S07.E04: The Art Of Being A Cougar

[breezy424]

Well, Heather was not asking Bethenny why Kristen was not invited, she was letting her know that Kristen was hurt by being left out. That way, Bethenny could address it with Kristen personally at some point when she had the chance or was prepared when and if Kristen said anything to her. It was nothing more than a heads up to Bethenny IMO.

 

I agree. 

 

I also think that producers may have suggested to Heather to give Beth a heads up on this.  It's something that they (producers) do all the time on these reality shows.  And yeah, Dorinda wasn't invited but this is her first season and she doesn't have the savvy to know that being left out of an 'event' like this is a big deal.  Kristen knows that and so does Heather.  Heather's heads up to Beth wasn't a big deal in of itself.  Bethenny was the one who made it more of a story by her response.  And then to add fuel to the fire, she tells Heather she was a plus one.  I don't think Heather realized that was the situation.  That was an ouch.  I also think that the birthday party was planned by producers with Beth but Beth controlled the guest list.  I don't think the producers minded that Beth didn't invite Kristen, Dorinda or Heather because of the possibility of some aftermath drama. 

 

Interesting too that it wound up that Heather slipped in on Carole's back.  And I wonder how Carole presented the invitation to Heather.  Seems like she may not have presented it to Heather as a you're my 'date' situation.  The funny part of all of this is that the birthday party was really lame. 

[lunastartron]

Here's the thing, in my opinion. Heather did not limit herself to simply cluing Bethenny in on Kristen's disgruntlement/bewilderment. She proceeded, unsolicited, to instruct a fellow middle-aged on woman on the minute specifics of how said middle-aged woman should respond to future miscommunication, down to what Bethenny should hypothetically say. How is that less confrontational than Bethenny providing a direct reply to Heather direct question regarding whether or not she was a plus one? Heather deliberately and specifically excluded Ramona from a cast trip that was going to inevitably encompass multiple episodes; by contrast, Bethenny did not single out a particular cast mate for the proverbial cold shoulder vis-a-vis an event for which there was no guarantee that it would even make it to air (entire rendez-vous between the majority of the casts have been excised from Orange County and Beverly Hills before). I don't recall Heather coddling Ramona or apologizing for "hurting" her as she suggested Bethenny do with Kristen. . . in fact, wasn't she a little irked that Aviva decided to stay in the city with Ramona (and thus ensured that there would be usable footage of the two "boycotting" London)? Heather didn't care about Ramona professionally or personally, and that's her prerogative, just as it is Bethenny's to find the hair-splitting desperation for conflict tiresome and aggravating. The other element that no one has addressed is why the onus of responsibility in this nominal context falls on Bethenny. If, as has been suggested, Carole organically discussed inviting Heather with Bethenny during their night out - then why didn't she broach the possibility of Bethenny extending an invite to Kristen if inclusiveness is such an important practice? And in addition to her efforts to educate Bethenny in the edicts of her own version of Emily Post, Heather - along with Carole - tried to argue with Bethenny about exactly how well she knows and how many times she has met Josh.

[Petunia13]

Doesn't anyone remember when Carole had her dog in CA she only sees a few times a year because "dogs don't like NYC life"? So basically she's a dumbass for that and a hypocrite for buying a puppy in NY now. News flash Carrie Bradshaws just as "with it" gramma, dogs aren't an accessory you can borrow from Susan Sarrandon to appear likable on camera, or adopt for a cutesy HW scene then leave to languish in a human less home with your random friends or paid walkers to checkin on it, or buy with your kiddie bf as a ploy to bond him to you.

They are living things with feelings who aren't objects! Got it you inbred looking rickety strange eyed cougar?

Edited May 3, 2015 by Petunia13

[Grneyedldy]

I'm already soooo tired of the "invite" crap. Think about it.....if things went down like we are being told, Heather was invited the night before or day of B's fake birthday party. The invite did not come from B herself. How does Heather not know that she was a last minute add? Plus one or not? The whole thing is STUPID. Please Bravo, don't make this an issue for the whole season!

I do however think that everyone that was at the fake bday party was also invited to the real bday party after.

And speaking of the unseen bf of B's......from what I read, he didn't want any part of the show so it makes sense B wouldn't talk about him. Does it make the show feel less organic? Yes, but what is she supposed to do, talk about him anyway? Same thing with not showing Bryn or Sonja's daughter. It is what it is. It's a shame though because I think seeing both those women in Mother mode would be better for their images.

[Beden]

 

I also think that the birthday party was planned by producers with Beth but Beth controlled the guest list.  I don't think the producers minded that Beth didn't invite Kristen, Dorinda or Heather because of the possibility of some aftermath drama.

With respect, I have to disagree with this as my take on this mess is that the various cast members were handed a script or call sheet for that day's shooting; some were on it, some weren't.

 

Being invited (or not) to a faux birthday party had nothing to do with anything. These women are paid cast members of a fake, scripted reality show. They appear in the scenes they're told to be in. Any feelings; hurt, outrage, jealousy, happy or whatever are simply part of that week's plot.

 

Yes, I'm a cynic but I also spent 30+ years making my living in theater and film and, frankly, in my view, pretty much anything on this or any reality show is simply bullshit. It may be entertaining bullshit, but bullshit it is.

[jaync]

Doesn't mean that he doesn't do douchey things but it does mean that the good or kind things you might do will never show up on the show.

If Andy personally edits each episode with the purpose of making those he dislikes/likes look bad/good, then how come Beth is coming off so shitty?

 

I just don't think she is that bad.

Yeah, in comparison to some of the other HW kids across the board, so far she doesn't seem to be all that terrible. (The 'brows and makeup are a different story.)

