S01.E05: Girl Code

[ElectricBoogaloo]

After lending Kelsey a hand in the bathroom, Liza joins Kelsey's inner circle and neglects Maggie at the worst possible time. Diana's excited by the arrival of Empirical's handsome and potentially soon-to-be-divorced publisher.

[tennisgurl]

This is the first episode I have ever seen of this show, and so far, I like it! I have heard some good things, so I decided to give it a watch, and I`m glad I did. Its cool seeing Hilary Duff again, and I loved Sutton Foster in the late, lamented Bunheads, so I was happy to see her on my screen. 

 

As an actual Instagramming, Tweeting, hipster millennial 20 something, it makes me kind of self conscious about myself at times. It makes me really think about the amount of hashtags I use on any given day, although I will say I prefer to talk to people in real life, not on my phone. 20 somethings seem to be everyone`s favorite punch line, so I liked how they don't seem to be portrayed as all that awful in this show. Although, the constant starring at your phone, and going through, like, 30 topics a minute? All real. 

 

When I have some time, I think I`ll catch up on Hulu. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Sorry to all my female friends, but if your menstrual cup gets stuck I am not going to remove it for you. For the record, they ARE really awesome. I have never heard of someone having trouble taking one out though. Usually the problems are with getting Diva Cups inserted properly (hence the multiple websites where people show every possible way to fold them).

 

It was nice to see some focus on Maggie in a role other than Liza's cheerleader. I was totally fine with Liza leaving the gallery with Kelsey because Maggie said she wanted to stay behind to talk to the gallery owner. But what was not cool was the fact that later she not only totally ignored all of Maggie's phone calls but never bothered to call her back or even text her once. But once she got home, she was replying to Kelsey's texts right away. Not cool, Liza!

[sinkwriter]

They could have made Kelsey a complete jerk, especially when she and her friends couldn't seem to conceive of having a friend who isn't exactly their own age (which to me is just bizarre, I've always had friends in a variety of ages). But what I liked was how Kelsey and her friends rallied to help Maggie with a new gallery after Liza verbalized that Maggie wasn't just a "roommate from Craigslist" but actually one of her very best friends who has been a great support in her life. I'm glad the writers didn't have Kelsey be all, "Okay then, whatever..." Instead she said, "Okay, a friend of yours is a friend of mine, I can help!"

 

That was nice, especially after the pain in the ass way Kelsey behaved in the previous episode, with the expecting Liza to stop her from drinking and then giving her crap for not doing a good enough job of it.

[MaryMitch]

Sorry to all my female friends, but if your menstrual cup gets stuck I am not going to remove it for you. For the record, they ARE really awesome. I have never heard of someone having trouble taking one out though. Usually the problems are with getting Diva Cups inserted properly (hence the multiple websites where people show every possible way to fold them).

I was sorry they even brought this up, because (a) no one want to hear that, and (b) there's no way that could happen, either with a diva cup or half a tampon.

[Julia]

Yeah, without scaring the horses, it seems a little odd that Liza is a militantly sex-positive woman in her twenties and she hasn't figured out her cervix yet.

[Primetimer]

Actually, just one story problem. It's definitely up the wazoo, though.

Read the story

[MoreCoffeePlease]

Darren Star, how many Sex and the City plot lines will you recycle in Younger?  Didn't Samantha have something stuck, and asked Carrie to take it out?

 

And WHAT, in the name of heaven, is Hollywood's obsession with female pubic hair and waxing?  I swear, every sitcom seems to have to include at least one joke per episode on waxing.  Ha ha.  It is so funny.  (Are the shows secretly sponsored by the waxing industry?)

 

Anyway, still really enjoyed it.  Totally get the fact that as you get older, you cannot party like you did in your twenties and function well the next day at work.

 

Oooh, the guy meeting with Liza's boss has an eye for Liza.  Another, more age-appropriate love interest, perhaps?  I think Liza and her boss could be great friends if the circumstances were different. 

[sinkwriter]

 

Darren Star, how many Sex and the City plot lines will you recycle in Younger?  Didn't Samantha have something stuck, and asked Carrie to take it out?

 

The other way around. It was Carrie who asked Samantha for help. (And afterward Samantha said Carrie owed her dinner and a manicure. LOL.)

[allonsyalice]

It was her diaphragm, and that makes lizas quip funnier. (but uh do people not use diaphragms anymore?)

