The DC Extended Universe: To Thanagar and Beyond!

[Perfect Xero]

Batman: DO YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO A TOAD WHEN IT'S STRUCK BY A BATARANG!?!?

[VCRTracking]

I feel now would be an apt time to post this excerpt from a  2001 Joss Whedon interview on the Onion AV Club:
 

Quote

 

JOSS WHEDON: X-Men was very interesting in that, by that time, I actually had a reputation in television. I was actually somebody. People stopped thinking I was John Sweden on the phone. And then, in X-Men, not only did they throw out my script and never tell me about it; they actually invited me to the read-through, having thrown out my entire draft without telling me. I was like, "Oh, that's right! This is the movies! The writer is shit in the movies!" I'll never understand that. I have one line left in that movie. Actually, there are a couple of lines left in that are out of context and make no sense, or are delivered so badly, so terribly... There's one line that's left the way I wrote it.

O: Which is?

JW: "'It's me.' 'Prove it.' 'You're a dick.'" Hey, it got a laugh.

O: It's funny that the only lines I really remember from that movie are that one and Storm's toad comment.

JW: Okay, which was also mine, and that's the interesting thing. Everybody remembers that as the worst line ever written, but the thing about that is, it was supposed to be delivered as completely offhand. [Adopts casual, bored tone.] "You know what happens when a toad gets hit by lightning?" Then, after he gets electrocuted, "Ahhh, pretty much the same thing that happens to anything else." But Halle Berry said it like she was Desdemona. [Strident, ringing voice.] "The same thing that happens to everything eeelse!" That's the thing that makes you go crazy. At least "You're a dick" got delivered right. The worst thing about these things is that, when the actors say it wrong, it makes the writer look stupid.

 

[Perfect Xero]

I think I've seen him say that it was supposed to be a payoff to a running thing through the script where Toad would keep spouting off various facts about toads and how awesome they are while being annoying every time he showed up in the film, then Storm would fry him and deliver the line.

She was taking the annoying thing he kept saying and threw it back in his face and making him finally shut up about it.

Then they cut all that stuff out but left in the payoff line for some reason, so it just came off like a bad attempt at saying something bad ass.

[darkestboy]

Really can't wait for SDCC and hopefully some announcements for future movies like Gotham City Sirens, The Flash, The Batman etc. 

[Zuleikha]

I hate the way he blames Halle Barry, though. I can see the line working as he envisioned with the setup, but without the setup, I don't think the casual bored tone would have worked any better. Also, I don't think it would have fit Storm as she was in the movie. I thought Barry did an okay attempt with the line she was given, in the context she was given it, and for the character she had. 

[Perfect Xero]

Indeed, if Halle gave the 'wrong' reading of a line, that's on the director and/or editor more than the actor. Of course Whedon has a bit of a history of blaming actresses to deflect criticism directed at his work, so ...

[Fukui San]

11 minutes ago, Zuleikha said:

I hate the way he blames Halle Barry, though. I can see the line working as he envisioned with the setup, but without the setup, I don't think the casual bored tone would have worked any better. Also, I don't think it would have fit Storm as she was in the movie. I thought Barry did an okay attempt with the line she was given, in the context she was given it, and for the character she had. 

Storm in any incarnation is the last X-Man to deliver a quip like that.  There are plenty of jokesters on the X-Men, but not Storm who is almost pure gravitas. There's no way Joss doesn't know this.

[supposebly]

I think Whedon would never let characterization stand in the way of a quippy line.

[MarkHB]

Folks, I realize that some discussion of Whedon is warranted, but let's remember that this is the DCEU thread, not an X-Men thread.  In fact, we already have a Justice League thread if you want a more-specific place to discuss Joss's finishing that particular movie for Zack.  Thanks!

[tennisgurl]

You know, I think, to some extent, as much as DC likes to tout how it has the most iconic superheroes (your Batman's, your Superman's) its been really hurt by it having characters that everyone already knows all about, and whos origin stories and most famous storylines have been done over and over, in both the comic world and in the mainstream. It just seems like it made them a bit too overconfident. Like, they thought that if *Marvel could make a shit ton of money and gain rave reviews from both fans and critics with characters that hardly anyone knew anything about, they could easily do the same with their most famous characters that everyone knows about, without really putting fourth all the effort they really should have. I mean, this is just my opinion, but, to me, Superman and Batman v Superman were hurt by playing too close to the stories and backgrounds that we already knew, with the only editions being extra "grittiness" like Superman being all angsty and Batman killing people and branding criminals so they can be murdered in prison. They just didn't add anything different from what we have seen a million times, beyond making their whole universe more dark and depressing. Suicide Squad, on the other hand, wasn't really trying to be any other iteration of the Suicide Squad, it was trying to be a completely different movie (that may or may not have involved a talking raccoon) instead of doing its own thing. The MCU has changed a lot of stuff from the original comics, but it usually works out because, for one thing, most audiences don't know as much about the characters and their backstories so they don't really notice, and because the changes allow the movies to do their own stories that work better for the screen or their own stories and universe. I think that's the issue in general. Its just not trying to do its own thing, its too busy trying to play catch up with Marvel, and escape the shadows of previous adaptations. I haven't seen Wonder Woman yet, but I hear it actually dealt with that problem, but here's hoping this means DC starts just concentrating on just telling good stories from now on, and not living in the shadows of what others have already done better.

