The DC Extended Universe: To Thanagar and Beyond!

[starri]

I do not care for him.

[BetterButter]

‘Shazam!’ Finds a Villain in Mark Strong

[HunterHunted]

19 minutes ago, BetterButter said:

‘Shazam!’ Finds a Villain in Mark Strong

This sounds even more confused. The villain in Shazam is Doctor Sivana? Black Adam won't even appear in Shazam? Are we going to have an entire stand alone Black Adam film in hopes that the DCEU isn't so much of a mess that they can later introduce Black Adam into the present continuity only for him to do a sudden heel turn? Ugh. I can see why they ended up casting Levi. The odds of the DCEU making it long enough to have a Captain Marvel vs Black Adam battle royal are not great so why bother casting an actor who had any hopes of getting big enough to not be dwarfed by the Rock. There is so little chance of there being a Shazam 2.

That said, Strong was a fantastic Sinestro. I'm sure he'll be a perfectly fine Doctor Sivana.

[MarkHB]

Yeah, from what I've read in various places they've planned out a Shazam - Black Adam trilogy.  The first one sets up Captain Marvel, the second will be the Rock as Black Adam getting the powers and turning anti-hero with them (possibly ancient-times flashback prequel film), and the third will be the two of them meeting (and Superman possibly getting into the mix).  I don't see these movies NOT getting made, just because WB isn't going to let go of The Rock.

So far as keeping the DCEU going goes, the biggest issue I see is Ratner's withdrawal, just because RatPac is their "producing partner" (aka the investment syndicate) and I am not sure where his exit leaves things.  But for the films themselves, Justice League will finish establishing the base, they basically said they aren't going to concentrate on a continuing storyline (there's no Infinity War coming), so from here on out it's using the base universe to tell whatever stories they want.  Shazam is supposed to start filming in February, Suicide Squad 2 and Wonder Woman 2 are still slated to start next year, and Joss Whedon is still looking at the Batgirl movie after his JL duties are complete.

[starri]

6 hours ago, MarkHB said:

Yeah, from what I've read in various places they've planned out a Shazam - Black Adam trilogy

DC really needs to pump the brakes.  They should probably make sure that audiences are going to be receptive to Shazam in the first place before planning world domination.

And no shade on the Rock, a charismatic screen presence and a likable guy, but we've already seen him do one anti-hero spinoff and that was...not good.

[darkestboy]

I really don't see the need for movies on Black Adam, Deadshot or Deathstroke and along with the Joker/Harley Quinn movie that's been touted, none of them seem necessary to me.

They're better off having Black Adam in Shazam and leaving it there.

[Bruinsfan]

If DC's hit/miss ratio continues as it's been going so far, I expect Black Adam to be repurposed into a Superman villain when Shazam crashes and burns. The Rock and Henry Cavill seemed really chummy last year.

[starri]

I have to wonder if they're going to continue with anything that's not Wonder Woman 2 if Justice League isn't the size hit that it needs to be.  I know Aquaman's pretty much in the can, but beyond that, is anything actually scheduled to begin shooting?

[stealinghome]

1 hour ago, starri said:

I have to wonder if they're going to continue with anything that's not Wonder Woman 2 if Justice League isn't the size hit that it needs to be.  I know Aquaman's pretty much in the can, but beyond that, is anything actually scheduled to begin shooting?

That's a good question. They have been so resistant to giving much detail about the DCEU that I actually have wondered if they are hedging their bets and are waiting to see what in JL plays favorably (and what goes over like a lead balloon) before setting the rest of the schedule aside from WW2.

[Joe]

2 hours ago, starri said:

I have to wonder if they're going to continue with anything that's not Wonder Woman 2 if Justice League isn't the size hit that it needs to be.  I know Aquaman's pretty much in the can, but beyond that, is anything actually scheduled to begin shooting?

There's been a lot of speculation on IO9 about that being the reason they're holding off on the Flash movie.

[Dee]

I'm wondering if/when Black Panther is a huge hit will Cyborg get a solo film.