This show is nice because its ridiculous and easy to watch with a wine hangover. and I'm glad this ep was about the girls and not Josh. (I love Josh, but I love fostering friendships between girl friends way way more than his tattooed torso.) Of course Liza is gonna have trouble adjusting to her 26 life and keeping her 40 life, and i liked Maggie had a storyline this week. Honestly, my bias for miss foster aside, I really love this show. It makes me laugh and i'm not look for anything else. (also sometimes it makes me sigh out of frustration.)

[dubbel zout]

I loved Liza gargling one of her shots. Hee. 

 

I wish they weren't making Diana so desperately man-hungry. Miriam Shor is killing it, but I really wanted her character to go in a different direction. Sigh.

[rabidchipmnk]

I am going to have to nitpick here: 1) there's no way your cup could ever get stuck; 2) if somehow it DID get stuck: a) relax, like literally, b) maybe wait a bit (because um... it's easier to take out if it's not empty), because anyway c) there is absolutely no situation (other than it leaking, in which case it should come out super easy) in which the cup removal couldn't wait until the end of the business day when you're in the privacy of your own bathroom. Trust me, that thing can stay in longer than the official time on the package, and you totally won't die or get TSS or anything. ...Not that I've ever forgotten it was in there or anything... Oh, also, 3) there are, um... suctional forces involved there, so having someone else try to get it out sounds like a TERRIBLE idea.

And now back to your regularly-scheduled not-TMI-on-female-anatomy thread!

[jbrecken]

I believe Kelsey was commenting on her depth, not her width.

[slowpoked]

 I'm glad the writers didn't have Kelsey be all, "Okay then, whatever..." Instead she said, "Okay, a friend of yours is a friend of mine, I can help!"

 

 

Yeah, that was a nice touch. There's some depth to Kelsey's character and she's not entirely stupid and cartoonish. Plus I like Hilary Duff in the role so far, so I hope this character gets written well as the series goes.

[Kat]

I'm surprised how much I've grown to love this show over the past few weeks since it's premiere. Even the age/time period inconsistencies that I've pedantically complained about - e.g. Liza's supposedly only "40" but that doesn't match with her daughter's age/when she supposedly gave birth, how long she's been out of the workforce or the age she was when she saw Nirvana - I've now let go and just enjoy the show for what it is.

 

 

But even if my very best friend in the whole world who is closer to me than a sister, asked me to help her remove a menstrual cup, I would gladly take her to an urgent care center but that's it.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Kat

[Psychobunny]

For those who say that there is no way the cup could get stuck-I suggest google.  Try reading this poor girl's story:

http://menstrual-cups.livejournal.com/3312416.html

[dubbel zout]

Boo to Liza throwing away three perfectly good pieces of toast. Such a waste.

[luna1122]

Ugh. That sex in the city episode nearly scarred me for life years ago, and of course that was the first thing I thought of. I love my two besties more than almost anything, but there is not one single way in hell I'm goin'' in and helping dislodge something from their bajingo. Plus, for cripes sake, the vagina is not an infinite portal. Just reach up there and get the damn thing yourself.

This show enrages me on several levels---women over 40 are evidently technology-illiterate, culturally ignorant and emotionally stunted. And hairy. And tho sutton foster is lanky and lovely, no way in hell could she pass for 26, in any light.

Still, it's often charming, often funny and usually entertaining. I keep watching anyway.

Edited April 22, 2015 by luna1122

[Ms Blue Jay]

Thank you for pointing out that Darren Star recycled the storyline from Sex and the City!  There have to be legions of fans out there like me, who watch the series again and again.  How could we possibly forget?  I really love the show Curb Your Enthusiasm but Larry David recycles bit after bit from Seinfeld.  Gee, do you not realize it's the same fans?

 

I need to echo allonsyalice's post because I specifically wanted to post about this.  This episode proved that the love interest is not necessary.  Didn't miss him at all.  Not every goddamn piece of pop culture about a woman needs a love interest for me to be interested.  It was great that the entire episode was just women supporting each other.  It is so rare that you get to see pop culture be purely about women and their friendships and this was a nice slice until the love interest comes back.  

[bilgistic]

I haven't yet watched this episode, but I had to speak up. *I* had a Diva Cup stuck the first and only time I used it. I had to go to the doctor to get it removed, and she had to use the little forceps when she couldn't pry it out manually. I first called a recently split-from ex-boyfriend, but he couldn't come over (it was before work), so I had to go to the doctor.