 

Heather didn't care about Ramona professionally or personally, and that's her prerogative, just as it is Bethenny's to find the hair-splitting desperation for conflict tiresome and aggravating.

Given her gratuitous biting and dramaqueening, it appears to me that Beth is more than welcoming to some discord.

[KFC]

Doesn't anyone remember when Carole had her dog in CA she only sees a few times a year because "dogs don't like NYC life"? So basically she's a dumbass for that and a hypocrite for buying a puppy in NY now. News flash Carrie Bradshaws just as "with it" gramma, dogs aren't an accessory you can borrow from Susan Sarrandon to appear likable on camera, or adopt for a cutesy HW scene then leave to languish in a human less home with your random friends or paid walkers to checkin on it, or buy with your kiddie bf as a ploy to bond him to you.

They are living things with feelings who aren't objects! Got it you inbred looking rickety strange eyed cougar?

 

This was discussed at length on TWOP at the time, and I'll reiterate what some folks said there: Of things one might criticize Carole for, keeping Margaret (the dog) in Los Angeles isn't one of them. LA *is* infinitely more dog friendly than NYC, and if she has the means to provide for her dog to live and be cared for with someone who can better watch her dog, then more power to her. 

 

It was pretty clear from the episode (at least to me) that Margaret isn't in a kennel nor a recent addition, the dog has basically been living with someone other than Carole for a while and will only come stay with Carole when Carole is in her LA place. It's semantics, really. Carole foots the bill for an animal but isn't the primary caregiver day-to-day.

 

The whole revelation that "Carole has a second home in LA" basically proved that she's crafting a "just-getting-by, single gal in the city" persona for the show, and her real life is probably very different than what we're seeing. Not that I always enjoy what we see of her on screen, but I think it's a pretty big stretch to say the dog isn't being cared for or that Carole is irresponsible for trying to find a more suitable home for her.

[selhars]

Think about it.....if things went down like we are being told, Heather was invited the night before or day of B's fake birthday party. The invite did not come from B herself. How does Heather not know that she was a last minute add? Plus one or not?

 

I was wondering about that too.

 

It was pretty clear from the episode (at least to me) that Margaret isn't in a kennel nor a recent addition, the dog has basically been living with someone other than Carole for a while and will only come stay with Carole when Carole is in her LA place. It's semantics, really. Carole foots the bill for an animal but isn't the primary caregiver day-to-day.

 

People send money to make sure kids in third-world countries get food and care too that doesn't make them their children. Sure I guess Carole technically owns the dog. But -- really -- it's more like she rents it, or has it on retainer. She likes the "idea" of having a dog "sometimes." I could love having a dog too, if it was not at the primary house I live in, I saw it just several times a year, AND I paid someone else to take care of it.

 

Hmmm, what to people usually think of parents who have their kids raised by someone else and shipped off to boarding school as soon as they're old enough? Who just see them several a few times a year -- and even then -- pay a nanny or household help to take care of them? Usually those parents don't get kudos and are thought to be NOT the best. So Carole gets no points from me for her "dog ownership."

Edited May 3, 2015 by selhars

[ScoobieDoobs]

Yeah, in comparison to some of the other HW kids across the board, so far she doesn't seem to be all that terrible. (The 'brows and makeup are a different story.)

 

OK, we're not seeing Miss Eyebrows torturing small children, or murdering anyone or robbing old ladies (altho I wouldn't be surprised if she steals Dorito's credit cards whenever she can), so I guess that means what?  That she doesn't get the award for worst reality show offspring we've ever seen ever, right?  But she's annoying, bratty, snotty, insulting, lazy & just not especially likeable.  Would anyone here wanna hang with this really annoying obnoxious chick?  Not me.

 

With respect, I have to disagree with this as my take on this mess is that the various cast members were handed a script or call sheet for that day's shooting; some were on it, some weren't.

Being invited (or not) to a faux birthday party had nothing to do with anything. These women are paid cast members of a fake, scripted reality show. They appear in the scenes they're told to be in. Any feelings; hurt, outrage, jealousy, happy or whatever are simply part of that week's plot.

Yes, I'm a cynic but I also spent 30+ years making my living in theater and film and, frankly, in my view, pretty much anything on this or any reality show is simply bullshit. It may be entertaining bullshit, but bullshit it is.

 

 

I would think with your theater experience, you could tell if the people on the show were acting.  Since none of them here are actors, if they were attempting to act, wouldn't they appear very forced & stilted?  I'm not seeing that.  I do think all scenes are set up by producers & they basically improvise.  Now, is this improvising a form of acting?  I think it is.  But I don't think they work from a tightly scripted format.  I suspect we could tell if they did.

 

The scene with John & Dorito arguing looked pretty real.  They were probably told by producers to just be themselves & interact.  And what we saw is how their relationship is.  Not pretty.  I suspect Miss Eyebrows isn't quite as obnoxious as we've seen, but she's playing up to the cameras (maybe because of producers' prodding or maybe cuz she's trying to hog some camera time).  

 

Yeesh, Carole is constantly trying to do this.  I don't think producers are responsible for Carole's constantly changing personalities.  That's all on her.  And if these changing personalities (which btw, Carole, hun, not so thrilled with your latest drug-taking, vomiting personality) are any indication of Carole's writing skills . . . get thee to a ghostwriter quick, Carole.