[MarkHB]

On 11/5/2017 at 9:20 PM, starri said:

I have to wonder if they're going to continue with anything that's not Wonder Woman 2 if Justice League isn't the size hit that it needs to be.  I know Aquaman's pretty much in the can, but beyond that, is anything actually scheduled to begin shooting?

Shazam is scheduled to begin shooting in the new year, SS2 is supposedly up soon as well.

Speaking of Shazam, Angel Asher, of Disney's "Andi Mack", will be playing Billy Batson.

Beyond that, I'll add this, from the Wall Street Journal article that popped last night (via Batman-News):

Quote

2018 will be a “reset year”, with a focus on more director driven visions for individual superhero movies, rather than the pressure of making things fit into one big story over the course of several movies.

“We don’t want to limit the creativity filmmakers can bring to the table by saying these characters have to come in a particular order and all fit into the same universe,” said Warner Bros. president Toby Emmerich.

Emmerich said that Warner Bros. is working on a “super robust slate” of DC movies, including Batgirl, a solo Batman movie, Green Lantern Corps, and two different takes on the Joker. He also said that a solo Flash movie is a priority for the company.

The other issue that comes to mind is the Brett Ratner issue.  His RatPac is the group funding all of this, so I'm not sure what happens with that.  (Note: this is NOT a defense of Ratner in any way, I'm just wondering about the financial fallout of his actions.)

[darkestboy]

2018 will also only see Aquaman as the release for the year while Shazam and Wonder Woman 2 will go into production. Also either Suicide Squad 2 or The Batman. I know which one I think they should have between Shazam and Wonder Woman 2 though, The Batman of course. 

[starri]

Does The Batman even have a script?  Hell, at the rate things are falling apart for Affleck, it may not even have a star.

I know they've got the "director-focused" line, but that doesn't really mean anything.  MoS and BvS were also "director-focused" ad we saw how that turned out.  I just don't know if they're focusing on the right things.  I don't have a problem with Jason Mamoa's casting, but they seem to be using the manpain version of Aquaman we were given in the late 90s, and I can't imagine anyone being in a big hurry to revisit that.  And I really don't know if Shazam has enough appeal to a wide audience.  Marvel really didn't start with their lesser-known characters until after the MCU was well-established.

[starri]

Gal is out for WW2 unless Brett Ratner is shown the door.  Good for her.

[Joe]

A bold move, one I think and hope works. There are a thousand producers in Hollywood, surely there are a few that aren't tainted and want to step up.

[raven]

1 hour ago, starri said:

Gal is out for WW2 unless Brett Ratner is shown the door.  Good for her.

WW2 needs her but not him.  Warner Bros should toss him. 

[MarkHB]

14 hours ago, raven said:

Warner Bros should toss him. 

They're trying.   And it's not so much that he's actually producing the movies, but the mysterious RatPac (that's a really cool logo) is essentially the investment firm putting together funding deals for their movies.  And there's a contract.

[JustaPerson]

A recap of everything leading up to JL.

Edited November 12, 2017 by JustaPerson

[BetterButter]

Flashpoint Reportedly Includes Affleck’s Batman; Solo Film Will Not

[starri]

That's assuming the Flashpoint movie even happens.

I just think it's a dumb idea to try and reboot stuff.  Just fix what's broken and keep moving forward.  Marvel didn't feel the need to explain why War Machine suddenly looked like Don Cheadle, or how Edward Norton morphed into Mark Ruffalo.

[Trini]

8 hours ago, starri said:

That's assuming the Flashpoint movie even happens.

Ugh - I really want a Flash movie, but not that story. Especially not for his first solo film.

[Jediknight]

5 hours ago, Trini said:

Ugh - I really want a Flash movie, but not that story. Especially not for his first solo film.

Yeah, to do that story justice, you've gotta have an established good universe first.  The hell of that story, is pretty much what Snyder wants in regular movies.  That should be maybe his 4th movie.