I was in my early-to-mid-30s at the time and used the larger size 2 because the Diva Cup literature insists you purchase size 2 after age 29 even if you haven't had children. It was my mistake to agree with it. I KNEW I needed the smaller size 1 because of my anatomy. If you are a grown woman, you certainly know yourself better than anyone else does.

Knowledge is power--I'm happy to answer any questions, but private messaging might be more appropriate given the subject matter and so as not to derail the thread.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I tried the DivaCup, but the operative word is tried. I just couldn't get the damn thing inserted correctly so I went back to using Instead SoftCups (which have a totally different shape and design - for the record, mine have never gotten stuck and they're so easy that my high school sister was able to use one on her first try).

 

The reason I had issues with Kelsey's faux DivaCup getting stuck is that she made it sound like she used it regularly so it seemed odd that it would suddenly get stuck. The very few stories I have heard about women's DivaCups getting stuck were similar to yours, bilgistic, as they were first time users.

 

 

 

I'm glad the writers didn't have Kelsey be all, "Okay then, whatever..." Instead she said, "Okay, a friend of yours is a friend of mine, I can help!"

As much as I loathe when people cite the girl code or anything similar (because do you have to give it a cutesy name as opposed to calling it what it really is, which is "not being an asshole" or "being a friend"?), I liked that Kelsey immediately stopped mocking Maggie as soon as Liza said that she was more than her roommate and then offered to help.

Edited April 23, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Julia]

I still had a problem with it. The two of them were giggling about wanting to be euthanized before middle age, and Kelsey has more than once speechified about how hopeless/pathetic/jealous middle-aged women are. It's also not the first time Kelsey's been dismissive about Maggie for no more reason than that she's older, and she was more than ready with the schadenfreude when she heard Maggie was in trouble until Liza reframed it as her own problem.

Which, to me, means that Kelsey and her trendy little friend are going to that special hell Taylor Swift talked about as much as Liza's boss is.* Women don't stop or start being women at forty.

*Where, JMO, they will run into Taylor Swift.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Julia

[methodwriter85]

 

It makes me really think about the amount of hashtags I use on any given day, although I will say I prefer to talk to people in real life, not on my phone. 20 somethings seem to be everyone`s favorite punch line, so I liked how they don't seem to be portrayed as all that awful in this show. Although, the constant starring at your phone, and going through, like, 30 topics a minute? All real.

 

Yeah. My phone has been my crutch for many years now.

 

I also loved them bringing up the Millennial innovation of pop-ups. See, we're not all bad, folks!

 

Maggie's art idea was pretty cool. I liked it a lot. If she tried making them into growlers that you can take to get filled up with beer instead, I can totally see hipsters getting into that.

 

I also loved her quip about Liza's Tiger Beat cover boyfriend. Nico Tortorella has such a babyface, and he tries SO hard to play that down with the facial hair and tattoos. He just recently moved on from teen roles.

Edited April 23, 2015 by methodwriter85

[apgold]

 

I also loved her quip about Liza's Tiger Beat cover boyfriend. Nico Tortorella has such a babyface, and he tries SO hard to play that down with the facial hair and tattoos. He just recently moved on from teen roles.

 

That made me lol - is Tiger Beat even still around (someone once referred to it as Playgirl for pre-teens)?  Good lord is he pretty and I suppose he must be shirtless in at least one scene per episode (which is all we got this time).

 

Diana is way too open about her 40 something neuroses with Liza (unaware that she understands more than she thinks she does).  I do like how Liza deals with her brand of crazy and just accepts it.

 

I could've done w/o the grossness of the Goddess/Diva cup thing, but it was a plot device to get Liza into Kelsey's inner circle.

 

I love Debi Mazar in this (she was underused in Entourage) and hope her role continues to grow.

[Tara Ariano]

I could've done w/o the grossness of the Goddess/Diva cup thing, but it was a plot device to get Liza into Kelsey's inner circle.

 

AS IT WERE.

[sinkwriter]

 

AS IT WERE.

 

It took me a second to absorb your meaning, Tara, and then... HAHAHAHAHAHAA. So bad. You are so bad.

[Silly Angel]

dubbel zout

 

I wish they weren't making Diana so desperately man-hungry. Miriam Shor is killing it, but I really wanted her character to go in a different direction. Sigh.