Edited May 3, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[motorcitymom65]

Here's the thing, in my opinion. Heather did not limit herself to simply cluing Bethenny in on Kristen's disgruntlement/bewilderment. She proceeded, unsolicited, to instruct a fellow middle-aged on woman on the minute specifics of how said middle-aged woman should respond to future miscommunication, down to what Bethenny should hypothetically say. How is that less confrontational than Bethenny providing a direct reply to Heather direct question regarding whether or not she was a plus one? Heather deliberately and specifically excluded Ramona from a cast trip that was going to inevitably encompass multiple episodes; by contrast, Bethenny did not single out a particular cast mate for the proverbial cold shoulder vis-a-vis an event for which there was no guarantee that it would even make it to air (entire rendez-vous between the majority of the casts have been excised from Orange County and Beverly Hills before). I don't recall Heather coddling Ramona or apologizing for "hurting" her as she suggested Bethenny do with Kristen. . . in fact, wasn't she a little irked that Aviva decided to stay in the city with Ramona (and thus ensured that there would be usable footage of the two "boycotting" London)? Heather didn't care about Ramona professionally or personally, and that's her prerogative, just as it is Bethenny's to find the hair-splitting desperation for conflict tiresome and aggravating. The other element that no one has addressed is why the onus of responsibility in this nominal context falls on Bethenny. If, as has been suggested, Carole organically discussed inviting Heather with Bethenny during their night out - then why didn't she broach the possibility of Bethenny extending an invite to Kristen if inclusiveness is such an important practice? And in addition to her efforts to educate Bethenny in the edicts of her own version of Emily Post, Heather - along with Carole - tried to argue with Bethenny about exactly how well she knows and how many times she has met Josh.

Heather didn't suggest to Beth what she might say to Kristen until she lost her shit. Prior to that Heather was just giving her a heads up as to how Kristen was feeling. I keep reading where Heather had no business telling Beth she should have invited her, or shouldn't have demanded Beth explain her reasoning. This is confusing to me because Heather didn't do any of these things. I am sure an argument could be made that she should not have brought up the topic at all, but I cannot imagine an argument that could be made that Beth was right in her response. She has every right to invite or not invite the people she wants. Heather has certainly done this in the past. She could have very easily put Heather in her place without being so rude. Hell, Heather did that over and over again about the England deal. Both Sonja and Aviva said they thought she was wrong, but she didn't go all dog day afternoon on them. She explained her reasoning and moved on. And she did apologize to Ramona for hurting her feelings by not inviting her, but stood her ground on why she did it. Beth should take a lesson here.

In her blog she said that she hates the way HW invites always turn out to be a big deal and bring drama. She was very well aware that it would be noticed and talked about. If she really wanted to make sure it didn't cause drama she shouldn't have been dramatic. This is only being discussed because of her reaction.

[imjagain]

Well, Heather was not asking Bethenny why Kristen was not invited, she was letting her know that Kristen was hurt by being left out. That way, Bethenny could address it with Kristen personally at some point when she had the chance or was prepared when and if Kristen said anything to her. It was nothing more than a heads up to Bethenny IMO.

That's how I saw it too.

I also don't think Beth gave shit that Heather brought it up in front of Dorinda (I would not have brought it up in front of Dorinda, but that's me) as Beth clearly said she thought it was ridiculous for Dorinda to even feel a little hurt to be left out.

That's our Beth, there to bark at you that you are ridiculous to have any feeling that she does not approve of.

[ancslove]

I don't think Heather really needed to give Bethenny a heads-up.  Did Kristen have any real intention of making a public issue of it?  (Because it's one thing to tell friends that she felt hurt.  It's another thing to go up to a woman she barely knew and point-blank ask "Why wasn't I invited?")  Did Heather think that Bethenny regretted leaving Kristen out?  Did she think Bethenny wouldn't be able to handle Kristen, if Kristen did decide to force a confrontation?  I just don't know what Heather was angling toward, if she *wasn't* hoping to chide Bethenny a little.  Why would Bethenny need to address Kristen personally about this?  Why would she care that Kristen was hurt?

[KFC]

People send money to make sure kids in third-world countries get food and care too that doesn't make them their children. Sure I guess Carole technically owns the dog. But -- really -- it's more like she rents it, or has it on retainer. She likes the "idea" of having a dog "sometimes." I could love having a dog too, if it was not at the primary house I live in, I saw it just several times a year, AND I paid someone else to take care of it.

 

Hmmm, what to people usually think of parents who have their kids raised by someone else and shipped off to boarding school as soon as they're old enough? Who just see them several a few times a year -- and even then -- pay a nanny or household help to take care of them? Usually those parents don't get kudos and are thought to be NOT the best. So Carole gets no points from me for her "dog ownership."

 

I agree with the first part... that she's not really a full-time owner. But I don't think the analogy of comparing a dog to a child really works in this case. Margaret isn't going to have neglect or abandonment issues, assuming her day-to-day caregiver is giving her the proper attention/exercise/nourishment that she needs. And I'm not giving kudos to Carole for her arrangement, I think it's kinda strange if anything. But that being said, so long as Margaret is being provided for, I don't really see what the big deal is, personally. 

[tulip555]

I'm already soooo tired of the "invite" crap. Think about it.....if things went down like we are being told, Heather was invited the night before or day of B's fake birthday party. The invite did not come from B herself. How does Heather not know that she was a last minute add? Plus one or not? The whole thing is STUPID. Please Bravo, don't make this an issue for the whole season!

I do however think that everyone that was at the fake bday party was also invited to the real bday party after.

And speaking of the unseen bf of B's......from what I read, he didn't want any part of the show so it makes sense B wouldn't talk about him. Does it make the show feel less organic? Yes, but what is she supposed to do, talk about him anyway? Same thing with not showing Bryn or Sonja's daughter. It is what it is. It's a shame though because I think seeing both those women in Mother mode would be better for their images.