*I don't mean to constantly compare the DCEU to the MCU. I really don't, even if I'm an admitted Marvel fangirl. I like DC, I want to like the DCEU, but if the DCEU keeps trying to keep up with the MCU, to the detriment of their own movies, I'm going to keep commenting on it.

[darkestboy]

It seems that Justice League Dark and Batgirl are likely the next movies on the production slate ....

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/batgirl/49949/justice-league-dark-and-batgirl-next-on-dc-movie-slate

[xaxat]

Hmmm Wonder Woman does great BO and Batgirl moves up in priority?

Coincidence?

[VCRTracking]

Marvel Studios' Kevin Feige and DC Comics' Geoff Johns, both former interns of Richard and Lauren Donner, pay tribute to Richard and cite his Superman movie as a continued inspiration for them:

Edited June 9, 2017 by VCRTracking

[darkestboy]

It's been four movies so far, but ranking them, I'd go ....

1: Wonder Woman

2: Batman V. Superman: Dawn Of Justice

3: Suicide Squad

4: Man Of Steel

[SeanC]

On 6/8/2017 at 11:45 AM, xaxat said:

Hmmm Wonder Woman does great BO and Batgirl moves up in priority?

Coincidence?

Honestly, probably.

Batgirl has a director, which at this point is more than most of the rest of DC's announced slate, and two of the other films that were supposed to be coming, The Flash and The Batman, have been in production turmoil.

[methodwriter85]

Whenever I hear the name Batgirl, I think of that horrible article about Alicia Silverstone's weight gain that was called From Batgirl to Fatgirl.

[tennisgurl]

Finally saw Wonder Woman, and I was really impressed. By far the best of the DC movies so far, mainly because the writers and director actually decided that it was ok to have actual likable characters around who aren't just angry and broody all the time, but are still good guys. Plus, on a pure filmmaking perspective, it was the most solidly written, and well shot of the DC movies so far. So, congrats DC. You finally made a really solid, good movie.

Granted, this doesn't mean that this will be a huge turning point for the franchise. I saw the Justice League trailer, and it looked good, but it also highlighted a big issue that this franchise has, especially as it desperately tries to keep with its competition. When the Avengers came out, it was a huge deal because we already knew all these characters, and got to know them in their individual movies, so when they came together, it really WAS a huge deal. Here? We don't know half most of these guys at all. We know Batman (who is a pretty big asshole, even if he did learn a lesson) and Wonder Woman (who is extremely different in the current timeline than the woman we got to know in her movie), and Superman (whos "dead" for now), and that's it. The new guys look cool, but it will be REALLY hard for the movie to give them all really well defined personalities in the middle of a big team up movie with a big Save The World plot to boot. So, while I think WW is a step in the right direction, I will need to see JL to see if DC really learned its lesson from WW*.

*And NOT in the way that they "learned a lesson" for Suicide Squad, where they heard how sick fans were of the constant Grim Darkness of the DC movies, and just added a bunch of out of place songs and stupid jokes, and forgot to write a plot that made sense, or characters that had a point.

[MarkHB]

There's enough BTS stuff floating around now... I present the Aquaman topic!

[Bruinsfan]

On 6/17/2017 at 10:49 AM, tennisgurl said:

Plus, on a pure filmmaking perspective, it was the most solidly written, and well shot of the DC movies so far.

I don't know if I can agree with the latter point. In a purely visual sense, Man of Steel was beautifully filmed. Zack Snyder does have an excellent eye for what looks good on camera, regardless of his problems with story and characterization. The "First Flight" sequence was as impressive a character-coming-into-their-own moment as the "No Man's Land" scene (though it lacked the latter's moral significance), and I actually think his lengthy final fight/destruction porn sequence was visually superior to Jenkins'. She clearly has a truer understanding of the heroic nature of these iconic characters though.

