S03.E08: The Pit

[Tara Ariano]

Romero confronts Norma about new information that has recently come to light; at the same time, Emma makes a decision about her future with Norman, who is left reeling from a recent discovery; and Caleb and Dylan accept a job that comes with some risk.

[Avaleigh]

I can't believe there are only three episodes left. I'm glad we're getting more seasons because three more episodes would not be enough to wrap up the madness.

 

If Emma is still thinking about her future with Norman then I guess they haven't officially broken up after all. There was so confusion over this so I'm glad to get a bit more clarification. 

[editorgrrl]

If Emma is still thinking about her future with Norman then I guess they haven't officially broken up after all. There was so confusion over this so I'm glad to get a bit more clarification.

Emma's official A&E blog is pretty clear about her feelings: http://www.aetv.com/bates-motel/emmas-blog/

[Spartan Girl]

Wow, Bradley returns the same night Norman loses what is left of his mind. We all know what that means...

Norma is such a child. She blabs to a pseudo shrink and expects there won't be a fallout.

[NorthstarATL]

"Well, so much for therapy."

[riverheightsnancy]

Yeah James, this is why we hold professional distance from potential clients/patients. He knew better and he pursued Norma that very first day at the college. Norma is quite narcissistic as well. James just got tortured and she doesn't care about THAT at all.  Poor Norman. He has gone over the deep end, but if he received treatment (medications) the hallucinations could be mediated and he might actually have a chance in life. 

[Rear Window]

Love the 23' pit that Norma thinks is going to be a pool...diving board and all. I'm guessing Bob is going to leave it like that.

How sweet that Romero got the car back but then Norma had to be dishonest.

Can someone explain what happened when Caleb and Dylan had guns on them? I was assuming one would be shot but the next thing I knew, they were driving away minus the guns? It's not looking good.

I heard Bradley was coming back and was hoping it was going to be wrong.

[Sakura12]

Did Romero really think a mother would turn on her son? Most mothers wouldn't do that. Of course she's going to stick to her story. Was he jealous that she told another guy and not him. 

 

Dylemma escalated a lot quicker than I thought they would when I saw how close Dylan was getting to her when she dropped off his pot plants. I do like seeing them both happy and smiling. Which means one of them is probably dying soon.  

[thuganomics85]

Caleb isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.  Cracked up a this exchange: Dylan (about Emma): "She's with my brother."  Caleb: "You mean Norman?"  No, Caleb, there is another Bates brother out there, they just weren't telling you.  In all honestly, I suspect that line was more that he just couldn't fandom that Norman has a love life, which I somewhat understand.  And, hey, at least he's great with a gun, which he and Dylan clearly needed.  Sound like Chick did something shady to those guys, and were trying to get to him?  Was kind of confused about that.  Either way, I suspect he'll have to answer for all this. Dylan didn't even get the money for Emma's miracle transplant!

 

Speaking of Emma, loved her being all "Oh, I'm just focusing on my health for now on and have no intentions to be in a romantic relationship!" with Gunnar, even though she was not only leaving Dylan brownies, but a note AND flowers.  Yeah, sure, Emma.  You are totally going to be nonromantic from here on out.

 

James is getting the hell out of here.  Can't blame him, after that rough treatment from Bob and the gang.  Who have now used that to get Romero pissed at Norma. I'm bummed it seems over for them, but I can't believe Romero thought Norma was just going to hell her the truth like that.  She told James because she was under the assumption he would never tell.  With Romero, he's the sheriff, so he won't be the same.  I just thought he would take a different approach to this.

 

Norman and Norma were flat-out crazy in all of their scenes.  Vera Farmiga and Freddie Highmore were on fire as always.  It's still so frustrating to watch too.  Sure, I get Norma's frustrations, but I still think if she at least tried to get Norman help, he would have a fighting chance, but her overprotectiveness is probably going to end up doing more harm then good.

 

Bob is digging a hole at Bates Motel.... yeah, that's not good.  That's no pool they're planning.

 

Oh, look: Bradley's back.  I vaguely remember her, so hopefully she'll be more interesting now.

[ganesh]

Was Bradley real or was Norman still in Blackout? It looked like he snapped back to real because the dog disappeared right before that. 

 

Emma: Norman, you may not have noticed, but I'm super dtf. You're not. I'm moving on. 

 

Dropping the "you're going to kill me!" was unexpected but got a good laugh from me. I'm disappointed they used the up shot of Mother in the window because I was hoping it would be the final shot of the series. I guess it's still makes sense because that was Mother and I'm hoping the last shot is actually Norma all stuffed up nice. 

 

I feel kind of bad that Dylan got screwed, though Caleb was useful. 

 

I was also surprised that Romero is going to hand the drive over. 

[Guest]

So who's going to wind up being buried in the pit?  I'm still calling Caleb.  

 

Chick sends them into an ambush.  Nice.  I thought $25k for delivery charge for some guns sounded too good to be true.  

 

I even saw Peltz name in the opening credits and said, "What, Bradley's in this one!?!" And still when she showed up, we both were trying to figure out who it was for a minute!

 

My DVR stopped recording when Norman started chasing Juno.  I thought for sure the dog was going in the pit.  Not that it'd hurt him, of course.  Luckily, a future airing was just ending so we watched it live.  

 

I hated how they filmed Emma breaking up with Norman while perched on the edge of the pit.  I didn't think they'd do it, but you never know with this show lately.  

 

James endured more torture than I would've.  