I am not sure the mother mode of these two would do a thing for their images...they are both so self-centered, and I think it would make them appear to be NOT fit for motherhood

[LilaFowler]

I don't think Heather really needed to give Bethenny a heads-up.  Did Kristen have any real intention of making a public issue of it?  (Because it's one thing to tell friends that she felt hurt.  It's another thing to go up to a woman she barely knew and point-blank ask "Why wasn't I invited?")  Did Heather think that Bethenny regretted leaving Kristen out?  Did she think Bethenny wouldn't be able to handle Kristen, if Kristen did decide to force a confrontation?  I just don't know what Heather was angling toward, if she *wasn't* hoping to chide Bethenny a little.  Why would Bethenny need to address Kristen personally about this?  Why would she care that Kristen was hurt?

Heather is just a nosy busybody who has to be all up in everyone else's business.

[WireWrap]

I don't think Heather really needed to give Bethenny a heads-up.  Did Kristen have any real intention of making a public issue of it?  (Because it's one thing to tell friends that she felt hurt.  It's another thing to go up to a woman she barely knew and point-blank ask "Why wasn't I invited?")  Did Heather think that Bethenny regretted leaving Kristen out?  Did she think Bethenny wouldn't be able to handle Kristen, if Kristen did decide to force a confrontation?  I just don't know what Heather was angling toward, if she *wasn't* hoping to chide Bethenny a little.  Why would Bethenny need to address Kristen personally about this?  Why would she care that Kristen was hurt?

Because they are all on the show together and will be filming together, Heather just wanted to let Bethenny know Kristen was a bit hurt being left out so that if Kristen said anything to Bethenny or acted differently, Bethenny was prepared/knew what was going on and could address it then.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Heather just wanted to let Bethenny know Kristen was a bit hurt being left out so that if Kristen said anything to Bethenny or acted differently, Bethenny was prepared/knew what was going on and could address it then.

 

 

Yeah, so she would be ready to tilt her head, close her eyes, and pretend to snore in Kristin's face, lol. 

 

ETA: Sorry just kidding but, well, that is how she responded.  Of course Heather couldn't know Bethenny would act that way.  Perhaps it is better that it was Heather who brought it all up, because if Kristin had done it herself and Bethenny did her snoring act in her face, talk about hurt feelings, lol.  And I wouldn't put it past Bethenny to act like that to Kristin at all.  She might even have responded in worse fashion.  Because it was the idea Kristin's feelings were hurt that she found so contemptuous, right?  It wasn't that Heather was butting in, IIRC.  Yeah, so she might have really put Kristin on blast.  That would have been ugly.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Celia Rubenstein

[Grneyedldy]

I am not sure the mother mode of these two would do a thing for their images...they are both so self-centered, and I think it would make them appear to be NOT fit for motherhood

I've never seen Sonja with her daughter other than a few pics. I could definitely see motherhood would just be another area that was all about Sonja. I still would enjoy seeing her interact with her child. I would love to play armchair therapist. Lol

However I have seen Bethenny interact with Bryn on camera. I think it brings out a softer side of B. Unfortunately I think that is the only time her softer side comes out.

[Grneyedldy]

Yeah, so she would be ready to tilt her head, close her eyes, and pretend to snore in Kristin's face, lol. 

 

ETA: Sorry just kidding but, well, that is how she responded.  Of course Heather couldn't know Bethenny would act that way.  Perhaps it is better that it was Heather who brought it all up, because if Kristin had done it herself and Bethenny did her snoring act in her face, talk about hurt feelings, lol.  And I wouldn't put it past Bethenny to act like that to Kristin at all.  She might even have responded in worse fashion.  Because it was the idea Kristin's feelings were hurt that she found so contemptuous, right?  It wasn't that Heather was butting in, IIRC.  Yeah, so she might have really put Kristin on blast.  That would have been ugly.

At this time during the filming, I think Bethenny is on guard with Heather and feels like she (Heather) is trying to provoke her. H brought up the business about buying LuAnn a car or Rolex. Then telling how Ramona has changed and what B should do. And then last show bringing up the bullshit about Kristen. I think B's reaction was childish and rude though I can understand B being a little fed up with H.

[trimthatfat]

I'll be honest, I'd be really annoyed if my friend were dating my niece's ex. It would just be awkward and my loyalty would lie with my niece - not my friend. I don't know if that's why Lu is upset or if there's more to be revealed over time, but I get her annoyance.

[Celia Rubenstein]

If Andy personally edits each episode with the purpose of making those he dislikes/likes look bad/good, then how come Beth is coming off so shitty?

 

 

Because Andy Cohen is a misogynistic piece of crap with a view of women as cockeyed as he is and he doesn't see anything wrong with how Bethenny is coming across since he is vastly overestimating the number of women out there who either act like Bethenny themselves or will find her behavior "cool?" 

[ryebread]

The whole revelation that "Carole has a second home in LA" basically proved that she's crafting a "just-getting-by, single gal in the city" persona for the show, and her real life is probably very different than what we're seeing.

 

I think the only thing being 'crafted' is that Carole actually has another house in L.A.  I don't believe it's true.  It didn't feel true when the segment aired and AFAIK it's never been mentioned again.  Imo, she's incapable of following directions, much less maintaining two homes on opposite coasts.

Edited May 3, 2015 by ryebread

[Celia Rubenstein]

At this time during the filming, I think Bethenny is on guard with Heather and feels like she (Heather) is trying to provoke her. H brought up the business about buying LuAnn a car or Rolex. Then telling how Ramona has changed and what B should do. And then last show bringing up the bullshit about Kristen. I think B's reaction was childish and rude though I can understand B being a little fed up with H.