[tennisgurl]

I will give you Man of Steel @Bruinsfan, its shot quite well, and its also the second best of the DC films to me, after Wonder Woman. I think they're probably both about even when it comes to pure filmmaking, with Wonder Woman getting a slight edge. I was more thinking about Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad when I was comparing filming styles. Those two both have a few interesting directorial choices, but I REALLY hate the constant dark lenses, and how everything looks literally dirty and gross. It takes away from the story, and makes it look like the movies are trying to hard.

[darkestboy]

I'm really hoping next month we'll get a proper confirmation as to what they plan to film next after Aquaman.

[MarkHB]

First, for those of you who really don't want to hear about the live-action DCEU Batman, DC is releasing a boxed set of all 30 animated DCU movies, from Superman: Doomsday to Batman and Harley Quinn.

 

Meanwhile, in the live-action world, Matt Reeves, in the process of promoting his latest Planet of the Apes movie, has made a couple of comments regarding The Batman:

Quote

There’s a chance to do an almost noir driven, detective version of Batman that is point-of-view driven in a very very powerful way, that will hopefully connect you to what’s going on inside of his head...

Also, Variety asked how confident Reeves is that he’ll be able to tell the Batman story that he wants to tell, given that small roadblock (which resulted in him walking away) during negotiations:

Quote

I certainly hope so. Let’s put it this way. I’ve never worked with them but my experience with them so far has been really good. As I describe what I want to do, they seem really excited. So its the beginning of a journey....

So I think there’s a way in which you can work with a studio. I’ve never worked with any studio other than Fox, so its going to be an exploration for me. I’m excited to say that thus far they seem really excited about it and I suppose if we should ever come to an impasse then we’d have to resolve it one way or another. I’m very hopeful and positive about it.

More at the links.  Also, he has confirmed that Ben Affleck will be playing Batman.

[Bruinsfan]

Was there any question of that? I know he dropped out of the director's role on the solo film, but he's still the Batman of the DCEU and all over Justice League marketing.

[BetterButter]

'Batman' Director Matt Reeves Has Dropped Ben Affleck's Script

[MarkHB]

On 6/30/2017 at 5:28 PM, Bruinsfan said:

Was there any question of that? I know he dropped out of the director's role on the solo film, but he's still the Batman of the DCEU and all over Justice League marketing.

There were rumors and/or speculation that they might play it as a flashback with a younger actor and possibly use Ben as a framing device (see also Wonder Woman), rather than going forward from JL.

[scriggle]

14 hours ago, BetterButter said:

'Batman' Director Matt Reeves Has Dropped Ben Affleck's Script

And "he is planning a noir take on the character." Because that would be so new, refreshing, and original. Right? /sarcasm

[MarkHB]

On 6/30/2017 at 5:28 PM, Bruinsfan said:

Was there any question of that? I know he dropped out of the director's role on the solo film, but he's still the Batman of the DCEU and all over Justice League marketing.

Well....

[Silver Raven]

It looks like Shazam is a go.  Though this article says Dwayne Johnson will play Black Adam, which I've also seen denied in other reports.

http://screenrant.com/shazam-dc-movie-filming-release-date/

[starri]

Looks like Joss Whedon may be the credited director of Justice League after all.

Snyder has scrubbed every mention of it from his social media.

[MarkHB]

1 hour ago, starri said:

Looks like Joss Whedon may be the credited director of Justice League after all.

Snyder has scrubbed every mention of it from his social media.

Zack did wish the team well going into Hall H tomorrow.  I'm not reading anything into the social media thing because for all I know he's clearing things out as part of his healing process; if his name does actually come off the movie, then yeah, I'll be disappointed, but until then I'm in wait-and-see mode.

[starri]

I just have a hard time squaring the erasing of any mention of it, whether or not he mentioned SDCC, as meaning anything else.  When I saw the massive sets they were building for these "reshoots" it seemed like it was going to be more extensive than we were being told.

Director's Guild rules say that if a person directs at least 51% of the finished film, he or she gets solo credit, which is why Richard Lester's Superman II required such extensive redoes.  I'm just wildly speculating here, but I can picture it where the movie needed extensive work done (not a bad thing in and of itself, given that it worked out for Star Trek Beyond and Rogue One), and because of his daughter's suicide, he just wasn't capable of doing it.  And I don't blame him at all for that.

[BetterButter]

[starri]

They apparently teased a Flashpoint movie.

Hard pass.

[PepSinger]

They are making a sequel to Suicide Squad. What have we done to deserve this?!

[Trini]

18 hours ago, starri said:

They apparently teased a Flashpoint movie.

Hard pass.

I just wish they'd do a story that hadn't already been adapted; or come up with a new story. Also, why would they pick such a dark story for the character that apparently is the comic relief in this universe? I thought they were trying to move away from the "murderverse".

