S05.E03: Old Wounds

[JoannKB]

One thing that confused me about the Ryan/Maci fiasco - did she wait 45 minutes before calling him? Ryan was in the wrong, but if you're meeting him to drop off the kid, wouldn't you text or call when he was 5 minutes late to let him know you're there? Or did she try to call earlier and he didn't pick up? It gives me a headache to even watch Ryan on TV; I can't imagine having to share a child with him.

 

As far as the Tyler-goes-to-film-school thing, I have a sense that the only people with a career he has experienced in person are all the MTV folks he's spent the last few years with. He doesn't have any other role models. Some of the producers or cameramen may have mentioned to him that if he can pick up some technical skills they could get him a job. If he were willing to move to a bigger city it probably would be a viable career, becoming a camerman or editor on commercials or videos or something like that.

[Ljohnson1987]

Ryan is an idiot. I commend Maci for not going to his level, and calling him names in front of Bentley.

 

Why did Kail have to hoard in on Amber's book tour? That was unnecessary.

 

Catelynn and Tyler: Newsflash!!!! Brandon and Teresa are Carly's parents. They have the right to make decisions about how they raise their daughter. Did Tyler think that posting the video wasn't gonna come back and bite him in the ass? I wonder if Carly's adoption is closed now. Kim saying that they need real jobs was amazing.

[ethalfrida]

Regarding Ryan.... we do not know what time Ryan was in bed. It could have been 12, 3 the next day or 11 the previous Tuesday. However, they took pains to note that it was 1:30 when Maci was there. We also noted that apparently they were not in the same place at 2:10. And no matter what time it was Maci should have made a greater effort in getting Bent into the vehicle with his dad then leaving without dragging the child and grandparents into it. 

Edited April 7, 2015 by ethalfrida

[jadecorleone]

The thing that Ryan seems to forget is that #1 He signed on for this. He had the option to say no. #2. Bentley will eventually see all of this and have some big questions for his dad. Yes alot of what we see is edited, but Larry's reaction......no amount of camera magic could create that. If Ryan hasent started to step up to be a dad to Bentley by this point, he never will. ( I could be wrong)

 

I dont know if this next one has been answered before, but I was wondering if Brandon and Teresa have the option to close the adoption at this point. As many others have stated, Caitlynn and Tyler should be thanking all the gods that they get updates about Carly at all and Tyler's reaction to all of this tells me that he still has no idea about how boundries truly work.

[Kellyee]

 

I dont know if this next one has been answered before, but I was wondering if Brandon and Teresa have the option to close the adoption at this point.

 

Open adoption agreements are never legally enforceable. Brandon and Teresa had all the power the minute Catelynn and Tyler signed the papers. Brandon and Teresa could have refused to ever see them or let them see Carly, and there's not a single thing they could do about it. Which Dawn never seemed to mention during 16 and Pregnant, if you recall. The only thing forcing them to keep their word is Catelynn and Tyler's fame. Cutting them off would end up broadcast on the Internet for sure.

 

I feel bad for Catelynn and Tyler. I know people like them. They were pretty much doomed the day they were born. I'm a little surprised that Tyler turned out this bad too, because his mother actually seems like she has her act together. I would love to hear more about what made her be with Butch.

 

[Primetimer]

Amber, Kail, and Amber’s spider eyelashes embark on a book tour so that American teens can learn about how to get knocked up and famous.

Read the story

[Brooklynista]

I've seen quite a few statements like this, and I'm just curious - what would Dawn's motivation be? I'm being totally serious here, not snarky or argumentative. I don't know much about adoption, and I was just wondering what she would gain from presenting it this way. 

 

 

 

 

This is what I'm saying about Amber. She is so easily riled! That is why I keep saying she needs some sort of therapy so she can learn techniques for dealing with her anger. I was with Gary on this. But even if he was totally in the wrong, she needs to be able to cope with it like a mature mother, and not fly off the handle, hang up, etc. 

 

 

 

Right. That's how I took it. I thought she was giving him the grace of acknowledging that anyone can run late from time to time, but you don't make it like the person who gets fed up and leaves is in the wrong. Also, if you ARE running late, and it's more than 5 minutes, CALL. Damn. Ryan just handled the entire situation like a giant ass. Sometimes I wonder if he is worse when he has a girlfriend around (when doesn't he?), so he can kind of impress her with his "toughness". Prove to her he is NOT into Maci anymore. But if I were one of his girlfriends, the way he treats the mother of his child (and the child, for that matter) would be a huge red flag. Bye, Felicia!

 

 

A white, blond baby from two teens who dont have the smarts or resources to question paperwork or hire a lawyer?  Dawn's picture probably went up with gold stars around it in the office cafeteria for hitting paydirt.  White, blond babies are certainly the gold standard in adoptions.

[Kellyee]

 

I've seen quite a few statements like this, and I'm just curious - what would Dawn's motivation be? I'm being totally serious here, not snarky or argumentative. I don't know much about adoption, and I was just wondering what she would gain from presenting it this way.

 

Money. Private adoption is a business. And healthy babies are in short supply. Open adoption is a voluntary act on the part of the adoptive parents. The whole idea of an "agreement" is mostly just scam. No one will take Carly from Brandon and Teresa at this point, or force them to allow visitation.

[politichick]

Poor Catelyn. I wish she had found herself another more worthy boyfriend because Tyler is a media-whoring piece of trash. When they were talking about the Carly video did you guys hear him say, "We need to go ahead (or hurry) and pop this new baby out," and Cate reminded him that she with the tacky name is not a replacement for Carly? He's becoming a real monster and needs some sort of intervention or therapy.