 

When you put it all in a list that way Grneyedldy, Heather's hard-on for Bethenny is pretty obvious, lol.  What are we, four episodes in?  Heather seems to come up with something for Bethenny every episode. The Luann-deserves-a-Rolex conversation was weird enough, and Heather getting in Bethenny's face a about Kristin was just dumb.  But what really killed me was Heather trying to explain Ramona to Bethenny.  That really just made me roll my eyes at Heather.  Bethenny is an OG on this show and she doesn't need Heather explaining anything about the Ramonacoaster to her. That kind of sealed my opinion of Heather as some kind of uber-alpha female who just has to be running things, directing things, explaining and defining things. Etc etc.  She's gonna drive Beth nuts, lol.  

 

That being said, Heather is still my favorite housewife on this franchise.  Mostly because I dislike the others so much. Oh well.  HOLLA! 

 

I think the only thing being 'crafted' is that Carole actually has another house in L.A.  I don't believe it's true.  It didn't feel true when the segment aired and AFAIK it's never been mentioned again.  Imo, she's incapable of following directions, much less maintaining two homes on opposite coasts.

 

 

No one said they were well-maintained ...

[tulip555]

I've never seen Sonja with her daughter other than a few pics. I could definitely see motherhood would just be another area that was all about Sonja. I still would enjoy seeing her interact with her child. I would love to play armchair therapist. Lol

However I have seen Bethenny interact with Bryn on camera. I think it brings out a softer side of B. Unfortunately I think that is the only time her softer side comes out.

I too like playing armchair therapist......and there certainly is a whole lot of material to work with. I agree, Bethenny does seem to "warm up" when she is with Bryn, although, I just wonder how she will survive being bethenny's daughter.lol Edited May 3, 2015 by tulip555

[Beden]

 

I would think with your theater experience, you could tell if the people on the show were acting.  Since none of them here are actors, if they were attempting to act, wouldn't they appear very forced & stilted?  I'm not seeing that.  I do think all scenes are set up by producers & they basically improvise.  Now, is this improvising a form of acting?  I think it is.  But I don't think they work from a tightly scripted format.  I suspect we could tell if they did.

Yes, I basically agree with you. No, I don't believe that there is an actual script with lines to be read and all of that. I do think that a basic plotline is sketched out made/written before filming begins and that the cast are likely made aware of it--or most of it--and encouraged to run with it. Back in the day Jill decided to stage a season long fake and trumped up fight with Bethenny--against the producers wishes, I believe--it seemed pretty clear that Bethenny was being played by Jill for ratings and airtime. And no, I don't think that the cast are actually actors hired to play parts. I do believe that each season is essentially plotted with a requisite group trip, a couple of parties or charity events where some kind of argument, disagreement, whatever will cause the fur to fly. I wouldn't be surprised if a whisper in someone's ear about 'how about you mention this or say something about that' may move things along. It seems obvious that things like a lunch/dinner/chat on a park bench or somesuch is anything but spontaneous as evidenced by the almost always empty dining room and camera setup in place. And having said that, I also think that sometimes things happen outside the agreed upon plot. Romona's walking in on her husband schupping his new lady friend...and her frantic, off the wall performance last season, as well as her refusal to discuss on the reunion are a case in point as well as Luann's refusal to discuss her real life failing marriage.

 

And you're right, non-actors trying to act can usually be spotted a mile away. I'd guess that the cast is partly chosen for their ability to ignore cameras, either that or they simply get so used to them that they don't even notice them any more--that does happen.I also think that comparing the first season to, say, the current one shows a real difference in what we're seeing with the cast.  And after how ever many seasons these shows have been on, the ladies have largely reached that.

 

And, keep in mind, this is all just MO.

[ryebread]

I too like playing armchair therapist......and there certainly a whole lot of material to work with. I agree, Bethenny does seem to "warm up" when she is with Bryn, although, I just wonder how she will survive being bethenny's daughter.lol

 

Now that Bryn is getting older with a personality of her own, I wonder how warm and accommodating  Bethenny really is after working a 12 hour day.  She appears to be exhausted and always on the edge of taking someone's head off.  I didn't work when my kid was Bryn's age but there times when I just wanted to scream, "Go to sleep.  Go to SLEEEEEEEP."

I hope I'm wrong and she's all unicorns and rainbows after spending untold hours in the car, changing hotels and yelling at people.

That said, my hat's off to single working moms.  Any working mom.  Hell, any mom.  Especially the one that slapped her kid down in Baltimore on national TV the other day. LOL.  I'm not an advocate of beating a teen around the face and neck but that was awesome.

[hoodooznoodooz]

I am shocked that Avery seems to have turned out okay, with Ramona as her mom.

I agree that Bryn is going to have a tough time, as she gets older with her own preferences and opinions and -- god forbid-- emotions that Beth cannot relate to.

[ScoobieDoobs]

I am shocked that Avery seems to have turned out okay, with Ramona as her mom.

 

 

Not me.  Moaner's kind of lunacy or nutbag-ery often skips a generation.  When did we first see Avery -- when she was maybe 10 or 11 or 12?  That girl had the self-assurance of a 40 year old.  Well, actually she seemed more mature (even then) than the latest personality incarnation we're seeing from giggling idiot, responsibility-shirking, drug-taking, vomiting Carole we're seeing now.  

[archer1267]

I suspect Miss Eyebrows isn't quite as obnoxious as we've seen, but she's playing up to the cameras (maybe because of producers' prodding or maybe cuz she's trying to hog some camera time).

 

That's mighty kind of you, because I finally watched and think Hannah's a loudmouth twit. And yes, Dorinda's enabled it. First off, giving your GROWN adult daughter that much power over your personal happiness? Nuh-uh.  I can understand being concerned about your kid if said kid is in formative years, but 21 years old is old enough to be living on your own, holding a job, and/or focusing on your OWN social life, NONE of which we've seen Hannah do. Jeez, if my mom had been through two marriages, I’d be glad to see her happy again. Hannah’s beef about John is his less-than-movie-idol looks - she didn't mention anything about the way he treats her mother. I wouldn't have dreamed of calling my widowed mom a "chubby chaser." (Well, not if I wanted to stay in her life!)