[AlwaysWatching]

Lovely DVR shenanigans!  I usually watch The Returned right after Bates Motel and I do remember thinking that I would have at least missed a few seconds of Bates if I had not done that. Well, tonight I watched an HBO documentary and had to DVR The Returned at 2am.  So...when I watched the earlier recorded Bates Motel, the stupid twits cut off just as Norman is chasing the dog.  I knew I missed something important.  When I watch TR in an hour or so, I will see that scene.  Looks like somebody came back. Not something mind blowing, but this is my favorite show.  No more of this cutting the show into TR so people will watch that show. grrr

 

The shoot out scene was pretty good even if a lot of it was telegraphed.  Hmm, suppose they would have to show Caleb putting that gun in such an odd place.  He must have known he might have to get down on his knees right at that spot.  Ahh, I kid the writers.  Gun running is boring anyway.  Glad they both made it out (hopefully) unharmed.

 

I was all smiles when Dylan was talking to Emma on the cell phone while gun running.  You know how when you have a crush on someone who might have a crush on you and your talking on the phone and you can't get this silly a-- grin off your face.  Young love. You can't beat it.  It was also very much there between Romero and Norma when he brought her other love ( hey, we've all been in love with at least one car in our lives, amirite? ) back to her.  Too bad that lasted all of five seconds.  It's true.  Norma might cause most of her own problems ( understatement ), but dang, it really seems like she can't catch a break.  How do you tell "the law" that you told some idiot that your son killed his father?  She had held that in for soooooo long.  Trying to remember..did she tell Dylan?  The sad thing is, that this is how life truly is for most people. I mean the misunderstandings, the miscommunications.. two people just being that little bit out of synch with the intensity of their feelings - and I'm not even talking anything Norma/Norman here. 

 

This show just hits all the facets of human interaction.  That HBO documentary was depressing as hell.  Than I watched Bates Motel.  My mind feels like it's squishing around in my head.

Edited April 28, 2015 by AlwaysWatching

[Racj82]

Caleb isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.  Cracked up a this exchange: Dylan (about Emma): "She's with my brother."  Caleb: "You mean Norman?"  No, Caleb, there is another Bates brother out there, they just weren't telling you.  In all honestly, I suspect that line was more that he just couldn't fandom that Norman has a love life, which I somewhat understand.  And, hey, at least he's great with a gun, which he and Dylan clearly needed.  Sound like Chick did something shady to those guys, and were trying to get to him?  Was kind of confused about that.  Either way, I suspect he'll have to answer for all this. Dylan didn't even get the money for Emma's miracle transplant!

 

Speaking of Emma, loved her being all "Oh, I'm just focusing on my health for now on and have no intentions to be in a romantic relationship!" with Gunnar, even though she was not only leaving Dylan brownies, but a note AND flowers.  Yeah, sure, Emma.  You are totally going to be nonromantic from here on out.

 

James is getting the hell out of here.  Can't blame him, after that rough treatment from Bob and the gang.  Who have now used that to get Romero pissed at Norma. I'm bummed it seems over for them, but I can't believe Romero thought Norma was just going to hell her the truth like that.  She told James because she was under the assumption he would never tell.  With Romero, he's the sheriff, so he won't be the same.  I just thought he would take a different approach to this.

 

Norman and Norma were flat-out crazy in all of their scenes.  Vera Farmiga and Freddie Highmore were on fire as always.  It's still so frustrating to watch too.  Sure, I get Norma's frustrations, but I still think if she at least tried to get Norman help, he would have a fighting chance, but her overprotectiveness is probably going to end up doing more harm then good.

 

Bob is digging a hole at Bates Motel.... yeah, that's not good.  That's no pool they're planning.

 

Oh, look: Bradley's back.  I vaguely remember her, so hopefully she'll be more interesting now.

Oh, we know it's going to do more harm than good. We know how this plays out.

 

Damn, Freddie's accent was slipping like crazy during his screaming in the last scene. Screaming is always the worst in terms of hiding accents.

 

I find Vera so damn attractive, I can't imagine having to be a guy who has Vera as his mom and the object of his affection. I would be really confused.

[Bec]

I don't even usually notice these things, but yep, he did sound very English when he was yelling "Wot baaad maaaan?!"

 

I've been wondering when we're going to see the "You're gonna kill me Norman!" from the promos. It's not as exciting as I thought it was going to be. He wasn't, like, actually about to kill her when she said it. Hee. I couldn't help but say to my screen "Oh Norma, you have no idea how right you are."

[BonnieD]

Help. My recording on this show always cuts out a few seconds early. After the dog ran off and Norman chased it, what happened? I'm assuming from what y'all are saying that Bradley turns up on the road?

 

I loved Norma giving Norman her lecture about impulse control when she has NONE! Ha.

[Guest]

That's pretty much it.  Norman chases the dog down the street and then there's a parked car in the road and a girl standing there in the road.  She turns around and it's Bradley, looking a bit dazed and bedraggled.  

[sigmaforce86]

Can someone explain what happened when Caleb and Dylan had guns on them? I was assuming one would be shot but the next thing I knew, they were driving away minus the guns? It's not looking good.

 

Caleb grabbed the gun he'd hidden on the truck and shot the guy nearest them, Dylan grabbed that guys gun and the two of them killed three or four of the guys and it looks like at least two got away.

 

Wondering about the sculpture they had on the truck as cover because it fell off and it's there with the bodies - was Chick lying when he said he sold some of those because if he really did I'm thinking that could lead the police back to them.  If I had to guess I'd say Dylan sticks around awhile longer but Caleb dies to save him and maybe save Norma too.

 

I might be in the minority but I don't like the Bob story line that much, Norma and Romero are great but the whole whole flash drive thing bores me a little bit.  It would be a good end to it though if Bob ends up in that pit instead.   Matching the movie to the series Bates Motel didn't have a pool at all did it?

[Timetoread]

I always come away from this show feeling sorry for Norma - but moreso because everybody blames her for everything.  It's her fault for confiding in a man that claimed doctor/patient confidentiality and then slept with her, claiming he wanted to help.  It's not his fault though for crossing this line and then completely blowing off this confidentiality.  I get it, he was scared and victimized but it never occurred to him that the people torturing him for info on her were going to bring that violence straight to her.  Yeah chivalry is dead and decomposed.