Edited December 10, 2017 by Jediknight

[cambridgeguy]

12 hours ago, Jediknight said:

Yeah, to do that story justice, you've gotta have an established good universe first.  The hell of that story, is pretty much what Snyder wants in regular movies.  That should be maybe his 4th movie.

True, but the DCEU is all about hitting fast forward and cramming in plot points in an effort to catch up to marvel. 

Article defending Snyder

Of course, the bottom line is Snyder has become the favorite punching bag for why these movies aren't connecting so I'd be stunned if he has an active role in any DCEU movie moving forward unless he has an ironclad contract with a buyout so large it's impossible for WB to pay.

[stealinghome]

tbh I'd say that Snyder shouldn't have a bigger role with the movies going forward. I actually agree with that article to some degree--I do think that the real culprits behind the DCEU being a mess are the WB executives who have mishandled the franchise pretty much since Day 1. However, part of that mishandling included doubling and tripling down on Snyder when a lot of the most criticized/problematic elements of Man of Steel bear his fingerprints. (The fact that he argued with Chris Nolan to let Superman kill Zod, which I didn't know prior to this, is pretty telling.) Man of Steel shows that Snyder maybe could have been a decent executor of someone else's vision, but the parts of Man of Steel that got most criticized were parts that bore all of Snyder's hallmarks, and the WB ignored that and chose to give him more, not less, creative control. Snyder is limited, but the WB is at fault for giving him a job he wasn't equipped to handle; at the same time, that doesn't mean Snyder shouldn't be held responsible for not being particularly good at his job.

That all said, of course nothing justifies the extreme and personal vitriol being directed Snyder's way, and he should be given credit for the things he did well (casting Gal Gadot and helping get Wonder Woman off the ground being #1 in my book). And I have an enormous amount of sympathy for him personally, given the events of the last year-plus. Still doesn't mean he shouldn't be minimized in the DCEU though.

[GHScorpiosRule]

PREACH, @stealinghome! He deserves a LOT of blame, but not all.

I wonder if they even thought to consult with Donner? Or did Donner want nothing to do with it?

[Captain Carrot]

I both do and don't blame Snyder for the mess. A lot of decisions that he made are to blame, but he was giving WB what they asked for. Here's how I see it:

 

Let's say that you're in charge of catering for a major event, and you hire Snyder's Liver and Onions to be the caterer. Now, Snyder may make the best Liver and Onions ever, and some of the people at the event are going to think it's the best meal they ever had. But, a whole lot of people are going to be unhappy with the food you provided.

[Bruinsfan]

stealinghome, you summed up my own thoughts on the matter pretty well. At best, I think Snyder might be well-used in setting up the choreography and cinematography of action sequences moving forward, as those were generally excellent in Man of Steel and fairly well filmed in BvS but shot in the foot by the crappy rushed CGI. But he should be kept far, far away from storytelling tasks.

[Lugal]

On 12/10/2017 at 0:37 PM, stealinghome said:

tbh I'd say that Snyder shouldn't have a bigger role with the movies going forward. I actually agree with that article to some degree--I do think that the real culprits behind the DCEU being a mess are the WB executives who have mishandled the franchise pretty much since Day 1.

I would agree, since when the Phase One films were coming out, and even after Avengers, it always felt like WB didn't really want to do an extended universe and were happy to keep making Batman (after Nolan's trilogy) and Superman films (although that was a little more complicated after Superman Returns and the 2009 court case with Jerry Siegal's heirs).  It was only after Avengers made a billion dollars that it felt like WB was dragged into an extended universe, and it always felt like they are trying to catch up to Marvel.

[MarkHB]

Interview with Asher Angel, the new Billy Batson, about Shazam:

[MarkHB]

I realize that there are varying opinions about the DCEU.  Some of us loved MoS and BvS, others hated them.  But can we all come together for a kumbaya moment and agree that, whatever its faults, there is at least one thing it does NOT deserve....