 

Amber is ridiculous and needs to also be in some sort of therapy. Why doesn't she understand the child just started school and needs a schedule? Also, she needs to stop talking trash around Leah, who has all sorts of things going around in her mind about the girlfriend thanks to the crazy stuff her mother says.

 

What a mess.

[MissMel]

I just noticed Ryan and Tyler are mirror images of each other. Tyler grew up in chaos with no control and Ryan grew up stable with all the control. Now that they are adults, Tyler has control and doesn't fear failure or being wrong because he's at least not going make the same mistakes his father/parents made. (I think Kim is doing well now but I feel like she probably had some unhealthy habits when she was younger and with Butch.) So whatever he does, it can't be any worse than what he went through so it's all good. He's never really going to make a mistake in his mind. He can always say "well at least I tried!".

Ryan, on the other hand, looks like a person fearful of failing so he doesn't even try. No matter what, he won't be good enough. Maybe he lashes out at Maci because he doesn't understand why-after all the crap they have dealt with-she would still think he can do right by his child. His kid is ok with Maci, ok with his parents, they and Maci are in control, so he doesn't understand why he can't just play with him like he wants. When he doesn't get his way, he gets mad and leaves. He just jumps straight into "I'm never gonna get this right so screw it. Why try?".

Edited April 7, 2015 by MissMel

[poopchute]

Holy shit, Tyler is so dumb.  First of all, I don't even understand how posting a video of pictures of Carly helps him while he's sad.  Can't he just look at the pictures himself?  How does posting it on facebook make him feel better?  It's not like Brandon and Theresa said he can't have pictures himself and look at them whenever he wants. What an idiot.  His attitude would enrage me if I was Brandon and Theresa and I would immediately cut off all contact.  Actually I probably would have done that when I saw the enormous blanket they had with her face on it.  Lunatics.  His sense of entitlement is unbelievable!  "Well they were on a magazine cover less than a year ago."  Okay it's THEIR CHILD they can do whatever the fuck they want with her, but HE CAN'T.  What doesn't he understand about that? 

[Tatum]

 

How does posting it on facebook make him feel better?

 

Nothing gets facebook likes more than posting pictures of a cute kid. For a guy that counts his "likes" posting a picture of a kid to get FB attention probably does raise his spirits.

 

ETA:

 

Well if that's what he needs to feel better about his life then he should seriously consider some serious counseling. Again. More counseling! Because he is still a disaster.

 

I was mostly kidding. But even if there is some truth to this statement- if you were to list all the reasons Tyler needs therapy, my theory wouldn't even make the top 10. Maybe not even the top 20.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Tatum

[poopchute]

Well if that's what he needs to feel better about his life then he should seriously consider some serious counseling. Again. More counseling! Because he is still a disaster.

[ghoulina]

Why did Kail have to hoard in on Amber's book tour? That was unnecessary.

 

I'm assuming MTV sets up joint publicity events like this all the time with these girls, probably saves them money this way. 

 

Money. Private adoption is a business. And healthy babies are in short supply. Open adoption is a voluntary act on the part of the adoptive parents. The whole idea of an "agreement" is mostly just scam. No one will take Carly from Brandon and Teresa at this point, or force them to allow visitation.

 

Thanks, everyone, for the answers. I guess I just always (naively) assumed that people who worked at adoption agencies were altruistic and just there to help people. It makes me feel pretty squicky to think of Dawn selling Cate and Tyler a line so she could get a a good "commission" for a good baby. 

[CourtneyCourt]

I actually know someone who knows Brandon and Theresa. Fun fact. I assumed Catelynn and Tyler knew where she lives but maybe I just know this from who I know.

Tyler has a REAL issue with social media. I liked how his mom told him he needs a real non MTV job. Film school? Really? In Michigan. Tyler infuriates me.I liked how Catelynn had some sense to tell him not to post the video. She could lose all connection to Carly based on Tyler's blatant need for likes. Also, the way Tyler got on Catelynn about what her doctor said about how much weight to gain. GRRRR!!!

Amber and her "Boo Boo" talk annoys me. But Leah loves being around her and that's more than Bentley can say about Ryan! I hope she can get her life together and get custody back. Gary, I just don't get the attraction.

Edited April 7, 2015 by CourtneyCourt

[sparklemotion]

Tyler still doesn't understand that Brandon and Teresa adopted Carly, he did not loan her like a library book for an extended period of time. I think Catelynn is finally starting to understand which is a start. Oddly the thing that bothered me the most about their scenes was painting that purple wall pink with not a drop of primer in sight. 

[Maharincess]

I'm glad I'm not the only one bothered by the paint. I actually yelled at the TV "Primer you idiot".

[Tatum]

I'm assuming MTV sets up joint publicity events like this all the time with these girls, probably saves them money this way. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, everyone, for the answers. I guess I just always (naively) assumed that people who worked at adoption agencies were altruistic and just there to help people. It makes me feel pretty squicky to think of Dawn selling Cate and Tyler a line so she could get a a good "commission" for a good baby. 

 

If I recall, it was discussed on TWOP that Bethany Christian (the adoption agency Catelynn used) has frequently come under fire in other cases where they were less than honest/forthcoming with the bio parents about the rules of open adoption, and also making sure the bio moms (and dads) understand their rights. Maybe I dreamt that though.