[MarkHB]

Here's the full list of movies with logos that they teased yesterday:

• Aquaman
• Shazam!
• Suicide Squad 2
• The Batman
• Justice League Dark
• Batgirl
• Green Lantern Corps
• The Flash: Flashpoint
• Wonder Woman 2

And this makes it sound like they actually do the Flashpoint from the comics, where Bruce Wayne was shot and his father became Batman:

[starri]

21 hours ago, MarkHB said:

And this makes it sound like they actually do the Flashpoint from the comics, where Bruce Wayne was shot and his father became Batman:

I just think they need to give their universe time to breathe before they reboot it.

And I know this'll be an excuse to rid themselves of Batfleck, and since they have plans for a Nightwing movie, I don't know how they'll do that if they make Batman younger.  And frankly, I don't want to see Gal Gadot subjugating a bunch of humans and trying to destroy half the world.

And I worry that SS2, The Batman, and JLD might lead us directly back to the grimdark we've finally started to shed.  And I LOVE the characters from JLD.

[icewolf]

Wonder Woman 2 being released on December 13, 2019!

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/wonder-woman-2-release-date-set-1022782?utm_source=twitter

Edited July 26, 2017 by icewolf

[stealinghome]

Yessssssssssss. Boy, DC is wasting no time capitalizing--good for them!

[Zuleikha]

And I know this'll be an excuse to rid themselves of Batfleck, and since they have plans for a Nightwing movie, I don't know how they'll do that if they make Batman younger.  And frankly, I don't want to see Gal Gadot subjugating a bunch of humans and trying to destroy half the world.

I would love to see this as long as it's an alternate reality that has no impact on any other movies.

[MarkHB]

FYI: I've updated the master list of DCEU films in the first post of the thread with all the recent changes.

[darkestboy]

I think the question is what order should the movies be released.

If it were me (and excluding Aquaman), I'd go ....

2019

Shazam

The Batman

Wonder Woman 2

2020

Gotham City Sirens

Green Lantern Corps

Batgirl

Suicide Squad 2

2021

Nightwing

Justice League Dark

Flashpoint

Justice League 2

[Zuleikha]

Every time I see Gotham City Sirens, I get this little twinge. I am so excited for the idea of it, but I really wish David Ayers would be replaced as director. Hopefully, he'll see the success of Wonder Woman and study up on how to film actresses without being creepy and gross about it.

[Bruinsfan]

What, you don't want to see an entire movie filmed in BootyCam?

[BetterButter]

The Joker Origin Story On Deck: Todd Phillips, Scott Silver, Martin Scorsese Aboard WB/DC Film

[Joe]

The Joker doesn't need an origin story. I like him best as a force of chaos that just... appears. And does his thing. Sometimes explaining something can take the life out of it. Witness midichlorians. However, if they play with the whole multiple-choice past thing, presenting multiple possible origins, that would be interesting and incredibly brave. So we're getting something that will pin down his backstory once and for all, set in stone. After that, no one will want to use the Joker again because now he's incredibly boring.

[MarkHB]

4 hours ago, BetterButter said:

The Joker Origin Story On Deck: Todd Phillips, Scott Silver, Martin Scorsese Aboard WB/DC Film

 

3 hours ago, Joe said:

The Joker doesn't need an origin story. I like him best as a force of chaos that just... appears. And does his thing. Sometimes explaining something can take the life out of it. Witness midichlorians. However, if they play with the whole multiple-choice past thing, presenting multiple possible origins, that would be interesting and incredibly brave. So we're getting something that will pin down his backstory once and for all, set in stone. After that, no one will want to use the Joker again because now he's incredibly boring.

Personally, I had all these arguments in 1989, so I'm just going to wait and see what happens.  Plus, this thing is slated to be an out-of-DCEU-continuity Elseworlds film (not the DCEU Letoker), so whatever it comes up with is... just a neat movie in the long run.

But I would LOVE it if they used this logo:

[scarynikki12]

I'm feeling so conflicted!  On the one hand, I'm generally not a fan of Joker origin stories.  I agree that he's best when he poofs into existence alongside Batman and causes all the chaos.  On the other hand, I love The Man Who Laughs and Jerome from Gotham so, if we have to have an origin movie, my hope is that it is in that spirit.  The fact that Scorsese is involved is icing. 

[Trini]

What was the last villain origin story* that did well at the box office?

 

*(usually those are in the horror genre, which is not quite comparable)

[MarkHB]

9 hours ago, Trini said:

What was the last villain origin story* that did well at the box office?

I don't recall anyone trying to do one that wasn't incidental to that same villain getting pummeled by the titular hero of the film.