 

LuAnn said she “adores” Hannah and her sense of humor, but so far I’ve only seen Hannah make cracks at other people’s expense, and even the Countless has to admit that that's a pretty classless way to get laughs. And as a daughter of a mother with dementia, fuck you, Hannah. I wouldn’t wish that experience on anyone, but anyone who jokes in a cavalier way about parking her mother in a nursing home and taking her apartment? Isn’t someone worthy of being Dorinda’s first priority. IMO.

 

It's a weird episode when Ramona comes off as the most relatable. Even given her "I left the [therapy dog] papers at home" nonsense.

Edited May 4, 2015 by archer1267

[Cheetosandchoc]

      I finally read through the 9 pages here whew.

So Carol takes and eats unwrapped candy from strangers. Meh, I don't care if she goes to clubs and gets high. She knew what she was taking. It was a cutesy story for the cameras.

 

    I was folding laundry during John and Dorinda's spat. So I may have missed something. I am on the team John side here. I don't find him repulsive or gross.....yet. I bet he would be fun to hang around. So after 2 1/2 years of dating Dorinda is just now making it an issue that John orders her food? I am sure if it was a problem, she would of taken care of it early on. Or she has been resentfully holding on to it all this time. I appreciate her concern for her daughter's feelings, but yeah its not up to her who she does business with. Its on her to slowly incorporate John into their lives. I like that she does not have him spending the night though. She was unnecessarily bitchy and rude to him. Its like she has been saving up al her resentment for the camera. 

 

     Funny eyebrow story. Told my kids to get ready, I needed to get them out of the house and do something. I decided to take them to a Farm and Fleet for shits and giggles (sorry farmers) and my 16 year old comes up with big eyebrows! Not as dramatic as D's daughter, and they looked better on my kid, but I silently laughed to myself about it. Not at her, but because of this discussion. We were terribly disappointed that they were out of goats. I bought pepper spray, and taunted the kids with dried mealworms. There were some odd farmer men in suits and cowboy hats that spooked us a bit. All and all it was fun.

[Persnickety1]

Now that Bryn is getting older with a personality of her own, I wonder how warm and accommodating  Bethenny really is after working a 12 hour day.  She appears to be exhausted and always on the edge of taking someone's head off.  I didn't work when my kid was Bryn's age but there times when I just wanted to scream, "Go to sleep.  Go to SLEEEEEEEP."

I hope I'm wrong and she's all unicorns and rainbows after spending untold hours in the car, changing hotels and yelling at people.

That said, my hat's off to single working moms.  Any working mom.  Hell, any mom.  Especially the one that slapped her kid down in Baltimore on national TV the other day. LOL.  I'm not an advocate of beating a teen around the face and neck but that was awesome.

 

SCARY ISLAND FLASHBACK!!!!!!

 

IMO, no one across all of these franchises will ever top the wax queen Cindy Barshop with her accessory twins.

 

That woman appeared to be hopelessly absolutely clueless as to even hold her children, much less interact with them.

 

I really need to watch that season again so I can see Sonja giving Cindy the "pecking order" lecture...after she rips her ass for dancing with her manservant.

 

BTW, I've read a couple of tabloid headlines in the past couple of days that Ramona is wanting to reconcile with Mario.  Damn, as good as she looks this season, being apart from Mario must agree with her on some level...and I really hope she thoroughly checked into the background of her partner in that sports bar before she maybe invested a whole lot of money into a venture with him.  She wouldn't be the first (nor the last) vulnerable woman to get totally played (see Debra, mother of Farrah from Teen Mom...yikes!).

[ScoobieDoobs]

I wouldn’t wish that experience on anyone, but anyone who jokes in a cavalier way about parking her mother in a nursing home and taking her apartment? Isn’t someone worthy of being Dorinda’s first priority.

 

 

Even Dorito didn't especially take her seriously, but she was clearly taken aback by how dumb this comment was.  My hunch is Miss Eyebrows is definitely obnoxious, but she is ramping it up several notches for the camera.  I think she, like Carole, are making attempts at being funny, but failing miserably.  

 

Well, keep in mind, Satan Andy edited all this shit, so obviously he must think this crap is hilarious -- I mean Miss Eyebrow's obnoxious bullshit & Carole's clubbing/vomiting/responsibility-shirking.  Remember last season he thought George's misogynist crapola was hysterical too.  OK then.

 

Anyhoo, I think Dorito is completely responsible for the snotty character her daughter is.  She's at an age where Dorito would be doing the girl a huge favor by forcing to her go to school or get a job.  Er, so why is Dorito on this show?  She doesn't seem especially rich to me.

[archer1267]

Was anyone else surprised to see that Ramona’s invested in a sports bar?? It doesn’t at all seem like her type of venue. Then again, maybe Manhattan sports bars are a bit different from the beers-n-wings places I’m used to.

 

I read Lu’s blog and while I can understand her POV, enough already with the indignation. I don’t think Carole deliberately went trolling for dates in Lu’s kitchen or set out to hurt anyone. And wasn’t the Johnny Depp pirate the former boyfriend of LuAnn’s supposedly good friend in St. Bart’s? That sure didn’t stop her from aggressively pursuing him. I get that it's her niece and she's protective, but the relationship had ended a year before and everyone's an adult. It's too bad that a friendship had to end because of it.

Edited May 4, 2015 by archer1267

[ryebread]

Moaner's kind of lunacy or nutbag-ery often skips a generation.

 

Then there's hope for Bryn. 

 

Although if Bernadette is as whack as Beth leads us to believe, the crazy is a constant.