I get that, but I think the character is a useful stand-in for what Liza could have been, for her worst fears. She's trading being taken seriously, professional power, Judith Leiber money and other entitlements of the older businesswoman for gargle-shots, girlfriends, Tiger Beat and the perks of being young.

 

That said, I agree that the show sets up a solid divide between old/grumpy/unfulfilled/desperate and young/carefree/hottie-banging, and it's not healthy. I'd like to see those two worlds intersect and soften their boundaries a bit. It has a little: the girl crew helping Debi Mazar with her pop-up (because we old ladies have never HEARD of such a thing) and Liza spewing her knowledge of African literature all over that hot grownup fellow (because young folk only read Twilighty books and Stephen King, on their e-readers, presumably. Whatever, show). I'll keep watching and hope for the best.

[Julia]

I get that, but I think the character is a useful stand-in for what Liza could have been, for her worst fears. She's trading being taken seriously, professional power, Judith Leiber money and other entitlements of the older businesswoman for gargle-shots, girlfriends, Tiger Beat and the perks of being young.

 

I thought she traded that for being married and staying at home with her daughter. Of course, she also traded gargle-shots, girlfriends, Tiger Beat and the perks of being young for being married and staying home with her daughter. Kelsey and Diana could almost be both ends of her road not taken.

 

That said, I agree that the show sets up a solid divide between old/grumpy/unfulfilled/desperate and young/carefree/hottie-banging, and it's not healthy. I'd like to see those two worlds intersect and soften their boundaries a bit. It has a little: the girl crew helping Debi Mazar with her pop-up (because we old ladies have never HEARD of such a thing) and Liza spewing her knowledge of African literature all over that hot grownup fellow (because young folk only read Twilighty books and Stephen King, on their e-readers, presumably. Whatever, show). I'll keep watching and hope for the best.

Darren Star was never a subtle writer.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Julia

[dubbel zout]

Kelsey and Diana could almost be both ends of her road not taken.

 

That's fine, and I think that's what those two kind of are. But I object to Diana being so pathetically desperate for a man. I hate that it's such a defining characteristic for her. You never see single men that age so grasping for a relationship. Not that their clichés are much better, but they aren't so singleminded about being partnered.

[bilgistic]

Straight males in American culture aren't ingrained to be desperate for a mate like straight females are.

[Julia]

Straight males in American culture aren't ingrained to be desperate for a mate like straight females are.

I think straight women and straight men might be groups too diverse to make categorical statements about. Even if we are buying the sitcom sociology, though, straight males in popular culture are good and desperate for mates. They're just not as cartoonishly eager to marry them.

[Snarklepuss]

This show enrages me on several levels---women over 40 are evidently technology-illiterate, culturally ignorant and emotionally stunted. And hairy. And tho sutton foster is lanky and lovely, no way in hell could she pass for 26, in any light.

Still, it's often charming, often funny and usually entertaining. I keep watching anyway.

 

Yeah, I find myself enraged and insulted every week and yet I still watch it.  When I was 40 I looked and felt younger than Sutton Foster and never for one minute felt technologically and culturally challenged next to my 20 something friends.  Is that what it's coming down to today that even 40 year old women feel like dinosaurs?  To me, Sex and the City felt empowering.  This show is depressing.  I am 56 and even at my age I don't want to be told I am out of it for being older.  In my own mind I am much younger.  It's what you feel, anyway.  This character acts and feels older than I do.  It's depressing.

[methodwriter85]

That made me lol - is Tiger Beat even still around (someone once referred to it as Playgirl for pre-teens)?  Good lord is he pretty and I suppose he must be shirtless in at least one scene per episode (which is all we got this time).

 

Yep, it's still going. Funny that so many magazines are gone, but this one is still around...I guess you can never go out of style when you're a source for cute pull-out posters of young girls' (and some guys) favorite dream boats.

 

*sigh* Ross Lynch is dreamy. (Well, hey, he's 19 so I can say that now!)

 

As for Josh, I've had a thing for Nico Tortorella ever since he was on the short-lived show the Beautiful Life back in '09. He then appeared in Scream 4, then the Following, now this. He just has this very memorable face with some interesting quirks to it that keeps him from being just another cookie-cutter pretty boy. Because of said Baby Face, he was doing teen roles up until the past couple of years. I'm definitely rooting for the guy.