[Samwil]

Remember over at TWOP, we always thought B & T were probably scared of Butch coming to take Carly away...now I am sure they are more worried about Tyler...

[Samwil]

I am calling it now, but I think at some point, Tyler is going to end up in jail.  Don't know for what, but I can see it happening.

[qtpye]

Tyler Tyler Tyler...maybe he realizes that he is irrelevant without Carly and Catelynn. 

 

Catelynn will always be a TM, yeah, you are the dad, but the show isn't about the dad's as much.  

 

I would love to know how late they stay up on Monday nights reading viewer comments.  It has to suck for him since his public opinion has changed.  

 

Your Mom is right, Tyler.  Go to school, get a career going, you are a father now, and the MTV money won't last forever.  Oh, and get some counseling.  You need it.

 

I know that some of you are wondering why is Tyler not blaming the agency and Dawn.  The short answer is that the agency use to have Cate and Tyler be their spokespeople, which adds to their fame, and leads to more money.

 

Tyler does not give a damn about Carly or Cate.  He needs the "Teen Mom" gravy train to run forever, because he has no other plans for his life.  Also, he is very spoiled by the type of money he gets as a "Reality T.V. Star".  It will be very hard for him to do a job with regular people wages, because right now he gets tons of money for doing nothing.  It is like he is a watered down version of Justin Bieber waiting to explode.

 

I wanted to hug his mother (and I am not a hugger) when she said, enough talk about babies...when are you going to get serious about school?  If college is not for him...why does he not get any type of vocational training?  Many trades people make great money (though maybe not "Teen Mom" money).

 

Can someone explain to me why would Ryan suggest a meeting place that was less then 100 feet from his apartment?  Why the hell would he not just have Maci drop off Bentley at his apartment?  This could have easily avoided the confusion. 

 

Also, it is obvious his apartment complex has no problem with the cameras, as we saw him and his girlfriend in bed.;  Is he  afraid that when he opens the door... Maci is going to jump on him and beg him to take her back?    Guess what...I think she is over you... and it is not about her, but about your son.

 

I fully believed Maci when she said she was so happy she did not marry Ryan.  I think it might have been the smartest decision of her life.

Edited April 8, 2015 by qtpye

[tumamita]

The way Bentley was crying when he was informed he was going to his dads was sooo sad! My son's dad has been pretty part time but he always loves seeing him. I think it says something huge about Ryan when your own child doesn't even like seeing you.  Wow - so sad and I hope watching these episodes makes him feel like the asshole he is. I also hate the way him and his girlfriend dog Macy. They're both immature. His girlfriend is as big as a goof as he is. You both look lovely on tv.

 

Amber, Amber, Amber you are ridiculous. You're a great mom!? You deserve to have her sleep over!? You want to get pissed and hang up on Gary. Bitch, you owe Gary everything. In case you forgot, you just spent time in prison... PRISON!! Please take several seats with I'm the best mom shit. It's comical. 

 

I'm actually curious if anyone knows how realistic Amber getting full custody is knowing her history. I would assume not likely? I know its only tv but Gary looks more stable and secure for Leah.  

 

I think Tyler making the comment about popping out this baby was just made in anger. He said it, it was caught on tape and you know MTV isn't cutting anything out that is drama worthy. Anyone on earth in their shoes can say questionable comments. They were sold fake dreams with their adoption - I don't blame them and I'm also realistic in life & not ready to jump down everyones throat. 

Edited April 7, 2015 by tumamita

[lexiexx]

If I recall, it was discussed on TWOP that Bethany Christian (the adoption agency Catelynn used) has frequently come under fire in other cases where they were less than honest/forthcoming with the bio parents about the rules of open adoption, and also making sure the bio moms (and dads) understand their rights. Maybe I dreamt that though.

 

It was a storyline on the show when Cate and Tyler were so upset that they weren't allowed to know Carly's last name or where she lived so there's no getting around the fact that they themselves were misled, didn't understand, whatever.   It's messed up to make money promoting Bethany knowing that, I guarantee you that Catelynn's little speech about choosing an open adoption does not really hit on the fact that it's only a request and the adoptive family can close it at any time.   Then they have the nerve to harp on Farrah's porn?  I might be alone in this but at least porn is between two consenting adults.   It's not a big organization that makes big money from pregnant teenagers giving their  kids up for adoption without fully understanding what they are doing. I cant stand Farrah and will probably fast forward her segments but I do think what she's doing for money is the lesser evil.

 

One thing that confused me about the Ryan/Maci fiasco - did she wait 45 minutes before calling him?

 

I guess so she could sit there, and sigh, and look like poor put upon Maci.    Instead of being proactive, calling Ryan, and dropping the kid off at Ryan's parents instead of he didn't answer.   Followed by a text telling him where the kid was.   Could have saved herself a good half hour of sitting in a parking lot if she did wait that long.   Ryan has been telling her he doesn't like her nagging and nitpicking and bitching since 16 & pregnant.    I'm not a huge Ryan fan, he does act like an ass sometimes.  But her constant correcting him and bitching isn't helping. I think that Bentley probably has a habit of repeating the things Maci puts in his head, like Mommys house is his real home, etc.   And Ryan's personality is to disengage, and not play the same games that Maci does with trying to tell Bentley what to think.   As far as his dad goes, I think the guy wants Ryan to step in and correct Bentley when he says these things.  And Ryan chooses to disengage again.   They aren't going to get anywhere approaching the problem like that and it's weird that none of them have figured that out yet.

[DoctorWhovian]

Open adoption agreements are never legally enforceable.

