast We've Ever Had"

 

and

 

"But person to person as a group, this is a really strong group and one of my favorite casts ever."

 

Yikes!  He did hedge about the winner as Winston points out but there isn't much backing away from this. 

 

Here is the link for the TV Guide article:  http://www.tvguide.com/news/survivor-season-worlds-apart-jeff-probst-white-blue-no-collar/

 

PS -- You're welcome for the article forward.

[Guest]

I interpret Jeff liking this cast to mean he sees them as serious players and likes that in a season.  Most of them (left) really know the game.  Some have used novel strategies, like Mike's last tribal gambit to show Dan just how low on the totem pole he is.  They scramble rather than just accept defeat when their time is short.  They ally with people they hate if it's in their best interests (Sierra with Dan).  

 

I do like to see people play hard, a lot.  But I wonder if Jeff knew just how mean they'd come across in the edit, or mis-predicted how viewers would respond?  He knows these players personally so I'm thinking to him they're not these cartoon villains, just normal people who said some harsh things when starved, stressed and exhausted.  If you remove the 'asshole factor' and amplify the 'play hard' factor, anyone might love this cast.  (I don't.  Not yet, anyway.  Not anyone left, that is.)

[peachmangosteen]

If everyone in the "solid six" not named Dan discussed this ...

 

They didn't discuss it at all. According to Shirin, as soon as Mike made his spiel, Probst made them all shut up and not even look at each other and they had to immediately vote. He/Production were probably hoping more of them would dumbly believe Mike's pitch and that Shirin would end up saved.

 

I would agree that it doesn't appear to be a lot of sheep, just a lot of people thinking they know what's going on but really have no idea. 

 

Which reminds me of RI, another awful season, but with a much better cast.

Edited May 1, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Guest]

 I would agree that it doesn't appear to be a lot of sheep, just a lot of people thinking they know what's going on but really have no idea. 

 

They could know more than we do.  They were there.  Of course, we see things they don't.  But if they understand the game, and they seem to, they would make rational decisions based on the info they have at the time.  We have different info so it usually always seems irrational or wrong.  

[Jal]

These people don't know anything about strategy.

[Zuleikha]

These people don't know anything about strategy.

I don't think anyone other than Dan has had a clear opportunity that they passed on, though. It's unfortunate Mike is bad at the interpersonal manipulation side because if he were better at it, he would have been able to get Dan and Sierra to move with him against Rodney/Carolyn/Will/Tyler. But he knew that's what he needed to do and he did try. I don't blame Sierra for not going with him when it was obvious that Dan wasn't. Unfortunately, Dan seeing the writing on the wall has been the requirement for any power moves to work. 

 

However, the result is that the game feels like people are just floating on, even when they aren't. It's why even though I think he's a jerk, I can't be mad if Rodney ends up winning. He has played very well.

[needschocolate]

They haven't had to strategize because their hasn't been a need for it for most of them or it has a small chance for success for the unlikely few being Pagonged --- Here's why ---

 

1) It has always been a large alliance vs a small alliance (or a small group of outcasts).  There has been no reason for any of these people to flip or try to vote out a threat from their alliance.  Because the large alliances have been so much larger than the small ones, there is little hope of the members of the smaller alliance to woo over enough people from the larger one - a few weeks ago, when it was Shirin, Joe, and Jenn as the small alliance, the big alliance had 7 people in it - they needed to get 3 people to flip to have a chance of staying in the game.   Two TCs ago, it was 6 vs 3 (because Mike was suddenly on the outs) and they would have only needed to get 2 to flip but Jenn still wanted to go home and Mike probably thought he had a chance to get back in with the BCs. 

 

2) There has been one challenge dominator at a time and they were always part of the small alliance - Joe was it until he was out - and once he was out, Mike became the challenge threat, but he was now on the small alliance side.  You have to really dislike your alliance to flip and join an alliance that has the guy who will probably win his way to the Final TC. 

 

3) There are so many unlikable people playing and the people on the jury are more likely to vote for someone on the small alliance.  Members from the large alliance aren't going to flip to join an alliance wit people that are liked by the jury.

 

3) Dan is dumb. Rodney is the only one who seems to have really implemented any sort of strategy - he has been able to convince 2 different pairs that they are part of the final 4.  Dan doesn't realized that he is the bottom of that alliance (although he may now).  Then again, this may not be a good example of Dan being dumb.  He has been with Rodney since the get-go and if you were going to the final TC, you would rather be sitting next to Dan instead of Tyler, so it may make sense that Dan thinks he is going to the end.  Then again (again), Dan thinks his great game playing will get him a million so maybe he does think he is a bigger threat than Tyler. 

 

Now that I think about it, why would Rodney would want to sit on next to Tyler at the Finale?  Why Tyler would want to sit next to Rodney?  Maybe Rodney does plan to take Dan after all.

 

Anyway, the gang of six has no reason to strategize until next tribal, when they have to get rid of one of their own.  I am not sure that finally having strategic playing will make this season any better.  We seem to be heading to us to a finale made up of people who would probably all be considered goats in most any other season (IMO the only hope for a non goat is Mike).  Blech!

[Guest]

How would we know what strategizing they do, or know how to do?  For every minute we see, there are almost 70 we don't.  And that grows exponentially as players don't 'share' minutes, by being separated from the group.  We see less than 1% of what goes on out there.  It's almost ludicrous to even try to judge their game play.  We trust the editors to show us strategizing but they almost never do anymore.  Some poll probably told them it was too dull.  

[millennium]

In his CBS bio, Will says that one of the things he hates is when people don't admit they are wrong. 

 

I guess he truly doesn't think he did anything wrong, but his lack of a fake apology implies that he thinks most of the others do not think he did anything wrong either.  Although, he may say has too much "integrity" to lie about it, but if he realized that there the others think it was wrong, then he probably would niot have continued it at TC last week. 

 

I think Will confuses attitude with character.

[peachmangosteen]

It's almost ludicrous to even try to judge their game play. 

 

Then what really is even the point of posting here? That's what a discussion board is for!

 

I've come to terms with the fact that you're right, needschocolate, up until this point it just didn't make sense for most of the people left to strategize because there really was no reason to defect from the large alliance. Although Dan/Sierra probably should've went a different path, they couldn't have really realized that until it was too late, I guess. They're still stupid, IMO, to think they were gonna get to the end with this group, but they probably had no chance of winning with the other group anyway so it makes no difference really. Also, I think Rodney is probably doing a good job of convincing everyone they're in his F3.

Edited May 2, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Wings]

I think Will confuses attitude with character.

 

 

Will is clearly confused about many things and we can add religion on the list, too. 

Edited May 2, 2015 by wings707

[seacliffsal]

I think it was in Mike's best interest to show his idol.  This way the large alliance will have to target one of their own and show their sides.  If he kept it hidden and then used it to send home someone of his choice it doesn't force the alliance to split.  This way it will be hanging over their heads until the next tribal council.  And, should he win immunity they will really have to scramble as they would know that Mike is safe for the next two tribal councils.  Hopefully we'll start seeing some scrambling and the break down of the large alliance.

[Guest]

Then what really is even the point of posting here? That's what a discussion board is for!

 

I think there are many things to discuss besides  "____ is an idiot because he didn't ____" (look for an idol, strategize, whatever).  But it's just a pet peeve that's boiling over.  I'll deal with it with the ignore feature instead of griping.