 

It's her fault for Norman being a murderous, nutcase.  All she has to do is go to CVS and pick up those magic "No More Crazy" pills that all parents worth a damn buy for their kids who are nutcases. How stupid of her to not know how easy it is to stop a killer from being a killer and that the end of crazy is just a pill away - hence the fact that there are no more killers or crazy people in the modern world - oh wait. 

 

It's her fault for not telling the sherrif of the town - the same guy who insisted Norman take a lie detector test (the day after his suicide attempt) to ease his own mind - the same guy who she is NOT sleeping with yet, btw - that her son murdered his father and that she took the insurance money and got out of dodge to protect him.  Silly woman!  He's a man.  He's cute.  He likes you and your taste in cars.  Bow to the power of the penis and sell your son down the river!  He asked nicely.

 

I mean, Norma is not at all a perfect person (nobody on this show is), and she seems completely oblivious the effect she has on all things male - including her son(s), but I don't know what is expected of her.  Trust people who aren't trustworthy with the fate of her special needs child around whom she's built her life?  Turn in this kid to get brutalized in the prison system?  Drag him on chains from one crappy therapist to another who will tell him that his thoughts are inappropriate but not how to stop having those thoughts?  Institutionalize him (which is my answer, btw)?  To someone like Norma that constitutes adandonment.  No she does what she can to shield and protect him.  Sometimes she breaks under the pressure of that.  I would too, tbh.

 

Romero may be sporting a boner for her because he thinks she is beautiful, but his intentions are not to protect her and Norman, they are to "do the right thing".  If that means taking Norman away forever, so be it. James acted like he wanted to help and protect and she confided in him and gave him access to Norman, but you see how that went down.  That right there pretty much sealed the deal that Norma will never again go to someone for help.  In her eyes, it is she and Norman against the world.  And from her vantage point, I'm inclined to agree with her.

 

The whole thing is so sad.  Neither of the Bates' are bad or malicious people but there is just no winning this.  I think the deep hole is symbolic of this situation.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Timetoread

[Avaleigh]

So who's going to wind up being buried in the pit?  I'm still calling Caleb.  

I'm thinking Bradley with her excellent timing is going to wind up in the pit. I'm thinking Caleb's death will be something that isn't covered up and will be public knowledge.

 

It couldn't have been more obvious that the gun shit wasn't going to work out. At least Caleb had reservations. Dylan's clearly not thinking at all. How could Dylan not think they were being set up. I thought he was supposed to be the smart one!

 

 

I always come away from this show feeling sorry for Norma - but moreso because everybody blames her for everything.  It's her fault for confiding in a man that claimed doctor/patient confidentiality and then slept with her, claiming he wanted to help.  It's not his fault though for crossing this line and then completely blowing off this confidentiality.  I get it, he was scared and victimized but it never occurred to him that the people torturing him for info on her were going to bring that violence straight to her.  Yeah chivalry is dead and decomposed.

 

It's her fault for Norman being a murderous, nutcase.  All she has to do is go to CVS and pick up those magic "No More Crazy" pills that all parents worth a damn buy for their kids who are nutcases. How stupid of her to not know how easy it is to stop a killer from being a killer and that the end of crazy is just a pill away - hence the fact that there are no more killers or crazy people in the modern world - oh wait. 

 

It's her fault for not telling the sherrif of the town - the same guy who insisted Norman take a lie detector test (the day after his suicide attempt) to ease his own mind - the same guy who she is NOT sleeping with yet, btw - that her son murdered his father and that she took the insurance money and got out of dodge to protect him.  Silly woman!  He's a man.  He's cute.  He likes you and your taste in cars.  Bow to the power of the penis and sell your son down the river!  He asked nicely.

 

I mean, Norma is not at all a perfect person (nobody on this show is), and she seems completely oblivious the affect she has on all things male - including her son(s), but I don't know what is expected of her.  Trust people who aren't trustworthy with the fate of her special needs child around whom she's built her life?  Turn in this kid to get brutalized in the prison system?  Drag him on chains from one crappy therapist to another who will tell him that his thoughts are inappropriate but not how to stop having those thoughts?  Institutionalize him (which is my answer, btw)?  To someone like Norma that constitutes adandonment.  No she does what she can to shield and protect him.  Sometimes she breaks under the pressure of that.  I would too, tbh.

 

Romero may be sporting a boner for her because he thinks she is beautiful, but his intentions are not to protect her and Norman, they are to "do the right thing".  If that means taking Norman away forever, so be it. James acted like he wanted to help and protect and she confided in him and gave him access to Norman, but you see how that went down.  That right there pretty much sealed the deal that Norma will never again go to someone for help.  In her eyes, it is she and Norman against the world.  And from her vantage point, I'm inclined to agree with her.

 

The whole thing is so sad.  Neither of the Bates' are bad or malicious people but there is just no winning this.  I think the deep hole is symbolic of this situation.

I have a lot of sympathy for Norma but she has definitely made some large mistakes and I think what really sticks out for me is that she doesn't seem to really learn much from the mistakes that she's made.

 

Re: Norma telling James about Norman killing his father--

While I can appreciate that Norma felt the need to finally unload some of what she's been carrying around--she seriously thinks it's smart to drop the big reveal on her first "session" with this guy? (If we can even call if that since it was so unofficial.) I knew instantly that she was making a mistake. If she's hesitant to tell Romero, a man we've seen that she trusts and has a more established relationship with, it's odd to me that she would just throw caution to the wind and expect this guy to honor doctor/patient confidentiality especially when he's the type of person to sleep with his patient.