 

This was my initial understanding of them as well. However, it depends on the state. 28 states + DC have some form of legally enforceable "post adoption agreements" or statutes that deal with them. Michigan is not one. So it may depend where B&T live, if there could be such an agreement (and then it would depend in what state the adoption is finalized). But, from a brief look at the statutes (https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/cooperative.pdf) generally, there are ways to get out of these agreements and they aren't exactly easy to enforce. 

 

I found this in Corpus Juris Secondum, which is a legal encyclopedia, and is general (so it may not apply exactly this way in every state, and some of the citations in this particular article are state cases, but many are federal, though none from SCOTUS): 

Postadoption visitation by members of an adoptee's natural family is constitutionally permissible. An open adoption is one in which the final judgment incorporates the parties' preadoption written agreement that the child will have continuing contact with one or more members of his or her biological family after the adoption is completed. While, according to some authorities, the court has the power to order postadoption visitation, open adoption is not recognized everywhere. Thus, it has been held that the court does not have the authority to order an open adoption and that open adoption will not be enforced absent express legislative authority. In any event, the law does not bar informal open adoption arrangements made at the time of the adoption. Such agreements should be enforced when they are determined to be in the best interest of the child. Similarly, the question whether to order postadoption visitation turns solely on an analysis of what is in the child's best interest. That determination is made by weighing all of the factors bearing on the issue. Open adoption agreements are statutorily recognized only in specific circumstances.

[KYBlonde]

There seems to be two sides -

Pro Ryan or Pro Maci.  I'm pro Bentley and he obviously prefers to spend time with his mom and grand parents over Ryan.  That is all I need to know.

Edited April 8, 2015 by KYBlonde

[ghoulina]

Can someone explain to me why would Ryan suggest a meeting place that was less then 100 feet from his apartment?  Why the hell would he not just have Maci drop off Bentley at his apartment?  This could have easily avoided the confusion.

 

Apparently the gates are VERY bothersome. *rolls eyes*

 

MTV is such an instigator....to Macy "aren't you gonna tell larry what happened at the drop-off?"

 

That was awesome! And I appreciated that Maci wasn't falling for it.

[ethalfrida]

 

 

 

 

That was awesome! And I appreciated that Maci wasn't falling for it.

If she hadn't wanted him involved she wouldn't have dropped the Bent off there herself. There was no reason why she should tell him because he already knew. Transparent I say.

Edited April 8, 2015 by ethalfrida

[Madison Bumgarner]

I don't think anyone envies Farrah. She has no friends, a toxic relationship with her family, and has hours of footage showing her mental illness. I think its as simple as Farrah is entertaining but also massively poor company. I'm sure she's an absolutely nightmare backstage at the catch up shows. She's Charlie Sheen without the sense of humor.

Right? I can't believe that people truly believe that the girls envy Farrah in any way. Farrah hopes so, but that after show last week that MTV played after episode 2 showed me that none of them can stand her. I don't blame them.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I've made no secret of how I feel about Ryan. I find him to be:

1) Incredibly physically attractive (tall, lean, dark-eyed & dark-haired guys are my thing...and if they happen to be going prematurely gray silver foxes, even better)

2) A huge douche- a one man Summer's Eve convention

I hope Shelby is practicing super safe sex with him. I mean I hope she's taking birth control pills (correctly) or has an IUD AND he's wearing a condom every single time they have sex. 'Cause I think it's obvious that Ryan doesn't want a kid & that kids cramp his spoiled, laying in bed, driving his fast car or bike, motocross, self-absorbed lifestyle.

Have we ever seen Ryan be sweet or loving with anyone? With Maci? With his parents? With Dalis or Shelby or any other girl?

Also, what the heck was hot 20 year old Ryan doing with 16 year old Maci? Look, I definitely don't think 4 years is a big age difference in relationships. But someone 29 probably has something more in common with someone who is 25 than a 20 year old working high school grad has in common with 16 year old high school student Maci. Something tells me 20 year old Ryan, hot as he was, couldn't find 20 year old women who would put up with his crap, so he went after the younger Maci.

Edited April 8, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[jrose16]

So much lounging. Ryan in bed at 2 p.m? Gary and his recliner? This show should be sponsored by a furniture store. 

[Jess14]

There was too much stupid in this episode. 

 

First of all - Ryan. When you say that you're going to meet someone at 1:30, then you show up at 1:30. If you're close by the meeting place and anticipate that the other person may be late, then you tell them to text you when they're almost there or when they get there. This isn't hard. I will say that it was silly of Maci to just sit there for 40 minutes, but I blame Ryan for this encounter. I will also say that both Ryan and Maci need to stop talking about each other in front of Bentley. Maybe now that Maci is pregnant again, we will stop seeing the same encounter between she and Ryan over and over again. 

 

Amber: Leah is 5, not 15, and yes, kindergartners need a schedule. If she's falling asleep at school already, then she probably doesn't need to be sleeping at a different house during the week. 

 

Tyler: It's perfectly normal for parents to want their child to have some privacy, and no, they did not sign up for their child to be on a reality show 5 years after the adoption. As far and they and everyone else was concerned, it was a one time deal with 16&Pregnant. Secondly, no, you don't get to dictate anything to Brandon and Teresa about Carly just because you are the birth parent. Yes, I'm sure they will forever be grateful to you and Catelyn, but they are her parents. They are the ones who stay up at night with her when she's sick, they are the ones who provide her food and care and everything else, and they are the ones who deal with her on a daily basis. If they don't want people to recognize her at the mall, then that is their call. Catelynn understands this perfectly because it's not hard to understand. Tyler is just an ass. I can believe that Dawn made the adoption appear more rosy than it ended up being, but at this point, they know the deal, and I've seen nothing to suggest that Brandon and Teresa are unfair to them. 