[ryebread]

I get that it's her niece and she's protective, but the relationship had ended a year before and everyone's an adult. It's too bad that a friendship had to end because of it.

 

Where did you read it ended a year ago?  If that's that case then I would have a slightly different view of the sitch. 

 

I can totally see Moaner wanting to be the doyenne of a trendy sports bar where all the young bucks come to drink.  She can't exactly get her turtle time in at a classy piano bar for the 55 and over set.  Although watching Ramona dance on a Baby Grand is something I would probably spend $22 for a martini to watch.

[Cheetosandchoc]

Even Dorito didn't especially take her seriously, but she was clearly taken aback by how dumb this comment was.  My hunch is Miss Eyebrows is definitely obnoxious, but she is ramping it up several notches for the camera.  I think she, like Carole, are making attempts at being funny, but failing miserably.  

 

Well, keep in mind, Satan Andy edited all this shit, so obviously he must think this crap is hilarious -- I mean Miss Eyebrow's obnoxious bullshit & Carole's clubbing/vomiting/responsibility-shirking.  Remember last season he thought George's misogynist crapola was hysterical too.  OK then.

 

Anyhoo, I think Dorito is completely responsible for the snotty character her daughter is.  She's at an age where Dorito would be doing the girl a huge favor by forcing to her go to school or get a job.  Er, so why is Dorito on this show?  She doesn't seem especially rich to me.

She may be rich but still lives within her means, and considering the long term. Sonja and her snarky comments. Lu downsizing was smart. It's not just buying the massive home, you have taxes and insurance, and maintnance. There is an expectation to keep up with the Joneses in rich areas. So I can buy that D is wealthy but smart with her finances. Not everyone has Lu's gift for impeccable taste.

[ryebread]

She may be rich but still lives within her means, and considering the long term. Sonja and her snarky comments. Lu downsizing was smart. It's not just buying the massive home, you have taxes and insurance, and maintnance. There is an expectation to keep up with the Joneses in rich areas. So I can buy that D is wealthy but smart with her finances. Not everyone has Lu's gift for impeccable taste.

 

I agree, Cheetos.  Lu was smart to downsize as she did.  She has very good taste but I have to object to the word 'impeccable' when describing her taste, tho. 

 

Because there was that little video called, Chic C'est le Vie, some very bad statement necklaces, and this:

LOL. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[racked]

Heather is just a nosy busybody who has to be all up in everyone else's business.

 

This is completely true, but it's also why I don't think it was so bad. She wasn't telling Bethenny what she should have done or that she was wrong, she was just inserting herself into the situation by telling her Kristen was a little upset. She did preface it by saying it wasn't a big deal at all. Bethenny made it a much much bigger deal than it would have been otherwise. But Bethenny is also pretending to not want drama, while creating drama. She knows how these shows work. 

 

I like Heather, but she is completely a busybody. 

[archer1267]

She may be rich but still lives within her means, and considering the long term.

 

 

FWIW, Dorinda and her late husband (sorry, Bethenny, I'm using the term) bought their Berkshires property in 2005 for $2.11M, and if I have the right address in NYC, they bought their UES apartment in Park Avenue Court for $1.2M in 2007. Frankly, if I was a city dweller, I'd rather have a place to retreat to on the weekends, rather than put everything into one property. 

 

No, it's not John Morgan levels of wealth. I'm not sure what I'd call "rich." But real estate worth over $3M? It's not shabby.

[Higgins]

I have to agree her dinner plate sized necklaces are questionable IMO. They always look cheap to me.

[ryebread]

I have to agree her dinner plate sized necklaces are questionable IMO. They always look cheap to me.

 

I always admired her understated, classic clothes and jewelry and then BAM! along came the dinner plate necklaces that look like they have bits of the family flatware hanging from them.  If she's trying to make a statement with them, I'm not quite sure what she's trying to say. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

No, it's not John Morgan levels of wealth. I'm not sure what I'd call "rich." But real estate worth over $3M? It's not shabby.

 

I agree, it's not shabby.  But it's comparative.  Around here in Manhattan, it's pretty unimpressive.  There are so many peeps here with way more.  Her condo or rental or whatever it is, with those low, low, low ceilings & teeny rooms looks sooooo unimpressive to me.  Altho she seems to get some sunlight so maybe she has a decent view.  As far as this stuff about living within her means?  Well, it just says her means ain't so high to begin with, if she's gotta live in that cramped joint -- stuck right on top of the snotty daughter & having to look at those brows.  Yikers!

Edited May 4, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[archer1267]

Although Dorinda's apartment in Carnegie Hill is modest, her Great Barrington pad is not. Even Ramona would have to admit that even though it's the Berkshires, it's nice! 7 bedrooms, 7 baths and over 10,000 square feet on 18 acres. 

Edited May 4, 2015 by archer1267

[Leroux]

Heather is just a nosy busybody who has to be all up in everyone else's business.

 

I agree that Heather is a busybody. The way she goes about friendships and "defending" her friends makes me think of her as being condescending and thinking that these grown up women can't take care of themselves without her help. Totally annoying.

 

But in this case I think is a combination of both, is she a busybody? absolutely and always; but in this case I do think that Heather was reeling about Bethenny's return, probably as much as Ramona was, except that Ramona had a reason to be, there were rumors of Ramona being demoted to a friend of RHNY, that has to hurt, especially being one of the original ones, Ramona was fearful of her status and to make matters worse they bring back Bethenny, Ramona probably saw the writing on the wall and had to step up her game.