 

As far as exploring the idea of medication for Norman--I would think that she would be willing to try and see if something like talk therapy and medication would work. I personally don't think it will but I would think that Norma would at least be willing to test the waters on this front. Instead she tests the waters by forcing an impromptu session on Norman with the seemingly unethical James and then when James gets all freaked out Norma seems like she kind of shrugs her shoulders and moves on. She doesn't see this as yet another huge ass red flag and it's hard for me to understand why. 

 

As for James not giving more details--I agree that he's super wrong not only for not giving her more details about what he told Bob & co. but for not giving her a heads up on Norman's issues. To me that was basically a criminal example of withholding information from someone. You'll hear no arguments from me that this guy is an asshole. 

 

Re: not telling Romero the truth--

She'd already told James so it's crazy to me that she would trust James over Romero confidentiality be damned. Furthermore, Norma's a smart woman. She'd have to have known that somebody had told Romero something for him to ask her out of the blue about her husband with such seriousness. He came out there just for that purpose and she thinks she can/should blow this guy off and he won't know that she's full of shit? She knows him better than that by know.  

 

I think Norma should at least try taking Norman to one doctor and see what that doctor has to say before making it seem as though the situation is impossible to deal with as far as coming up with an official plan that will help Norman deal with all of his issues. 

 

I can understand why Norma fears having Norman committed but I feel like she hasn't explored enough options yet and only seems to think that her choices are send Norman away or basically pretend that everything is fine and I feel like there is a lot of middle ground that she hasn't necessarily turned over yet. 

 

Norma isn't even willing to get help for herself so I suppose it is indeed consistent with her character that she hasn't made more of an effort to get Norman help, but I still find it to be frustrating all the same because we know what's ultimately in store for her character. 

 

As far as Romero ultimately wanting to do the right thing--I agree that this is true of his character, but I think his definition of the right thing isn't always what law enforcement officially thinks the right thing is supposed to be. If he knew all of the details I think he would be willing to be supportive of Norma depending on what he was told. Romero definitely marches to the beat of his own drum and I don't know that he would necessarily be all for immediately turning Norman in just so that he can do the right thing. I can see why Norma would be hesitant but it makes less sense to me when she knows she just recently told James that info. 

Edited April 28, 2015 by Avaleigh

[Luckylyn]

It's her fault for not telling the sherrif of the town - the same guy who insisted Norman take a lie detector test (the day after his suicide attempt) to ease his own mind - the same guy who she is NOT sleeping with yet, btw - that her son murdered his father and that she took the insurance money and got out of dodge to protect him.  Silly woman!  He's a man.  He's cute.  He likes you and your taste in cars.  Bow to the power of the penis and sell your son down the river!  He asked nicely.

Romero really annoyed me with his sense of entitlement over Norma's secrets.   It's not like he's cataloging all his crimes for her.   Instead of testing her, he should just tell her what Bob told him.  His not warning her about what Bob knows is a bigger betrayal than her not telling him Norman's secrets.

 

I do think Norma has some culpability for any crimes Norman commits once she knew he had violent blackouts.  She knows he's dangerous and has chosen to cover for him.   She's made keeping him with her a priority over getting him the help he needs.  He's getting worse and not better.   He's not competent to make the right choices for himself anymore.  Maybe in the earlier seasons but not anymore.  I'm on the fence about Dylan's culpability.  He seems more realistic about Norman and has been trying to get through to Norma about it, but he hasn't pushed the issue as hard as he could.  As a brother, could he go over Norma's head to get Norman committed or as the mother does Norma have all the power over that? Still I don't blame Norma and Dylan for all Norman's actions.  He has major issues that I don't think are anyone's fault.   Still if he got help immediately there would have been less damage to others and Norman himself. 

 

I got a kick out of both Dylan and Emma protesting too much.   Dylan making a point that Emma's not his girlfriend while Emma insists she's not looking for romance while both of them are both have a thing for each other.  That phone conversation and the way the both couldn't stop smiling showed so much about how they really feel for each other.  I just want those two to have a happy ending but that won't happen with them both entangled in Norma and Norman's drama.  They need to seriously hightail it out of town to have any chance at happiness.  I'm wondering that since the gun run when horribly wrong if Dylan would end up selling the farm in order to get that money or come up with another criminal scheme.  Or will the fallout from the gun run cause Dylan major problems leading getting Emma's money to be impossible?  And how would Emma react if she knew what Dylan was up to on her behave?  Would she be touched or revolted with the hospital bribe?  Maybe a combination of both feelings?

[amensisterfriend]

I realize this makes me evil, but I kind of hope that Bradley winds up in the pit by the end of the next episode. Her character was one of this show's very few missteps for me, and I was really unexcited to see her back. 

 

ETA: If "shipping" Dylan and Emma is wrong, I don't want to be right :) 

Edited April 28, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[Timetoread]

I'm thinking Bradley with her excellent timing is going to wind up in the pit. I'm thinking Caleb's death will be something that isn't covered up and will be public knowledge.

 

It couldn't have been more obvious that the gun shit wasn't going to work out. At least Caleb had reservations. Dylan's clearly not thinking at all. How could Dylan not think they were being set up. I thought he was supposed to be the smart one!

 

 

I have a lot of sympathy for Norma but she has definitely made some large mistakes and I think what really sticks out for me is that she doesn't seem to really learn much from the mistake that she's made.

 

Re: Norma telling James about Norman killing his father--

While I can appreciate that Norma felt the need to finally unload some of what she's been carrying around--she seriously thinks it's smart to drop the big reveal on her first "session" with this guy? (If we can even call if that since it was so unofficial.) I knew instantly that she was making a mistake. If she's hesitant to tell Romero, a man we've seen that she trusts and has a more established relationship with, it's odd to me that she would just throw caution to the wind and expect this guy to honor doctor/patient confidentiality especially when he's the type of person to sleep with his patient.