[missy jo]

I personally believe that people can change, but this show seems to prove that people DON'T change. Amber is exactly the same as she was before she went to prison - selfish, with no impulse control and no sense of boundaries.

 

Catelynn and Tyler - the same but worse. Even if they were duped in some form during the adoption process, they've had time to adjust to the reality by now. They have a huge pro-life bumper sticker on their car, but I don't see them as great ambassadors for either cause.

 

It's scary that Tyler is willing to risk losing total contact with Carly just to be a social media famewhore. And does he actually think he can become the next Scorcese by taking "film" classes at a community college?

 

The worst thing I'm seeing overall is the parental alienation and planting ideas in the children's minds. I think that Bentley cried about going to his Dad's because Maci's turned it into a big drama. He actually used to love spending time there because they did fun outdoor activities instead of laying around on the couch like Maci.

 

This week was a departure from that, but I still believe that Bentley's relationship with his grandparents is a big plus and Maci would be smarter to focus on the positives of that more than whether Ryan is the one doing the heavy lifting.

 

The other example was Leah showing the anxiety over Kristina and Amber's knowing each other. You're not Teen Moms anymore, so stop infecting your children with issues that they would not otherwise have!

[GreatKazu]

I want Ryan's GF 2.0 (no point in learning her name) to really pay attention to how Ryan treats Bentley. Pay attention to how he talks to Maci. That will be you. Don't make the mistake in thinking it'll be different for you. He's showing you right now who he is. Believe him. He's telling you everything you need to know right now.

And screw you Ryan for making me side with Maci. Damn you straight to hell.

Tell me about it. Shit, I hate, HATE how he calls Maci names. I am so disgusted with him each and every time he does that. No matter how whiny Maci is, there is no excuse for his behavior towards her. Bentley is picking up on that. He is watching how his father disrespects his mother. Soon, Bentley will learn that disrespecting Maci is a pretty normal thing to do. Then, it will become other women in his life.

 

I think Maci approached Ryan in a pretty decent manner. It also wasn't the first time either. She has asked him before to chill out with the name-calling and to communicate better. In one ear and out the other.

 

I want to punch Tyler in his mouth so bad. His comment to Carly's parents by looking at the camera and yelling at them, showed how he is acting exactly like Butch! Butch 2.0 is what Tyler has become. As much as Catelyn was making sense about putting Carly's video on-line, she sure makes no sense any other time. Too bad.

 

I am sick of Amber. I am sick of watching her sit on the couch. I am sick of watching her hate for Gary's girlfriend penetrate to Leah. Hearing Leah talk the way she did about Gary's girlfriend being on camera, was a clear example of how adult talk should never happen around children. Ever! Grown up talk will be heard by children no matter how much you think they are not paying attention. I wouldn't even doubt it if Amber has talked to Leah about how much Gary's girlfriend bothers her. Leah likely asks Amber what is bothering her or why is she upset. Amber, being the dumb twit that she is, probably tells Leah exactly what bugs her.

 

Oh gawd! Kailyn!!! Get that bitch off my screen.

 

One thing I really hate about this show is, when they show the cast shopping at these mom-and-pop type stores. I am guessing the Wal-Marts and other big name stores won't allow filming so, the cast is stuck shopping and spending their MTV money at these holes-in-the-wall stores that charge way more for products than the bigger name stores do.

Edited April 8, 2015 by GreatKazu

[woodscommaelle]

 I would love to hear more about what made her be with Butch.

She probably fell in love with him back in his good ole 'bee-boppin' days.

[woodscommaelle]

Amber and her "Boo Boo" talk annoys me. But Leah loves being around her and that's more than Bentley can say about Ryan! I hope she can get her life together and get custody back. Gary, I just don't get the attraction.

I think she called her 'Ooskie' at one point last night.  WTF.

[wrestlesflamingos]

Leah's speech at the dinner table about Kristen was upsetting. Mostly because Leah parrots Amber's mannerisms, the squinty eyes, the feigned shock. We're 11 years away from the kids getting their own show.

[kira28]

 

It's scary that Tyler is willing to risk losing total contact with Carly just to be a social media famewhore. And does he actually think he can become the next Scorcese by taking "film" classes at a community college

This! Tyler is puny little Butch Jr.  He's such an ass. I bet he got Cate pregnant so they could have a new baby to parade around on social media. I hope Brandon and Teresa deny them any contact to Carly after seeing this. I would be totally done if I were them. Carly doesn't need this drama and immaturity in her life.  What is up with these idiots and film school? Wasn't Janelle enrolled in "Film school" at one point? And Kail as well?   Does he not realize that MI is not a place he's going to find employment with his dumb credentials from "film school"? They have had SIX years to do something, to secure stable employment. And have done NOTHING. I realize they finished high school but what about the four or five years since then? His mom should not have to prod  him well you have a new baby on the way better start working on getting a job.. dumbass. I hope this is the last season of TM and they are stuck with no jobs. Cruel I know, but guess what its time to grow up.  Only thing Tyler and Cate are qualified for is to work at the local Mcdonalds for minimum wage. Why wouldn't he attend college for ..I don't know.. a career that is actually in demand in their area?