 

Heather was different though, Heather came with a systematic plan IMO, she went as far as doing some digging into the first season, she probably watched and rewatched that scene between Bethenny and Luann when Bethenny first introduced her skinnygirl margarita, she thought and thought about it and decided that she was going to dig Bethenny with it and demand a rolex or a car for her "friend" Luann, as if that would be well received by anybody let alone Bethenny. I think that was the first incline that Bethenny had about what was Heather's game. Bethenny played it cool and just brushed it off , then came the second time and Heather is talking and talking about Ramona, as if Bethenny doesn't know or has ever met Ramona, why? Heather probably wanted Bethenny to say something against Ramona and then Heather as the "good friend" she is would go running to Ramona and use this to make their feud even bigger. IMO Bethenny totally saw through Heather and decided to put a stop to this, she very clearly told Heather that she was done talking about Ramona.

 

Did that stop Heather? of course not, now she has made a big deal out of Kristen's hurt feelings, even through Kristen didn't seem to mind that much. Heather not only gave her the heads up, and if that was her only intention she could have done it in a much different way, just as much as Bethenny is critisized for her overreaction, I want to poin that if Heather was so worried about Kristen's feelings she could have also done it in a much different way, more subtlely or even just give Bethenny the heads up without the other castmates around, Heather stopped the whole conversation at the table, she made a silent preamble to give it even more suspense and then she spilled it as if it was the news of the day. I could tell that Bethenny totally saw through her game at that moment , but instead of ignoring her which would have been great , she decided to fight fire with fire which is never a great idea with someone as passive aggresive as Heather. Bethenny played into Heather's hands, but that in no way blinds me to the game that Heather has played for the last three episodes.

 

Bethenny never started and argument with Heather, not in any of these first episodes, Heather has been the one trying to stir shit with Bethenny is almosty every episode, she is lucky that she got the reaction she wanted, but then again at that point I probably would have told her to Fuck off in a much direct way which these women cannot do, so I do understand Bethenny's reaction.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Although Dorinda's apartment in Carnegie Hill is modest, her Great Barrington pad is not. Even Ramona would have to admit that even though it's the Berkshires, it's nice! 7 bedrooms, 7 baths and over 10,000 square feet on 18 acres.

 

 

Wow, that is a nice house & a ton of land around it.  But Moaner is right (hate to say that) about Hamptons versus Berkshires.  You wouldn't be able to get a house like that, where Moaner is, for less than 4 or 5 times what that place goes for.  And you'd never get 18 acres, unless you're Jerry Seinfeld or Howard Stern or some gazillionaire.  Not sure there's much out there offering that kinda land.  OK, I guess I'm convinced she's got some dough.  Still not impressed with her cuz of that cramped place she's showing off on the show.  Even she said in her TH, she's right on top of Miss Eyebrows.  Not good.  That idiot needs to shave her brows & get a job.

[Mozelle]

So, on the question of Adam and Carole and LuAnn and LuAnn's niece (Nicole Nadeau), Nicole and Adam might have just broken up last fall (or not, they could have broken up before and are friends now). This photo of them is dated September 7, 2014. Finca Farms, an initiative that LuAnn was helping to promote on her FB a few years back, list both Adam and Nicole as members of the crew, but their Instagram hasn't been updated since October 2014. On the other hand, Adam and Nicole could have broken up well before that September photo and have remained friends and business partners. There's this pic of Nicole from his Instagram from December 6, 2014, for example.

 

That all said, I'm really calling bullshit on LuAnn going so hard in the paint at Heather and Carole now. On Carole's IG, she has a picture from January of this year of her, LuAnn, and another woman celebrating said woman's birthday. By this time, LuAnn would definitely have known that Carole and Adam were dating, so why all this outrage as the show airs? Oh, is LuAnn trying to keep her spot on the show? She no longer wants to be at risk of being demoted to FOH?

 

LuAnn's phony behind is showing once again. 

[Ellee]

 

Some guy came up to me and gave me a gummy bear and I went all . . . .

 

[Higgins]

So now they give drugs away? I remember a time when you had to purchase drugs. Socialism has made it's way to the drug market. Who would have thought?

[Lemons]

Yes these are tabloids, but tabloids reflect pop culture.  And the focus was on him being in the Kennedy family.  I know you want to minimize the Kennedy's influence, but they are still considered "American Royalty" so don't kid yourself that people aren't still impressed by any connection.  

On Taylor Swift, you keep missing the point of our arguments.  No one argued WHO was more influential and well known.  Of COURSE it was TAylor Swift.  What I and others have said is that it's hard to imagine her dating a KID IN HIGH SCHOOL if he weren't a KENNEDY.    

 

And hopefully the type of people who follow Taylor Swift know that John F Kennedy was President of the United States, Robert Kennedy was assassinated while running for President, and Ted Kennedy was a long-term influential Senator.  So the Kennedy name should always mean something.  Just not so much in pop culture, but more so in historical terms. 

Edited May 4, 2015 by Lemons

[FozzyBear]

So now they give drugs away? I remember a time when you had to purchase drugs. Socialism has made it's way to the drug market. Who would have thought?

Yeah, Carol bought some E. Simple as that. This entire After School Special story is bull-shit. I will say it one time loud enough so that even the ghost of Beatrix Sparks can hear: Drugs are expensive and people don't give them away! Especially not secretly to complete strangers. Accidental gummi-bear my ass.

I have no idea why Heather is stuck on this game plan, but she is determined to start a fight with Bethanny. Every conversation she has with B ends up with her stirring up shit in that uniquely passive aggressive, Oprah-ish, "I'm just trying to help, Mama" way that she has. And it looks like Bethanny is finally going to bite, so good for Heather I guess. Sad for me that this is the storyline Heather has chosen. Generally I like Heather, but I always want to smack that toothy grin into next week when she starts in on this type of shit.

Edited May 4, 2015 by FozzyBear