 

As far as exploring the idea of medication for Norman--I would think that she would be willing to try and see if something like talk therapy and medication would work. I personally don't think it will but I would think that Norma would at least be willing to test the waters on this front. Instead she tests the waters by forcing an impromptu session on Norman with the seemingly unethical James and then when James gets all freaked out Norma seems like she kind of shrugs her shoulders and moves on. She doesn't see this as yet another huge ass red flag and it's hard for me to understand why. 

 

As for James not giving more details--I agree that he's super wrong not only for not giving her more details about what he told Bob & co. but for not giving her a heads up on Norman's issues. To me that was basically a criminal example of withholding information from someone. You'll here no arguments from me that this guy is a total asshole. 

 

Re: not telling Romero the truth--

She'd already told James so it's crazy to me that she would trust James over Romero confidentiality be damned. Furthermore, Norma's a smart woman. She'd have to known that somebody had told Romero something for him to ask her out of the blue about her husband with such seriousness. He came out there just for that purpose and she thinks she can/should blow this guy off and he won't know that she's full of shit? She knows him better than that by know.  

 

I think Norma should at least try taking Norman to one doctor and see what that doctor has to say before making it seem as though the situation is impossible to deal with as far as coming up with an official plan that will help Norman deal with all of his issues. 

 

I can understand why Norma fears having Norman committed but I feel like she hasn't explored enough options yet and only seems to think that her choices are send Norman away or basically pretend that everything is fine and I feel like there is a lot of middle ground that she hasn't necessarily turned over yet. 

 

Norma isn't even willing to get help for herself so I suppose it is indeed consistent with her character that she hasn't made more of an effort to get Norman help, but I still find it to be frustrating all the same because we know what's ultimately in store for her character. 

 

As far as Romero ultimately wanting to do the right thing--I agree that this is true of his character, but I think his definition of the right thing isn't always what law enforcement officially thinks the right thing is supposed to be. If he knew all of the details I think he would be willing to be supportive of Norma depending on what he was told. Romero definitely marches to the beat of his own drum and I don't know that he would necessarily be all for immediately turning Norman in just so that he can do the right thing. I can see why Norma would be hesitant but it makes less sense to me when she knows she just recently told James that info. 

 

Keep in mind that her telling James was on the night that she basically had a nervous breakdown because the boys forced the issue with Caleb and she had drunk herself into oblivion.  She didn't go to him to seek psychiatric care, she went to a man she knew liked her for "comfort" and started talking drunk talk, which equals the truth.  Kind of in the same vein as Romero telling her she was beautiful and her response "You're not going to be happy you said that later."  She's got so much bottled inside that when her defenses were down, something dropped out. Please take note of what she DIDN'T tell James.  She didn't purge, she let something slip.

 

Also Norma DID take Norman to a therapist but it became very apparent that she is the one living along the banks of the river Denial.  She knows he needs help but she doesn't trust the system to help.  Her go to is to keep secrets and run.  Makes sense considering her childhood and having her brother's baby and all.  She even lied to her own children for years about where she was from.

 

As for Romero, oh I get that he isn't Mr. Law.  That's why I put do the right thing in quotes.  It is the right thing according to Romero.  But I do not see him taking steps to help her keep Norman.  I see him trying to protect her FROM Norman and get him out of there as soon as possible.  He also wouldn't take too kindly to Caleb after finding out who he is to Dylan.  I see Romero loving her very much and protecting her, but ultimately becoming a strong force in turning her life upside down to the point of uncomfortableness.  Her MO is to hide and run from the truth.  His is to find the truth and kill it. 

Edited April 28, 2015 by Timetoread

[molshoop]

 

it's odd to me that she would just throw caution to the wind and expect this guy to honor doctor/patient confidentiality especially when he's the type of person to sleep with his patient.

 

    Unless I missed something, James is a therapist/psychologist and not a medical doctor. Not only is there no doctor/patient

confidentiality, he is obligated to report knowledge of any serious crime that has happened or that his client is planning to commit.

[Ohwell]

Even the dog knows Norman is crazy.  The only thing I was worried about was the dog getting hit by a car when it was running down the road.

[Aquarius]

Hmmm.  Your son, whom you know to be disturbed and capable of violence, comes to you and admits that he might be feeling some inappropriate attraction to you.

 

Your response?  Assure him that it is all completely normal, because although we're sexual animals inside, what makes us different is that we can roll around on the bed together and KNOW it doesn't mean anything.  We can make a choice.  We know that when our mother stares into our eyes as we are forehead-to-forehead and nose-to-nose, and assures us that it's ALWAYS BEEN US and WILL ALWAYS BE US, this is not at all sexual.  Or inappropriate.

 

Norma, Norma, Norma.  Way to make a bad situation worse. 

 

I missed some episodes from the first season.  But isn't this the first time we've seen Mother in a sexy dress, red lipstick and flirty hair?

[Primetimer]

Bob Paris moves on to the next phase of his plan: torture one of the men who's smitten with Norma, and use the results to alienate the other. As Norma struggles to contain the damage, she ends up alienating Norman. Uh oh.

Read the story

[Guest]

Even the dog knows Norman is crazy.  The only thing I was worried about was the dog getting hit by a car when it was running down the road.

 

My daughter was too until I reminded her that's how the dog died the first time.  She forgot the dog is all in Norman's mind.  

 

I really thought it was going to land in the pit and we'd have flashbacks to the Silence of the Lambs.  

[Nutjob]

Norma's codependency on Norman is too strong for her to get him help. If he gets therapy and becomes more "normal," he will pull away from her like most normal, adult men do when they come of age--that's why she keeps letting things go under the guise of "protecting" him. His admission gave her the perfect opening to get him help, and instead she told him his feelings are normal. Oh, Norma. Oy.