 

I think Gary needs to limit Amber's time with Leah to weekends. If Leah is falling asleep in class and Gary says Amber stays up all hours of the night (and is probably keeping Leah awake) then he needs to put a stop to that. I don't like Gary. I feel like he uses Kristina. When she was helping Leah with her homework and Gary said well I'm going to let you girls do your thing and I'm going to go relax and watch tv. Hello! Leah is YOUR daughter, why don't YOU help her with her homework? What does Gary need to relax from? Eating? Felt bad for Leah and Kristina that Leah is afraid Amber will see her being friendly with Kristina and get upset. No five year old should have to worry about that! Amber is NOT stable and should not be trusted to care for Leah.  I know Leah loves her mom but geez even the few hours after school visit was terrible. Amber wants to be the fun parent. She promised Leah ice cream (what a stupid thing to do, give your kid a bunch of sugar right before she has to go to bed) then blames it on Gary (Amber should have been keeping track of the time, she was told what time Leah needed to be back) and so Leah is combative with Gary when she arrives home.  and Amber telling Dr. Drew she is going for full custody. He is such a quack, yes don't attend meetings because you might be recognized, yes you should go for full custody,  you have no gainful employment, have not been in any kind of treatment program since prison and meanwhile your daughter is being raised in a stable loving home where she is obviously thriving but yes YOU should be awarded full custody and take her away from all of that.  All because you treat her like a toy and want to be able to play with her whenever you want without someone telling you what to do.

 

No words for Maci and Ryan. I feel sorry for Maci and HATE Ryan for making me feel that way. What a douche.

[Kellyee]

I felt so sad when Leah said her favorite part of school is eating. I looked at Jabba the Hut Gary, and I feel really bad for Leah. I doubt they're serving her salad at home. Poor kid. 

 

I hated when Catelynn tried to justify Carly being known in public by saying that Bentley and the other kids get noticed and harassed all the time, so its no big deal. Its actually really confusing for a small child, who may then grow into a famewhore like Tyler.

[StatisticalOutlier]

 

Do you mean when she was talking to her friend in the bridal store? She actually said, "I'm late sometimes, I get it. But I'm not also telling you that you're a dumb-ass on the phone in front of your son. You can't be 45 minutes late and then call me and tell me that I'm stupid." I think the point she was trying to make it that people run late sometimes and she understands but you probably shouldn't go insulting the person who's waiting on you.

 

Well, it's on Maci if Bentley hears Ryan insult her on the phone.  Knowing he does this, has always done it and shows no sign of stopping, there's no excuse for having Ryan on speaker when Bentley is around. 

 

I'm also finding some significance in her admitting that she's late sometimes.  If you take away Ryan's berating her, which she can prevent Bentley from hearing, she's just as guilty as Ryan.  Ryan seemed to be expecting a call, regardless of what time they'd set for meeting, so I wonder if she's late often enough that this is standard operating procedure.

 

I don't know if she does it all the time or if this one was for the show, but she seemed to be setting everything up for Ryan to fail.  Not a herculean task, obviously, but this didn't have to be the big disaster that it was. 

[gunderda]

Ok officially off the Ryan train - I gave him the benefit of the doubt and then he outright admits that they planned on 1:30 and he was still at his house at 2.

Totally loved how his dad called him out on that.  GO DAD!

 

And then he's 30 min late to meet Maci later.... at least she's used to it and knew to order food before he got there.  Was nice of her to order him a pizza but I don't think he even ate it. 

 

And kudos to Cate for finally having the maturity to tell Tyler and his mom that what he did was wrong and stupid.   I'm actually surprised that tyler didn't get mad at her for saying it was stupid.  I think deep down he knows it was wrong and he was just acting out. 

but WHY feel the need to post it to your 400k fans???? That's just ridiculous.  Cate said they can post to family and friend(?) and that should be enough.  You shouldn't feel the need to satisfy your 'fans'.

 

Every time Amber gets upset it drives me crazy.  This girl has no common sense.  Having leah spend the night on the school night?? Oh HELLLLLLLL no. that girl would have never went to bed.  It was really sad when Leah got upset that Amber might see her on tv with Kristine(Kristina?) and get mad. 

 

Also loved that Amber said that if leah wasn't in school she would FOR SURE be on the book tour with her. Uhhhh highly doubtful Amber lol

 

I kinda liked see Kaitlyn! She seemed kinda different and older than Amber, but I think she's younger right?

[Tatum]

I've made no secret of how I feel about Ryan. I find him to be:

1) Incredibly physically attractive (tall, lean, dark-eyed & dark-haired guys are my thing...and if they happen to be going prematurely gray silver foxes, even better)

2) A huge douche- a one man Summer's Eve convention

I hope Shelby is practicing super safe sex with him. I mean I hope she's taking birth control pills (correctly) or has an IUD AND he's wearing a condom every single time they have sex. 'Cause I think it's obvious that Ryan doesn't want a kid & that kids cramp his spoiled, laying in bed, driving his fast car or bike, motocross, self-absorbed lifestyle.

Have we ever seen Ryan be sweet or loving with anyone? With Maci? With his parents? With Dalis or Shelby or any other girl?

Also, what the heck was hot 20 year old Ryan doing with 16 year old Maci? Look, I definitely don't think 4 years is a big age difference in relationships. But someone 29 probably has something more in common with someone who is 25 than a 20 year old working high school grad has in common with 16 year old high school student Maci. Something tells me 20 year old Ryan, hot as he was, couldn't find 20 year old women who would put up with his crap, so he went after the younger Maci.