[Silver Raven]

Jake Gyllenhall as Batman?

https://www.cbr.com/jake-gyllenhaal-batman-probably-replacing-ben-affleck/

[starri]

On 1/8/2018 at 10:48 PM, MarkHB said:

I realize that there are varying opinions about the DCEU.  Some of us loved MoS and BvS, others hated them.  But can we all come together for a kumbaya moment and agree that, whatever its faults, there is at least one thing it does NOT deserve....

Oh, God, no....

[AimingforYoko]

Freaks and Geeks actor John Francis Daley and Jonathan Goldstein to direct Flash movie.

Edited January 17, 2018 by AimingforYoko

[JessePinkman]

They're great but...more Marvel poaching? Come on.

[MarkHB]

I would have been happy to get Lord & Miller back...

[HunterHunted]

On 1/17/2018 at 7:59 AM, JessePinkman said:

They're great but...more Marvel poaching? Come on.

As always, it seems like Warner Brothers is learning the wrong lesson from Marvel's success. Warners thinks they can ape Marvel's success by putting fun pop soundtracks on their films or poaching Marvel writers and directors. Marvel had an understanding of where they wanted to be and what they wanted to do for every phase. They didn't know if they would be successful. It wasn't until Avengers made billions that they really started planning for a decade, but regardless they knew the standalone phase 1 films were heading to an Avengers film. Warners doesn't seem to get what the lessons are--know your characters and plan, plan, plan.

I don't even know that it makes sense to hire two guys who make funny somewhat poignant films to direct Flashpoint. A movie about a guy whose life was pretty decent except one thing and in trying to fix that one thing, he turns the entire world into a shit sandwich. If ever there was a time to lean into grim dark, this would be it so that his life before stood out in stark contrast.

However, I really don't want them to do Flashpoint. It's terrible and would likely follow the script of the Animated Flashpoint Paradox because the DCEU has established that Antiope had died during the early 1900s and couldn't possibly conspire with Orm. Penthiselea doesn't seem to exist in the DCEU. So we'll likely get the Arthur Diana affair (with Mera making the most pathetic moves ever) that starts a world war. Booo!

Additionally, I don't think we've seen enough of Barry's life to really highlight the kind of hellscape he accidentally creates. I feel Flashpoint is a second or third movie in a Flash trilogy, but not a first.

Hire Daley and Goldstein if you're scrapping plans to do Flashpoint.

Edited January 19, 2018 by HunterHunted

[dusang]

On 1/8/2018 at 10:48 PM, MarkHB said:

I realize that there are varying opinions about the DCEU.  Some of us loved MoS and BvS, others hated them.  But can we all come together for a kumbaya moment and agree that, whatever its faults, there is at least one thing it does NOT deserve....

On the upside, I've never seen so many excellent "nope" gifs!

[Dee]

‘This Is Us’ Star Ron Cephas Jones Circles Wizard Role in DC Superhero Film ‘SHAZAM!’

[MarkHB]

On 1/17/2018 at 0:32 PM, HunterHunted said:

Additionally, I don't think we've seen enough of Barry's life to really highlight the kind of hellscape he accidentally creates. I feel Flashpoint is a second or third movie in a Flash trilogy, but not a first.

I agree. I'd like a first Flash movie to be a fun affair where he just uses speed tricks to take down a series of Rogues, rather than concentrating on time travel and the like.

[MarkHB]

Also, The Wrap is reporting that Warner Bros. is mulling three possible films for the return of Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn: Suicide Squad 2, Birds of Prey (potentially a re-development of the Gotham City Sirens movie), and Joker vs. Harley with Jared Leto.  Warning: article contains one much-rumored potential spoiler for SS2.

[scarynikki12]

1 hour ago, MarkHB said:

Also, The Wrap is reporting that Warner Bros. is mulling three possible films for the return of Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn: Suicide Squad 2, Birds of Prey (potentially a re-development of the Gotham City Sirens movie), and Joker vs. Harley with Jared Leto.  Warning: article contains one much-rumored potential spoiler for SS2.

Birds of Prey should always have been on the table but I'll take what I can get. 

[MarkHB]

Unexplained lightning strikes in Toronto today...