 

Not only did we all know the gun run would go sideways, but I'm pretty sure Chick did, as well... which is why he didn't do it himself. I just wonder if Caleb is going to make good on his promise. That said, I'm glad he went, crazy as he is, with Dylan, or Dylan would be dead right now and we'd never get to see him and Emma be cute together again.

[Spartan Girl]

Norma's codependency on Norman is too strong for her to get him help. If he gets therapy and becomes more "normal," he will pull away from her like most normal, adult men do when they come of age--that's why she keeps letting things go under the guise of "protecting" him. His admission gave her the perfect opening to get him help, and instead she told him his feelings are normal. Oh, Norma. Oy

And that's what really irked me when Norma broke down over how "hard" it was to be Norman's mother.  She willingly ignores all red flags about Norman until it's inconvenient for her, when it messes with her own love life.

 

Seeing Norman in the rocking chair a la Psycho gave me the creeps.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Spartan Girl

[Chicago Redshirt]

    Unless I missed something, James is a therapist/psychologist and not a medical doctor. Not only is there no doctor/patient

confidentiality, he is obligated to report knowledge of any serious crime that has happened or that his client is planning to commit.

There is still generally psychiatrist/patient confidentiality. It generally covers crimes that have been committed in the past, but has to give way to potential future threats.

[riverheightsnancy]

    Unless I missed something, James is a therapist/psychologist and not a medical doctor. Not only is there no doctor/patient

confidentiality, he is obligated to report knowledge of any serious crime that has happened or that his client is planning to commit.

Nope. There is confidentiality for clients/patients & licensed psychology professionals unless certain circumstances apply. A court order, third-party payer (i.e., an entity other than the client hired you to perform the duties with the client-the court,  a football team, etc...), or the person indicates that they may harm themselves or someone else. Those are the exceptions for breach of confidentiality. In this case, James could have legally breached confidentiality by going to an appropriate authority to report Norman's behavior after he confronted him and in relation to what Norma had told him. But since he already mentioned that he could lose his license when he slept with Norma, something tells me that he has skated the line before. He just never encountered a family as messed up as the Bates before.  He was naive and really deserves to lose his license for pursuing Norma to begin with. This is NOT how professionals drum up business. He is in breach of the multiple relationships (sex with client) standard at the very least. (as an aside: that is the #1 complaint to state licensing boards as it stands) 

[peacheslatour]

 

It would be a good end to it though if Bob ends up in that pit instead.

I think you just called it.  That seems to be the way of this show.  Everyone who has been a threat to Norma or Norman winds up dead.

[Timetoread]

Hmmm.  Your son, whom you know to be disturbed and capable of violence, comes to you and admits that he might be feeling some inappropriate attraction to you.

 

Your response?  Assure him that it is all completely normal, because although we're sexual animals inside, what makes us different is that we can roll around on the bed together and KNOW it doesn't mean anything.  We can make a choice.  We know that when our mother stares into our eyes as we are forehead-to-forehead and nose-to-nose, and assures us that it's ALWAYS BEEN US and WILL ALWAYS BE US, this is not at all sexual.  Or inappropriate.

 

Norma, Norma, Norma.  Way to make a bad situation worse. 

 

I missed some episodes from the first season.  But isn't this the first time we've seen Mother in a sexy dress, red lipstick and flirty hair?

 

Ok, I'm treading lightly here because it was very very uncomfortable, even to me.  I actually thought she handled it well.  If she had recoiled in horror and started dressing in moo-moos and locking doors behind her, Norman would react badly.  He doesn't respond to stress like normal people do.  I saw the shadow that ran across her face when he said it.  She gets it.  This is a woman who had her brother's baby.  She GETS it.  But keep in mind that the last time Norman decided that he was a bad, bad person he took a revolver into the woods to blow his brains out.  I think she felt that the best bet was to get him to dismiss the whole thing as a hormonal misfire.  That there is logic to having a moment of "in love" with the person who you love so much but that you can recognize that impulse as a mistake and dismiss it because good people dismiss such impulses.  I thought it was mildly genius.  But since the next "Mother" was a lipsticked trollop, I guess it didn't work.  I guess the reason I am such an apologist is because I don't think that there is ANYTHING that will work.  He is what he is and can't be talked, medicated, or fought out of it. He can only be stopped, but not fixed.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Timetoread

[Guest]

What's so great about how Norma reacts is there's an inkling of reasonableness to it, and then she takes it too far.  Then she takes it way too far and you're cringing.  

 

I think a young man with problems like Norman's in the real world could definitely be helped, though I imagine it'd be intensive and he'd probably need to be removed from Norma.  

[Aquarius]

Ok, I'm treading lightly here because it was very very uncomfortable, even to me.  I actually thought she handled it well.  If she had recoiled in horror and started dressing in moo-moos and locking doors behind her, Norman would react badly.  He doesn't respond to stress like normal people do.  I saw the shadow that ran across her face when he said it.  She gets it.  This is a woman who had her brother's baby.  She GETS it.  But keep in mind that the last time Norman decided that he was a bad, bad person he took a revolver into the woods to blow his brains out.  I think she felt that the best bet was to get him to dismiss the whole thing as a hormonal misfire.  That there is logic to having a moment of "in love" with the person who you love so much but that you can recognize that impulse as a mistake and dismiss it because good people dismiss such impulses.  I thought it was mildly genius.  But since the next "Mother" was a lipsticked trollop, I guess it didn't work.  I guess the reason I am such an apologist is because I don't think that there is ANYTHING that will work.  He is what he is and can't be talked, medicated, or fought out of it. He can only be stopped, but not fixed.

 

Indeed, she had to address it in a way that didn't horrify or stress him further.  But there's a huge area of gray between nearly making out with your son to "prove" there's nothing unnatural with him noticing you are woman, and desexualizing yourself with muumuus in response to it.