 

I agree with all of this. I have always found Ryan extremely attractive, even if that's pretty much all you can say about him that is nice. I am sure whatever girl he is dating probably is on hormonal birth control- it wouldn't surprise me if Ryan insisted on watching while she took it. He definitely does not seem like he wants any more kids any time soon.

 

Ryan has a had a few nice moments with Bentley sprinkled throughout the years, but I've never seen him do anything particularly sweet within a romantic relationship. He did jump on Maci that one season for upsetting Dalis (when Maci wrote on twitter that it's much easier to co-parent when you're still with your partner, or something to that effect) but I took it more as, when Dalis gets upset, she bitches to me about it, and I don't want to listen to it, vs an honest concern for Dalis's feelings. Ryan seems like he just wants to do whatever he wants to do, and doesn't want to hear any kind of criticism, even if it's meant to help.

 

I'm going to hell for this, but I did wonder how 16 year old Maci landed Ryan in the first place (I mean, I'd say lookswise, he's pretty far out of her league). Sure, he's an ass, but we say that watching a 25 year old man who lives at home , is marginally employed, is terrible to his ex, and stomps off in a huff whenever he's called out for bad behavior. A teenage girl seeing Ryan when he was 18-20 isn't going to have that benefit of hindsight.

[SlothLoveChunk]

I second the thought of how sad I felt when Leah said eating was the best part of school and Gary responded with "I like to eat too".  With Gary and Amber's genes and no model for healthy eating I think this very cute 5 year old will soon become an overweight, unhealthy pre-teen.  Amber just KILLS me too with her fiegned shock.  She's so dramatic over the tiniest thing and her modus operandi whenever she hears anything she doesn't like (no matter how reasonable it is) is to throw her hands up in the air, make a face like you just stabbed her, and stare at the camera like "can you BELIEVE this??".  It was comical for a while and now it's just plain annoying.

 

And Amber, Gary asking for Leah to have a schedule during the weeknights and be home by 7 is not unreasonable.  In fact, it's 100% reasonable.  Don't make him out to be the bad guy because you promised Leah ice cream without even bothering to see what time it was.

 

Catelynn was an incredible voice of reason this episode.  Tyler was his usual immature, controlling self.  Catelynn may not be a rocket scientist but I swear if you took her away from Tyler, pumped up her self esteem 20%, and gave her a vocational skill she'd make an excellent life for herself and Nova.  Too bad that will never happen.

 

Once again, Ryan proves that he sucks as a son, dad, and person.  I *somewhat* understood him thinking that Maci would call when she got there, even though it wasn't discussed that she would.  But when he didn't hear from her by 1:40, why in he world didn't he call her- or hell- just show up where he was supposed to meet her?  Because he's lazy and selfish and stupid. If I were Maci I would have called and not sat in the car for 40 minutes, but she's still 100% not to blame for that situation.  I think the way she handled trying to meet him at the restaurant and ask for suggestions to communicate better was very adult of her, and of course Ryan looked like he couldn't have cared less about being there or interacting with the mother of his child.  I feel sorry for Bentley.

 

Bring on the Farrah!  I need my weekly dose of crazy.

[wrestlesflamingos]

I have a feeling Farrah is going to be one 10 minute segment in the finale. Part of me believes Farrah's lawyer found a way to insist she appears on the show.

[mla40]

Set visitation. They all need it, period. Apparently they all love the drama they can create with the other parent, it's the only reason I can think of as to why they haven't figured this shit out yet.

BrandonandTeresa must have really put the smack down on Tyler because his demeanor did a 180 after their talk. Smug little fucker. I'm glad that because of all this we did get to see some sensibility from Catelyn, now she just needs to be more assertive and shut him down when he starts in. The camera guy didn't seem all to pleased when he was ordered to help with the crib, but when you're 'Tyler's' crew I guess you do as he says. I'm sure the guy would have helped regardless, just Tyler's demeanor is so smug and entitled.

I was hoping for an Amber vs Kail smack down in that bus. Both girls with huge ego's and major anger issues...That would have been reality gold. I would put my money on Amber, she's used to knocking around Jabba the Hut, Kail is used to knocking around an Ewok.

Ryan hot Ryan, take that wad of chew out of your mouth. It's disgusting. Maxi seriously needs to teach Bentley that she is the parent and he needs to listen to her because she is in charge, not because daddy will be mad at me if you make me late because you don't want to listen to me so it's your fault little boy when daddy is mad at me.

These people all need to grow the fuck up.

[CourtneyCourt]

I forgot to add another thing that bothers me about Catelynn and Tyler. Why does Catelynn always drive him? You'd think he would be driving her to doctor appointments when they both go. Does he not have a license? My husband always drives me when we are together. They aren't even taking turns here, it's always Catelynn driving Tyler, just strikes me as odd. Maybe I'm weird...

[wrestlesflamingos]

Cate drives because Tyler wants to talk to the camera. He doesn't have any license issues that have been published and his mother told him to stop buying cars, suggesting he has several.

[rachel1496]

I've seen quite a few statements like this, and I'm just curious - what would Dawn's motivation be? I'm being totally serious here, not snarky or argumentative. I don't know much about adoption, and I was just wondering what she would gain from presenting it this way.