[MarkHB]

Mark Hughes wrote a fairly long article looking at the overall reception of the early DCEU movies, BvS in particular.  It's neither a hate piece nor a fluff piece (at least IMHO) and, as someone who really likes BvS, I think it's the clearest article I've seen on the subject.

Quote

Batman v Superman presents a Superman and a Batman who have lost faith, who exist in a world that acts as if it no longer wants or needs or trusts heroes, a world that tries to tear down heroes, and so they struggle and they trip and they fall, just as Jor-El told Superman humanity would do and so of course it's also what heroes will sometimes do. But in the end, Superman and Batman confront their inner demons -- representing those demons for one another, at first -- and in the midst of overwhelming despair and pain and darkness they help one another regain hope and so together they are able to see a way forward again.

That is the real lesson of Batman v Superman if we listen to what it's really saying. However, the problem for many viewers is that it takes a long time to actually get us to that point in the story where the challenges and upending of expectations and cynicism and loss finally start to give way to the redemption and hope. So for most mainstream audiences and a lot of longtime fans, the weight of everything that comes before winds up too oppressive and makes it impossible for them to appreciate the changes at the end.

[Perfect Xero]

1 hour ago, MarkHB said:

Mark Hughes wrote a fairly long article looking at the overall reception of the early DCEU movies, BvS in particular.  It's neither a hate piece nor a fluff piece (at least IMHO) and, as someone who really likes BvS, I think it's the clearest article I've seen on the subject.

The problem for me is that a Superman who doesn't have hope and doesn't see the way forward isn't Superman. It's his defining characteristic.

This would be one thing if it was movie 3 or 4 in a series that had already established Superman and there had been some clear event that triggered a change, but MoS is already about how much the world fears and hates Superman and how he's berated by Costner Kent into keeping himself hidden while people abuse him and he strikes messianic poses. The world doesn't even really know that Superman exists or have any sort of idea of who he is until the end of the movie.

[MarkHB]

On 2/1/2018 at 7:03 PM, Perfect Xero said:

The problem for me is that a Superman who doesn't have hope and doesn't see the way forward isn't Superman. It's his defining characteristic.

I think we're definitely in the MMV space on that, as I've never seen that as his defining characteristic.  That's probably why I didn't have a problem with stripping him down to "immensely powerful alien shows up and wants to fight bad guys."

[MarkHB]

The official production announcement and synopsis for Shazam was released today!

Quote

We all have a superhero inside us, it just takes a bit of magic to bring it out. In Billy Batson’s ([Asher] Angel) case, by shouting out one word—SHAZAM!—this streetwise 14-year-old foster kid can turn into the adult Super Hero Shazam ([Zachary] Levi), courtesy of an ancient wizard. Still a kid at heart—inside a ripped, godlike body—Shazam revels in this adult version of himself by doing what any teen would do with superpowers: have fun with them! Can he fly? Does he have X-ray vision? Can he shoot lightning out of his hands? Can he skip his social studies test? Shazam sets out to test the limits of his abilities with the joyful recklessness of a child. But he’ll need to master these powers quickly in order to fight the deadly forces of evil controlled by Dr. Thaddeus Sivana ([Mark] Strong).

The release goes on to make the point that the film is definitely set in the DC Universe, and also in Philadelphia.

[Bruinsfan]

I raise an eyebrow at "ripped, godlike body" being used to describe Zachary Levi, particularly when we know Dwayne Johnson is going to be playing one of his villains at some point. He's going to look like a coat rack when they stand next to one another!

However, Mark Strong as Dr. Sivana is highly encouraging. He gives great villain!

[Silver Raven]

5 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I raise an eyebrow at "ripped, godlike body" being used to describe Zachary Levi, particularly when we know Dwayne Johnson is going to be playing one of his villains at some point. He's going to look like a coat rack when they stand next to one another!

However, Mark Strong as Dr. Sivana is highly encouraging. He gives great villain!

[Bruinsfan]

John Krasinski is hot, but what does that have to do with my post?