 

Also, the things Norma says to him are not the stuff of a healthy mother/son bond.  Norman isn't five any more.  He needs to understand that it WON'T always be the two of them - in fact, it never was.  Even when she was carrying him, there were other people in her life.  There's the unconditional love that a mother has for her child, and then there's the weird exclusive relationship language that Norma uses with Norman.  I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with a mate saying to me the things she says to Norman.  It's so . . . needy and co-dependent.

 

Do I think Norma "makes" Norman what he becomes?  Not completely, no.  But does she contribute to his illness?  Absolutely.  Does she do it on purpose?  No, to the extent that she can separate what Norman needs from what she needs.  It's the nature of her personality that she's not completely able to do that.  And given her history, I can understand how a lot of that happened.  But it doesn't excuse her or make her actions okay.  Especially when she's not all alone facing this - Dylan keeps telling her that they need to deal with Norman.  The last time he said it, a look crossed her face that was similar to the look you describe when Norman made his confession.  She gets it.  She's just avoiding it.  And that's helping no one.  Tragically, especially herself.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Aquarius

[designing1]

What's so great about how Norma reacts is there's an inkling of reasonableness to it, and then she takes it too far.  Then she takes it way too far and you're cringing.  

 

I think a young man with problems like Norman's in the real world could definitely be helped, though I imagine it'd be intensive and he'd probably need to be removed from Norma.  

 

 

Exactly. She handled Norman's inappropriate feelings well when all she was doing was talking to him. Then the cuddling and snuggling and you and me against the world started...

[Ohwell]

My daughter was too until I reminded her that's how the dog died the first time.  She forgot the dog is all in Norman's mind.

I haven't watched every episode, I've been a casual viewer, so I didn't realize that the dog was already dead.  Poor thing.

[Aquarius]

I haven't watched every episode, I've been a casual viewer, so I didn't realize that the dog was already dead.  Poor thing.

 

Yeah, it was very sad.  Juno was hit by a car when he crossed the road in response to Norman calling him, as I recall.  I think it was also the event that either started or sealed his interest in taxidermy, because he was going to keep the dog as his own before he was killed. 

[Ohwell]

Damn.

[JenE4]

I thought Bradley was just a hallicination--the hallicination of Juno just turned into Bradley. But I suppose she could have actually been there. Why would she be standing in the middle of the dark road, though?

 

My favorite line of the night goes to Chick. I wish I had written this down last night to quote it. But when Caleb was ranting and raving that if anything happens to Dylan, I'm going to come back here and kill you! And Chick just deadpans, I understand, in a "you gotta do what you gotta do" kind of way, it just killed me.

 

My other favorite delivery was Dylan during his phone call with Emma. Oh, my god, his cute little flirting smile was so freaking adorable! I just wanted to pinch his cheeks and cuddle him like a baby! And then with Norma's lingering semi-waiting for a kiss and then going for Romero's cheek, I was just in shipping utopia this episode...until Romero got pissed off about feeling used/manipulated/lied to.

 

I predict that Bob will end up dead and buried in his own pit. Someone is going to end up in it, no doubt. Just like when Caleb hid the gun under the truck, you knew someone was going to get shot with it. I cheered when he knelt down by the truck because I knew it was coming.

[Guest]

Yeah, we see the stuffed Juno in a lot of scenes.  I don't recall  if he's in the basement or Norman's bedroom or if he moves around.  (As in Norman takes him places in the house.  Heh.)  

[peacheslatour]

I believe Juno was a female dog.  She died just for knowing Norman, the first death he caused while not in a blackout fugue.  Poor Juno.  And then he stuffed her.  He might just as well have shouted "I don't know what normal is!"

 

"Hello Emma"

"Hello Dylan"

*swoon*  So sweet.

Edited April 28, 2015 by peacheslatour

[Kristen]

This is all I can think about after watching this episode:

[Solzhenknitsyn]

 

It's her fault for not telling the sherrif of the town - the same guy who insisted Norman take a lie detector test (the day after his suicide attempt) to ease his own mind - the same guy who she is NOT sleeping with yet, btw - that her son murdered his father and that she took the insurance money and got out of dodge to protect him.  Silly woman!  He's a man.  He's cute.  He likes you and your taste in cars.  Bow to the power of the penis and sell your son down the river!  He asked nicely.

 

I agree that his expectations were unreasonable. But I can buy them as the emotional flailing a tough dude who's mad-crushing on a woman and feeling vulnerable. Bob Parrish told Romero, in essence, that Norma was deceiving and using him. So Romero tried to prove to himself that she wasn't, that she would tell him the same secret that she'd told that turtleneck-wearing douchebag whom she'd slept with after knowing for like five minutes and who hadn't, like, gotten her out of a couple of serious jams and got her car back and everything.

 

Yeah, there was male entitlement going on. Yeah, it would have been better if Romero had bared his soul to Norma, told her that he loved her, and point-blank asked her if he had a chance with her. But (a) it's TV, and there'd be no dramatic arc if people solved their problems easily; and (b) love makes you do dumb things. :)

[Mick Lady]

I thought Bradley was just a hallicination--the hallicination of Juno just turned into Bradley. But I suppose she could have actually been there. Why would she be standing in the middle of the dark road, though?

 

My favorite line of the night goes to Chick. I wish I had written this down last night to quote it. But when Caleb was ranting and raving that if anything happens to Dylan, I'm going to come back here and kill you! And Chick just deadpans, I understand, in a "you gotta do what you gotta do" kind of way, it just killed me.

 

My other favorite delivery was Dylan during his phone call with Emma. Oh, my god, his cute little flirting smile was so freaking adorable! I just wanted to pinch his cheeks and cuddle him like a baby! And then with Norma's lingering semi-waiting for a kiss and then going for Romero's cheek, I was just in shipping utopia this episode...until Romero got pissed off about feeling used/manipulated/lied to.