 

Private adoptions are huge money makers.  Between agencies, lawyers, etc; it's a billion dollar industry.  Dawn's clients were Brandon and Teresa, not Catelynn and Tyler and her job was to find them a baby.  C&T were a means to an end.  I still can't watch their 16&P episode without wanting to reach through the TV and shake them both every time they buy her lines about open adoption.  It's true that adoptions can be as open as she portrayed and sometimes they are.  We never saw any indication that B&T wanted that though, so there was no reason to let them think that's what they were getting except for the fact that it helped push Catelynn and Tyler towards placing Carly.

 

If I recall, it was discussed on TWOP that Bethany Christian (the adoption agency Catelynn used) has frequently come under fire in other cases where they were less than honest/forthcoming with the bio parents about the rules of open adoption, and also making sure the bio moms (and dads) understand their rights. Maybe I dreamt that though.

 

They have a terrible reputation and from what I can tell it's well earned.  I've heard complaints from adoptive parents who later found out that the unlimited post-placement counseling they say they provide (and that the adoptive parents essentially pay for) is non-existent for birth parents.  Once the cheque has been cashed they're on their own.  We saw it happen with Tyler.  When he was having issues after Carly's birth he wasn't given counseling, he was given a phone call with a fellow birth father.  Catelynn got the birth mother's retreat but I don't think that was provided by or paid for by Bethany, I'm pretty sure it was an outside organization.

Tyler frustrates me because I think he's starting to realize how much they were both misled during the process and he's pissed but he's pissed at the wrong people.  Brandon and Teresa never promised him anything and they never lied about what they were comfortable with.  Dawn was the one who led them to believe that the initial agreement was just a starting point and things could open up from there, knowing they probably never would.  Taking out his anger on B&T is just stupid.  It's going to get him cut out of Carly's life for good and he still won't understand why, he'll just continue to talk about how they chose the wrong parents.   If C&T ever split up I wouldn't be surprised if B&T decide to continue contact with her and not Tyler.

[lezlers]

I want to make a drinking game where you have to drink every time someone says the word "prison."  It was said approximately 851 times during this episode alone. 

 

I can't stand Tyler, he's such a little punk.  Cate just sitting there chewing off her nails as he did something that could've resulted in them never seeing their biological daughter again was heartbreaking.  I honestly believe it's only a matter of time before he hits her.  A good friend of mine adopted her son in an open adoption.  Apparently the birth mother was emailing my friend too often wanting updates (for a while there it was multiple times per week soon after the birth) so she just cut off all contact, just like that.  I remember being surprised that she was allowed to do that.  It really is on the whim of the adoptive parent so Tyler better watch it.

 

And Ryan is a total douchebag.  I don't understand everyone saying how good looking he is, either.  I mean, he's not ugly but he's not a god or anything.  He's certainly not good looking enough to make up for his general douchiness.  I also don't think Maci's current boyfriend is BAD looking like everyone says.  If he'd shave that damn caveman beard he'd probably be handsome.  He's definitely an improvement over Kyle.  

 

Oh yay, next episode we get to see more fat shaming of Catelynn.  I can't WAIT.  Sigh. 

Edited April 8, 2015 by lezlers

[Tatum]

 

Tyler frustrates me because I think he's starting to realize how much they were both misled during the process and he's pissed but he's pissed at the wrong people.  Brandon and Teresa never promised him anything and they never lied about what they were comfortable with.

 

Yeah, I would be interested to know what was discussed between Tyler/Catelynn and Brandon/Teresa. If Dawn made a bunch of promises to the kids on behalf of Brandon and Teresa, I would definitely agree that Dawn was like, criminally wrong. From the reviews this organization gets, I can believe this is possibly true. A lot of birth mothers say they were lied to regarding their rights after the adoption was final. But, if Brandon and Teresa directly made promises to T/C, I would say they have moral obligations to fulfill them, even if they aren't legally obligated to do so. (Obviously, we aren't privy to all conversations between the foursome and both Tyler and Cate also have obligations to not disregard any restrictions B/T impose, such as publishing pictures of Carly online).

 

 

I don't understand everyone saying how good looking he is, either.  I mean, he's not ugly but he's not a god or anything.

 I feel so dirty, I am one of the one of the ones who finds him really attractive. Some days he looks better than others. He could possibly be the guy that loses his hair in his late 20s/early 30s though- that will probably kill any attraction I'd have because I don't think he could pull off the balding look well. But, different strokes for different folks. Farrah's ex was pretty good looking but most of the dads from 16 and pregnant are seriously fug. Ryan definitely stands out to me.

[rachel1496]

Yeah, I would be interested to know what was discussed between Tyler/Catelynn and Brandon/Teresa. If Dawn made a bunch of promises to the kids on behalf of Brandon and Teresa, I would definitely agree that Dawn was like, criminally wrong. From the reviews this organization gets, I can believe this is possibly true. A lot of birth mothers say they were lied to regarding their rights after the adoption was final. But, if Brandon and Teresa directly made promises to T/C, I would say they have moral obligations to fulfill them, even if they aren't legally obligated to do so. (Obviously, we aren't privy to all conversations between the foursome and both Tyler and Cate also have obligations to not disregard any restrictions B/T impose, such as publishing pictures of Carly online).

I'd have to go back and watch but in one of the very early TM episodes they did say what was in the contract and I'm pretty sure it was something along the lines of a yearly visit, 2 or 3 letters and pictures and they could send gifts through the agency so I'm guessing that was what B&T wanted.  The sad part is B&T do seem like really good adoptive parents and they're going above and beyond to make it work and keep the adoption as open as they initially agreed to.  C&T have pushed all kinds of boundaries and every time they just remind them of the rules and ask them to respect Carly's privacy but one of these days Tyler is going to push too far.