Edited April 26, 2015 by methodwriter85

[DangerousMinds]

Yeah, I find myself enraged and insulted every week and yet I still watch it.  When I was 40 I looked and felt younger than Sutton Foster and never for one minute felt technologically and culturally challenged next to my 20 something friends.  Is that what it's coming down to today that even 40 year old women feel like dinosaurs?  To me, Sex and the City felt empowering.  This show is depressing.  I am 56 and even at my age I don't want to be told I am out of it for being older.  In my own mind I am much younger.  It's what you feel, anyway.  This character acts and feels older than I do.  It's depressing.

Agree. 20 years ago (when I was in my 20's), we weren't mean-spirited and catty toward the middle-aged at all. I honestly was so involved in my own life that I didn't really give them a second thought. I certainly worked with older people in a variety of settings and has friendships with them. Talk of "fupas" and Ensure (even if joking) was not a "thing." We didn't look down on 40-something women or even think of accusing them of lying about their ages. I saw them more as mentors that could teach me about life and work. It's a real turnoff to me that this show emphasizes the negative so much, and makes the younger women seem so shallow and petty.

[Shermie]

I'm torn on this age divide thing. While I think this show is ridiculous with Liza not getting any pop culture references or being tech-slow, I do know lots of people (of all ages) who have no idea who Lena Dunham is, who aren't on twitter, etc. The pop culture ignorance I encounter is mind boggling to me, but I enjoy pop culture.

I'm also kind of disappointed that my 50-ish women friends can spend an evening talking about their aches and pains and that one even drinks hot water! I'm thinking, my mother didn't do that until she was 70, why are you aging yourself?

As for the diva cup problem, if the friend can reach in and get it, why couldn't Kelsey just do that herself! I thought the same in the SATC ep, if Carrie can retrieve the diaphragm, why can't Sam just get it?

[bilgistic]

It's all about the angle from which you're coming at the thing, and how much leverage you can give it. My arms aren't but yea long, so removing the cup was impossible--I couldn't get a grip with my fingers. Turns out, neither could the gyno because there's a vacuum force in there stronger than my Hoover upright. Thank heavens for forceps.

[sinkwriter]

LOL. Bilgistic, I was trying to think of a delicate way to explain it, so thank you for saying it for me. Heeeeee. I've never had to go to my doctor, thank goodness, but there have been times when I've had to contort into awkward positions to get a stubborn tampon out.

 

Sorry to be gross!   :D

[dubbel zout]

Ah, womanhood.

[Shermie]

Well, I get needing to go to a doc for forceps removal if it's in too deep or stuck by vacuum, but my point was that in both cases one woman asked another woman to get it out. I assume Liza didn't have forceps in her purse, so she just used her hand, which I think Kelsey could have just as easily done herself (same with Samantha and Carrie in SATC). It's not like the woman in distress was out of shape or injured or obese or something else to impede her reach. It just seems like a contrived way to be all "ooo, how sisterhoody!"

[Snarklepuss]

What about just going to the doctor to have the cup removed?  I understand the problem - A long time ago I had to have a tampon removed by a doctor because I couldn't get it out.  Yikes, I'm no prude but I would much rather wait for the doctor to do it.  Not fond of the idea of a friend putting their hand up my hooch.

[bilgistic]

Hooch!

[Snarklepuss]

LOL, sorry, I meant coochie!

[Hanahope]

 

 

   I get that, but I think the character is a useful stand-in for what Liza could have been, for her worst fears. She's trading being taken seriously, professional power, Judith Leiber money and other entitlements of the older businesswoman for gargle-shots, girlfriends, Tiger Beat and the perks of being young.

 

I thought she traded that for being married and staying at home with her daughter. Of course, she also traded gargle-shots, girlfriends, Tiger Beat and the perks of being young for being married and staying home with her daughter. Kelsey and Diana could almost be both ends of her road not taken.

 

 

I thought she traded in being an unemployed older woman returning to the profession after taking two decades off to be a mother for being an employed 'younger' woman.

[Gothish520]

On 4/24/2015 at 3:38 PM, bilgistic said:

Straight males in American culture aren't ingrained to be desperate for a mate like straight females are.

On 4/24/2015 at 4:01 PM, Julia said:

I think straight women and straight men might be groups too diverse to make categorical statements about. Even if we are buying the sitcom sociology, though, straight males in popular culture are good and desperate for mates. They're just not as cartoonishly eager to marry them.

Straight males are desperate for sex. Period.