 

I predict that Bob will end up dead and buried in his own pit. Someone is going to end up in it, no doubt. Just like when Caleb hid the gun under the truck, you knew someone was going to get shot with it. I cheered when he knelt down by the truck because I knew it was coming.

 

Hee! Chekhov's Pit!

[Timetoread]

Do I think Norma "makes" Norman what he becomes?  Not completely, no.  But does she contribute to his illness?  Absolutely.  Does she do it on purpose?  No, to the extent that she can separate what Norman needs from what she needs.  It's the nature of her personality that she's not completely able to do that.  And given her history, I can understand how a lot of that happened.  But it doesn't excuse her or make her actions okay.  Especially when she's not all alone facing this - Dylan keeps telling her that they need to deal with Norman.  The last time he said it, a look crossed her face that was similar to the look you describe when Norman made his confession.  She gets it.  She's just avoiding it.  And that's helping no one.  Tragically, especially herself.

 

Well said and I agree completely!

[Fable]

I wonder what, if anything, will be the significance of Bradley and Emma both preferring Dylan over Norman.  I doubt Bradley coming back at the time Emma started crushing on Dylan is a coincidence.  I would expect some fallout between the brothers over that. 

Edited April 28, 2015 by Fable

[Timetoread]

I agree that his expectations were unreasonable. But I can buy them as the emotional flailing a tough dude who's mad-crushing on a woman and feeling vulnerable. Bob Parrish told Romero, in essence, that Norma was deceiving and using him. So Romero tried to prove to himself that she wasn't, that she would tell him the same secret that she'd told that turtleneck-wearing douchebag whom she'd slept with after knowing for like five minutes and who hadn't, like, gotten her out of a couple of serious jams and got her car back and everything.

 

Yeah, there was male entitlement going on. Yeah, it would have been better if Romero had bared his soul to Norma, told her that he loved her, and point-blank asked her if he had a chance with her. But (a) it's TV, and there'd be no dramatic arc if people solved their problems easily; and (b) love makes you do dumb things. :)

 

True true!  I also think that Norma actually WOULD confide in him if she didn't feel that it would result in his IMMEDIATELY grabbing Norman.  She told James the Jerk after verifying that he wouldn't and COULDN'T tell what she had said.  And the first thing she said to Alex when she hatched her jump drive scheme was along the lines of "If I trust you with a confidence, am I talking to Alex my friend or Romero the cop?"  Not a quote but the gist.  She's seen him keep a big secret before but Norman is too much for her gamble with.

 

One other thing. Romero - if you feel this strongly about this woman, how about asking her out and telling her she's beautiful when you are sober.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Timetoread

[truthaboutluv]

Well, certainly didn't see Bradley showing up again. I have to say she was not missed. Wonder if she'll be the one who ends up in the obvious body dumping ground Bob placed on Norma's property. I also wonder if she'll be a speed bump in the clearly developing Dylan/Emma relationship as she was completely into Dylan before she left. Speaking of Dylan and Emma, the actors have really great chemistry.

 

They sold the flirty, cutesy nervousness and chemistry in their one scene and they weren't even physically in the same location. I wonder what Emma's note for him said but I also wonder too why she would write a note and leave it so out in the open. A halfway decent breeze could blow that thing away. I'm also glad we finally got a definitive end to her and Norman's brief, barely existent relationship. 

 

So Chick not surprisingly set up Dylan and Caleb. It will be interesting to see what happens between them when they get back. I have a feeling Caleb will be the one who ends up killing him. Speaking of Caleb, I'm really tired of him bringing up and making like he's going to leave and clearly not doing so. I feel like it's a manipulative tactic to get Dylan to beg him to stay. 

 

Okay, I totally cracked up when the therapist guy was like "screw this, I'm getting the hell out of dodge." Take this as a lesson folks - if you see a seemingly damaged woman, don't see it as something attractive and appealing because you can "save her". Because you might end up in a situation where she has a batshit crazy son and keeps getting herself connected to dangerous criminals. 

 

Well it sucks that Romero and Norma was just moving along and this happened. Thing is, as frustrating as it may be, I kind of can't fully blame Norma for her choice and action. The fact is, in Norma's mind she's protecting her kid and let's face it, many people do even crazier things to protect their children, even some who are just plain evil. And in Norma's eyes, Norman isn't evil. She sees him as a sick boy who has these black outs and does things he doesn't remember or can control and he killed his father while protecting her. So I can't completely blame her for not wanting to tell Romero the truth because she probably thinks they'll lock him up like a common criminal. 

Edited April 28, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[maczero]

Romero really annoyed me with his sense of entitlement over Norma's secrets.   It's not like he's cataloging all his crimes for her.   Instead of testing her, he should just tell her what Bob told him.  His not warning her about what Bob knows is a bigger betrayal than her not telling him Norman's secrets.

No but he has stuck his neck out for her on numerous occasions.  The latest resulted in him being shot.  I'd be more than a little upset with someone who I had taken a bullet for was continuing to lie to my face.

As for not filling in Norma in on what Bob knows, I think that's completely in character for Romero.  If you burn Romero, at best he won't lift a finger to help you.  At worst, he'll personally put a bullet in you.

 

I never cared for the therapist but I do applaud his getting the fuck out of dodge.  I wish more tv characters displayed this level of common sense.

 

That's a pretty deep pit.  Even if it's not feasible as a swimming pool, still may come in handy considering the number of people who have died (or will die) on Norma's property.

 

Speaking of death and the Bates home, I got a chuckle thinking about Norma's lovely family dinner from last week.  Nearly everyone at the table had at least one kill under their belt.  Hell, given this town I wouldn't be surprised if Emma's beaten someone to death with that oxygen tank.

Edited April 29, 2015 by maczero